Should You Let Others Say Grace At Your Dinner Table?

From the advice column:

After all, as atheists you are voluntarily hosting Christmas dinner, which is, after all, a religious holiday.

The reason for the dinner is irrelevant. And Christmas is not a religious holiday, especially among Atheists.

Other than getting it wrong about Christmas being solely a religious holiday, I thought she got it right. And kudos to the religious family for getting it right first:

Before we ate, Brian’s mother politely informed us that their tradition is to say grace before eating formal meals

The correct thing to do is to politely say “oh now don’t be silly; now let’s all eat and have a good time”. 🙂

I think Robin hit it dead on. The person at the head of the table could make a warm toast to family and friends (or whatever), then drink and dig in.

Waiting a few seconds while the Christians pray is a reasonable accommodation for hosts to make to their guests. Not using their prayer to evangelize is a reasonable accommodation for guests to make to their hosts.

In saying that, I presume that the prayer is something that the Christian guests will do together but not demand that the atheist hosts will be asked to participate in — in other words, I assume this is not some kind of a power play between the families. If it is a power play, then the host’s wishes should prevail — it is their house, after all.

Also, the girlfriend should recall the manner in which the family prayed — many families say grace by holding hands in a circle around the table. That requires the atheist to participate in the prayer. So if that’s what’s going to happen, then a word in advance is necessary to see if the prayer can be done without the hand-holding.

They could consider making a secular pre-meal statement. “It’s great to have you all here today, thank you for the food, enjoy your meal, etc.”

Maybe the atheist should say “Do you mind if I say Grace?” and I’m sure they’ll say “Yes.”

At that point, the Atheist says the single word, “Grace” and starts eating.

I would just carry on as normal. To be honest they would have to be fairly arrogant people to suggest saying grace when sitting at someone else’s dinner table. But if something is said just explain that “we don’t say grace, We thank the person who cooked it”.

Other than the remark about having to acknowledge that Christmas is a Christian holiday, I thought the advice was pretty good: it makes your position clear up front, while still offering the option to everyone to either participate in saying grace or not.

Alternatively, you could just carry on as usual, which should also make your position clear, just less explicitly. If they ask if it’s OK if they said grace anyway (which might make them a little uncomfortable), you can still offer the same proposal.

I’m assuming they won’t ask their hosts to say grace, which would be rather rude, but if they do, you could just say, “No, we don’t say grace, but you can if you want to”.

I’d also assume that in those cases they’d have a more silent prayer, which is what most Christians I’ve known were perfectly happy to do, but I don’t know what is customary for this particular family.

I personally wouldn’t deny them the right for a silent prayer, and would be happy to pause for a little. After all, I believe in freedom of religion as well as freedom from religion. If I feel that the prayer sounds more like proselytizing, however, I can always comment about it.

Amy got it wrong. Not only is Christmas not a religious holiday, but I don’t think a guest’s religious preferences are something that need to be accommodated in my home, especially when they can easily pray silently in their heads. No one is preventing them from praying. I will accommodate a vegetarian because if I don’t, they cannot eat the meal I’ve prepared. But not praying publicly isn’t impacting anyone’s ability to do so on their own.

I think the toast or host announcing a “thanks for coming” type thing to start the meal is appropriate and should be done whenever you begin a hosted meal. You thank the guests for coming, for any contributions, explain dishes that need explanation, etc., and you signal the start of the meal. That’s just common hosting courtesy.

We try to make reasonable accommodation for dinner guests. Before the meal we simply say, “We don’t say grace, but you’re welcome to if you wish.” We don’t participate, but we sit quietly until they’re finished.

If I have guests over I want them to feel comfortable, and if they feel that grace is important they’ll be less comfortable if they can’t perform their little ritual. It doesn’t cost us anything except sitting politely for a few moments and trying not to giggle.

I am a bit surprised at the level of “my home, my rules,” going on here. I expect that when I’m in the home of friends who say grace, that I’m not expected to participate, and not belittled or made to feel bad if I don’t. The inconvenience of waiting a minute while people say grace at the start of a meal is trivial, especially at a gathering where the point is to bring two groups of people together for the enjoyment of each other’s company. Atheists who celebrate Christmas are likely to view it as more than just a day for getting loot, but as a time of celebrating some of the more noble aspects of humanity: generosity, good will, etc. Not much good will involved in saying, “F-you Christian idiots and your stupid grace-saying.”

My advice: discuss this in advance with both families (separately), so that it doesn’t become an uncomfortable or conflict-laden scene at the dinner table. The reasonable thing seems to be to plan on the Christians saying grace, but without the participation of the non-Christians. Make sure the Christians know the atheists won’t be involved, and maybe ask the Christians to keep it simple and to the point, so the atheists aren’t staring at each other and their food for 10 minutes, listening to a sermon. Make sure the atheists know it’s going to happen, and ask them to be respectful. Then this awkward moment passes quickly and without trouble, and the two families can get down to the real business at hand: getting to know each other, supporting the two people at the center of this (the son and daughter that are a couple), and eating some yummy food.

For trivialities like this, I’m a go-along get-along kind of guy.

Besides, anything to curb, or postpone, my gluttonous tendencies. 🙂

If they asked (presuming it wasn’t a powerplay or an excuse to preach to the sinners) I’d say “go ahead” and I’d sit quietly. I don’t hold hands…ever. Oh, and also I don’t want it to be one of those long drawn out prayers.

My wife, who is a Xian, doesn’t go in for the pre-meal mumbling, either.

What I do when entertaining the Christian in-laws is say something like, “Let us take a moment of silence to contemplate where our food has come from” it’s just a nice alternative and lets them thank their god.

WARNING: This is a large cause for why my son and I are vegetarians. 😉

The answers here seem to vary based on assumptions about the Christians’ motives for offering the prayer. Such reactions are more revealing about the atheists making them than the Christians responding to them, because it shows what motives we attribute to the religious in the absence of any other evidence.

In a vacuum, we can’t really know if the prayer is offered to evangelize or if it’s a “we have to do this but you don’t” sort of thing. One attitude deserves a firm but polite response, and the other deserves respectful silence while they do their thing. Bear in mind, we’re talking about dinner guests in your home — you’ve invited them over for a reason and it’s presumably not to pick fights about their religion.

I would say the proper thing to do would be to have a short prepared speech to say just before you eat. Thank both sets of parents for coming and come up with some warm and fuzzy quote about family… “When it’s this cold outside, it’s the warmth around this table…”

Then eat.

So turn that awkward moment into a toast that can be enjoyed by everyone in attendance.

If his parents then try to start praying out loud, I’d say it’s fair to say there was already a toast for the group but they are more than welcome to say their own silent prayer while the rest of you eat.

I would certainly not say grace at my own home, unless it is a really extraordinary occasion. Like I am saying grace to the FSM, Odin, or something similar.

My religious brother and his religious girlfriend come to my house for dinner on Thanksgiving and Christmas. My mother, the family peacekeeper, always suggests that we say grace, even though she never had us do so when we were kids. She’s only trying to accommodate my brother and his girlfriend. So he recites a prayer that he memorized from his grandfather and then adds a couple of sentences about whatever is the occasion. Nothing heavy or proselytizing. Everyone puts their hands in their laps and they bow their heads. Everyone except myself and my daughter, who is 23. She and I glance at each other and study the down-turned faces around the table, kind of like psychologists or anthropologists. It’s all over in a few seconds. No skin off my nose nor anyone else’s. If I’m feeling expansive, I’ll give a brief but eloquent toast about human warmth, companionship, generosity and gratitude. The rest of the evening’s conversation is completely secular and very pleasant. No big frikking deal. Since I don’t believe there’s any magic in the prayer, I don’t care one way or the other.

@Stanley, my husband does the same thing in our house, especially when my 4yo daughter has just returned from her religious grandparents’ house! Actually, I think he’s even done it when my folks have been here, and my mom did the cooking. She blushed.

I’ve only recently come out to my parents (!), so it’s amazing to me how well they seem to be taking it so far.

I think Amy’s solution (politely letting the other family know that the host family does not say grace, but the guest family is welcome to if they would like to) is spot on. If the guests need to thank their invisible man in the sky before eating in order to be comfortable during the meal, and the host is aware of this peculiarity, then why shouldn’t a considerate host accommodate the guests?

of course, if they get all preachy with the grace, then it goes without saying that the offer wouldn’t be repeated….

I recommend the girl speak with her family and let them know the visiting familiy is religious and that they like to say grace. I doubt anybody would mind!
Then, when the family comes over for dinner, invite the eldest member to say grace. It’s respectful, non-intrusive to the atheists at the table, and will make the new family feel welcomed! Harmony. Ahhhhh. 🙂

I think that if the writer was openly atheist, then it wouldn’t be an issue.

She could be very clear by putting up a sign saying “No God Zone”. Maybe have one of those highway signs with a red bar crossing(dare I say) it.

So Amy’s position is that you should always accommodate the religious preference of Christians at the table regardless of whether they are the hosts or the guests?

How far does that accommodation stretch, and why does it have to be one sided? Why is accommodation for the atheist side limited to not being required to participate?

Just as many Christians would be offended by not being allowed to verbally say grace, many atheists are equally offended by having to listen to others say grace.

We seem to be operating under the false dichotomy that there are only two possible guest types: Christian or atheist and atheist hosts should allow Christian guests to perform their rituals.

How would those very Christians feel about having a Muslim, Buddhist, or Wiccan prayer said before the meal? Accommodation can’t be limited to just accommodating one faith.

For practical purposes, you can’t honor the rituals of every member of a party; you could end up sitting through a dozen different prayers and rituals. That’s why you just go with what the hosts do. This extends to non religious rituals and practices as well. Maybe you serve stuffing and potatoes with turkey, but maybe I never make potatoes when I already have stuffing. Maybe you make thick gravy while I make thin gravy. It’s the host’s shindig; let them run it their way. Say your prayers in silence like you would at McDonald’s.

Nobody’s advocating denying Christian guests the right to practice their faith, but if those guests don’t say grace verbally every time they go to a public banquet hall or McDonald’s, it’s not a requirement for practicing their faith, and they should not expect to practice their ritual in a host’s house.

Hey if you are the host, it’s your home and you should be free to engage in whatever rituals you want to so long as you don’t expect all the guests to participate unless you expressly made it clear ahead of time that you do so.

But for guests, what rituals that a guest might want to perform are out of bounds? What if I believe in setting an extra place at the table with a fully filled plate for my unseen god? What if my faith’s custom is to throw one tenth of my food to the floor in deference to the god that provided it? By symbolically returning my nourishment to the earth that provided it, I honor my god. Bottom line: if it’s not your house, it’s not your dinner party.

I think we might be confusing accommodation with appeasement.

I think saying the prayer silently in their heads would be uncomfortable, and create an unnecessary division. Christians are instructed to pray with their mouths (with words) anyway. Saying to a Christian that to thank god for something that people do is rude is in fact rude in itself, because Christians believe that god is responsible for making everything possible. I realize this is after the fact but I would imagine, as it IS a Christian Holiday celebrating CHRIST’s birth, it would probably be prudent to ask the people who would not normally say grace to say grace anyway. You are after all trying to be hospitable.