Charles Barkley Calls Out “Fake Christians”

Wait.

What?

When Barkley calls people on their hatred and points out that it’s antithetical to one of the central teachings of their religion — and in fairly mild language, at that — suddenly he’s the one that’s hateful?

These people need to re-read the “mote in your brother’s eye, beam in your own” bit again. (And they should also perhaps be a wee bit more careful about making their opponents’ arguments for them.)

My head hurts. I need to go lie down now.

Perhaps not as eloquent as some other “representative” atheists I could mention. I agree with what he is saying though.

What’s up with the menu of seemingly unrelated video clips at that end of this? I see women with excessively large breasts and body builders. LOL

They act like their Christians. And they’re not forgiving at all. [emphasis added)

Okay, who wrote the transcript? I can’t help but to read that as, “They act like [the] Christians [they own/who own them].” I always knew they didn’t mind slavery…

Wait.

What?

When Barkley calls people on their hatred and points out that it’s antithetical to one of the central teachings of their religion — and in fairly mild language, at that — suddenly he’s the one that’s hateful?

These people need to re-read the “mote in your brother’s eye, beam in your own” bit again. (And they should also perhaps be a wee bit more careful about making their opponents’ arguments for them.)

Hey, now – are you trying to halve the double-standard? I mean, they readily, as you point out, balance their venemous overreaction by proving their opposition correct. No harm, no foul. 😉

Chuck is right on. You find any bigger hypocrites than people who make it their business to dictate your personal choices. Christians, like any fundamentalists, never seem to see their own faults.

Sounds like the response from the commission pretty well illustrates Barkley’s point.

While I agree with the general sentiment of Barkley, I disagree with the statement that they are fake Christians. I think that’s too similar to how some fundamentalists would say Catholics and liberals are not real Christians. The definition of “Christian” is not “people who are good”, nor is it “people who are bad”. Being a Christian does not guarantee that you are forgiving. “Fake” is not the right word to describe them. “Hypocritical” and “hateful” are more on target.

WOLF BLITZER: But you can’t lump all these conservatives as being fake.

Why not? They have no problem lumping everybody else into categories.

“We respect Barkley as an expert on basketball, but he is obviously not an expert on Christian moral theology.”

Oh – and how many Christians are such experts?

As to the issue of demarcation (“fake” vs “true” Christians), I can only conclude that a Christian is one who believes that Jesus lived and was both the “Son of God” and the Messiah prophesied in the OT. The condition of being a Christian is not determined by one’s actions or proclamations, but by one’s beliefs. You might be a “bad” Christian in the context of the value system commonly associated with Christianity, but that does not alter the fact that you are a Christian. If you don’t actually believe that Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah, then you are not a Christian, no matter how badly you might wish to be.

They [conservatives] have no problem lumping everybody else into categories.

Tu quoque.

J. Myers said,

“We respect Barkley as an expert on basketball, but he is obviously not an expert on Christian moral theology.”

You know what they say:

A theologian is like a blind person in a dark room searching for a black cat which isn’t there… and finding it!
-(Anonymous?)

Well, that settles it. Whatever state I’m living in in 2014, I’m voting for the Round Mound of Rebound.

J Myers

I’ve met several people who believe they fit the criteria to qualify as an expert on Christian moral theology. For the most part, you have to be absolutely sure that the other person is going to burn in hell because of their (perceived) imperfections. The next step is to inform them of this “fact.” If they tell you to f-off, then your smugness and sense of superiority assures your qualification as an expert.

Many have asked what does it mean to be a Christian, and an expert on Christian moral theology. Being a Christian, means heeding Christ’s words. Most especially, this means obeying the two most important commandments of God: to worship God, with no other gods before Him, and to love your neighbor as yourself, doing unto your neighbors as you would have them do unto yourselves. “Forgiveness” follows, given that we should forgive every wrong done to us, whether great or small. Christians therefore believe in God, and in Jesus Christ, and in their infinite love and mercy toward us all. Every commandment of God, you see, is issued out of love. God loves us all and He wants us to be happy, and loving to one another. “Christian moral theology” means the morality we gain from Christianity as a religion. Part of this entails seeing that what God defines as sin, is morally wrong. God is absolutely correct, even though it is undoubtedly true that every one of us will sin. We must try to trust in God, and heed Christ’s words to be saved. Jesus Christ is our savior, and we all can have a personal relationship to Him. Charles Barkley said he was “pro-gay marriage” and “pro-choice”. The Bible explicitly states that homosexuality is wrong. Homosexual marriage, or “relations” is explicitly wrong and could have been punished with death. Life begins at conception, so abortion is certainly “murder”, and nothing short of this; but rather more heinous given the innocence of the unborn, and the violation of the sanctity of the womb, wherein the child is nourished and safe. Where we are not to act as judges of our neighbors, is not ever that we shouldn’t reprove them for their immoral actions. Only the Lord can judge, but we can encourage and outright implore our neighbors to obey the Lord “as we would do”. If we are being hypocritical, a big issue may be our reluctance or lethargy to go out of our way to help others come to God. Charity, forgiveness, peace, and respectfulness towards others, are all components of Christian moral theology. Someone might say “Only God knows why a homosexual is a homosexual,” as to the examples of homosexuals who believe they really “are that way”, rather than simply choosing one thing or another. The homosexual is a child of God, who should be shown help and acceptance. If a homosexual feels he can’t shake being so, he simply needs to build a relationship with God and ask God to forgive “tendencies” or “interests”. Sex itself is bound for marriage alone, so a homosexual never should have any sexual relations. If a homosexual is in need of my help, compassion, acceptance, or understanding, I’d be nonjudgmental yet warning and encouraging that the homosexual’s judgment is subordinate to that of the Lord, in whom the homosexual should place more trust. All of us have problems, and are unique. It is very difficult for us as men to advise our neighbors, but religion is a central area in which we have a duty to counsel the doubtful, teach the ignorant, and admonish sinners in such a way as to both welcome and warn.
Abortion is practically an insane phenomenon today. Any expectant mother, you see, at any stage of her pregnancy, knows she is carrying “a child”, who will die if she doesn’t carry him or her and give birth. Anyone’s decision to get an abortion therefore is necessarily a decision to kill the offspring. There is no question about the lack of compassion or consideration for the unborn child, besides any considerations about what God says about this. For a woman to actually want to kill her offspring is a case where she is knowingly going against nature and that new life, sacrificing love and that new life because she is pressured enough by factors in her life to consider this. I think we have an obligation to protect unborn children, and women from ever wanting to get an abortion. This is a terrible decision.

Being a Christian, means heeding Christ’s words.

No, it doesn’t – you might argue that being a “good” Christian means that you heed (what you believe to be) Christ’s instructions, but to simply be a Christian, you need only believe as I described above (how could it be otherwise?). You’ve outlined a value system (some of which I agree with, some of which I find appalling) which many would consider representatively Christian. And yet, there are Christians who would not agree with every value you endorse. Are they not “true” Christians? Why not?

Ed said: “Sex itself is bound for marriage alone, so a homosexual never should have any sexual relations. If a homosexual is in need of my help, compassion, acceptance, or understanding, I’d be nonjudgmental yet warning and encouraging that the homosexual’s judgment is subordinate to that of the Lord, in whom the homosexual should place more trust. “

How would you, as a Christian, feel if a Jewish person told you that you really shouldn’t be worshipping Jesus because he isn’t the real Messiah and your judgement is subordinate to the REAL God, in whom you should place more trust (rather than Jesus) ?

See the ‘problem’ with what you suggested?

Just as it would be incredibly disrespectful (and rather arrogant) for a Jewish person to tell a gentile that he/she ‘should’ only eat kosher foods, it’s incredibly disrespectful for a Christian to tell non-Christians to follow Christian rules/commandments. (when you mentioned Christians’ relationship to their ‘neighbors’, I assumed you meant whether those neighbors are Christian or not. If I was mistaken, my apologies)

Also, in this 21st century, same-sex couples do get MARRIED (here in Canada and many other countries). Not the ‘separate-but-equal’ civil unions, but marriage.

So, I guess the old ‘celibacy only’ thing for homosexuals is moot 🙂

Siamang–

If atheists, gays, and abortionists are accepting Charles Barkley as their spokeperson, there is no hope for your cause.

First, marriage is a religious institution–all caps or not. But, here is my PERSONAL take on it. If the state were to say, “Fine. Gay people can get married,” I wouldn’t care. Why? Because I do not believe the government can actually marry a person. Marriage is religious, not political. If the CHURCH sanctioned it, I’d have a problem. But, currently, I support the government’s stance on the issue. If that stance changes, I will not support it, but I will not attempt to hold the government to my standard of living either. Because of the current interpretation of church and state, I’d really have no say. I can write a letter to my government representatives and exercise my right to vote for someone who supports my religious view. But, I’m not going to go crazy over it. But, you better believe if churches started marrying gay people left and right, they’d be using God’s name in vain by attaching it to something he doesn’t support.

But, if you’d like practical, non-religious reasons for not allowing it, there are issues of gender identity that need to be considered, sexual dysfunction that stems from homosexual activity, greater risk of loss of a parent (in a male homosexual relationship), and pyschosocial difficulties that are prevalent in homosexual relationships to an alarming degree. Divorce would be an issue. Not the frequency, but how it would be handled. The adoption process would need to be retooled. It would financially damage the economy if it were done enmass. (However, this is the same excuse that was used to prolong slavery, so I will concede that this is NOT the best point.) It would also force companies that are owned and run by those who disagree with the lifestyle to provide benefits to homosexual couples.

Now, here is where you will tell me that my non-religious considerations are not enough. But, as someone who has studied history, societal construction, psychology, and the economy ad nauseum, I assure you that when the government says, “No gay marriage,” it is not doing so for wholly Christian reasons. In fact, I think making it that simple is just giving the government a scapegoat, rather than having to explain to society the bad news that something like what they’re asking for would take nearly 100 years to effectively implement without crippling the country that allows it. Sure, you can GET married, but expect the cost of living to skyrocket IMMEDIATELY and we will have to pay you less.

Trust me, gay marriage will become a reality. The government is making moves to assure that it will, so they are certainly not on my side.

C.E. Moore said,

First, marriage is a RELIGIOUS institution.

And again, crapspackle! It’s a HUMAN institution, it’s a CULTURAL institution, one that religion has hijacked as they try to do with everything important. Sure, there is usually a religious official at the wedding and that’s the end of it. What does the couple do before the wedding? They get a license from the government. When the couple decides to get divorced, where do they go? A government office to file, then the decision is made by a government official. If there are questions over the children, also decided by the government. If one person in a marriage dies without a will, the government decides who inherits.

Marriage, a permanent bond with the person you love, is a human birthright for everyone lucky enough to make it work. Religion needs to back off and quit trying to co-opt what isn’t theirs.

Forgive me if i’m more concerned with the fact millions babies have been killed over the emotional well-being of women who made a mistake and want to finish college but a baby will ruin their plans.

How dare you characterize every woman who has an abortion as a moral lightweight only concerned with her personal convenience? I’m sure pregnant rape victims will appreciate that, you jackass. And like the other guy above, your obsession with other people’s wombs is unhealthy. Get over it. Get your own damn womb if it’s so freaking important to you (and you don’t already have one), but leave everyone else’s ALONE, jerk.

But, if you’d like practical, non-religious reasons for not allowing it, there are issues of gender identity that need to be considered, sexual dysfunction that stems from homosexual activity, greater risk of loss of a parent (in a male homosexual relationship), and pyschosocial difficulties that are prevalent in homosexual relationships to an alarming degree.

So, gays are also like little children or developmentally-disabled people who shouldn’t be allowed to make their own decisions? So good of you to take up that burden for them. I’m sure they’ll be grateful.

I assure you that when the government says, “No gay marriage,” it is not doing so for wholly Christian reasons.

Ok, so you aren’t just bullshitting us, you are bullshitting yourself. It’s a bunch of powerful people, right wing christian people, abusing their power, and they are SO not doing it for anyone else’s good. How naive do you think we are? How naive are you?

If marriage is an entirely religious institution:

1) It has no business being regulated by law.
2) The government cannot give benefits to married couples.
3) If a religion allowed it, then there’s no reason to deny them permission to marry any couple.

I would prefer that stance. Some of the happiest (and most devoted) couples I know aren’t married. They also have sex and have a kid.

I’ve also known kids born to (through artificial insemination) or adopted by gay parents, and their only tendency is to be less religious. Could that be what you’re trying to prevent?

Claire,

First, marriage IS a religious institution that has societal implications. It is always surrounded by ritual and religious practice, whether one acknowledges that fact or not. It is inherently religious in nature.

You have railed against my points but you have not said a thing of substance. I was asked for considerations, non-religious ones, and I gave them. You told me to get a womb. It seems anyone can comment on Christianity, but you can only comment on abortion if you have a vagina and a womb. Unless, of course, you’re a man who AGREES with abortion. Then you can talk all you want. Well, so long as we’re being sexist, there are a million and one things women need to shut their traps on then. It’s a human issue lady. They’re killing baby humans. And, no, not every woman who has an abortion does so for selfish reasons. Just a majority of them, statistically speaking. And I know a number of people who are either victims of rape or the product of rape. Some made the decision to have an abortion. Though I disagree with that, I am still compassionate. But, obviously, those who are the product of rape and were allowed to live and have a unique disposition about the matter. Who are YOU to tell them they have no right to life? What makes you any more valuable than another human life?

Finally, while there are plenty of people in government who are Christians, there are a great number of them who are not who are pushing for gay marriage. Even more, there are Christians who are violating their own beliefs and pushing for it, also. If this were not an issue, it would not constantly be before the House of Reps and the Senate. But it is, A LOT. And gays have made great strides in local, state, and national government to have their agenda met. So, you can tell me I’m bullshitting myself because they haven’t gotten everything they want. But, I bullshit you not that this country is headed towards the legalization of gay marriage within the next 50 years.

C.E. Moore said,

So, you can tell me I’m bullshitting myself because they haven’t gotten everything they want.

Did you ever read what I wrote? Your bullshit involved WHY the people in power are fighting it, that it’s somehow for gay people’s own good and everyone’s good. Yeah, right….

So what you are saying is that by hating Christians you show love for women and gays!