Tragedy at Lifest

YOu know what, i Was there, and everything was set up as it always was. And you can not tell me that this didnt happen for a reason. There were so many people that went throught the ride safely, so why this person, why this time? there is no coincidences here. its all God. For some reason he called her home, and we may never know why. But you know, of course followers of Christ are going to say that she was Called home and this happened for a reason. WE have hope. I know that one day i will see Liz again. The Question is when i will, but i know i will. YOu know what, you have to ask yourself a question, “What if God has a plan for LIz’s death. What if he is using her death to get your attention? to show you that Death can happen at any moment, and that you better know your maker before you go before him.” and you know, If you you looked at all the people there at lifest after this tragic event occured, anyone of them would tell you that they are sad, but it isnt a sadness with out hope, but a sadness with hope and longing… thats all id like to say mr. analytical guy.

Wow i mean i guess i never really looked at it that way, i mean ur right. whenever a freak accident or occurance happens Christians always come up with the craziest ideas of how ITS ALL IN THE PLAN.

But hey i just had to comment a few things,
1st, how is it Ironic that this girl died at a christian music festival? What the fuck makes it ironic, are christians not supose to die? is this to lead readers onto believe there is no God, that he cant possibly exist because a 16 year old girl plunges to the ground and dies? that sound of her flesh hitting the dirt, the screams, and the pain of seeing her friends cry out to God “why did u do this!” yes i was there. though u must understand that everyone there were not all “christians”.

2nd, i need to definately comment on your opinion about how christians always use God as a scape goat for everything that happens. i mean after the fact of the event, when everybody was in prayer, i walked around the lifest grounds fighting in my head with all the thoughts of pain that everybody is enduring. I mean if God really exists then WHY WOULD HE ALLOW THIS 16 YEAR OLD GIRL TO DIE, i mean it angered me to hear “its all part of the plan” or “We all get called home somtime”. but hey im just a 16 yr old dude, i dont have the cognative capacity for that. Then in all the confusion i realized that these ppl had somthing, they had compassion, a peace and understanding, they were struck with grief yet they had something in them pulling them along. (to be honest we all saw past the bullshit the media was saying, we were there, she was dead after they tried CPR and she left covered with a white sheet, it was an instant death)

Hey im not atheist (OVIOUSLY), I believe that is probably the most bullshit, selfish, and meaningless belief to go by. i just think that if you have this thing called the Bible that has never once been proven false on any acount, but has converted most of those that set out to prove it false, and has led a faith to to have lasted more than 2000 years with over billions of followers yet has been critisized since the begining by ppl like you. i mean there is definately a supernatural power behind it no doubt in my mind. i think ppl are just scared by it. im not goin to get into this any more tho, cause if u never believed it before, what’ll change now? this isnt about that, this whole thing is about YOU THE WRITER using this tragedy to poke a pussy punch insult at the christian faith on how its just crap, and if you have a response for me, I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO HEAR IT.

As for the rest of it, everybody should shut up.

No, they shouldn’t.

And you can not tell me that this didnt happen for a reason. There were so many people that went throught the ride safely, so why this person, why this time? there is no coincidences here. its all God.

God did it, huh?

Prove it.

I don’t think it is necessary, useful or appropriate to come to any judgmental conclusions about the character of the people at Lifest according to the amount of time that activities stopped, whether two hours or more or less, or what kind of activities resumed.

This is not a time to make philosophical hay in your own outlook’s favor, whether believer or non-believer; not a time to either criticize or to champion Christianity. This is a time to feel empathy for the girl’s family who are suffering right now, and if you are in a position to offer them support then to do so.

As for the rest of it, everybody should shut up.

I agree, but unfortunately I doubt many others will

Can you even imagine being the other person who was on that ride right now…?

It’s a miracle they survived.

That poor girl! I feel so sorry for her family. What a horrible thing to happen at what should have been a fun, joyful, relaxing event. I cannot accept the notion that she died because “God took her home.” Isn’t God supposed to be loving, compassionate, and kind? How loving is it to murder someone, especially in such a terrifying fashion? Imagine the fear that girl felt as she was falling to her death. Is it an act of love to make people afraid? If God really wanted her in heaven so badly, why didn’t he kill her in her sleep? At least that would have more humane.

Btw, how can anyone be sure she went to heaven? “Not all who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven.” You can be doing everything you’re supposed to be doing, even casting out demons, prophesying, and performing miracles, and be tossed into hell like so much cord wood because Jesus was PMSing that day. Maybe it was Satan who killed her. I mean, Christians are always saying how bad Satan is, yet not one of them is blaming HIM for this tragedy! Why is that?

I’ll tell you why–it’s because in the Bible, all evil is done by GOD, not by Satan. All thru the Old Testament, it is God who brings the plagues, floods, war, fire from heaven, death and misery. In the NT, Satan plays a minimal role, only appearing long enough to test Jesus on the mountain and then to take part in John’s pipe dream in Revelations. It is no wonder Christians are saying “God did it”–they don’t have any other precedent!

Isa. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Amos 3:6 Shall there be evil in a city and the Lord has not done it?

So, if BibleGod exists, then perhaps his followers are right to blame him–he freely admits to doing evil. I would suggest they find a nicer god to worship.

Right after the Virginia Tech massacre, even before the bodies were counted, tasteless, heartless and unscrupulous jerks came out from under every ideological rock imaginable to blame whatever group, religion or political view that they opposed. None of it had anything to do with the tragedy, but they didn’t give a damn. It should have been called Carnival of the Cheap Shots. Lots of people who comment on this site found all that reprehensible.

I don’t understand the purpose of Hemant’s posting this other than an invitation for people to take their cheap shots.

What exactly is the “irony” about this, other than it’s a death at an event called “Lifest?” That doesn’t have anything to do with Christianity, but Hemant seems to imply that it does.

What exactly is he implying about the length of time that there was a pause in the activities? What would satisfy him as a proper response? That everybody immediately went home? There’s nothing in Emily Post’s etiquette books suggesting a way of handling a situation like this. There were thousands of people there. There was an accident. What the hell were they were supposed to do?

Some Christians will say they’re praying for the girl and her family. Some will talk about God doing this or God doing that. That’s what they do, guys! That’s their world view, and how they try to make sense of life. We don’t agree, but there are much better examples to use to challenge them. To take advantage of this as an opportunity to sneer and snark about their religion is a CHEAP SHOT and those who do should be ashamed of themselves. Criticize Christians when they’re standing up, not when they’re down on the mat.

Accidents happen wherever people gather in large numbers. They happen at church picnics, rock concerts and Hell’s Angels conventions. Some day some tragic accident is going to happen at an atheist convention. When dozens of assholes who also happen to be Christian start saying that it’s God’s vengeance, the same people cheap-shooting here are going to shout “How dare you take such a cheap shot!”

i never look at these things as Gods plan… more God can turn it around to use it for good… it may bring family/community members closer together, it may help others value life more, etc etc…
For example, i was sexually abused by 3 different people when i was a kid. Was it Gods plan, HELL NO… but i believe that he has used my experience to help others. If i could turn back the clock i would not change a thing about my past, as it made me who i am today.

I — a “born again” Christian pastor — was there and know this first hand:

With respect to the quote from Edmund Burke — “The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing” — posted on another site by a story on the “ride death” a a 16 year old Christian girl this weekend in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, good men there did do something ahead of time but numerous LIFEST leaders crassly and without due diligence, concern, insight, wisdom, concern or vision, blatantly and inexcusably refused to address the concerns, justifying the overt violation of their written safety guidelines and promises to security volunteers (some of whom were injured because LIFEST knowingly violated all standards of reasonable civil and/or Christian conduct)!

We read in God’s Word that “Where there is no vision a people perish!” The self-centered lack of vision by LIFEST leaders literally led, I believe (from an insider’s perspective) to the perhaps entirely avoidable death of Elizabeth Mohl!

For those kids thinking “God took” Elizabeth, I believe she is, indeed, with Him. But I do not believe that He “took” her. Instead, He had men and women claiming that the safety of all attendees were in their worthy hands, then knowingly and nearly intentionally lifted their hands of protection over kids like Elizabeth. That’s to say, God did not take her, but “we” let her slip from our hands and into His. And His mercy and promise kept for her salvation cannot and should not be our excuse for such negligence!

And Wes Halula was foolish and wrong to say that the LIFEST team needed to get over the “shock” of Liz’s death before they could examine what they might have done differently. What might have been differently was forcefully spoken to them before the accident/death. What they need to examine, if anything, is their hearts and consciouses and the heart and mind of God to see why it is they would ignore such warnings of likely danger and death (in particular) if they did not change their behavior (that is the staff, first, as well as attendees).

LIFEST brazenly ignored and such more than reasonable warnings, acknowledging the wisdom of the warnings. Money over safety…

Also, LIFEST DID NOT Shut down following the accident/death for any period of time! And they don’t need to “get over the shock” before they examine what they might have done differently. They were told of dangers on site before the “accident” and overtly refused to correct/change all sorts of things. Time will tell whether the truth comes out, but there are those who know it and Halula is not speaking it! They also ingnored warnings and refused at the highest level of their staff to enforce their own alleged “security policies” before all of the injuries at the SKILLET concert! Their behavior was decidedly negligent, illegal and non-Christian!

I agree with Richard Wade as well. And from a theistic perspective, Mike C makes sense too. When I was a theist, and someone very close to me died, the fact that I thought she was in heaven helped me cope. I know many here will say it was “irrational”, but having to deal with death I wasn’t exactly “rational”. I don’t think I could have gotten through it without it. It does have it’s purposes, its usefulness, and its place. I must say I’m getting tired of this whole “everything theistic is bad no matter what” line I’m hearing more and more all over the internet (not so much here but other places). I don’t see how a little girl’s death should become an opportunity to bash something.

Dear Atheist:

I will also add, this time, that you should reserve your criticism not for Elizabeth Mohl…

Certainly she had the free will to take the ride, but the organizers had a civil and biblical obligation to do what they failed and refused to do. This is not a simple “accident” but the forseeable and avoidable end result of adults charged with and obligated to protect[ing] the welfare of all participants. I dare to say that this man should thank God Liz was not in his group, and that he did not, as I did, have to counsel and comfort the surviving friend of Liz and the two girls who left the ride right before and talked with Liz as they exchanged the harness on the ramp.

This is a repost of one posted elsewhere online on a student jounalist’s daily web log written from on scene at LIFEST …

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!”

Dear Rachel:

First, let me congratulate you on your excellent writing skills and journalistic talents and values. It is essential to not write about something as “truth” unless you know it to be true. You have written the truth of your experiences and reserved the right to do so about other things at LIFEST (and in life) for those who experienced it first hand.

That being said, your devoted readers might like to know more of the truth that you could not know because you were doing other great work as a reporter and volunteer elsewhere on the grounds this past week…

I am a “born again” Christian pastor who has worked for many of the best known ministries and who was there as part of the volunteer security and know this first hand:

Edmund Burke once said (paraphrase): “The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing!”

Posted on another site beside a story on Liz’s death a LIFEST, this aphorism from Burke prompts me to want you and others to know this: good men there did do something ahead of time by reporting serious concerns for visitor safety and risks of harm and/or death in a number of areas — including campsites, concerts and the Air Glory ride — but numerous LIFEST leaders repeatedly crassly and in violation of the principles and values of civil and biblical due diligence, insight, wisdom, concern or vision, blatantly and inexcusably refused to address the concerns, justifying the overt violation of their written safety guidelines and promises to security volunteers (some of whom were injured because LIFEST knowingly violated all standards of reasonable civil and/or Christian conduct)!

We read in God’s Word that “Where there is no vision a people perish!”

What I observed to be what I would call a self-centered lack of vision and wisdom by LIFEST leaders — including Bob Lenz and numerous senior LIFEST and security leaders, literally led (I believe, from an insider’s perspective) to the perhaps (I think almost certainly) entirely avoidable death of Elizabeth Mohl!

For those kids thinking “God took” Elizabeth, I believe she is, indeed, with Him. But I do not believe that He “took” her.

Instead, and all so sadly, He had men and women claiming that the safety of all attendees were in their worthy hands — people who knowingly and willfully and, I believe, even intentionally lifted their hands of protection from over and around wonderful kids like Elizabeth. That’s to say, God did not take her, but “we” let her slip from our hands and into His. And His mercy and promise kept for her salvation cannot and should not be our excuse for such negligence!

Since you mention Skillet, know that they (LIFEST leaders) were repeatedly warned well before that concert of serious threats of injury and death, and in one hour alone at that concert — after LIFEST brazenly ignored warnings, then pulled security from the crowd — dozens of people were hurt there, with around a half dozen EMS calls; and broken bones, cuts, bruises and other injuries that were untransported, etc. Also, one family came to me pleading to be heard, since they said LIFEST refused to treat their daughter’s broken thumb. They literally pulled up stakes and left the event that night, having to drive a couple of hours to get home and obtain medical treatment, as they claim LIFEST refused or was incapable of doing so. Yet I warned them hours before that such was the likely outcome of that concert if they continued to violate common sense and their own stated safety and security policies.

They also ingnored warnings and refused at the highest level of their staff to enforce their own alleged “security policies” before all of the injuries at the SKILLET concert!

Space here and discretion does not allow specific names (particularly in light of the police investigation), but please do not confuse discretion with generalization or broad attacks. So, if nothing else, rest assured, just as I wish to assure readers here, that I am not saying such things about the (far better than) “average” volunteers like you and those you write about, who were, indeed, almost all devoted, tireless (though tired) and thoughtful servants in the very mold of the heart and hands of Jesus Christ Himself.

I am confident that the specifics will be revealed in the investigation to the investigators, whom I have already contacted and whose duty it is and will be to share it with the public. Should that not happen in its proper time and way, then I may choose to “go more public” with what I saw and experienced first hand!

For all of the good you experienced with Tammy Borden, which no doubt made your week wonderful in so many ways, Communication Director Wes Halula was foolish and wrong to say to reporters that the LIFEST team needed to get over the “shock” of Liz’s death before they could examine what they might have done differently. What might have been done differently was forcefully spoken to them before the accident/death by me and others. Even if that were not the case, they should not have lost one moment to reflect on that very issue immediately, so that not one more thing would go wrong for lack of attentiveness. That they were so concerned with their own grief to focus on the safety of others and how to ensure that safety immediately demonstrates, I believe, the lack of wisdom, maturity, experience and concern that any adult should have, let alone a minstry and business and concert promotion group, etc.

What they need to examine, if anything, is their hearts and consciouses and the heart and mind of God to see why it is that they would — from the lowest to highest points of LIFEST management — repeatedly, intentionally and willfully ignore such warnings of likely danger and death (in particular) if they did not change their behavior (that is the staff, first, as well as attendees). LIFEST brazenly ignored such more than reasonable warnings, while literally, at the same time, acknowledging the wisdom of the warnings I and others spoke to them! Money over safety…?

They must also examine whether what they said to anyone and everyone in the wake of this all — from the visitors in the seats to the media — was true. (I know certain things to have not been true, which troubles me in an era when Christians often do not trust the media. You must understand that not all “Christians” speak truth, either, so, unfortunately, the media is as much a victim in such cases as the readers, the Church and the good name of our Lord and Savior, as well! (God is big enough to not be bothered or swayed or hurt my the media — His Church is not!)

Also, in spite of claims to the contrary, LIFEST DID NOT “shut down” following the accident/death for any period of time!

And they don’t need to “get over the shock” before they examine what they might have done differently. They were told of dangers on site before the “accident” and overtly refused to correct/change all sorts of things.

Time will tell whether the truth comes out, but there are those who know it and Halula is not speaking it!

Their behavior was decidedly negligent, illegal and non-Christian!

I feel sure that when God saw the men and women who promised to care for Liz and so many others fail and even refuse to do so (though many other volunteers gave so much in trying — so that you do not think this a generalized “attack” on those we all know to have been wise and faiythful stewards and watchment appointed by God), that “JESUS WEPT!”

In addition to praying for Liz’ parents, family and friends, I’m praying for the young woman with her and the two girls who met them when they exchanged the harnesses on the ride site after finishing their ride, as I ministered with others to all three of them on site.

They all deserve the absolute truth, and the public after them. As for me and my house, we will continue to serve the Lord, and I will advise all whom I know to not risk sending their kids to LIFEST in particular. The bands — some of which I have worked with — are great and wonderful Christian “ministers” and missionaries, to be sure — but LIFEST, I believe, cannot be entrusted with the role of being stewards and watchmen of the safety of children and adults alike!

Amidst deep sadness and a dose of anger over the inaction that seems to have led to this tragic loss, I find some comfort in this: I’ve been told that Liz was a “born again” Christian! In that, we know how her story ends — just as the life of her Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ: tragedy, perhaps pain, but immeasureable glory and an eternal life wherein there are, in the words of the song (No More Nights) based on Scripture: “No more nights, no more pain, no more tears, never crying again, and praises to the Great I Am, we will live in the light of the Risen Lamb!”

For those young men and women (even adults) wrestling with such a question as “Why did God take her in this way?” be sure that He did not take her in this way; but He did receive her in His way! In the midst of the pain we share and that of her parents, which we can barely compehend, that is our One True Blessed Assurance!

And that, as He has done for such a wonderful girl as Liz (whose friends and teachers sing her praises on sites and to media outlets all over the web), “He Who began a good work in you will be faithful to bring it to completion on the day of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!” (Philippians 1:6)

Jesus loves Liz and will complete His good work in her! In fact, He did almost 2,000 years ago when, on top of a cross, He boldly declared:

“It is finished!”

We love Him and we love Liz in the love He gave us!

“You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!”

I would just like to take this time to evangelizes to anyone reading this site and who is searching for the truth and comfort. This is for anyone who feels the void in their heart, and Drugs or Alcohol,or pornagrahpy,or sex isnt filling that void. Cuz i can tell you the only thing that will fill this void is the Great I am, the everlasting God, Jesus Christ.

He was the Greatest man to ever walk the face of this planet. A king, who came to this earth to die on a cross for 9 painful hours for me and you. I think Jesus is amazing and over the past month, i had the pleasure of Going on a Mission trip to Denver, Co, to see Jesus in Action. It was the trip of a lifetime. WE drove there, and one the way we had the honor of witnessing to a homeless couple, but in the end, they actually witnessed to us. There story was so amazing. And when we got there, all lot of people were getting hurt and sick (Spiritual Warefare), but within a day everyone was healthy again! I had the pleasure of working in a nursing home for two days, and then i was able to paint houses for two more days. And on one night , we had praise and worship on top of a mountain, and it was so amazing!!! I saw God change the hearts of many on the trip, but most of all he changed me. Before i went on this trip, i was depressed, angry, and sad. I had a relationship with JEsus, but it was like i hadnt let go of everything and given it to JEsus. I was still holding onto my Pride, Sin, Self Image, and ANger. And On this trip, Jesus showed me that the only way i was going to be happy was if i just gave everything to him. I know what happened, and YOu can’t argue with me on this subject because i Felt God on that trip, and there is no doubt in my mind that he exsist. WOw, i am just so amazed of my Jesus…..

So, some of you may be reading this and you may be searching for the truth and comfort. FOr some, there is a hole, or a void in your hear, and Drugs or Alcohol or sex isnt filling that void. Cuz i can tell you the only thing that will fill this void is the Great I am, the everlasting God, Jesus Christ.

Yes i know, what your thinking.. “Ya Jesus, OKay prove it.”
Well okay…..

SO there are a few things we have to examine about this man named jesus. There is no doubt that he was a live and existed in history. Believe there is more evidence that Jesus was alive and walked the planet, than George Washington was the first President of the United States of AMerica…
However, some of you may be thinking, “Ya i KNow Jesus exsisted, but I think he was just a good rabbi, or a guy with revolutionary ideas, and he he died never rose again after his crucifixion.”

So you also have to ask yourself, “WHo was JEsus? Was he Lord, Liar, Or Lunitic?” WEll i am here to clear up everything for you.

Was Jesus a Lunitic? I Definiatly think not… If you look at everything that came out of his mouth, nothing points towards the fact that he was crazy..Even if he wasnt GOd Himself, he still left behind a lot of wisdom for people to consider…. For Example Jesus told us to,” Turn the other cheek if someone slapps you, or if someone asks for your coat, give them your sweater too”..

To be honest, It is very unlikely that he was Lunitic

NOw, Was Jesus a Liar? Was he lieing about being the Son of God, and Being Christ himself? OR Was it a conspiricy by the 12 disciples? I think not. The main thing you have to consider is the the Crucifxion… WHy on earth would Jesus of Nazareth Suffer on a Cross for 9 hours for a lie? He was sentanced to death for claiming to be the Son of God, and at any moment on that cross, he could renounced everything he said, and he would have been taken off the cross. Yet never did that. Why?

HOpefully by now you are thinking that Jesus is the Messiah, but you still have one good question. ” Ya He may have been the messiah, but what if it was a conspiracy and he never rose from the dead?”
WEll you have to ask yourself, ” WHat GOod is a Dead MEssiah?” There is no good reason for a dead messiah. IF you look at all the Discpiles and there eye witness accounts of Jesus’s Ressurection, they all have the same story, and each one is 100 % alike. Each story lines up with each other, there are no gaps and no questioable errors. IF you think about it tho, WHy would ALL of Jesus’s Disciples Die and Be tourtured for a LIe? Every single Discple (except Judas the Scariet) was either tortued or killed for Proclaiming Jesus as Lord. Why Would these Men Die For a LIe? They wouldn’t, becasue it wasnt a lie. James was pushed off a building and stoned to death. Thomas was Burned alive. Simon Peter was Crucified upside down. JOhn was Thrown in Boiling Oil. IF it was a lie, dont you think at one point, one of them would have renounced Jesus? But they didnt. NOT a single Disciple…

THis is why i think Jesus is My Lord, do you? Not only is this convincing to me…. But if you think about it……

Lets just look at WOrld religions in general…. CHristianity is the only religion to claim to have a Rissen Messiah. If you look at Buddia, or Confusious, or Mohomad of Islam. Non of these religious firgures Claimed to Have rissen from the dead. IF you look, you will find Mohomad’s bones or buddia’s or Confusius, but NOt Jesus Christ’s…

Christianity is the only Faith to Claim to Have a Rissen MEssiah, and if you dont think that is pretty powerful, than i think you better question your logic…
And just look at how long it has been around. Since the beginning of time.. The oldest religion known to man. ANother Plus for Christianity.

But the thing you have to remeber about christianity… ITs not a Religon. Its a personsal relationship with JEsus Christ. Just like that of you and your best friend..

SO for those who really believe what i am saying, and are seeking Christ.. It is so simple..
Christ says all you need to do is, “Profess from your mouth, and Believe in your heart, and you will be saved”

That is how easy it is to have eternal Life… Jesus also says… “I am the Way, THe truth, and the LIght… NO one comes to the FATHER except through me.” John 14.

How are you going to get into heave?

and remember, “It is not by works that we are saved, but only throught the Blood of Jesus Christ.”

Any more questions.
In Christ
A genuine Jesus Freak

i’m not sure which bit was my favourite, reading about Judas the Scariet or the fact that i won’t get into heave…

maybe it was just all those random capitals that really convinced me…*sigh*

Badger,
For serious accusations to be taken clearly, they need to be made by someone not hiding behind anonymity. If what you say is true, you should say who you are, and immediately contact appropriate authorities. Otherwise, this really isn’t the venue for long, copied-and-pasted tirades about specific allegations…

Hemant, maybe this post would’ve been better in a few weeks? I think the post itself was respectful, though the comments immediately went downhill, and it’s important to ask these question, but given the mixed nature of your audience, a little more delay might have played better.

Sorry about the “copy and paste” problem, globalizatzi…

Perhaps that’s why the Bible doesn’t work for you either — just a reprint of something womeone wrote about what others said and has been reprinted time and again…

Oops, same problem with the daily newspaper, I suppose.

Then again, your criticism is like that old adage about journalists, “Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story.” For you, it’s “Never let the facts get in the way of making an erroneous criticism.”

First of all, the story said I was in contact with authorities. No doubt, you probably hae President Bush (let’s say you do). Should I expect you to speak only your truth privately to him and bind your lips and fingers in public? One right or obligation — whether as a citizen or Christian — does not negate or require the prior exercise of the other to be legitimate.

Also, I don’t need to identify myself to prove the truth of what I say, just as your comments are no more or less true by YOUR OWN anonymity! The truth is the truth, no mae who spoke it.

As or your criticism of cut and paste, which is one of the lamest gripes — after all, if I cut and pasted here absolute proof for the atheist that there was no God or that there was a God, depending on your preferred life choice, I surely and definitevly doubt that you would take issue with it, especially to the extent that it supported your preferred position!

Furthermore, I had the integrity to let you know the source of the material, which iwrote to another but was entirely relevant and slightly adapted to the presentation and discussion on this site. Then again, integrity and honesty seem to bother you, since you violate the same principal (anonymity) over which you chastise me! I guess hypocrisy is not the exclusive purview of we CHristians after all, is it?

And finally, having the background I do, I know many things you do not or seem coy enough to pretend you do not. The truth I speak can and will be proven true, but one offering information and testimony can and often needs anonymity even in serving the police and DAs. If you think I am stupid enough to lie to anyone and/or stupid enough to speak so great a truh and put myself in harms way while attempting to help the investigation, you are more a fool than you realize. To reveal my name would be to forewarn those responsible and help them know where to go and what to do to cover up what they’ve done and I can demonstrate before the police get there… (Then again, are you a Christian whose conscience would allow you to be complicit in such a cover up? Are you asking, encouraging, suggesting or telling me o do such a thing?! Hmmmm. seems like you might just be…)

Then again, your blatant ignorance of the fact that I wrote that I had contacted the authorities demonstrates, in light of your erroneous comments suggesting that I had not, proves your ignorance and lack of wisdom and vision beyond question.

By the way, the name of the investigators I’ve spoken to or left messages with in the various investigating agencies are Joseph T, David, Sergeant “X”, two Oshkosh Police Officer and DA Christian Gossett.

So, my “friend,” just what do you know and who have you told?!

By the way, Hemant, while I think a few of the citations and links are dubious — and believe that the CNN Savage link was a fraud created by the poster (which you or I could do in five seconds — I also believe that the geneal quesions you have raised are legitimate.

Though you may be coming at them with a different agenda, seeking and speaking the truth is something that Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul said are essential, even for the non-believer. In fact, when the disciples cam e to him angry and asking him to stop non-believers from speaking the truth of the gospel, Paul said (paraphrase), “Lighten up boys — in either case, the truth is going forth.”

You may be a wofl in sheep’s clothing, Hemant, but you are almsot respectful to a fault in this case in relation to a religion and dogma that are clearly a thorn in your side. Kudos for that, if nothing else.

If you knew more about who I am and what I have done and for which Christian ministries (some of the worlds very best known and widely respected), you might be surprised to see that I have said such a thing. But edification is not a gift that Christians are told is intended to be the exclusive gift to fellow Christians.

I could not disagree more wholeheartedly about your views on the Bible and rejection of Jesus Christ, but I do appreciate the generally civil and respectful tone of this post thread. Though you may be privately applauding the seeming ironies, paradoxes and evidences of God’s absence from all things (and existence, to boot), you have shown what i consider incredible restraint and general good will.

Odd some times, as Paul demonstrated, that the truth should make such “odd bedfellows”!

Regards…

Dear Pundit:

I am not remotely concerned with what you say is the “impression” you have gotten. Impressions are not necessarily reality and you clearly ignore the reality of my posts.

Before you pop off again about things you clearly neither know nor care about, let me encourage and IMPLORE you to read the posts for the first time (since your blatant ignorance and lack of clarity makes it clear that you almost certainly never read them in the first place)!

I did say all of these things to LIFEST leaders all along! They did not listen, people were injured and died!

What about that do you not understand.

Speaking the truth in love does not mean just the truth for LIFEST, but also the truth in love for the Mohl family, the Lord and all involved (the Lord’s desires and instructions being first). It seems to me that you conduse that passage with an instruction to not say something that is the truth if it might get someone in trouble. Well, if that’s the case, imagine a very different day today had they followed the very specific and strongly spoken advice and exhortation made to around 10 people, plus two Oshkosh police officers.

I’m not concerned with your impression of any of it! You are clearly a confused and decieved soul who also refuses to answer any questions about you! You, instead, are the anonymous and attacking person who enjoys the legitimacy of these claims.

By the way, did you call the state investigators with what you know, as I did long before you claimed I did not or should do so if my concerns were “legitimate”? Have you called them to get proof that I did not? Your ignorance and foolishness are no excuse for your inane comments.

If you are an atheist, then to quote God’s Word is a greater “joke” than for me as a Christian to believe and propogate a belief in a God that,a ccording to your beliefs, does not exist. For you to quote His word and claim I am obligated to obey it is not only the height of illiogic, by hypocrisy, schizophrenia and insanity!

I you are a Christian, the you clearly do not understand the meaning of that verse in the light of the fulness of Scripture. If you did, you would understand and respect God’s Word to the “watchman” of Ezekiel! And you would be praising God that someone has the courage o speak such difficult truths, not chastising them to stop it! So, that would make you a Christian not concerned about truth, only “protecting the Church fromthe truth” in a fit a denial! (Denial is not just a river in Egypt!)

Sad state of spiritual and intellectual affairs you seem to reveal in your life and that of the LIFEST team! Just what job do you hold with them? What is at risk for you speaking or hearing and believing THE TRUTH, pundit? It seems, again, that your screen name reveals much about you… criticizing things that you neither know nor truly care about!

Good luck with that!

Wow, just wow.

CPOWELL WROTE:

Badjer Bugler,

“My goodness, what kind of pastor are you and who are you to judge?”

I AM SORRY YOU THINK I am judging. I am only speaking truth about what I saw and what others did entirely related to safety, potential injury and death at LIFEST! Sorry that I have apparently done so in a way you do not like or sounds the way you think it does. The only intent here is for the whole truth to be known.

“Numerous times you have made yourself out to sound like the almighty prophet that warned the “mean guys” at LifePromotions of what could go wrong.”

IT IS YOU WHO SAY that I am. However, if that is the truth, then so be it. I am not happy to be in this position. You appear to be glad to attack someone speaking the truth where and when you cannot attack the truth itself. Sort of Phariseeaical, yourself, don’t you think?

“Everything you spew sounds evil and vindictive.”

YES, CPOWELL, what I spew is about evil things done that caused injury to many and may have caused the death of one!

“Did someone’s church grow bigger than yours?”

EVERY CHURCH IS bigger than mine, since the one true Church belongs to Christ alone.

“It seems like you have inner resentment for some of these people at LifePromotions.”

No personal resentment, only that a deplore misconduct and deceit and reckless disregard for the life of any other by any person, in our out of the church. I hate the sin without hating the sinner. That you miss the distinction may well be my fault for the passion and force with which I feel compelled to speak the truth. I am sorry that it is so strong, but a proportinate response is often required and rarely offered or recieved.

“Leave it alone and let the law step in and be the judge.”

YEAH, leave it alone so that the “whole truth and nothing but the truth” is missed by the silence of those in the know who were at the scene of various moral, spiritual and potentially legal crimes… The same thing Adam did in the Graden: stayed silent as Satan taunted and tempted Eve into a sing which led to the death and fall of all that God ever created or would be created by Him in and through the fallen. Adam was silent. LIFEST leaders were silent! God is not silent! He told us in Ezekiel and elsewhere that we will answer for the blood of those who die from our silence and tells me and you to speak all truth and warning for the protection of others. He does not say, “remain silent and let the civil authorities deal with it because the church isn’t gonna like the way you speak the truth”! He says to “sound the trumpet” out of love and concern for the lives of those around you!

I am truly sorry you do not like the way I’ve done it, but what would you have done if you saw and did and said what I did and got the same response? Would you have remained silent? Don’t ask me what the result of that is, since God will tell you first hand in Ezekiel! Why do you tell someone following His watchman charge to be silent? It is not that I had anything to lose or am bitter about anything! What I wonder is what connection you have to LIFEST that would allow you to publicly say that other kids and parents should not know about such misconduct, and that Elizabeth Mohl’s family and the DA and State Investigators sold not know what I saw and said and did and they did and did not do…

I won’t waste any more of your time addressing pastoral responsibility. It is the “hands off” laissez faire approach to faith and life that I suppose repules many atheists, who see Christians as more concerned with their own welfare than that of the world. No doubt, you’re helping their cause here!

“And for the record while in the past I have come across some real creeps working for LifeFest I have also come across some wonderful and amazing people working for the same organization. Face it there are great people and not so great people everywhere.”

YES, THANK YOU! I agree with you. And, again, I am sorry if I left the impression there are not. I have never said that and did not mean that. But that is not the issue here. The issue is that, as I saw it, certain particular people in leadership roles with LIFEST were responsible for contemporaneously documented acts/sins of ommission and commission with respect to the welfare and lives of many, including concert goers and Air Glory riders. They are the ones responsible. My report to state investigators and interviews with the DA clearly outline that. This is not a puff magazine piece, but a report about possible crimes. They’re not interested in everything that went right, but what went wrong and information that may enlighten them in their investigation, wherever it goes and however it ends. My only agenda is that they have the whole truth, including my testimony. Will you be a witness? Do you suppose they’ll call you? What will you have to say? Will it be relevant to the investigation? If so, God demands that you speak the truth. If not, then remain rightly silent, since the essential prerequisitie to saying something relevant is having something relevant to say!

“And it sounds more to me like maybe you wanted a job somewhere that you didn’t get.”

YEAH, sort of wanted to work for LIFEST after working for the POPE and BILLY GRAHAM. Big step up! There are great Christian people who have oluneeed and peomed, and all is ea in hat respect, but the idea that someone is a bitter, spurned or disgruntled wanna be or former employee (etc.) none of which I am is always a nice way to throw up smoke and mirrors and never deal with the truth. Sort of like blaming the rape victim for being raped. Sad approach you have to such serious matters.

“What church was it again that you pastor?”

One in which you would undoubtedly feel too uncomfortable to call home, which is fine!

As Jesus said, “All who say Lord, Lord will not be with me in heaven!”

So, just what is your role with LIFE!Promotions and LIFEST?

“You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free” from your bitterness and angry tirade against me for speaking the truth. As Paul told the disciples, “It matters not that they speak the truth of the Gospel for righteousness sake, for in either case, the truth goes forth!”

You would do well to appreciate that even in my imperfect way and sins and failures, the truth of what I have written is no less true because you don’t like me or the way I said it.

CPOWELL

P.S. By the way… Are you a Christian? How do you deal with “Be angry but do not sin in anger!” How do you deal with the “God is Love” thing in the face of the Jesus who ransacked the Temple, tossed the belongings and turned over the tables of the money changers? What about “righteous” anger? Do you suppose Jesus would be angry over what happened at LIFEST? Dozens were injured AND A GIRL DIED for God’s sake (almost literally)! Just what does it take to get you angry enough to do the right thing? Are you the same guy who stood silent as they dragged Jesus off to His death, whispering to your friend, “Leave it alone, let the civil authorities take care of it and do nothing that might help prevent injury or death to Him!”?

If you are right, you will never hear of my report or testimony to the authorities. If I am right, you probably will. If you are right and I am wrong, my character and integrity will be meaningless and worse than destroyed. I am not interested in spiritual or reputational suicide. But, as Jim Elliot wrote, “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” I will freely give the truth given unto me to gain the approval of my Lord and Savior, not men. And without presuming upon grace, I also submit myself to HIS authority for correction and punishment for any sin I committed along the way, even those I might have committed in the way you wish me and others to believe.

Do you, CPOWELL, wish to hear the praises of men, as you think I should seek from you, or do you wish to hear from Him, Well done, my good and faithful servant. As you did it to these … you did it to me!”

“As you do it for/unto the least of these, my brethren, you do it for/unto me. As you fail to do it for/unto the least of these, my brethren, you fail to do it for/unto me!”

Or are you willing to risk Him saying, “Depart from me, I did not know you! … You failed to do it unto the least of these … you failed to do it unto me!”

Your real issue is not with me here, it is with Jesus Christ!

I “know The Truth and The Truth has set [me] free”!

As a law enforcement officer said over a much more serious matter, “The refiner’s fire is always necessary and rarely sought out.”

Ask and you shall receive!

Seek and you shall find!

Knock and it shall be opened unto you!

Thinking?

Badjer Bugler
If Lifefest didn’t have it’s christian name over it you wouldn’t have thought twice to step foot in this debate.

“dozens got injured” I’m sure that statement is true, but what else would you expect to happen with a gaggle of teens bodying surfing to Skillet. How many “injuries” do you think happen at Lalapalooza or CornerStone or other such music fest.

You cannot honestly expect LifeFest leaders to put their protective wings over everyone. You cannont expect that just because LifeFest is a christian festival no one can get hurt.

So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you. You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud, thats slandor and if I am correct very against biblical principles. But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around. I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.

By the way I am sorry you had to endure working for the Pope?!?! My husband is in the Military so I suppose he could say he works for the President. The usher at church could claim to work for the pope.

And for the record I am very familiar with most of the churches in the Fox Valley area, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable in any of them, religion and spiritualality just don’t do that to me.

olvlzl,
“God is Love” predates those mystics: 1st John 4:8 & 16 both say that “God is love,” and while the so-called “Love Chapter” of 1st Corinthians (its 13th) doesn’t have the exact quote, the prose (at least in translation) is rather beautiful:

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal…If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud… It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Nevertheless, there is a much better argument that God’s primary characteristic in the Old and New Testaments is Holiness, not Love.

olvlzl,
Sorry to be imprecise; I wasn’t claiming those were quotes from Jesus at all. I was thinking your reference to “some mystics” was referring to later Christians instead of Biblical authors.

Of course Paul didn’t even claim to know Jesus in person, but only through visions and talking to others who might have known Jesus. The letters of his that are authentic (I’m not sure if 1st Corinthians falls in that category in its entirety, I’d have to research it) are probably the earliest extant Christian writings, so Paul may have a better shot at getting the message of Jesus straight than many of the Gospels and such that came later.

If you start with the idea that God is infinite, all powerful, all knowing, etc. then any definition is bound to be incomplete and idolatrous.

Agreed. Of course, the Bible certainly contains many attempts to describe (moreso than define) God despite his allegedly all-encompassing nature. All of those varied attempts at description by authors from different backgrounds give you a whole lot of text from which an infinite number of assertions about the nature of God and his Will may be derived. (Thus you get the incredible flexibility of Christianity that has allowed it to survive in variations as diverse as medieval Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the modern emergent church.) I was merely trying to say that there are more descriptions of God as Holy in the Bible than as Love. I can’t think of any term that is used to describe God more often than Holy. Do you concur?

globalizati said,

July 20, 2007 at 12:56 am

For the record:
Badger Bugler’s current word count is at 8318. Given an average typing speed of 40 words/minute, that’s ~3.5 hours for actual typing, not including time spent thinking.

>>YEAH, GLOBALI-NAZI: But the TRUTH COUNT is much higher, the whole equaling much more than the sum of its parts, an all! Also, since facts aren’t important to you, you wold actually have no idea how fast I type. For that matter, is 3.5 hours (even if it were right) too much time to spend invested on telling the truth, protecting others and doing the right thing?

You must be an atheist or very bored and disinterested, disengaged, dispossessed, disheartened, heretical and/or apostate Christian. With your standards, the Bible would be a pamphlet!

I can almost certainly hear you now. You were there when they crucified the Lord, sceaming, “Crucify Him! Let is blood be on our hands and on our children’s…”!

And I hear the echo, there on Calvary, from the hillside days before (your voice again?): “Alright, already, Jesus! Enough already with the long parables! Jusst say it straight! You have all the Power, you say! Why not just give us the Power Point version! Bullet points, Jesus! Bullet points. Oh, that’s right, we haven’t invented bullets yet! Well, nail points, Jesus! Nail points! I’ve followed you for three years and I still don’t get a word you’re saying! Would you just, for once and for all, cut to the chariot chase?! For once!? For all!? My Blackberry’s beeping, I got a Temple Council meeting in 10 minutes (we’re voting on whether to turn over some nut job Messiah wanna be who keeps talking about the Kingdom of God and rightesouness and he’s making us all very nervous) and my wife wants me to trade in our 10 year old donkey for the latest model! And speaking of models, I met this incredible woman at the brothel last week who looked just like that broad in last month’s issue of BATHSHEBA MONTHLY! Wheew weee! Let me tell you…”

P.S. Your word count, whatever it is, is that much too much, since you have not said one thing to correct or refute any fact stated by me or anyone else. You are just a scoffer, critic and ostrich. Your head is buried on weak and shifting sand, while my feet are firmly on the ROCK!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

olvlzl, no ism, no ist said,

July 20, 2007 at 5:51 am

How do you deal with the “God is Love” thing in the face of the Jesus who ransacked the Temple, tossed the belongings and turned over the tables of the money changers? ’ve got no problem with Jesus overturning the money changers’ tables. “God is love”, I don’t seem to recall Jesus saying
this, can you provide a reference?

> THANK YOY, AS YOU ARE BASICALLY CORRECT. I was responding to the earlier assertion by someone who does not like me or what I’ve done who said, directly, I believe, that a “God is love” and hands off you are not to judge” attitude and theology should be the reason I stay quiet and particularly say nothing since these are fellow Christians!

YOU: What I get from the story of the money changers is that the world of commerce and regarding the world in terms of business transactions is essentially opposed to anything that is moral. The purpose of life isn’t the accumulation of wealth. If you stop seeing people in terms of objects to be used or exploited but as having intrinsic worth and rights then everything changes. I suppose you could fit it into the observation that “God is love”, if you wanted to go that way, but I’d just say that commerce is incompatible with morality and life.

> INTERESTING TO NOTE THE later post by someone who says she had been on the medical team, who addresses this from opinion and insider’s first hand experience. Her comment about the qualifications of those in charge is actually one the State Investigators and DA discussed with me! Interesting to see who else offers this assessment, particularly those with professio al experience, as I have in the Security and law enforcement areas (pastor is an avocation, folks, even in Scripture. Also, having been a leader/director at dozens of such events from 600 to 80,000, and one on the DC Mall including around a million, I have truly never seen any “Christian” event so commerical in character or attitude byt he Senior leaders, in particular. As always, the artists were very good and honorable, as were most all volunteers, but it is not RUN by them or shaped by them, nor is the media relations machine that is already dissemintating disinformation from as high up as the LIFE PROMOTIONS board of directors (of which I have first hand knowledge and names)! This event was, in great part, about money, and the post-death machinations are almost certainly about that, and preventing legal consequences that appear to be richly desereved. Many of those leaders were clearing walking around saying “Christ…” (Lord, Lord) but I did not see them walking with or in Christ. That, in this case, is why I believe what hapened happened!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cpowell said,

July 20, 2007 at 7:47 am

Badjer Bugler

If Lifefest didn’t have it’s christian name over it you wouldn’t have thought twice to step foot in this debate.

> I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THAT IS SUPPOSED to mean. The debate has nothing to do with it. The fact that I am a Christian who was at that “Chrstian event” and saw things related to the incidents in question. YOU,my friend, are the one whose motives are clearly suspicious and remain in absolute questionb, wwhether you are a Christian or atheist. I am not attacking Chritsians, Christianity or the cause of Christ. I am speaking the truth of what I did and saw. GROW UP, live with that, and until you wish to speak a fact about this incident and event, it is you who should, perhaps, consider stopping your posts and examining whether it is you who are doing as you accuse me of doing! AGAIN, just what role do/did you have in LEFST and/or LIFE!PROMOTIONS?!

YOU: “dozens got injured” I’m sure that statement is true, but what else would you expect to happen with a gaggle of teens bodying surfing to Skillet.

> I CAN SHOW and am providing the investigators with letters from LIFEST’S SEcurity leaders stating that no such thing would happen and that it would be my job and theat of the entire LIFEST Security Strike Team to stop it instantly. I will waste no more time detailing the stupidityb and willful neligence here, which will come out from my report to investigators. Suffice it to say, we were instructed on being recruited andon arriv ing in Oshkosh that it would be stopped. Instead, LIFEST Security broke that rule, negotiated with certain moshers and eventually pulled Security off the floor instead of doing their stated jobs — that including an intentional body lock and head spike to the ground of a student by an adult, which I intervened on and was immediately punished for by an entirely unqualified 20-ish girl with no professional expeience.

When you get a clue God could do great things with you (or the world, if you are not a believer)!

YOU: You cannot honestly expect LifeFest leaders to put their protective wings over everyone. You cannont expect that just because LifeFest is a christian festival no one can get hurt.

>YOU CONFUSE TWO OR THREE THINGS. LIFEST recruited me to do just that in my role and instructed me to do that. It promised guests. It is not about guaranteeting success and belioeving no one would get hurt. You are talking about a “sour grapes” approach and attitude, which is not what I have at all! I am talking about willful ignorance and negliegnce and refusal to even enforce, let alone attempt to enforce their stated policies in reckless disregard for the extremeley high potential for injury to limb and life. Finally, as another poster wrote after you, the next question is whether they were prepared , just as you (presumably a lay person) would know to be ready for injuries at any such even, Christian or otherwise, and with a qualified staff. Individuals may have been qualified, but leaders apparently were not to handle the potential number of injuries or the type of injuries. This is negligence and forseeale, jus as you noe!o injuy and o human lie
So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you. You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud, thats slandor and if I am correct very against biblical principles. But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around. I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.

By the way, there is a time honored principle of preparation for all such events where conflict or injury and death might be present: PREPARE for what could happen, not for what you think might happen. The former covers it all, the latter the limitations of one’s mind.

YOU: By the way I am sorry you had to endure working for the Pope?!?! My husband is in the Military so I suppose he could say he works for the President.

>ACTUALLY, though irrelevant to the discussion, your comment shows just how poorly you reason. The fact is, your husband does, by law, work under the diredct command of the president The officers above him (maybe even your husband) are commissioned and appointed by the President.

However, suffice it to say that I have very strong opinions on the history of the Catholic Church and the “power andf authority” of the “Pope.” In the end, the Bible tells us that we are to serve under the Kingshop and authority of Christ and Christ alone. That someone is above us in a worldly “power” structure — whether secular or “sacred” — does not mean we are obligated to follow orders, including military ones, that might be illegal or unbiblical. That means we have to also be willing to take the punishment of the world for that, awaiting the rewards of faith and heaven. It is no less true in “the Church” or “ministry.” My faith in Christ — whether shared with LIFEST leaders — obligates me to (in His words) “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar and unto God that which is God’s.” Thus, not only am I obligated to speak the truth I know (unlike you who are writing with no facts and absolute ingnorance, unless, of course the reason you will not answer questions about yourself and attack everything other than facts is because you and/or your hubsand are/were on staff there and know more than you want anyone to know, fearing for your own culpability), to the government authorities, but also as unto God and the Church, Christians and ministry “authorities” and all of the people — Christian or not — they presumed and promised and are still otherwise obligated by civil and biblical law (see Ezekiel 33) are supposed to be protecting and serving! (As the wife of a military servant, you know this, though, don’t you!?Even if he never speaks these words, your husband works with under the title and authority that proclaims him PROPHET and PROTECTOR: Danger will come and I am hpised here to PROTECT and to SEVRE in the name of my king (president) and the King of Kings! But you criticize and rail on me for performing the same duty! Hmmm… Are you a bitter Army or Marine wife? Perhpas you have just not yet seen that what I am trying and called to do here is what your husband does every day! And as one who witnessed these things first hand!

Would yo have soldiers remain silent about what was happening at Walter Reed?

Abu Ghriab?

Examine your heart!

My lai?

Bataan?

Buchenwald?

Just where, then, does the silence end?

On what have you remained silent in your life and the lives of others upon which God was not silent?

YOU: The usher at church could claim to work for the pope.

>YEAH, the same guy who last week said he was the Pope, and, the week before, the Messiah!

YOU: And for the record I am very familiar with most of the churches in the Fox Valley area, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable in any of them, religion and spiritualality just don’t do that to me.

> AHHHH Finally a truth from you! Personal experience. I cannot challenge your personal experience, and would abe a dishonoring fool to do so. I must trust that it is what you say it is, whether I know churches and leaders there or do not! (Great leaders do not make for great followers! Great followers do not make for great leaders! Such are mutualy exclusive considerations!) Your experience is uniquely yours. Should I accuse you of all manner of lies and wrong miotives in saying what you have? As you’ve done to me!? You have imposed a double standard. I have not! You are speaking truth from your own experience and I am doing the same from mine. Both are the truth and not in conflict with the other!

By the way, I am no defender of Kool Aid makers, sellers or drinkers! I mght well agree with you on those churches if I knew the particulars, and am not asking for them. However, rather than just “slam” LIFEST or criticize the,m I gave the reasons why I would not wish anyone I know to attend such events or pars of tsuch events! Right now, I believe LIFEST leaders are, in the wake of the death of Elizabeth Mohl, making and advertising and selling Kool Aid under the banner of Jesus Christ! And far too many people are drinking it! And to their literal and eternal peril! (See Ezekiel 33) And given what you know about the churches you attended in the Fox Valley, would you recommend that your friends attend those churches

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Teresa Jones said,

July 20, 2007 at 8:48 am

Badger Bugler: keep speaking!

One problem I have with this is that the Life Promotions people hide behind a veneer of Christianity when in fact it is a money-making machine. Nothing wrong with making money but not at the expense of safety and health.
I wanted to volunteer this year on the medical staff but found out that the medical director was an EMT! In previous years, an ER physician ran the show and his team did a fantastic job of “fixing broken thumbs” and anything else that came that way. Where was the medical team when all of this occurred? How fast was the response time? Did a nurse or doctor show up to take care of Elizabeth? My understanding is that she was in surgery for 6 hours so the surgeon at least thought she had a fighting chance. That means that the first few minutes after impact were critical in her care. In the broader picture, why was an ER doctor replaced with an EMT? Who’s idea was that? The person at Life Promotions who made THAT decision has a lot of accounting to do.

>DEAR TERESA: I was feeling like I was crying alone in the wilderness! Thank you for speeaking the truth you know from first hand experience!

YOU: Any Christian who believes this was “God’s plan” needs to get back to the bible.

> AND to those atheist who have joked about God not being a good catcher or saying “oops” and all other manner of hateful and ignorant garbage, the Christian Church must not forget, as you demonstrate, Teresa, that we are also an Old Testament Church called to do just as he instructed, and you are doing according to Ezekiel 33! God did not let Liz “slip from His hadns” or “fail to catch her”, either literally or figuratively (spiritually). He assigned that task to the men adn women around her, and “we” failed in that Ezekiel 33 duty! As I think you are saying, Teresa: “God didn’t do this! We did it! He didn’t let Liz down! We did We’re to blame! We ‘Christyians’! Attack us, but not God! He was not silent! He told us in Ezekiel what to do! We were silent! Her blood is not on His hands, but on ours!”

YOU: The book of Job shows us that “bad things happen to good people” (or as I like to say the “shit happens theory of the universe”). And usually it happens because people make the wrong decisions, not biblically based, that end up causing harm.

> I THINK I UNDERSTAND what you are saying, Teresa, though I wouldn’t have used “that” word. But I do feel what you feel in that respect. It seems to me that you, Teresa, see and feel and are trying to communicate (correct me if I am wrong, as I trust you will do in the spirit of truth and love) something that too many others (both here and at LIFEST) apparently do not: “Thousands were put at risk of serious injury and death, MANY PEOPLE WERE SERIOUSLY INJURED and NEARLY KILLED and A GIRL DIED! FOR GOD’S SAKE, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET YOU PEOPLE ANGRY AND MOVED OUT OF THE COMFORT ZONES OF YOUR COLD, HARD HEARTS AND MINDS AND VOICES TO TAKE ANY RIGHT ACTION AT ALL?! A GIRL DIED!

Now, Teresa, just imagine whether others will criticize your language and lambaste you. They seem quite intent on and capable of basting the Lamb of God, so there’s no reason we shold be surprised when they lambaste the lambs of that Lamb as He serves as Our Good Shepherd and theirs! They only refuse to follow Him! (As he said, “When they do it to you, remember that they did it to me first!”) They are more concerned with appearances and tone here than truth, so it will be interesting whether they let your words and tone go. I hope you understand I am not saying this in criticism of you, but wondering aloud about their ability to reason, see truth and process it all with wisdom and discernment. I didn’t like “a word” but I heard you speaking truth and drawing right conclusions, as flawed as I might think that moment! YOU GO, GIRL! (All respect and no sexism intended!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

globalizati said,

July 20, 2007 at 9:16 am

olvlzl,

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

> SADLY INTERESTING (but no surprise) that you seem to relish theological discussions but have little or no interest, wisdom or discernment to apply them to the things and facts and realities of life, which the Christian faith is to be all about! “Faith without works is dead!” “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind! And love your neighbor as you love yourself!” A lot of self love here, but too little for one’s “neighbor”! given your arguments so far here. The reason? Because you clearly you still think like a child and see in a mirror but darkly! You see the speck in my eye while missing the log in your own and that of the LIFEST “leaders”! Or just can’t see past your own to see whatever it is in mine and that of the LIFEST leaders!

In the end, such follishness is turning you all into advocates of a LIE-FEST!

olvlzl, no ism, no ist said,

July 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm

Badjer Bugler, you know not me.

YOU ARE CORRECT at least not by that anonymous name, though you may well be a LIFEST staffer whom I met then and now in sheep’s clothing!

Amen, qerohgfvadfjyiurgf (I can’t remember how to spell your name, and I don’t have the page up right now, but an eaarlier saved version!)!

But GIDDY-UP, if God directs! (You’re probably LOL right now!)

I’d probably resist being dragged back, but will go where God takes me! I will plead for ear plugs, though! To block out the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth!

I would have never picked any of that music, but a few of the artists I met seemed to be genuinely good people (whether Christian or not — just as you might well be a great person)! I went because my adult daughter invited me, as she was part of a leadership team of a youth group!

Safe travels, friend in matching ear muffs!

By the way Carol, this story was not posted YESTERDAY but tonight, as the following from the WBAY web link you provided reveals (and I comment at the end):

Oshkosh
Safety Device at Center of Air Glory Investigation

July 20, 2007 05:33 PM CDT

by Natalie Arnold

The Winnebago district attorney reveals what he believes is at the heart of the state’s probe. The DA says the Air Glory operator admitted a mistake was made.

That mistake, the District Attorney Christian Gossett says, involves this a D-ring on Air Glory that attaches the rider’s harness to the cables.

Sixteen year old Elizabeth Mohl died after falling from the ride Air Glory at Lifest.

Gossett wasn’t able to talk on camera, he still explained to Action 2 News what he saw and heard on the scene right after the accident.

He says Air Glory was using a D-ring. one. It had a spring action and a twist lock, but the DA is revealing now that the D-ring for Elizabeth Mohl was not locked.

The clip or gate, the DA says on Mohl’s D-ring was free to open at anytime. Gossett says Air Glory operator’s Gary Ross admitted the problem to him and other authorities. Ross discovered the unlocked when he rushed to Mohl after she fell to the ground.

It leaves many to speculate, especially those in the climbing community who rely on D-rings. Jason Schultz has been rock climbing for six years. “It’s an amazing set of circumstances but without that gate locked the possibility is there that the gate could get opened and something could get unclipped.”

As far as what specifically happened that is what the state Department of Commerce is trying to find out. What we do know from Winnebago County DA is there was a significant mistake.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If he did admit this, so be it. This resolves any further debate on that, perhaps.

Also, “accusations” and “controversy” comments by you are irrelevant, inasmuch as all previous posts preceded that public revelation. I cannot speak about conversations I’ve had with law enforcement officials or identify to whom they were with, but I can assure you (and don’t care who believes me or does not), I have spoken with the most critical “principles” in this investigation and would not have written anything at all that implied I did not know or that they had said something and I was ignoring it.

Finally, this revelation/admission does not change the issue of potential criminal liability for having failed or refused, on the part of LIFEST or AIR GLORY’S owner, to shut down the ride BEFORE Elizabeth died for other dangerous operation practices and violation of state mandated operational safety rules. These things were happening and LIFEST knew of it an failed/refused to do their duty to protect the life of guests in that realm!

My discussions with investigators, report and meeting have or will include all specific details, not conjecture, but based on observations and conversations and demands I made as the week progressed.

Live and learn, wait and see!
You know not now but please trust me!

One way or the other, investigators have already talked with me for more than two hours, plan to do so again next week, and my formal report will be seen by all who need to see it.

Badger,
This is really just sad and getting really pathetic. While I understand where you are attempting to come from the ways you are going about it are utterly horrific. You have absolutely damaged the goodness that LifeFest and LifePromo. stands for. If you feel you know the “truths” than you have done what is right by your standards and reported them. I do not want to refer back to the Matthew Principle of living but it is time for you to be self righteous and back off. The damage you have inexplicitly caused to those on the fence is terrible. It saddens me deeply and at times has made me rather angry to read your posts. I do feel that you may know what you are speaking of but it seems more and more like you are trying to glorify yourself not your actions or the “truth” as you put it. Why is it not enough that you went to the authorities. Why must you begin this rampage to bring down LifePromo? What have they done to you. Badger, I have grown up in this community with a family involved in both these organizations, I attened a Christian school along with many other children from these families and I have lent my help at LifeFest for numerous years. I have seen great things happen in many lives because of their experience at LifeFest. I do understand that their are people (and there always will be) who seem to hide behind christianity as a means to fit somewhere in life and feel like someone big. I, however do not believe and never will that any of these people willingly would allow such dangers to occur. I will not name names or events out of respect and honor. You are a grown man Badger acting like a heinous fool. I apologize for sounding so cruel but enough is enough. You have damaged everything you stand for. Continue on with the authorities as you see fit. It is your right as a human being to do so. Good luck in your ventures but please, please stop the angry lashing out at an organization and event that has saved many lifes and has the potential to save many more.

P.S. To Pundit

Also, to the extent that I may have misunderstood your meaning in earlier posts you made and those meanings were meant to be consistent with (not straight from, as you may be an atheist, but consistent with — as I am not “condemning you” for your choice to not follow Christ, if that is where you are at) what I understand to be biblical truth and instruction, I apologize for what may have caused insult and hurt.

I never intended to insult or hurt anyone here or anywhere. I hope you might understand how the fear of insulting and “hurting” people is what keeps and perhaps ket so many at LIFEST from also challenging right people in the midst of what was going wrong long before the Mosh Pit nightmare of Friday evening and the even greater nightmare of Elizabeth Mohl’s death on Saturday. People dance so gingerly arond speaking truth or reasonable opinions that they say nothing or say something but do nothing. They are good people who make some horrifically bad choices — sometimes no one “pays,” sometimes the ‘actor” pays, and sometimes, like at LIFEST, others end up paying for that “wall flower” approach to limb and life and death situations.

I will grant that you probably have the courage to stand up for your convictions, as I am trying to do (though I’m not saying you would do it in the same bumbling way I apparently have). Nut, I suspect you might be able to tell from as forceful as I am here that I was pretty “in your face” at LIFEST. For whatever reason, they chose to ignore it. But the problem is entirely theirs, and I am still trying to be part of a productive solution, as I think you might be, as well.

Also, again apologizing for any misunderstanding of your meaning, I was also trying to say, repeatedly, that I have and did go to the authorities (legal, etc.) at LIFEST and since. I am not Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacking over a lot of conjecture about what might have happened, might have been said and might have been done. I was there! I was involved in demanding action, They refused! And they even said they wouldn’t take time to assess it until they got over their shock! They needed to get over it right then and meet to discuss what had gone wrong and what they needed to do immediately all over that event to ensure not one more injury would occur because of what they might fail to do for lack of trying! Instead, they had a few paryers (which is great), then led a worship service that ended with a plea for vast amounts of money and on-going monthly donations to them, claiming they are poor and broke and losing money and in desperate need. That focus and “sensitivity” is, I believe, a highly probative revelation of what seems to be first and foremost in some of those people’s minds at the highest levels of LIFEST and LIFE!Promotions! (Notice the name is PROMOTIONS — amarketing and promotions — not Life Minsitries! These guys are concert and events promoters and public speakers whose behavior and attitudes as I witnessed them were primarily like secular artists and road crews and groupies and wanna bes and hangers on! Again, the leaders, not the volunteers, who seem to be most drawn in by the servants’ hearts of other volunteers and the great, reliable, Christian artists who perform ther, and the fellowship! Perhaps you had to be there to apprecaiate the crass self-centeredness and insenstitvitiy of it all. It caused a number, including volunteers, to toss down their shirts and walk out in disgust, even to refuse to hand out the pledge cards, pens and materials and the offering baskets! Perhaps you were there. Perhaps you saw what we saw. Perhaps you did not. But I did, and have never seen anything like it before, in nearly 50 years of life and 20 years working with and among many of the world’s best known and highly respected ministries.

Heck, even I have had a personal conflict with someone in a ministry, including losing a job, yet still spoke extremely highly of all of the work they do/did! I am not some seething generalizer or retaliator or disgruntled anything! Though I do think disgruntlement is underrated in certain cases, especially when the facts are about potential and actual injury and death to others. I just blew the whistle right there at LIFEST and warned them very vocally and specifically, as did others, and since, and many people find the sound of that whistle and trupet (Ezekiel 33) too shrill to want to look at the violations, avoid them and/or correct or be accountable for those actions then or now.)

I think, it now seems, that, perhaps, you do too. (And may have always felt that way, but I misunderstood you) Again, please accept my apology for that conclusion, if it was incorrect.

I also hope you appreciate why I say that it is incumbent upon me to still speak the truth to ALL I believe need to hear it:

Legal Authorities: to do their jobs

The Church: that they might consider whether to go or give to events and groups run by these people (for their own safety and that of others)

The Public: that all might examine and consider whether it is safe to do any such thing, whether at LIFEST or anywhere, and what “wisdom” they might apply to what they observe at any given place at any given time!

Again, I thank you for sharing your clarification and feelings, as well as your criticism about “libel.” I trust you might well do as I suggest and look up the definitions and laws, etc. After doing so, I would welcome any “refining fire” you might offer to burn the dross off of the life of gold I wish to live and reflect!

Respectfully,

Badger Bugler

Badger, i have no problem with you choosing to report the facts as you saw them, but i do have an issue with the following comments;

You are clearly a confused and decieved soul who also refuses to answer any questions about you!

Your ignorance and foolishness are no excuse for your inane comments.

For you to quote His word and claim I am obligated to obey it is not only the height of illiogic, by hypocrisy, schizophrenia and insanity!

Sad state of spiritual and intellectual affairs you seem to reveal in your life and that of the LIFEST team!

Shhh! Helmut! Quiet and let the authorities deal with what the’re doing to the Jews in Berlin! They’ll take care of it without your help!

you betray the unreasonable, illogical, unwise, undiscerning and uncritical nature of your thinking

YEAH, GLOBALI-NAZI

You are just a scoffer, critic and ostrich.

when you have also later stated

I never intended to insult or hurt anyone here or anywhere.

now either you do not understand how these comments are highly personal, insulting and hurtful (in which case most could be justly levelled at you – not so nice then, no?) or you need to consider that any truth you have spoken will be undermined by a statement of clear contradiction/untruth later.

Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Keep talkin’ talkin’ talkin’
Keep those trolls a squawkin’, Bloghide!
Don’t matter what you mention
Just feed ‘em more attention
Otherwise they’ll feel bad inside.
Bloghide!

Type ‘em up, send ‘em out
Send ‘em out, type ‘em up
Type ‘em up, send ‘em out
Bloghide! (Hyah!)
Post ‘em up, read ‘em out
Read ‘em out, post ‘em up
Post ‘em up read ‘em out
Bloghide!

Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Keep those comments comin’
Keep those keyboards hummin’, Bloghide!
Though your hands are bleedin’
Trolls all need their feedin’
Narcissus will be swellin’ up with pride.
Bloghide!

Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
Bloghide! (Hyah!)

GLOBALI-NAZI:

I’m not sure if even I missed that I somehow accused you of adultery. Also, for a preacher, you sure do not know Scripture. It was not the church authorities alone who screamed “Crucify him!”, but the crowd of citizens as well. I can understand how you could “lose faith” in a Gospel you apparently did not know or understand.

You also write:

“If Christians could really crop down their obsession with orthodoxy and the materialism of their churches to the central teachings of Jesus, maybe more fence-sitters would strive for to follow Jesus, isntead of being discouraged by the likes of you.”

Actually, you write two conflicting things. I am, along with our medical volunter friend, Teresa, among those saying just what you say about the crass commercialization and unChristian “money changing” that appears to be the hallmark of LIFEST’s attitude, if also behavior and policy!

You can’t decide on the gospel and your own faiyh, and you are just as confused about whether I am what you claim. I am encouraging the same consistency and biblical values you claim to espouse, yet you rail on me for it.

You are a very confused and inconsistent person!

You hate Christians when they speak tripe!
You hate Christians when they speak truth!
You hate Christians when they challenge others!
You hate Christians when they challenge each other!
You hate Christians…
You hate me…

Good luck with that. In a way, I was on your side!

And you hate that too!

Richard Wade, if you recorded that, complete with bull whip, you’d have a blog hit on your hands. Not sure about copyrite issues, though.

Good one Richard Wade! 🙂

troll,
Yes, I’m an ignorant, hateful person. You’ve caught me.

For the record, every person I love in this world is a Christian. My Christian friends would cringe at your methods–do you preach sermons the way you discuss online? If so, I’ve heard some people like you on the radio.

Cowboy!

I’m beginning to wonder if you’re an atheist posting as a Christian to make them look bad. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time.

*eats some more popcorn.

really? does this happen a lot? how immature……..

BADGER BUGLER = KRIS POTTS

Kris Potts,
Could you please devulge to all your listeners your legal battles. How many people have you sued or have attempted to sue you? Your background proves how truly sick and twisted you are as a human being.

Google is a true gift my friend. I think you have stated that before.

Not just Google, but the net itself, including your ability to research what you think you learned! Praise the Lord!

If you only gave half that thought to the facts of what happened at LIFEST! Amazing, though… Just like a guilty partyto want to make people look elsewhere and at things that have nothing to do with anything here. But, amazing for those who claim to care about Elizabeth, that you engage in such childish tactics in an attempt to get people to focus on everything but what happened there.

Interesting comments by Wes Halula at http://www.WLUK.com.

Hey, Wes, just what is “irrsponsible” about speaking the truth?

LIFEST sent Security volunteers a questionairre asking for such feedback, arriving just today, but can’t stand the thought that they actually got a direct answer (one that everyone else got). If they truly cared, as Halula claims, they would have taken that advice throughout the week and done something about it all!

All that research you’ve all done is impressive. Have you checked how many police and EMS calls were made to LIFEST this year?

Get relevant, folks!

Kris Potts is no fool and knows that all that “crap” you think you found is out there! Do you think he cares that you or anyone knows?

Not on your life! It is the truth about him in most ways, but you clearly do not know what is at the core of any of what you throw around like some sort of Scarlett letter he should be ashamed of…

Get a life! He wasn’t running Air Glory or LIFEST! He was trying to do what he was asked by them to do. But as with all things “inconvenient,” you all now want to trash the messenger, no matter what you know or don’t know!

Nothing unusual in that!

Sleep well, Wes Halula!

By the way, I don’t see Kris Potts suing anyone here over anything!

P.S. I see two of those “Kris Potts” cases are personal injury cases for being the victim of car accidents caused by others! One by a corporate truck and the other by a pastor’s daughter!

So just where is the “sick person” you try to portray in that?

Sounds like he appreciates and is concerned with the welfare of others since he might have suffered things himself. You, however, seem to pick on victims and defend perpetrators!

Sleep well with that heart of yours Carol and friends!

I bet Kris Potts sleeps better knowing he’s trying to help others while you’re trying to detroy him and defend those who allowed all that happened at LIFEST to go so wrong!

If nothing else, it just sounds like Kris Potts doesn’t suffer fools and liars and law breakers and bigots and anti-veteran, anti-woman oppressive child and adult endangering louses gladly!

That is his scarlet letter!

Hey, Carol and Global….

You think you know something, maybe you should be part of that press conference that Jeff McGregor was invited to take part in. Maybe Potts will even show up and take on your “hardballs” publicly!

So, whaddya think?

…you guys have the courage to ID yourself like Jeff did?

…you willing to “out” yourself like you think you did to Potts, who actually went public without your shame or threats and actually exposed himself to you and far worse than you (though you’re pretty bad excuses for either a Christian or atheist “of integrity,” like you want people to think you are)?

So, what’s your name and contact info?

Who do you work for?

How many times you sued someone?

How many people sued you?

Ever inhale?

Do you know what the definition of the word “is” is?

Wanna explain your 18 minutes of silence?

Didn’t we see you on the grassy knoll?

What’s your “testimony”?

Are you one of the people who are part of LIFE SPEAKING?

Ever spoken, sung or otherwise appeared for a Life Promotions and/or other event, including those that featured any LP staffer or affiliate, including Bob Lenz and “Happy Fun Timer” Wes Halula?

Were you among those who went back stage at LIFEST without passes?

How much did you pay to get into LIFEST?

Ever been in a car accident caused by another?

Did you have to pass a background check to be part of LIFEST?

Did Kris Potts?

If you think Kris Potts should have been screened out as a LIFEST security person, do you think they may not have screened out the other people he says were incompetent to do the jobs they had? HMMM? (If they “missed” Kris, maybe lots of other bad apples got into the LIFEST security bunch, don’t you suppose!)

Ever been hit head on by a pastor’s daughter running a light?

Ever been called a liar when you know you’ve told the truth?

Will you stand up for a young girl, her family and many others?

Or will you fall for the fallacies of LIFEST’S Wes?

Who will you serve this day?

Are you ready to pay the price for refusing to be a faithful watchman (Ezekiel 33)?

Are you ready to pay the price for trying to crucify a faithful watchman?

Seen this from the press release that’s posted online…

GO AHEAD! Take on Kris Potts! Doesn’t look like he has any problem with coming up with the right answer/response to two things…

1) “What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and yet lose his soul?”

2) “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” JIM ELLIOT

Also sounds that, apparently unlike you and too many others, Potts is able to embrace some of the hardest biblical values of all, sort of said like this:

“If, by supporting
the rights of mankind,
and of invincible truth,
I shall contribute to save
from the agonies of death
one unfortunate victim of tyranny,
or of ignorance, equally fatal,
his blessings and years of transport
will be sufficient consolation to me
for the contempt of all mankind.”

CESARE
Marchese di Beccarria,

as quoted, in 1770,
in the journals of future
President of the United States
John Adams

______

DANE COUNTY BASED LAW ENFORCEMENT CHAPLAIN
WHO WAS “LIFEST 2007” SECURITY VOLUNTEER
CALLS FOR BOYCOTT BY PUBLIC, ASSESSMENT BY OFFICIALS OF
OF AUGUST 5 WJJO “BAND CAMP” IN MADISON!

Long Time Secular & Christian Media Professional and Christian Missionary
Warned of Threats of Injury & Death Posed by
LIFE! Promotions’ LIFEST in Oshkosh,
Offers Evidence & Accounts to Support
Belief Injuries & Death at LIFEST Were “Very Easily Preventable”,
Repeats Warnings to Dane and Brown County Officials and Public,
Fearing High Risk of Danger May Exist at
August 5 “WJJO Band Camp” in Madison
and LIFE! Promotions’ Planned November
“Power of One” Event in Green Bay

22 JULY 2007 (Dane County, WI) – Following his experiences on “the inside” of the recent LIFEST “Christian” music festival in Oshkosh, where numerous attendees were injured by violence at concerts and a Menasha High School student killed by admitted operator error that led to equipment failure, a Dane County, Wisconsin based law enforcement chaplain who served as a security volunteer at the annual event is calling for a boycott of all events sponsored by LIFE! Promotions pending the outcome of all law enforcement and civil investigations and actions relating to the group.

Kris Potts, and ordained minister and long-time secular and ministry media professional who has worked in staff and leadership positions for many of the world’s best known Christian ministries, says that during the five day event he worked approximately 80 hours providing volunteer security services and had a “unique insider’s view” of the event as part of LIFEST’S so-called anti-violence security “Strike Team” – a group consisting primarily of men, all recognizable for the distinct yellow baseball caps they wore emblazoned with the words LIFE! Promotions Security. (The volunteers can be seen in many of the pictures published online by the Appleton Post-Crescent and Oshkosh Northwestern.)

Potts is also calling on authorities in Wisconsin’s Dane County and Brown County to reassess plans for guest security and safety at the upcoming WJJO Band Camp at Madison’s Alliant Energy Center’s Willow Island and LIFE! Promotions’ Power of One youth concert festival scheduled for November at Green Bay’s Resch Center near Lambeau Field. Potts says he has already put in calls to key Dane County officials connected to the event there, and that he’ll be trying to contact other law enforcement and community leaders about the threat he believes the events may pose to public health and safety in both communities.

According to Potts, “beginning from the moment I arrived at the fairgrounds I became concerned with a number of things I observed about LIFEST operations and security issues.” Potts says that he repeatedly shared his concerns with senior LIFEST leaders, including Founder/President Bob Lenz, beginning that first night and throughout the week. Potts also says that Lenz and his guests were among the first to violate stated LIFEST security policies.

In each case, Potts says, LIFEST leaders made a wide variety of excuses and refused to ac in a way that he believes would certainly have avoided all injuries and the death of 16-year-old Menasha student Elizabeth Mohl on the “Air Glory” construction crane-based cable swing ride. Mohl fell from the top of the ride as her friend pulled the rip cord release, when, according to published admissions by the ride owner, Gary Ross, a “D-ring” failed because it had not been properly closed by ride operators.

In spite of the admission, Potts says he believes that the fundamental question has always been, “Could those injuries and death have been prevented? How? And why?”

In addition to his other efforts detailed herein, Potts said he expressed concerns to LIFEST leaders about Air Glory operations, and that other security volunteers said they had done the same. Not only did LIFEST leaders reportedly have cause to shut down the ride before Mohl’s death, Potts says he believes that it was an absolute necessity in that case and that he would have done so. Among the things Potts saw and spoke with security leaders about was that Air Glory was operating when rain was falling and lightening was flashing. [NOTE: Contact for photographic evidence, which also includes shots of operators looking away from the ride while riders were airborne, all of which violates state laws regarding mandatory operator safety procedures.]

According to Potts, he’s helped sponsor and direct dozens of such Christian events “from 600 people to 80,000” all around the world, including work as Resident Director of Media Relations for the 1992 Billy Graham Crusade in Moscow, Russia. That was the only “crusade” ever held in the (former) Soviet Union by the world-renowned evangelist, whom Potts served as a missionary. Potts has also served in media and security positions for nearly a dozen Promise Keepers events, including the 1997 gathering on the Washington DC Mall, where he helped direct security efforts for the international media and members of Congress in attendance. [NOTE TO EDITORS: See attached biography.]

“I and many others repeatedly told LIFEST leaders that they needed to not only enforce their stated rules against violence at the concerts, but that they had an obligation to do everything reasonable and possible to ensure that everyone at the event was safe,” Potts says.

Invited to the event by his adult daughter, who also served as a volunteer on the Strike Team, Potts says she also informed him that at least two members of a Madison-based church youth group attending the event were injured at a concert he tried to convince LIFEST to stop if they were not going to enforce their written anti-violence policies. Potts says another incident on the opening night was “an extremely bad sign” to him.

“The first night,” Potts says, “a Sun Prairie High School (SPHS) physical education teacher, Lyndi Mittlesteadt, attempted to get LIFEST security directors to investigate a man who appeared to have been on the grounds without a parking permit or event pass, had parked at their campsite and was, in the post-midnight moonlight, lurking and leering into the tents of young women and other event guests. She was repeatedly ignored and made to feel ashamed by two security directors at THE EDGE stage where she had sought out help.”

Potts says that Security Director Stephanie Wasinger repeatedly ignored and refused to help the teacher and to respond to his requests for Wasinger to do so. He says another security director – both she and Wasinger were the only ones there with radios to Security HQ (which was being monitored by the Oshkosh Police Department officers on site – also refused to help, instead talking with a performing artist’s team member. Eventually, he finally took over and addressed the matter personally, asking for the second director’s radio to do so. “In fact, Potts says, “I only pressed to deal with it when the more senior of the two security people at the site said, ‘Go find someone else with a radio!’ even though she had one.”

In spite of the fact that trained law enforcement officers – both Oshkosh Police Officers and two active duty Wisconsin officers serving as leaders at LIFEST’S Security HQ – were on site and listening to his call for assistance, Potts says, he had to beg LIFEST leaders to send someone, anyone to investigate or help him investigate the reported threat. Finally, three golf carts of teens were sent to help him, nearly all saying they were too scared and didn’t know what to do. No LIFEST leader ever responded to the pleas for help made by the teacher or Potts, he says.

Only on arriving back home and doing some research did Potts learn the full identity of the SPHS teacher. As it happens, she had previously worked for the very church-based Madison school his own children had attended, and whose two students his daughter told him were injured on Friday night at THE EDGE stage during a concert by the Christian group SKILLET. On that night, security at THE EDGE stage was directed by the same woman who had refused to assist the SPHS teacher and Potts with the “peeping Tom” report.

Potts says that the SKILLET concert was one he had been warned about almost the moment he arrived on site early Wednesday evening, the first night of the five-day annual event. He says Main Stage and Strike Team Security Director Stan Alt, of Kaukauna, had promised him in writing that LIFEST had a what amounted to a “no violence, bounce up and down and shake your fist but no body slamming, pushing and head banging or violence of any sort under any circumstances or your ejected from the park” sort of policy. (See attached e-mail text.)

After returning to Alt from the first concerts at THE EDGE, Potts, his daughter and other security volunteers reported to Alt what had happened and warned him that volunteers were already hurt and much worse was sure to come. The volunteers even identified certain perpetrators and warned Alt that they were sure to be the most trouble as the week went on if not stopped. Alt promised prompt, decisive and uncompromising adherence to the non-violence policy as written, as numerous volunteers said “I didn’t sign up for this [violence and abuse],” Potts says.

“Imagine our shock when a groups of kids approached Alt at the Main Stage, about an eighth of a mile from THE EDGE stage, and pleaded with him to let them continue their violent behavior,” Potts recalls. “Then imagine the shocked looks that went around the security team as we heard Alt negotiate a deal with the group – led by a guy we’d previously identified to Alt as ‘Orange Crush’ because of his size, red haired Mohawk and T-shirt bearing the drink company’s logo – to allow them to do every manner of thing in violation of the rules.”

“I turned to my daughter and others and said, ‘The boss has just signed a deal with the Devil’,” Potts says. All of the volunteers agreed in one way or another, Potts says. That was opening night.

By Friday afternoon, the violence at THE EDGE stage had gotten so out of hand, according to Potts, that an adult came up behind a student, unseen, quickly put the young man in a behind-the-back arm lock, lifted him up, flipped him heels over head and violently head slammed him to the ground. In response, he stepped in an instructed the man to back away from the student and called over other security volunteers to his right. At that moment, Potts was struck on the back. He turned to find that it was LIFEST Security Director Stephanie Wasinger, screaming at him and ordering him not to stop anything, including that act, even if it occurred again. Following an exchange in which Potts refused to follow the instruction, reportedly telling Wasinger that the man engaged in what he considered a violent and potentially deadly criminal act and that he would not stand by for that or anything like it, Wasinger (approximately 20 years old) repeatedly screamed at Potts (46) and ordered him to do as she said.

“I told her as respectfully and as forcefully as I could, in no uncertain terms, that people were going to get injured and maybe die at LIFEST if I or anyone followed her orders and that I refused to do so,” Potts says. “To that, she pulled out her ID and said ‘I am a Director with LIFEST and you will do as I tell you!'”

“I responded by saying that the only order she could possibly give that I would obey was to order me off the site to run it as she wished, since I had orders when I signed up that no violence would be allowed and I was to stop it,” Potts says. “She told me ‘You’ll do what I tell you to do!’ to which I said, ‘Not on my watch! The only way you do this your way is to have me taken out of here or relieve me of my duties!’ She responded by saying, ‘Give me your [Strike Team] hat and leave now!’ And I did just that!”

“I wanted it clear in no uncertain terms that what they were doing was dangerous and deadly, as guests and as Security Directors and event operators. And I immediately reported it to the Oshkosh Police, Event Leader Tammy, whose last name I do not have available; Senior Security Director Tom Mangin; Security Director Corey Wasinger (whose last name I did not know at the time) and Security Director Stan Alt,” Potts says. “I was told I did the right thing and it would be corrected. In fact, it was not, and they never did anything to change anything.”

“In fact,” Potts says, “Stephanie Wasinger was still in charge of Security at THE EDGE that night when six ambulance calls were made and dozens more people were injured and hospitalized, including Security volunteers, because no one, including Wasinger, changed a thing! And Neenah Youth Pastor Jeff McGregor, on staff with First United Methodist Church (FUMC) of Neenah and Director of ‘The Hub’ music ‘ministry’ café founded by FUMC there, was directing events from the stage and persistently failed or refused to do anything reasonable or proper to attempt to stop the violence,” he adds.

“I have worked for, with or alongside literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of local, regional, national and international Christian ministries, ministers and performing artists in the past 22 years,” Potts says, “and I have seen thousands of devoted, prayerful, sensitive, concerned and compassionate Christians and non-Christians who show and share with each other concern, love, fellowship, friendship and joy, across all ethnic and denominational lines. I saw that at LIFEST, too!”

“But what I have never, ever seen before,” Potts claims, “is what I consider such a widespread, seemingly institutional, crass, reckless, negligent, wicked and unapologetic violation of every good and right principle of reasonable human, personal, civil, business, religious and ministry conduct as I saw among the senior leaders at LIFEST.”

“In all of it, I can think of only two or three people who stand out, shining lights amidst the terrible darkness, and will gladly name them when I know their full names and positions. But Val and Chuck know who they are, and I praise them to heaven right now! As I do all of the volunteers and performers and attendees I know and saw being salt and light and the heart and hands of Jesus Christ to each other.”

“I must speak of that good by and within those people,” Potts says, “but I must also point out the terrible (mis)conduct of LIFEST leaders. This is not about rehashing the past, Potts says, it’s about preventing even more potential injuries and death in the future under the willful and reckless ‘leadership’ of the LIFEST people who refused to listen to reason, exercise due diligence and do their moral, ethical, spiritual and legal duties at LIFEST 2007.”

“If you want to know why I feel so strongly about this,” Potts says, “you only need to read Ezekiel 33. That is the call God has placed on our lives, that is the call I try to answer in whatever I do wherever I am, whether as father, friend, chaplain, journalist or just citizen, but always as Christian!”

“That LIFEST refused to respond to the warning is now to the enduring regret of many and pain to the few, particularly Elizabeth Mohl’s family,” Potts says. “But others and I sounded the trumpet and spoke the watchman’s warning to LIFEST leaders and they refused to respond in a timely or proper manner.”

“With LIFEST organizers planning to return to Green Bay in November for their annual Power of One event at the Resch Center and Skillet set to be in Madison on August 8,” Potts says, “I can do no less now. This is not about being vindicated about something in the past, but dealing with it fully and openly, and ensuring that it doesn’t repeat itself in the future.”

“An unashamed ‘born again’ evangelical Christian,” Potts says that he is not interested in stopping any legitimate “work of God,” as some have already accused him of trying to do.

“If someone thinks that someone so fallen and sinful and human as I have the ability to stop any legitimate work of God,” Potts says, “the they are following a very small God, because, like the Apostle Paul said of himself, I am the smallest and most meaningless of men.”

“I want to make sure that such great things do happen,” Potts insists, “but that they happen with the greatest and most moral, ethical, legal and biblically consistent care, compassion, good will and safety we can all apply to every such undertaking!”

Potts says that there was not one thing that could and should have been done a LIFEST that would have cost one penny more to do. “Just taking a stand and saying ‘Stop!’ costs only the courage and conviction and time and effort to do just that!”

“And even if it did cost money,” Potts says, “there was and is no cost too great to invest in avoiding all of those injuries and death or even one more in the future!”

Potts says he was told when he arrived on site that LIFEST security for the week was and would be “woefully understaffed.” In response, he suggested that they hire a private security firm to supplement the volunteers. That suggestion was ignored. So, particularly after seeing the way that LIFEST ignored threats to sleeping campers, he offered to stay the rest of the week to work around the clock shifts, including overnight patrols.

“Until the authorities, parents, kids, churches and our communities can be sure that LIFE! Promotions and others are truly equipped and committed to do the right thing and do it under all circumstances,” Potts adds, “I am imploring everyone to not attend their events or any event, whether under the banner of ‘Ministry’ or ‘Christian’ or ‘Just Plain Fun’!”

And as a long time law enforcement chaplain, I do not want to see a single LEO or EMT injured while trying to “protect and serve” anywhere because we – as Christians in particular and citizens in general – failed or refused or neglected to do our watchman’s duty!”

“These past two weeks I’ve seen too many people walk by ignoring and chastising the injured along the wayside,” Potts laments, “both in the midst of imminent dangers and in the days since, offering all manner of lame justification for avoidance and evasion and injury and death. I’m speaking to gently when I say that I am utterly fed up with it.” He says he would “like to shout from the rooftops and sound stages of the state the phrase made famous by the news anchor in the Academy Award winning movie Network [written by Paddy Chayevsky], but that [his] Christian convictions keep [him] from doing so.”

“We don’t need to talk about the good Samaritan’s in the world,” he says, “though they are much needed and terribly under praised and under appreciated, if we will instead do the watchman’s duty of seeing and warning of danger and moving to stop it before it does its damage!”

Potts is challenging law enforcement leaders, government agency representatives, elected officials, venue owners, performing artists, church leaders, event sponsors, promoters and participants to meet to review and agree on all such plans – including discussions about police and security, medical service and liability coverage, as well as reimbursement for the cost of such services – in much the same way as Madison leaders have done with respect to the annual State Street Halloween and Mifflin Street Block Party.

Potts points to an internet blog entry by one woman, identifying herself as “Teresa Jones,” who claims to have been a medical volunteer with LIFEST as the reason he believes that officials may want to pay particular attention to events run by LIFE! Promotions in any community.

“One problem I have with this is that the Life Promotions people hide behind a veneer of Christianity when in fact it is a money-making machine,” the blogger wrote. “Nothing wrong with making money but not at the expense of safety and health.”

“I wanted to volunteer this year on the medical staff but found out that the medical director was an EMT! In previous years, an ER physician ran the show and his team did a fantastic job of “fixing broken thumbs” and anything else that came that way. Where was the medical team when all of this occurred? How fast was the response time? Did a nurse or doctor show up to take care of Elizabeth? My understanding is that she was in surgery for 6 hours so the surgeon at least thought she had a fighting chance. That means that the first few minutes after impact were critical in her care. In the broader picture, why was an ER doctor replaced with an EMT? Who’s idea was that? The person at Life Promotions who made THAT decision has a lot of accounting to do.”

Potts says in the early overnight hours following the SKILLET concert at LIFEST, one family approached him as they were departing the event, having packed up their belongings to leave in utter disgust over what had happened at the SKILLET concert. During a 20 minute visit, they told him that their daughter had broken her thumb, that it had been caused by the violence at the concert, which sent a security volunteer among others to the hospital, injured students from a Madison church group, and sent dozens more seeking medical care. This family says they were among many turned away, even though they were told her thumb was likely broken. They told Potts that LIFEST’S medical staff said they were not trained or equipped to deal with such things and that they would simply need to leave and find medical attention on their own.

While Potts says he has no personal knowledge about any past problems with WJJO events, he now feels that the appearance of numerous groups, including SKILLET, at its Band Camp at Willows Island on the grounds of the Alliant Energy Center this coming August 5 now “necessitates a review” of WJJO’s safety plan and procedures for their that event.

“I believe from first hand experience and involvement and my own efforts at LIFEST that all of those injuries and the death of Elizabeth Mohl were very easily preventable,” Potts asserts.

“Sadly enough,” Potts concludes, “what happened to dozens at THE EDGE stage and the Air Glory ride at LIFEST proves that you can trust no one but yourselves to look out for your own lives, and that you can’t be sure that they are listening to other people asking them to do so in the midst of obvious threat that guests may not know about.”

“Assume nothing! And trust your better angels above all others!” n

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From : Stan | Block Sender
Date : Sat, Jun 09, 2007 04:22 PM

Hello Kris,

My name is Stan Alt and I am more or less in charge of setting up the volunteers for stage security. I understand you are looking at helping us out this year. In order to help you make your decision, I have a few statements I need to make.

For Life Promotions we in security follow a restrained physical interaction policy. Even though Lifest has gotten bigger through the years, the people attending have kept their basic Christian principles and those few who do erupt into a less friendlier moment are not encouraged by the crowd to escalate the situation, but instead, they feel the crowds displeasure over their disrespectful actions. For this reason we are much less likely to need to get physical with any festival attendee.

The area where I think you would be an invaluable asset would be our most likely area of disrespectfulness with others. Inevitably, the teens who worship by moshing are the most likely candidates for special attention. They do not intend to do harm to others, but as a result of getting caught up in worship the way they do, it tends to overflow into the rest of the audience.

Rather than trying to eject the festival attendees, we are putting up a human wall between those who are less exuberant and the more excited. These are our Strike Teams. Each team has a leader and at least 8 members. If God so wills we will have enough people to have three teams. Their objective is to be a wall, allowing the exuberant to jump up and down, shake their heads, throw their arms up in the air – BUT – NOT ALLOW a side to side motion which causes others to push back and people being knocked off their feet and possibly being injured. The ONLY time a security person is allowed to come into physical contact is when a patron is doing something harmful to him/her self and/or to others. This judgment is to be made by the Strike Team leader whenever possible. Our experience with this process at Power of One in Green Bay has shown that a formidable LOOKING presence with a kind smiling facial expression and friendly attitude works quite well.

The Strike Teams work in the evening from 5 to close, Wednesday thru Saturday. Not all of the time, but during certain performances. If you are willing to accept direction from those of us who are less trained in the ways you have been trained and can give me 4.5 hours on the days you have time to attend, I would encourage you to fill out the online application putting “Stage Security Strike team” and “Stan Alt” in Step 3. If you can only work one 4.5 hour shift which will be broken up into multiple segments, we will take you. Life Promotions will forward the information I need to me, so you can use the application process that works best for you:

http://www.lifest.com/2007%20Pages/volunteers.htm

I’m sure I will find you to be a very valuable asset. The more days you can work the better! The application gives you an opportunity to “write in” the time you will be available to us. I use this to do the scheduling. So please, get this done as soon as possible if you have made a decision to join us.

Your daughters are welcome to join us as well. I will have some women who will be working in the Strike Teams, but that will only come about after I have personally interviewed them. A Strike Team member will need to stand a tough line at times and stay together in order to have the effectiveness of a team. This is not the best place for those who are not physically capable to withstand the pressure and the smell and sweat of those who may not of showered for a couple of days. :o)

I do have some need for other stage security persons that may suit them better. Much less physical and more informative positions like back stage Grandstand gate, Cafe and Happy Fun Time Lounge stages. It depends on a number of factors, but I would really appreciate their volunteering. If I find out the hours you will all be there, (on the application) very soon, I can schedule your off time to their off time (or at least try to) so that you can enjoy the other areas of Lifest together. they must also put down my name and stage security in step 3 of the application or they will not be on stage security. If any of you wish to work a different area, please DO NOT put stage security or Stan Alt in step 3.

Guess this has covered the basics for Stage Security. If you have a desire to be put on a gate checking wristbands, working with traffic/parking or other areas of security instead, let me know. All areas have need for more people and each area has a blessing for those that serve. It’s up to you, to let me know.

An accumulation of four 4.5 hour shifts will get you a full event ticket. Working a 4.5 hour shift in any particular day will get you free admission for that day. If you work a total of six shifts you will receive a free ($10 value) Parking Pass for the volunteer parking lot on the festival grounds. Please keep in mind that if you work Stage Security, your shifts will not be in 4.5 hour blocks, but will be broken up into the time frame that performances are running on the stages. I know it doesn’t sound like you get a bunch of perks for being a volunteer with us. The rewards are really seen in the faces of those we serve and I believe, are added to our treasure in heaven.

HOWEVER!

In addition, separate from Life Promotions and/or Lifest, some of us leaders in the Security arena have put together a process that we use to feed our Security volunteers while they are on the clock. Last year we had all kinds of good food including a variety of meat sandwiches, fruits, vegetables, chips, soft drinks and desserts. I liked the hot beef and corn on the cob the most. So, this means that you as a member of any Security position at Lifest will be fed while on the clock as one of our ways for saying thank you.

Thank you for your inquiry, hope I get to meet you personally and if you have questions — please ask me.

Grandstand Stage
Security Director

Stan Alt
N2211 County Road J
Kaukauna, WI 54130

Hm: 920.766.2232
Cell: 920.915.7826

ALTERMAR@NEW.RR.COM

(Josh 24:15 KJV)

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,
choose you this day whom ye will serve;
whether the gods which your fathers served
that were on the other side of the flood,
or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land
ye dwell: but as for me and my house,
we will serve the LORD.

Recommended Boycott of All Events Involving LIFE! Promotions Speakers, Bob Lenz & “Christian” Band SKILLET

PASTOR/CHAPLAIN CALLS FOR
AND RECOMMENDS SERIOUS RECONSIDERATION
OF INVOLVEMENT IN and/or BOYCOTT OF
LIFE! PROMOTIONS EVENTS & SPEAKERS
AND ALL EVENTS INVOLVING
THE “CHRISTIAN BAND “SKILLET”!

Unless and until each of these groups confirms that they will provide legitimately trained, qualified, licensed, authorized and constituted security teams, I recommend that people planning or thinking of being part of such events in any fashion seriously reconsider their participation and, indeed, not attend and/or boycott the events! In light of the widespread violations of all reasonable and professional security practices at LIFEST 2007 by LIFE! Promotions employees and leaders, we strongly urge that people avoid any and all events in which the following speakers, as well as the “Christian” band SKILLET, are involved:

http://www.lifespeaking.com/lifespeaking/calendar/default.asp

Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’

I want to apologize on behalf of all Christians that havent gone to the nut house or belong there, for the comments of badger buglar. Not all Christians are cold hearted and known for what they are against instead of what they are for. This guy is obviously lonely and has a lot of free time. He apparently gets an a rush from arguing and finding causes to be against. Please pray for him no matter what beliefs you have. He is someone who needs help. May the God of Love invade his heart. May the God of Compassion invade his soul. Matt. 5:44
John 13:35, Matt. 26:52
SLANDER – A false defamation (expressed in spoken words, signs, or gestures) which injures the character or reputation of the person defamed; distinguished from libel. (The ‘Lectric Law Library’s Lexicon On Slander)
Proverbs 10:18,19,20,21,23,25
Romans 14:10, Matt. 5:43-48
May the Love of Christ be with you Kris Potts. I pray that whatever you are angry about in life, whatever you are searching for, that you will find it.
May the PEACE of Christ be with you.

Sadly, you do with God’s Word what Satan did in the heavenlies and in the Graden, then with Jesus during the 40 days: you quote it to chastise people for rightesousness in an effort to tempt and lure them into sin.

Satan quoted Scripture, bur Jesus countered him with, “But is is also written that man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word which proceeds for from the mouth of GOD!” Not some words, but every; not man, but God!

As so many do, you intentionally avoid “the full counsel of Scripture” — which includes Ezekiel 33, Christ’s “Lord, Lord!” parable, Cain and Abel and “am I my brother’s keeper?”, the story of the “good Samaritan,” and so much more — in an effort to lure and tempt others to transgress and sin against God and man. JUST WHAT Bible are you reading from/ A sort of Thomas Jefferson Bible? With everything but the words of Jesus (and, in your case, Proverbs, or one proverb) excised?

What is so amazingly clear here is that you, one of many words before I ever arrived on the scene, proclaiming all manner of opinion over something with no personal knowledge of them (or do you know, but are hiding that because you are also culpable and liable?), violating the very Scripture you site as a command for my silence.

Taken to it’s logical conclusion, yor citation of Scripture if applied as you demand means that God commanded all the propehts to sin/transgress against God Himself and His own Word and His people. After all, following as many as 40 years and more of proclaiming very lengthy passages from Sccripure to all sorts of cities, nations and religious authorities, they certainly spoke many words.

But, as with almost everything here, you fail to make or honor such critical biblical distinctions — the same lack of intellect, wisdom, discernment, reason and care so many were injured and worse at LIFEST!

And you refuse to address the facts of the case! They are no more or less true depending upon where they are spoke: at LIFEST, on the net, with my pastor, with your pastor, to an investigator… It is either true or untrue. So deal with it, David! The sinner is you! The transgressor is you. Deal with the facts! (And they are no more or less true based on whatever decision someone else makes about how to address it, whether in a church, civil, peronal or criminal context. God knows what I know to be true. One person with God is a majority.

I am not afraid of bullies like you. You are being used of Satan, a minion of Satan and/or Satan in all of these. Yo avoid truth, cover up and speak lies and ignorant “biblical prattle.” It is not I or Kris Potts or anyone who distracts from the death of Elizabeth Mohl, as Comedy Legend Wes Halula proclaimed to WLUK! It is he and you and LIFEST that are doing that, pointing only to me and Potts so that people will not look at her death and the role he believes they appear to have had in it! THE HYPOCRISY IS AS PLAIN AS THE NOSES ON YOUR FACES! Prattling Pinnochios, all!

So, once again…

JUST WHAT ROLE DID YOU HAVE AT LIFEST and/or WITH LIFE PROMOTIONS and/or ANY AFFILIATED ORGANIZATION and/or MINISTRY?!!!!

If you’d like to open your big mouth publicly, I’d be happy to debate you publicly any time and any place with cameras rolling as we tackle the question not of what happened and how, as that’s well documented (though I’d be happy to do that, as well), but whether and why and who and how LIFEST should and could have prevented it all; the practical, legal and biblical reasons and ways they were obligated to do so; how and why they failed; whether they can/should ever be trusted again with any event, LIFEST, Power of One or otherwise; and what they plan to change to not only earn that trust, but to honor that trust!

But I’m betting such words as honor and trust and duty and obedience and watchman and trumpeter aren’t in that Bible you seem to be using or the dictionary you pulled out to rail about words like euphemism!

As always, you remain obsessed with style over substance!

How’s that working for you now?

How’s that gonna work for you on the day of God’s eternal judgment!

And I bet that Wes Halula, Bob Lenz, “Pastor” Jeff McGregor and others you know will not be occupying the judgment seat, speaking of how God is distracting people from the death of Elizabeth Mohl, or whipping out their checkbooks or awards for “best Christian music festival in the country”! I don’t think will be much impressed with that! And I bet Kris Potts won’t be in that seat! And I know nothing he has done will much impress God, either! It is all vanity of vanities and striving after wind! And he knows it! And He knows it! And you do not!

“For God is no respecter of persons!”

P.S.

I this wasn’t so serious, your blatant hypocrisy would be exceedingly laughable!

Wes Halula blasts Potts saying, essentially, “He’s reckless and irresonsible and insensitive for distracting everyone from the death of Elizabeth Mohl!”

Utterly incredible how these last few posts do just what Wes Halula criticized — and in spades!!!

You all want everyone to look a me and Potts and totally ingnore LIFEST!

Just how many phone calls and degrees of separation did it take for you all to get in touch with each other after the story broke on WGBA to flame the truth tellers?!

You guys are the most un-Christian, unbiblical, unethical and insensitive deceivers I have ever met! And it is clear from the recent posts that many of you have links to LIFEST!

As for those who bring Potts’ daughters’ names into this, perhaps you might want to do some research and find out how many members of their church youth group were injured at THE EDGE concert featuring SKILLET!

Simply put, you are pathetic excuses for human beings! (And Christians!) And with the crap you spew you vicimize victims, not knowing one fact about the things of which you speak.

P.S. Since you think one’s name on a lawsuit or police report makes them reprehensible, without examing what happened therein, you must really hate attorneys, judges and police officers, who are involved in virtually ever law suit ever undertaken! Too bad for the Christian and ethical atheist folks who stand up for their rights!

And pathetic as you are in applying your “logic” and “reason” and “spiritual wisdom” to this all, I can’t wait to see how you will treat the survivors left behind following Elizabeth’s death if they ever had to file suit, or someone, like an insurance company on their behalf, to rightfully recover for the their immeasurable loss through her death!

You people simply do know how to think, reason, feel or live, in spirit, faith or truth!

And if you really want to know the truth about Potts’ divorce, ask his daughters about a reconiliation and restoration experience they witnessed.

You don’t know the truth, you don’t care about the truth, you spew everything but the truth, you can’t handle the truth!

“You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

(So, what’s the word count now, bean counters? The truth count is through the roof! But not the “truth” spoken by you!)

Here…

Let’s save you all the time:

Appeal of Ruling RE: Illegal Actions of Employer

2004CV001659 05-28-2004
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. WI Labor & Industry Review Com

Attempt to Collect Unpaid Wages from “Christian” Employer

2004CV000767 03-11-2004
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. James Ewing et al

Attempt to Recover Damages for Jessica from Dr. Who Totalled Her Car

2003SC000333 06-25-2003
Green Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. Gregory Medis MD

Changed Venue for Above

2003SC000136 01-06-2003
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts et al vs. Gregory Medis MD et al

Attempt to Collect Unpaid Wages from “Christian” Employer (Related to Ewing, above)

2003CV003072 10-13-2003
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. J Charles Sterin et al

Claim for Auto Accident Caused by Daughter of Local Lutheran Pastor
(Hmmm, there’s some values, Fox Valley “Christians” — that a Lutheran
Pastor whose daughter was ticketed for totalling a car and injuries would
not act biblically and so much as pay for the ER bill, though bleeding
from the head!)

2003CV003062 10-13-2003
Dane Closed Potts, Kris A – Kris A Potts vs. State Farm Mutual Auto Ins Co et al

For lost wages, libel, threats, etc. Against Former
Employer Who Discriminated Against Woman, Veteran, “Lesbian”
for whom Potts was shown to rightly fight – no recovery for retaliation)

2003CV000489 02-14-2003
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. Magna Publications Inc et al

Appeal re:
Employer Who Discriminated Against Woman, Veteran, “Lesbian”
for whom Potts was shown to rightly fight – no recovery for retaliation)

2001CV000826 03-26-2001
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs WI Labor & Industry Review Comm et al

Upaid medical bills from accident caused by Lutheran Pastor’s daughter

1999HL000026 03-12-1999
Dane Filed Only Potts, Kris A – Meriter Hospital Inc vs Kris A Potts

Auto accident and physical injuries and stroke caused/confessed by other driver. Case closed due to bankruptcyy of corporation and insurance carrier

1999CV000465 02-24-1999
Dane Closed Potts, Kris Arthur – Kris Arthur Potts et al vs. Safety-Kleen Corp et al

Employer Who Discriminated Against Woman, Veteran, “Lesbian”
for whom Potts was shown to rightly fight – no recovery for retaliation)

1999CV000337 02-10-1999
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs Magna Publications

Small Unpaid Legal Bill for Promised Pro Bono Services re: Divorce

1998SC012131 11-25-1998
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Relles Meeker & Borns vs Kris Potts

Unpaid Bill Due to Inability to Work following Feb 28, 1996 Accident (Safety Kleen)

1998SC000216 01-06-1998
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Allied Digital Technologies Inc vs Kris Potts

Unpaid Debts, Etc.

1995SC002519 03-02-1995
Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs Lisa Haas

Divorce

1989FA001004 07-12-1989
Dane Closed Potts, Kris Arthur – Lisa Ann Potts Vs Kris Arthur Potts

THERE YOU HAVE IT!

Defending others, responding to a divorce he deserved, ensuring his own right to recover for bodily injury!

Elizabeth Mohl’s parents are divorced! Will you do this to them if/when it might be necessary to take action to recover for their loss? Can’t wait to see how you try to make a distinction!

Tre Pathetique!

Hey, Pundit!

There is a huge difference between a rumor and a question asked and left unanswered.

Also, you are not the first to deny such — others quickly shown to have lied.

My apology was not a license or open door for future abuse!

Like LIFEST, you “major in the minors and minor in the majors”!

I bet you would have complained about the sound of the trumpets and tone of voice of those outside the walls of Jericho — ever comfrotable in your easy chair, scratching away on your stone tablet or reed scroll, ever ignoring the message being proclaimed! “And don’t care what is about to happen! I don’t like the tone of your voice! And tune up your trumpet! Empty that spit valve! You were divorced, so I don’t need to listen to you!”

Boo hoo hoo!

I can just imagine what you would have said to John the Baptist, Moses, Ezekiel, Jesus and Paul! Luther!

You don’t have to like a thing I say or the way I say it! You are not called by God to like it, but to consider it and take warning! If you don’t want to take heed, then …

Read Ezekiel 33 and Jesus’ “Lord! Lord!” promise!

“Woe to you scribes and hypocrites, you heal the wounds of my people lightly, saying [‘Liar! Liar!’ and] ‘Peace! Peace!’ where there is no [liar or] peace!”

Good luck with that!

I long ago quit caring whether you took offense at the truth I have spoken. And that truth is not my God … my God is a God of truth!

Deal with it!

If you think I don’t suffer fools gladly, I can’t wait to see how God handles us at the judgment seat. Perhaps we’ll meet there before Power of One!

Badger–
I don’t work for lifefest you moron.

Like someone said before, google is a wonderful thing. It’s not that hard to find information on someone like yourself.

Just one more way for you to try and curse Life.

I have no affiliation with them and could careless about your accusations towards them. Don’t be a fool my friend!

I’D MUCH RATHER … !

I’d much rather be crippled and in a wheelchair with Jesus
than be fully able bodied without Him!
I’d rather walk in the corals with cowboys
than walk in courts with kings and lose the common touch!
.
“When did I see you hungry and feed you, lonely and comfort you…?”
.
.
.
I’d much rather be unable to restore my marriage
because of my relationship with Christ
than to spend decades in a marital bliss
for having abandoned my right relationship with Him!
.
“He who denies me before men I will deny before my Father;
he who proclaims me before men I will proclaim before my Father!”
.
.
.
I’d much rather be a fallen sinner with personal problems
and failures in a right relationship with Jesus Christ
than be a “perfect, upright, self righteous success”
without Him!”
.
“What does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul?”
.
.
.
I’d much rather be a man who rests in and relies on
the fear and admonition and peace of the Lord
than be a man who “rests” in indefensible lies
and re-lies and re-lies and re-lies on his own laurels!
.
“You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”
.
.
.
I’d much rather be discontented on behalf of and with the Lord
than be “contented” on behalf of and with His enemies!
…to be grieved by the things that grieve the heart of God
than to grieve the heart of God for causing such grief!
.
“As you failed to do it to the least of these my brethren
you failed to do it unto me. Depart from me!”
.
.
.
I’d much rather comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable
than comfort the comfortable and afflict the afflicted!
I’d rather afflict those corrupted who oppress the afflicted
and comfort those afflicted by the afflictions of the corrupted!
.
“For He bore our griefs and carried our sorrows,
he was smitten of God and afflicted, yet we esteemed him not!”
.
.
.
I’d much rather stand alone with God in proclaiming His truth
than to stand with millions in proclaiming their lies!
I’d rather live alone as an obedient servant of the Lord
than to live with others in rebellion to His Holy Word!
.
“Who am I that I might go?”
“Who am I that you would send me?”
.
.
.
I’d much rather be a “troublemaker” for the Lord
than be a “peace maker” for Satan!
For the “troubles” of the former will never
be as bad or as lasting as the “peace” of the latter!
.
“Woe to you scribes and hypocrites:
you heal the wounds of my people lightly,
saying, ‘Peace! Peace!’ where there is no peace!”
.
.
.
In this wicked cold season
of such lies and unreason
I’m glad I’m not you
I’d much rather be me!
For I’m following Jesus…
proclaiming truth … free!
Just what about you, friend,
which type will you be
.
“Well done, my good and faithful servant!”
“I knew you in your mother’s womb,
even before you were conceived!
.
.
.
Copyright 2007 by CSM, RSM & RSM

“The greatest danger to liberty lurks in insidious encroachment
by men of zeal, well meaning, but without understanding!”

Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

No doubt you will apply this to me and Kris Potts, but the fact is: you all who claim to have no involvement or first hand knowledge of anything to do with the case or operations of LIFEST and the injuries to concert goers on Friday, July 13, 2007, and the tragic death of Elizabeth Mohl certainly have no problem engaging in blatant and indefensible “encroachment” with great zeal, perhaps (though a dubious claim, at best) ‘well meaning, but [in your utter lack of information and wisdom, distracting and irrelevant personal attacks and mendacious “Scarlet Letter” insinuations] without understanding.”

You all are just too good at manfesting the phrase made famous by Steve Martin nearly 30 years ago: “Criticize things you don’t know about!”

All of you who do so are not only “wild [but] crazy guy[s]”!

Crazy being the operative word!

How’s that working for you so far?

Do you suppose you can plead insanity at the judgment seat?

Good luck with that!

For even if I, as you demand, become silent so you can worship the god of your own making than the God who made you, HE IS NOT SILENT!

“Depart from me!”

Badger Bugler, I think that what you’re doing now qualifies you as OC. How do you get up in the morning?

Where is everyone else that is “in your boat”. Where are “all the others” that agree with you?

And how will you serve someone papers whom you have never physically seen before?

I think you are a media hungry, attention starved egomaniac.

Cpowell said,

July 20, 2007 at 7:47 am

Badjer Bugler

[WORD COUNTS BUT NO SPELL CHECK!?]

So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you.

[YET ANOTHER misapplication of Scripture! I was not the one “struck” or offended, but others. I am not called to turn the other cheek, but to speak the truth in love, speak truth to power, speak truth no matter the opposition and faithfully do the work of the wathman and trumpeter (and Bugler — Badger or otherwise)! If anyone wants to turnthe cheek, it is those who were injured. You again misapply Scripture to cause an even more ungodly outcome to this mix of a Godly and ungodly thing called LIE-FEST 2007!”

“You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud…”

ACTUALLY, YOU CONFUSE the people who are speaking out about people literally being dragged throgh the mud at LIFEST with those who did the dragging or willfully and knowingly allowed them to be dragged through the mud! Again, you miss the target, by far and wide!

“… thats slandor …”

AGAIN, MAYBE YOU MISS THE DEFINITION BECAUSE IT IS “SLANDER” (Which is unbiblical, un-Christian and illegal, etc.). But, CPOWELL, what you failed to C is that slander is telling lies about people and bearing false witness. The literal and legal and spiritual defense to the charge of libel, slander and defamation is this: that the thing said or written was true!

Also, maybe you’re thinking of “rumors,” which are in the same category of sin, if you will (and many of you will spread rumors, as you’ve shown)! But lest you think the claims made here are rumors, those are defined as things heard and said and passed on over which the rumor monger has no first hand experience or knowledge, etc.

You see, friends, you keep hoisting yourselves on your own pitard — the righteous sword of God’s Word (and your own words)! You’ve entered a serious spiritual and factual battle and a battle of wits, as well, and have been revealed to be unarmed!

“…and if I am correct very against biblical principles….”

IF YOU MEAN atacks like your based on your willful ignorance and arrogant proclamations based upon them in blatant defiance to God’s Word and the truth and wisdom spoken by someone who has backed it up with that Word and explanations of incidents from a first-hand perspective, then Yes, what you have correctly concluded is that you have violated “biblical principles”!

“But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around.”

YES, WHICH IS WHAT YOU and others have done, with no application or basis in biblical or incidental truth relating to the willful and wantonly reckless conduct, injuries and death at LIFEST!

“I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.”

AHA, now I think I know you! I heard the same things at LIFEST when others were trying to get security directors and others to do the right thing! Were you a LIFEST leader and volunteer. Is the work you must get to related to lying and file shredding?

Hmmmm….

olvlzl, no ism, no ist said,

July 24, 2007 at 6:39 pm

Badger Bugler, I think that what you’re doing now qualifies you as OC. How do you get up in the morning?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WOW, PRAISE JESUS! Finally, Lord, a Compliment!

olvlzl, no ism, no ist has finally seen the wisdom of Your Words and the wonder of my ways — s/he’s called me an OUTSTANDING CHRISTIAN!

But olvlzl, no ism, no ist’s greatest praise will never exceed your most withering criticism in its ability to encouarge and edify me!

Didn’t find warmth in those statuettes, even less in the words of (wo)men!

Badger Bugler, I think that what you’re doing now qualifies you as OC. How do you get up in the morning?

LOL, seriously. Badger Bugler, you are scary. You’re just sounding like an angry internet troll……

Has anyone seen the court cases this guy has. Holy crap!
Someone was busy.

CCAP – Kris Potts

and the saddest part is I think he is proud of it!

Dear True Christians and Lions:

In his enduring integrity and friendliness, the host/moderator here has passed on reports of your complaints that you don’t like what I write.

Yet, as to who might have asked for this, it almost certainly would not have been an atheist, as they usually love to see Christians tackle each other, whether over legitimate or illegitimate matters.

So that seems to leave we “Christians,” which proves my point perfectly. That silencing the truth is something so many of you wish to do. Sad state of affairs when you have to ask an atheist web host to silence a Christian for you on a matter so seriously involving a Christian group, “Christians” and issues of CHristian faith and fact.

As I see it, you did your cause an incredible disservice; but as Wes Halula does at every step and every time he speaks publicly, you affirm the very points you seem intent on squashing! As does this, demonstrating incredible inattentiveness to the facts:

“andy said,
July 25, 2007 at 12:04 am
Has anyone seen the court cases this guy has. Holy crap!
Someone was busy.
CCAP – Kris Potts
and the saddest part is I think he is proud of it!”

The sad thing is that I posted this and you add nothing that declares anything bad about the “math” of it all, as you once again focus on style, word counts and mathematical calculations over facts and substance… and you seem proud of that!!!

As a pastor friend says, “Figures lie and liars figure!” Good luck with that well documnted part of your lives too!

There is no (not little, but no) doubt that you don’t want evidence like phone records or to debate this publicly, because you have and know neither the facts or the law, and care about neither, whether the laws of man or of God. It is just easier, as so many rail on these days and one dares to call himself/herself here, to be a “pundit” instead of an original or truly critical, wise and discerning thinker and believer actually doing and standing for something yourselves.

Also, lest you think you’ve fooled anyone here (which Wes has given up on his own) the role of LIFEST insiders here is more clear than you will ever admit (and have lied about) and is already clear!

As for you conspiracy and “disgruntled volunteer” nuts, I know people willig to sign waivers of liability and claims for LIFEST’S benefit to prove the foolishness and untenability of your inedfensible position(s) about “facts,” “credibility” and “motives” here!

The e-mail from Stan Alt posted above proves that Halula lied again to another reporter for a story posted worldwide Tuesday. Somewhere in it all, Wes, my boy, missed that little niggling thing about “bering false witness” — yet simultaneously confessed responsibility for things Potts has accused LIFEST of doing wrong. (Oh, boy, Wes! You called Potts a liar and “grandstander” when it turns out your Grandstand and Strike Team Security Director, Stan Alt, actually recruited him under a no mosh and danger and violence policy! Sound ad hominem, mendacious and plain dishonest to us, Halula, me “brother in Christ”!

Sounds, Wes, like you have just confessed liability for all of the injuries at THE EDGE on Friday, that the operator ran in the lightning and you did not stop him, and so much more! Has anyone ever told you that the critical prerequisite to speaking the truth is having the truth to speak?! Why won’t you speak the truth unfettered by your own self-serving agenda?

Wes, ths is not funny and it is not Comedy Sportz! It is also not Happy Fun Time Lounge! You are out of your depth, ot of your league, out of God’s will, out of the truth and, thus, out of your spiritual mind! What, after all, does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul. Yours, I fear, is on the line.

I would encourage you to stop talking and seriously consider resigning your position to protect your own spiritual welfare and whatever professional reputation you might have left and/or be able to restore (that’s a pretty high grandstand, Wessy, and I’d hate to see you end up in the same pickle jar as Kris Potts!) before you also risk the possibility of charges for knowingly speaking lies on behalf of your board in a manner that might be seen as wrongfully harassing those attempting to report what they believe are crimes. You and your bord memebrs might do well to read the Wisconsin State Statutes on intimidating a victim and/or witness! (This is a criminal statute, Wessy, me boy!) Your effort to “expose embarrassing information” about Kris Potts in order to dissuadde him from speaking to investigators can be charged as a crime! Do you know this? Iis called INTIMIDATION OF A WITNESS/VICTIM (Felony)! Not that it will be charged, Wes, but it can! I don’t know Christian Gossettt, but I bet he won’t be happy to read that you are effectively threatening and harassing a witness.

Now that you’ve had your fun casting laurels upon yourselves and each other like a pack of rabid Roman Senators and tossing yourselves across the LIFEST chmbers into them like chidren into piles of marshmallows, celebrating your seeming victory over the great Satan, Kris Potts, you may wish to consider this: It may be time to declare upon yourself, my friend, the Royal Manifestation of the Much Revered Brown Bag Foul! Crown yourself with the crown that will serve you best right now, since you ignore the Crown of Christ! After all, you are not a lion of the Lord, but a paper lion!

Speaking of kings, would you ever dare share a round table — or stage or church conference room (for Matthew Model accountability) — with the principles here? Not because they are crazy, but because who is right and who is wrong, telling the truth and lies, will be exposed so quickly that you fear the public repercussions and shame! (And it is not Kris Potts who will be shamed and exposed!)

Unlike you, Kris Potts is proud of nothing you say he is, but neither ashamed of anything you’d wish. You effuse arrogance, ignorance and hubris, while he speaks truth with confidence, clarity and humility! Deal wth it! (As we now leave you to your own dull devices, spiritual and otherwise, to do everything here but discuss actual facts!)

“Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story” against those who have exposed the fact that the emporers of LIFEST have no clothes!

To what was God doing when all hell ws breaking loose at the hand of careless LIFEST leaders?

“Jesus wept!”

He’s weaping still!

But He is not silent!

So good luck with that, too!

Goodbye!

bugler do you have anything but:

– cliche, e.g. “good luck with [all] that” and “Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story”;

– inuendo, e.g. “Money over safety…” (w.r.t. Lifest leadership), “‘Pastor’ Jeff McGregor” and “‘Christian’ Band SKILLET”;

– paranoid speculation, e.g. “the role of LIFEST insiders here is more clear than you will ever admit” , “many of you will spread rumors, as you’ve shown”, and “Just thought you should know that you just improperly used internal LIFEST documents and information there” (you do remember that the names Jessica Potts and Megan Potts are a matter of public record, having been associated in court records with Kris Potts, don’t you?);

– repeated re-posted edits of your posts (just look above, there are plenty of examples); and

– name calling, e.g. “GLOBALI-NAZI”, “LIE-FEST”, and “Wessy”

in the bag of tricks you’re using to intimidate these folks? if so, i think it’s time to get them out. you’ve gotten all of the mileage you can get out of these tired old horses. your victims are restless and seem to be getting uppity. it’s a good thing you are able to bury them in words, at least! whether or not they have any actual substance. that journalism background sure comes in handy, boy howdy!

oh, and by the way, you’re welcome!

ps – do you sleep??

I was at Lifest 2007. It was a VERY sad time for Liz’s family and other festival attendees that witnessed such a tragic event. I watched as Lifest people and thousands of others tearfully prayed for Liz and her family. It was a heart-wrentching time. There were delayed events, lots of prayer-filled moments, and a significantly toned down remainder of the event once everyone was notifed of what happened. Many youth were seen praying and it was very solemn. Our God is good and He did NOT cause Liz to die an early death. He LOVES her, her family, and He LOVES us. We don’t understand everything that happens here on earth, but I know one thing for sure…our God is a GOOD GOD and He LOVES us (ALL of us!)!

I worship life promotions! I worship the ground BOB LENZ walks on! I even worship LIFEST! Long live LIFEST! Too bad Badger doesnt see it my way. Come on badger, just go along with the system. Its so much easier on this side. Be a follower. (Is this what you want me to say Badger? Is this what you believe I think? Oh wait it doesnt matter because no matter what I say or write, you believe what you believe end of story.)

By the way Badger, have you actually ever met or communicated with a STAFF MEMBER of LIFE PROMOTIONS? Have you ever met WES? HMMMMMM.

Didnt think so!

Abso-posi-lutely me the Brown Bag Fouler Extra-ordinaire, Bob Lenz, Mitch Lautenslager, Tom Magnin, Val, Tammy, Ted, Donny, Jimmy, Bobby, Cubby, Annette and Roy (oh, and Uncle Walt, too)!

L-I-F…

E-S-T

T-R-AG-E-DY

From the Report on the death at LIFEST from the Wisconsin Department of Commerce, which detailed 25 Violations by the operator:

3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Event sponsors — LIFEST, which had a “risk manager” on site who presumably thought this risk was worth taking — are obligated to ensure that these certificates are in place prior to a ride ever taking its place on the grounds, let alone operating.

You all have enjoyed challenging my assertion that LIFEST had plenty of opportunities to prevent injuryand death at LIFEST when I and others raised concerns, and apparently bought into every batch of Kool Aid Wes Halula has mixed up and served you, but this report proves that they filed from the “get go” by allowing Air Glory to set up and operate in blatant violation of state statutes, administrative code and mandatory policies and procedures.

Go figure! LIFEST had its own chance in Wisconsin to be a Badger Bugler, trumpeting the warning. Instead, they have assassinated the character of those who — “despising the shame” of the cross of ignorance and arrogance you have crucified them and their character on — dared to tell the truth LIFEST has refused to stand up for and tell, since even before LIFEST began and the rides began rolling.

Wisconsin Department of Commerce
P. O. Box 7970
Madison, Wisconsin 53707
(608) 266-1018
TDD #: (608) 264-8777

Jim Doyle, Governor
Mary P. Burke, Secretary

To: Interested Parties
Fr: Wisconsin Department of Commerce
Re: Giant Swing Ride (Serial Number 2126009) Incident
Dt: July 27, 2007

This memo outlines the Department of Commerce’s investigation and inspection findings relating to the Air Glory incident; the Department’s measures in response to the incident; and background on Wisconsin’s amusement ride safety program administered by the Department.

Summary of Air Glory Incident and Investigation Findings

On Saturday, July 14, 2007, at approximately 5:45 PM, the owner of Air Glory, Gary Ross, informed Commerce Occupational Safety Inspector Shirley Noltemeyer by telephone of an accident involving a rider, Elizabeth Mohl, falling from his Giant Swing ride (Serial Number 2126009). The incident took place the Lifest event held at the Winnebago County Fairgrounds, 500 E. County Trunk Y, Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The Oshkosh Police at the scene informed Noltemeyer that the ride was shut down and would be available for inspection the next day.

On Sunday, July 15, 2007, at approximately 10:00 AM, Noltemeyer commenced an initial inspection of the Giant Swing ride and its safety equipment at that time. Noltemeyer’s initial inspection included the harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring that attached the rider to the ride. While the initial inspection indicated that the harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring were in good operating condition, Noltemeyer requested that the Oshkosh Police impound the ride to prevent its operation and to preserve the condition of the ride pending a full investigation and inspection. Upon the request, the Oshkosh Police impounded the ride. In addition, the Safety & Buildings Division in the Department of Commerce issued a red-tag that prohibits further operation of the ride until approved by the Department.

On Tuesday, July 17, 2007, Commerce Inspectors Terry Clark, Tim Condon, Scott Amacher and Noltemeyer conducted a detailed inspection of the ride.

After thorough inspections and review, the Commerce inspectors found that that the structure and condition of the ride did not contribute to the incident (See attached Accident Investigation and Inspection Memorandum). Specifically, the harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring that attach the ride to the rider were all in safe operating condition and did not contribute to the incident.

On July 17, Commerce issued a red-tag order and letter prohibiting Air Glory from operating this ride and other similar rides in Wisconsin.

On July 27, 2007, Commerce inspector Terry Clark issued a final Safety Inspection Report and Orders citing Air Glory for 25 code violations related to the ride and ordering Air Glory to correct these 25 code violations. Four of the code violations relate to the operator’s failure to maintain records documenting the required assembly, daily, and nondestructive inspections. The

Page 2

violations cited did not contribute to the incident, as none of the violations relate to the condition of the attachment points between the rider and the ride. (See attached Safety Inspection Report and Orders).

The finding that the structure and condition of the ride did not contribute to the incident is consistent with the witness statements and Oshkosh Police incident reports.

Department of Commerce Response

In response to this incident and upon consideration of the subsequent investigation and inspection, Secretary Burke has directed the Division of Safety and Buildings to implement the following measures immediately:

1. Prohibit Air Glory, its owner, and any rides owned or operated by Air Glory or it owner, including the Giant Swing ride, from operating in Wisconsin for the remainder of 2007.

2. Prohibit Air Glory and its owner from operating any ride in Wisconsin for a minimum of 5 years unless and until the Department of Commerce inspects and approves any ride they seek to operate prior to its first use.

3. Enact an emergency rule to minimize the possibility of operator error by setting out explicit requirements for rides that suspend riders with carabineers, harnesses, and wires.

4. Launch a thorough review of the amusement ride safety program, reopen the rules governing amusement rides, solicit input, and evaluate other state’s programs to ensure that Wisconsin has the highest possible safety standard for amusement rides.

Commerce’s Amusement Ride Safety Program Background

Registration Requirements.

Amusement rides in Wisconsin or entering Wisconsin must be registered with the Department of Commerce prior to operation. Registration requires the submission of owner and ride information as well as a schedule of where and when the ride will be operating within the state. In addition, non-mobile or fixed rides must undergo a plan review and approval prior to operation.

Owner Inspection Requirements.

The owner of amusement rides must conduct and document the following inspections:

• Inspection at Assembly – The owner is responsible for a visual inspection of the ride when it is assembled to check for defects and make sure fasteners are properly installed.

• Daily Inspection and Operational Tests – Before any rider is allowed to ride each day, operators must inspect and test the ride, including all control devices, speed-limiting devices, brakes, and other safety equipment.

• Nondestructive Test – Every 3,000 operating hours or three years – whichever comes first – the owner of rides like the Giant Swing must test the structural integrity of ride using a non-destructive test, such as an X-ray.

In addition, the assembly and disassembly of rides must be done by or under the supervision of an authorized person and rides must be operated by an authorized person of at least 18 years of age.

Sponsor Requirements.

Page 3

Any person, group or business contracting with a ride owner for the use of an amusement ride must include in its contract a provision that the owner is in compliance with the requirements of Wisconsin law and regulations on amusement rides.

Commerce Inspections.

In addition to the owner inspections, the Department of Commerce conducts regular inspections, usually on a surprise basis, using the itinerary provided during the registration process. Each year, Commerce inspects approximately 60% of the Class 1 and Class 2 rides (carnival type
rides). These inspections include reviewing the structure and condition of the ride, including the safety equipment, electrical equipment, fire safety, ingress and egress. The inspections also includes a review of records to ensure that the other three types of inspections have occurred.
When violations are found, Commerce inspectors write orders requiring owners to correct the violation. In cases that pose an immediate safety threat, Commerce inspectors red-tag dangerous rides and immediately shut them down.

In June 2006, Secretary Burke strengthened Commerce’s inspection program by adopting rules that allow Commerce inspectors to red-tag dangerous facilities, including amusement rides. Once red-tagged, it is illegal to operate the ride in Wisconsin. Prior to the adoption of red-tag
authority, Commerce inspectors had to rely on the authority of other officials, such as local law enforcement, carnival management, or ride manufacturers, to shut down a dangerous ride. The red-tag issued against Air Glory’s Giant Swing ride is the third amusement ride case in which Commerce inspectors have needed to invoke their red-tag authority.
Commerce officials in the amusement ride program believe that this is the first fatality on an amusement ride in Wisconsin since 1979.

SAFETY INSPECTION REPORT AND ORDERS
Safety and Buildings Division
2715 Post Road.
Stevens Point, WI 54481
(715) 345-5342, (715) 571-1605

To Attention Of: Gary Ross, Owner
Title: Owner
AIR GLORY INC
811 MARY MEADOWS LANE
ST LOUIS MO 63141
Customer ID: 960854

Deputy Name: Terrence W Clark , Safety Insp.

Device Inspected: Giant Swing, Serial No.: 2126009699
Located At (number and Street address): 640 W 3rd Street
City: Oshkosh
County: Winnebago

Inspection Date: 07/17/2007
Transaction ID: 1418139
Reg Object ID: 950967
Corrected and amended: July 26, 2007

Violations Explained To: Gary Ross

Compliance Date: 07/27/07
.
.
.
[BLOG NOTE: EACH LINE ITEM IS A VIOLATION AS DETERMINED BY INVESTIGATORS. ITEM 3 DEMONSTRATES THAT THE RIDE WAS NOT AUTHORIZED TO OPERATE ON SITE AT ALL, AND THAT LIFEST WAS OBLIGATED TO KNOW AND KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS, AND THUS, SHOULD AND COULD HAVE PREVENTED THE DEATH OF ELIZABETH MOHL! IF ALLOWING A RIDE to operate at all when the very first thing LIFEST was required to do was not done shows, as I see it, fundamental and irrefutable evidence of an extremely high degree of recklessness and negligence! This is not a question of whether they could and did monitor it along the way, but whether they did their mandatory legal duty from the outset. The later incidents only goes to serve as added evidence to show a heinous pattern of willful misconduct, recklessness, negligence and lying to the public since the death. Whether they lied to officials may never be known.]

1. Comm 3.13 Stop Work and Stop Use Procedures. (1) REASONS FOR ISSUANCE. Pursuant to the statutory goals regarding the protection of public safety and health enumerated under chs. 101, 145 and 167, Stats., the division may, without advance written notice, issue an order to immediately cease any construction, installation, operation, or activity or the use of a building, building component, structure or mechanical device for any of the following reasons:

(a) There is reasonable cause to believe that the construction, installation, activity, existing condition or method of operation creates an imminent danger to public safety or health as a result of a violation of a statute or administrative rule administered by the division.

(b) The activity is being performed or conducted by an individual who does not hold the appropriate license, certification or registration as required by statute or administrative rule administered by the division.

(c) The construction, installation, activity or operation has not been approved or been issued the appropriate permit as required by statute or administrative rule administered by the division.

Condition Found: Potential life hazards.

Action Required: A full ride inspection will be conducted with all violations corrected prior to further use. NOTE: The Red Tag shall not be removed unless authorized by the inspector. Any person or firm operating this system prior to authorized release is subject to additional penalties.

Note: Inspection date reads July 5, 2007.

The actual inspection date was July 15, 2007.
.
.
.
Page: 5

Item ORDER REQUIREMENTS ? Done X Not Done
.
.
.
1. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.15 Periodic inspections and operational tests. (1) GENERAL. The owner shall arrange for all amusement rides to be subjected to periodic inspections and operational tests as specified in this section. Such inspections and tests shall be documented by written records and the records shall be kept as specified in s. Comm 34.18.

Condition Found: Documentation of wire rope inspections was not available nor provided.

Resolution: Provide documentation or wire rope inspection.
.
.
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2. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.27 Identification. (3) PASSENGER-CARRYING DEVICE

IDENTIFICATION. Each passenger-carrying device on an amusement ride or attraction shall be identified by a permanent number or manufacturer’s decal, at least one inch in height and located in a conspicuous place. Permanent ink markers are not acceptable.

Condition Found: The passenger carrying devices were not properly numbered.

Resolution: Properly number the passenger-carrying devices (harnesses).
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3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.
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4. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 525.31 Equipment Grounding. All equipment requiring grounding shall be grounded by an equipment grounding conductor of a type and size recognized by Section 250.118 and installed in accordance with article 250. The equipment grounding conductor shall be bonded to the system grounded conductor at the service disconnecting means or, in the case of a separately derived system such as a generator, at the generator or first disconnecting means supplied by the generator. The grounded circuit conductor shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor on the load side of the service disconnecting means or on the load side of a separately derived system disconnecting means.

Condition Found: The generator was found to be improperly grounded.

Resolution: The generator shall be properly grounded.
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5. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.16(2) TEST PERIOD. (a) Class 1 and 2. When required in accordance
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Page 2

with recognized safe practice, nondestructive tests of all class 1 and class 2 amusement rides shall be performed every 3 years or 3,000 hours of operation, whichever comes first, or at testing intervals required by the manufacturer. The time interval shall be based upon the date of the previous test report.

Condition Found: The ride was found to not have had the required NDT testing.

Resolution: Provide documentation of, or perform a non-destructive test, such as but not limited to magnetic particle, x-ray, dye penetrant or ultrasonic, on the frame of the ride.
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6. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.24(3)(d) (d) Guardrails shall be designed and constructed with a rigid intermediate barrier, or equivalent, capable of withstanding a minimum load of 100 pounds applied downward or horizontally.

Note: These are minimum standards for protecting average size adults. Guardrails should be constructed to discourage small children from climbing or swinging on, or passing through them.

Condition Found: The ride was found to have platform handrails without a midrail.

Resolution: The ride shall have proper midrails installed on the platform.
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7. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 525.20 Wiring Methods. (H) Boxes and

Fittings. A box or fitting shall be installed at each connection point, outlet, switchpoint, or junction box.

Condition Found: On the turntable drive motor and electrical box has been broken off, exposing electrical wires.

Resolution: The electrical boxes shall be properly replaced or shall be removed along with the associated wiring.
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8. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 525.20(D) Splices. Flexible cords or cables shall be continuous without splice or tap between boxes or fittings.

Condition Found: The main wire emanating from the main electrical control box was found to be spliced.

Resolution: Spliced flexible cords shall be removed and replaced.
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9. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.27(A) Live parts guarded against accidental contact. Except as elsewhere required or permitted by this code live parts of electrical equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved enclosures.

Condition Found: Inside the main electrical panel a pillow and other non-electrical materials were found stored there.

Resolution: The non-electrical materials shall be removed from the box and access shall be denied to unqualified persons.
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10. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work.

(A) Unused Openings. Unused cable or raceway openings in boxes, raceways, auxiliary gutters, cabinets, cutout boxes, meter socket enclosures, equipment cases, or housings shall be effectively closed to afford protection substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment.

Condition Found: The electrical panel box was found to have open holes in it.

Resolution: The unused openings in the electrical box shall be properly closed.
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11. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 400.10 Pull at Joints and Terminals. Flexible cords shall be so connected to devices and to fittings that tension will not be transmitted to joints or terminals.

Condition Found: Various wires throughout the ride were found to be pulled from their respective cord grips.

Resolution: The wires shall have the strain relief properly repaired.
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Page 3 7/18/2007

12. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.27(C) Warning signs. Entrances to rooms and other guarded locations that contain exposed live parts shall be marked with conspicuous warning signs forbidding unqualified personnel to enter.

Condition Found: The main electrical panel is lacking a sign forbidding entry.

Resolution: The electrical panels shall have signs placed on them forbidding entry to unqualified personnel.
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13. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32 Comm 16.12 NEC 525.20 Wiring Methods. A. Type. Where flexible cord or cables are used, they shall be listed for extra-hard usage. Where flexible cords or cables are used and are not subject to physical damage, they shall be permitted to be listed for hard usage. Where used outdoors, flexible cords and cables shall also be listed for wet locations and be sunlight resistant. Extra-hard usage flexible cords and cables shall be permitted for use as permanent wiring on portable amusement rides and attractions where not subject to physical damage.

Condition Found: The ride was found to have construction lighting strings in use.

Resolution: The ride shall have the improper wiring and lights removed.
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14. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF

DEFECTS. (a) Defective, improper, worn or missing parts shall be replaced or repaired.

Condition Found: The main gear box for the hoisting mechanisms is leaking gear lubrication.

Resolution: The gearbox shall be properly repaired to prevent further leakage.
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15. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF

DEFECTS. (f) Wire rope shall be serviceable and free of sharp ends. Wire rope shall be replaced under any of the following conditions:
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5. Burning, kinking, knotting, crushing or other damage which changes the structure of the rope occurs.

Condition Found: The main hoisting wire rope is found to be bird caged.

Resolution: The wire rope shall be properly replaced.
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16. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (1)GENERAL. (a)

Amusement rides, attractions and structures shall be maintained, repaired and modified in accordance with recognized safe practice.

Condition Found: The emergency stop switch was found to be broken.

Resolution: The emergency stop switch shall be replaced.
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17. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.31(4) AUTOMATIC RESTART PROHIBITED. All amusement rides with passenger–carrying devices shall be equipped and maintained with devices to prevent automatic restart after power failure, including, but not limited to, magnetic starters, magnetic switches and pneumatic clutches.

Condition Found: The ride was found to be without proper restart devices.

Resolution: The proper restart devices shall be provided.
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18. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.22 Passenger–carrying devices. (1) GENERAL. All passenger–carrying devices shall be designed, assembled, operated and maintained in accordance with recognized safe practices.

Condition Found: The ride was found to be operating without an anti two block to prevent over retraction of wire ropes.

Resolution: Similar rides in the State of Wisconsin operate with an anti-two block. This ride shall be fitted with a proper anti-two block.
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19. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.13(a) Mounting. Electrical equipment shall be firmly secured to the surface on which it is mounted.
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Page 4 7/18/2007

Condition Found: Inside the main electrical panel a transformer was found to be attached by a piece of rope.

Resolution: The transformer does not belong in the electrical panel. The transformer shall be removed and properly relocated if needed.
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20. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.37 Cleanliness. (1) REFUSE CONTAINERS. Refuse containers shall be provided in and around all amusement rides. Accumulations of trash or refuse shall be removed within 24 hours.

Condition Found: The ride has unused and damaged wire rope hanging from it.

Resolution: The unused and damaged wire rope shall be removed from the ride.
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21. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF DEFECTS. (a) Defective, improper, worn or missing parts shall be replaced or repaired.

Condition Found: All the sheaves for the wire haul rope show excessive wear and are not properly aligned.

Resolution: The sheaves and their bushings shall be inspected and either repaired or replaced as needed.
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22. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF

DEFECTS. (h) All required safety pins and wedges shall be installed and they shall be secured with “R” keys, lynch pins, diaper pins or other devices in accordance with recognized safe practice.

Condition Found: The axle for the wire rope sheaves is missing a proper cotter key to hold it in place.

Resolution: The cotter key shall be replaced.
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23. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.18 Record keeping. (1) OWNER RESPONSIBILITY. Records related to amusement ride safety shall be kept and retained by the amusement ride owner and shall be made available to the department upon request.

(2) REQUIRED RECORDS. Records shall be kept of the following:

(a) Inspections at time of assembly as specified in s. Comm 34.15 (2);

(b) Daily inspections and operational tests as specified in s. Comm 34.15 (3);

(c) Nondestructive tests as specified in s. Comm 34.16;

(e) The hours of operation since the last nondestructive test.

Note: The hours of operation should be recorded after each use to maintain a current running total from the last nondestructive test.

(3) ACCURACY OF RECORDS. An authorized person shall sign the records to attest to their accuracy.

(4) RETENTION OF RECORDS. (a) Records for at least the 30 previous days of operation as specified in sub.

(2) (a) and (b) and the most recent nondestructive tests as specified in s. Comm 34.16 shall be kept with the amusement ride.

(b) All records shall be kept at least 7 years.

Condition Found: There are no maintenance and inspection records available for review.

Resolution: The records shall be properly kept and available for review.
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24. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.18 Record keeping. (1) OWNER RESPONSIBILITY. Records related to amusement ride safety shall be kept and retained by the amusement ride owner and shall be made available to the department upon request.

(2) REQUIRED RECORDS. Records shall be kept of the following:

(b) Daily inspections and operational tests as specified in s. Comm 34.15 (3);

Condition Found: There are no inspection records for the harnesses available for review.

Resolution: The records shall be properly kept and available for review.

Page 5 7/18/2007
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25. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.22 Passenger–carrying devices. (1) GENERAL. All passenger–carrying devices shall be designed, assembled, operated and maintained in accordance with recognized safe practices.

Condition Found: This ride was operated using a single carabiner to connect each rider’s harness to the ride.

Resolution: Similar rides operating in Wisconsin utilize 2 carabiners to attach harnesses to the ride. This ride’s harnesses shall be attached to the ride with a minimum of 2 carabiners.

What is your point Badger?

3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.

AND-Y-DOESN’T-SEEM-TO-REALIZE this means that AIR GLORY had no right to operate and that LIFEST — Bob Lenz, Mitch Lautenslager, Tom Magnin, Stan Alt, Ted, (JD Smith Security?), Romenseko, Wes Halula and many others, including its entire Board of Directors, Risk Manager and Security Directors — had an absolute legal obligation to make sure it did not operate throughout all of LIFEST!

NOT FOR ONE MINUTE!

Get the point, Andy?

The sword of truth is sharp and sure!

“You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

Trollin’

Andy–I think the point was lost long ago.

I know, I was wondering if he knew

“…and I don’t think…”

That’s the operative phrase in your whole bunch of blathering!

This isn’t about “taking down” ministries, but speaking AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH about this one, just like all those liberals like to speak about conservatives!

The truth just sucks for you right now, is all! (Is that you, Wes? The sound of “cease and desist” are sort of ringing in the background!)

Given what they do in identifying wrong doing in people every day, you must really hate cops, too! (Christian or otherwise!) And journalists, who even in the The Valley sem to like to “afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted” according to the WGBA news team site!

Haven’t heard you rail on Steve Young and his sister and grandfather, Ralph Young, of Kaukauna, who also said the ride wasn’t working right (right there on WLUK)! Even they said they wished they’d said something to LIFEST, police and others! But to what end, do you suppose? (Have you or Wes and LIFEST investigated their backgrounds. That speeding ticket Mr. Young got seems to suggest he shouldn’t be trusted — lawbreaker!)

Then again, the missing sticker IS, in a sense, what caused it all! It is/was proof of a negligent and reskless and inattentive operator not authorized to operate on that site at that time … operating illegally and allowed to do so by LIFEST, which either failed to check for the required sticker (which is the license to operate) or noticed it wasn’t there and allwoed them to operate anyway!

So, we and they report, you decide!

Boy, and what that must say about your views on God Himself!

Must hate your pastor for pointing out sins, too, eh? Or does yours refuse to read all that stuff that doesn’t just say how wonderful you are…?

Are you a carny? Or LIFEST staff? Board member? “Pastor” Jeff McGregor? “Pastor” Jeff Prewill?

What’s that in the background? Did I hear “cease and desist” again…?

Do you honestly think “God” has called you forth to bring down Life with the “truth”. Do you think you are a prophet. And have you not forgotten it is soooo against biblical principal to place blame among others. The death of the young girl is a tragedy and nothing short of that. But thats all it is Kris, a sad sad tragedy. It is not among us to place blame on any one person. For if everytime a human being died and blame was sought out we would all in our ways be murderers. We are human beings, of the flesh. Accidents, mistakes and painful things happen. A young women gets in a car during a snowstorm and loses control only to lose her life. Do we seek out blame, pointing fingers everywhich way? Do we tear apart the car manufacturer because something should have been done to protect a human from dying while operating their vehicle? No one here is a criminal. Everyone did their jobs to the best of their abilities and unfortunately circumstance came in to play and a life was lost. Be Thankful for the life this young lady had and pray for her safe journey home, if that is what you chose to believe in. But the rest is put to rest. If this was someone you had loved you would not want some strange individual using their death as a platform for hateful accusations.

You are oh so self-right, anonymous…

Disband the police, the courts and disbar all lawyers…

You confuse blame for accountability and responsibility! You advocate utter anarchy and lack of responsibility.

Are you Jeff McGregor, Jeff Prewitt, Wes Halula, Bob Lenz…?

Who are you? Oo oo, oo oo! (CSI is coming for you excuse makers!)

And if you are right in your theory of life and unbiblical claims about the meaning of life and God’s Word, why have you not written these same things about the DA’s and OPD’s and DOC’s investigations? (With that theology, explain that whole Ezekiel 33 thing and those odd little passages by a guy named Jesus blaming certain people for not doing certain things and being told, “Depart from me!” Sort of a little blame and accountability game He’s playing there, don’t you think?! Or is that one of those INCONVENIENT TRUTHS of JESUS passages you removed from your Bible? Even Thomas Jefferson believed those words (part of his “red letter” only version of the Bible — and “Old Red” was in charge of mandating the use of Bibles in public schools after the republic (not a democracy, but a republic) was founded — another of those INCONVENIENT TRUTHS you probably have a hard time with! (You are so against law and order of any type you have to be from Madison! Are you a UW professor of untruth!)

Or am I just presuming again? (I sure I am — but not upon the grace and mercy of God, as you do!)

“Woe to you scribes and hypocrites! You heal the wounds of my people ‘Peace! Peace!’ where there is no peace!”

Aha! Eureka! You are LIFEST’S “risk manager” or “security director,” who either did not do their duty and inspect the rides for the required license stickers that allowed them to plug in and power up or you did notice it missing and decided to “let ‘er go” anyway! (Or are you the husband or wife or ashamed child of those people?)

You did criticize them? Those investigators?

Oh, then please point me to tht blog so I can go read it then return here to publicly apologize, (Wes, Bob, Stan, Tom, JD, Mitch, Val, Tammy, Bob, Crol, Ted, Alice…? Risk manager? Security Director? “Ministry Board of Directors”? Robert, Phil, O.J.?!)!

P.S. Yes, anonymous, “circumstances came into play”!

And this is for sure, without the license to operate the “circumstance” called Air Glory had no right to come “into play” at LIFEST.

So grow up, wake up, open up your eyes, read the Bible, read “Caesar’s” law and get your head out of the “weak and shifting sands” of ridiculous excuse making!

I can’t imagine where you stand on the Inquisition, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Afghanistan (Russia and US), Iraq, Irag and Korea, let alone the Exodus, Jericho and the crucifixion of Christ! A lot of circumstances have come “into play” throughout history, and all I hear you saying is “Shut up and be silent! Hitler is not bad, he just came into play! Satan inthe garden ws not bad; he just came into play!”

And the operator admitted that he made errors, that his employee repeatedly made serious dangerous mistakes that he knew about, and had 25 VIOLATIONS, INCLUDING MISSING and mandated fail safes, like emergency shut off switches, second D ring carabiners and much more. This wasn’t “circumstances [that] came into play,” but a pattern of known recklessness and violations of the law! 25 VIOLATIONS of THE LAW, to be exact!

So, go tell your tripe to someone who cares — if you can find time to break away from the vat of Kool Aid you’re mixing and trying to sell here! Or try to preach that crap to your church this Sunday! Or at the church of families of the victims of the injuries and death!

Get thee behind me, SaTAN!

Hey, I checked on some anagrams myself

WES HALULA

Who’s liable, Wes? AHA … WELL, US!
Who’s gonna be in the room? ALLAH, WE, US
What is your prayer? HEAL US, LAW!
What do you prophecy? WAH…ALL SUE!
What did you mean on TV? ALL WAS HUE!
What were you trying to put up there? WALL AS HUE!
What did people understand from it? ALL SAW HUE!
What do you see in your future? SAUL, AWL, HE!
Anything else? HE, SAUL, LAW!
And? WHALE SAUL
What is your future, Wes? A WEAL LUSH

ANOTHER FINE PRESENTATION of WES HALULA,
COMEDY SPORTZ & THE HAPPY FUN TIME LOUNGE at LIFEST!

Copyright 2007 – Happy Fun Time Miscreations, Inc.

Badger, you little dick, you need to go back on your meds; you’ve committed the unpardonable sin: you’ve wasted space on this blog.

are you still:

– spreading lies and misinformation by inuendo?

– still raving with paranoid speculation?

– still calling people names?

hey, you almost have the cliche thing under control. (almost.) and by golly you’ve got the re-post thing down!

help me out here, i need a little somethin’:

3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.

could you do me a favor and point out something? where does “the state” require the lifest organizers to be experts in laws governing amusement rides, please? because i’m not seeing it here. or maybe you used the “invisible” font for that part (which my computer doesn’t display).

hey, just had a thought. maybe YOU are “wes” and this is an elaborate smoke-screen. now wouldn’t that take the cake.

“In June 2006, Secretary Burke strengthened Commerce’s inspection program by adopting rules that allow Commerce inspectors to red-tag dangerous facilities, including amusement rides. Once red-tagged, it is illegal to operate the ride in Wisconsin. Prior to the adoption of red-tag authority, Commerce inspectors had to rely on the authority of other officials, such as local law enforcement, carnival management, or ride manufacturers, to shut down a dangerous ride. The red-tag issued against Air Glory’s Giant Swing ride is the third amusement ride case in which Commerce inspectors have needed to invoke their red-tag authority.”

THERE’S YOUR ANSWER, paranoid conspiracy and crank Christian watchman nuts: “Commerce inspectors had to rely on the authority of other officials, such as local law enforcement, carnival management [LIFEST], or ride manufacturers, to shut down a dangerous ride.”

LIFEST did it this way for eight years, so knew the rules well, and the red tag authority is complementary, not exclusionary, leaving LIFEST to not do its job!

And what about this?

“The ride was not registered in 2006. and therefore was not in the state of Wisconsin and not available for or subject to inspection.”

Numerous people on site and in media reports said they rode it at LIFEST last year!

NOW, THEY MUST BE LIARS! Conspiracists trying to “take down” LIFEST over their own lies! How dare they? How could it be?

Hmmmm….

Not my claim, but those of others! Go ask LIFEST and the Commerce Secretary and Gary Ross about that! Then get back to me with a formal report!

Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”?

What do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

After all, here is someone — reporter Ben Jones — who openly said something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 (must not be true, since he’s a reporter and his relationship with Christ is unknown):

Posted at:

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070718/APC0101/707180678/1979

Photo Caption to story (features two girls swinging): “The Air Glory carnival swing, being used by participants during Lifest 2006, was due for a surprise inspection by the state this week. Inspectors instead are trying to find out how the ride killed a Menasha teenager last week at the Christian music festival held in Oshkosh. The state inspects all amusement rides on an annual basis. Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers photo”

And yet another example in the …

Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”? Investigative Journalism Class!

What do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

After all, here is someone — reporter Ben Jones — who openly said something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 (must not be true, since he’s a reporter and his relationship with Christ is unknown):

Posted at:

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070718/APC0101/707180678/2044/SHE0208

Photo Caption to story (features two girls swinging): “The Air Glory carnival swing, being used by participants during Lifest 2006, was due for a surprise inspection by the state this week. Inspectors instead are trying to find out how the ride killed a Menasha teenager last week at the Christian music festival held in Oshkosh. The state inspects all amusement rides on an annual basis. Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers photo”

Aw, crud and dung on the heals of my shoes, yet another example in the …

Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”? Investigative Journalism Class!

Once again, what do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

After all, here is someone — reporter Michelle Malone of AlphaOmegaNews — who openly said something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 (must not be true, since hse’s a Christian reporter and her relationship with Christ and legal history is unknown — quick, check her out on CCAP):

Posted at:

http://www.alphaomeganews.org/reviews/concerts/07/lifest_2006.html

And what about her photographic evidence?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remembering Lifest 2006

For the past four summers I have attended Lifest, while I have had wonderful experiences each time, this past summer impacted me more than previous years.

Arriving at the gate, I was hauling along spiritual dryness, frustration from trying to overcome hurts from relationships, as well as plain weariness.

As I awoke the first morning from the illumination of the sun, and as I was camping on the Lifest grounds, I wandered near the main stage. I came across the prayer walk, which was new. Drawn by my curiosity, I went to each station and felt God’s life in my heart stirred up more and more as I began to reconnect with God’s Holiness, Jesus’ sacrifice, repentance and passion for the lost.

Each day the dryness was moistened more and more as I was reminded of the wonder of God from the daily devotions and seminars, being lead in worship lead by musicians such as Leeland and Benton Brown, as well as from the concerts by artists including Newsboys, Jars of Clay, Rebecca St. James, Sanctus Real, Todd Agnew, Natalie Grant, Barlowgirl, David Crowder and many more!

As I took the challenge of the “Air Glory” with a friend and then experienced it again on my own! As I pulled the corded that released me to rapidly descend from the heights, and then swung over the pavement, I remembered how God has His “harness” on me in all situations, and that I could trust Him to get me through every situation!

One of the best parts of the festival was having the opportunity to share it with my closest friend for the first time, as well as spending time with two people whom I met through working at the festival together a few years ago, whom I have gotten to know over the years. The time with these excellent people was healing to just “be” with and chat with them! It was definitely a festival that I will remember for many years to come! I am thankful that God gave me the opportunity to attend Lifest 2006! And I am sure that Lifest 2007 will offer spiritual renewal and refreshment to those who attend!

– Michelle Malone

can someone please ban the troll????

Pundit…

Do you ever worry that all the music in your soul is in a minor key?

And hopelessly out of tune?

Sort of like the ringer on your not so mod moto?

Why ban the troll, James?

Can’t you speak whatever drivel (or truth) you wish at any time?

More abusiveness and hate-mongering directed at me, without provocation?

Q.E.F.

(Thanks for the demonstration.)

Yet…

ANOTHER FINE PRESENTATION of WES HALULA,
COMEDY SPORTZ & THE HAPPY FUN TIME LOUNGE at LIFEST!

Copyright 2007 – Happy Fun Time Miscreations, Inc.

wow…….I think this thread will down in history…….does anyone have ANY idea what in the hell he was talking about? I tried reading his posts but it was like reading Greek…….

By the way, Air Glory was there in 2006, I rode it.

God only knows what’s going on here, but I do remember wondering a time or two when the Lifest leaders would keep their promises and provide the free meals and breaks we were to get when working extended shifts. Funny enough, they usually broke those promises, too. I’ll let it off to grace in that have were woefully understaffed and entirely unprepared to do their due diligence in protecting the people who attended, and with gathering security people around to give them the big skinny (via Stan Alt) on just what we would all be required to do in order to facilitate deadly moshing at The Edge Stage), and were — in the persons of Bob Lenz and Stan Alt themselves — more concerned with getting their friends back stage without passes or admissions of any sort (one of the reasons Bob Lenz eventually, according to the recipient himself, read Stan Alt the riot act for breaking security procedures (what was good for Bob goose was not OK for Stan Gander, I Guess) and poor Stan walked around pouting for the rest of his days ever after. My dear Lord, these people — all of them — are so amazing, majoring in the minors, as they do, and minoring in the majors. A girl is dead and dozens more were hurt and you write lies and worry about a meal or two that were promised, needed and undelivered. They are amazing, so amazing… Then again, it’s always the tack of the guilty to turn attention to those who tried to stop something, and those who speak the truth. No wonder the truth is so hard to find! Even alleged Christians like TC are more concerned with extraneous crap than the truth of all the surrounded the death of one of his/her presumed sisters in Christ. I’m laughing at your vain and mailicous attempt to change attention from the death of Elizabeth Mohl and Lifest’s liability for that death. I know God isn’t remotely impressed with me and/or anything I’ve done anywhere, including in Russia. I’m sure, however, that He and the rest of the world are now quite and immeasurably impressed with you… OOPS, gotta go…that free Lifest meal just showed up at my door. Well, Lord, better late than never, eh?!

Kris Potts

OH, one more thing before I answer the door for the bag of potato chips and bottle of warm water, TC… didn’t you write just up there a little bit that Air Glory was at Lifest in 2006 and that you rode on it? Hmmmm… Funny, though, that your claim contradicts the Department of Commerce. Who’s telling the truth, then TC? (Are you that handsome and debonair TC that works with Thomas Magnum, P.I.?) I’m sure Clare, up there, is glad you were “there to experience it.” Then again, so was I. Wonder who’s telling the truth? The camera coverage does not lie! Nor do I. Coming to a court room near you very soon…