Louisiana Republican: When I Voted for State Funds to go to Religious Schools, I Didn’t Mean Muslim Ones July 5, 2012

Louisiana Republican: When I Voted for State Funds to go to Religious Schools, I Didn’t Mean Muslim Ones

In Louisiana, Republican Governor Bobby Jindal pushed for a voucher program that would allow state funds to be used to pay for religious schools. It’s unconstitutional, it’s a way to use taxpayer money to fund someone’s faith, and it was a bad idea to begin with.

But it passed.

Now, one of the state legislators, Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson), just made a shocking discovery, though: Christianity isn’t the only religion!

Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.

“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

“Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion,” Hodges said. “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.

Wait, we’re teaching the “Founders’ religion”? I can’t wait to see those Deistic schools popping up everywhere…

I can’t decide whether the staffers at Americans United are collectively rolling their eyes or shaking their heads in disbelief, but they’re right to suggest “We told you so”:

Where to begin? Hodges’ bigotry is perhaps only rivaled by her ignorance of constitutional and legal principles. Of course Muslim schools will qualify for funding under a voucher plan. When programs like this are set up that dole out benefits to religious schools, the government can’t play favorites. That’s basic.

Some legislators aren’t comfortable funding Muslim schools. What’s to be done? How about not establishing these programs in the first place? Let Muslims fund Muslim schools. Let Catholics fund Catholics ones. Let fundamentalist Protestants pay for the conservative Christian academies and so on.

Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith. Everyone else can fend for themselves.

Message to Rep. Hodges: Your Christian privilege is showing.

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  • We also need to ensure that it does not open the door to fund radical Christian schools.  Oh wait, she doesn’t care about that.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Could not disagree with her more.  Freedom if religion means freedom for all religions, including Islam.  So if there is going to be a voucher system for private schools, it would need to include Muslim schools as well.

    As for the idea that the founding fathers were deists, that is revisionist history and simply not true. There were 56 signers of the Declaration of  Independence, and almost thirty of them were seminary graduates from Christian seminaries.  Even Thomas Jefferson and George Washington whoa re touted as deists were in fact devout Christians.  Their original writings show that to be the case as well as their actions and the opinions of their contemporaries who worked and lived with them.

    It is simply atheist and revionist history to try and contend they were not Christians. 

  • No big deal here in Canada. In Alberta, Catholic and Muslim schools get public funding too, along with public schools. They all must stick to the Province of Alberta education standards.

  • Hey, at least you’re not totally ignorant about the Constitution. Being a lawyer, I would hope that would be the case.

    As for the founding fathers’ religion… read Thomas Paine’s Age of Reason and tell me they were “almost all” Christians. Most of them were deists, and the evidence is abundant.


  • Kevin S.

    I disagree that it’s automatically unconstitutional for the state to (essentially) contract religious institutions to provide services. We’ve seen it happen plenty of times. The state simply needs to require the schools follow certain behaviors if they want to redeem the vouchers, just like it requires Catholic Charities not to discriminate when it takes state money to provide adoption services. Don’t want to play by the state’s rules? Don’t take the state’s money. I understand that in Louisiana’s case that’s not how the voucher law was set up, but there’s no good reason it can’t be.

  • Her thinking is quiet clear. If you take it from our side we want schools and the government to be about solid science and factual ideas. We don’t want creationism in our education not just because it’s religious, but because it’s bullshit. School is about educating people with things we “know”. So it makes sense for her to say she wants the government to fund Christianity. An ideology she sees as the end all be all American value system. Christianity to her is just another word for truth, history,  justice, morality etc. She probably hasn’t met a single atheist or Muslim in her life.  She’s wrong of course, but I understand why someone would do this beyond just bigotry.

  • Emb

    Canada has so much going for itself !

  • I personally think it’s all a bit of a red herring.   The Constitution isn’t deist, or Christian, or atheist, or Teapotist.  It’s secular.

    p.s. we don’t actually know that he is a lawyer. S/he could be a secretary in a law office. Or a kid in his parents’ basement. As could we all of course. But to my knowledge RW has never even stated his/her law background.

  • Fucking idiot.

    I’m sorry, that’s all I’ve got.

  • The Vicar

    That might work in Canada. But in Louisiana? After the last 50 years of Republican dominance in the southern U.S., I think the education standards run, in toto, like this: “them children better lern ta speak good, an’ what th’heck, better lern ’em some ritin’ an’ nummers too. An’ b’fore they grajamatate, they better lern not to spit in church.”

  • Stev84

    In the US, those schools don’t have to follow any standard though. They can basically do whatever they want. A lot of them are outright scams that just steal the money without providing any valuable service:


  • LesterBallard

    What a big motherfucking surprise.

  • Stev84

    It’s basically what a lot of people have been saying whenever Christianity gets some special privilege: “Just wait until a Muslim group applies for it”

  • Theotherchap


  • Jefferson was most certainly a deist- for all practical purposes, an atheist. To suggest he was a “devout Christian” is the height of absurdity, since he made it clear in numerous writings that he was not a Christian, had little respect for Christianity (even outright contempt), and did not consider Jesus to be a deity. The most influential founding fathers- Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, Madison, Monroe- were all deists to a greater or lesser degree. Many were openly hostile to Christianity.

    The revisionism comes in trying to pretend that our principle founders were Christian, or even more extreme, that the country was founded on any sort of Christian principles, when in fact it was consciously based around anti-Christian ideas.

  • While I don’t agree with state funded religious schools, at least in Canada, the religious schools are held to a standard set by the government. 

  • Mystical Potato Head..

    They only need to be learnin’ three letter, US and A!

  • Sue Blue

    People like Valarie Hodges and  Bobby Jindal are their own worst enemies.  If they’re examples  of Louisiana’s craptastic educational system, it’a a wonder people aren’t leaving the state in droves. Hell, with this kind of blazing stupidity on display, atheists don’t need to lift a finger to point out the problems of religion meddling in education.  

  • So much fun when they misread what their ideas do and it bites them in the butt

  • Hockey Bob S.


    David Barton fanboi alert!!!

    rwlawoffice – you’re flat out wrong, and so is your christian revisionist tool, David Barton.
    Barton is no more a historian than Miley Cyrus is a guest soprano at the Metropolitan Opera.

  • Maury

    I’ve always thought the way to get “In God We Trust” off of money was to insist that we also print some bills with “In Allah We Trust”. 

    Same principle.  If the government allowed one religion to express itself on money, but not others seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Would be nice to get back to “E Pluribus Unum”.

  • LesterBallard

    I bet you’d kiss David Barton’s ass 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

  • BurningStarIV

     Even the fundies disagree with you on Jefferson:

  • Wildlifeguy

    Article 11 of the 1797 treaty of Tripoli clearly states through an Act of Congress, AS  A GROUP, clearly defines what our country was NOT founded upon. Is there any Law or Treaty, or Act of Congress, from the years of our founding that contradicts this Precedent? If not, we must go by what the founders actually used to govern as our source for their ideas about what kind of Nation we were and should be.

  • I think it would be great if the Church of Satan suddenly applied for funds.

    Now that would be a real shocker for these backwards religious jerks about how bad an idea this was to begin with. In fact, I think an Atheist group should get together a “shock squadron” of religious organizations which literally shock Christians to the core, such as Paganism, Wiccan, Satanism, Scientology, Mormonism, and a few others to apply for these vouchers all at the same time.

    Seriously, I would enjoy the pain, frustration, and shock on these holier than thou Christians when they suddenly realize that they just got fucked by their own stupid law.

  • Dan

    Well, John Adams was a Unitarian, who didnt believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was eternal, so he wasn’t a traditional Christian, but I wouldn’t realy call him a deist.

  • There should not be any funding for any religious schools. Separation of church and state! Get It!!!!!!!

  • But let us be reminded how often Congress is opened with a non-Christian prayer…and what happens when it is…


  • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

    Silly Christians… religious freedom is for everyone!

  • Nailed it! 

  • You just *know* that the first words out of her mouth when she found out went something along the lines of: “What??? Those Islamics have a religion too????”

  • Sums it up.

  • mikespeir

    Oops.  Law of unintended consequences again.

  • mikespeir

    Oops.  Law of unintended consequences again.

  • Hey u done sounds like one them thar comunistes. How dares use insults God’s kountyr!

  • That is a good idea.

  • Rwlawoffice

      Where does the Treaty of Tripoli say that the founding fathers were deists?

  • Fucking idiot.

    And what does that say about her electors?

  • Dan

    RWlawoffice, you might want to do a little more study on the issue. Considering that the only colleges in America at the time were Christian it is very misleading to imply that anyone who went there must have been a devout Christian. That would be like me saying that everyone who has graduated from Georgetown is a conservative Catholic, or that anyone who goes to Baylor is forevermore a Southern Baptist. I went to the fundamentalist Bob Jones University for a year and I’m an atheist.

    It really is strange to claim that Jefferson was a devout Christian, it just shows you haven’t studied him much at all. Christian revisionist historians like to quote-mine him as saying that he considered himself a Christian, leaving out the part were he says he is a Christian in the only sense that anyone should be, which is respecting Jesus as a human who was a good moral teacher. Washington is harder to peg, because he was extremely secretive about his religious beliefs. I read a whole book by a couple Catholics trying hard to prove that he was a Christian, but there logic was really strained (like them ending the book by implying that since Washington was very moral and “by their fruits you shall know them” then he was probably a Christian). Communion is a huge part of the Episcopalian Church and while Washington’s wife would usually stay for it Washigton always left before communion. There is some evidence that Wahington did pray, but it is absolutely unclear to me whether he was liberal Christian or just on the border between a general theism and deism. Even if he was a Christian perhaps he was like John Adams (the most obviously Christian of the first five presidents) who didn’t believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was eternally divine. You might want to read John Fee’s book on the founders, he is a history teacher at an Evangelical Christian college and can clarify many of your confusions on this issue (he also has a blog).

    I apologize in advance for spelling and grammar errors in this post. I wrote it on my iPhone, which usually doesn’t work out optimally.

  • Reginald Selkirk

    “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools…

    Nor radical Christian schools, one might hope.

  • Not quite true that Jefferson had contempt for Christianity.  For the religious organizations of his day, surely (cf. Madison for equal contempt for organized religion).  But Jefferson did like the teachings of Christ, about which he said in a letter to John Adams in 1813:  “We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. ”

    But given that he outright rejected the miracles and the divinity of Jesus, he can in no way be counted as an orthodox Christian.

  • Reginald Selkirk

     kiss or kick?

  • Rwlawoffice

     Hockey Bob,

    You are wrong.  You have drank the revisionist kool- aid.  Look at the original documents and who the founding fathers were.  When you do that you will see the truth.  I have seen their writings and what others sere saying about them at the time.  As opposed to current academics who want to change history. 

    Understand that i am not saying that the founding fathers built a Christian nation, what I am saying is that they were devout Christians.  they were not deists as Hemant and others claim.  that is simply flat out wrong.

  • Mark

    In the province of Ontario (Canada,) Catholic schools get full public funding, but no other religions get any funding.  The government of Ontario is quite well aware that this is discriminatory, but refuses to make any changes.  In the 2007 election, the Conservative party proposed to open up school funding to all religions.  When people realized that this would include Muslim schools, the Conservative’s popularity dropped sharply, bringing victory for the incumbent Liberals.

  • Becky Shattuck

    I groaned out loud as I read this story.  

  • Patterrssonn

    Graduating exam

    1. SAU

    2. ASU

    3. SUA

    4. USA

    5. UAS

    6. All of the above

  • Reginald Selkirk

     Key word: Summum. They had a campaign to get plaques of their “seven aphorisms” placed on public land next to the ten commandments. Been a while since I’ve checked in on the progress of their court activity.

  • Sammyk

    Fucking idiots. 

  • ortcutt

    Has she never heard of the Establishment Clause?  I guess not.  If you elect people who are grossly ignorant of the law, this is what you get.

  • Rwlawoffice

     Point out these writings.  Did you know that Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society that was dedicated to delivering the Bible to all parts of the colony of Virgina? That the University of Virgina founded by Jefferson had a chaplain? That he funded one of the first english translation of the Septuagint bible for use in  America?  That the founding fathers broke from the convention at the request of  Franklin to hold three days of prayer and fasting? That Washington prayed daily on the battlefield? That letters from Adams continuously expressed his belief that the country was blessed by God? I could go on and on.

    There were over two hundred founding fathers those that signed the founding documents. You only focus on a few that you believe were less religious. 

    The truth is that the current trend is to  ignore this history because it doesn’t fit with the narrative.

  • Koyote Ken

    You’re partly correct. But I’m pretty sure instead of “Islamics” she used the phrase “ragheads”. Just sayin’……


    “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.” — Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11 1823

  • I’m not wasting my time trying to educate you. Read Jefferson’s writings for yourself.

    Do not confuse the degree of respect that Jefferson placed on certain traditions with his beliefs about Christianity. When this country formed, Christian institutions formed the foundation of much of its social structure.

    I focus on a few because most of those who signed the founding documents were hangers-on. They were not the handful of men responsible for the creation of those documents, and who insisted on the core anti-Christian ideals they embody.

  • MuzakBox

    Reading this made me want to say “Ha ha!” in my best Nelson.

  • TiltedHorizon

    “And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the
    Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed
    with the fable of the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter. ”

    Letter from Thomas Jefferson to John Adams
    April 11, 1823

     “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
    are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
    tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
    existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
    the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.  ”

    Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr
    August 10, 1787

    Clearly the writings of a devout Christian. Yep, atheists are the revisionists here.

  • Amendment100

    That’s why you find Jesus and the Bible and the Christian religion mentioned time and time again in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Treaty of Tripoli, etc, etc, etc…oh wait. Talk about revisionist history. You have no fucking clue do you?

  • Glasofruix

    No no, i’m pretty sure religious freedom is only for those who adhere to the the only “true” religion out there.

  • Brcnv

    It actually goes further up here in Canada.  In Ontario the catholic schools must have gay straight alliances that public schools have because they receive public funding.  The church absolutely hates it but they want the free taxpayer money that they’ve been sucking off the Governement teat for decades.

  • Djmcculley

    A few of the founders were devout Christians, like Samual Adams, John Jay, and Patrick Henry (who was against the ratification of the Constituition). But most of the big names were deists (Franklin, Hamilton, Monroe, Allen, Madison, Paine) or were very liberal “Christians” who didn’t accept that Jesus was divine (For example John Adams). Washigton was too secretive to say for sure, but it seems to me that he was probably a theist of some kind, but it is impossible to honestly call him a devout Christian (much less an orthodox Christian).

  • LesterBallard

    I was thinking she used something other than ragheads. Something like sand nagger.

  • “Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative
    Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want
    “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith.”


  • I don’t think the church these people associated with tells us much. That is better found in their writings, and Adams was certainly quite critical about many Christian ideas. He also espoused many deist views. You do see a trend towards stronger deism as he got older… not surprising given his early Puritan upbringing and later association with influential deists.

    Of course, a single word like “deist” can’t fully describe a person’s beliefs. While I’d consider Jefferson to be an atheist by modern standards, Adams clearly retained elements of his Christian upbringing. I’d not call him a Christian, but if that’s the word we use, it has to be understood to be very different than the sort of Christianity revisionists like RW would attribute to him.

  • curtst

    It doesn’t, but it does specifically say that the US isn’t a Christian nation.

  • In trying to understand Washington, it is interesting to consider the prayers he said (many of which are preserved in writing). His prayers were nearly all of thanksgiving, not supplication. He did not pray to Jesus, and rarely to God… most referred simply to “Providence”. So while they reflect a degree of theism, they look nothing like Christian prayers, then or now.

  • Off with her head!

  • I don’t need to even comment on this, I’ll just post quotes from the Founders.

    “Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” – US Constitution

    “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”  – Treaty of Tripoli

    Any questions? Umm, no I didn’t think so!

  • That sounds like the same issue being fought over here in the US by the Catholic church re: forcing them to provide contraceptive services.  The difference is, the church is winning the battle down here, thus having their cake and eating it too (i.e. getting government money without adhering to government rules for receiving it).

  • kraken17

    No, those are okay.

  • Dawny229

    Amazing…I can see the headlines now “Fundamentalists changing the face of America…one Mosque at a time.”

  • Blanc_Slate

    It’s crazy to imagine what America would be today had people like this woman been in charge of framing the US Constitution. My guess is it wouldn’t get far. In a hundred years or so after miraculous receiving its independence from Great Britain, they would have established a theocracy, stifled scientific progress by advocating for creationism while banning evolution in schools, and pretty much run the country down the tubes by creating very similar patterns in public policy. Or maybe the fact that the framers wanted church and state separate which is a fact that shows most in their emigration from England, explains the country’s strong start and slow progress today (if any at all). Today we have more people like this woman in power than those resembling the Framers, and that is the real tragedy of this country. 

  • Blanc_Slate

    Great example buddy

  • Sanchosverga Service

    This is one dumb bitch, is she related to palin or bachman?

  • Dan

    I agree it is dangerous to just label people based on their Church attendance, Jefferson and Washington went to Epicospalian churches (irregularly). I wouldnt call either a Christian (Jefferson absolutely wasn’t) but I do think it is better to call Adams a Unitarian Christian and explicitly say he didn’t think Jesus was eternally Divine than label him a Deist, because if you look at what he wrote about religion it is more in line with the unorthodox Unitarians than most Deists.

  • Dan

    Yes, it is hard to place Washington’s religious beliefs. I’ve read several biographies of him and even a couple books specifically about his religious beliefs, but I’m still unsure. He certainly seems closer to a deist than an orthodox Christian, but he also seems more theistic than Jefferson or Franklin. If I had to bet I’d probably say he was a non-Christian theist. How would you describe him if you had too?

  • DaveDodo007

    Voucher program for muslim madrassas, ha!

  • Rdg7768

    Religion breeds idiots.

  • Hellcat

     It is a big deal. In Ontario Catholic schools get funding. It’s wrong.We have separation of church and state. If you wish to educate your children in a religious school…you should pay for it. It is the very least we can ask that they at least adhere to some basic guidelines before we release them into the wild after grad.

  • meuch2

    The irony is delicious, enjoy your morning call to prayer.

  • DebbieW999

    They don’t want Freedom of Religion, they only want Freedom of Christianity!

  • Hockey Bob S.

    Watch it, Hemant! (And all you other godless heathens, too!)
    You keep up this line of blasphemy, and Bobby Jindahl will
    personally oversee your very own exorcism!


  •  Stupid is as stupid does. If
    you’re going to hold public office you ought to have an effin’ clue
    about what the First Amendment to the US Constitution means.  It boggles my mind that someone could manage to get elected while being that dense, but apparently, to people like Valarie Hodges, “freedom of religion” means only that you’re free to be a Christian.

  •  It’s Louisiana… ’nuff said.

    No offense intended to the minority of Louisiana citizens that are capable of rational thought.

  • Sqwidman

    What does the quote from the Constitution have to do with this? Absolutely nothing.

  • Ramswrsw

    Seriously, that idea is brilliant. I almost want to start a Louisiana Church of Satan JUST to grind their friggin’ gears!

  • C J

    The problem with these people is when they say religious freedoms they do not realize religious freedoms include EVERY religion, I do not know if you can call Atheism a religion or not (not judging just seriously curious, I mean I get they do not believe in any “God” but because religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.) so by the definition of religion Atheism is a religion but not many I know call their beliefs a religion as it tends to go against their anti god theory. I personally am a christian and I do believe in god but I also choose to let everyone follow their own path, I am not going to go thumping a bible at anyone just as I would hope no one takes their belief system and thumps it at me. I say live and let live. believe what you choose not what some one deems is the truth find it for yourself

  • Bart

    Rep Hodges is a douche bag whose command oif history is every bit as developed as her understanding of the Constitution and meaning of equal treatment under the law.

    Jindal should be impeached for intentionally violating the Constitution of the US.
    The people of Louisianna who voted for that twit can all go drown in their next hurricane for all I care.

  • Scott Rose

    I’m going to send a donation to a Sufi school in Louisiana, even though I’m an atheist. 

  • “Lighthouses are more useful than churches.” – Benjamin Franklin 

    “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it.” – John Adams 

    “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.” – Thomas Jefferson 

    Yes, those guys definitely sound like devout Christians to me.

  • Urciolo

    Don’t kid yourself, Bob – there are people like this in all 50 states. Having lived in 7 of them and three different countries outside the US, I have learned two things – (1) the U.S. is probably the greatest country in the world (at least it’s the best of the four I’ve lived in) and (2) there are idiots in every country and culture.

  • Rob

    I want nothing to do with anything that could financially support Scientology, even if it is just for lulz.

  • Strongo77

    i do believe it has everything to do with it,since the stupid bitch assigned religion to the founding fathers

  • Maestro d’Allegre

      of course you didn’t. but
    then your brain only lets two cells fire at the same time, so you can’t
    think about the consequences of your actions. Republitard.

  • English_Eco123

    “I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity…”
    What a dumbo. This lady hasn’t read 1 biography on any of the Founding Fathers. Most of them did not even affiliate themselves with any organized religion like Christianity. For example, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were Deists. It is an insult to them and to the First Amendment to say what she said.

  • Vincentgant

    Wow! This is astoundingly predjudice & beyond ignorant. EVERY religion has its nut-balls that twist it to mean what they want…INCLUDING Christianity!!! The Muslim religion itself should not be subject to religious predjudice here! This is urning into a repeat of what we did to Japanese Americans during WWII.
    The only thing that’ll work is for us as a nation to quit being self-ritious & predjudice against others for ANY reason! The better we treat others, the less popular their radical ideas are gonna be!

  • Louisiana resident

    None taken

  • Sigh

    So. Much. Anger.

    Why ignorance? WHY?!?!

  • Dan

    I’d avoid using the John Adams quote, it’s a quote mine. In context Adams is disagreeing with that view of religion.

  • JanetMermaid

    I want to move there just so I can open a Wiccan School. 

  • Bretorious

    HA HA HA!

  • Couchsurfer

    Good news for Louisiana voters though is they can hang their hat on the idea that he may be Romney’s running mate in the upcoming presidential election.

  • A Follower of Jesus

    Please let me know if you find one – I’ve been looking for Honest-to-the-Beloved Sufi schools for years.

  • phoenixmomma

     Made me laugh..

  • MNK

    It actually does. This moron is apparently completely unaware that the First Amendment applies to the states as well as the federal government, so that any time a state tries to provide funding of any kind to religious institutions, or gives them tax breaks or whatnot, such MUST apply to all religions or none at all. Choosing some and not others is a direct violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment, because that would be an act of government establishing religion and actively trying to prevent the practice of “non-approved” religions.

  • 3lemenope

    If you want to tie the two together, it’s important to point out that nobody prominent objected to that language in the Treaty of Tripoli. If the founders were so intent on the US being understood as Christian, the silence there is peculiar to say the least. If I’m not mistaken, it was also ratified without dissent in the Senate and signed by Adams himself.

  • Guest

    How the he** did she get elected?

  • MNK

    Actually I’d like to start up a few FSM schools. We’d make tons of money because the dress code for all the kids would be “pirate” and what kid wouldn’t do that in a heartbeat? Plus every day is spaghetti day!

  • Justin

    seventh in literacy. Twenty-seventh in math. Twenty-second in science. Forty-ninth in life expectancy. A hundred and seventy-eighth in infant mortality. Third in median household income. Number four in labor force and number four in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: Number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next twenty-six countries combined, twenty-five of whom are allies.
    greatest country in the world.

    wake up, kid.

  • Ben Wells

    As a non-muslim, all I can say is sorry.

  • robert smith

    Totally disagree. Any red southern state does not count. When you have lived in Boston. NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, LA, Denver give me a call. We are not the ignorant morons you claim to have lived with 

  • Chrisdavies1220

     you see I don’t think you get that what he is talking about isn’t numbers if you are going by numbers it is indeed not the best but that isn’t where his opinion is coming from I believe

  • So best Korea is best place to live then?

  • James

    You’re gonna say there’s no ignorant retards living in Boston? LA? They may not be religious retards, but they’re still pretty fucking retarded.

  • There are already Louisiana Church of Satan grottos.  All that’s left is to get them to launch a school!

  • I didn’t even have a chance to respond to your buffoonery before the other two people handed you your news.  Or maybe you responded to the wrong topic, because I am absolutely certain you can’t possibly believe the US Constitution has nothing to do with religious preferential treatment by elected officials with it comes to PUBLIC POLICY. 

  • ifolkinrock

    Anton Lavey, founder of the Church of Satan, was heavily influenced by the works of Ayn Rand. I think Republicans could get behind that. 

  • ForNein

    Are you trying to pass off a quote from a TV show as your own?

  • I_only_speak_the_truth

    she lacks concept of the constitution, the concept of founding fathers, and the concept of equality.  if I didn’t know any better I would assume she is a tea party backer.

  • Anon

     To be fair, you don’t know how he is rating greatness as he did not define it, also he poster did specify that it only included other countries they had lived in.

  • Bryan

    I agree with you, but at least put quotation marks if you’re going to steal from Aaron Sorkin.

  • NewsRoom

    Good show.

  • Seeing as Jefferson was a proper Christian and all, I suppose you would have no objection to Christian churches adopting his revision of the Bible as canon? The version with all the miracles taken out because they were obviously bullshit? 

    I mean if Great Britain uses the KJV we may as well use a translation made by one of our great men! 

  • Justin

    of course not. clearly ubiquitous enough that it’s not really necessary, but sorry, yes – that’s a quote. but you all knew that. 

  • Arandir Nova

    Uhm… A hundred and seventy-eigth in infant mortality. I’d say thats way better than first. Just saying…

  • Justin

    yes. take the most absurd extreme example as the other option.

  • Justin

    i live in NYC. trust me, there are more ignorant morons here than you’d imagine. 

    definitely not more than my time spent in north carolina, but certainly it’s fair share.

  • AdultsAreTalking

    Because it’s hard to just list the one’s America isn’t number one in, right? 

    And he said he thought it was the greatest, not stating it like a fact.

    Looks like you need to grow up, child.

  • Mitt21

    Fucking Republicans!

  • Mnshank

    What an ignorant sow.

  •  Are you really that ignorant?

  • Erik Kyren

    Good golly.  Maybe if America put more into public education we’d get better leadership.  As it is, I’m sure she’s the cream of the crop as far Louisiana is concerned. Smarter people elect better leaders, simple as that.

  • Best Korea does not agree with you.

  • Rainmaker203

    While I don’t necessarily agree with their decision, your statement that voucher programs to pay for religious schools is unconstitutional is incorrect. The supreme court ruled in 2002 that these programs DO NOT violate the establishment clause, and are constitutional under those grounds.

    See Zelman v. Simmons-Harris.

  • “them children better lern ta speak good, an’ what th’heck, better lern ’em some ritin’ an’ nummers too. An’ b’fore they grajamatate, they better lern not to spit in church.”

    Is it sad that I was able to read that without missing a beat?

  • allein

    It’s not a religion; aside from the lack of belief in God/god there’s no necessarily-shared belief system among atheists. As far as the religious freedom argument goes, however, it falls in the same category. Freedom to practice/worship as you see fit, which includes “not at all.”

  • Ggg

    The beginning of themis article is incorrect. The supreme Court ruled that the use of vouchers for private schools includes religious schools is constitutional.

  • Think people

    Apparently you people don’t understand the voucher system. Schools don’t get to “apply for funds.”

  • Upcookmichael

    He was being sarcastic, something I doubt the three are level headed enough to pick up on.

  • Ignorance does, not religion.

  • Upcookmichael

    Ever heard of sarcasm?…jesus ya’ll are thick.

  • Can I get a reach around?

  • Lol

    I picked up the sarcasm.

  • MarkNS

     They don’t “have to have” gay straight alliances. They just have to allow them if the students want to start one.

  •  Bad analogy. Allah is just Arabic for god. There’s no requirement for equal treatment of languages.

  • Campbell1373

    Can you guys not recognize sarcasm?

  • Abnerpaul18

    Has no one read the constitution? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

  • Phlurch

    As a Catholic, it pisses me off to think this is how everyone views Catholicism. We aren’t all racist bigots; there are a lot of us who are regular people. Just so everyone knows.

  • Lea Allyn

    I’m a Louisiana Democrat (yes, we do exist). I’m not religious at all but I really, really want to found a Wiccan school, call it New Hogwarts, and apply for funding.

  • Black Addah

    Seems Legit….

  • Ironic

    Louisiana is in line to become the new Florida.

  • Well if he was then my humblest apologies, though traits like sarcasm with unknown individuals over the web aren’t always clear. That’s why we have L-O-L’s & smiley faces.

  • You do pay for it. You report on your taxes which school system your kids attend, and that’s where your dollars go. And, unfortunately, the Catholic school system is enshrined in Ontario’s constitution, so we don’t have a separation of Church and State (though I agree we should!).

  • mom2pekes2

    Well said.  I appreciated reading your page and its delightful insight, where as the Louisiana government has none. Of course they would be biased.  Look at all of the FB pages praising God instead of your ‘higher power.’   If you have a faith based belief in a higher power it does not necessarily mean the higher power’s name is God.  The statement automatically eliminates the Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim and so very many more religions without a second  or perhaps even a first thought of them.  Very old saying but a favorite of mine which has probably been shortened through the years:  to each his own said the woman as she kissed the cow.

  • Stev84

    Where did you get that infant mortality number? The US is certainly bad there compared to other western countries, but 178th would make it one of the worst countries in the world.

    The CIA Fact Book places it at 49th. Below western Europe, Cuba, Israel, Japan and South Korea, but above most of eastern Europe.

  • RachelBailey

    We could use “In Zeus We Trust” or “In Odin We Trust” or the name of a thousands different gods and goddesses.

  • Jf

    Well, sarcasm is a bit hard to detect within written text.

  • skreem

    Please don’t say you just threw Pagans and Wiccas (who are in general fantastic people) together with Scientology and Mormonism (who are absolute nutjobs).

  • Stev84

    Sadly, they were way too optimistic about the direct influences of the Enlightenment on religion. I don’t think they could have imagined that in 200 years things would be worse in the US than then.

  • butcher99

    Sorry, you cannot do that.  THAT would be against the constitution.  Freedom of religion remember?   Why should Muslim tax payers be forced to help pay for Christian schools if Christians do not also have to pay for Muslim schools.  Sometimes you just get what you wished for, you just were uncertain of what it was you were wishing for

  • Xil

     When people say America is the greatest country in the world, they say it because of the amount of freedom people have. Go to Europe, try to start your own business, it’s a nightmare in comparison. In Germany I can’t even cut down a tree on my own property without first getting permission from the town.

  • Stev84

    It’s  lack of religion. And a lack of faith. There is a philosophical side to it, such secular humanism as an ethical framework. But there is nothing supernatural about it and no dogma or central books and teachings exist. No houses of worship. No leaders with authority.

    As far as the law is concerned though, atheism is treated as a religious belief. It’s why freedom of religion or anti-discrimination laws also apply to atheists for example.

  • Stev84

    And Citizens United was clearly also a correct interpretation of the constitution. The Supremes aren’t always right and sometimes they even change their own opinions. Sadly, in recent years they are on a bit of a theocratic streak.

  • A factor in the USA’s abysmal infant mortality rate is that we try to save premature babies that other countries don’t.  So some of our infant moralities would count as miscarriages elsewhere.  There’s a lot of health care we don’t do well, but premature babies is one we actually do very well.

  • Cjwdeepsea

    The idea that mormons could be considered as nutty as scientologists is absurd. Having known people from both faiths I can say this for certain.

  • mom2pekes2

    Your reply sir was priceless! Please, let us not forget the barefoot and pregnant concept of the old south.

  • Mlb10523

    He said “the perfect satanist is really an atheist.”

  • eagle5000ksa

     unfortunately you know nothing about islam http://www.youtube.com/user/0070sa/videos

  • Adamross321

    Well, in Boston they’re wikkid retahded

  • Eric Roberts

    I know some Pagans that might want to jump in on this hehehe.  

  • Steve Davis

    Bill Maher said it best, “Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual position.” which is about as clear as you can say it. its the ABSENCE of a religious belief, not in place of one. 

  • Azoomer

    I wanna be a “Satanist”!  =D

  • mambobananapatch

     By appealing to hordes upon hordes of retarded hillbilly religious clods.

  • EricHammer

    Every religion is chock full  of nutjobs, none of the stories are any more ridiculous than the other.  Christians who believe in zombie magic look silly when they make fun of xenu or that Joseph Smith nonsense.


  • EricHammer

     There are plenty of places in America with the same rule, depending on the height of the tree

  • No pretty sure 
    Rdg7768 had it right.

  • We’re so low ranked in infant mortality because in the USA if the infant has or was thought to have a heartbeat when the mother went into labor, it’s counted as a baby for infant mortality statistics – even if it’s so premature that other countries would have called it a miscarriage.  In many countries, even first world ones, infants who die in labor or even hours or days later are listed as stillbirths or miscarriages, and thus affect neither infant mortality rates nor average lifespan.

  • *yawn* unfortunately you think atheists have never seen any Islamic apologetics before.

  • Can I purchase religion insurance?  Since she wants to insure against vouchers being used for religions other than Christianity.  Hahahahahahaha!


  • Brooke Hanna

    That data wasn’t even correct.  According to the CIA World Factbook for 2011 (the latest data available), the US was 174th, not 178th, out of a list of 222 countries.  Flip that around, and that means we were the 48th worst in the world for infant mortality.  That’s not good at all.  We just barely beat Croatia by 0.08 percentage points.  Cuba was nine spots ahead of us on the list.  Out of all the developed nations in the world, the US is the worst.  Twenty years ago, the US used to be ranked around 28th.  It gets worse every year.

  • Scutter123

    I think you missed the part where ‘Arandir Nova’ was actually too stupid to know that the top of the infant mortality rate was not a desired image to portray.

  • Wow c’mon separation of church and state. They’re alreay tax exempt they need to be subsidized as well? Double U Tee Eff.

  • She has probably read as much bible as she has history, which for the vast majority of Christians, is “not a lick.”

  • If god plans to drown louisiana, surely she will tell some guy to build an arc first…

  • Melanie

    Idiot, did you even read the article?

  • Brooke Hanna


  • Worldgate

    Two wrongs don’t always make a right, but they are frequently hilarious.

  • Shipoopi

    Ya but they aren’t actually the diestic Satanists that Christianity thinks they are.  They really only use it as a way to rile up religious people.  Thats part of why he says that, they don’t really hail Satan.

  • Ryanissad

    I’m sad now. I live in Louisiana, I knew people were stuipt, but now know how far these assholes will go to get a damn vote! Am very sad and moving out of here as soon as possible.

  • David

    I think it’s a great idea. Most religions are hiding behind a sroud of secrecy only found in the temple. the idea brings a few points to the table that must be considered. the benefits which consist from private education, and the entitlement that every child could have a strong valuable education with plenty of funding are really tentalizing when it comes to the current state of our academics. Also by bringing forth the religion to the kids, we can fianally know what’s their made of. you wouldn’t a kid how to kill a goat for sacrifice, after his chemistry class would you? How can all these concepts be properly taught to a child, in order for them to acquire certain values that faith provides. Whatever hatred can be teached from these old books (bible/ quaran) must be carefully examined.

    jews, muslims, catholics, christians, buddist, satanist. we can all be friends if we grow up with one another. america’s school system is a total corrupt failure guided by the religion of money greed and corruption that seem to be what all the government offficials follow. if only the money used towards these failed school systems and loan collectors (i’m thinking college kids drowning in debt) could be used for parks and places of common gathering. I think if you mix those two, social projects and private education with values and peaceful and happy faith up bringing, then i think it could work..


  • Ryanissad

    And am a idiot. I miss spelled stupid and feel stupid.

  • McKulty

    I can’t cut down a tree without a permit and I’m in the Republican Deep South.

  • David

    dictated but not read

  • I’m not sure what “right” is. SCOTUS doesn’t always produce decisions that lead to a healthier or better society. Occasionally (but not often) they produce a ruling so misguided that a later court actually reverses it. But good or bad, their decisions do, absolutely, define constitutionality.

  • David

    it’s ok man, i’m a satanist. As such I understand your pain because i love being in constant despair. they taught me loving despair and sadness in 4th grade so i can relate to you as a human of whatever religion you are. you’ll be ok

  • Wil

    Read the first clause. Do you get it now? The first clause is what’s relevant. 

  • David

    oh i bet those kids would know a lot about the origins of many of the holidays we know now adays.. considering most of the ones we celebrate still are

  • fuckoff modernworld

    respectfully she gives us right wing nuts a bad name; she is tooo nutty to be tea party (and I’ve been active in TPM since beginning).

  • David

    i’d love for my satanic kid to hang out with your islamic child and see them get along. Yours would probably be a computer programmer by 10 while mine would know all the best quotes from marquis de sade 

  • Animal63

    How about the Church of Cthulu applying for funds? And the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

  • formeralaskantoo

    i live in minneapolis suburb.  they elected michelle “batshit’ bachmann and jesse “the body’ ventura.  not to mention timmeh pawlenty.  don’t tell me the land of 10,000 lakes isn’t swimming in stupid

  • David

    i’m a black catholic. I’m really nice, I feel bad for lucifer for falling for the heavens and i’m pretty sure he must have been one hell of a racist bigot. empathy is what they taught me at my private catholic school. I think hispanics make the best catholics though, all else are lazy and unfaithful. My priest was hispanic

  • Isilzha

    Faith is not something we should be teaching children.

  • Animal63

    Jeff Daniels’ character in “The Newsroom” nailed it dead center there.

  • Terminaljive

    I think I read somewhere that Satanism is basically accepting that people have desires which make them sin, and teaches us that there is no shame in it, versus other religions which teach that you MUST repent for your sins. Of course. I’m an atheist, so I don’t claim to know this is 100% what the point of Satanism is.

  • balzac

    I am fairly certain he was pointing out that it was a cumbersome phrase that, when taken literally, seemed like a decent thing. It’s not funny when you have to explain the joke.

  • Isilzha

    I’ve learned that if I plan on flinging aroudn some (usually well deserved) insults that I better spell them correctly!  Otherwise, it’s just not pretty.

  • Isilzha

     Doesn’t matter, I don’t want any version of Islam or any religion near me.  I especially don’t want my government providing funding for any religion for any reason.

  • David

    let congress just put the money where their mouths are and fund all religions to be equally allowable as a pursuit of happiness. Their decision would not be a direct law on religion since they would put money towards the collective fund of all religions and let them have a fair share

  • Isilzha

     No, a good portion of your priests seem to be pedophiles and the rest of them provide support for them to freely prey on the kids.

  • Closed minded “Americana Christians” make me wanna barf! I just want to gently set my spiritual teachings aside for a moment and slap the shit out of her!

  • Andrewwhite1977

    what about muslim flight schools?

  • David

    i’d like for my kid to have faith in something so that he’s not anxious or depressed when he’s confused about something. How about math which is the most objective, definitive, and true? I want my kid to have faith in math. Any math based religions want to take me kid in? 

  • Isilzha

     Dude, that doesn’t make a lick of sense.

  • cock cancer

    But, can she count to potato?

  • jtst

    We need to apply for a grant to start the Pastafarian Academy of the Noodly Arts. If they don’t give it to us, we sue for religious persecution.

  • David

    I agree, faith is not something I should be teaching children. I’m usually too tired to try to explain my kid religion, on sundays i just want to go to the ball game and eat ice cream with my family while we play i spy 666. i’d rather have someone else (like a true theologian) teach faith to my little punk

  • Matt

    and those Buddhist that believe in balance and harmony. Just Crazy!

  • Isilzha

    What the frak did I just read?

    No one should be teaching faith to kids; better to teach them about the real world, science, evidence and how to test assumptions about the world.  Faith is unnecessary.

  • David

    You mean like Hijra? When the Great Profet Muhammad and his followers flew from Mecca to Medina?

  • Isilzha

    Can’t tell if (bad) Poe…or Troll…???

  • “Faith is pretending to know things you don’t know”
    —  Dr. Peter Boghossian


  • Isilzha

    Apparently they won’t ever learn since they are desperately trying to create a despotic christian theocracy. 

  • Guest1234

    You so rarely see these things come to their natural, logistic fruition. It’s refreshing to see that someone who supports this ridiculousness actually got bit back by the system she abused.

  • Chelsea

    Someone do this. PLEASE.

  • David

    Faith in something can spread to faith in many other things are kids go through to adulthood. I never knew to have faith in myself until my late 20s, my parents TOLD me to have faith but never taught me HOW to have faith. School taught me how to have faith in something.. which I later found unnecessary but i still have the “idea” of how to have faith in something in my brain. That part proved worthwhile

  • Isilzha

    Well, they all do belong to the group which Summer defined as ones “which literally shock Christians to the core”. 

    Though I find some of their politics more tolerable (ie, liberal), I still find many pagans as arbitrarily dogmatic as any other religious groups I’ve encountered.

  • David

    I don’t know jack about how I’m alive here on earth and my brain is commanding my finger muscles to type this response but I like pretend I know how to be alive

  • Isilzha

     That’s not FAITH!  It’s confidence in your abilities, capabilities and potential.  It’s something you can test, learn about, hone, practice, etc.  It’s NOT fraking FAITH!

  • Fletchernick2

    Does she know that NONE of the founding fathers were Christian?

  • David

    ok so..
    “I have faith that 2+2 is 4”

    “I have confidence that my wife is not sleeping with another man (but she is)”

    what’s the difference between having faith and confidence. Can’t you have confidence in your faith? or faith in your confidence? 


  • So, you don’t know how you are alive, but you know how to be alive?  I don’t seen any pretending there.  I think we all know how to be alive just fine.

  • Karyn

    I’m 48 years old, but I would lie about my age just so I could attend that school.

  • Isilzha

    Well, I already did, but you’re just a  religious troll trying to bait the atheists into “admitting” that faith exists and is needed.  Confidence is something that is learned, tested, practiced, etc.  Faith is just blind, rigid belief or hope in something. 

    Plus, you’re also trying to prey upon the fuzzy nature of language to somehow “catch us out” putting our “faith” in something.  For instance, I COULD say that I have faith that religious trolls like you will show up periodically trying to sound smart and failing miserably.  However, that’s not really true faith because we actually could test and prove that this phenomenon happens on an irritatingly regular basis. 

    By the way 2+2=4 is NOT knowledge based on FAITH!  It’s defined and provable.  It also means something in the physical world.  I’m sure the next time you go shopping and the cashier shorts you $4 that you don’t have faith it’ll magically appear later in your wallet.

  • David

    Actually I know how I’m alive as a functioning organism, just not why. I don’t know how to be alive as much, I feel depressed about many things a lot of the time. 

  • Guest

    our founding fathers werent christian

  • guinnessblaine

    Satan High?  Go Devils!

  • It’s confidence based on evidence.  You know there’s a high probability that you can do Z because you’ve already done X and Y.

    Believing something is possible or likely based on evidence isn’t faith.

  • guinnessblaine

    “Anyone who thinks differently than I do has problems!”

  • It will be faith when you start proclaiming that you know why you’re here.

  • Isilzha

     We could sell the rights to Marvel (??) and have it say “In Thor We Trust”.  Then we can start printing some money with advertising and movie tie-ins.  I suppose it can only be the $1 bills since they have a high turn over and we’d want to sell the rights again sometime soon.

  •  While pagans and wiccans may be less dangerous and fascist than some other religious nuts, they still believe nonsense with absolutely no evidence. I’d say they’re all equally nutty…they just differ in the degree to which they try to fuck with the freedom of others.

  • Dan

    Not sure if your post is sarcasm, it probably is but I have unfortunately seen a few people make the same false claim. John Jay, Samuel Adams, and Patrick Henry are a few examples of Orthodox Christian founders, but it is true that most of the big names were Deists or Unitarians.

  • Helgeandshuset

     North Korea? he he he

  • Isilzha

     Just so you’re clear–even atheists will use the word “faith” in casual conversation, however, they are not using it in a way that you so desperately WANT them to mean it.  I can SAY that I have “faith” the sun will rise tomorrow.  However, my assertion is not at ALL based on faith.  It’s based on all the sunrises I’ve experienced in my life PLUS the proof of all the sunrises that have happened in the past.  Based on that history, knowledge, evidence, proof, etc, I can say with close to 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow morning (and, with science, can even say what TIME it will rise).

  • Isilzha

    I recommend education to remedy that horrible gap in your knowledge.  There are many classes which can help you understand the physiology of the brain, how muscles work, the motor functions of the brain, nerves, etc.  THEN…you can start learning about the difference between ultimate and proximate explanations. 

    Well, I guess you’re at least spending some time outside your normal comfort zone.  Still, I do suggest a REAL education.  It’ll open your eyes quite a bit!

  • Isilzha

     Ok, David, I’m going to clue you into one of the secrets of the universe.  The “WHY” isn’t really all that important.  In the vast, grand scheme of things, your “why” is of miniscule insignificance.  You really need to spend an hour in the REAL Total Perspective Vortex.  Seriously, there are more stars than grains of sand on our entire planet.  There are planets which orbit those stars.  We are just SO, VERY, VERY small.  I know that’s very difficult for you religious nuts to digest, but that’s the truth.  We are just NOT the center of the universe. 

  • shawn_von_socialist

    “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
    ~George Washington

    “Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”
    ~George Washington

     “The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
    ~John Adams

    “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
    ~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams

     “Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
    We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”
    ~Thomas Jefferson

    i can go on and on and on and on and on and on

    google nerp a derp

  • Isilzha

     We can define our own “whys”, but just realize that there is NO divine mandate.

  • shawn_von_socialist

    you can come slap me anytime lol

  • Isilzha

    or…Pastafarian Academy of Science, Technology and Art (PASTA)?

  • Lifer79

    Scientology doesn’t need financial assistance, it’s fundamental principles are based around the rich and powerful anyway so they have enough of their own. 

  • Satan High school mascot should be the angels. It would be ALOT more hilarious 

  • Cheer up, Ryan, you’re just distraught. You’re smart enough to see things clearly, and not agree with the ignoramuses around you.  

  • Isilzha

    Getting stuck in the nihilism loop can be very depressing.  I still struggle with it.

  • Justinm1619

    I like how you said this. Our mascot at my high school was the “Blue Devils” and an offended mother wrote a letter to the school complaining that it wasn’t very Christian, and that it should be changed to the “Blue Angels.”

  • Eunichman

    “I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s
    Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or
    private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

    Actually, many of the founding fathers were either Atheist or Theists, both of which are VERY different from Christianity… and the thought that we have an elected official using their office to push ONE religion down our throats is not only unconstitutional, but abhorrent!

  • I called it, Hemant. I need to start making bets on this stuff.

    *Suddenly see separation of church and state as a good thing. *

  • eatfuckingshitanddie

    “deistic schools” lol. Nice one Hemant.

  • Steve Davis

    Kevin: he’s a politician. They don’t reach around, they reach under.

  • Falcon

     Satan High, home of the Fallen Angels.

  • Falcon

    Buddhism isn’t a religion, it is a way of life. I know a number of Buddhist Christians and at least one Buddhist Jew.

  • Well, since all devils are fallen angels it would be appropriate as  well as biblical

  • Ben sensat

    I live in Louisiana, how do I contact this woman?

  • YES, I would too if i was in that cucku state…..

  • Nick Blow

    The church of satan’s official stance is an atheist one. They don’t actually worship Satan. It’s based on the Jewish origins for the word, which means to rebel IIRC.

  • TiltedHorizon

     “Did you know that Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society that was dedicated to delivering the Bible to all parts of the colony of Virgina?”

    The “Bible Society of Virginia” was founded in 1813 in
    Richmond. Thirteen men were designated to serve as
    the inaugural managers in 1813: Reverend John Buchanan (president), Reverend John D. Blair (vice-president), Reverend Jacob Grigg (vice-president), Reverend Jacob H. Rice (corresponding secretary), William Munford (recording secretary), Samuel Greenhow (treasurer), Archibald Blair, William Mayo, Robert Quarles, George Watt, Reverend John Bryce, William Fenwick, and Alexander M’Rae. Does anyone else notice Jefferson’s name is missing?

    “That the University of Virgina founded by Jefferson had a chaplain?”

    Odd, the only source I can find which supports you are quotes from David Barton, an evangelical Christian minister, who coincidentally is also the source for “Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society”. All other historical sources I find indicate both facts are incorrect.

    Septuagint bible, David Barton again. I am seeing a pattern. It seems you think David Barton’s conclusions, which are not supported or echoed by historians, is somehow credible solely on the basis of his say so. You may want to close your zipper, your bias is showing.

  • Stev84

    Mormonism has some whacky space stuff too. They just keep it somewhat hidden, so it’s not so easily found unless someone is really looking for it

  • Stev84

    That John Adams quote too shows that they were hopelessly optimistic about the future of religion. They seemingly thought that Enlightenment ideas would reduce religious influence to near insignificance in the foreseeable future.

  • David Ellis

    But hold on….  Aren’t these the same Christians that are always going on about how they’re being persecuted?

  • Isilzha

    Oh…so you’re CERTAIN…well, that’s all the evidence I fraking need.

    Dude, they’re ALL absurd fraking nutcases!!!

  • Isilzha

     woah…yah, know…that’s exactly what I was fraking thinking!!

  • Isilzha


  • insure /=/ ensure

  • Sindigo

    Really? Ain’t ya’ll got the Googler? I’m in the UK and I found it:

    Representative Valarie Hodges
    District 6435055 LA Hwy. 16, Suite 2ADenham Springs, LA 70706Email: hodgesv@legis.la.govP: 225.791.2199Fax:  225.791.9203 

    And I’m sorry about the “ain’t y’all” thing. Just teasing. 😉

  • infernalpudding

    This would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic.

  • zdrav

    The American conservative dictionary:

    People = White people

    Americans = Conservative white people

    Religion = Christianity (but not of the ecumenical and liberal sort)

  • The First Louisiana Church of Satan must be built!

  •  Grammar Nazi High could have the alot as its mascot.

  • BlackJackIGN

    Huh, I never knew there were such things as Muslim Schools… Guess Australia is kinda messed then aye?

  • Winbox

     SHE = CUNT

  • Danny Milosavljevic

    I know what you’re trying to say but to atheist’s standards, Buddhism is a religion because you have to believe that getting rid of stress is possible FOR YOU and until you actually are free of stress, it is just a belief – in something someone told you. It’s unfortunate, given how much of it is scientific and based on fact, but that’s how it is. There have to be axioms somewhere 🙁

  • Fire_child

    unfortunately, you are wrong about the US being the greatest country in the world. What is the US best at? Certainly not academics, which is the topic here…

    “The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.” 
    Now this was done in 2010, so there could be some positive improvements, however I have spoken to many teens in several states across the US, not many of them can even spell. They can use text language…but not regular English… This is disgusting to see the dumbing of our children, because we are so bothered with the shit Congress and the Government are doing we are refusing to actually educate our children! AND now this unconstitutional program…WTF America WE NEED TO WAKE THE HELL UP!!!

  • BobDodds

    A lot of Pagans and Wiccans are hardcore skeptics who are more interested in making use of the psychological effects of ritual and symbol systems than in actually believing that any of it is objectively true.

  • BobDodds

    Yep.  It’s the Temple of Set that would really drive the Christians wild if they probed behind the names and looked into the actual doctrines.

  • An Alot is perfect mascot!

  • Aldajjal

    They are about to have an even bigger surprise, when it comes to Wiccan schools and Satanic seminars. 🙂

  • Sandbox Noun

    Church of Chuck Norris. Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster. Church of Kopimism (free computers, all night long lan parties :D). I like the way you’re thinking.

  • Shanereid

    dont joke about scientology.
    those people need help.

  • Glasofruix

    Why have you auto censured the word HELL?

  • Lasaluki

    “When Gos wants to punish you he answers your prayers!”

  • Noodelz1231

    What a fucking bitch.

  • Marc Voller

    Church of the Fonz all the way! EEyyyyyy!

  •  A lot of catholics don’t buy into transubstantiation or any of the other dogmatic nonsense…but that doesn’t make catholicism any less whacky. People who just want to dance in the forest but don’t buy into the supernatural woowoo are just fine…but why call themselves wiccans or pagans then?

  •  Mormons (along with hindus, muslims and all the various flavours of christianity) believe in nonsense that is no less whacky than Xenu and the scientology bunkum. Scientology is just newer.
    Virgin births, original sin, talking serpents, a celestial home where you will live forever as a god…
    Totally. Fucking.  Insane.

  • I don’t need to joke about scientology.

    They already are a joke.

  • MLE

    They would leave, but the education system is so bad, they can’t read maps.

    Ba bum ching.

    Also, I remember hearing the unofficial motto of Arkansas is “Thank God For Mississippi” because while Arkansas might be ranked 49th in a whole lot of statistics, Mississippi gets ranked 50th and saves Arkansas from being known as the “worst”

    Louisiana is not that much higher on that list.

  • MLE

    There is an entire industry dedicated to revisioning history for these people. Some apparently got it in their heads that anything that’s printed must be accepted as the truth, regardless of whether or not it’s fact.

  • How much longer are we going to allow states to violate the Constitution of the United States? The state cannot support a religious institution or a religion. What is so hard to understand about that? Politicians who try to do this need to be thrown out of office because they either don’t understand the Constitution, in which case they don’t need to be making laws. Or, they understand the Constitution but have decided to make laws against it, in which case they have betrayed the US Constitution and need to immediately be impeached. Can you imagine if this was the other way around? Can you imagine if government funds had been granted to a religious non-Christian school? The Christian right would still be crying “persecution.”

  • there is nothing that can be said to mitigate or lessen the sheer ignorance of these people. real nice job, representative. that big ol’ horse you let roll through the gates of Louisiana . . .who’s gonna open the trap door to see what wonders lie inside.

  • Holliewalker36

    It still blows my mind that 46% of our population believes in creationism. This woman is an idiot. It’s a shame people like her get any position in our government. This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom. She needs to take a history lesson.

  • I bet you ended up going to college at Duke, too. You heathens are gonna drag this country down with your intelligence and open minds

  • Mormon magic underwear, gold tablets from an angel, not allowing Mormon youth to view any website except for mormon.org, forcing Mormon youth to go door-to-door for two years, polygamy, god is solid flesh and bone?
    Yeah…nothing nutty there.

  • MNK

    But what’s interesting is that many of the Christian founding fathers weren’t really founding fathers at all – not in the sense of the men who wrote our Constitution and came up with the federalist structure of our government. They may have been signatories to the Declaration, but those are not “founding fathers” – they founded nothing. Madison, Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin, Sherman…. those are founding fathers.

  • MNK

    Brilliant. And like I suggested earlier, it would be a major money-maker because the official dress code is “pirate.”

  • dorisfrench

    This is the problem with the Republicans they want to have their way, but only them not other people.

  • Munch

     This was interesting to look in to. Thank you.                                                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum#Summum_and_the_Ten_Commandments

  • ArrogantDemon


    So, wait, they passed some ALEC bill, and now are mad they didnt think it though and people other than Christians might want to use vouchers for non-christian religious schools…..


    Oh, these conservatives, it would be high order comedy if it wasnt so tragic and detrimental, oh dear god

  • Firechild

    “Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” – US ConstitutionThis has already been breached by Obama in HR347, which he signed into law in private…GOOGLE IT!!!… According to the ACLU(if that is actually a reliable resource) you have already lost your right to free speech and this is just another violation of the constitutional rights of the people…and do you know what will happen? nothing…absolutely nothing…we can sit here and talk about it until the cows come home…but the reality is…this is a done deal and now it will not be changed…it will be swept under the carpet and hushed…just like all of the controversial decisions the government makes for you and with out your vote…

  • Rbnlegen101

    I would need a permit from my county and approval from my HOA, here in VA.

  • M8r-bhaha2

    I think the problem was that Scientology is much more harmful and cult like than the rest of the bunch.

  • Someone really needs to read this politician on of America’s oldest Documents, The Treaty of Tripoli.  Article 11 CLEARLY states ”  As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”  IE…  The Founding Father’s never founded this country based on Christian religion.

    ‘Nuff said.

  •  I suppose you would need to actually define ‘christian’ to determine is someone was one,  and no one has yet done that to the satisfaction of all ‘christians.’  Yet, if you did not  believe in the divinity of christ, it is difficult to believe you were a devout christian (I’m not sure what a non-devout christian is though).  Perhaps the jefferson bible is a good example of liking good things and discarding BS.

  • Czechreck

    I see what you did there

  • Munch

    The original article quotes a school superintendent one Bill Spear as saying. “124 of the 125 voucher-approved schools have some sort of religious affiliation” and by the by hers a link for the bill. http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=793655

  • Michael

     Because that stuff is fun?

  • Produent

    Involving oneself with the church of Scientology is NEVER a brilliant idea.

  • Michael

     I think the only axiom of Buddhism is take whatever you wan from this philosophy, if something doesn’t seem right to you, don’t do it. It really is a flexible “religion” I put it in quotation marks because it is a loose religion and doesn’t really restrict you. I’ll give an analogy. Most religions are forceful, they put you in walls and lead you down one path, Buddhism is an open field with many paths that are not enclosed, meaning you can bridge from one to another, you can wander a bit, and you can always go back to where you started.

  • Oleg

    Sadly, but not all founding fathers were Christian (there are many articles on the net regarding that).
    So let’s no  put founding fathers above Lord Jesus Christ, but let’s praise God and Jesus only.

  • prvkng.urthinking

    She may be applying that she does not support an institute which pr0motes the terrorism because many think that the Muslim educational centers are teaching and promoting the terrorist groups.  This does not mean that she hates the Muslim community or is not concerned about the welfare of Muslim community–she simply maybe covering her back as to, she is not in support of terrorism and the state money shall not be used in that manner.

  • Njkahok

    This is why you Americans are so hated and you wonder why you have a target on your backs

  • Blurring the lines between philosophy and religion doesn’t help your credibility, I’m afraid. It just strengthens damaging stereotypes.

  • This behaviour is exactly in keeping with the ‘founding fathers’. Those who came to the US to escape religious persecution were coming because they were considered too extreme in the old countries. The didn’t want more religious freedom. They wanted less and they wanted theirs to be the only form of christianity out there. 

    However it is definitely contrary to those dignitaries at the time of independence such as Ben Franklin. That was the age of reason and many were either atheist or at least liberal christians or agnostic.

  • Oleg

    Sadly, but not all founding fathers were Christian, some were rather antichrist (search for articles on net for evidence).
    So let’s not put founding fathers above God, but let’s honor and praise God and Lord Jesus Christ only.

  • mcac

     I have always thought of them as kind of a mix between hedonists and Libertarians.

  • Jose

    digital archeologists in the far future will use this to paint a picture of how our society devolved and how we destroyed ourselves!

  • nosedigger

    I want to start a school for the FSM.  Sow me the money!

  • Honestly, she’s an idiot, but I still believe in voucher programs. I just happen to believe that it’s okay to fund Islamic schools, Christian schools, public schools… whatever schools. Vouchers level the field for what options parents have and parents/children come in a ton of flavors. As long as they are passing state minimums/guidelines, voucher away. Bigots suck, but that doesn’t mean vouchers are wrong.

  • Stev84

    Voucher schools rarely have to follow any guidelines which has led to huge amounts of fraud in some states.

  • Anti-crush

    Please explain to the world why anecdotal evidence is not proof of anything, certain or otherwise.

    P.S.  Based on our common reality, they must be, at best, equally nutty.

  • Kari Lynn

    Hey! Don’t insult sows! They are smart, clean animals (despite the stereotype), something that this woman is not.

  • Brian Scott

    Because neopagan religions tend to be orthopraxic: belief is irrelevant. You participate in rituals, you’re a pagan Harry, doesn’t matter what you believe.

    Meanwhile, Catholicism still has a dude in a similarly funny hat and dress saying that being Catholic means “Credo in unum Deum”. While Catholicism is chock full of ritual, you are still ultimately bound by faith. You can’t deny the existence of God or disagree with certain points of dogma and still be considered in communion with the RCC.

  • That might be true, but they should still be able to get funding through this program like everyone else.

  • Yeah, as far as I see it there really is no distinction between  the  belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree, and believing in “magik”.

  • OedipusRex99

     Shocking! Great ammo for her next opponent….

    ” Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson) voted in favor of legislation that would allow public funds meant for public schools to be used to fund Muslim schools.”

     That would definitely be on my campaign literature if I were running against her.

  • Jack the Bodiless

    Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson) = Village Idiot

  • Woo, go Cathars!

  • The Noodley Appendage will be pleased- Since Pastafarianism is the one true truth

  • Rodneyharpe7

    I wish there was a hell for them to go to.

  • Fodder

    As an “I was raised Catholic, but I’m OK now”: yes, yes you are.

  • Savana – California

    Love it, I absolutely love it


    If you really want to piss them off, make the mascot Jesus.

  • Red

    The ignorance of some of these elected officials is staggering.

  • Cara

    Absolutely disgusting.

  •  Because one of us is an idiot?  You need to get a grip, fella.

  • I dislike the mocking and superior tone of this article, even if Valerie Hodges deserves it for being such a fool.  

  • skyshoes

    Madrassas are us. Illiterates in government.

  • Jamesmarkwell

    Two words.. Magic underwear.. C’mon.. I am married into a Mormon family. One man’s space ship is another man’s underwear.. Believing any of it is nutty. A devout scientologist is no nuttier than a devout Hale Bopian or Scientologist.

  • Jamesmarkwell

    Yeah, scientology is more harmful because they started the crusades, molest young boys, and blew up the world trade center.. oops.. I see what I did there. They are ALL dangerous and nutty. Scientology is just too new to have started any wars.

  • Kari Lynn

    If she deserves it, then why do you dislike it?

  • Clark Cox

    Make the mascot a dark, middle-eastern Jesus 🙂

  • Ganderson1906
  • Reubarbarian

    With a satanic apostrophe as the mascot!

  • Shrinkidink

    I love these heart-warming “hoist by their own petard” stories. I’ll bet that whole Separation of Church and State thing is beginning to seem like a darn good idea right about now.

  • wiretappuh

    I think he’s referring to the culture of unapologetic, overconfident, hypocritical shittyness.

  • Muslim>>MuslimCatholic>>CatholicFundamentalist Protestants>>Conservative Christian?A little objectivity just too much for you? Your disgust and bias towards Christians as a people group is showing through…

  • wiretappuh

    Yeah, about that…

  • Sarah Long

    The Fallen Angels

  • Matt Koegler

    Unfortunately for Ms. Hodges argument, the Founding Fathers were not all Christians. Many, and I believe it was a slight majority but I’m not positive, someone correct me if I’m wrong, were Deists. They believed in God but not in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Kinda silly to call someone a Christian if they don’t believe Jesus Christ was the son of God.

  • Rwlawoffice

     I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be:
    sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. Thomas Jefferson letter to Benjamin Rush April 1803.

    I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Thomas Jefferson letter to Charles Thompson 1816.

  • Ramen1

    Ooooh, I can wait to meet in an Italian Restaurant and be blessed by his Noodly appendage and a free meal to boot!  RAMEN!

  • Jbagwell

    I guess people have forgotten that this country was founded because people wanted separation of church and state and religious freedom for everyone.

  • Pink_elephant

    Because we all know that Jesus had blue eyes, pale skin, and red hair…. Just like the pictures in all the churches LMAO

  • matt

     That’s a joke right?

  • miserableoldfart

    Gee, she’s an idiot and has no plans to hide it.  Good show!

  • Papiloco007

    This is so hilarious. I was for the voucher plan because of the opportunity for some students. But after I read this idiots comment The Church of Satan High School sounds good if only in principle!

  • Rwlawoffice

     Simply wrong and the product of modern revisionists.  The founding fathers were indeed Christians and devout ones at that.  Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence over 25 of them were seminary graduates. Benjamin Franklin, during the constitutional convention called for three days of prayer and fasting in order to break from a deadlock.   He wrote :

    As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I
    think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the
    best the world ever saw or is likely to see. Letter to Ezra Stiles 1790.

    These are quotes from Thomas Jefferson:

    I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.
    Letter to Charles Thomson 1816.

    I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be:
    sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. Letter to Benjamin Rush 1803.
    Jefferson attended the Capital church in DC every week, required that the students at the University of Virgina attend chapel, funded the translation of the Greek Septuagint into an English Bible, funded the Thompson Bible,

  • The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster wants equal time!

  • How many different flavours of stupid are there in the world?

  • Kevin

    I cannot fucking believe how insane and uneducated these people are.  How can you be a politician not realize that this bullshit is not only a bad idea, but completely unconstitutional?  She deserves to be horse-whipped for stupidity.  

  • Sparrow 66

    soooo, does any see the irony in this statement?

  • Also Giants, or Nephilim. Need to have multiple team names for the Satanic Youth Athletic Association, SYAA. 

  • EviLaz

    Such an awesome thing couldn’t happen to a bigger group of idiots.

  • Hodges’ bigotry is perhaps only rivaled by her ignorance of constitutional and legal principles.

    The current Republican party in a nutshell. Ignorant bigots, incapable of grasping the result of their own miserably ignorant policies.

  • Sharkydog

    As someone who was raised a Christian, in Christian schools, I have to say: This woman is an idiot. What did she think was going to happen? Public schools are not, and should never be, places of worship. The thought of taxpayer dollars going to Christian schools, or Islamic schools, or Buddhist schools, or Judaical schools is so completely against what our Founding Fathers would have wanted that this whole situation would have been laughable, if it just wasn’t so stupid. Even Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” The irony here is palpable.

  • Michael A.

    To be a Buddhist, you have to believe in a handful of key principles which are scientifically unprovable at this stage of our global culture. These include Karma, Nothingness, and that a man named Siddhattha Gotama found a method to remove all karma from your consciousness. Those that practice these methods or uphold this cosmology can be considered Buddhists. 

  • GregForest

    You can bet your bottom dollar the Scientologists are already all over this. If there is $ on the wind, they can sniff it out like a greedy bloodhound. Poor Jindle.

  • GregForest

    You must not be an American! Don’t you know you can NEVER have too much money. Buy more now!

  • Parking Parking

    Rep. Hodges makes some great points here. I wish she was my state Rep. 

  • GregForest

    I thought that it was scientifically proven that Buddhist monks can raise their body temperatures through meditation. You have to go to hell to do that as a Christian.

  • Legion_prime

    I am a non-denominational Christian but even I believe that funding should be for schools who teach education, not religion. We cannot afford to start a stupid war on religion now in this country. If they want funding for a Catholic school, or a Muslim school, or a Christian school, let them do it like any other institution that wants to be privatized for the children that it wants attending. Save the money for the public education system where most of the kids have to go anyways.

  • Eliablackhouse

    lol. I had not heard that one.

  • There are Muslims in Louisiana? 

  • nominalize

    It almost happened, over a hundred years ago.


  • Rwlawoffice


    The fact that the founding fathers were Christian is based upon their writings, their actions, and the thoughts of those that knew them. There are over 200 men that signed our founding documents. of the 56 that signed the declaration, over 25 were seminary graduates. It is simply not true to say that they weren’t Christian.   

  • Rwlawoffice

     Very successful practicing lawyer for over 20 years.

  • Crosis101

    they aren’t a church, they are a cult as defined by the US Gov’t

  • KublaConn

    All of the “real” religions (your standard list) are just cults that have endured through time.

  • Nope

    Poor Jindal?!? He is the idiot who pushed this through (though it didnt take much pushing).

    Jindal is terrible. If he gets nominated for VP, we may as well give Obama the election now (though we in louisiana would welcome a respite from his governorship).

  • I don’t think they were trying to say Pagans were the same as Scientologists and Mormons, just that they scare the hard core christians. 

  • Rwlawoffice

     You are engaging in the historical error of modernizing the actions of an historical figure.  Using modern thoughts to interpret what they said and did.  There is absolutely no indication that Jefferson was an atheist. Jefferson’s hostility was to organized religion, not Christianity or the teachings of Christ. In fact he supported missionaries to teach the Gospels of Christ, including what has been referred to as the Jefferson bible. This was a shorthand version of the gospels specifically designed to teach the gospels of Christ to the Indians. That is the title of the book itself.

    To say that the founding fathers built this country on anti Christian ideas is the flat wrong. you need to read the transcripts of the constitutional convention for the speeches they gave. For example, Benjamin Franklin called for a break of three days for the purpose of pray and imploring God to help them in their meetings.  “I therefore beg leave to move that
    henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on
    our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to
    business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate
    in that service.” Franklin

    John Adams stated: “[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish
    the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of
    a free constitution is pure virtue.” Letter to Zabidal Adams 1776

    Benjamin Rush: “We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only
    means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that
    is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by
    the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that
    equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal
    virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.” Rush essays 1806

  • Rwlawoffice

     Isn’t that convenient that you select who you view as the least Christian of the founding fathers to focus on and call the remaining over 200 simply hangers on.  Not only is that incorrect historically, it is disingenuous.

    And despite your notion that the founding documents are anti Christian, that is simply not correct, nor do the actions of our early government show that to be the case. 

  • That’s not entirely true.  There is evidence that I can reduce stress, and that that might be good for me. So while it is a stretch to say I can be stress free, there’s at least some evidence to start experimenting and see what I can come up with.  

    Slightly different than “don’t worry about it, your invisible sky friend will help you”.  That being said… not really interested in studying Buddhism enough to know if it makes sense to me. 

  • While the idea of the Church of Satan making a high school in Louisiana with funding made possible by the self-serving conservative Christian state representatives is giggle inducing, and throwing in every OTHER religious group that the CC folks would be horrified in finding on that list as well just makes one warm and fuzzy all over, I personally endorse the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to found an Academy… simply because we can be sure that it will teach a scientifically based education, critical thinking skills and reasoning. The others…? Not so sure. And do we want, as atheists, to be perceived to endorse “ANY religion but Christianity”, instead of “no religion”…?

  • The problem is more people than religion.  People love the idea that they don’t have to think for themselves, they just have to listen to one man, or one group of men, and they’ll tell them what’s right and what’s wrong.  Religion does some really good things, and some really bad things, depending on who is currently in charge… But most importantly, religion teaches people to not think for themselves enough to tell the difference.

  • Rwlawoffice

     Funny how you forgot the rest of the article that you are quoting from where is says that Jefferson funded and their work and supported it.

    Before you blindly accept the secular historians view that Barton is wrong, why don’t you read the actual historical documents that he uses to support his views?  I am basing my thoughts not on what he says, but upon my review of the source documents.

  • Isilzha

     As always, lying for jebus is A-OK!

  • FSM

    Pastafarian School!!!!!

  • I ay we go with the norse reliion, at least they can enjoy aryan supermen swinging around.

  • MW

    Well said! : )

  • MW

    Nope. Falcon is correct. Buddhism is not a religion – it is non-theistic, therefore merely a life philosophy, not a religion.

  • amansker

    Atheism was ruled as a religion by the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals  (2005) making all atheist organizations eligible for funding.

  • Isilzha

    I really don’t care what the actual religious beliefs of the founding fathers actually were.  It doesn’t really matter.  It’s our world now and we’ve changed many things about for the better since they were alive. 

    (Dude, they didn’t have computers, cars, or space travel either…get the frak OVER yourself)

  • Isilzha

    Well, if Washington was secretive about his religious beliefs I really wish more xians today would follow the example of this founding father!

  • Zenthran

    To the original poster, that behavior would be no better than what you are railing against. Just as the foolish ones who would turn their noses up at the wisdom or peace of another religous fellow, you would antogonize and and hope to wound. Hatred only begets hatred.

  • Lee Spruell (Shreveport)

    It just proves out stupid the people are in Baton Rouge who make our laws —

  • Don John

    Note the quotation marks, meaning it’s a quote and not an argument.

  •  “They still believe nonsense with absolutely no evidence” I’ll take the definition of religion for $500 Alex?

  • She doesn’t know jack about the facts about the Founding Fathers. I bet she believes that Washington was a devout Christian, but he was not. Same goes for Franklin, Madison, Jefferson, Adams and many others. They were many deists and atheists, and some Christians but they would not recognize what Christianity today is. They’d probably be appalled.

  •  But that would mean that most every self proclaimed Christian would belong in that school. BTW, for me, most Christians are Paulians. They do not follow Jesus’ teachings but give lots of lip service. They do follow Paul’s writings as if they were Jesus’ words and teachings though. Thus Paulians.

    The Anti-Christ has come and gone, and he is in the bible with more books by him included and overshadows Jesus like an eclipse.

  • tijeffe

    For many years I have envisioned a high school football game between  Pope Pius XII H.S.  and  Prince of Darkness H.S.  in North Jersey.  Once little Bobby Jindal turned into a real american christian bigot after being born again, it seems he’s done his east Indian heritage proud.  All this sycophant/hypocrite has left to do is to join the Klan.  The old south is on the rise.

  • rth

    I’m pretty sure the U.S. Gov’t doesn’t define “cults.”

  • Okok

    Open a school of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and teach children how to respect the holy noodle and to have faith in him.

  • tijeffe

    so it goes on…..morons electing morons….ad infinitum.

  • 20smoke

    How about the Rastas, I’m betting they would like some state funding!

  • This isn’t ‘funding’ it’s a voucher program.  And I’m not sure what an atheist school would look like.  A private secular school is already eligible.  Maybe you mean an anti-theist school where they spend time studying why religions are wrong?  I wouldn’t mind ALL kids getting a good course in comparative religion, and maybe one ON the Bible, but I don’t really see the point in making it an entire school focus.

  • Huh?

  • Just one? hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahah(gasp)hahahahahahah

  • how can a school promote terrorism again?

    what, you mean by saying they should hate certain people?

    and that’s different from a catholic church hating and discriminating against gays (or muslims).. how?

    last i checked, bias crimes against people in america have killed far more than terrorism.

  • Jason The Pendleton Rat

    That is absolutely true. They don’t know it, but they practice Paulianity. 

  • TiltedHorizon

    “Before you blindly accept the secular historian(s) view that Barton is wrong”

    By “secular historian view” you mean the “majority”,I’m sure you know what word means, adherents like you use it all the time to evidence the mind share Christianity owns. Funny how a “majority” only matters when used in terms of religion.

    As for the “rest of the article”, which one are you talking about, I used three unrelated sources to limit likelihood of potential bias. While you used only one: David Barton.

  • Reality

     So … in her defense, you are trying to state that all Muslim schools teach terrorism.

    Try to make that sort of a generalization with any other community/religion and see the kind of negative response you get.

    Unfortunately, you are Hodges or seem to be just as stupid as Hodges!

  • Jsm2530

    It is not unconstitutional for tax money to go to religious schools. It is unconstitutional if that money is divvied up in a discriminatory way. The government can neutrally support all religions but not favor one or more to the exclusion of others.

  • Drew247

    “Freedom of religion” means “ALL RELIGIONS,” Ya dumb bitch.

  • VT_Citizen

     Yes nicely put.  Blessed be.

  • Jay

    That’s the kind of stupid you can’t even fix with duct tape. This idiot should resign ASAP, she’s an epic FAIL.

  • They do in that cults don’t get tax exempt status.  Except that Scientology does get tax exempt status like any other church.

  • Ramon

     As an atheist Buddhist, let me say you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.  Buddhism is not a religion, it’s a philosophy; it requires no belief in anything without evidence, no gods, no magic.

    Not all Buddhist’s are atheists, some do believe in gods because it’s part of their culture, but those beliefs don’t come from Buddhism, they are cultural artifacts of India.

  • Carol

    Wait a minute.  Most Christian faith based religions don’t have Shiera law; which condemns every other religion on earth and calls for jihad (death) to infidels; or genital mutilations, etc.  If we weren’t such a freaking melting pot we wouldn’t have most of these problems.  I don’t oppose legal immigration because usually those who go through the proper channels really want to assimilate into our values and embrace our cultural blend of lifestyles.  When they come in illegally they’ve already given our values and rules the middle finger.  They have no reason to invest in our futures.

    Back to religious schools; maybe like everything else the government SHOULD  just stay out of it.  Quit using our hard earned money to help solve problems that should be determined by local communities and states.  Take a look at Denmark and how well that has worked out for them by allowing in radical religious groups.  We shouldn’t have to necessarily give up on our foundational religions just because they exist.  It is not our responsibility to accommodate their way of life.  They can stay in their country and practice what works for them there.

  • It’s obvious that on the day of the vote Ms Hodges didn’t have access to the family brain cell. Apparantly her uncle was out collecting road-kill and they didn’t want him to end up under a tractor.

  • oyvey

     Be careful what you wish for.  We had Janet Napolitano, and she was wonderful as governor, and then when she got called up we were left with Jan Brewer.

  • Nodaktrav

    Please don’t allow her to represent all Christians. Don’t let yourself stereotype the way she has. Every religion is comprised of individuals with the potential to misrepresent the faith. Don’t hate. 

  • William Caulfield

     Not completely true.  American Buddhism has attempted to remove the religious portions, but that just waters it all down into a soppy bunch of quotes.

    I can assure you that when I offer incense and bow to Avalokiteshvara, I am feeling quite religious  🙂

  • Fifth Dentist

     Or better yet, the Blue Balls.

  • Isilzha

    Just because YOU think it’s the greatest place in the world to live doesn’t actually make it the best country in the world.  I think we have an atrocious justice system in the US.  We also have plenty of people in this “great” country who actually support prison rape as part of the prisoner’s punishment.  Are there worse systems, of course, but it’s very sad to compare ours to places like North Korea and Iran.

  • some_noise

    Speaking of education, pretty sure Rep. Hodges meant to say she wanted to “ensure” not “insure” money didn’t go to “radical” muslim schools…unless she is looking to buy a policy regarding the situation (but I’m pretty sure that is not what she meant).

  • Isilzha

     No one can watch all the TV programs that have ever been produced.  I don’t even know which TV show you’re talking about (yes, I could google, but why waste my time).

  • Isilzha


  • Fifth Dentist

     No wiccan or pagan has rung my doorbell early on a Saturday morning. If they want to worship trees or rocks or Hendrix’s Electric Ladyland album, and they leave me the hell alone while they’re doing it, more power to them.

  • Isilzha

    Well, in the US we’ve given much of the power and our freedoms over to corporations.  Many property owners can’t cut down trees on their property without getting the permission of the Home Owner’s Association first.  Some people have had their homes stolen from them by HOAs for very petty offenses (usually just not kowtowing enough to the people in power).

  • It’s unconstitutional”.

    Really?  No it’s not.  Perhaps the writer would care to take a gander at the Constitution and maybe read a couple paragraphs.  


  • 212

    SO much hate

  • Pittsnoggld

    What’s so crazy about balance and harmony??? If any religion was close to having it right, I would say it’s them.

  • Isilzha

    wait…so which is the TRUE ™ Buddhism???  For many people, though, it IS a religion.  Still, I think things would greatly improve in the world if we could wave a magic wand and make all the xians into buddhists. 

  • Speachless

    church schools are considered “private” schools.  not public.  the only schools that should get funding are PUBLIC schools – and they’re SORELY underfunded as it is!.

    further, I agree church … NO FUNDING – separation of CHURCH AND STATE !!

     … that, as part of what ever church runs them, in some form or another, there’s too much chance they’d direct the funds to the church (tithing is down, so I hear)… the lines would blur rapidly.

  • Isilzha

    Don’t the Mormons also believe that after they die the men get to be ruler gods of their own planet or something?  Didn’t seem that far off from Scientology to me.

  • Geaux Tigers!

    this program looks like it’s going to be great for education in Louisiana, private schools here offer really quality college preparation. nobody is going to send their kids to a muslim school anyway,  I don’t know of a single one. At least any significant one. This author appears to have an Anti-Christian bias. Haters gonna hate, people from all kind of means are very excited about this program in Louisiana. Way to go Bobby Jindal!

  • Isilzha

     And some of them actually think that they can wave their hands around, chant some words and that really has an effect on the world.  Believing in magic is absurd.

  • Geaux Tigers!

    “Now, one of the state legislators, Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson), just made a shocking discovery, though: Christianity isn’t the only religion!”
    like that line, this dude is a chotch with that facetious bit of douchebaggery

  • Isilzha

     Oh, it certainly does matter what you believe.  Except for the really large, usually public gatherings, each group develops their own dogmas, rules, beliefs that the group must follow.  To not believe in some things means getting booted from the group. 

    A long time ago I tried out the Pagan thing and I eventually realized it really wasn’t that much different underneath the surface than the churches I attended as a child.  So, Pagans don’t get any special exemption just because they’re not as bad (in some ways) as other religions.

  • Geaux Tigers!

    yea ur an ignorant ass bigot

  • Isilzha

     Yep, everyone else is deluded and in desperate need of their brand of education to get straightened out!

  • Geaux Tigers!

    yea the author is probably less educated than the woman he’s making fun of it, at least in respect to legislation and american government

  • SpinozaDiego

    “Cosmic Jewish Zombie”

    Quest for new band name complete.

  • Isilzha

    Also, you can build confidence.

    I learned that from Kung Fu Panda: Legends of the Masters!

  • Simple Observation

    “… what most conservative Christians only say to themselves in private”  You reveal yourself to be just as closed minded as the woman you are bashing.

  • Ink-Slingin-Fool

    and deserves to be burned at the stake……

  • Brian Scott

    I agree with everything you said here, and I’m also named Brian Scott.  Are you actually me posting in some sort of haze?  Are we both Tyler Durden?

  • cybik

    FINALLY we can teach Pastafarianism using state funds.

  • BIGOT-BIGOT-BIGOT-BIGOT!! You are head in the sand IGNORANT. The Crusades are documented genocide in the name of Christianity. Entire tribes, i.e., small nations  have been exterminated over land in the name of religion. That religion was Christianity. I’m not saying it’s ok for Islam, but don’t be so arrogant as to think you are any different than they are. You guys have just been better armed throughout history. 

  • Guest

    I’m not athiest, but right now I want to apply to open a school for the Flying Spaghetti Monster and get it funded.

  • Don’t justify this crap! Why should any of my tax money go to a private school of any kind! Taxes are public money for public interests. EFFING PERIOD.

  • I hope everyone who agrees with this woman reads the following article, particularly # 4. 


    It basically says that our Founding Fathers had respect for the Muslim faith and that Muslims were the first to recognize the independence of the United States. It turns out the Founding Fathers were MUCH MORE tolerant of Muslims than we are. 

  • Roxy

     The Fallen Angels!

  • Jsm2530

    It’s not a matter of justifying or not. I am not even making an argument. I am stating a fact. If you are offended by what is and is not constitutional, you are always free to drum up enough political support and amend the Constitution.

  • Instigator

    Snake handlers rejoice….dollar bills y’all! Thanks Bobby J!

  • I posted my favorite Hyperbole and a Half before I saw this. Well played Martin. Well played.

  • Oh, don’t think, don’t even let your mind wander… it’s too little to be out by itself

  • Rwlawoffice

     I am sure that you would agree that majority view by itself does not make it right.  Since you did not cite your articles, I cannot refer to the ones you specifically relied upon, however, your comment is contained in several articles. If they did not also include the fact that Jefferson funded the society and supported their mission , then I would say they are incomplete at best.

    My information does not come from David Barton, but from the actual documents themselves. In fact, this particular information comes from the Monticello organization where they quote Jefferson’s response to the request for assistance.  it is here:

  • Jackie Pekar

    Love it! I agree! Hahaha…

  • ……

    K.K.K. High School

  • Kriswager

     Are you seriously trying to base your arguments on the pseudo-historian Barton?

  • tam frager

    I want a Jedi school. 

  • I cannot believe that a politician could possibly survive such blatant racism, in a modern, secular country. In the UK she could possibly be imprisoned under our anti-discrimination laws. She would never hold public office again, that’s for sure

  • Cathen

    As a Wiccan, I’m not sure Wicca or Paganism has a place in your shock squadron. They aren’t supposed to be in any way reactionary or anti-Christianity, simply alternative (and you can argue that a lot of their core beliefs even predate Christianity). Satanism is clearly reactionary to be against Christianity (I mean, they stole “Satan” from them intentionally), so that would be a great idea in this case, that would be hilarious. I also think Scientology would be a hilarious “shock squadron” move, but currently Scientology is losing religious status in individual states, and as (I believe) it is a dangerous cult that hurts people, it would be better to continue pressing for the disregard and dissolution of Scientology, rather than try and use it as a political tool. That’s one double-edged sword that I’m confident would come back at us.

  • Takaihentai

    They should open a school for the actual religion of file sharing that could be fun !!!!

  • I understand what you’re trying to say, but you’re not understanding what the suggestion is. The suggestion isn’t to take religions that see themselves in opposition to Christianity. The point is to take religions that Christians see as in opposition to Christianity. Now, as somebody who isn’t terribly opposed to paganism or wiccan in the same way that I am against Christianity (although…I’m sorry to have to say that I still oppose paganism and wiccan like all the rest), I do have to point out that a lot of Christians see you (as a wiccan) as the devil incarnate. It doesn’t matter how you feel about it, it’s how they see you and your religion. I’m almost positive that this state representative sees you and your religion in just that way. So as for my suggestion on how to shock her and her like-minded Christian friends, I don’t see how I should change those suggested religions in any way.

    I’m sorry to include you in such mixed company, but it isn’t about your feelings. It’s about severely disrupting the ideas of others. That may sound cold but, hey, I don’t believe in any of it anyway. You know that going into the bargain when you’re going to read my point of view, so at least I’m being completely honest about it.

  • BTW, I’d just like to add: wow! I had no idea that my suggestion/comment would spark so many replies and likes. Thank everyone.

  • TiltedHorizon

    This is one of the sites I used. Now please cite where your claim, “Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society” is listed. I did not include Jefferson’s $50 donation (approx 500 when adjusted for inflation) because “Funding” does not equate with “Founding” which is your claim. The only claim of “founding” comes from David Barton which means you took this ‘fact’ at his word. What new line in the sand will you draw now?

  • Ms. Hodge is definitely a representative of the dumbest of the dumb. She is also an uneducated bigot,who has absolutely no knowledge of the US Constitution nor of the religious background of the framers of the Declaration of Independence or Constitution. Further, the USA was not founded as, and never was to be, a christian nation. It was to be a nation that accepted all religions and creeds. Inclusive, not exclusive, as Ms. Hodge and her little band of bigoted followers would have.
    This is why I left Louisiana, and the south in general, after spending 15 years of my working life in that state, governed by an idiot. By the way, does not Ms. Hodge realize that  Gov. Jindel does not meet her vision of a “WASP”?
    She is one of the reasons why I have no respect for evangelical christianity. She is definitely a disgrace to the state of Louisiana.

  • Anon51

    About as absurd as believing in prayer.

  • Speterson

     Please cite the court ruling you are referring to. It is not all that simple. Government can provide funding for religiously owned institutions, but not for the purpose of promoting, preaching, etc. religion. Catholic Social Services, for example, must follow federal hiring guidelines and CAN NOT promote their religion while delivering services supported by federal funding.

  • Just finished reading Jon Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven” which illuminates how Mormon fundamentalists murdered people in the past, because “God gave them revelations.”  That’s as nutty as it gets.  

  • Actually, the church of Satan is pretty secretive. They, generally, do not even admit that they are Satanist. Very few are out of the closet if you will. But yes, these funds would be available to them as well. Freedom of worship/fairy tale and so on.

  • Isn’t Scientology merely a tax shelter for wealthy celebs? (Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Beck, etc.)  

  • ProphetLSD

    let’s not forget the Discordians, the Pastafarians, the Jedi, and the Sith!

  • Single

    Originality. Nice.
    link to evidence

  • Sheldon316

    Jedi Academy. Bazinga.

  • What “Christian principles” do you see in our founding documents?

  • Ist

    Thank you, Justin!

  • Rwlawoffice

     Sorry I did not see where you cited your source in this latest post. But I am happy to see that you acknowledge but intentionally left out the portion of your source that showed that Jefferson funded and supported the Virgina Bible Society. The article  also says that the 13 members you identified were the initial managers of that organization, not the founders. So we have a situation where we know that Jefferson supported the mission and funded it but was not an initial manager.  If you want to say that this means he didn’t help found it that is your right. 

  • Beck is a Mormon.

  • Rwlawoffice

     Asked you first.  You made the statement that the anti christian ideals in the founding documents. What are they?

  • Gi

    There are more good muslims then there are terriorists and radical muslim schools. Public Education in La. has been failing for decades. Vouchers to help a child out of a failing school has to be an alternative. Our children are our future. We have to help them get a great education. Now that may not be at a private school either, but we have to try different options and see what works.  Our public school system is BROKEN and must be FIXED!!!

  • Katherine Hermann

    There are two sects of Buddhism: Theravada and Mahayana. Though neither is the “true” Buddhism, Theravada is closest to the early Buddhism developed by Siddhartha. Mahayana tends to view Buddha as an earthly manifestion of an “omnipresent being.” They are very hesitant to say “god,” but of the two, it is the one most steeped in a deity.

    So, in some ways, ALL of you are correct: there exist some religious aspects, but they are not necessarily practiced by all Buddhists.

    (…end of teaching lesson.)

  • Guest

    ahahahahahahaha awesome

  • As I explained in a reply to somebody else: It doesn’t matter how you see Pagans and Wiccans, or how Pagans and Wiccans see themselves. What matters, in my suggestion, is how a lot of Christians see them. And the way that they are seen by those Christians are as the devil incarnate.

    Pagans and Wiccans may disagree that they are, but that is actually how they are seen by Bible thumping Christians.

    That’s all that counts in this instance.

  • Jsm2530

    G.I. Bill funds are federal funding that support education; military members may use that money to attend Islamic or Catholic universities, and those universities may preach and promote their religion while educating the student despite the funding being federal.

    As I said, the government may spend money which goes to religious organizations; it may not discriminate who gets the money. See e.g., Larson v. Valente (1982).

    This is not controversial as a matter of law. It is well-established.

  • Rob

    The Flying Spaghetti Monster School of Flying.  Using public funds.  Good idea.

  • Tortmccarter

    Go, Alot’s!

  • I think this is a positive story. It teaches people the value of Church/State separation. THIS is why the Government has to stay out of religion and Vice Versa.

    And now it is explained in a way that even a Conservative Christian could understand

  • blah blah blah… calling people out on bigotry isn’t bigotry

  • Yea, that’s about par for your average conservative christian politician. Heck, thats true of ALL politicians!

  • Don’t criticize the people pointing out what is wrong with your religion.
    Run front and center and become the voice and face of Christianity.

    Or do what I did and leave and let other people waste their time defending their beliefs

  • And you have an Anti-Constitution bias.  

  • 91superstar


  • guest

    Mormons are Christian…just saying.  http://mormon.org/jesus-christ/

  • Fundies don’t consider them Christians. Doesn’t matter what Morons..oops! Mormons think in this particular case. Just sayin’.

  • Kevin Schmidt

    Oh boy! I can’t wait to go to Louisiana and start my Pastafarian School for believers in the invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster!

    Beware nonbelievers of his noodley appendages!


  • TiltedHorizon

    The “This” in my reply was a reference to the site you provided. Speaking of “intentionally”, you keep avoiding my direct question. Please cite where your claim, “Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society” is listed.

  • Kevin Schmidt

    You must not be a very good attorney to continue dwelling on strawman red herrings.

    Regardless of the religions of our founding fathers, the Constitution is secular, and there is a First Amendment constitutional seperation between church and state.

    Deal with it.

  • John Reinert Nash


  • Brian Scott

    I don’t think I’m you. o.O

  • DTitchner

    Come on now Haley, give credit where credit is due.

  • Kevin Schmidt

    Does anyone know if Jefferson’s black slave mistress and the children he had with her were Christians?

  • Jews and Christians rutinely mutilate the genitals of their children legally by the means of circuncision. So your savage primitive acts are OK but not those of foreigners.,. is that what your are saying ? 
    Oh and christianity would certainly have laws as  gruesome as sharia law if civilization and secularism had not stopped their insanity a long time ago. After all both worship the same thug in the sky. 

  • Kevin Schmidt

     More off topic nonsense.

    The US is a sectarian country, even if our founding fathers were devout Christians or pot smoking, sex slave owning, Indian killing, colony exploiting wealthy white men, which they were.

  • TiltedHorizon

     Despite his claim to the contrary,  his avoidance in answering my question on Jefferson’s “founding” seems to indicate he has no evidence outside of Barton to support it. Instead he has decided to dodge the issue entirely by refocusing on donations as if funding means founding.

  • Brian Shearer

    This is an awesome article and truly shows the ignorance and bigotry of the conservative right.  Supposedly our forefathers came here to escape religious persecution, and yet, we see it in our society every day.  Hmmmmmmm…..

  • Kevin Schmidt

     Where does “it” say the word “Christian”? I can only find where it says “religion”.

  • Cerebral

     Nah, he probably went to Wake Forest. Go Demon Deacs!

  • TiltedHorizon

    “Asked you first.”

    This translates to “I don’t know.”

  • Brian Scott

    That seems incongruous with what I’m aware of to be an enduring pattern in neopaganism. :: shrug ::

  • Shearer Brian

    Amen!  I would suggest Jindal to end his political career now, but then he wouldn’t help out the liberals if he stayed quiet.  So I say, let him speak and dig his own grave.

  • curtst

    See Article 11:  “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”

  • Danny Milosavljevic

    I agree. It’s good to clearly describe the world as it is, reusing existing words with their original definition insofar possible.

  • Spherical Basterd

    Step right up folks and view, straight from the bayou, a true representitive of the Louisiana education system.

  • Isilzha

    Well, it’s definitely not an endearing pattern!  I wish I could remember what the ridiculous fight was about on that pagan listserv that finally made me realize they sounded just like the people in the churches I attended as a kid.  I think it was over some trivial piece of ritual and there were 2 factions insisting that it HAD to be done their way or it wasn’t right.  Both sides were appealing to their favorite traditions and authorities to prove their point.  After a couple of weeks reading such messages I realized I’d heard it all before; the only thing that had really changed was the language.  There’s not no “right” way to do a ritual, pagan or xian, since it’s all pointlessly ineffective anyway.

  • Spherical Basterd

    May I ask you a question Carol?

    Does your Christian religion espouse the idea that non-believers will burn in Hell?

    If so, what right have you to speak about how wrong and violent others are, especially Muslims, when your religion condemns others to an eternal torment.

    Methinks you should rethink your thinks!

  • Papilly Iscarovich

    “but it isn’t about your feelings. It’s about severely disrupting the ideas of others.”
    I don’t want to sound hypocritical but that’s a pretty destructive idea. I was a born a raised Catholic till I realized how stupid some of the beliefs were and how ridiculous the whole hierarchy is, but I feel like attacking other peoples ideals just for the sake of attacking them makes you just as bad as the Christians that attack Muslims, Buddhists , or Mormons. If they want to live in their little fairytale why not let them. Now admittedly much of that bias should be removed from politics, no doubt. Still, you are happiest being atheist and you are allowed to do so. So why not let them live in their little worlds?

  • Michael Scott Franklin


  • MR

    How about the Screamin’ Demons

  • What a stupid… STUPID woman.

    First off the founding fathers WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!!!!!  They HATED CHRISTIANS!!!   They referred to the Bible as a “dung pile.”  

    Read some of the letters from the founding fathers.  THE FOUNDING FATHERS  WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!!!!


  • Rwlawoffice

     My claim came from the Monticello.org that he funded and supported it.  I interpret that as helping found it, regardless of if he was an initial manager. The point is he clearly would not have done that in the event he hated the Bible as has been implied.

  • Rwlawoffice

     Just trying to not allow an attempt at shifting the burden of proof.

  • Rwlawoffice

     Just responding to the historical distortions regarding the faith of our founding fathers.  Never did get into a discussion of the separation of church and state. As a lawyer I understand the arguments I get into and the ones I haven’t.

  • Rwlawoffice

     You do know this was retracted by the author of the article when the dna tests proved that he could not be the father.

  • Spherical Basterd

    But Peter you and your crew bring us so much insane hilarity. And yes, much of what religion of any type says and does does disgust us.

    Now do your Voodoo Zombie Jesus dance to amuse us further or go back to the childrens table and cross your fingers and hope that Jesus picks you to win the lottery this weekend.

  • lalstl

    I wholly agree with Summer below. I have been hoping that a Wiccan or Satanist student or teacher group insists on praying at lunch in a school, just to point out the utter tyranny of the majority and pound some sense into folks. But this Louisiana legislator may have just done it on her own; hope that goes viral bigtime 🙂

  • Austen

    Did you know Jedi is an official world religion since it had enough followers?

    Yes that’s right, Lousiana School Of The Force. You can officially do that and the government will have to give you state funds with your school under Jedi. LOL

  • T Anderson

    You know, every one seems to be forgetting tat this nation was founded on a few key principals, one of which was religious freedom… not freedom to be a narrow minded christian sub-sect, or just part of the all powerful and dogmatic catholic church, but the freedom to practice what ever your faith truly is 

    So if ur, pagan “christian” ( which by the way blankets several faiths) catholic, Buddhist , satanist, scientologist, or aethiest, you have the constitutional right to practice that religion free from oppression and ridicule…..

    So all of you talking about faiths that aren’t yours saying thy are wrong need to just stuff it

     thank you that is this middle aged while voting males opinion

  • TiltedHorizon

    As you kept doing with the funding vs founding debate? 🙂

  • Danny Milosavljevic

    That stretch is the main objection by laymen to buddhism I heard, though. The (speculative) argument is: if there were no stress at all left, you’d lose drive and would not want to do anything anymore.

    That this is not so can be seen on the many buddhists that did just that, but who’s to say it will be the same for you – or that they aren’t lying?

    Here one needs a leap of faith which is what I and people around me usually call “religiosity”. This also where the priests can build their “empires” by adding requirements – and sometimes did, depending on the region.

    As for not being interested, that’s fine. It’s just like for hospitals, best to stay away from them when you are fine…

  • Sensible

    I think we can all agree Satan High’s mascot should be the Republicans.

  • TiltedHorizon

    Lets not mix words, you stated that he “founded” it. And since every point you parroted has been sourced to David Barton, it can then be assumed he is your only source.

    “The point is he clearly would not have done that in the event he hated the Bible as has been implied”

    Not implied by me anywhere. Since we are dealing with historical facts, there are no facts showing anything other than a one time donation to the Virginia Bible Society so it seems his “support” had a shelf life. Your arguments, made to others here, indicates his actions identify him as Christian. That is just wishful projecting on your part, as someone who donates time and money to charity, as a Foster Parent, I am “Christian” on paper, you simple have to ignore my writings.

  • Baton Rouge Pastafarian High School 🙂

  • Danny Milosavljevic

    Interestingly, wikipedia says there’s no accepted scientific definition of “religion” in the first place. Since this law here doesn’t define it, we can just declare anything we want as religion and get funding. Have to start my siestas-every-day religious school 🙂

  • Fallen Angel

    Been spending time on Urban Dictionary, Haley? Hi-five!!!

  • Be as touchy-feely as you want with your feelings, but please don’t misinterpret what I wrote. I didn’t suggest the idea to become friends with these fundamentalist idiots, but to antagonize them further. Now, I realize that you may think that this isn’t the best way to make friends, and I would agree. My point, however, is that I’m not suggesting it to make friends; I’m suggesting it to piss them off.

    If I had wanted to suggest making friends with them, I wouldn’t have suggest it in this particular way.

    As to the second part of your question: you must have missed reading the entire original story. I didn’t suggest this because they were content to live in their little world without bothering anyone else. I suggested this course of action because they weren’t content to stay in their little world and started seriously infringing upon the rest of the world around them. The reason a lot of us atheists are fighting back is because the level of infringement from religious people in the last few decades has risen sharply and, quite frankly, we’re sick of it. We’re not out to make friends with our reaction. We’re mostly out to tell them that enough is enough, and to either go back to their little worlds or to leave them altogether and join the real one.

  • Rwlawoffice

     This is in response to your last post, not this one. Too narrow below.  If you want to talk about ignoring writings, I see that you have ignored Jefferson saying he was a Christian in multiple writings (including those that he signed “in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ””. His other actions to support this claim include his helping found he Virgina Bible Society, (even if that help came in the form of money and support as he wrote in his letter).  I also notice that you have not answered the other claims of his support for and claim of Christianity.


  • bee

    This is what I learn for US Citizenship test:

    What is freedom of religion?
    You can practice any religion, or not practice a religion.

    I show by that and I intend to stand by it.
    The First amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion


    US US Citizenship Tests

  • Law Grad

    In reference to your claim of unconstitutionality of a voucher program whereby vouchers can be used to cover tuition for students attending religious based schools; I am afraid that the Supreme Court disagrees with you.  In Zelman v. Simmons-Harris, 536 U.S. 639 (2002), the court stated, unequivocally, that such voucher programs do not violate the Establishment Clause so long the vouchers may also be used for non-religious schools.

  • I beg to differ when you say that Christians only want religius freedom for Christianity. If she opposed Hinduism or Buddhism etc. I would see the point but to oppose Islam is something that anyone concerned with freedom might want to do. Sharia will do away with any other religious freedom more completely than Christianity will. SO the best thing we can do is KEEP THINGS SECULAR! No religion shall taint our public education, laws etc. Worship what you want, just don’t get it all over anyone else.

  • It does not matter what our forefathers personally believed. Jefferson would let us all know that it is none of our business (wish politicians today had that attitude) what matters is that they knew our laws needed to be secular and our Constitution Godless. This is how the country was designed and if they were all Satanists it would not matter. They knew how to separate things. It’s a shame politicians have only regressed.

  • Jesse Wahl

    stooopid hooker

  • Absolutely disgusting.

  • Speterson

     Being a Christian in those days was very different than today. There are many other documents indicating Jefferson was a deist and not a theist. Just for kicks, search for “Jeffersonian Bible” and you will begin to understand how he felt about the Christian myth.

  • I hoped I had found another great site but it appears you are just as biased as this woman. SO the threat to secularism is only valid if it’s coming from Christianity? Why not try educating yourselves just a bit. I will fight just as hard to keep prayer out of schools. But it doesn’t seem like this web site has a problem with a religion that demands prayer five times a day and has no separation of the  state. Why would this be so?

  • Skotosynthesis

     That would be a brilliant irony.  Only problem is that the Church of Satan makes it a point to avoid this very hypocrisy.  They are entirely self-funded, and every year since they were founded they have declined tax-exempt status (for which they are very much eligible,) just to make this very statement.

  • MissGnomers

    It’s the British government that doesn’t recognize them as a church.

  • Skotosynthesis

     …oh, almost forgot: they are also strictly against indoctrinating children, as a matter of principle.

  • NickDB

     I think we’re all avoiding the real question here, if they were Christians, were they True Christians?

  • TiltedHorizon

    I hate the narrowing, thank you for continuing this elsewhere.

    FYI: The “in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ” argument is yet another David Barton assertion. You really do need another source.

    Terms like “In the year of the Lord”, “in the year of our Lord”, and “In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ” are all variants of the Latin “Anno Domini” as in “1819 A.D.” were part of the common language and were not assertions of faith.

    So no, he did not “sign in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ”, he signed the date and signed his name, the “in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ” was PREprinted as part of the date format, not signed, as can be seen here:


    As for Jefferson’s “support for and claim of Christianity” I have posted other replies to you with his own words on the subject. To those I’ll add this one:

    In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, 25 June 1819 in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ(I guess I’m Christian now), he wrote…

    “You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”

    A sect by myself; what an odd christian thing to say.

  • snessnyc

    They were seminarians because seminaries were the higher education of the day. That does NOT (Emphatically, does NOT) mean that they were Christian. Will you now tell me that  they were Jewish because they all knew Hebrew (they mostly did) or that they were Catholic because they knew Latin (they mostly did that, too).

    Why are so many Christian Fundamentalists so aggressively ignorant?

  • Why would this be so?

    Because it’s not so.  You’ve just completely mis-read it.  

  • Earl G.

    So why did Hodges suddenly change her mind, then?

  • Oh that’s worth a shiny new internet for sure!

    only slightly related, over on WND one person was trumpeting that 78% of Americans are Christian.  While someone else was claiming that a True Christian would never have an abortion.  Which left me with the napkin calculation that the country is actually at most 57% True Christian.

  • BentleyOwen

    “A bad idea to begin,” wrote Hemant. And he approvingly quoted a statement saying that says that Muslims should be funding their own schools, and Christians should be funding their own. 

  • Papilly Iscarovich

     I would have to disagree with the level of religious infringement increasing. There is a reason that the Catholic church doesn’t rule the western world like it used to. The fact is that Atheists are winning. Now, that’s because they’re right, but I don’t think attacking those who hold on to a religion is reasonable at all. People with religions ought to be able to speak their minds in politics without being derided by the left and those on the right shouldn’t force their ideals onto atheists and those of other religious persuasions.  The main issue I have is that while the left claims to ultimately  be tolerant of everybody (gays are the best current example of this) they then refuse to allow people whose beliefs are the center of their lives to allow those beliefs to guide them in their political decisions.

    Also, I wasn’t trying to be touchy feely about it. More live and let live.

  • oh goody, does this mean I can start up a private Santeria or Rastafarian school in Louisiana and get tax dollars for it? where do I sign?

  • Mama Moonlight

    Does that come with a free lunch program?:)

  • Wolfstorm


  • Mama Moonlight

    Well written btw. 

    I vote: Cookie Monster School of Cookie.  ‘Me want coooookeeeee!’ will be the motto. 

    Oh and I’m really glad she made it soooo obvious how short sighted and closed minded she is….what was it Ghandi said, something like ‘I like you Christ.  I don’t like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ.’

  • Maybe he’s one of those fox-hole theists we hear so much about…? 😉

  • Nihilist

    so this means i can send my kids to a scientology madrassa, and the state will pay?!?!!?…
    what a maroon…. if the baggers could only read the real writings of the founding fathers, and how they excoriated the xtian superstitions…

  • There is absolutely nothing *Christian* about this twit, or any of the other fundies who refuse to believe Jesus is liberal. (I’m Independent, in case anyone cares)  As a believer, I feel certain that if Jesus were to return today, He’d be in all of the lowliest, most desperately poor places, and would certainly not be at *any* political fundraisers.  He’d be at AIDS hospices, and would not reject any of God’s children because of their “sins” – at least these morons had better hope so, because if He did punish us all for our sins, they’d be the first ones he’d smite.

  • Sithlord78

    Seriously raise your hands, who saw this coming years ago?  I want to give these idiots as much credit, but this is just proof that they really don’t think things through…

  •  Christian biblical law is no less violent or more tolerant than Islam. The bible calls for the stoning of all non-believers for Christ’s sake.

  • Great article!  Thank you.

  • Markbaux

    Honestly, what in God’s name does the religion of the “Founders” have to do with anything? 

  • Bobjones_2007


  • skylights

     FSM FTW

  • sumguy

    It’s not “grajamatata” it’s “grajeeate”. lol

  • Colin

    Hey, where do I find information on setting up a school based on the principles of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his Noodly Appendages? Just as good as her religion.

  • They are using this program to support christian schools in Louisiana that are teaching that the existence of the Loch Ness monster disproves Darwin’s Theory of Evolution

  • Oishee

    The sad thing is, I remember when Hurricane Katrina happened. I was living in Qatar, this small but rich Middle Eastern country, where 90% of people were Muslim. And my school – one of those very Muslim schools Representative Hodges is so against (although not ‘radical’) – held a K-12 contest to see which grade could donate the most blankets, bedding and emergency supplies to Hurricane Katrina victims. So many kids I knew – most of them heirs to a billion-dollar oil company – simply bought new packs of bedding and sent them off. 
    This is what they teach at regular Muslim schools.
    Something that should be taught in Christian schools too, in my opinion.At least in Muslim countries, the government acknowledges that religion affects the government, rather than just claiming a ‘separation of Church and state’Anyway, next time Louisiana declares a state of emergency, they should specify – “Muslims need not help.” Otherwise, Muslims might accidentally help rebuild the very system that discriminates against them. 

  • Jderr18

    Islam is not a religion; it is a Theo political construct. Less than a quarter of the Quarantine and Haddith have anything to do with religion. The rest concerns Shari’a and how to treat the dhimmi; that’s all of us heretics.

  • You had me right until you got to the last line. Privilege is overused, and it is inappropriately used in this case.

  • What a fucktard some people are!

  • Wmuromot

    Ah ha ha ha ha!!!!!

  • independent_ttt

    Con filth morons are disgusting. 

  • Jrluby95

    This is why we have separation of church and state…. Nice job Louisiana! Oops!

  • So yet another whackjob christian religious zealot DOES support freedom of religion only IF it’s the Christian religion! And probably only HER BRAND of Christian!

    Good gods and goddesses –that is funnnnny. Take care and hang in there, everyone.

    Your friend,


    Warren G. Richards
    Mesa AZ

  • Jward012

    Can you give one example of pagans or wiccans trying to “fuck with the freedom of others,” as you so crudely put it?  No?  Then STFU.

  • Tmballgame

    Fuck! She makes me look bad. But that is what America is about. Knowing your mistakes and learning from them. I learn mine quickly (most), hopefully she will to!

  • Jrluby95

    This is why we have separation of church and state…. Nice job Louisiana! Oops!

  • Tom Sisson

    @PatheosAtheist:twitter Can we all just like and share and only add productive comments? The point is what people like #RepValerieHodges mean when they say we are a Christian nation. @hemantmehta:twitter 

  • Tom Sisson

    @PatheosAtheist:twitter Can we all just like and share and only add productive comments? The point is what people like #RepValerieHodges mean when they say we are a Christian nation. @hemantmehta:twitter 

  • Carl Gorney

     And he would be crucified by those who invoke his name on a regular basis…as well as talk radio and Fox “News”, for the obvious reasons.

  • Il_repute

    Ok people, I have read through your comments regarding the Church of Satan and so on and I have come to the epic determination that you….people…. rock.  That was awesome.  I…I feel so at home!  So touched!  I’ve found my people!

  • What is it about the South ???

  • TCC

    The first quote, with more context:

    To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other.

    And the second, with more context:

    I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus [N.B. This work is commonly known as the Jefferson Bible]; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.

    So what you should recognize here is that Jefferson is explicitly distinguishing his beliefs about Jesus from orthodox beliefs. By “his doctrines,” Jefferson is referring to the ethical precepts that Jesus espoused, which he often expressed his fondness for.

    Seriously, stop getting your quote mines from David Barton. You just make yourself look like a fool.

  • TCC

    To be fair, deist isn’t really a fair description of Jefferson’s views. He did believe in an intervening and providential god (which is very much not a characteristic of deism), but he did think that revelation was not a sufficient way to discern the existence of a god. The term “theistic rationalist” has been coined to describe his position, as well as Franklin’s. So yes, I would say that Jefferson was a theist, but he sure as hell wasn’t an orthodox Christian.

  • TCC

    Does the Ninth Commandment mean nothing to you? You’ve been called out on these lies already.

  • CarlosSutter

    We shouldn’t be surprised of her stupidity at that level; she is just a representative of her peers, a good “representation” of those who voted for her.

  • She got hoisted on her own petard.

  • Michael

    I paraphrase Animal House when I say the following: “Lady, bigoted and ignorant are no way to go through life.”

  • Doug504

    And it gets worse.

    The state approved a private Christian school to get more than 350 vouchers and the school has no teachers.  Students watch DVD.

    After that was reported, the state suddenly decided a “second round” of vetting was necessary. 

  • Lsouth

    Is she all types of slow? I mean our “founding father’s religion,” please enlighten me, what radical christian views did Jefferson believe in, again?.

    Also, Islam is a religion. Its an even an Abrahamic faith and has ties to Catholicism, and Lady hate to tell you this, but you voted to fund religious schools. Hence, you fund all religious schools, because we are country that supposedly believes in equality and religious freedom.

    Unless, your version of the constitution is different than mine. Tell me where in constitution that you have been reading, it specifically promotes Christianity. There might be references to God, but sure as heck does not say  a specific religion. You want to know why because our we had this whole freedom of religion going. As in we want to promote individual freedoms and not be a persecuted people. Do yourself a favor and read up on the Constitution, different religions (how similar Abrahamic faiths really are), and look up the word persecution…them get back to us…

  • throw her out of office.  make the door hit her in the ass so hard that it knocks some sense into her.  

  • if she finds this bill shocking she should read the constitution…doesn’t sound like she’d be a fan.

  • PhrenicGermal

    I don’t agree that the anti-christ or any of this stuff is real but I agree about the Paulians.  I remember holding that view when I was still religious.

  • Redrogue60

    I am so happy right now. I love it when these ignorant bigoted bastards get their stupidity exposed.  I guess she forgot that she lives in America where all religion is excepted and protected. I do not support the vouchers but I think its cool that it applies to all religions. I hope some wiccans or neo-pagans start a school and as the guy below me mentioned how about the Church of Satan. Perhaps a few Jewish schools too. What fools

  • MissNormaDesmond

     No, revising history would be making them Christian.  Isn’t bearing false witness supposed to be a bad thing for you guys?  Because you’re telling a flat lie.  http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs

  • MissNormaDesmond

     Is this supposed to be logical?  It’s obviously not true to say that none of them were Christians, but nobody is saying that.  It’s equally false to say they all were.  Some were, some weren’t.  Of the more prominent figures known to most Americans, many if not most were Deists.

  • MissNormaDesmond

    Please, try making sense sometime.  To be a Deist is very obviously not to be an atheist, it’s just not being a Christian.  Man, dogma to the left of me, dogma to the right of me, volleyed and thundered…

  • MissNormaDesmond

     It’s nice that you’d consider him to be that, but it doesn’t make it particularly accurate.  You’re not much more palatable than RW, you’re just a different flavor of the same thing: “What I believe matters more than any mere facts.”

  • MissNormaDesmond

    I have read his writings, and I find your representation of them to be very little less distorted than that of the person you’re arguing with.

  • MissNormaDesmond

     You know, nobody believes you about the attorney thing.  Just FYI.

  • The sad part is that modern day Americans (and unfortunately it happens far too often with those who call themselves Republicans) have forgotten why the United States was founded, and more importantly, upon what beliefs and ideals it was founded. I was relieved to see that the author of this article did enough research to mention the fact the Founding Fathers were (as close as they could be categorized) Deists  — not to mention Freemasons. They rarely spoke of their own private religious beliefs because they didn’t want anyone’s faith to feel excluded. This is taken from a letter G.W. wrote to a Jewish community in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1790:

    “It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.”

    I thought the most significant part was the fact that “the Government of the United States… gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance…” I wish our government officials would understand our government before trying to run it.

  • Malcire

    Buddhism gives beliefs on an after life and spirituality in a semi codified way (not dogmatic though). So it still qualifies as a religion. It is odd in tat it doesn’t have a god or gods, but these are not required for something to be a religion.

  • Ltc805

    they are dangerous cults in russia and germany. 

    may i just say to this bitch that our founders said freedom of religion, not “we are christians?” did she know about a treaty we signed about never becoming a theocracy? 

  • Oylerd1

    They need to do away with the voucher system totally!! It is just another way of segregation!! Bobby Jindall has no idea about education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Ftinder

    What are you talking about. Satan High’s mascot should be the fightin’ William Blakes!

  • Ryoma_meeiz

    Obviously she should go read about how our Founding Fathers pushed for Religious Freedom.  AKA – The ability to worship your faith without persecution.  And the part where it doesn’t ever say just Christianity.

  •  If they can teach their creationism we can teach that the world was licked into being out of a block of ice by the giant cow Audhumbla.

    But Scandinavians are Scandinavians and the Aryans came from northern India.

  • Ana

    Better to just ban religious schools. What right do people have to indoctrinate children with nonsense?

  • JustBtwnMeNYou

    There is no hope for poor Valerie. You can’t fix stupid.

  • artisanr

     Betcha their sports teams play dirty.  😀

  • Apparently, the legislator did not attend an educational facility that was able to instil an understanding of “democracy” and “equality under the law”. I do hope that tax payers dollars were not wasted upon her schooling.

  • se habla espol

    “I have faith that 2+2 is 4”

    I don’t have or need such faith.  I have a little education in math, and a consequent understanding that “2+2 = 4” is a theorem of the ordinary arithmetics, in any radix exceeding 4, that is provable in multiple ways, from multiple axiom bases, using at least one logic.  Its proofs need not be repeated, except to demonstrate that they exist.  Many of the proofs are such that they apply trivially many other theorems of the same form, like 2+3 = 5, 3+9 = 12, etc.  All these theorems are deemed proven without explication, in those proof systems.
    I also understand that ordinary arithmetics are isomorphic (or is it homomorphic? Or something else? I haven’t used that area of math in many years.) to human experience, so that this theorem and the multitude like it are useful.  You may wish to now proclaim this isomorphism to be a matter of faith, rather than pure pragmatism, but that would be silly of you.
     Hemant is the math teacher: ask him for guidance in learning some high-school math, if you’re so uneducated (or Louisiana educated – same thing) as to think arithmetic is a matter of faith.  (The quote-marks are yours, so they might be an indication that you’re just quoting a stock faithist equivocation.  If so, please read ‘you’ as directed to the faithists you’re quoting rather than as a reference to yourself.  –unless you actually are serious about the nonsense in your comment.)
    While composing the above, I realized that faithists in general, and fundies in particular, hate education because education eliminates the perceived need for faith.  The more you understand, the less mysterious is ordinary reality — the one that religions try to hide behind their dogmas and apologetics.  The only mysteries remaining are the ones the sciences haven’t doped out yet, the ones that have no room for gods.

  • Jivemonkey

    an all LGBT high school. Wow, they would die!

  • “I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” 

    WAIT, WHAT????  It baffles me how many of these so called “American” politicians know so little about AMERICAN history and the ACTUAL foundation on which this country was built. They could all use a big old FAT history lesson or two. Our founding fathers came here to avoid religious persecution and built this country on the foundation of RELIGIOUS FREEDOM (for all) not to create a CHRISTIAN based country. As a matter of fact, most weren’t Christians and Jefferson was pretty damn clear about this  just about every time he opened his mouth.”History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.” He also said “I AM FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND AGAINST ALL MANEUVERS TO BRING ABOUT A LEGAL ASCENDANCY OF ONE SECT OVER ANOTHER” – ??!!!!  And it wasn’t just Jefferson – It
    was ALL of our founding fathers. 

    From the mouth of Madison and probably the MOST IMPORTANT WORDS THESE BIGOTS NEED TO HEAR “The civil rights of NONE shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, NOR SHALL ANY NATIONAL RELIGION BE ESTABLISHED, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.” 

    Our “founding fathers’ religion” huh? You just go on and keep making it up as you go along.  Your ignorance is astounding.

  • I think it’s probably more appropriate that you, with your somewhat limited reading comprehension skills, should STFU “as you so crudely put it”.
    In my previous comment I never said pagans or wiccans “fuck with the freedom of others”. I said that religions, including paganism and wicca, “differ in the degree to which they try to fuck with the freedom of
    others.” Now, that means that some of them may not fuck with the freedom of others at all while some fuck with those freedoms immensely.  And, I think it is clear from the context that I was implying that wicca and paganism fall nearer the don’t fuck at all end of the sprectrum.
    If you are a wiccan or pagan, I suggest a more appropriate thing for you to be offended by would be my insistence that those belief systems are nutty.
    If you’re going to be overly sensitive about your unsubstantiated, ridiculous beliefs, at least get upset about actual insults…not things no one ever said.

    None the less, your misplaced, righteous indignation was amusing. Thanks.

  • phantomreader42

     David Barton is not a historian, he is a fraud.  He lies for money.  You, Rwlawoffice, are the one who has guzzled the revisionist kool-aid that lying sack of shit Barton sells by the gallon. 

    This is not a christian nation.  It never has been.  Anyone who says it is is an idiot and a liar.  Anyone who tries to turn it into one is a traitor.  David Barton is a stupid, lying thieving traitor. 

  • datsneefa

    Another redneck voted in that has no idea what they are doing…

  • I dont think her privilege is showing – it’s her lack of intelligence and reason. 

  • BC

    How would Mormonism shock Christians? Mormons ARE Christian. The Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. By the way, the LDS (or Mormons, as you say) do fund their own schools, and do not apply for governmental grants. So, they agree with you in principle — there is freedom of religion (all religions) and there is a separation between Church and State.

  • Flowergirl_33102

    I love your comment!!! I woke my whole house up laughing so hard! I agree with exactly everything you just said….omggggg

  • Kate

    Nice! How about the Louisiana School of Wicca and Witchcraft? Or the Baton Rouge Academy of New Age Living? Seriously, we could come up with hundreds…

  • 1) Most Christians of the Rep. Hodges variety would probably blanche if you said that Mormons are Christians.

    2) That’s why most of them didn’t want to vote for Mitt Romney, remember? Because his religion is not “Christian”. That’s how they see it.

    3) It does not matter how you or Mormons see it. For this idea to work, it matters how fundamentalist Christians see it. You may think Mormonism is Christian, but they do not. To them, Mormonism is a literal heresy.

    4) I wasn’t being absolutely serious and I do know that Morons have their own schools since a hundred and fifty years of proud anti-intellectual history. The point was to throw names in there of religions which Christian fundamentalists might find shocking – not to dissect who is already getting, interested in, or simply not interested in government funding.

  • ” I would have to disagree with the level of religious infringement increasing. There is a reason that the Catholic church doesn’t rule the western world like it used to.”

    I disagree with your disagreement. There has been a resurgence of fundamentalism all over the world. One reason that atheists have become so outspoken is because our rights have been infringed upon.

    “The fact is that Atheists are winning.”

    A little early to say.

    “People with religions ought to be able to speak their minds in politics without being derided by the left and those on the right shouldn’t force their ideals onto atheists and those of other religious persuasions.”

    It depends what they believe. Generally, they believe in nonsense and I don’t have to respect that at all, no. Here, in Israel, if some fundie orthodox idiot says that women have to move to the back of the bus, I’ll give them the fucking finger, ok? If some asshole politician in America says that creationism should be taught in the classroom, I’ll also give them the finger. I don’t have to respect what they think or say at all if it’s utter nonsense. And if they’re trying to force their ideals on to me, then I bloody well am going to reciprocate.

    “The main issue I have is that while the left claims to ultimately  be tolerant of everybody (gays are the best current example of this) they then refuse to allow people whose beliefs are the center of their lives to allow those beliefs to guide them in their political decisions.”

    Does that mean I have to respect the “ideological differences” I have with racists who think that Jews and Blacks should be 3rd class citizens or simply exterminated? Because, you know, the whole “tolerance” thing?

    “Also, I wasn’t trying to be touchy feely about it. More live and let live.”

    Sounds to me like you were. But if you want to live and let live with people out to destroy you, good luck with that. Sometimes, it’s an idiotic philosophy.

  • I don’t coddle the idiotic beliefs of others simply because they want them to be. If, for instance, I meet a racist (and I have) who thinks that all Jews and Blacks should be exterminated or deported back to Africa, I don’t stand around thinking about how I shouldn’t blow some holes in their idiotic beliefs with an ideological .357 Magnum.

    Maybe you want to sit there and stroke and caress their egos, but I sure as hell don’t.

  • Liveinpeace1111

    She sounds like a religious extremist

  • There ya go. I
    attended Catholic school through 9th grade. At the time you couldn’t
    find a protestant in the country who would support a tax break let alone
    “vouchers” going to Catholic schools!

  • Not_Phyllis


  • Ejinks1034

    The only requierment for entrance would be an understanding of the word “literally”….as in “no religious organizations were literally shocked by this”

  • Paganism/Wiccanism/Druidism are all based on the study and reverence of Nature.  While there are some spiritual aspects and Deified personifications, it’s still essentially Earth-worship. So no, not quite as nutty as some others, like the Believers of the Sky Cake. ;P

  • People have to right to whatever type of schools they want. They don’t have a right to have them paid for with tax dollars, that’s all.

  • chinob53

    Hilarious! Oh, by the way, if you would like to send her a congratulatory message for her hindsight, this is her website: http://www.valariehodges.com/contact . I’m sure we would love the kickback on her website. LMAO…

  • amycas

    ” …including what has been referred to as the Jefferson bible. This was a
    shorthand version of the gospels specifically designed to teach the
    gospels of Christ to the Indians. That is the title of the book itself.”

    Actually the formal title of the work was: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

    The 1804 version, with which he expressed displeasure included a subtitle about Indians, but the full version published later did not include that in the title.

    While his reasons for writing this abridged New Testament can be disputed, the title of the final version does not include anything about teaching Christ to Native Americans (or Indians, as he would have called them).

  • amycas


  • Kstephen

    Just the typical teabagger who invokes the founding fathers but has no idea whatsoever who they were or what they were about. Theists, deists, and PLENTY of atheists.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Truth is ignored here all the time

  • Rwlawoffice

    You as well as throckmorton confuse Jefferson’s objections to organized religion with him not being a Christian. In fact the other quotes I gave you were written by him in response to it hose who contended that he was not a Christian. As for his signing under the phrase in the year of our lord Jesus Christ, throckmorton says what you have stated, that this was a common phrase and part of the sea letter treaty with the unsupported assertion that Jefferson could not change that language. There is nothing that I have seen that says that a president was forced to use the form without the ability to change it. This was not the onlyo document signed this way and if Jefferson was not a Christian he surely could have changed them. Further and more importantly when he was being accused of not being a Christian by his contemporaries he denied it not onlyo did one not say I am a diest, he said he was a christian.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Jefferson was a full supporter of the entire bible. He did enjoy the moral teachings of Jesus and cut them out in an abridged version for his own use and that he passednputnto new members of congress but it is simply modern revisionism to saybthatbthis means he did not believe the entire bible

  • Rwlawoffice

    You are mistaking Jefferson’s distaste for denominations with your presumption that this means he was not an orthodox Christian. He clearly was opposd to demoninations but he clearly was a Christian. He had the opportunity to say otherwise in this letter and did not. By the way, what doctrines of christianity do you contend he says he doesnt belief in ?

  • Rwlawoffice

    There were two of these. One in 1804 with the title that included their use for preaching the gospel to the Indians and one in 1820 without that title. The later one does not discount or replace the first one.

  • Rwlawoffice

    I’m not contending that the us was founded to be a Christian nation in the sense of a theocracy. I am saying that the founding fathers were Christians. So the treaty of tripoli is irrelevant to this discussion. With that in mind however this treaty should be put in its proper context. The reference was to assure the other party to the treaty that we were not at war with them because religious reasons like the European countries that were theocracies and religiously opposed to Muslims. It was not meant for any other reason.

  • Rwlawofice

    Name one founding father who was an atheist.

  • Game Guru

     Someone call Steven Colbert. And I am 100% dead serious about that. I would be in danger of dying by laughing.

  • Alexander Dukes

     Make OBL

  • Rich


  • swampwiz

    HA HA!  (BTW, I live in the same redneck Florida Parishes section of Louisiana not too far from Livingston Parish.)

  •  Which is, of course, a lie.

  •  No need for Church of Chuck Norris.  We already have too many churches teaching bigotry as it is.  ;P

  • Kathy Stites

    I am in full agreement. Jindal is a big part of the problem here in Louisiana.
    I will be happy to see him go, no matter where it is.
    Those who like or feel empathy with him cannot truly understand how far back he has set our state.
    We were better off with the silver fox.

  • Dizcuzted

    Are there Diest schools popping up in Louisianna?  Because they’d have to outnumber Christian schools about 3 to 2 if they wanted to represent the Founding Fathers.

  • Dizcuzted

    Yes!  Angels in corsets and thigh-high boots…

  • Dizcuzted

     Magic, Woody Allen, Zombie, Superman Jesus…

  • Dizcuzted

     Identical, actually.  The only difference is semantics.

  • Dizcuzted

     Why would you consider it absurd?  They’re both equally nutty in my experience.  The only thing making Mormonism different than Scientology is about 130 years between their founding charlatans pulling random ideas out of their asses.

  • Dizcuzted

     I think you misspelled “moron”.

  • Jean Dobbin

    Oy.  If this wasn’t so funny it would be tragic.  I am always astounded when Christians show their bigotry .. but to call the founding fathers Christians is the epitome of newspeak .. as Deists (most of them) they were wise to emphasize that, for their vision to survive, there must be a wall between *church* and state. 

  • Jean Dobbin

    Colbert is on vacation .. but this story won’t get stale in the interim.

  • shivabeach

    I have to ask, why havent the states courts determined this to be unconstitutional to start with?

    On the other hand, Valarie Hodges is dumber than a box of hats

  • Jean Dobbin

    Uh huh, they glorify the messenger and ignore (or distort) the message .. and BTW Paul was a sexual hysteric.

  •  I like this… except the fact that you seem to not realize Mormons are a Christian church, just with an extra book…

    So other than that, yes ◦◕ ᴥ ◕◦ ¥

  • TCC

    Jefferson did not just have a “distaste for denominations.”

    How about the divinity of Christ (which the full quote from his 1803 letter to Rush shows) and the virgin birth (see the 1823 John Adams letter cited above)? I’d say that those are not inconsequential beliefs.

    By the way, that same 1823 letter to Adams also argues that the divinity of Christ is argued poorly from John 1, where he suggests that logos does not mean “The Word” as is commonly translated but instead reason. Yeah, definitely an orthodox Christian.

  • Jim Linsley

    “I won’t go back home and explain to my people that I supported this,” Republican state Rep. Kenneth Havard said, referring to the vouchers “that fund Islamic teaching.”   

    She DID support it.  Obviously she will lie to her constituents too. 

  • TCC

    Who said that the Constitution was built on “anti-Christian” ideas? Secular ≠ anti-Christian.

    Although I would love to hear your case for why the First Amendment and the First Commandment are so utterly opposed to each other…

  • TCC

    Given that “atheist” was a pejorative term, it’s unlikely that you’d find any well-known figure who professed atheism even in private letters.

    That said, you are correct that there is no evidence that any of the Founding Fathers were atheists, and there is also plenty of evidence to suggest that not all of them were orthodox Christians (although some were). And most importantly, they left us a government that was unabashedly secular, omitting (to the consternation of the devoutly religious Christians both of the day and since then) references to God and inserting a ban on religious tests for office. This pissing contest about which camp gets to claim which Founding Fathers is pointless because they created a secular system to avoid all of these sectarian issues.

  • TCC

    No (or should I say, NO). James Madison was an Episcopalian. He was definitely strongly in favor of church-state separation, though.

  • Speterson

     The clergy,
    by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine
    of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and
    religious rights of man.

    — Thomas Jefferson, to Jeremiah Moor, 1800

    I know it
    will give great offense to the clergy, but the advocate of religious
    freedom is to expect neither peace nor forgiveness from them.

    — Thomas Jefferson, to Levi Lincoln, 1802. ME 10:305

    man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship,
    place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained,
    molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer,
    on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall
    be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in
    matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish,
    enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

    — Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, ed, Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), p. 347

    I never
    will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a
    right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.

    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Dowse, April 19, 1803
    Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.

    — Thomas Jefferson,
    letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim
    that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United
    States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it
    does not address. This argument is still used today by “Christian
    Nation” revisionists who do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson’s
    thorough research of this matter.

  • TiltedHorizon

    So anyone who does not agree with you and Barton is confused. Talk about blind faith….

    First you stated Jefferson founded the Bible Society, which is obviously false. You reply by claiming I’m blinded by secular sources then pull another Barton falsehood with “Jefferson signed ‘In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ’ ” as proof of his Christianity. I then evidence this as part of a standard document AND I found a Christian source. To which you state we are both confused and Jefferson could have changed the document, as if it makes any sense. Again, it’s common language, not an assertion of faith, there is no need to change it. If you look at treaty there are two forms, both use the same common language:


    There are also hundreds of hits on Google Books which display evidence of common use: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22in+the+year+of+our+lord+christ%22&btnG=

    “Further and more importantly when he was being accused of not being a Christian by his contemporaries he denied it not onlyo did one not say I am a diest, he said he was a christian.”

    Deism = Christian. The same way Catholicism = Christian, Mormon, Evangelical, Angelical, Jesuit, Lutheran, ETC, all count themselves as Christian. Read more what make Deism different here: http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm

  • Claypaulmurray

    I have one word for all of you….well, depending on how the state works it could be two. Impeach, or recall, this ignorant politician making decisions for us. We can do better! If this is not possible, I beg you to leave the state.

  • Visitor

    Brilliant commentary on a stupid sectarian law.  Also, clever “friendly atheist” reversible upside-down logo!

  • bulldoggerr

     could I get a free ride through a culinary school as an ardent FSM believer?

  • Jenny

    An interfaith school that accepted many religions would be nice.

  • Santiago Billy

    Making a Pastafarian school would also qualify in the name of his Noodliness, RAMEN.

  • Robinsondam

    The founding fathers religion? The founding fathers deliberately kept their religion out of the matter despite what these religious idiots would have us believe.

  • Nightfly04

    can we start a pastafarian school?

  • Bluedagger1

    These Foolish “Representatives”  can’t seem to grasp the concept that Goverment funds for “religious groups” are either for ALL beliefs….equally……or NONE…equally.     Sadder Still …is that these same “Representatives” who are supposed to follow the Constitution….. can’t get it through thier heads….that the United States…is NOT a “Christian” or any other  Theocratic based Nation….     One would think that after Congress/Senate READ the entire Constitution word for word on Network TV a while back…they might of caught that bit.

  • Omalleydp

    you shouldn’t be an elected representative unless you understand the Constitution

  • trekmuse

    I think an Atheist school should apply, right next to a Pagan school. Feh, on fundamentalist Christians.

  • raysny

     Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color and off is a TV station.

  • raysny

    I propose the new “Barton Rule”. Anyone who uses David Barton as a legitimate source in an argument loses and the only proper response is “Barton. Hahahahahahahaha.”

  • raysny

    Atheists, humanists, and freethinkers have been telling jokes and publishing cartoons about this sort of thing happening for years. Guess the Republicans have never seen or heard them because they have no sense of humor.

  • Cmcavall

    How do we get citizens of Lousiana to stop voting for Republicans?

  • Timroy

    Some of this is very funny and some went right over my head, way too intellectual for me.
    But, I think it is time to get serious about these fundamentalist and their agenda.  They are not only haters of Islamist, but off people who accept Islamist as their neighbors.  The hypocrisy of these people is jolting and alarming.  I have a cousin, a minister, who wrote to me over the weekend to tell me that a line has been drawn in the sand.  I cannot be an Atheist, or Deist,
    or have my own thoughts of how I should believe in God.  I have told him I believe in God, just not his.  He said I have to make a choice, either choose Jesus ,or, and he left the alternative implied.  The punisihment he implied does not take place in hell, but that the believers and teachers of Christianity will be ruling this country by the rules of the Bible.  I have to make a choice now.   Would I accept Jesus with a gun at my head?  I assume he will be the Inquisition Czar.  These Zealots, pro Israeli, hot heads are coming out of the wood work.  My cousin believes that Jerusalem will be the center of the Christian world. 

  • Sam Eubank

    *a lot* There’s a space between ‘a’ and ‘lot’. Oh, I also attend Grammar Nazi High. 

  • Basicwil

    Someone please explain how vouchers are used to fund a faith. Vouchers are used to provide an education alternative to those who may not have options when it comes to their children’s education. Contrary to the writer’s misguided claim the funds are not used to promote religion or a faith. The child using the voucher is not required to take a religion course to attend the schools.

  • Basicwil

    Strange how an high school math teacher is unable to put 2+2 together. First, vouchers have been deemed constitutional by the courts despite your fraudulent claim. Second, vouchers are an educational construct and not a religious one. You know who opposes vouchers? Corrupt teacher’s union whose main purpose is to protect incompetent teachers oppose vouchers. Ask yourself why.

  • Kingsleyjn

    This entire article is a fact less attempt to deceive the gullible. I have no respect for the ignorant legislator but even less for the writer who openly prints falsehoods to promote his agenda. When you can provided evidence vouchers are being used to fund a faith as you allude too, I’ll listen. But you and I both know you’re full of bull. Luckily for you your readers appear to be none too bright.

  • Ist

    Tim, one thing you need to get straight before discussing this with folks, lest they misunderstand you.  “Muslim” is what you call someone who practices Islam.  “Islamist” is more equal to “Evangelical”  or “Fundamentalist,” or someone who practices an extreme form of  his religious path.  So… again….  Muslim=Christian=Jew=Buddhist.   Islamist=Fundamentalist=Orthodox Jew=Jainist.  

  • TCC

    Hemant’s claim about the constitutionality of vouchers may be wrong, but it’s not fraudulent. Also, you obviously don’t understand the function of teachers’ unions.

  • TCC

    Maybe it’s the fact that he said the authors of the gospels and Paul were corrupters of Christianity that might have given us that impression.

  • Speterson

     If that educational alternative is at a religious school, it is very likely the student will receive indoctrination. In addition, history & science curriculum is often altered to meet the beliefs of the religion/denomination. Add the religious icons, scheduled daily prayers, etc. and it amounts to promoting religion.

    Personally, I was raised a Catholic in a small southern town (one PUBLIC high school) dominated by Southern Baptists. We didn’t have school dances because the Baptists thought it was a sin. Catholics love to dance! We also prayed each morning – “The Lord’s Prayer”. Catholics say the “Our Father” – a different version. The message was clear to me – they had the right religion and my parent’s religion was the wrong one. Just imagine being Jewish or Islam and having to say a Christian prayer!

  • Geefacc2

    School vouchers are not unconstitutional. And they don’t ‘fund someone’s faith,’ paranoid atheist blogger, they return the coercively obtained tax money that parents lost to pay for other kids’ schooling. Whether or not it’s a religious school is immaterial as  long as it’s going to a school.

    Parents should be given vouchers if they don’t want their kids going to public school – or not pay an appropriate amount in taxes. The more competitive schools are for funds the more they will cater to their clients. Eventually, vouchers could drastically improve the product of K-12 education.

    As for your calling out an unprincipled politician, I salute you.

  • TCC

    First, the fact that you call it “coercively obtained tax money” is pretty telling.

    Second, public education is a public good and is intended to benefit everyone, even people who are not and will never be parents.

    Third, there is no clear evidence that vouchers would actually improve outcomes at all. The insinuation that competition would work in public education, which is an entirely different beast than higher education, isn’t well-founded, frankly.

    Fourth, vouchers are more likely to hurt public education than help it, since it would hurt already-strapped districts by taking away some of their revenue.

    Fifth, there would have to be accountability systems in place for private schools if they are going to receive money that would go to public schools.

  • Voucher programs aren’t in general unconstitutional.  The main sticking point seems to be the availability of a variety of schools, including secular schools.  So as long as the parents have the option of a secular school, also having the choice of a particular religious school is not a violation of the establishment clause.  There are some exceptions though.

    The Arizona Supreme Court on Wednesday declared the state’s school-voucher programs unconstitutional because they violate a ban against appropriating public money for private or religious schools.


    There was an interesting one (in TX I think?) where parents are given a tax credit if they send their kid to a private school.  It’s exactly the same effect, but since it’s worded as a tax credit, the court refused to hear the case saying plaintiffs didn’t have standing.For calling out an error, I salute you.  As for tax money- hey, it’s all ‘coercive’, if you want it to be.

  • David Leibowitz

    Funny thing, I’m Jewish and I always thought America included me.

  • Rfen

    “Islam is not a religion; it is a Theo political construct. Less than a quarter of the Quarantine [sic] and Haddith have anything to do with religion.”

    …you’ve never read much of the Bible, have you? Large slabs of the Old Testament are nothing but Jewish history, mythology or law. Most of Leviticus is basically a book of laws couched as divine commandments. If Islam is not a religion then nor is Christianity.

  •  Beck is a Scientologist by birth. *Glenn* Beck is a Mormon.

  • Doh! I knew that!

  • Aliza Finkelstein

    Yes, me too. I always find these occasional sadly unashamed political attempts at reconstructing the nation as an exclusively Christian nation that marginalizes the citizenship of other religions to be very, very disturbing.

  • Aliza

    A school voucher will only continue to play into treating education as a business model, which always has the same effects: the schools that have impoverished, under-performing students will continue to have their school budget and resources slashed, which leads to further under-performance with the unstated intent of shutting down the schools and “reopening” them with only 50% rehiring of former staff who apply as a form of union busting. School vouchers just play into this union busting, and all it is is a means for politicians to try to frame “public schools” or “teachers” as the enemy when they are the very entity responsible for cutting the budgets that would help failing districts in the first place, and who continuously ignore the underlying issues in communities that are under-performing. Vouchers severely harm public education, its students, its communities and its employees.

  • Bob


  • Thomas Jefferson was pretty damn close.

  • UncleBenny

     The New York Nephilim. Has a nice bit of alliteration to it.

  • Derrik Pates

    Sounds very much like the Puritans’ idea of “religious freedom” (i.e., we get all the freedom, you get nothing), and not very much like that of our founders.

  • guest

    I have been trying to explain this principle to my fundamentalist Christian family for years…they just can’t get it.  Or sadly they just don’t want to get it.

  • Derrik Pates

    Hello, I would like to attend your school. I’m 33, but I don’t care – I would be in for this.

  • Derrik Pates

    Many of them were Deist. But even those that were not (James Madison, anyone?) knew perfectly well why this sort of thing was a terrible, terrible idea, and the poor track record religion really had.

  • I wish this was the exception.

  • Derrik Pates

    What about the Church of the Sub-Genius? Bob Dobbs needs a piece of this.

  • HA HA HA!! YES!! 
    Also… The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster should apply for funding! Pastafarians in Lousiana… please start a petition!

  • DO IT!

  • Derrik Pates

    Apparently he’s been listening to David Barton way too much.

  • Freedom of Religion

    As a pagan, I would not want to be represented by an athiest group.  Just sayin’

  • You’d have to kill them first.. 😉

  • That is just plain hilarious, your own bigotry backfires and you cannot ignore it any longer…. I just love that…. I’m moving there and will asks for funds to create the Invisible Pink Unicorn College and the Pastafarian Noodle University

  • John

    I gave my opinion of Rep Hodges ignorance and bigotry on her  face book page please do the same

  • Derrik Pates

    Too bad so few Christians seem to come anywhere close to the supposed Christian ideal. Perhaps you, as a self-identified Christian could help to set that better example?

    Or you could keep making excuses. Whatever works. I can’t tell you what to do.

  • Derrik Pates

    Someone has to bring a challenge in court for it to be ruled un-Constitutional. The Supreme Court can’t just step in and say “uh hey guys, you can’t do this, this is against the Constitution”. Hopefully someone will do so – because this is a situation that needs it.

  • Derrik Pates

    And even those who were Christians, like James Madison, knew good and well why that high, strong wall was necessary.

  • Charliecover

    maybe we should each start a religion and apply for funds.  that way we won’t have to work.  i mean, we’ll work at getting people to pay into our “mission” to convert the poor suffering disbelieving souls.  

  • Derrik Pates

    Not sure if Poe…

  • Derrik Pates

    None of them (that we knew of) were atheist. Many of them were deists, however. Not all, but many.

  • InitHello
  • Wrickman1

    Our founding fathers may have been Christian in numbers since a majority were slave-owners, but those who actually did the constitution were Deists. The only prominent Christian framer was John Adams, and he was a Congregationalist, and they deny the divinity of Christ.

    The percentage of our population  who were Christians in 1776 was 18% By the time the Constitution was written in 1787 that percentage had shrunk to under 16%.

    Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Madison, Gouverneur Morris (Who gave more speeches than  anyone, composed the first draft, wrote the beautiful Preamble, and is the principal author of the Constitution) and any other notable contributors you can name were Deists or atheists.

    History is the great truth-giver, and you can Google what I have written and you will find that what I have spoken is the truth.

    No, we are not, nor  have we ever been, a Christian Nation, and this was established by Congress in 1797.  It is easy to say the founders were Christians, but it is not true.

    Muslim Schools are just as appropriate recipients of these fund as are schools of any faith — Bahia, Hindu,  Buddhist et al. Voodoo, anyone?  Scientology?

    You could not write a law giving money to Christian Schools alone.

    W. Maurice Rickman

  • Max W.

    Isn’t Wiccan also a recognized religion? I. Cannot. Stop. Laughing.

  • Ramakant Kumar

    I think this is problem of their concrete thinking that she just think about her community. America is a country of freedom. You can’t bound Americans in your thinking. You should apologize about this.
    That’s a <

  • Spydar71

    Oh. I guess the concept of equality is a new one. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Did we forget that our government can’t and is constitutional prohibited from picking one religion over another?

  • N5uv

    Great article in Slate about the new bill in Florida for allowing an “inspirational message” to be allowed, by the students of course (to avoid the obvious legal challenge).  At the end of the article, they basically said by this same token, just how receptive are school administrators going to be to this law when an atheist gets their chance to speak. 


    Please read some N.T. Wright, author of several books re: the “New Perspective on Paul”.  Helps break down some of the “old” misunderstandings of Paul’s writings to view them from first century Jewish and Gentile eyes (instead of 21st century American Christian eyes).  Turns out Paul and Jesus didn’t actually teach different “Gospels” (Good News, that is).
    BTW…not all Christians support state funding of Christian (or other religious) schools, or hate Muslim folks and want to take away their rights. 
    Unfortunately, many people who might otherwise be drawn to Jesus based on his words (perhaps paraphrased by others since most people are afraid to actually sit down and read the teachings of Jesus, lest they appear to be “considering” them seriously as a possible way of living) have walked away because other people have twisted those words.  People experience “bad” Christians and write off Jesus (and God) completely…understandable, but nonetheless ignorant.
    If I see a vegetarian eating a cheeseburger, I don’t assume there are no health benefits to vegetables.  I assume they aren’t great at practicing vegetarianism.  Perhaps, I even assume that NOT eating meat, in a world FULL of cheeseburger joints, is a really difficult challenge, even one worth taking up.  Perhaps I could encourage that vegetarian to put down their cheeseburger and take up their broccoli.

  • dont make jokes out of my god his spaghettiness

  • dog_is_love

     so, you didn’t read the article, then?

  • Derrik Pates

    … but on Crazy Christianity it is.

  • Wufan81

    What a dumb bitch. I did not serve overseas defending the constitution to have a political leader piss on all we fight for. I am ashamed to be an american right now.

  • Emma Charlotte-Duerre

    Stupid people believe that Muslim terrorists were responsible for 9/11.

  • Siaazimi

    Not the Muslim ones?? WOW lady!! You and your buddy W can change this country in to a ……..

  • losers-_-


  • T.A.

    The LA representative is too typical of southern “Christian” bigots: racism hiding behind her capped teeth. I would bet she cuts food stamps, also.

  • You didn’t get the joke.

  • Samhain1969

    Am sure there am plenty of dems in Lousy-Anna.

  • Samhain1969

    or…  David Duke High

  • Astounding that people can be so ignorant.  I like Summer Seale’s comment about the Church of Satan.  Without looking at the other 756 comments, I’m sure quite a few mention Flying Spaghetti Monsterism as well.  I have a private pipe dream that I could create an open-source religion that declares the abuses and weaknesses that cause other faiths to be co-opted by hucksters, bad politicians, and such to be sins.  I kind of appreciate the ideals of early Protestants that no one should rely on being a minister as a career; they should all have to work for a living.

    What do you say? I think this could catch on. It could make every other faith on Earth obsolete.

  • Menotyou

    You know that Thomas Jefferson, re-wrote the new testament and took out the divinity of Jesus Christ (it’s known as the Jefferson Bible).

  • MargaretEDavis

    So you want your religion to be able to take taxpayer money, which a lot of them don’t want it to be given to, BUT, you don’t want any other religion to be able to get that same taxpayer money. How selfish. Just remember that there are hundreds of different religions . that just because you want the government to fund your religion only you would be breaking the law.

  • MargaretEDavis

     I think we would have a lot less of those preachers and their religions out there if we took away that tax free status. Just look at how rich these people are getting and it being used for their personal benefit, funding schools, and we are the ones paying, because they are getting to keep the tax money they don’t have to pay.

  • MargaretEDavis

     You shouldn’t be ashamed to be an American, what you should be ashamed of tho is being a republican they are the ones who want to control you and the things you fought for ..

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