Can You Be Alone with Someone of the Opposite Sex if You’re Married?

I’m interested how this fits with the idea that homosexuality can be cured. Surely, in that case, we’re all ‘at risk’ of turning gay, so being alone with a man in the car is still tempting fate? I mean obviously it’s not as much of a danger as being alone with a woman, but hey, “better safe than sorry”.

Wow, people actually think like that? How the hell do you get to trusting yourself that little?

How the hell do you get to trusting yourself that little?

I’m tempted to suggest that it’s because certain religions encourage individuals to trust themselves so little. I think this is the case, but I suspect the causality might work the other way too: perhaps people who don’t trust themselves are attracted to religion, since it provides an apparently simple and rigid framework to live by. That, of course, leaves the question of what led these people to lose faith in themselves wide open.

So long as these people are not requiring others to do it, I don’t see a problem.

I still get emails from the church I used to go to – a month or so ago they sent out a request for people to do painting in the building, but specifically wrote in the request that of course, men and women who weren’t married to each other couldn’t be working together in the same area at the same time. Um, of course?

My biggest concern is not my partner but the possibility of a sexual harassment complaint. I have been burned by crazies who accuse crazy things that never happened. I would rather not be in a car by myself with a member of the opposite sex that I don’t know just in the off chance someone made an accusation.

This is why it’s so important to have laws banning same-sex marriage: with those laws in place, they’ll know that “society” would frown on the relationship and so be able to restrain themselves when in a car with someone of the same gender.

These people are whacko and totally immature. Now Thundergod, what are the chances of that? That is being ridiculously overcautious, you are more likely to win a lottery.
But several people here make a good point. Why are these people so unable to trust themselves? In part it might be the concept of original sin, whereby we are all of Satan and only survive by the thin thread of belief.
But I think more likely is most of them must have really unsatisfactory marriages. The whole things reeks of instability, a structure so weak it can only be held in place by stringent external controls.

My mormon mother was absolutely appalled to find out I had met a male friend from high school for lunch. She told me I needed to “shape up and behave” now that I was married and asked what my husband thought of it all. Fact is, he didn’t mind and had been planning on joining, but had a change in his work schedule at the last minute. My husband trusts me and I trust him. He gets along well with pretty much everyone, but I tend to get along best with guys. Almost all of our friends overlap and we have open communication about things.

It’s really about how much you trust yourself (and for some people, it may be tempting enough with certain people that it’s best to avoid being alone with them) and your partner. As long as both parties are happy and informed, being with members of the opposite sex shouldn’t be a big deal.

On the other hand, if one partner does start feeling attraction to someone outside the relationship, it is just as important to communicate that to their spouse and discuss ways to handle it -together- Talk with your partner, love them, respect them and remember you’re both human.

I can’t believe someone would be so insecure about this. The vast majority of my friends are male, and a couple of them are ex boyfriends, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to do them if left alone with them. If I was dating someone who had a problem with me hanging out with them, well, we wouldn’t be dating anymore.

This is a mindset formed by his religious background.
When you believe that woman corrupted man and got him kicked out of paradise.
When you believe that sex between unmarried couples is sinful.
When you revere the idea of a monogamous relationship to mystical lengths.
When you consider any sex aside from boy/girl to be sinful.
This is what you get.

The poor guy is scared. He is afraid the wicked sinful woman might give in to her base nature and try to seduce him. He is scared he won’t have the willpower to resist.

The poor guy is immature. He sees women as sexual objects first and foremost, even a lift to the airport becomes a sexual question. He needs to learn to view the sexual aspect of women in its proper context. e.g. not involved in giving some a lift to the airport.

The guy doesn’t trust himself. At a guess, this man never went out sowing his wild oats as a younger man. He never partied with girls and guys together. He never had the situation of interacting with girls as if they were just people.

This is a profoundly unhealthy mindset. I’m not saying everyone should whore it up in their youth, but mixing with girls at school, at work, in social situations makes them less of a mystical sex beast to conquer or fear and more a person to interact with.

I feel sorry for this guy. I’m sure his marriage is lovely but if his first thought on being offered a lift by a woman (one he hasn’t even seen yet) is OMFG SEX!!!! then he really needs to get some perspective on his relationships with women.

I just can’t quite get around the idea that this man is apparently so irresistable that this woman, while driving a car in LA, no less, will be unable to resist the temptation to f*** him right then and there.

Uh, yeah.

Shaking my head. There are companies that makes a specific issue of being welcoming to a mixed homo- and heterosexual group. Does that mean that NOBODY could be trusted with ANYBODY? Have we really slipped that far?

My two cents? If a married person does not feel that they can trust their mate, they already have a problem, whether an actual affair happens or not.

Sounds pretty much like my grandfather, when he was sitting with me in his car and got into a temper tantrum, after seeing two men holding hands, im sure he had ideas bout them giving him his turn on the hood of the car.
But then again dont know many deeply christian women, so they might be some kind of dangerous maneating womenfolk!

None of this would be a problem if we just kept the women in the kitchen where they belong.

I’m with Cherie M and Jennifurret–pretty much all of my friends are boys, too, and they’re also mostly my boyfriend’s friends. He trusts me and I trust him on this one–although of course we have an agreement where certain celebrities are concerned. 😉

I also wonder if, in addition to the other ideas here, it’s a way of showing how faithful they are. Not that they’re entirely acting, but that they’re making a big deal out of it mostly to get attention from other people.

Some commentators seem to be trying to come up with external reasons why Christians and Muslims seem to feel unable to control themselves; e.g. they have unsatisfying marriages or are just bad people. I think it is more of a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you believe yourself to be by nature (the fall and all that goodness) sinful and liable to give in to temptation, it goes without saying that you will be less likely to take responsibility for your actions; more likely to use your own imperfect nature as an excuse to misbehave.

I’ll bet a more immediate and real problem than men’s inability to control themselves is their partners’ belief in men’s inability to control themselves.

Even if a man knows that he’s not going to slip down that slope, our sex-obsessed culture may have convinced his wife that he cannot be alone with another woman without being overcome with desire.

And that very real, very dangerous jealousy is something that the man might reasonably seek to avoid.

(This is my guess, but I’m speaking as a man married to a very sensible, non-jealous woman.)

Jesus,if you’re bi its going to be a long walk all the time.

Crap. I’m going to be spending a lot on shoes.

You know, when I was going to youth group back in middle/high school, my (male) youth pastor canceled a trip to the beach because only girls signed up, and he thought it would be inappropriate to take 3 girls to the beach without either a female chaperon or other young boys there.

But in that case, there was a definite power differential and I could see how some parents would feel uncomfortable. In the case of a man and a woman in a car together for no more than an hour? Ridiculous.

I suspect this has less to do with the man thinking he can’t control himself and more to do with him wanting all the other fundies to know how pious he is. It’s all a show with these people.

It seems to me that this is exactly the kind of thinking that will lead to an affair. Everything is a temptation, every situation is sexualized. If you can lighthearted about casual, platonic interactions with the opposite sex, then they really are no big deal. But if your culture and community are hyperreactive to them, you genuinely do start to see them as the end of a mile-long wick that will ultimately burn down to a big explosion. It’s self-fulfilling.

I had a co-worker several years ago who had the same policy. He was an ordained minister, but not working in that field. He always quoted Billy Graham saying he’d never been alone with another woman but his wife in his entire adult life. He supervised both men and women, and insisted on having another man present even in a 5 minute meeting with a female employee, no female employee meetings in his office, etc…

He eventually lost his job. For? You guessed it – sexual harassment. While never alone with a woman – he managed to harass them via e-mail.

Which adds to what others have said – just because you’re attracted to a person doesn’t mean they’re attracted to you.

(Or animals, or objects, or…..)

Good point! I’m going to give away my dog this afternoon. She is female, and we already take long walks in the moonlight together. Now I’ve realized it’s nothing but a slippery slope towards rampant bestiality! What was I thinking?

Wow. I don’t think I could ever be part of a religion, true or not, that didn’t treat me like a responsible adult.

but it seems very possible to me that you can have close platonic friendships with the opposite sex

Getting a ride is one thing. Friendship is very different. While I know I wouldn’t do anything, I have serious doubts that everyone can handle friendships.

Eventually there’s going to be a lull in your marital relationship due to problems or whatever life throws at you. If you’re friends with someone even moderately attractive who’s already established as a good conversation partner, it could lead to regrets.
It’s the low points when sex will be on the wane with your spouse/partner and you’ll be looking for emotional solace in the form of interaction and talking. Sounds like a dangerous time to go to a friend of the opposite/attractive gender.

Evaluate yourself honestly not just at your best but at your worst, too.

Thundergod made a good point above, and something that I think Acuff left out: For a minority of people, the situation may be dangerous because either they truly wouldn’t be able to control themselves, or they are afraid the person with them wouldn’t be able to control themselves. As Thundergod said, there are a lot of crazies out there who might try to make some money by suing.

But, I think Acuff left out this important consideration: people in positions of authority need to be thinking about these kind of situations because there are a lot of people watching them and waiting to make accusations.

For instance, since the scandals in the Catholic Church, I’m sure that no priest is ever allowed to ride in a car with a minor or a member of the opposite sex if there isn’t a third person in the car with them.

Siamang,

My wife is so much a part of who I am, that there wouldn’t be any reason to go to someone else.

Sounds like you’ve done your evaluation and know yourself. I feel the same. For me, being with someone else has no appeal whatsoever, even during the worst times.

Everything that came to mind when I read this seems to have already been said.

Self-fulfilling prophecies is a big one. When you avoid all “temptation” and situations involving the opposite sex so thoroughly, you unintentionally give every slip-up or necessary situation where you’re alone with someone you’re attracted to a heaping helping of sexual tension.

Also: yes, being bi would mean lots and lots of long walks. But the Christians I know who are like Acuff are also the kind of Christian who think that being bi or gay is a sinful choice, not a natural state.

I am a female in a male-dominated industry and sometimes I make up excuses to avoid a male customer taking me out to lunch. Not because I don’t trust myself. Not because I don’t trust him. But because car dealerships are freaking gossip and drama factories where extramarital affairs actually do happen, and in fact account for a lot of employee turnover.

It doesn’t matter if anything _actually_ happened when we were alone. People will assume it did. And I don’t need that kind of professional reputation even if it’s imaginary.

But specifically stating that you don’t want to be alone with women because of the possibility of an affair? That’s a sign that you shouldn’t be in a relationship at all.

This is what you get from a religion that teaches that the human body is filthy and that lustful thoughts are crimes: men who are terrified of being “defiled” by women (a la Revelation 14:4) and will irrationally avoid women out of fear that they won’t be able to control themselves. Physical adults who are mental children because they’re afraid to face adult situations.

I wouldn’t want to be alone with that guy, either, if he’s afraid he’d instantly jump me. ..because that would be rape.

To me, the way these men are reacting to helping or employing a woman’s help seems like thinly-veiled sexism.

Jon sounds like a pretty normal guy for someone in that cultural context, speaking as someone who comes from that context. My take on this is that the no-being-alone-with-the-opposite-sex thing is a popular idea in evangelical Christianity which isn’t thought through so much as enthusiastically adopted by people who are taught to constantly be on guard against sexual threats (many normal scenarios qualifying as sexual threats, unfortunately). I see it as a Christian trend, like not dating, the prayer of Jabez, etc. As someone who was very lonely while navigating the non-engagement of males and females encouraged by evangelicals and truly struggling to relate when there weren’t any practical guidelines, this approach really isn’t helpful. All the same, I’m glad that Jon values his marriage enough to go to ridiculous lengths to protect it; I guess I prefer that to people taking the marriage commitment casually.

This is a very interesting issue. I work at a Christian organization and it is “frowned upon” (read: you’ll get an off-the-record talking to about it) for a man and a woman to ride in a car without a third party, ever. (No matter if one or both are married or not).

I am a Bible-believing Christian and I find this a little extreme. I disagree that friends of the opposite sex can’t EVER ride in a car together alone. I think occasionally is fine (i.e., a ride to the airport, an infrequent ride home or to an event, etc), even if one or both are married. I don’t think the occasional ride in a car is going to lead to an affair.

HOWEVER: It depends on the couple! Everyone is different and if you or your spouse have issues with trust (and many people do, for many different reasons) then it is VERY important to respect those issues and act accordingly. That’s part of the “cherishing each other until death do you part” vow. My husband and I had trust issues for several years and we did not go anywhere with members of the opposite sex and it really really helped us. We have a strong foundation of trust now and so we have relaxed that rule a bit. But we don’t make a habit of it.

We won’t carpool daily with a coworker if they are of the opposite sex and we have no third party riding with us. Spending time daily alone with someone of the opposite sex can DEFINITELY lead to emotional and/or physical affairs.

So. That’s my opinion. And I’m thankful for the opportunity to participate in this discussion! Take care all, and of course, may God bless you and keep you!

I didn’t see it in the comments so I thought I would mention: Judaism is probably the actual progenitor of this ideal/practice. It’s known as ‘yichud’ (alone [with]), there are numerous cases in which a man and woman are not allowed to be alone together, presuming they are not husband and wife, mother and son, brother and sister, etc. It’s all quite enumerated (like most aspects of Jewish law) and the vast majority of circumstances do not allow for such one on one co-mingling. This is basically only observed by the Orthodox (who make up less than 10% of Jews as a whole) and most non-Orthodox Jews are probably not even aware of such prohibitions. The Talmud dates this law back to the times of King David.

There are certain cases where knowing that a man and woman were alone together causes a presumption of intercourse (keep in mind, they aren’t saying that intercourse did take place, rather that since it could have, it might as well have from a legal perspective).

It does get complex and even amongst the Orthodox there are ways around certain problems (as you would expect, there is a pretty wide spectrum in Orthodoxy between the observant and the zealous). But the far right wing of Orthodoxy takes these laws to the utmost extremes (notably the demand for separate public bus lines in Israel).

Personally, if you are that on the fence and fearful that you *may* have an affair based on a ride to the airport, you are not that secure in both your marriage or your own sexuality.

Seriously, this Acuff guy needs to check his head.

Hemant is more spot on with his thoughts here, and obviously very sure of his own place in society.

My husband and I both have many friends of the opposite gender. It doesn’t bother me and he says he doesn’t both him.

We do have issues from time to time. I’ve had problems with male “friends” who assumed that because I was cool with spending time with them, it automatically meant that I was looking for an affair. Both my husband and I have frequently been accused of cheating and both of us have been approached by numerous same-gender friends with “can’t you see it’s obvious s/he’s cheating on you?”

It’s boggles the mind. I can count on one hand the number of friends we’ve had between the two of us who’ve been totally cool with platonic relationships and not assumed that something else must be going on.

I totally agree with “If you can’t control yourself, maybe you shouldn’t be in a relationship.”

@ zoo

Not to be too terribly offensive, but fuck you. Saying that sometimes women lie is not the answer to this. I have a huge problem with people who assume that women will lie to try to convince people that this guy tried to assault her or tried to get into her pants in some way. Women do not lie about these things that vast majority of the time. That’s why you hear very little about it–women are scared to speak up lest we be called liars or gold diggers attempting to get a lot of money out of a fake rape case. Saying what you said undermines every women who has experienced some sort of harassment and has the courage to come forward and tell the truth about it.

Not to derail, but I don’t appreciate that comment.

Here’s my problem with this crazy bullshit. I remember in my Christian days reading a book by Billy Graham, who said it was his policy to never be alone with a woman in a work situation. Now, sure, he was never accused of an affair, but how far in the company could a woman go if she is always being viewed as a possible sexy temptation? By making her FEMALE COWORKER instead of just coworker, she can never be taken seriously.

By the way, if I were left stranded by some idiot, I would be on the phone with his boss in a heartbeat.

I would bet it has more to do with “CYA” than the slippery slope.

I have a female coworker (I’m a dude) that my wife calls my “work wife.” We go to lunch together, she makes sure I take my medication, we go to antique shops. If she has to run an errand, often driving out to her mom or her husband’s workplace, I tag along. Bottom line, she’s not my type, and even if she was, she’s married. Even if she was my type, and wasn’t married, it would require a long talk with my wife and a prior agreement before I’d act on anything. Even though I don’t have a man in the sky checking up on me, I respect my wife too much to cheat on her.

I work out of my home office and my wife works part-time away from the house and we have had young female babysitters watching our kids while my wife is away. Never once did I even think about sexually harassing them. My wife doesn’t like housework so we also employ housekeepers to come over once every two weeks for general cleaning. Again, females in the house with me while my wife is away working. I treat everybody with professional courtesy. It seems to me that people that have absolute taboos about being with people of the opposite sex tend to objectify the opposite sex and ever learn self-control. As an atheist, I simply follow the golden rule. If I were a female, I wouldn’t want to be raped, so I don’t rape others. Seems logical to me.

Even though I spend most of my days in position of autority with teenage girls it really never crossed my mind that the relation I have with them (based on trust and respect) could be sexual. The very thought of it saddens me.

I guess my reflex to sexualize everything vanished with my faith in Jesus, a couple years ago.

I can agree with what Rhi had to say. I too have used the excuse that, as a married woman, it would be inappropriate to have a one-on-one lunch/dinner meeting with a client/co-work/etc. It’s certainly not a religious thing for me since I’m an atheist (as is my husband), it’s a way to avoid certain situations with which I’m uncomfortable. Now this is a card I don’t play very often, but it’s a handy one to have in the deck.

first off, folks watch too much television. I have given and received many rides to and from work from female colleagues and students.

i have taught Capoeira to many female students over the years. My wife knows about all of these incidents.

I also want to point out that some churchs like the Church Of God in Christ (COGIC) actually have rules that say that a married man cannot be with a single woman, and vice versa, by themselves. SOmeone has to accompany them.

I think this is just as stupid as muslim women wearing the burqa. They say it’s all to prevent temptation etc.

Folks need to grow up and respect one another as men and women.

Clearly, Jon Acuff (and anyone else who wouldn’t accept a ride to the airport from a person of the opposite sex) has no confidence in his ability to resist temptation. I find these actions ridiculous in the extreme unless the guy has some kind of impulse control disorder. What the heck was he expecting, an offer to miss his plane and stop off in a no-tell motel? Is he narcissistic enough to think the thought would even cross the mind of the driver?

Coincidentally, I just posted The Neuroscience of Temptation today.

Roger

How silly! That said, I’m with the group that say they wouldn’t want to be alone in the car with this dude. Mainly because he’s so scared of his own sexuality and half convinced he’s a perv deep down. Dude like that might pull anything.

Thank God I’m Atheist! I work in building maintenance with mostly dudes: male building manager, all male maintenance staff, mostly male security, and mostly male custodial. I’d be shaking in my boots if I were that convinced the male of the species were that unable to control themself.

I was, for a period of some 20 odd years, principal of elementary schools. Particularly in the early years I was the only male on staff. It was not at all unusual for me to meet with my staff on an individual basis. In fact I tried to spend time with each of my teachers each day to ensure that I was on top of the things happening in the school. In my opinion it was the simplest, easiest way for trust to be built and bring about a team driven school where the teachers were free to work with their colleagues and the school administration for the betterment of the children in our care. If Jon Acuff is so unsure of his control over his emotions or sex drive as to be threatened by the possibility of being tempted into “wrong-doing” by the mere presence of a person of the opposite sex alone in the same area with him I am pleased that his field is not education. Incidentally I have been married to the same person for the past 45 years and the thought of being on a “slippery slope” because of my administration methods is repugnant both to me and to the teachers I worked with.

No wonder some christians think atheists might murder them on the spot. Even with God looking over their shoulder, they can’t trust themselves with someone for an hour? Sheesh.

I would NOT phone/text my partner to tell her I was getting in a car with another woman and I wouldn’t expect her to do the same with positions reversed. She’s an adult, and so am I.

We are capable of holding our libidos in check for crying out loud, without propositioning some semi-stranger just because they’re alone with us for a little while.

Anyway, he’s on the way to the airport, for goodness sake – what’s he going to do in the car?

Every way I look at it, the whole thing is just creepy. Does being a fundie really make you that obsessed about sex??

Anyway, someone with that little self-control must be a hell of a lousy lay – who’d want to screw them?

I must comment on this topic. I work in a warehouse atmosphere. I am 1 of two females in my section. I believe myself to be a friendly person, although,not one looking for a man at work. My point is, that because I work with so many men and of course we talk, laugh and work well with each other, I over the last 15 years have been accused of sleeping with many of them. Totally false assumptions, but totally real in being made. Now I can/could have made the choice to clam up and keep to myself for the most part and did for awhile when the rumours first started, until I realized that that made for a more uncomfortable work atmosphere for all of us. Its really a difficult situation and one that after 15 years, I no longer let bother me. All in the same there are some of the men that will stay away from me, only to discuss work related topics. I suppose they do not want to be thrown in the mix of being one I *slept* with. Such a shame. But I understand.

this is not in the least unusual in the christian communities i grew up in. when i was a teenager teaching sunday school, the sunday school group leader (a married man) once gave me a lift home after a meeting. the next sunday at church there were whispers everywhere about this and how inappropriate this had been.

if their fears are true and none of us have self control… what about the bisexuals among us? must we never spend time alone with anyone??
how ridiculous!

and no, not being married doesn’t make a difference to them in most cases, because one must keep oneself pure for a future husband/wife.

Its a year later, but I’ll respond anyways. Its not just about having an affair. A man is protecting himself from a woman making an accusation against him that might not be true.

Also you would be amazed as to what can happen.  When I was 12 and recieved a ride home from the manager of my paper route, he came onto me. I baby sat for someone and her finance drove me home and came on to me, I was about 14. What if I didn’t have strong boudaries or easily manipulated? Also the woman down the road asked for a ride home from my husband at work as she locked her keys in the car and he did. BUT then it didn’t end there, she started phoning all the time and didn’t ask but just simply stated she needed a ride. He just ignored her calls, and so she shunned him at work. I didn’t like it either as she was making the assumption he would just do it.

My friend’s neighour car pulled with a neighbour of the opposite sex and a year later they divorced their spouses and married each other.  It happens.

People don’t go into with the idea that they are going to have an affair but they place themselves in a situation where they become friends and that can lead to other things, especially if they are challenges at home.