What Are the Best Arguments To Use Against Jehovah’s Witnesses?

As a start, concentrate on the things that you and the JWs both believe that differ from what many other Christians believe. (like the belief in Hell or whether Jesus was actually God). Then kind-of push back on some of the other related positions.

Since they tend to try to sell religion based on what they consider logical explanations, it’s easy to deconstruct their argumentation.
One that they tend to use is the “if you find a clock on a field you would think that someone made it and it was lost, so since the universe is so much more complex it needs to have a maker”. If you tell them the also logical argument that no, actually theres a probability (although very small) that the molecules just arranged by chanche on the shape of a clock, they will enter a logical loop and deny you.. I’ve had at least two jeovah witnesses give up on me when I used this argument, which it’s actually valid.. the proability is very, very low, but exists, hence you can’s say it’s impossible.

You can also enter in the freedom of choice versus omniscience argument, which it’s also a dead end for them.. If God is omniscient, it knows everything that happens every time, hence it’s impossible to have free will. If free will exists, God can’t know everything because there’s this part that it’s unknown and will have unknown results, hence no omniscience.

I don’t like that much of militant atheism (which tends to border religion), but if someone knocks on my door and continue to try to peddle me some religion after I tell them that not only I’m not interested but that I’m an atheist then I’ll confront them on my own terms.

I think you need to plant the seeds of doubt and let them grow on their own.

I think a discussion about the morality of the blood transfusion issue, for example, would be of interest. There was a post on it a couple weeks back. “Do you really think that this bible quote means that God wants children to die?”, etc.

One thing you could do is question the fact that every few years, the JWs have predicted it was time for the world to end. They were certain that the world would end in 1914, and then they engaged in some revisionism to claim they never actually said that.

If they’re well entrenched, you’re not going to change their minds right away, but the seeds of reason that you plant may take root years from now. I’ve seen it happen.

1. like ME Skept said above, the JWs predicted the end of the world on several dates. NOthing happened, woops

2. They haven’t proved or explained why they inserted “Jehovah” in to the Bible

3. in the 60s, the JW’s stated in their publications that people of color were inferior.

Ask them about blood transfusions. It’s obvious but worth bringing up once again. Why aren’t they allowed blood? Are they allowed to have bone marrow transplants? Is it just whole blood or is plasma OK? What about white blood cells? What about vitamin K or blood products? Are they allowed to eat Black Pudding (blood sausage) which is largely made from blood? Are organ transplants permissible given that the organs contain blood.

Really though it is probably worth just arguing against every single point that they raise. Their beliefs deserve no respect at all so attack each point as they raise them. If they cite gospel then just dismiss it as an irrelevance that you don’t believe in. Ask for evidence. Scripture isn’t evidence.

On second thoughts that’s just being mean. It can be fun but why stoop to their level. They need to make a compelling case, you have no need to defend an atheist viewpoint unless you wish to.

“any analysis of the Bible without their accompanying books is useless”
Fine, but where are these books, who wrote them and where does their authority come from?

“any suffering on earth is Satan’s work, and God does not stop it because he “has given us a chance in the past and we ignored him so now we have to wait until armageddon before getting another chance.””
So God is punishing us for the sins of our ancestors. Is that any way for a moral being to behave?
And if hell doesn’t exist why is there a Satan?

If the Bible is an accurate historical record then why has it been revised and re-written dozens of times in the past two millenia? Why is the prevailing Catholic version the one they have decided is accurate enough for them to interpret? If Jesus isn’t the Son of God then why are his miracles and ascension and Mary’s virginity important to them or the Bible?

Basically just get to the core of what they believe and why they believe over any other belief system. At that point you will have the core of their irrationality and you can take your argument from there.

There’s no magic-bullet argument to “save” someone from their religion, especially from a high-control group like the Jehovah’s Witnesses. It takes significant exposure to well-respected authorities that contradict Jehovah’s Witnesses’ teachings. I blogged along my own path away from the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and although it seems from the blog that the whole thing happened in a short number of months, there were many years of research and wavering that came before the first post at Falterer.

The first real problem I had was with the physical impossibility of a peculiar teaching of Jehovah’s Witnesses’: a water or vapor canopy that surrounded the earth before the flood. (I blogged about it, too.) Quite a few other ex-Jehovah’s-Witnesses I’ve met had similar problems with the global flood. One person even shared online all the correspondence they had with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses’ main organization) concerning the flood. After that, I began to have more serious doubts about the age of the Earth and other questions in Genesis, until I began to doubt the existence of God entirely. After a talk with some elders in my congregation, I decided to stop researching Genesis and instead concentrate on a Bible prophecy: Daniel. There, I found more conflicts between what Jehovah’s Witnesses teach and, this time, history. (Again, I blogged my findings.)

Of course, once I became more confident in my atheism, I was disfellowshipped from the church for it!

Failed prophecies! The JW have made many over the years. Point those out to show that their organization doesn’t know what they’re talking about:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness8.htm

http://onetruegod.wordpress.com/2008/07/07/failed-prophecies-of-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovahs-witnesses/

Also, point out that like all religions, JW makes claims for which there is no evidence.

You could also ask them “Didn’t you guys say the world was going to end in 1975? What ever happened with that?” That was a bit of a fiasco for their group.

Tell them that you once caught a fish as big as Jehovah.

Otherwise morality arguments might be useful to cast seeds…Satan was created by God, etc.

Any attempt to dissuade them about the intentions of the Watchtower and their governing body will be viewed by any sophisticated JW as an apostate attempt to turn them from their faith. For me, It was the failed prophesies and former Jw’s experiences leaving the organization that helped me to leave the society. I had to be convinced that they only “love” you because you believe like they do! There was a huge fear at that time of being viewed by God and former friends as a casualty of the condemned world! A big fear of mine was leaving all the relationships that I had developed over the years. There is a strong familial pull on a person’s emotions. The barrier will be hard to break, but try your hardest to get them to read about the experiences of former JW’s and their struggles to get out! Looking at old copies of the Watchtower and Awake confirmed, for me anyway, the wild and irrational views of the organization over the years.

Take care, James

I was visited by a JW proselytizer once, and out of politeness and curiosity listened to what he had to say and took one of his pamphlets. After that, I (already pretty much atheist back then) opened my New Testament and read in the Gospels, comparing their message as I understood it with what the pamphlet claimed, and came to the conclusion that JWs have it completely backwards.

The Witnesses claim that to obtain God’s grace one has to follow his commandments absolutely. This is not what the NT Jesus says at all. The most notable verse for me in this regard is Matthew 12.7ff: “If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.” I take “sacrifice” to mean “adherence to commandments” in general, because it would not fit the context otherwise (he says that to justify his disciples’ breaking the Sabbath rule, which has nothing to do with sacrifices, but is a fairly high-ranking commandment in Judaism, being in the Decalogue and all.) So according to Jesus, human well-being should take precedence over divine commandments, not the other way around.

Only a few verses later he makes the same point even clearer: ‘He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”‘ Now, why should this statement only apply to the Sabbath rule and not to others as well? Seriously, if the NT Jesus knew that JWs are forbidden to receive life-saving blood transfusions just for the sake of some vague and obscure quote in Acts, I think he’d be rotating in his grave 😀

I understand very well why JWs try to protect their teachings by allowing only “Safer Bible Study” using their own commentaries, but maybe your family could still see the glaring discrepancies between the teachings and their supposed source.

The JWs at the door seem non-plussed by my declaration that their God is too small.

When they ask why, I tell them that their concept of the Universe is extremely limited and that any Creator wondrous enough to have put the whole thing together and get it working as well as it does, certainly wouldn’t be as petty and contradictory as the one portrayed in their Bible.
If there is a God or Supreme Being, and if s/he cares enough about the trivial details of their amazing Universe to interact with us, religious writings are so parochial (in the sense of being narrow-minded) they only serve to belittle and defame his/her character.

I have read your Bible (I tell them), and I would not want that angry, vindictive, sectarian, capricious sociopath in charge of my Universe.

I have Blood Donor stickers on my doors.
It repels JW’s.

According to my older brother (11 years older); when I was born I needed blood transfusions – yes plural; The JW’s came to the house. My dad chased them away with a shovel. My dad was a peaceful man; he avoided conflicts. This no blood transfusion policy/belief of theirs was like telling him to kill his son – me. I am happy about that meeting 🙂
– As an aside; I use the ‘;’ to much.

There’s really no way you can reason with them in just a few conversations. I’ve tried this with my family, who are all Seventh-Day Adventists, and all it does is generate hurt feelings.

The approach I’ve found that works best is wait for them to initiate the discussion, then calmly and rationally explain the way you feel. Avoid judgments and criticisms about their beliefs and instead focus on discussing why you believe the way you do.

It will take some time, if ever, for them to truly understand your position. These religions are based on very legalistic dogma, which has a brainwashing effect on followers. The longer they’ve been in the religion the longer it will take to get through to them.

My parents are in their 70’s. They’ve been in the SDA church all their lives and that’s all they know. To upset their belief system at this point is counterproductive, so I don’t even try. But I do engage my siblings in occasional discussions with positive results.

If you don’t succeed that’s fine. Family is still family, and not worth alienating. At least you made the correct decision and have the chance of influencing your children and grandchildren.

Why is everyone going on at length about fighting the details of the JW religion?

You only need one set of arguments against any religion. All religions are subject to precisely the same arguments, because all religions have precisely the same largest flaw: belief in a god. That is in itself so absurd and so discreditable that attacking other details is a waste of your time. It’s like swatting flies in your living room while ignoring the horse taking a dump on your sofa.

Learn some good arguments against belief in the existence of a god, and use those. It doesn’t matter if they believe in hell or not, believe in the divinity of Jesus or not, believe god forbids blood transfusions or not, believe the Harry Potter books are evil or not. They believe in a god, and that right there is the root of the problem. Go after that.

If you don’t know any good arguments against the existence of a god, or more importantly, arguments against their counter-arguments against your arguments against the existence of a god, then I suggest you go get a copy of The God Delusion and read it, it’s really quite thorough.

The Second Amendment?

The Jehova’s Witnesses that come around to my house are very difficult for me to talk to, because they so thoroughly lack an understanding of science or logic. They claim to have re-examined the Bible critically, but what they really mean is that they assume that The Watchtower organization has done that for them. Pointing out even easily demonstrated falsehoods or contradictions published by TW is taken as a personal assault on their faith. My effort to discuss the a-historicity of the early bible was met with the implication that all scientists and historians in the world were lying for Satan’s benefit. That is essentially the hurdle I was facing discussing with them: If reality and their beliefs conflict, they assume reality has been distorted by Satan.

While I’m sure not all JW’s are as distanced from reality as the ones that regularly knock on my door, they do all face some strong hurdles — such as extreme ostracism from family and friends (and given the cultish nature of the group, this may be the majority of a person’s close ties!) if they leave the fold — or even raise too many questions.

The closest I came to making a dent was when I pointed out that their own literature told them that taking things out of context (though they assume it will be biblical passages) to distort their meaning was wrong — and then pointed out several deceptive quote mines of scientists in their Watchtower pamphlets and books. After that it was six months before they came knocking again.

I don’t know how it is with family discussions, but when they knock on my door unsolicited they view their visits as entirely one-sided. Ask them for all the pamphlets you can carry, and they’re happy to oblige. Offer to give them a single photocopied article, and just try to get them to take it.

Lastly, if you do want to discuss their faith with them, take a bit of time to read up on their beliefs, and how they differ from the typical Christian set. Read some of their free Watchtower literature to get an idea of the things that they are likely to believe and the modes of thinking that lead them there. If I hadn’t done that I would have been at a complete loss to understand some of the responses I got to various questions and discussions.

I don’t care what faith someone is, all I have to do is keep asking, “but how do you know that?” (or some contextually appropriate variation thereof) over and over again, like a toddler. They eventually get to a point where they have no answer.

We seem to get JWs knocking on the door every couple of months or so. There are usually 4 of them, 2 pairs, going door to door. If I have the time I will engage them in conversation and run through various reasons for not believing in a God, asking them about failed prophesies and doctrinal changes.

I do not expect to deprogram them but I suspect that is why they come in pairs, so that they can ensure neither of them strays.

I can usually keep them going for 30-45 minutes before the other pair turns up and reminds them of an appointment they have to go to, but as far as I am concerned that is my job done. At least I might have prevented them from getting their claws into some of my more naive neighbours.

I also use a similar tactic with telephone cold callers. The longer I can keep them on the phone, the worse their sales figures will. Once I managed to string it out for an hour and 15 minutes with someone from an Indian call centre trying to flog me a mobile phone package. If enough people adopted this tactic then the cost of the wasted telephone call minutes would also build up.

With junk mail I remove any identifying name/address details and make use of the freepost envelopes some of them include. They have to pay for the postage and waste time opening it. The more people that do it, the more it costs them.

the 144,000 “survivors of the end times” is my favorite part.. they have (conservatively) 7.1 million members. So how do they choose? Talent show? Bake sale?

I know what you’re feeling. I too was brought up as a JW and I have many family members who still attend. I found that there is no point in trying to “save” them. They have been brainwashed. I don’t mean that in a negative way, I state that as a fact. I have been down that road of trying to show them the MANY errors of the WTBTS, but to no avail. I found the more I argued, the stronger their belief got. I came to the conclusion that you just have to let ppl be who they are. This is the path they have chosen for their lives, respect that. The best thing you can do is be happy that you found your way out and can now live a happy, guiltless life. When my family tries to “save” me, I listen, then decline their invite telling them that being a JW is not for me and if that means I have to die because I don’t follow their man-made rules, then so be it.

There are many publications written by ex-JW’s who have found their way out, and while most active JW’s won’t read them, you might find them helpful for your own peace of mind. One in particular is “Crisis of a Conscience” by Raymond Franz – a former member of the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Always be peaceful and peace will be with you.

It seems to me that these particular Jehovah’s Witnesses are a waste of time to argue with. They’re dead set in their delusions, and they’ll come up with any bullshit response to whatever logical arguments you throw at them. People like them will simply ignore whatever logic or evidence you use, and I’d say the best thing you can do is show them atheists like yourself are just as (if not more) moral and ethical as they are.

I’ve long entertained the (probable) illusion that there would be far fewer agnostics, or even atheists, if only Jehovah’s Witnesses occupied the religious camp. As observed in the post, many atheist arguments against the religious position are invalid with them. They don’t beleive the nonsensical ones and don’t practice the violent ones. It leaves mostly philosophical differences, with few practical consequences, and no violent ones. Easy to live and let live, under those circumstances. Frankly, the world would be an exceptionally peaceful place were everyone Jehovah’s Witnesses. That can’t be said of many groups. It can’t even be said of atheists.

the world would be an exceptionally peaceful place were everyone Jehovah’s Witnesses

Read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley.

tom sheep, are you lying or incorrect with this statement? “As observed in the post, many atheist arguments against the religious position are invalid with them. They don’t beleive the nonsensical ones and don’t practice the violent ones. ” You see, they do push Armageddon is near and have predicted the end of the world and new converts are lied to by different elders because it’s true and each elder has to lie. The JW’s do interpret Acts to mean no blood transfusions and some do not agree and may get one if their life depended on it. They do think 144k will rule the earth with jc and jehovah, which they KNOW, is a false translation over the rest of the JW’s when this world ends(their phrase). If we all were JW’s there would be no politics as they don’t vote and that would mean the whole world would be run by….the Watchtower and they are far too ignorant to run anything except a irrational cult.

The factors that make JWs often harder to deal with is because they want to be considered both a Christian faith and at the same time rise above it by not believing in a fiery hell or some irrational non-Biblical concept of the Trinity doctrine.

I used to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses for over twenty years. Seven years ago I left the organization. I sent out personal letters to all of my friends and relatives telling them that I am in effect just basically changing political party affiliations, as it were, and not leaving politics. The point of the analogy was to convince them that I valued their love and friendship, as I would hope they value mine, and we could somehow stay connected. I knew this was a tall order to ask for because their cornerstone doctrine clearly states that those who leave their faith are to be viewed as someone who is worse than dead, and not to be dealt with at all. It’s called shunning, and it applies to those who leave on their own volition or are kicked out for reasons fair or not.

I’ve used so many reasoning points to talk to my former friends and relatives still in the church (they hate that term and prefer to use the term “The Truth” or “the organization”). I’ve told them countless times that I really did not leave their faith because of major doctrinal issues. On the contrary I enjoyed believing in what I considered to be a clarified, loving form of Christianity that precluded an unjust God who would punish people forever in a fiery hell though that person only sinned for at most several decades. I took great comfort in the fact that ours was a sincere form of worship that was doctrinally consistent in any part of the world, across millions of adherents, in over 200 countries. I served for several years at their world headquarters in NYC printing Bibles and Bible-based books and magazines for worldwide distribution. Even today I honestly have few regrets about my life as a Jehovah’s Witness, because I felt I was sincere and a force for good. So if I felt that way, why would I want anyone telling me, rationally or otherwise, that what I believe is wrong and I should change my life to accomodate a different path and/or set of beliefs and values? I hope you see my point.

One of the great illustrations that I learned as a JW involved a glass of fresh, pure, refreshing drinking water that had one drop of a virtually undetectable poison in it. It was enough to kill you if you took a sip, though you could never tell by just looking at the glass or even drinking out of it until it was too late. They used this to illustrate other religions, ironically. Their thinking was that what most religions taught was 99.99% good. It was the 0.01% that would kill you. Yes, you should believe in and love God, be good to your neighbor, spread the good news found in the Bible, yatta yatta. But that 0.01%, well that would do you in. And what was worse, you wouldn’t know about it until it was too late.

JWs like to use, and fairly so, a scripture found at Matthew 7:16 where Jesus tells his disciples that “by their fruits you will know them” when discussing how to identify true believers. This is, on paper, an excellent way to differentiate those who believe what is positive and wholesome from those that don’t and yet may think they do. Just look at their works, their behaviors, their life output, and you will know right away if they are on the right path or not.

I could spend a few thousand more words delineating all of the beliefs of JWs that are not just fallacious and irrational but often downright dangerous and potentially deadly. Take a look at the most recent objective studies done on religions around the world from respected folks like the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life. They just released their latest findings a few days ago, and Jehovah’s Witnesses did not come out looking too good at having only a 37% retention rate compared to other fundamentalist evangelical religions. Other studies around the world have shown that the divorce rates among JWs are in fact the same or even slightly higher than other religions and the general population, despite claims to the contrary. The rates of suicide and depression are significantly higher. On this note, I knew personally of literally dozens of folks who took their own lives out of feeling locked into a system of belief and even outright hostility. Some were gay, some had differing views on doctrinal or life./social matters, but all of them had one thing in common: they valued too highly the price of membership. They knew that if they expressed their opinions on how they really felt, they would be necessarily excluded and possibly kicked out of the organization, along with having a “living death” of being shunned by their own family and friends who were still in the organization. To be honest, I did the same when others left the faith when I was an active Jehovah’s Witness. I did this because I was taught that if I even so much as spoke a word to them, this would open up the possibility of being poisoned by their unholy mind and thinking. And secondly, it was an act of tough love. It did not mean I did not love them, but in fact I loved them more because this would let them know what they are missing out on and would in fact motivate them to return back to God’s people. In reality, however, they often killed themselves, fell even deeper into depression and despair, and often succumbed to horrible addictions such as alcohol, drugs, unhealthy sex, etc. to numb their deep pain. I know, I did the same. Matthew 7:16 – “By their fruits you will know them”. Well, this represents a lot more than just one drop of poison in a refreshing glass of water. Perhaps it is time for them to turn this lens inward.

The bottom line here is that by attempting to talk to them about doctrinal matters or other matters including some of the topics I discussed earlier, it only serves to even further catalyze them in their faith and make you look foolish for even bringing up a dissenting (albeit healthier) opinion. Live a life of rational thinking, compassionate action, and mutually-beneficial relationships. Be well, be healthy, and be associated with those who value debate, intellectual rigor, and at the same time do so not because they feel they are necessarily better than others, but because they are better than the person they once were or could easily become.

You ask “what can I do to counter these people”? Ask a better and more realistic question, such as “what can I do to continue living a good life without judgment of others”? I know it is hard that these folks are your family. But you’re in a good positon in that you were never in the church to begin with so they are not Biblically-obligated to shun you or turn you away. Win them over by kindness and compassion, and don’t bring up what are “incendiary” topics that will only have them seeing red. Once they start seeing red, all reason goes out the window. This applies to anyone, be they JWs or not. Life a good life, just as they are doing what they firmly believe in their hearts is also the best for them. It’s not for you, but it is for them. Perhaps they will not always feel that way, but that is not for you to decide or impose upon them, because then you are really no better than they are. But there is no reason to come across as being any better, smarter, or more enlightened somehow than they are because in their minds you are only being as good as what they believe in what is written in Proverbs 26:11, that you are “a fool who wallows in his own stupidity, just as a dog that has returned to lick up its own vomit”.

The reason I ended up leaving the church was because I felt claustrophobic in my circles of association. I was a professional, and yet could not have clients or colleagues to my home on a regular basis for close association since that was to be had only with other church members. Sure it was fine to knock on anyone’s door and cold-call on them into a guilt trip about what will happen to their lives, present and everlasting, if they don’t listen to my Bible-based message about salvation and happiness. It was fine to turn my back on others who leave the church, because being that way only protects myself from these dangerous dissidents while at the same time sending them a clear message that if they want to hang out with me, they better come back to my faith. I got tired of having to explain to others outside my church why I could not do more things with them, or not entertain with them certain opinions or viewpoints because doing so would only jeopardize my standing and relationship with Ultimate Spaceman. It was a very exclusionist way of living, not unlike what M. Night Shyamalan was trying to get across in his 2004 movie “The Village”. I yearned to look beyond the walls of my confined life, and felt there was more. More opportunities, more and different ways of thinking, more friends to be happy with and grow together with. I was right. The world, LITERALLY, opened up to me after my disassociation from my former church. However it came at a very high price initially because it in part cost me my marriage to my first wife who was a fourth-generation JW herself, my social and even financial relationship with other members of the church, and the cold-hearted reality that I was suddenly enduring a living death. So after I left the church, I moved away from the area to start fresh. The pain was still fresh and strong, and I slowly descended into the very pits of despair, and succumbed to alcohol and drug abuse. I later learned that this is extremely common among those who do leave a group as insular and controlling as the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I’ve since found help, and along the way have met an amazing woman who is now my second and hopefully final wife. I have the life I’ve always wanted and thought I could have, and my journey has only begun. I’ve dived into secular humanism, Buddhism, and a healthy and balanced lifestyle. I am happier. And along the way, I’ve discovered intrinsically that I no longer need to hold on to the belief of being made perfect, of living in a paradise earth with panda bears and lions in harmony, etc. I’ve learned some valuable things, not the least of which is that panda bears are in fact still bears, and quite potentially dangerous. Just a thought. 🙂

By the way JWs do NOT believe in any form of evolution. They also do not believe in Creationism or Intelligent Design either. They acknowledge scientific data that the earth (“creation” as it were) is far older than 6,000 years, but still firmly hold on to their teleological lynchpin that complex creation mandates a complex and intelligent creator. Since leaving the church I now consider myself an ignostic humanist after doing some further research, but this again illustrates how JWs are so mainstream and yet so different in other ways. I’ve always said that if Christianity is a valid system of belief, then the JWs do it right out of all the other factions and groups that I’ve studied or come across.

You need not concern yourself with what the JWs think, even as they don’t necessarily concern themselves unduly or even care what you think so long as they have the opportunity to proselytize to you. They come with the best of intentions, and for the most part are sincere, kind folks. You be the same. Some day your example of a happy, integrated, healthy life may be just the spark that is needed to start a forest fire of cathartic change to help them understand that they need not live a fear-based existence, and in fact that if there is indeed a God, why should we not assume that he would not want us to be happy and play well with others?

Best wishes to you, my friend.

I would suggest that anyone who wishes to “argue” any points of contention with a Jehovah’s Witness that they keep them out of their books while doing it. The JW will mainly parrot what they “study” from their own publications. Those publications also are a guide as to how each JW should respond to almost every possible rejection at the door. Nine times out of ten, they are more likely armed and prepared to deal with you more than you are prepared to deal with them. Try approaching them with non-biblical discussion which is somewhat a back-door way of making them realize the error of their ways. It is not easy to do but it can be done. Good luck.

until we get rid of all religions mankind will suffer and be ignorant. I turned against my own mother because of her religious rantings. I am better off without her. The world will be better off without religion, religion is proof of our ignorance. No suicide bomber has even killed people in the name of atheism.

“Why did God make me an Atheist?”

Ill hold my breath. JW’s tried and failed to predict the tribulation (false prophets) several times.  They are fervent believers with good values so it is hard to criticize them, but they do shut them off from the outside world too much. And I don’t get the whole blood transfusion thing. Successful transfusions didn’t even exist until the 19th century, why would the Bible be against future medical advancements? (I think the passage they refer to should be interpreted as: “don’t drink other people’s blood)

Borderline illiterate troll is obvious?

My belief,… I believe in myself, god doesn’t judge (jehovahs do!)  taking care of what I love, one thing I do believe is there is a higher spirit, something we can rely on. But I was never a hostile person on behalf of the JW until my husband became one 3 years ago, huge controversy now.  How does one cope with that, how can you just shut everything you had out of your life because jehovah says so??? this is such a slap in the face, it makes me feel as thou I am against the bible, and I sin because I swear or have  a tattoo. What kind of selfish religion is this if my son or I do not follow jehovah we just die in our grave with no soul, where he lives on..how selfish of a man is that. I will not become JW it’s not in me to study that type of belief if any it would be just attending a Anglicain church for some good old fashion bible reading. If he has been in it for 3 years am I a lost cause in this situation? will he ever stay with me and continue living in the now? 

Michelle, you are absolutely not over-reacting.  Jehovah’s Witnesses will pull your son in, block his critical thinking, encourage him to drop his non-JW friends and family, and get him to start thinking of THEM as his family.  The worst part is, these people are acting out of genuine intentions so it’s difficult to see what’s really happening.  You have to get your son to remember that, like anything else, the less-than-glowing reviews should be considered as well.  He would be foolish to buy an expensive product due to the salesperson’s recommendation alone.  Get the other part of the story.  Do research OUTSIDE of the publications that come from those who have a vested interest in that particular faith.  Unfortunately, he’s already been instructed to shield himself from negative views of JWs so it will be difficult to reach him.

I was born and raised as one, believed it and was completely devoted for the first 26 or so years of my life, before I came across a single discrepancy that set me on a trail of questions and doubt.  The JW faith is NOT benign.  Devout JW’s must put their “relationship with God”  (ie, the “organization”) above that of non-believing family.  What Mencken said about religion applies 10-fold to Jehovah’s Witnesses:  “I believe that religion, generally speaking, has been a curse to mankind — that its modest and greatly overestimated services on the ethical side have been more than overcome by the damage it has done to clear and honest thinking.”

It’s a major psychological challenge to help the JW mind see the issues that plague their thinking.  Defenses go up at the first sign of attack.  In fact, an attack on their faith only makes it stronger, by design.  The assumption is that Satan is trying to undermine their faith.  Logic and reason are rendered nearly useless.

My suggestion would be to avoid a direct confrontation.  FIRST get his critical thinking faculties working… if he can agree that the traits are absolutely critical to clear thinking, perhaps that will lay the groundwork to help him see the JW organization for what it really is.
(http://www.criticalthinking.org/pages/valuable-intellectual-traits/528)   After all, in a high control group like this, members rarely are awakened by someone else.  In many cases, they have to discover issues on their own.

Best regards and I hope you’re able to strengthen your relationship with your son.

Sorry but you sound like the typical uneducated idiot they love.  I was told as a child to not attend college and instead become a full time door to door minister…while I stood and watched girls as young as 15 get married to men who had no means to take care of them.  These young kids started popping out babies right and left all the while living in their parents basements…I was sickened by this and left.  No way was I gonna give up any chance at making a living and taking care of my family that I wanted some day to be some uneducated moron going door to door…I left and I am glad I did.  The men controlled their wives and treated them bad…they beat their kids myself included…I hated growing up and now that I am 41 I am glad I am no longer a member of that cult.  What is sad is my mother is.  And has disowned me and my brother and my 3 kids…her own children and grandchildren.  What a shame she has missed out on our lives.  Just because we are not Jehovah’s Witnesses…such a crying shame.  But so typical.

My mother has refused to speak to me for almost two years now.  She has tried to convert me since I left at 18.  She has tried to convert my children which I won’t allow…When she begins her bullshit about how she is sad I will die if I don’t except Jehovah again I just listen and make some excuse to get off the phone or hang up on her or tell her mom I am done so your wasting your time. I am being truthful and honest in saying this.  If you grew up as one of them and then you decide to leave and go out into the world you will find the world a confusing and fright filled place…where you have no skills or education etc…many kids around age 16 were told to leave school I refused thank God!  I refused to get baptized like my brother did…I held out and left at 18.  I simply knew this was not for me.  I watched young children being married off at 15.  Small kids being beat for picking up a rock in field service…they were not even allowed to be children…they had to sit through two hour boring meetings and when they cried they were taken to the restroom where they were beat…And I mean beat mothers carried wooden spoons and paddles and one mother and I kid not brought in a plastic baseball bat and hit her kid with it…I told on her and was given a talk by the elders on how I should mind my own business.  Women had no rights and could not speak at all…we were slaves to the men who constantly told  me how to dress and what makeup and jewelry to wear.  And who to marry…ugh I did not want to marry a Witness boy and refused any  boys advances…I still resent my mother for raising me this way… she raised us in this faith with our father who was not a witness and she allowed him to beat us with belts and race car tracks and other items…she never did crap when my brother molested me except read us both the bible…she allowed the abuse and still today sits at her church putting on her fake act…she makes me sick.

Hi

Having been a witness since birth until I grew up and found my life. Being given no real opportunity to grow up and mature to make a real decision based on living my own life. Forced into baptism and basically losing most of my beautiful family because of my later choices! Having gone through a bad marriage from 19 and divorced at 22. Also seeing elders be reprimanded for sexual indiscretions both with minors and other women whom were weak without it being taken outside the faith to authorities even when rape occurred.

Seeing others repent without ever really meaning it! I have massive issues with this sect?

I’m a good man with a beautiful wife and 2 fantastic children whom are being raised as morally good humans.

I know that JW keep changing their beliefs when it suits them. Also every congregation deals with things differently and applies their belief as they feel fit (which should not be).

Yes for those whom wish to know the 144,000 were meant to be of an age to understand prior to the first world war. You will find these are all dead now and the world was meant to end with these as they would be the guardians in heaven for those whom lived on earth.

As this prediction has passed they again like always have changed the reading of the scripts to suit the doctrine.

A sect and no question!

I know this is an old discussion, and maybe none will read my comment, but I just want to vent my anger. I am a Mapuche, and those JW are trying to learn my ancient language to preach to my people, and change their minds, convert them to their beliefs. I am not sure by now what to do, that’s the reason I was looking for some tips in the internet. I’ll find a way to stop that, I hope.