Qur’an-Approved: Saudi Pedophiles Buy Syrian Refugee Girls For Sex, Some As Young As 13 December 21, 2013

Qur’an-Approved: Saudi Pedophiles Buy Syrian Refugee Girls For Sex, Some As Young As 13

Watch and shudder:

What these men do — buying underage girls for sex — is neither prostitution nor in any way illegal under the Shiite interpretation of Islam. It’s a religious practice called nikah mut’ah, a convenience marriage that can last anywhere from minutes to months, with a divorce included in the agreement. Money changes hands — perhaps a few thousand dollars — and the rich buyer goes off (and gets off) with his newly-acquired sex slave, until he tires of her.

Then the girl is returned to her family, and may be sold — I mean, “married” — again.

Nikah mut’ah is frequently a religious cover for sex tourism, as it is in the German video report (above) from the Jordanian desert. The men flock to where poverty and desperation are greatest, and a teenage sex slave can be had for cheap. For instance:

[S]cores of rich Muslim tourists visit Southern India for a few weeks of nookie by “marrying” local girls whose families are mired in poverty. After the sex vacation, they divorce the girls and fly home to their families, no questions asked.

Temporary Islamic sex marriages — between adults — are gaining acceptance among Western Muslims, too. More here and here.

"You made W. C. Fields cry, he stated "It's morally wrong to allow a sucker ..."

Skeptics Set a Trap and a ..."
"Go grind your silly axe on someone else's skull, because I never said it wasn't."

Rick Wiles: Trump is Decriminalizing Homosexuality ..."

Browse Our Archives

What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Achron Timeless

    I’m looking forward to the fundy xtian response to this sanctity of marriage implementation. Will they freak out? Will they try to work it into our laws too?

    -grabs popcorn and waits-

  • kielc

    Just had a discussion about this with someone. Just because something is “tradition,” doesn’t make it right. In fact, many “traditions” need to be abandoned as times–and understanding–change.

  • Peter Naus

    Aren’t men clever when it comes to justifying abuse of power and the horrific corruption that is organised religion?

    Makes you wonder what could be achieved if we spent as much intellectual effort to eradicate world poverty, doesn’t it? Imagine if the Koch brothers put their vast intellects – and even vaster infrastructure – towards reducing poverty in the USA?

    But no. They have their own desires to fulfil. As do christian and muslim paedophiles.

  • purr

    This makes me think of all the efforts that some Jewish people go to in order to ‘obey’ the Sabbath but still do everything they want to do.

    Like, elevators on automatic, and other associated things, that will help you to enjoy all of the pleasures that you should *not* be enjoying,

    And if you really think about it, is God so stupid that ze isn’t going to be wise to the fact that you are inventing sneaky ways to get around breaking zis laws while not technically breaking zis laws?

    *This also applies to Ramadan and any other religious tradition that people will seek to find ways to break the rules without getting caught.

  • LesterBallard

    I have no way to express my anger, except for those that would put me in prison.

  • LesterBallard

    Lots of practice. Like most of human history.

  • islamic marriage “law” has been used in a lot of ways. like this one. i’ve also read about another example, in which islamic teens have “marriage licenses” that they use in order to date and act like teens (have sex) and present “proof of sanctity” to morality police when they are caught together.

    the whole matter is absurd, of course. neither church nor mosque nor government should be telling people how to have sex, so long as they are consenting adults. at the same time, this sort of prostitution is abhorrent. while i’m willing to have a conversation about “what the right age for willing sex is” i’m totally unwilling to say that young girls should be sold into sex slavery for the benefit of rich old men.

    personally, i’m of the opinion that “adult consenting sex” can begin at about 15. feel free to disagree and tell me why. but for most of history, sex was assumed to be legit starting at 12, or earlier. our modern sensibilities recoil against that today. for good reason. at the same time, it’s mostly religious hypocrisy that makes this question as complicated as it is. teens having sex of their own choosing is Bad! when family property or money is involved, of course.

    i know i’ll get downvoted for this comment, but i just don’t want people to ignore the complexity of the question. young people’s rights, vs feminist critique, vs religious BS relating to sex and “marriage,” etc.

    it’s not a simple issue. of course, rich old men selling and raping fair skinned children in camps is always wrong. i’m sure we can all agree on that.

    i’d be interested in seeing a report on the trade in young boys. don’t even tell me there isn’t one, in these camps.

  • Finance guy

    I am a born again Christain and under no circumstances, would my faith ever condone such activity. It makes me angry and sad to see such atrocities happen under any pretense, but especially I’m the name if following God. I hate the fact that a fringe kook few taint the image of the majority.

  • give me a break, honey. there are just as many,if not more, example of “born again christians” raping kids and keeping brothel like situations, right here in the good ole US of A. google is your friend. or, you can review this blog, and a host of others for examples of kiddie raping christians. hell, i bet you don’t even have to scroll down this blog very far to find one, of dozens, just in this month alone.

    religion protects and excuses pedophiles. most pedophiles know this. it’s why so many of them are “youth pastors” or “marriage brokers” or whatever.

  • Abhoth Unclean

    This is not really about religion you know, it is about power. Religion has always been used to mask abuses and abusers – and I do mean always. Look at Obama, church on Sunday, drones on Monday. This is slightly less about personal agrandisment but just as abusive – ask some of the victims. Here in Australia our leaders piously bend their knees whilst authorising mass abuse (see the conditions of and laws regarding the indigenous and refugees). The Koch brothers in the U.S., Gina Reinhart in Australia and the wealthy all over the world could make this abused a thing of the past but they wont. Psychopaths only care about themselves.

  • defPlayer

    Another instance of why morality means very little – it is a relative idea particular to an individual or group. There are so few ideas that we can all agree as being moral or not

  • defPlayer

    Venus Project

  • Ali Mohammed

    Saudis are not Shia (except the little underprivileged minority in the eastern part that is barely surviving) nor they respect or fallow any Shia interpretation of Islam, Saudis are Wahabi Muslims. Whabi interpretation is actually way worse than the Shia one when it comes to underage sex. The kingdom of Darkens “Saudi” lives in the dark ages and they are exporting their ideology and backwardness to the whole world. This shit need to stop once and for all and we should all speak up against the so called Western ally the Kingdom of Darkness!

  • Ibis3
  • purr

    I recently learned of the Wahabi Muslims. Basically they are the violent, fanatical fringe which has gained prominence and power throughout history due to luck and oil.

  • Svelaz

    I don’t know about the minimum that “adult consenting sex” should be, but this day and age 15 is barely tolerable in some parts of the country. How about this perspective. Considering that it has been determined within reasonable certainty that the mother of Jesus was 16 years old when she was pregnant. Nobody really talks about that aspect regarding Mary OR Joseph. It is however very plausible that they were very young. I don’t think that it was uncommon for girls to marry at 12 in those days. Since the average lifespan of a man in those times would not be as long as it is today it would have made sense back then. Today the reasons for marrying a girl that young are no longer needed nor they are acceptable. We now know that the required maturity for a relationship today is far higher than it was back then. What goes on with these types of marriages in the Islamic world is nothing more than the exploitation of a loophole in order to do what unbelievers do without having to deal with dire consequences that come with the religion. Every religion has it’s loopholes for a reason. To follow all the rules in one religion to the letter is impossible. Look at the orthodox Jews and their myriad of contraptions in order to bend the rules just enough to consider an action not being work during the sabath. What is obvious with these marriages however is that it is simply a runaround the rules in order to get what one wants and still be “pure” to the faith so to speak.

  • purr

    Every religion has it’s loopholes for a reason.

    Which is ridiculous because surely god knows what you’re up to, and that you are just being clever by using these loopholes to do what you’re not supposed to do1!!

  • Svelaz

    Every religion deals in absolutes. The loopholes are there to allow for the flexibility to be……human. The absolutes are about control and nothing else. Those who demand strict adherence to these absolutes exploit these loopholes for themselves as a tacit acknowledgement of the very impossibility of strictly adhering to their chosen faith. In other words it’s a cop-out to their own faith.

  • momtarkle

    Looks like you “get it”.

  • Without Malice

    Someone tell me again how we can have no morality without religion. Of course, the Virgin Mary has traditionally been thought of as being between 13 and 14 when she gave birth to Jesus, that being about the norm in those good ol days.

  • momtarkle

    “Aren’t MEN clever”? Please don’t make this a male only issue. The “Pimpress” in the clip is female. It seems to be mostly mothers, under unimaginable duress, that sell their daughters. This is a sin against humanity, but not by just male perpetrators.

  • $925105

    A perfect example of religion merged with capitalism, exploiting the poor for “moral” sex with minors.

  • kickinitincrik

    What is the Biblical doctrinal injunction to be a pedophile? Pedophilia was pretty popular before Christianity (ever study ancient Greek writings? I have) and it’s kind of a cross-cultural thing when you look around the world. Your argument is tantamount to me blaming homosexuality on pedophilia in the Catholic Church since most of the victims are male and their abusers are obviously male. Should I build an argument upon that premise? I won’t because it’s poor argumentation and I’m not going to go down that hateful road. You see your problem? Your hate religion and because your arguments arrive from a emotionally based foundation of hate they become illogical. Google by the way is anyone’s friend. You can find something on Google to back up any idiotic argument.

  • Whitney Currie

    Classy.

    So, if I’m understanding properly here, it’s more or less prostitution that’s being called a “pleasure marriage”. I’ve always been under the impression that when money was paid for sex, that was called prostitution. Pretty it up however you like with other terms, but it’s still prostitution, no matter who approves of it.

    Oh, and does anyone know the infection rate for STDs in relation to this? I’m not even sure where to start looking for them. They’ve got to be sky high for something like this.

  • Clooney’s wifeyy ;)

    It says Shiite idiot which is about 10% of Muslims therefore, you cannot judge nearly 2.5 billion because of 0.25% . These Shiite Muslims are extremely hated by the majority of Muslims and are not even considered Muslims. Go search Islam on Google and you’ll find out that it was never mentioned nor approved by the Quran that it’s OK or normal. You illiterate retard. Think before you speak, and by the way this website is a TROLL.

  • teddifish

    Extreme fundamentalist religions–regardless of faction–are a blight on humanity.

  • This is not really about religion you know

    And yet I can’t think of a single valid secular reason which would allow for the prostitution of children. Consenting adults sure, but children? Nope, can’t think of any.

    However, as evidenced by this story, there are clearly some religiously approved reasons for allowing children to be raped and prostituted like this. So to say that this isn’t about religion when it so obviously is takes some real cognitive dissonance on your part.

  • Spuddie

    Its just that modern christians like to make excuses for pedophiles
    in a way everyone else remotely rational finds vile and ridiculous.

    The penalty for rape in the Bible is simply to pay the parent and marry the rapee. Not very strong punishment. Children and women are considered chattel in the Bible. Sex with them doesn’t require consent according to it. That attitude nowadays is license for rape.

    Pedophilia is unfortunately common to all religious groups where authority is unquestioned and people consider clergy to be people above all reproach on penalty of social sanction. It puts people in a position of trust which is unearned and allows a community to protect the abuser.

    There is nothing hateful about pointing out to you what is obvious to anyone bothering to look at the situation objectively.

  • Rachel

    Kickinitincrick, but that was thousands of years ago. The ancient Greeks had a crap monetary system. People realized this, and changed the way they did things. The Greeks were wrong about pedophilia and people realized it, so they made raping a child illegal. The trend may go back to a time before Christianity, but some massive percentage of the countries have laws against having sex with children in the year 2013. And while the majority of religious leaders and youth pastors are NOT pedophiles, a vast majority of pedophiles have a job or pastime that gives them a position of power over children.

  • Abhoth Unclean

    Rob, this is nothing to do with validity (as though there was some universal accepted standard or definition!) it is to do with perceptions, with veils or cassocks to hide behind. As I have said these men, and it is always men, are finding religious reasons to justify their actions but their actions concern power – the power to gratify their psychopathic sexual desires and then to cast human beings behind them as though they were used toilet paper.

  • Cloe

    Women have the power to change the world. The suffrage movement didn’t kick off until women burned down a couple of the politician’s homes in England. Men perhaps became a bit paranoid that the one sleeping next to them, could be their detriment. I honestly feel that Malcolm X had more to do with the equality of the African American than King. Come on women of Islam…rise up and kick ass!

  • Terry Firma

    What do the Koch brothers have to do with Muslim childfuckers?

    Holy cow. Apparently, no crime is so outrageous that, to the American left, it doesn’t deserve a gratuitous comparison — and not necessarily a favorable one — to the actions of a couple of right-wing billionaires.

    Way to fumble the point.

  • purr

    Uh huh

  • LovingJesus

    I’m not exactly sure what modern Christians make excuses for pedophiles. No Christians I know make excuses for them and I am constantly surrounded by Christians. I will admit it has been in the church just as much as it is in the schools and in people’s homes. If you want to know the truth, there are very few women I know (I’m not talking just about Christians here, but school friends mostly) that haven’t been sexually abused in some way by their own fathers or people in their family, neighbors or friends of the family. To my knowledge it has never been “excused” except for people who are trying to keep it hidden because they know it would cause this pedophile to be put in prison. Apparently, the only so called pedophiles are the ones that actually get caught or told on. There are billions out there walking around thinking nothing of what they’ve done to their daughter or niece or neighbor. It isn’t a Christian issue. It isn’t even a religious issue. It is a sin issue. And as Christian or Muslim as you might like to hold more accountable as anyone else, we all still struggle with sin. And YES, it is a sin. It is called fornication. If you’d like to see it spelled out for you, go to this website and you will see why pedophilia is a sin and is condemned in the Bible. http://www.gotquestions.org/pedophilia.html

  • Robster

    Ay least the muzzies in the story are paying for child sex and appear to be quite open about it, those catholic priests and there seems to be many, that kiddie fiddle are quietly tucked away under a silly hat and nicely coloured cape somewhere and are left to hunt down more happy kiddies for their own perverse pleasure. Belief in god/jesus/mo etc. makes people forget morality and the difference between right and wrong.

  • Terry Firma

    The sick people who rip little girls from their families, only to fuck and discard them, justify their actions with references to the Qur’an and the Hadith. So take it up with them.

  • You All Think It

    Savages…..

  • Sweetredtele

    Yay! No True Scotsman!

  • Neither is there anything in Judaic or Christian law that condems such practices. Indeed, they are rather easily supported (and observed in some minority Jewish and Christian communities).

    The problem here isn’t particularly Islam, which is no more corrupt than other Abrahamic religions. The problem is that Islam so often operates in nonsecular societies that allow its most savage aspects to be legally practiced.

  • diogeneslamp0

    Yeah! Never compare child rapists to the Koch brothers. It’s totally unfair to child rapists.

  • Terry Firma

    Oh. Witty.

  • I think Wotan just finds it all very funny!

  • Unimpresed

    ” Considering that it has been determined within reasonable certainty that the mother of Jesus was 16 years old when she was pregnant. Nobody really talks about that aspect regarding Mary OR Joseph”

    You’re an idiot.

  • ThePrussian

    I sometimes wonder if there is any abomination that Islam doesn’t sanction.

  • ThePrussian

    Story of unmentionable crime committed by Islam – immediate defense by US lefties.

    Go figure.

  • ThePrussian

    Er – name the Christian country that regards sex with children as a ok. Name me the Christian religious organization that openly defends this.

    Hello?

    There is a difference between disgraceful crime and accepted practice. But, hey, don’t let me stop you trying to avoid having to think about Islam.

  • Stev84

    And like clockwork, you show that you are part of the problem.

    Your sick so-called “morality” that equates consensual sex with non-consensual sex and throws both of them into the “sin” box is exactly the root of the problem here.

  • Stev84

    There was also a story about a girl being raped a pastor who was forced to apologize in front of the whole church for accusing him.

  • Stev84

    And Shiites and Sunnis killing each other like it happens so often makes it all better.

  • quasibaka

    Ok , I’m from South India and am flabbergasted ! WTF seriously ?
    I used to think this sort of religious crazy was confined to muslim theocracies .
    I never read anything about this in the newspapers(maybe it was minor) .

    Religion is ‘Respected’ by liberals and humanists here . A single girl was gang-raped in the capital city got nationwide protests and rallies but such archaic practices and caste miscegenation get occasional news mentions.

  • Good to see you can articulate an argument without a string of ad hominems to support it. Classy.

  • Cdat88

    So using your logic (and math), it is okay because only 625,000,000 people are participating in this horrific act? Who is the troll now? You are a perfect example of what is wrong with political correctness. Using numbers to try to shoo away criticism, and ignoring the issue out of a desire to defend the group or subgroup. Failing that, you employ the “No true Scotsman” argument, as pointed out by Sweetredtele. Did you even read the article? These are little girls being used then tossed aside.We all should be outraged. But all you can do is try and defend one particular group… Go away. It is too early to deal with idiocy of this magnitude..

  • Pattrsn

    Bacon sandwiches

  • kickinitincrik

    The Greeks never changed. The Romans inherited their perversion. Nero married a castrated boy. Seems that these things went into history’s sewer with the worldview change of Christianity. Now people like Dawkins will pick it up by accepting ‘mild pedophilia,” google that term along with Dawkins.

  • Pattrsn

    Do you have a link to the “defense by US lefties”?

  • Peter Naus

    My point related to the authorship of the qur’an and haditha, not the people in the story. That was the main point I saw in the article.

  • Rachel

    People like Dawkins are not in charge of the law in this country. They are a fringe minority. Many (perhaps not the majority of the Earth’s population but the number is quite big) of the people on this planet will agree that all forms of child molestation and pedophilia are wrong. And when I said people realized the Greeks were wrong about sex with children, I meant that in the several thousands of years between the time period the Greeks and Romans lived in and this year. I don;t know where you live, but here in Chicago, even “mild pedophilia” will get you sent to jail and will get you put on the sex offender list for LIFE.

  • Peter Naus

    Wow. I wasn’t even TRYING to relate the Koch politics with Mohammed’s efforts to legitimise child rape, but I obviously wasn’t trying hard enough to link the poiverty angle.

    And I’m neither American nor left-wing, but thanks for the promotion!

  • Graham Martin-Royle

    The majority of Saudis are Sunni muslims yet this article opens by saying this is a shi-ite practise. I’m confused.

  • Peter Naus

    The latest attempt was by a Polish archbishop, saying basically the kids trapped the paedophile priest.

    This “but they were asking for it” defense has appeared a number of times, both from mainstream and fundamentalist paedophiles and their, er, “supporters”.

    And just fyi, paedophilia isn’t mentioned anywhere in the bible.

  • Peter Naus

    Whoops – you mistyped. You meant to say ALL religions, amiright?

  • Spuddie

    We have examples from those good Christian folk in Colombia, Sierra Leone, Congo, Guatemala, and any other country where children are regularly and systematically conscripted and/or used as chattel property and concubines of military forces.

  • Peter Naus

    Think ‘wasabi’.

    Pretty nasty bunch, generally speaking. Lots of “bring back the good ol’ days” speeches, except they’ll be specifically blessed in public by their imams for trying to actually revert to bronze-age politics and morals.

    Yemen’s another country that’s less lucky, resource-wise, than the Saudis, but they more than make up for it in backwardsness.

  • Spuddie

    Your ignorance is duly noted and plainly obvious to anyone paying attention and not making the kind of knee jerk excuses I was just talking about.

    Your equating of rape with consensual relations is exactly the kind if pernicious stupidity which makes it easy for sexual predators to operate in an ultra religious atmosphere. Thank you for illustrating how much you are part of the problem.

  • Pattrsn

    Of cours it’s a different category but you can’t get much more evil at this point than funding and lobbying for the climate change denial industry.

  • Spuddie

    Nope, full of shit. Nobody is defending it. Are you always such a liar or is this a special occasion?

  • Quincy

    lmaaaaooooooooooooooooo dead…

  • Spuddie

    Because the born again pedophiles usually find Jesus after incarceration and are under strict parole terms and sex offender registry. After that they get welcomed into a community happy to look the other way and deny things like your own.

  • Spuddie

    Of course you have no idea what Dawkins meant in that statement and just completely distort what he said. Dummy.

    Dawkins referred to his own childhood molestation and made a silly claim that it did not overly traumatize him. Collective groans were made by everyone reading it. Proof that intelligent people still say silly things. Famous atheists are no exception.

  • ThePrussian

    Balls. If this was about the Catholic Church’s child raping and the comment threads filled up with stories about, e.g., the Hare Krishnas, that would rightly be judged an attempt to change the subject and a defense. Same thing here. .

  • ThePrussian

    I know about those; in fact, I suspect I know rather more about those than you do. But here’s the thing: those are robber gangs operating in lawless conditions.

    The child rape in the Islamic world is done in supposedly peacetime, to their own people, with the full sanction of the Ummah’s highest religious authorities.

    Not quite the same thing.

  • ThePrussian
  • momtarkle

    Thanks for clarifying. I assumed that you were taking part in the ever increasing War on Men.

  • Hittman

    The Koch Brothers is rapidly replacing The Race Card as the cliche accusation of choice among non-thinking lefties.

    You claim you’re not a lefty – but I’ve never seen any other flavor of pundit stoop to that accusation.

  • Lulu

    Fuck what heir interpretation of a fictional story is, under international law it is still fucking illegal!!!

  • Terry Firma

    I’m confused by why you’re confused. Like most believers, these people go by whatever interpretation of their religion best suits their needs.

  • Spelunker4Plato

    Saudi Arabia does a disservice to itself every single day that it clings to arbitrary and misogynistic orthodoxies. The bit about marrying and divorcing within the purview of their ideology is only a rationalization, not a justification.

  • Pattrsn

    I have and I’m not a lefty, oh wait I disagree with you therefore lefty. I forget when dealing with libertarians reality just goes out the window.

  • ONEVOICE

    if you have a “temporary marriage” then you are not breaking the religious laws regarding fornication…you technically are having sex with your spouse, no need to be stoned, whipped, or beheaded. Totally within the guidelines!!! Anyone who is interested please read ” Dancing Girls of Lahore: Louise Brown. You get the many different views and outcomes.

  • purr

    Hey Prussian!

    /wave

    I won’t mention any names but…the great population debate:P

  • momtarkle

    I’m lovin’ your down vote, sweetie!

  • Brian Macker

    There are female child molesters, ya know.

  • Brian Macker

    Sacralege!

  • Fred Bailey

    Two aitches. Wahhabi. Even in Arabic. The founder of the sect was one ibn Abdel-Wahhab.

  • Fred Bailey

    They are more puritan than fundie, actually. If you catch the distinction. And since they hold sway where the Holy Cities are they have effectively been more influential than the term ‘fringe’ implies.

  • purr

    Yeah true. It’s just that they don’t represent the majority of muslims and never have. But they hold all of the power it seems, and have more influence than they should, due to the riches from oil, fortuitous political associations going back hundreds of years, and of course, as you stated, pwnage of the Holy cities.

  • Abhoth Unclean

    You’re right Brian. I should have said ” 99.99999999999999999999% are men.” Just think how few children would be molested if we men stopped molesting.

  • Sue (Yet, She Persisted) Blue

    Apparently the state of Utah finds it legal. They just struck down some legal barriers to polygamy – which, among the FLDS groups there, means “marrying” girls as young as 13 or 14. So, yeah, right here in America, we’ve essentially got state-sanctioned pedophilia.

  • Ask Joe

    Which verse in the Quran stipulates or ratifies this?
    This is a common Shia practise, not a Sunni practise, this law existed at one stage in ME but was subsequently banned for possible misuse.
    Shias were initially a political movement which after approximately 300 years in the initial stages of Islamic history became a ‘religion’.
    In principle this law is open to abuse. It was primarily designed for men that were away from there homes for long periods; one year plus… to formalise or legalise and to prevent any form of fornication. Most people, during that period that participated in the Muta system did take there new wives home. The practise that continues today in ME with under age girls are performed by sick people.

  • Spuddie

    Bullshit. Everyone here would be saying its typical results of overly religious societies. Its always the believers who are quick to shame the victims and go into denial mode as a knee-jerk action.

    Your strawman is so ridiculous you can’t even give an example of that happening.

    The closest thing you get is when politicians are caught with people other than their spouses. Liberal politicians become the butt of jokes. Conservative ones get righteous indignation. Mostly because the conservatives are such self-absorbed phony moralizers that there is the element of hypocrisy which raises hackles.

  • Spuddie

    Bullshit. In many countries such as my examples of Colombia and Congo, it is THE GOVERNMENT which conscripts children as soldiers and/or concubines.

    Child rape is fairly common in places where religion guides civil society. Its not the religion which is the key detail. Its how much influence it has on the place. There is not a single insular sect which does not see this happen. There is not a single theocratic society where it is not commonplace.

  • Spuddie

    Not true. Utah only struck down the law where cohabitating like polygamists was illegal. It was a stupid law to begin with. Polygamy is still illegal as is pedophilia.

  • Westerplatte88

    Ancient Jewish Culture recognized 13 as the age a boy became a man, and in Europe at one point it was about at that same age when women would marry. At 13 a female is physically mature enough fore sex. 16 is a guarantee.

  • James

    No, that’s not prostitution; that’s prostitution and pimping.

  • Ozgirl

    A pedo is a pedo. they should all die. hiding behind religion is pathetic. and a religion that states that, is disgusting, and is not a good religion, it is a BULLSHIT one!. A religion filled with hate is a BULLSHIT one. its not really a religion, but a bullshit old txt written by perverse little fuckers who wanted to get away with disgusting behaviour.

  • quasibaka

    But , But, But , JEEBUS LOVES EVERYONE . Even you . He loves men , males and boys(except for those seduce innocent holy men of course) . also women(sort of) .

  • quasibaka

    Hey guys quit with the Labelling . Lefty , libertarian , etc.
    This is the sorta crap I expect at conservapedia or xtian forums. Respect and criticize ideas and opinions , not the guys making them.
    Happy Festivus

  • ThePrussian

    That’s odd. You see, when I look up the laws of that state, they put down the age of consent as 18, with allowances for 16-17, if their partner is no more than ten years older. So, what you’ve just written is utter balls.

  • ThePrussian

    The Congo has a government? Good joke. It is one gigantic war, where nothing is off the table – genocide militias, cannibal militias etc.

    There is a world of difference between that and a peaceful established state establishing child rape as a matter of conscious policy with reference to its fundamental religious texts. But, please, don’t let me disturb your quest to avoid having to face unpleasant facts.

  • Spuddie

    The African World’s War ended almost a decade ago. Kleptocracy has returned there. you are also confusing it with other conflicts on the continent.

    Child abuse is pretty damn common to all fundamentalist communities regardless of religion. The Bible is silent on matters regarding consent to sex or an age of consent. Muslims reference this same Biblical lack of concern. In your little tirade against Muslims you forget that the Bible is their religious text also.

    Religion has always been a useful tool for sexual predators.

  • brianmacker

    In a study of 17,337 survivors of childhood sexual abuse, 23% had a female-only perpetrator and 22% had both male and female perpetrators. Dube, S; Anda, R; Whitfield, C; Brown, D; Felitti, V; Dong, M; Giles, W (2005). “Long-Term Consequences of Childhood Sexual Abuse by Gender of Victim”. American Journal of Preventive Medicine 28 (5): 430–8. doi:10.1016/j.amepre.2005.01.015. PMID 15894146.

  • brianmacker

    According to a major 2004 study commissioned by the U.S. Department of Education – In studies that ask students about offenders, sex differences are less than in adult reports. The 2000 American Association of University Women (AAUW) data indicate that 57.2 percent of all students report a male offender and 42.4 percent a female offender with the Cameron et al. study reporting nearly identical proportions as the 2000 AAUW data (57 percent male offenders vs. 43 percent female offenders).

    Shakeshaft, Charol (June 2004). “Educator Sexual Misconduct: A Synthesis of Existing Literature”. United States Department of Education.

  • Brian Macker

    I don’t think it is true in this case. I’ve see leftist defend terrorism in particular instances (like calling them freedom fighters) but don’t remember any instance of them defending this particular practice.

  • Brian Macker

    I just provided two studies. In the one study the female perpetrators account for (23% +22%)=45%, and in the other study they account for 42.4%. So men are overrepresented by about 14% overall and ~18% greater compared to women. Not the 49.99999999999999999999% overall and 4999999999999999.999999% greater compared to women that you claim.

    Not sure where you got your number other than some bias you have against men, perhaps learned in a woman’s studies course?

    Imagine if someone was on here bitching about how blacks commit 99.999999999999999999% of crime. Sure they are way overrepresented but you’d really have to have skewed opinion of blacks to go that far. Imagine in that scenario that someone said, “Just think how crimes would be commited if blacks stopped commiting crime.” I don’t care who said it, black or white, that’s just a completely skewed view of reality.

  • Brian Macker

    I’ll debate you on this issue Cloony’s wifeyy. The Qur’an (and Hadith) allows sex slavery even if it doesn’t condone this particular form of prostitution specifically. This actually seems more just because these children actually get paid, and don’t have to also keep house for their molestors.

  • However, while your numbers are severely off (studies I found suggest 5-25%), women also don’t buy children for sex. If they are sex offenders, they usually abuse their own children, and they are unlikely to reoffend. In other words, male predatory sex offenders are the threat to these Syrian girls.

  • Brian Macker

    The Qur’an (and Hadith) allows sex slavery even if it doesn’t condone this particular form of prostitution specifically. This actually seems more just because these children actually get paid, and don’t have to also keep house for their molestors. It also allows for child marriage, and multiple wives, so some 50 year old leacher can molest up to 4 girls at once. Mohammad lifted this 4 bride limite for himself. To my knowledge he was only molesting one preteen via marriage when he was in his 50s. Only his hairdresser knows how many of his underaged slaves he was molesting. The jerk also changed the rules for himself regarding divorce and his wives remarrying. Which meant his underaged bride, Aisha, was left a child widow with no option of ever getting married again.

  • Brian Macker

    “International law” doesn’t apply.

  • Brian Macker

    Dawkins was referring to something that happened to him. He wasn’t referring to castrating a boy, marrying him, the anally raping him. Geesh. You shouldn’t lie like this. It is wrong to lie by ommission, implication, etc.

    Nor did Dawkins say that what happened to him was right. He believes that it was wrong. He was arguing that we shouldn’t lump the wide diversity of crimes into one category. Just like we shouldn’t lump failing to come to a full stop at a stop sign with a drunk driver killing someone.

    He was arguing against several stupid notions that both the left and right share in common. He was not arguing for your straw man.

    This is why we don’t listen to the religious (and other ideologues). They often lie to support their positions.

  • Brian Macker

    Why is the truth a silly claim? I think your the “silly” one for thinking that stating the truth is ever “silly”.

  • ThePrussian

    I’d classify a relentless determination to change the subject and go “well what about…” as a defense but chacun a son gout.

  • Brian Macker

    “The problem here isn’t particularly Islam, which is no more corrupt than other Abrahamic religions. ”
    I don’t agree. There are all sorts of differences between these religions that make a difference. You are making all sorts of mistakes here but I’ll name one. You are ignoring the “living relgion” which makes all the difference between a evangical, an Amish, a Mennonite, a Unitarian, a Catholic, and a Baptist.

    “Neither is there anything in Judaic or Christian law that condems such practices.”
    This is just plain false. Judaic and Christian law whether ancient or living, have no system which consists of marrying women for set periods of time to essentially legalize prostitution. As one example, Catholics heavily discourage divorce in various ways.
    You are making a false equivalence.

  • Ask Joe

    Prey tell, please quote the verse or verses in the Quran…
    How old was ‘virgin’ Mary when she gave birth to Jesus or Horace?

  • Brian Macker

    You haven’t proven your case in the slightest. I’m not trying to change the subject. It’s actually potentially supporting of your position, if you could make it. You obviously can’t.

    It’s as if someone had claimed that Catholicism supports child rape in their teachings, and I had writen “I’ve heard of priests raping children but didn’t know it was part of holy doctrine”.

    Now it is up to you to provide your evidence. Name one leftist who has supported this kind of prostitution. Heck, I won’t even require that they support doing this with children. Name one leftist who supports Nikah mut’ah, and give a quote.

  • Brian Macker

    There was no attempt by Suppie to change the subject. The claim is that no one [no leftist] is defending this practice. Should be easy to disprove such a broad claim, and guess what, this non-leftist atheist is more than willing to believe it. I’m willing to believe anything with sufficient evidence. However, I don’t believe things without evidence. You have provided ziltch.

  • Brian Macker

    You are terribly confused. Pointing out that other people do something is a defense only if you are trying to protect (not condemn) a practice. If a Muslim got on here writing that, “This practice is acceptable and besides, Catholics do it too and we don’t condemn them” then that would be a defense. It would also be fallacious. It’s a tu quoque fallacy, which is a kind of ad hominem attack. Condemning Catholic priests for similar behavior is not a defense at all. The point wasn’t that pedophile Catholic priests are good people and therefore we should not condemn Muslims for the same thing.

  • Brian Macker

    I didn’t understand this guy at first. He’s claiming that a) He has identified commenters here bringing up other religions as leftists b) That bringing up similar abuses by other religions constitutes a defense when done by non-muslims. Of course, both these are false.

  • Brian Macker

    … and creepy in its level of delusion.

  • Brian Macker

    If you were American you’d be classified as left wing.

  • Brian Macker

    This “climate change denial industry”… where do I sign up to make my riches? You know, because I actually honestly believe that climate change alarmism is misguided and anti-scientific. I might as well make my bazillions while I’m at it.

  • Brian Macker

    No, you sound like a lefty from an American perspective because they’re the only ones publicly obsessed with the Koch brothers.

  • Brian Macker

    I’m confused. If you are from southern India then you know about devadasi. This isn’t just Muslims in India endorsing prostitution via religion. Hindus do it too.

    From wiki: “A May 1993 study by Asha Ramesh quotes a local Indian school for devadasis exposing the connection of the modern illegal devadasi system with prostitution and poverty: “More than anything else, the motive of earning money by the prostitution of oneself or a relative is the chief cause of this dedication in recent years. The parents always take good care to choose a daughter of fair skin and regular features for this dedication so that she may attract more customers in her youth.”

  • Brian Macker

    Yeah, because a range of 5% to 25% wouldn’t have served my purposes too. How do you know which studies are correct? Were you there?

  • Spuddie

    Its actually more of an opinion. One not shared by anyone with personal or professional exerience with chid abuse.

  • Brian Macker

    Since you are already turning to tu quoque it is clear that you are aware of the problem, but just want to excuse it by “them too”. I already gave Quran verse, and there is an entire wiki entry on Islamic slavery you can look at for which I provided a link.
    Are you another one of those Muslims who is ignorant about your own religion, or am I speaking to someone who is just ignorant in general?

  • Brian Macker

    Both Dawkins and I have personal experience with being victims of child abuse. So your claim that it is not shared by anyone with a personal experience with child abuse is wrong.

    If he made a claim about his experience of a particular event then who are you to dispute it? It is a fact claim about himself.

    Do you understand that a simple fondling of a young boy with a hand for five seconds is not the same as penetration of a girl by and adult penis? To equate the two is ridiculous, and that was his point.

    Also different people have differing personalities. He didn’t find his incident particularly traumatizing. Perhaps someone told they would go to hell for getting touched would be. Not sure if its the teaching or the touching that is the worse offense in that case.

  • Brian Macker

    “… and will get you put on the sex offender list for LIFE.”
    As will having a girlfriend under the age of consent and a whole host of other innocent and arbitrary reasons. People who believe in zero tolerance have no sense of proportionality. Dawkins is more ethical than that.

  • Pattrsn

    I’m publicly obsessed, really? Bringing them up once equals obsession? Ah the logic of libertarians, never fails to amaze.

  • Pattrsn

    You want to make cash off of denialism? Well first you have to stop giving it away for free. The industry depends quite a bit on saps regurgitating their crap PR and talking points, simply because climate change contradicts their religion or ideology, usually Christian fundamentalists or libertarians. I’m guessing your of the libertarian faith.

    The next step is to get yourself a degree, anything to do with science, doesn’t have to even be climate related, they’re desperate for any kind of “scientific”credibility. You wouldn’t even have to do any science just dissemble any kind of sciency sounding crap, your audience will believe anything (again we’re talking creationists and libertarians, not the brightest guys around). Before you know it you’ll be doing talks on the tea party circuit, rolls full of republicans doting on your every word.

  • Brian Macker

    Yes, this is a public forum, and only someone who is obsessed with the Koch brothers would bring it up in the context of Islamic child rape.

  • Pattrsn

    But Brian, I didn’t bring it up.

  • Brian Macker

    I apologize. I confused you with the other guy.

  • Oh cute, you used a Ken Ham question.

    No, I was not, but that is also entirely irrelevant. You brought up a common MRA tactic of suggesting that talking about male sexual predators is never allowable and completely ignored the actual point- that women are not threats to the Syrian girls, but men are.

  • Brian Macker

    I don’t think you have a clue what I was doing. Abhoth stated, “and it is always men,” as if women are always innocent of using religion, or ideology to commit crimes, and as if they never molest children. It’s a bigoted comment.

    Women do:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2432620/Hitlers-Furies-The-Nazi-women-bit-evil-men.html
    There are women suicide bombers too. Also hateful palestinian women I’ve seen in videotaped interviews dicussing how they are raising their children to kill jews.

    “No, I was not, but that is also entirely irrelevant.”
    Since I brought up two studies and you only one I think it is relevant to ask how you know which is correct. Your study still showed that it wasn’t 99.99999999999999999%.

    Perhaps Abhoth should refrain from gross over generalizations that are bigoted and based on stereotypes.

  • Brian Macker

    “You brought up a common MRA tactic of suggesting that talking about male sexual predators is never allowable”
    I didn’t bring up any MRA tactic. So I have no idea what you are talking about. I did not suggest that talking about male sexual predators is never allowable. I’ve also never heard any MRA claim that, although I don’t really follow them.

    “and completely ignored the actual point- that women are not threats to the Syrian girls, but men are.”
    I ignored that because it is correct. That wasn’t the only point however. Abhoth had to go the extra mile and make the claim “and it is always men”. Which is false. It also comes across as man hatred.

  • It does seem to always be men justifying their sexual abuse of children behind religious reasons … though I agree that Abhoth went to far in claiming that all sexual abusers are men, when they are not.

  • Brian Macker

    Fair enough.

  • AskJoe

    @Brian – ok wiseguy.. nobody is turning anything into a tu quoque – it was a simple question, purely based on your sarcastic overtones and your obvious contempt for Muslims.

    The questions are;

    Prey tell, please quote the verse or verses in the Quran…
    How old was ‘virgin’ Mary when she gave birth to Jesus or Horace?

    Firstly, it is non of your business what my religious beliefs are. So don’t assume anything.
    Secondly, Where are your links, or are you one of those Evangelists that likes to misquote or quote out of context?
    Thirdly, if you had any sense, you would know that your wiki is not always authentic. If this is your source, then you are no better than a racist.

  • ThePrussian

    You ever dealt with nazi apologists? You’d be _amazed_ how little time they spend defending the Holocaust. They tend to say things like “It wasn’t that many, they were subversives, and anyway, what about Dresden?” Oh, how they love to go on about Dresden, and always change the subject. Ditto with Catholic blowhards like Bill Donahue defending its record, ditto with people defending Apartheid…

    So, you can call it “apologia” if you’d like, but it’s still the same thing.

  • ThePrussian

    No, I am not confusing it with other conflicts. And you really don’t know about the Congo do you?

  • Jay T

    I wouldn’t take that as a compliment. Being equated with the American Left wing is somewhere between being equated to Nazi’s and Stalinists.

  • Spuddie

    And even Dawkins point was wildly misinterpreted by kickinitincrik who claimed it was some sort of endorsement of such things. I still find it groan-worthy to make light of such things. It gives lazy people like kickinitincrik fuel for their nonsense.

  • Spuddie

    Not much of an argument. And you are still wrong,. The conflict over there ended some time ago.

    My suggestion is to read Dancing in the Glory of Monsters by Jason K Stearns. Its a good account of the war from its inception to the present.

  • Abhoth Unclean

    Ok Brian, I have made a mistake here as to the actual statistical situation but this is a side issue.

    In this article men, and one woman, exploit young girls under the cover of religion. The gender of the exploiters is actually not relevant. The exploitation and the religious cover is what alarms me.

    Here in Australia we have a Royal Commission into child sexual exploitation by organisations. By far the great majority has been done by men in religious organisations.

    The important bit here is that priests, ministers and child care workers have betrayed the trust placed in them and ruined the lives of many, many poor children – the same children they purported to care for.

    I don’t care what their gender or what their supposed religion is; they are unmitigated bastards the lot of them

    OK?

  • Peter Naus

    The only problem is, that’s actually a compliment!

    Given that the American left wing is somewhere to the right of Russian communists!

  • Rachel

    Brian I was trying to get the op back onto topic. He wants to discuss things that have nothing to do with this article. I wasn’t talking about consensual sex between a person who just turned 18 and someone they go to school with. We are talking about middle aged men, paying money to have sex with UNWILLING children. If you’re that interested in a discussion on the grey areas in the sexual abuse laws, I’ll meet you on the top of the Empire State building at 27:00 AM on the 31st of February and we can have a nice long chat about it. Meanwhile, can we please get back to the case at hand and stop bringing up irrelevant issues. And frankly, if we’re talking about a full grown adult (not some kid three weeks from graduating high school,(which is bad enough) but someone old enough to know better) having sex with a CHILD under the age of 15, then damn straight there should be a zero tolerance law.

  • brianmacker

    In this branch of the thread we were talking about Dawkins, and I was responding to a quote of Dawkin’s, “mild pedophila”, in a situation in which he was the victim. That’s what we are talking about here. Stop acting like I brought up irrelevant issues.

  • From the Quran, we find that it endorses marriage to a prepubescent child through the following verse;

    If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those who have NOT MENSTRUATED. As for pregnant women, their term shall end with their confinement. God will ease the hardship of the man who fears him. (S65:4, Dawood) The surrounding context deals with the issue of the waiting period for divorce, and remarriage. The Quran is telling Muslims to wait for a certain period of time before making the divorce final or deciding to forego it. The Quran exhorts men to wait a period of three months in the case of women who either are no longer menstruating or haven’t even started their menstrual cycles! Since Muslim men are to wait 3 months before divorcing a prepubescent child it means that they have been engaging in sex with those children.

    But Muhammad himself enjoyed sex with his 9 year old child bride. From the hadith we find;

    Aisha herself commented on her age when she turned 9 years of age. From the hadith of Bukhari, volume 5, No:234 “Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.”

    Aisha again commented on her age here: Bukhari vol. 7, No:65: “Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when he was nine years old. Hisham said: “I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).”

    From the hadith of Muslim, volume 2, No:3309 Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.

    And again From “The History of Tabari”, Volume 9, page 131 “Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me”. (The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.

    Before Aisha turned 9, – Sahih Bukhari (6:298) – Muhammad would take a bath with the little girl and fondle her.
    The permanent committee for the scientific research and fatwahs (religious decrees) reviewed the question presented to the grand mufti Abu Abdullah Muhammad al-Shemary, the question forwarded to the committee by the grand scholar of the committee with reference number 1809 issued on 3/8/1421 (Islamic calendar).

    After the committee studied the issue, they gave the following reply: As for the prophet, peace and prayer of Allah be upon him, thighing his fiancée Aisha. She was six years of age and he could not have intercourse with her due to her small age. That is why (the prophet) peace and prayer of Allah be upon him placed his (male) member between her thighs and massaged it softly, as the apostle of Allah had control of his (male) member not like other believers..