Selling Alcohol in London’s Brick Lane? According to Local Fundies, That’s a Flogging, and a Flogging Is Just the Start

Suck it Anjem Choudary.

He, and people like him, are a gift for the EDL leadership too. They feed off each other.
I don’t believe that most muslim immigrants want sharia law. Maybe I’m naive, but I think they just want to live their lives like the rest of us. Stuff like this is scary, but you get whackaloons in every religion, and in every social movement. The guys probably a psycopath. He’s atypical.

Choudry is a self serving lunatic. Unfortunately, many muslims think he’s right.
Pat Condell and others in Britain have exposed him for what he is.
All of Europe is threatened by islam through population growth. Birth rates are too low among the old Europeans.

In my drinking days, a statement like this from Sr. Choudary would have been tantamount to an invitation.

Thought I would share this. I found it interesting, but note that CBN is the source. Oh, and proceed into the comments section with caution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv6wvRge-6Q

I feel sorry for muslims. One day they are going to set off a firestorm from the West. There is only so much a threatened group will tolerate until they retaliate. My worst fear is that the muslims will cause their own holocaust. Hopefully the younger generation of muslims will become secular.

Beliefs are not genetic but they are inherited.

And of course the parents are the only influence, right? Two things can happen, Islamic communities could stay insular in which case they will remain as fundamentalist as the countries they came from but have little to no influence on anything outside their communities, or they could interact and mix with the rest of British society which will lead to a gradual shift towards more moderate beliefs. I live in London currently and from what I have seen the latter is far more prevalent.

“We cannot live among the non-Muslims and see this evil take place,” intoned hardline wannabe cleric Anjem Choudary.
Well, Maybe they shouldn’t be living among the non-Muslims.
As for patrolling around the mosque for non-Muslims breaking Muslim law, Who was there first? The Non? or the Muslims? The Mosque? or the Bar?

Two pieces critical of islam in a row?.But all the fundie christians who troll here say all you do is attack THEM…

It kinda helps when they don’t go out of their way to antagonize the Muslim communities or blatantly discriminate against them as a matter of policy. Otherwise you end up with what happens in France. No self-respecting Briton wants to be like the French, right?

I’ve noticed.

I was raised by Southern Baptist fundamentalist Christians. Look at how I turned out! Sorry but people are going to want alcohol, gambling and prostitution. If they didn’t, those things wouldn’t exist. So no, they aren’t going away just because some cleric rants about them. And since I don’t think human nature is negated by any religion, not even Islam, I’m willing to bet that the guy saying all this has a stash of beer, porn and/or lottery tickets at home.

Then don’t live among non-Muslims. There are plenty of Muslim countries where such things are illegal. Go, and don’t look back.

Sounds like the terrorists are advertising. Best get that deportation boat ready. There’s plenty of real estate in Afghanistan for any fundy that wants to practice Sharia Law. Let the level headed secular Muslims who embrace civilization stay, deport the savages.

That’s not what is happening in Britain. Muslims are using/pushing sharia and other morally bankrupt ideas.

Beliefs are passed like a virus from parents to kids. Most people’s religion is their parents’ religion. Birth rates are not irrelevant. There are many birth rate projection scenarios for the world and they all point to muslims out-birthing all Europeans. Birth rates are so low among the ‘old’ Europeans it will almost impossible to maintain a majority and their cultures. Condell is rarely wrong in what he says. He is no way like Choudary. Many muslims support Choudary and what he says.

and possibly even bacon. (evil grin)

I am honestly super afraid of this. I honestly believe that people being born and raised in extreme religions and ideologies like this will lead to disaster, but saying that implies horrific solutions that will fuck all sorts of things up (a la “raising the natives in a ‘civilized’ environment”, per past Australia’s rather insane relation with Aborigines).

Scary thing is that these Sharia Muslims are the same beliefs as many Muslims in other countries in the world. I think almost all (or all) denominations of Christian prominent Chruches condemn Westborro Baptist Church. I can easily find many Muslims in Islamic Countries, or even in the west (as I am an ex-Muslim and been raised by a “moderate” Muslim family), the beliefs of the crazies in those groups are 100% from the Quran and Prophets legacy.

I hope some of you take the time to read the mission statement from the creator of the EDL. While unfortunately such groups will inevitably attract ignorant and violent morons, at it’s core, I find what he is attempting to do very sensible. People have the right to protect their own cultures and expect others to assimilate to certain (though admittedly often hard to determine degree) My home town is near Dallas Texas, and over the years we have seen the Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, and of course Hispanic populations grow. It is substantial enough that there is a very modest Vietnamese section in my local library. These cultures add incredible value to our community, and in spite of many peoples’ perception of Texas, they are welcomed with their languages, cuisine and culture all greatly intact. We have not had any issues with the Islamic community, but I do notice differences in that they expect others to adhere to their cultural norms. I used to work in a beauty salon, and women wearing burqa’s would request I not be near them as they got their hair done since I was a man. Though it is trite, I find this unacceptable. Texas is very live and let live but I find any accommodating any culture a lacking excuse to interfere with the work day. If it were only this, I would perhaps be inclined to oblige, but I think the U.K. is a good precedent that shows that extreme communities in the Islamic world are not intent on facilitating that live and let live lifestyle we treasure in Texas (I know I’m going to get rebuttal on that, but I can tell you it is there) While violence and discrimination are never acceptable, using your citizenry to draw the line and protect cultural standards set by the majority of the community is admirable. I am happy that the Democratic party (of which I am a part of ) has not begun to conflate protecting one’s cultural mores with hate speech against a party, but I am greatly concerned that this may happen. Even though he seems to me ostensibly maligned in this post, I think the mission statement of the EDL deserves a second glance as I find its intent (if perhaps not its ilk) worth consideration.

The irony is that you in the US are much closer to sharia law than we in Europe. Gambling, public drinking, prostitution, topless or even nude sunbathing are mostly banned, smoking is heavily regulated, things that by and large are still legal in Europe. But we are the ones who have the bloody muslims.

There are more comments on this thread than protesters who turned up to support this idiot.

I don’t think you can really be accused of xenophobia for calling Choudary a loon, partly because he clearly is (thinking that the sub-5% Islamic population of the UK are likely to be able to declare sharia without the other 95% objecting in the strongest of terms) but mostly because he was born in the London Borough of Bexley.
In order to be xenophobic then doesn’t the subject of your phobia actually have to be foreign?

“In order to be xenophobic then doesn’t the subject of your phobia actually have to be foreign?”

The ‘xeno-‘ bit means either foreign or strange, so it’s perfectly applicabla to cases of being afraid of people who are not like you (i.e. strange from your own perspective), even if you come from the same country.

I think The white in his name is short for white supremacy.

I was thinking something similar, if the social conservatism of American fundies is causing young Christians to turn rethInk their religion, maybe nutjobs like this will cause young Muslims to rethink theirs.

This needs to stop. They’ve gone too far.

There is NO reason for Shariah to be in quotes on the bottom of that poster. NONE!

But it’s *not* evil. It wouldn’t even be rude.

Indeed, although where I grew up (rural southern England) “foreign” started about two villages away. And I certainly wouldn’t argue against “racist” as a fair description of something to avoid.
As for strange from my own perspective, well yes. Having gone from a drinking womanizing medical student in the 90s who went by the name Andy, I have to confess that to become the mouthpiece of intolerant Islam in general as well as two separate proscribed (banned under UK anti-terror legislation) groups in particular does strike me as strange.

I guess i stand corrected. Then I guess they are closer to the Christian theocrats in Russia and Uganda. Violent bigots who want their religious foibles to have color of law. 🙂

1. WBC gets plenty of support from other Christian sects and it’s agenda is well ensconced in the Religious Right’s political platform. They just say out loud what other Christians “dog whistle”. So I call BS on the notion that Christian crazies are in any way better than their Islamic counterparts.

2. Virtually all of the problems associated with fundamentalists of any stripe are political in nature. There is no difference between Muslim or any other religion in this respect except the level of political control they are given.
The “Muslim world” is predominately post-colonial autocracies which used to be predominately nationalist and secular in nature. Islamicism grew from both the influence of Iran (and reactions to them) and a way for dictators to siphon off dissent away from potential revolution. If not for the near eradication of dictatorship from the developed western nations we would be seeing Christian fundamentalists with greater ability to cause mayhem.

Like every other gang or terrorist.

There are sharia courts in England. Just because you can’t see them doesn’t mean anything. cheers
Islam, by its very nature is political. When push comes to shove muslims have to side with their religion or give it up. It’s not as easy to be a moderate muslim as it is a moderate christian. Most ‘moderates’ (cathlicks for example) don’t even realize that by not practicing all parts of their faith they aren’t really even cathlicks any more. That’s how much delusion is involved in religious belief. cheers

Societal pressures would be every bit as severe or more so than legal courts. Muslim girls in Britain are routinely taken back to the ‘homeland’ to be circumcised/butchered. You seem quite naïve. Or you’re sympathetic to muslims, or a muslim. Sharia courts and their decisions are very ‘real’ to muslims no matter how you want to soft sell it.

Thank you, I did notice in the mission statement that he had disavowed himself from them, so I figured that the organization itself was not reputable. Thank you for suggesting a legitimate alternative.

“While violence and discrimination are never acceptable, using your citizenry to draw the line and protect cultural standards set by the majority of the community is admirable.”

And that’s where your thinking runs into trouble. If you believed that, then you’d be happy to accept your values being subverted and basically replaced by the values of another culture if they become the majority.

Indeed Choudary basically said something similar. He expects that “his” people will outnumber the current majority by 2050 and that once that happens they’ll be able to take set their own “cultural standards” that reject freedom and democracy. Is “but there are more of us and we disagree” really the only argument you can produce for why things should be done your way instead of his? What happens to it when the Hispanics outnumber the other ethnic groups in the US eventually?

Something better is needed than the tyranny of the majority to guide society.

Um, Al Jazeera doesn’t actually advocate any religious views. They’re not a religiously affiliated or oriented network. They just specialize in news from the arabic speaking world. You know they started off as the BBC Arabic desk, don’t you?

See, you’re not talking about maintaining culture based on the force of the tyranny of the majority, then. You’re talking about simple things like supporting policies that promote the maximum possible freedom. Hence Shariah loans being allowable because they are voluntary arrangements that people can enter into if they so choose, but Shariah court systems that strip women of their rights are not. We don’t do this because white American culture says otherwise, we do it because it’s wrong to strip women of their rights.

You seem to think you’re taking a pragmatic approach by encouraging people to see this as an us versus them conflict. I find it a dangerous one.