How the Atheist Movement Failed Me – Part 1: Cost

I LOVE THIS ARTICLE!! FINALLY…

“Where are the picnics and hikes and movie screenings?”

They’re at hiking clubs and cinemas. You don’t need them to be attached to your atheism. The way religions try to totally take over the lives of their adherents is really, really, weird, controlling and creepy. We don’t do that, and that’s a good thing.

If you build it, they will come! If you want a no- or low- cost event, get together with a couple people and make one! My husband and I have people over and watch movies occasionally. It ends up being a small group, but a great cheap atheist group. Some people get together and have a day at the park, some people meet up at coffee shops to save money. These things are all happening all around us, but the only way they happen is if someone says: “Hey, I think it would be great to do _____.  Who’s with me?” 

One problem with this is that someone has to take charge, pick a day and a place, which can sometimes be a pain. I’ve known people that will say they want to have a family-friendly cheap event sometime, but are kind of expecting that it will happen on its own.  You can’t just wait for someone else to do it, you gotta take the leap. Good luck!

SPOT FREAKIN’ ON!

Thank you for writing this, thank you, thank you!

I hope the people wielding what resources we do have as a movement start to shift their priorities.  

Remember: religions have an awful lot of paid-for, tax-free infrastructure to start with.  The ingredients are cheap (per person) and the labor is free to make a homestyle dinner for a few dozen people – but someone had to build that restaurant-style kitchen….

I know this isn’t an ideal solution, because many of us have no interest in a church-like setting of any kind.  However, I found much of the above at a Unitarian Universalist church.  Congregations are different and some are more faithy than others, but mine is almost anti-theist. Of those who speak up about it, many of us of atheist and some vaguely deist.   9 of 10 at the new membership meeting said, “I lost faith years ago, had no church for years, then needed ____ (usually something social) so now I’m here.”   The minister apologizes on the very rare occasions she mentions  Jesus in a sermon.   It is a very comfortable and welcoming environment for me.   We have game night and LGBT movie night and social issues movie night and great potlucks with lots of local or vegetarian food.    The kids programs are great with lots of world religions, critical thinking, social justice and equality issues.  

Sorry – I didn’t mean this to be an ad.  But I found so much of what you wrote true.  I would like to start going to the local Free Inquiry Group, but I’m not going to a brewhouse on Thursday nights.   

I agree with those who say those of us feeling this could just go out and start something.  I haven’t tried it yet, but Meetup looks easy.   I bet if I contacted the local FIG, explained the issue, and offered to organize a picnic at a park they’d be glad to let me send out the notice to their Meetup list.   

I agree with Ewan. I don’t really see the point of adding the adjective ‘atheistic’ in front of my daily activities.

Totally agree! We also need the low cost emotional connection events that religions have. Deanna is completely right though, build it and they will come. If you’re unhappy with the events on offer, start a group! That being said, I think it would be a fantastic to have a section on the forums for organising local atheist group meetings. That way people can find like minded people a lot easier. (Not an active forum member but at a quick glance there was no obvious section for arranging meetings)

This! This!  A thousand times this!  It’s tough when every time you turn around on the interwebz there seems to be some super amazing event happening.  Due to personal finance reasons I cannot justify most of the expenses to travel or pay super expensive conference fees (on top of travel).  

Yes… everyone says “start your own local event.”  Well that is fine and dandy if you are good at that sort of thing.  Check out my moniker… “Introvert.”   Yeah I might be fine when I get to know you or I show up at some sort of gathering where I can skip small talk and dive right in (not afraid I am going to offend someone with my atheism, feminism, etc).  But I am NOT the person that can reach out and start something.  That is not my forte.   I wish I could, because Richmond, VA REALLY needs it. 

So yeah… I am that jerk that is sitting around hoping something awesome happens.  I’m just throwing it out there as to why maybe some of us might be frustrated but not act on that frustration. 

Also, some of us may only have the time/energy to show up to an event, and are not able to put that extreme amount of time/energy into planning no matter how bad we want it.   Aside from me being introverted, I have Fibromyalgia which gives a limitation on how much energy I can spend (even mental energy).   Some people have kids, so they cannot afford the extra time to be involved on a greater level. 

I agree.  $20 for a meal at an Irish pub is actually rather a lot for me.  What I also see is a rather older demographic at these meetings as well.

I’m lucky in that my wife has little interest in going to these.  If she did it would be $40 plus babysitter, plus parking…

What I’m really looking for is a place where we can all drop off our kids to play with one another and then just chat.   Atheist daycare cafes? 🙂

Since when is it costly to think, to speak and to debate? I used to be a rather destitute atheist, and simply never felt forced to partake in any event which came at a fee; nor did I feel in any way left out if I missed such gatherings. Poverty then never stopped me from meeting like-minding people, trying to spread reason, or getting informed.
The syllogisms of this article portray atheism as another costly cult – and demonstrate that the author merely sought to replace her sense of belonging previously provided by the Church by another membership to a new circle. It debases the very principles of reason: atheism is not mere proselytism or a fuzzy attribute to define an otherwise bland self; it is simply, at each individual level of capacities, influence and means, a fight against obscurantism, ignorance and irrationality. It is upheld by all who display the propensity to think for themselves, and can freely impact minorities and low income groups, just as much as the words of religions reach them: the more vulnerable populations have information readily available at no cost in public libraries, over the net should they be privileged enough to benefit from such luxury, and in a variety of newspapers or TV programs. Nobody forces anyone to enter a church and espouse a faith (unless you are a child born to fundies with never any contact with alternatives to your reality); on the same principle, the doors of a library are open to those who wish to push them only. Atheist pamphlets can be found in most libraries of your country. One does not need to pay for a dinner with well-off atheists to suddenly see reason; neither does one require to attend the latest two-day conference of the greatest minds of our time to deny the existence of god. There is enough free material around to enlighten you; past words, now freely available, of ancient authors are there to guide you, should you need light on your way; videos of seminar extracts, as well as websites from all the most profound contemporary and past thinkers, are open to those who seek them. Does the article’s author require someone to constantly refresh her thoughts, and dictate her what the latest trends in atheism are? Is atheism a fashion constantly evolving, that she feels she is not “a part of it”, should she fail to be present at a cocktail party because she could not afford it? Atheism is not a movement. It is not a membership to some elitist club. It is not about dinners or conferences. It is a humanist stance, akin to a philosophy.
It is true that knowledge is indeed evolving at great speed, and that conferences and seminars bring forth the latest discoveries in science, or analyses in thinking, etc. But if anything of ground-breaking significance is revealed in such gatherings, then surely it will be made available to the rest of the world soon enough? Does the author feel that, as a child who has not been invited to a birthday party, the lucky few who were will keep their joy a secret? Does she live in such a censored country that there will be no echo on the Net of what she would have missed out? And even if there were indeed scant information to be found about whatever she had not attended, would that threaten her atheist knowledge, and weaken it, and even destroy it? Does she need to be with others to know she is an atheist? Then she is not an atheist. She is just another member of a cult, in desperate need of being told what to think, finding solace in having replaced Catholicism with a new feature to characterise her. It is, sadly, the case with many noisy atheists out there: they wear it as a make-up, brandishing it as a personality trait, with as little rationality, and as rare depth, as another faith.
There should certainly, however, be even more “voices of reason”, perhaps even cynically fashioned after the highly successful scheme of catholicism’s missionaries (noisily reaching as far and wide as the planet allows); but unlike a religion, which hushes all personal thoughts by its constant presence and rituals pervading a believer’s life, once one has understood the need for reason to prevail in one’s life, there is less of a need to convene with like-minded people, as enlightenment and knowledge can easily (and arguably even best) be cultivated in the silence of one’s own mind, with some solid, good reads. But even if one insists that there is such a necessity as that of congregating, for the thrilling pleasure of brushing one’s thoughts against someone else’s (of course, from such moments can come profound personal improvement), then the mention by the article’s author that some such reunions happen in restaurants or expensive venues is completely irrelevant, and rather reflects her puerile need of belonging to a group rather than her desire to apply her mind to thinking with others, which can be done in all sorts of perfectly free circumstances.

It sounds like to me your missing the “purpose” given to people in Christianity.  Go find a cause to volunteer for.

UGH…UUs are not really much better than the local Baptist church.  The ones here charge for almost all their functions (usually more than an appetizer at a restaurant) and have bizarre rules.  The one rule I ran headlong into was “no kleenex, only cloth handkerchiefs”.  This was actually printed in their monthly newsletter and when I called someone to ask if it was real or satire, I was then told to not come back to the church since “apparently this isn’t the place for YOU!”.  Seriously.  This happened. 

That was back in 2001 and it finally made me realize that all religious organization are pretty much the same crap underneath the surface.  Yeah, some may be more welcoming to LGBTs and not talk about Jeebus, but they often have their own arbitrary dogmas. 

So, UUs disgust me, but I do have them to thank for helping me to finally rid myself of ANY lingering desire for religion.  Though it is a bit weird to say that I finally declared my atheism for refusing to follow the commandment of “thou shalt only use cloth handkerchiefs whilst in the inner sanctum of the UU.”

My understanding (which is admittedly very limited) is that UU congregations vary widely, which would explain the disparity between your experience and Marylynne7’s. Your experience doesn’t mean that anyone should be discouraged from seeking out a UU church, but it should temper one’s expectations. (I personally have had not wanted to go to a church after I deconverted, so I’ve never cared to look into the local UU congregation.)

I’d ask what she is doing to help. Local groups don’t have paid position to coordinate events or a tax free place to meet.  We tried a ton of times to do family events and it just never worked.

What I’d suggest is that if her local group has sufficient demand for a hike, for example, someone needs to manage that and put it on the schedule at the same time, same day, every month.  We’ve manage to do that with a book club and volunteering. Over time it becomes part of the culture of the group and folks work it into their schedule.

Speaking from experience, being in a leadership position in one of these groups is hard. We’re not exactly an easy group to keep happy.

However, she would like to do stuff like that with other atheists.  It seems she’s wanting to create more sense of community and social obligation.  There’s nothing wrong with wanting to share “purpose” with other atheists. 

I absolutely agree about the older demographic part of this. My local freethinkers’ group (which I really do love) is predominantly middle-aged (and older) people, and such groups really do need to make sure they’re catering to younger demographics.

Good article.

I think all of the following are important.

1. cost – not all atheists have sufficient disposable income

2. time – not all atheists have lots of free time. 

3. venue – many atheists are in a situation where if they go at all, thy must bring their kids with them.  The venue must be appropriate.  No bars and no boring (for the kids) lectures about anything.

4. purpose – not all atheists are looking for the same thing in activities.  Some are life-long atheists that are somewhat comfortable in their social status and only look for some interesting debate or conversation.  Others are recent deconverts that may be looking for a more comprehensive substitute for the community that their former church provided.  Others are looking for other things.  Atheists, just like religious people, are from many different backgrounds and walks of life with age, education, vocation, and economic theory differences – and some with kids, some without.  The common bond for religious groups is their shared belief in one particular set of religious scriptures.  They can all get together and worship together.  Sing the same songs.  Atheists are only bonded by their lack of belief in the supernatural and possibly a common concern not to be the victim of the tyranny of the majority.  It is much more difficult to organize around a negative.  Some think atheists should organize around humanistic principles instead.  Others would prefer to work simply to make all other activities (like non-religious social clubs) strictly secular where if you have an interest in something, you can go do that without fear of being proselytized by the religious majority.  The purpose of atheism is a tricky subject.  It is a damn shame that Christianity has one of its main tenants to go proselytize to the world and convert everybody.  What we really need is for Christianity (and other religions) to change so that they are content just to keep their beliefs to themselves.  Then we could all simply get on with our lives and there would be no need for an atheist movement – people could freely organize around common interests.  But religions change VERY slowly.  We will have them trying to convert everybody for some time to come.

I was unaware of this. My local group cooked dinner and brought it to my apartment the night before my first anniversary. We help each other move. My husband and I hosted a poker night. These people are what makes Fayetteville feel like home to me when my family is 1200 miles away. I’ve never met a group of people that are more concerned about others. The only thing that may make my group different is that it’s geared toward military families.

I just had this experience myself. Local skeptic group is an hour away. First activity? bar. friday. until 1 am.
By the way I love the commenters’ suggesting young parents with little money and kids should just built it themselves. Clearly they do not have small children. I work. My wife works. I have a kid. I do not have time to build a new atheist group. If that means I’m not welcome then I guess I’m not joining your little atheist thing.

Do you want to grow your movement or not? If so stop telling people who don’t feel welcome that they should fix it themselves. Telling poor, young parents with jobs and kids that if they don’t like it they can start and manage their own group just means you aren’t going to see any of them. Because they don’t have a lot of resources or any time.
If you always respond to everyone who tells you why they aren’t involved by fundamentally missing the concept of what feedback is and how to use it, guess what? They aren’t going get involved.

You emailed them and asked about doing something during the day, maybe at a weekend, right? What did they say?

Wow,

Thanks for an interesting article.  I don’t have any suggestions but as a European the article and the replies really opened my eyes.  Here in Europe none of this would be an issue.  Unless an event is specifically religious it is likely to be default atheist.

So you have my sympathy and whilst I have no concrete suggestions I remind you that with time this is an issue that will go away as the poportion of athiests creeps up in your locality too. 

 The secular alternative to a church isn’t a church full of secularists though, it’s groups that actually are secular, in that they don’t address religion at all.A secular hiking group is just a hiking group. A secular environmental charity is just an environmental charity. A secular poker night is just a poker night.

You shouldn’t have to move from having your whole social life built around one religious identity to having it built around another – just find people doing the stuff you want to do, and go join up. The OP is apparently ‘lindy-hopping and yoga-doing’ – is that atheist lindy hopping? Atheist yoga? Or secular, no religion required, lindy-hopping and yoga? That’s the sort of place you get your community without a church, not by building an atheist church.

“A hiking group” in most parts of the USA turns into “A Christian Hiking Group.”  Read the clueless rhetoric of all those town council folks in the country, defending their opening meetings with prayers to Jayzus.  They truly cannot even conceive that someone could object to this.

Any help for secular guys Bridget?

Where do you live? Because for people who live in the bible belt, there ARE NO SECULAR hiking groups or knitting groups or anything. Everything turns into Christian groups because all the people are Christian.

I agree with Isilzha. Where I live, I can’t tell anyone that I’m an atheist. I would be really nice to be able to fun things where I don’t have to worry about what I’m saying and how I’m saying it. It’s not that we need to insulate ourselves, or add “atheistic” to anything. But we need some sort of safe space to just relax and have fun. No cognitive dissonance allowed.

 You’re not welcome because an event is not accommodating to your schedule?

No, I’m not saying that she needs to organize her own group and spend precious time and resources to do so. She’s saying that established groups are not serving her needs. I’m saying, speak up *within* that existing group. All it takes is one person to say, I’d like for us to go do this thing, and other people will join her. One thing I have seen within existing groups is one person will say “I’d like to see us do something low cost and family friendly.” But when you suggest that all they have to do is tell organizers and maybe be just the one person who shows up, they don’t want to do it. They want for it to already exist on a regular basis and then they can join in sometime. Well, someone has to be the first. You don’t have to do anything spectacular or organized, you just have to be the first one to say it. Other people will jump on board. 

I literally have had people in one of our local groups say that we should move two of our existing meetup nights to another location they felt was more appropriate (although it was in a restaurant). When I suggested that if they wanted a different location they could just pick a time and place and they would have lots of people join them, they said they didn’t want to have to go. I’m not blaming the victim here, I’m saying they should say one sentence on an existing group or online forum and they would have the meetup they want. A lot of people are kind of waiting for the movement to do something for them.

I have mixed feelings about this article.

On the one hand, I think Amanda raises some very valid points. It’s true that not everyone has the funds or free time to travel to a conference. And perhaps it is also true that the events offered my local groups are prohibitive to low-income groups or families.

On the other hand, I have been an atheist for a long time and I’ve never been to even one convention. I really wanted to go to the Reason Rally last year but I just couldn’t afford it. Like you (and many of the commenters) might do, I wistfully check out the upcoming conferences and conventions for American Atheists. I even once checked out how much it would have been to attend the Global Atheist Convention in Australia earlier this year, fantasizing over my Expedia search results as if I’d have the extra $2k for air fare, hotel and convention tickets. But although I am unable, I do not feel that I am any less an atheist for not attending.

Institutionally, churches operate like a for-profit corporation. I saw a thread on Reddit a week or so ago about a guy who tabulated the expenditures of his local church, and the scummy pastor was using offering money to finance his house, bills, lifestyle, etc. And while I’m sure that not *all* churches are equally evil about spending offering money, I do know that most church institutions have extra money for things like dinners, community outreach programs, etc. Your/our local group of skeptics or secular humanists, however, probably have far less money in their treasury to host the kinds of events you are wanting. But do not fear, churches have centuries of a head-start on secular groups, and those groups are growing every year. Eventually, I hope that they will be able to offer the kinds of cross-class events you are seeking (and in more areas, too!)

Lastly, I know several low-income atheist families who manage to make friends and have events like potlucks and reading groups. A dear friend of mine is a stay-at-home mother of two in Oklahoma and she managed to find a secular community by poking around online and founding her own group for secular parents in her area. We atheists have a disadvantage in that the structures do not yet exist for broad community, especially in “meatspace,” but that doesn’t mean that the structures themselves are failures.

 Would the grant cover her husband’s travel expenses?

I’m not saying that that sounds anything other than horrible, but I can’t see it as a failure of community organisation that someone who doesn’t have any other atheists anywhere near them, and/or cannot publicly identify as an atheist, can’t get an atheist hiking group together.

If it’s a red state, God is probably involved.  I grew up in New York and then moved to LA, now I live in Boise, ID so my wife can be near her family.  I’ve had a cultrue shock coming from such liberal states. While my inlaws are atheists or at least non-theists, there seems to be nothing you can do here that doesn’t have people bringing in God somehow.  Even my job has “Being a good Christian” as a company value, and we’re a rather large multi-state operation.

Having grown up in a non-religious household I am noticing that atheists who have fled religion continue to seek a coven, flock or congregation to feel accepted or fulfilled. It’s like a ghost limb that’s been amputated, you still feel the need to flock together for a similar purpose. But atheism isn’t a purpose or religion. If you seek human companionship, as we all do, then seek out groups based on your hobbies or nerdy ways, political or activist etc… “Atheism” just means you don’t believe in God, not a congregation.

I couldn’t agree more.    I do sympathise with her though.   I can’t imagine what it must be like to be surrounded in every direction by god botherers.  I wouldn’t complain about how the Atheist movement had failed though,  I’d be proactive and do something about it.     Writing things like “Atheism is too often expensive.”  really isn’t constructive and definately doesn’t help the atheist movement. 

I’ll tell you why I can’t do that. Because I am very impoverished and live in a hovel and would be very embarrassed to invite nice suburban middle class families to my home. So I am too poor to participate in confrences and meet-ups and too poor to start my own come over and be friends group. So where does that leave people like me? In a church there is a place to go a hall or a sanctuary but we don’t have that so it just leave me isolated.

I’ve gone to 3 or 4 different UUs in 2 different states.  Although the last one I went to was the worst, they were all still churches and religious organizations.  I suppose if someone is still looking for religion in some way they may like UU.  However, I have found each on that I’ve attended to be dogmatic and LOVE to embrace all kinds of woo.

My apologies for the spacing format above, it got changed when I posted. It looked a lot better before.

There are several groups in my local area.  All have free meetings.  One has all their meetings at the local library.  Another has meetings in members homes.  The group I’m a member of has meetings in a Chinese Buffet, but the owners have been nice enough not require everyone to purchase meals to attend, though most do, this only happened when a person wanting to attend our meetings expressed the fact he was on a limited budget.  It took us 5 minutes of talking with the owners to get their ok, but until it was brought to our attention it wasn’t a known issue.  If your local groups are not meeting this need and are only having meetups that require you to shell out cash, say something to them.  Help coordinate a meetup that does not require extra cash, a picnic in the park, invite people over for a movie night.  One local group has a regular meetup just to get together and ride bikes on a local bike trail.

I’ve never seen an Atheist group say ‘no we don’t want to have a free meetup’.  Go to a local meetup group, talk to the organizers, tell them know what you need.  I’ve never met a organizer of a group that wouldn’t bend over backwards to attract new members. 

I believe people like him are referred to as a “troll” and are best ignored.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but the thought of “converting” anyone to anything makes me sick.  I had enough of that growing up Southern Baptist.  I’m happy to talk to people who have questions or are interested in a lively discussion, but “converting” sounds to me like going door to door with some equivalent of Chick tracts.  No thanks.  I am interested in people knowing that they aren’t the only ones who don’t believe.  But converting is not my goal.  Gack!

As more come out as atheists the diversity of the “community” will increase as so will the ways to participate.  Remember the idea of an atheist “community” is fairly young.  I like your ideas for adding more ways to participate.

In Europe you can know people for decades and never learn anything about their religious beliefs other than their denomination. In many places it’s just not talked about in.

 I agree–to a point. But I would argue that the pervasive influence of religious nonsense on culture, education, and government points to the need for garden-variety non-believers to come together in a political movement.

 not if you’re closeted & rural, as I am. And not when the LOUD atheists won’t read emails, comments, blogs from low income people who are BEGGING to be included. We are invisible.

Can you go to a park? Can you meet with people anywhere else that doesn’t cost any money (libraries are usually cool)? Can someone else do the hosting at their place? I’m just throwing out suggestions here. If you want to do things with other people, you can make it happen. Just toss a line to a local group. Let people know that there are things you’d like to do, and I’m sure someone will join in. No one will know unless you tell them you’re willing. This doesn’t require a whole lot of time, money, or effort. 

I belong to an atheist parent group. We go to the science center, play dates, stroller walks, the children’s museum, among other things. I recommend meetup.com, it’s how I found my group! You can choose to attend only the free events (like we usually do- I am also gainfully unemployed due to the joys of the recession).

I think you may be looking for something your church may have provided which the atheist movement does not. I think you are missing the point of the atheist movement. The atheist movement as a whole is transient. That is, we only exist as a group because we are the “other” box. We are the non-theists. We are coming together to reach a common goal: separation of church and state and promotion of science and reasoning over theism. Once the USA has reached a critical mass where non-theists make up > 50%, how would you group atheists together? 

Atheist groups exist for different reasons. In some situations, the group is organized to focus on atheism and/or anti-theist topics. In other situations, it’s merely a social group which originally started with the common-ground that they were all atheists. Your misconception lies here – with the assumption that there should be some atheist community that goes on.You appear to like to bake. Do you know others that like to bake? Why not join some sort of cooking community?My point is that atheism is not a community like any religion is. Religious folks tend to all follow the same dogma. We do not.We are a community like Democrats are a community. Do Democratic conventions offer the stuff you want? Democratic day care of kids at conferences? To be sure, some Democrats may meet together when there are only a few of them in a right-wing area but what they choose to do is independent of their reason for coming together in the first place.

I wanted to write about my personal experience with this to show you that there are ways to build a community with out spending money and without the infrastructure of a church.  If you are considering trying to form a group, you might find it interesting. 
 
 A few years ago I felt the same way that the author of this post feels now.  I was having a hard time finding what I wanted—which was a group of atheist homeschooling mothers.  I felt very out of place in the homeschooling community. I wanted to meet people I could talk to in person about raising kids while atheist and homeschooling while atheist.  
 
I checked out the ethical society, who had a weekly Sunday morning meeting.  Most of the folks were older than me and there were few kids present.  The atheist meetups were at restaurants or bars and most of the attendees were single guys.  The UU church was fine, and the people were nice.  But, really, it was still too church-y for my taste. Because of my introversion, a large group setting is not really what I wanted.
 
In the end, I decided to bite the bullet and start up a group myself.  Besides being an atheist homeschooling parent, I was also working at the time.  So, I know all about being busy.  But, it is not all that hard to start up an email loop and invite people you think might be interested.  They can then invite people they know.  Once you have a handful of people, you can start meeting in person, if that is what you want to do.  I specifically created my group to be for atheist homeschooling mothers.  I was surprised at the number of people who were interested. I am thinking that if I can find enough homeschooling mothers to form a group, then people with other interests should be able to do it as well. 
 
Our group is still mainly email based, but we meet monthly.  Members take turns hosting the meeting in their homes. The email discussions are wonderful—we share article and videos and then discuss.  The in-person meetings are always fun.  The real gem is the friendships I’ve made with the other members.  The formal meetings are only once per month, and cancelled during the summer.  But, I get together with a smaller subset of the other members informally much more often.  Several of the members of the group have become very close friends.  Our kids hit it off, too. 
 
I am an introverted person, so for me having a few like-minded close friends is the perfect type of community to meet my needs.
 
Anyway, if you want to start up a group, I found that starting with an email loop, inviting people that you think might be interested, and then gradually moving to face-to-face activities worked well.  There is one thing that you have to do though—you have to be comfortable being “out” as an atheist, because otherwise you may never find out who else in your local area is like minded.  I was pretty sure when I started that there were few atheists in my local homeschooling community.  Once I opened up about my own views, I found I was not alone and I was able to form my group. I did get snubbed by a few former friends, but the new friends I gained definitely made up for it.  And some of the people I thought would snub me ended up being really cool about it even though we disagree. 
 
 I also found that, in the beginning, I had to be the person who started most of the discussions on our email loop.  I made a point to post a question or an article every day.  I also responded to everything that anyone else posted, so they would be encouraged to post again.  I hosted the first couple of in-person meetings in my home.
 
Somebody had to put in the work to start the group and get it rolling, or it would never have happened.  Since it was something that I really wanted, I decided to do that work. Now the group is on auto-pilot, but I have the community I want, the friendships I need, and my life is a whole lot happier.  Worth the time and effort!!
 

Meetup.com is what brought me in. Sure, we have a night at the bar, and we have coffee meetups, but we also have a movie night. We found a place that let us use their facilities for free initially, but after they closed, movie night moved to our house. People bring snacks. I’m an introvert too, and it’s hard sometimes, really hard, but it’s worth it.

Meetup is worth checking out, though, just to see if somebody is doing something in your area.

“I’ve never experienced what you’re experiencing, and therefore it doesn’t exist.” – Half the commenters in this thread

Similar to how gay people will often wear rainbows or other symbols to denote to others their friendliness in closeted situations, you may wish to adorn yourself with some symbol.

I think the FSM usually flies right over the heads of most theists. I like those shiny metal FSM car stickers. Or a /r/atheism sticker.

Keep looking. I use an anonymous name to post links to our local community on the local newspaper website in the comments sections. Have had one troll and 6 genuine people join that way.

I like your description of “on”. 🙂

I was “off” for a long time when I first moved to Texas. Then I became stuck “on” for a year or so. Now I flip back and forth depending on my mood. Sometimes I bite their heads off. Other times allow them to make their assumptions.

Then join them and ask for a family friendly location. We were meeting at bars for a bit but then we got some folks with kids. Now we meet at playgrounds and family-friendly areas. The folks with kids also offer to host so the kids can go to sleep as needed, etc.

 Normally, I don’t respond to trolls, but I’ll make an exception for you.  I don’t hate god.  I can’t hate something that doesn’t exist.  I also don’t introduce myself as an atheist, but it also isn’t something I can tell people about precisely because of my job.  Maybe you can grow balls and walk around telling people what you think, but in my line of work, that can put me out of a job and future job prospects very quickly.

The young man I mentor has a mother, not parents.  His mother doesn’t want him to read anything at all.  She doesn’t even see the point in all the stuff he needs to read in school because, to her, it’s useless.  I have witnessed her telling him that college is unimportant as well because she gets by on $9 an hour and welfare.

I was also witness to an event where a neighbor told his mother that he didn’t believe in god and the tirade she went on.  She threatened to throw him out (at 15) and disown him so he lied to her and said the neighbor was angry at him and just wanted to get him into trouble.

I could go on and on to the things I’ve seen with this kid’s family.   I also do not assume that his mother doesn’t want him reading a book because of god, I know it for a fact.  It’s 2012.  I shouldn’t have to defend myself for letting a kid read a book.  If a book is going to shake the foundation of your beliefs, then maybe there’s something wrong with your beliefs.

This comment was written in anger and may not convey what I really wanted to say. I just happened to be reading this blog post when I found out that my financial situation has put me in a place where I can’t act in a play. I work a stupid mindless job for very little money and theater is the joy I get out of my life. When people ask me what I do I always tell thm my avocation is as an actress, it is what defines me.

The post reminded me that those around me have these communities that they depend on in their churches. Places that they can go for solace when crap like what is happening to me happens to them. I don’t know any other atheists and I just seethe when I try to talk to my religious friends and their response is that they will pray for me. I am very poor and right or wrong I am very embarrassed by that fact and the way I have to live because of my poverty. My neighbors can go to their neighborhood churches and mosques to meet people who are like minded who they can lean on. I don’t have a place like that. Yeah I can go to the library or the park but who is there for me to talk to about what is happening with me? If I was to enter a church weeping because my life is crumbling someone would listen to me. Even as a stranger. But where do the isolated non-believers have to flee to when we break? Where is our community when someone is falling down? I do not and cannot ever believe in gods so I have no one to turn to right now. No place to just get it out.

And I think that was more of what I was trying to find really than a picnic.

 when people are presented with flaws in a argument they presented its best to yell troll.

i also love how you countered my points.

The strange thing is that in my area (Kentucky) most of the atheists in our group are under 30. They have kids. We are all poor. They still insist on going to a very popular bar/restaurant where we will have to pay AND get interrogated if someone overhears us speaking about anything that could be atheist related. From what I gather, most of us do not attend these outings. Other things have been suggested but they just aren’t happening. Hm. 

I’m sorry that this has kept you away!  Here in San Diego we have a group that’s zero or very low cost most of the time, and mostly we get together and socialize (picnics, bonfires, hikes, community service, etc.)   Not everything has to be a convention!

for some reason my spacing keeps getting squished 3/4 of they down the page, sorry about that.

Your thinking you know what is best for this child, and it seems your wrong. by that i mean your in this insanely redneck bible thumping state so you are putting the kid at risk by “showing him the light” and by the light i mean yours.

at best nothing happens to the kid at worst he gets thrown out .  he would be better off living in a hick town beliveing in god with the support of the community than being chastised as a heretic witch that needs to be dipped in water or burned (if the water does not work )

your help could very well hurt him more than help him.

true it could help him become more than he would as a god worshiper but are you willing to gamble on his life(not your life as you can move).

It’s not at all clear that you actually made any points. You say “if the parents dont want him to read a certain book he should not read it” but you don’t back that bald assertion up with any sort of rational argument. Or indeed, irrational argument.

 so you would want a person that believes in god to take your kid and brainwash him into believing in god?

i know i would be upset 

The Freedom From Religion Foundation is holding its yearly convention in Portland this year the weekend of October 12-14, and Richard Dawkins is the keynote speaker.  Sadly, even though I live on the West Coast, I can’t afford to attend.

 Reading isn’t contraband in my town.  It’s a problem with his mother.  His mother does not equal the whole town.

I, myself, have never felt the urge to go to an event or attend get-togethers with other atheists. Maybe it’s because I have a B.A. and M.A. in Philosophy, so I’ve grown accustomed to having nobody else to talk shop with (not a lot of card-carrying philosophers out in the field). Over the years, I’ve learned to appreciate both philosophy and atheism as a solitary sport, although part of that sport is commenting profusely about various matters on the web!

 I know where you’re coming from Muzakwood. At one point I wound up in a homeless shelter with my kids…so I really do get it. That’s years behind me now, and I have some perspective. But I know that while you’re in the middle of it, and you are using every drop of energy you have just to try to survive, well it’s overwhelming to a point that many people can’t understand.

One thing that helped me in that situation (emotionally) was to do some small volunteer work at the shelter once I was out. This helped me because this was a group of people who really understood the pressures of poverty. I didn’t become a huge activist or anything…I was still just spending all of my time and energy trying to survive. But having people around who “got it” really helped. And doing something to help other people in my situation really helped.

From there I was able to make some connections that eventually lead to friendships where, once I was on more stable footing, did become a small skeptic’s group at one point (that’s more where my interests were at the time).

I just suggest making connections wherever you can right now (even if you do have to deal with people praying for you) until you meet some like-minded people within that group. Then use that seed to grow what you need.

If you can’t see the difference between ‘brainwashing’ and reading a book there really is no hope for you.

It is widely considered a good idea for the children of atheist parents to be exposed to a range of religious books (see particularly Dale McGowan’s blog); it’s just part of the general knowledge of culture that everyone should have.

More knowledge is generally a good thing – you can read something that disagrees with your beliefs without it changing them if your beliefs are secure and robust. If they’re not, then you should be changing them.

As berberine said – if your beliefs can’t withstand exposure to the fact that different beliefs exist, then they’re pretty worthless beliefs to start with.

I’d love to have the time to plan and organize a meetup but I just don’t.  I do have the time to attend one that is already set up.  I went to a few of a local meetup but then had a falling out with an active member, so it would be awkward to attend one now.  It’s depressing, actually.

As a poor atheist, I’ve found that the best way for me to get to participate in the movement is to become an organizer. If you’re doing a lot of the volunteering/organizing, you often get to attend for free. If not, you can organize events that fit your budget. For example, CFI-Ottawa has quite a few potluck picnics and other free get togethers. When we do charge admission, we try to keep prices as low as possible while still covering the costs of putting on the event, which usually means $2-3 per person. 

Yes, the movement does need to take its demographic into account. Here in Ottawa, many of our people are students and young families, and being poor is a big part of both.

It IS that bad here.  When you start a job it doesn’t take a week before someone asks where you go to church or something of the sort.  At least where I live which is on the fringe of the “bible belt”.  I call a lot of doctor’s offices every day and I get quite a few “have a blessed day” at the end of the calls.  I can name at least 3 people at my hospital who have a bible verse in their email signature (I’m sure there are many more but of the ones I interact with on a regular basis)

Life isn’t all or nothing.  Just because she wants to find some low-cost activities that involve other non-believers doesn’t mean she’s looking to do everything in her life with other atheists.  I totally understand where she’s coming from, wanting to do some treasured, fund activities without having to eventually face religious conversation.

If I go to my local scrapbooking store for a scrapbooking event, I’m prepared to face tons of church and god talk.  It’s part of the culture of this activity.  Is it wrong for me to wish I had at least ONE atheist friend with whom to do this activity?  I don’t want to give it up just because of the religious aspects.  I’m just looking for a friend with like beliefs with whom to hang while we craft.

My life doesn’t revolve around atheism, granted.  But is it wrong for me to want some atheist friends with whom to do things?  Granted, I have few friends to begin with, but the few that I do have are ardent Christians.  (They are mom of my son’s friends and fellow scrapbookers, so we have other things in common.)  While I adore my friends and we’ve gone on scrapbooking retreats together, the conversations inevitably end up on religion, with me defending my atheism.  I’d like to skip that whole thing and just have fun, so a few atheist friends would be great.  To meet them, I’d like to attend some events.  THAT’S where the disconnect happens.

Yes, taking the statement literally helps a lot.  [eye roll]

It really is like herding cats.

i said thinking was contraband  not reading your point is moot since i never said reading was contraband .

so if the whole town is not anti atheist. you can now  tell people your an atheist?

 no but you think you know better than his mother.

how did he find out your an atheist i you cannot tell people?

You’re like my husband… unfortunately, I’m a socializer, which means I have to socialize alone.

 we are talking about a teenager one that is not quite sure what they believe in

Not wrong at all.  Like I said, it’s probably because I’m an introvert and I prefer to be alone.

My friends are all christian and we all know not to bring up religion.  Then again, only a few of my friends are thumpers, the rest don’t even go to church.

We plan a move to Vancouver at some point in our future, so this is good know.

Yes, it IS that bad in the US.  The thing that the faithful, fundie Christians is that they see their own faith as the only faith rather than one among many.  I can’t count how many have told me that my poor Catholic mother will be going to hell for being Catholic (it’s a “cult,” you know).

 Dannel, do you know there are a few secular groups in Boise. I belong to 2.

Art Rigsby-Nampa

Oh please. I’m sofa king tired of other people questioning atheists as to whether or not they’re the True Scotsman type of atheist that fits into their own view, whatever it may be.

Not believing in the existence of a deity and wanting to be part of a social community are not mutually exclusive.

And you sound kind of like a jerk.  See, I can make snap judgments based on short amounts of text too.

 We do atheist potlucks here in Bakersfield.  Nobody does baby stew like our cooks!

jimmy rustling
 

When I first moved to Chicago, the CFI offered a monthly lecture series.  It was free with CFI membership, $5 without.  I heard some great lectures, met some very interesting people, and learned that you can sing Oh Little Town of Bethlehem to the tune of The House of the Rising Sun.

About 18 months ago they just stopped, and I can’t get anyone to explain why.  

There is a monthly dinner meeting, which I attended once, but it was so noisy that I couldn’t hear anything from one end of the table.  The other end was talking about reality television.  If I liked that crap, I’d be home now, watching it.

There’s a group called Secular Singles.  I happen to be single.  I also happen to be pushing 50, so I don’t fit in with the young-and-flirty crowd (although to be honest, I didn’t fit in with it when I was that age, either).  Bars and comedy clubs and Sunday morning brunch just isn’t my thing.

My two best friends in this city are Christian, and while I love to get together with them (we share a passion for books, good food, and knitting), I’d love to discuss the latest book with someone.

At this point, what I’m taking away from this article and the comments is that A) there are social people, semi-social people, and introverts who are atheist; B) there are wealthy people, middle income people, and poor people who are atheist; C) there are people who like to organize thing and people who prefer to sit back and wait for something to be organized, be it because they are busy or are introverts; D) there are people who want to hang with other self-identified atheists and there are people who don’t care what label their associates adopt for themselves; and E) there is a mix of all of these types of atheist people who read this blog and comment.

Good to know we are a well-rounded group! 

Amanda, I hope you find a group you like that does things you like for little to no cost.  I’m sure there are others near you who are looking for the same thing but unless someone is willing to organize the group, you may be out of luck.

“Because they’re telling us that we should. If the OP wants to set up atheist lindy-hopping, then good luck to her. But she’s not doing that – she’s saying the the rest of the community have failed her because we didn’t.”

Where in the piece did I assert that I needed an atheist swing dance club? Nowhere at all.

The point is that the restrictive nature of the events in my area (the fact that most groups require a cover charge for events or meet at nice restaurants or bars) means that, for a long time, I couldn’t go at all, because I didn’t have to means to do so.

Even if I wanted an atheist swing dance group, I couldn’t go to the most likely spaces in order to drum up interest. 

It’s not about being able to accommodate 100% of the population 100% of the time. It’s about recognizing and responding to the fact that staging atheists meetups in this way (though not all! I’m super heartened to hear about all of the free, cheap and family friendly events in the comments; I wish there were more in my area) excludes a pretty large swatch of potential members. 

There’s nothing wrong with pub nights. There’s something wrong when the ONLY thing going down is pub nights. 

…and yet we wonder why we are still struggling to get more diversity. Do we REALLY care, or is it just a convenient topic to discuss at pub night?

If you’re in the DC area, we have events all throughout the month (see my comment above): 
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/dc/events/

I know there’s some other groups nearer to Richmond however.

There can be a bit of a double edge to it in my experience.  While you are rarely envagelised at, it takes more effort to get out and meet people, and more effort to actually make close friends without the deep social links that religion can provide.  If you’re a private person anyway, it’s fine, but if you really like socializing and getting to know new people, there aren’t as many guarantees as in a religious society.
Personally, I love it.  I’m outgoing enough to get attention, if I need it.  Not everybody is.

I really feel for many of my fellow American atheists. 

 Even when I lived in more conservative areas of California, religion was not really worn on peoples’ sleeves unless you were dating a daughter from a conservative christian family.  Where I live now, it’s extemely rare that it’s an issue at all, and if somebody starts making a “jesus scene” in public, even the other christians are embarrassed.  We have a shit-ton of churches per capita, but they’re all half empty and only a few people take church into daily life.  There are all of TWO christian crackpots who are always getting their letters to the editor published, and they are nothing but an embarrassing laughingstock.

Between my girlfriend of 15 years, my dog, and a few close friends, I have just about all the social life I need, and most public social events have no religious component at all.  I even go to a free theatre “open mic” event once a month and play my crappy little anti-religious songs in front of 80-100 other theatre fans(some of them UU’s or similarly liberal believers) and even though I can barely play and I often get a bit irreverent and even insulting with my lyrics, I get a lot more applause and compliments than anything else.  The ones who don’t like it just shut up and deal. 

However- unlike a lot of people who have had similarly secular lives in California, or New York, or big city areas, I realize that many, many places in the U.S. are not nearly as accepting.  I’ve travelled a bit and I have friends and family in the midwest and south, and southwest….almost all of them either eventually turned religious or have much more limited social lives as a result.  Some of them outright depend on their churches for social connections, services and friends.  Most of the mainstream public events have a religious component, and you often just cannot get away from the preaching and evengelism unless you only go to Marilyn Manson concerts or other counter-culture type things, or go to the movies by yourself.  It’s sad, disappointing, and unnecessary, but there it is. 

My point is….It’s really annoying to keep hearing clueless jackass atheists yammering on about “Quit trying to make atheism a religion!!!”  “Just go hiking, DUH!!!”  Not all atheists live in secular strongholds.  Not all atheists make good money or have lots of free time.  Not all atheists have even the basic social support they need.  Not all atheists are happy with a small to non-existent social circle. Not all atheists-raised kids have enough friends and secular-friendly events to go to. 

In some areas, getting ANY event to be more-or-less secular can be a challenge, and finding like-minded people can be extremely difficult.  Not everyone is as good at making friends as I am.  Many are poor like me.  Many have WAY more responsibilities than I do.  While I hope that more will try to get out and organize something themselves, and realize that “the movement” can’t do everything for everyone, we can at least try to be helpful instead of dismissive, and realize that some of us have it much, much easier than others.  I’m poor and don’t even have a car, but in many ways I’m still MUCH better off than middle-class atheists in
in highly religious, conservative areas.  So I try not to be a jerk about it.

Peace, and good luck to all you non-believers trying not to choke on the fumes of  a hyper-religious society.  If I come up with any brilliant ideas, I’ll certainly try to share.  As some of the more helpful commenters have suggested, you’ll probably have to do most of the work yourselves, and it IS doable…but at least the online community should be trying to give good ideas and share successful strategies, not give dismissive advice that doesn’t apply at all.         

My group, Michiana Skeptics, has adopted a trail. We clean that twice a month. No fees/costs. Also, usually once a month we’ll reserve a room at the library (free) and someone will lead a discussion.

I really do think that you have good ideas and are trying to help.  Sometimes there is simply no substitute for personal effort, and if nobody can come to the rescue you have to save yourself.  At the same time, money and other basic resources like transportation are very serious roadblocks sometimes- more so, I think, than many people realize.  I’m lucky to live in an area rich with parks, beaches, busses, nice weather year-round, and tolerant people. 

If I had to live this same life, with the same income, in one of the more poor, limited, and conservative towns just a couple hours away from me, I would be going crazy and planning escape, not looking to host events.

If there was ever a town that could use an atheist potluck…..congratulations!  I was pretty miserable there 20 years ago.  A few good punk/metal shows and a coffeehouse or two was about the limit of the “cool” places.  Well done!

One funny reversal….I live in a place where maybe half to two thirds are slightly religious, yet many or most don’t care too much about it or go to church, and there are damn near no fundies.  There aren’t really many “out” atheists, humanists, or secular activists either, because we don’t have the social problems caused by excessive religion.  The end result….it’s good and tolerant, yet a little…boring sometimes.  Interesting conversations are often quietly suppressed by politeness.  Almost nobody is really much of a humanist, few people care about the culture of the country at large, and even though I have lots of christian friends, I’M the asshole if I talk about beliefs, since none of them really do either!  Even though there are religious nuts by the millions in California, and it DOES affect the culture, it’s not a serious issue where I live, so I look like the zealot when I bring up religion, or humanism, or even sometimes just science education and the threats it faces! 

That’s funny, I’ve never been much for “flocking”, I was never even comfortable in church or in a religion, yet I can still see the value in social groups that share basic philosophical worldviews, or that stand in opposition to the harms of other, larger systems.

I’ve never felt like I was “replacing” anything, yet I would still like to go to a conference, or a secular meet-up, just to talk about lif and the world, face-to-face, with other like minded people.   I would even go to a diverse meet-up with religious folks in attendance, if honest friendly discussion were at the forefront. 

Some people like other people but don’t want to limit themselves to a church or a knitting club or a very narrow purpose. Some people like talking with other people about issues of mutual concern.  Some people find great life benefits in such groups.

Why this is such a surprise, and why there is so much resistance to using atheism or secularism as a starting point, I do not understand.    

That is awesome.  Good for you and your kids!

 I am coming up to see PZ Myers next weekend!  I do appreciate that event being so inexpensive, thus making the tank of gas to get to and from DC affordable.

I feel that….I could realistically just find a stray dog for companionship, move to a mountaintop, and be content until I got old and died….but sometimes I still want just at least a good conversation.  As content as I am with my own thoughts, if there was a cool meet-up group near me, I would at least check it out for shits and giggles. 

I understand your concerns, but I would assume that you have at least say, surfed the web a bit, made a phone call or two, and maybe sent an inquiring email or two?  All of my old friends have kids now…I know how precious their time is and I respect that.  But if you can’t be bothered to do a tiny amount of searching and questioning locally, then honestly, you’re asking for everything to be done for you when it sounds like you wouldn’t even bother to show up anyway.

I’m not trying to attack you or dismiss your concerns…but they can’t help you out if they don’t know you’re there, and they can’t just load up your couch into the back of a truck and take you there.  At the very least, you might have to make a little noise if you are really interested.  Every atheist/secular/science/astronomy/ even theater group I’ve ever contacted tries their best to be accomodating.  It’s part of the job of spreading one’s interests. 

As a person who really has very little need for community of ANY kind….I really don’t understand why Ewan and so many others are having such a hard time getting the concept.
Even if the US were not soaking in religion to annoying and unhealthy levels, even if there were truly”secular” clubs of all kinds by default in every single community in America, why would it be so bad, or unusual for people of a generally  like philosophy to want to get together and talk?  Why do so many atheists think that this somehow becomes an atheist “church”, or that the desire is somehow irrational? 

There is no dogma, no sacred text, no sacred rules, no supernatural beliefs, no permanently applied moral code…it’s NOT a “secular church”.  Just because such a group could help take over a bit of the social support and network of a church, does not make it a church….it is churches that glommed onto existing societies, and took over those things that ALL societies do.  What is so freaking odd about atheists wanting to be around, talk to, learn about, help, or be helped by other atheists?  Why does that need a special justification that other groups do not?Also, there is nothing weird or pointless about wanting an “atheist” or “secular” group of ANY kind.  Especially in a country overrun with religious options.  Maybe I want to be able to really talk about related philosophical issues in my book club…but can’t, because most of the members are already committed religious believers who don’t like to debate anything.  Maybe I want  truly “secular” events for my kids, instead of letting them get hammered with religious marketing all the time.  Maybe I want to push secularism itself in politics, but the exisiting local political groups are all heavily religious.  These issues do not exist in a fucking vacuum!

And even if atheism is eventually the norm, and secularism is fully respected in America, wanting to link a bit of one’s philosophies or worldviews to one’s hobbies and daily fun is NOT all that unusual.  Democrats, republicans, feminists, christians….people do this ALL THE TIME for a variety of reasons.  Why on earth would it be weird or unnecessary for atheists, secularists, or freethinkers to do it, especially when we are a minority? 
 
I honestly think that most of the confusion stems from a kind of faux-individualism related to the assumptions that “atheism” should never relate to any other aspect of a person’s life(dictionary atheists), or that athiests should be “beyond” such primitive “churchy”, “follower” behavior(asshole atheists).     I could be wrong and I hope I am. 

Nice article, BTW!

May depend on your location and the environment, but I’ve never needed a specific atheist group that I couldn’t get online. I like the issues and the blogs and the articles and forums where I can ask questions pertinent to atheism, but maybe because I grew up without religion or grew up in an area where it doesn’t seem like on the outside that religious belonging is a great deal. If you are isolated and looking for like minds and attracting others, if that’s what you want to do, I don’t see it as any different from another club or class or group someone wants to join. I also don’t know what you’d talk about – I assume it’s not just hey, isn’t being an atheist great? but similar issues as brought up on the blogs; starting a charity; renting a billboard so other atheists know they aren’t alone. Seems like it would have to be activist in some way, and not just a “free” time to not be bombarded by religion.

However, I was thinking upthread and almost responded. I remember a group for gay men where I used to live. I worked at a live theatre so I was tasked with marketing this group and hadn’t thought of it like this before – basically they do join a group with like-minded people but effectively splinter off and do other interesting things as part of their group that aren’t activism or support. So in this instance, they might sign up and go as a group to see a play.

Atheists might create or join a similar group to make friends to go together on other activities that are neither activism nor support, where otherwise one might feel isolated or alienated from the mainstream environment of taking a class or doing a certain activity. I don’t live somewhere people ask right up front what church do I go to or what religion am I, but if one does live in such a place and has been intimidated and shunned from normal hobbies or groups due to that, joining an atheist group in order to make normal social participation more comfortable by making friends who also might want to go, and if nobody else wants to be your friend because you don’t go to church, you already have something in common with someone – “hey, I wanted to take a fiction writing class” or “wine tour” or “bicycle race” with your new atheist friends. It is not a bad idea. I don’t know that making a group of atheists has to always be petitions and serious issues. You just want to make friends who aren’t religious.

In my mind, I am thinking of an atheist group that meets and gets to know each other and then participates in small or large numbers in regular community offerings. So the atheist group isn’t the book club, but if some want to join a book club, they can go together. The atheist group isn’t a bowling league, but they can put one together for a tournament. They find out what’s going on and find others to go with them. I have never had the urge to go to an atheist conference about specific atheist issues. I’m online and I see what’s going on and I communicate on blogs/forums. I don’t live somewhere where it’s intimidating to join a club or class by yourself and be grilled by the regulars about your religious beliefs, but I can imagine in places where that happens, it might be nice just to have a club of atheist activity buddies, and it’s not like you wouldn’t also have your serious issues, charities, awareness, and fundraisers, or group picnics or pub nights either. I don’t picture a meet-up like “church” as in, this is all we do at meetings, we meet and then we go home. I picture people making friends and allies similar to how, for example, parents of all the kids at one school might have a picnic as a group and in between times, set up play dates or meet for book club or yoga on a smaller scale, the kind of people you might ask around if anyone wants to try kayaking with you or knitting or coin collecting or race-walking. I think a lot of people want to join something fun but they feel more confident if a friend they already know goes with them when they do. So in this case it would be atheists, someone you already have met and like and want to be friends with, doing stuff.

So will Dawkins be the founder of a new religion?

Oh, I forgot that religion is the reason why the glass is half empty and not why there is any water at all.

Ha! Someone like- minded? I wonder why people without religious affiliation who have so much time and think of themselves as humanist(and I don’t know what that means when some atheists feel they are no higher than animals) not donate some free time to non- religious welfare organizations. They can socialize with the like-minded which is obviously a main aim.

Oh, maybe I am wrong, the leaders want this to be a movement.

Quantum mechanics and relatively are both theories if I know what I am talking about. What has that to do with religion unless you believe there is intelligence that created them or they came about by themselves.

Please come back when you have something substantive to say. Troll.

You’ve hit on the #1 reason why I can’t be as engaged in the movements to the degree(read ANY) that I would like. I live in the Seattle area and would love to attend a event not too far away in Oregon but with struggling just to make it every day. There is no practical way I could. And while atheism lies at the root of the involvement. The practical issues of worries over our economic, moral and political future as a nation branch out from those roots.

Dogs have owners, cats have staff.

Ah. I just read a further comment of yours below, and I think I might have misread your comment here, Darrell. I thought you were speaking as a member, but now I believe this comment comes from the perspective of an organizer, perhaps.

This is an excellent post, very well articulated, and something I’m trying to work on in my efforts to start the Northeast Ohio Humanists group. I do, however, have some questions/comments.

The post started out as if Amanda wanted to be involved in activism for the Atheist cause, which I would presume would include removing religion from government and schools, working against discrimination of Atheists or non-religious people, and other separation of church and state and civil rights issues. There are several inexpensive/free events or organizations that need volunteers to help spread the word. Some include Humanist/Atheist/Freethinker organizations, but there are political candidates and other organizations as well, like the American Humanist Association, the Southern Poverty Law Center, the ACLU, etc. But the post seemed to shift gears towards social needs that aren’t filled by the Atheist organizations: food for new parents, help transporting children, picnics, movie screenings, book clubs (ok, I added the book clubs, because I would enjoy that!). Those are needs that are often filled by members of a church congregation or parish, which as atheists, we obviously lack. I, too, would like to have a social network that is there for my family and me. However, to expect that is perhaps to confuse what atheism with a religion; it is not. That is not to say that there can’t be groups and organizations that provide a sense of community for like minded people; I would love to have that and is why I’m trying to work towards that in the Cleveland area. I know a few atheists, my brother among them, who don’t believe anything like an Atheist Church should exist; he fears it could grow to be just as dogmatic as religion has become. Additionally, while followers of a religion often have a similar world view, atheists are less so, which could make it difficult for such an organization to thrive. I, on the other hand, long for this human connection and interaction, and for my family to have similar interaction with people who believe the way my wife and I do. The Humanist Society provides some of this in training and managing of Humanist Celebrants to preside over traditionally religious ceremonies like weddings, funerals, and baby-naming ceremonies. This is a good start.

The solution to Amanda’s concern is not to “deconvert”, which implies going back to religion/church to fill the void she feels. Instead, it is to become involved in a local Humanist/Freethinkers/Atheist organization and make it what you want it to be. Steer the group through leadership positions or by voicing these desires. I assure you that you’re not the only one out there who wants this camaraderie with like-minded people. These groups are what their members want them to be, and can fill different needs for different people. If to this point your local atheist group is more into meeting at expensive bars to reiterate what we already believe, or don’t believe, then suggest the next meeting a family picnic at a local park. Suggest starting a different account for gifts for birthdays, when a member becomes a parent. If they are not open to that, start another group that is. Having atheist organizations that provide this goal is important for our membership, but it will also serve the advance of atheist and Humanist values just by its members being an example to others and making other aware that there are alternatives to religion and churches that will meet social needs.

Thanks, Amanda, for the post. It was, as you can tell, thought provoking!

Yes, atheism is expensive –at least for me, a SS widow in her mid-70s. The only conference I ever attend is the one held in Madison, WI, I believe every 3 years. I save like mad from conference to conference so I can drive myself there, afford the hotel room, eat modestly over that anticipated weekend. Because of my age, I’m not interested in “fun” things – I can do those with acquaintances who are also quasi-Christians, gungho Christians, etc.  if my loneliness comes to the point of being unbearable. I need companionship with freethinkers with whom I can meet for coffee or lunch once in a while and speak openly about my atheism, what I’m reading, questions I have, etc.

amanda do I ever agree…I moved back to MN to take care of my parents (both have terminal cancer) and they are very religious.  I have not attend none of the atheist groups becuase it means a ride up to the Twin Cities and then spend more money on food and drink.  All the support groups in the area are religious based for people dealing with dying family members.  Its very frustrating listening to the bullshit and when they pass the bullshit is going to be worse.  Where do I go and what do I do???????????????????????????????????

That is all well and good for you but when every event opens and closes with a prayer and most downtime is conversation about the latest sermon at your church it becomes alienating even if you were accepted.

Now I can’t be part of a group at all, I run a small business and being known as the local heathen satan-worshipping antichrist would lose me 3 of my biggest clients which account for 2/3 of my yearly income.

As for meetup, between the tab and gas, driving 90min 1 way to go to a bar for an hour is not in my budget.

Missed the point, indeed!  Then they look at you like you’re a space alien when you try to explain to them that you don’t go to church, period. 

Churches have an unfair advantage over us. They are able to build tax free structures where they can meet (tax free) and enjoy “fellowhip.” They might have pot lucks, women or men fellowship, youth groups. All free and clear of the money we have to spend for meeting places. Perhaps we should pursue a tax free status and start opening atheist centers around the country and world. It seems only fair. 

Yeah absolutely! but it really depends on the size of the organisation. It doesn’t have to be big and certainly not to start with. When I was a kid my mother was in a a young mothers group where we’re all go once a month to play with the other kids and the mothers could chat and socialise with each other. The amount of work to run such a group amounts to putting out a plate of biscuits. 

This is the sort of group that could cater to the emotional and social needs of athiests. Organising the occasional activity when there’s a small group of you is not difficult when you can share the work. This is the sort of group I have in mind when I say start a group. 

There’s potential for these small groups to coalesce as more and more form but it never has to be bigger or more work than you want it to be.