Romney Ad Accuses Obama of Declaring War on Religion

I know we have our own problems but I see stuff like this and I am *so* glad I am not American. Even if Harper is an idiot (and he is) he is nowhere near the scale of idiot as a Romney. To think that it’s even conceivable that anyone in their right mind would vote for that guy – let alone half the population of a powerful nation –  is more than just a little scary.

So glad I’m demonized for being atheist, and depicted as a communist

“My body.  My choice.  Your money.”  – Sandra Fluke

Of course, her testimony was actually about prevention of ovarian cancer with hormone treatment, but whatever. Carry on, Nordog.

Cute use of quotes, BTW.

Yup. Just like everyone else takes care of your body monetarily. You know, through taxes and insurance pools. It’s pathetic that you only care when women’s reproductive rights are involved. 

Thankfully, your “moral outrage” is only shared by a small group. 

Yes! Every hospital should ban sluts at the door.

Obama using a liar to say that Romney killed his wife is an example of disgusting. At least this one is true.

Using your logic why don’t we buy your food and drinks too because it goes into your body.

Harper is no idiot. He’s a controlling, greedy, sexist, racist, power grabbing, propagandist smear of slime whom I happen to loathe with the heat of a thousand suns, but he’s not stupid.

Related to the comparison between the two, I don’t see much to choose between them. However, unlike Romney, he treats his pets well (he loves cats), but he doesn’t extend that care to the ducks drowned in the tar sands or the marine life of the Pacific that would be threatened by oil tankers being allowed near Haida Gwaii.

When churches pay their taxes and stop leeching off the rest of us maybe I’ll take their whining a little more seriously.  Until then they need to stop crying about how MY money is used.  If I can’t dictate that my tax money can’t be used to prop up churches, why should employers who happen to be religious be allowed to whine because they’re required to follow the same laws as every other business/organization?

Free will buddy. My body, your money. Oh dear, it’s starting to sound like…….?

Which is why churches and religious organizations strictly for worship are not being limited by this mandate. The mandate goes for organizations that are primarily healthcare providers (hospitals, clinics, the like) and religious as a secondary purpose. Hospitals still have to meet federal requirements in order to operate, and this healthcare mandate is merely a change to the requirements. If someone doesn’t like providing some forms of preventative care, they are more than welcome to exit the healthcare sector.

You think that’s scary? Imagine actually living in “this great country.” And the worst bit is all of the people who I know that disagree with the religious right, but don’t want to get involved. “We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim.” -Elie Weisel

(Although to call atheists victims is hardly apt… But the quote fits otherwise.)

Oh, absolutely not. Romneycare is different, because it isn’t a federal project. Were every state to enact a Romneycare thing, it would be quite alright… /sarcasm
The problem is that so goddamned many people don’t bother to check the history of their candidate. Oh, and the other problem is that Romney has mostly just been saying “Trustmetrustmetrustmetrustmeobamasasocialisttrustmetrustme” and keeping any of his current views/policies under wraps. And people listen. Thats another issue.

If you weren’t so obnoxious that statement would be amusing.  Christians are simply not oppressed in the USA.   If you want a theocracy move to Iran or Saudi Arabia. 

Yeah, those 220,000 plus churches have been shut down with armed guards standing watch so no one tries to get in. Fucking shit stain trolls.

Obama used a man in an ad that said when Bain closed a plant he lost his insurance and his wife who had cancer died. Proven to be false. She still had insurance for two years until she was injured on the job. Obama has tried to say the campaign didn’t do this because the ad was from a PAC, but the same guy told the same story in a campaign conference call in may.

Why so kind, Margaret? This one deserves “self-centered misogynist” as a descriptor.

Side note: Am I the only one frustrated with the Religious Right’s hijacking of the word “values”?

No, you’re not. I’m constantly annoyed by the way the RR uses terms like values, family, marriage, morality, and patriotism, seemingly to imply that they invented these concepts, that they’ve cornered the market on these things, and that they have a copyright on them. 

I’m also annoyed by their behaving as if they own the month of December.
 

Ken, apparently your brilliance has blinded you to the distinction between giving something away, and having it confiscated. 

Pardon the pun, but apparently that distinction is beyone your ken.

Give it up. You’re arguing with a pathological liar

The Religious Right not getting their way isn’t attacking their religious beliefs. They can moan and cry and complain that their beliefs are getting trampled on because they can’t deny people reproductive rights or the right to marry. That is not an attack. Where does it say that religious freedom means forcing people to conform to what you believe, even if they are Christian and their god “believes” the opposite that your god does? 

If you want to know what an attack of religious belief is, go travel to Saudi Arabia and proclaim that you are a Christian. See what happens. 

 Are you so ignorant of the female anatomy that you think birth control pills are only for sleeping around?

I’m gay and even I know better.

So, when did Bobout185 claim to be a martyr? Does the ad not demonize atheists? Does it not say they are communists?

So glad you think you are a martyr. Give you the drive to go on doing your thing doesn’t it?

Says the guy who just complained of atheists “imposing him their views”.

Economically, if each pay for their own lifestyle choice, scare resources could be allocated to other more productive and urgent needs.

So, that right. Spend, spend and spend more. No need to draw the lines. If I am an unmarried mother with five children out of wed lock, the state should pay. Borrow more .

The really rich don’t pay full taxes. There are plenty of loopholes. It ‘s the middle and upper middle classes who pay full taxes. Misallocated taxes is not a form of theft?

I find it particularly amusing how “RW Christian types” forget that Romney is a Mormon. He believes that his church is the “only true Christian church” and all others are invalid. If you are a mainstream Christian, he will always be looking down his nose at you, with an attitude of theological superiority. Mormons really do think they are *better* than you.

 Sorry, he’s right.
It made all the major news outlets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slR_1s7hRho

 Who said anything about promiscuity?  Not that it’s anyone’s business.
(Why is sex such a huge issue with religious people?)
 I was on oral contraception for ten years of marriage as re MANY women who work and have health insurance.
 
What if we didn’t want to pay for health insurance for people who eat too much and develop high blood pressure, diabetes, joint problems when it’s THEIR doing?

What about judging women who choose to have multiple pregnancies and have complications?

Are those denials okay if I say it’s against a religion?

 Exactly.
I have said it until I am blue in the face that we can’t help that we ovulate! 
But, hey, let’s pay for Viagra (The VA does!) so men can ejaculate even more!

 She wanted to be able to choose to buy insurance that covers contraception. See that word “buy”?

This just shows the unstated, but ever-present, syllogism which lies behind everything that religionists say and do:

1) I have certain religious beliefs, and am entitled to follow them by virtue of America’s religious freedom.

2) One of those beliefs, is that everyone … regardless of what s/he might personally believe … must follow my beliefs nonetheless.

3) Thus, my religious freedom entitles me to impose my beliefs on everyone.

4) Anyone who thwarts me in my effort to force everyone to live the way I want them to live, is therefore taking away my religious freedom and is attacking my religion.

Contrary to this axiomatic reasoning, “religious freedom” does not entitle a believer to control everyone. An individual’s religious freedom begins and ends with him/her. An institution’s religious freedom begins and ends with that institution’s personnel. Period.

It’s time we all understood this deluded thinking and started dealing with it. Stating overtly that preventing religionists from controlling other people is not a violation of their religious freedom, would be a great place to start.

Just tell me whose reproductive rights are being denied? Nobody has said anyone else can’t use birth control, those that oppose it for religious reasons simply don’t want to be forced by the government to pay for it.

Could not attach the link from my I pad. Despite Steve’s comment Mary is right. It is all over the news. Google false Obama cancer ad. Even the Obama supporting CNN has blasted it as being blatantly false

The birth control mandate is not income based so food stamps are irrelevant but it interesting to note that under Obama those that use them and welfare has grown tremendously.

Because government never bans religious practices like polygamy or presses charges against Christian scientist families who let their kids suffer because they believe in faith healing, right? And they allow Muslims to commit honor killings all the time, correct?

Because apparently religious freedom is supposed to mean “ignore the law of the land and do whatever the fuck you want.”

In other posts, people have said that ’em’ tags format properly, while ‘i’ tags do not (presumably because the ‘i’ tag has long been deprecated). Since you are logged in, you should be able to edit your original post to try it.

Don’t even get me started on Viagra!

I’m so sick of misogynistic men worrying about what I do with my body!  I don’t care if I am a slut, I should be afforded the opportunity to get birth control.

They don’t want birth control and yet they are the same people who bitch about women having too many kids while they are on welfare.  Make up your fucking mind or shut up!

Better check the OP I think you might be ranting on the wrong page.

So exactly where in the ad does anyone mention atheism or call atheists communists?

But they aren’t are they, it’s a benefit, the employees are paying for it with their labour. If they dont like employees using their benefits for contraception they shouldn’t be offering benefits.

Christians who you hate so much lead the world in giving to the poor and providing for the needy and sick. By margins over atheists that it is pathetic. If you have to go to the hospital good luck finding a secular one. My bet is you will be taken to a Methodist, baptist, or catholic hospital and you will be thankful Christians followed their teachings. Or if you are an orphan in Africa try finding an atheist orphanage. Good luck with that.

The co-opting of values by the right has pissed me off for some time. I’ll tell you when it really got to me, and this is a bit off topic, but nevertheless – I’d known since I was probably twenty exactly how the Boy Scouts felt about gay scouts and leaders. Sadly, at that time I agreed with them. It wasn’t long after that that I learned how very wrong we were.  But I hadn’t heard much about efforts to get them to change, and a few years back I got my official National Eagle Scout Association magazine, and it had something in it about a new book being put out by the BSA about “Values”. I started looking around and realized that the BSA was using “values” exactly the way the right does, and that they were doing it as a conscious message to the religious right: “You’re at home here, we think like you and talk like you, don’t worry, you won’t find us listening to the left or ever accepting gays”. No, they didn’t say those words, but they were sending that dog whistle message. That began my disillusionment from the BSA. So yeah, these people think they own family values, and values. they don’t. The values I learned in scouting and practice in my family revolve around kindness and honesty, two things that seem absent from the Religious Right.

Actually, your presentation was about birth control and contraception.  She then mentioned the non contraceptive uses of prescription contraception.

However, non contraceptive use of something is NOT contraception or birth control.

All this misses the bigger point.  Employers should be forced to pay for someone else’s health care, and until recently, none had been.

In this country, the Constitution defines the bounds of religion, not the other way around.

Defending the Constitution does not constitute an attack on religion. On the other hand, anybody who believes that religious businesses  should be allowed to operate under different rules than secular ones is standing totally at odds with the Constitution.

If Obama has declared war on religion (which is a pretty absurd claim), Romney has declared war on the Constitution, and that’s far, far worse.

 He did get another job–at 32% of his former salary. He went from making $46,000 to $15,000.

And my original point still stands: if the plant never closed, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Also, Obama was never the CEO and sole shareholder of GM.

p.s. to Donalbain: My bad, I know it’s a PAC ad, but I was hasty.

So it’s ok to promote the use of an illegal substance?

Small group? 76% is not a small group.

 Her are a few more facts for you- Romney left Bain in 199, the plant was closed in 2001, His wife was diagnosed with cancer in 2006 and does 22 days later because of its advanced state. 

The ad is a deliberate lie and despite it being a pac ad, Obama has used this very same guy in a campaign conference call in May of this year to tell the same story. 

I can’t wait for the nihilistic rebuttals now.

Sorry couldn’t make it far enough past the racist bullshit to get to the religious bullshit.

Of course, that glosses over the fact that while Romney “left” Bain in 1999, he was legally (and from some significant evidence, actually) still the CEO and primary stockholder well into 2001. He certainly drew a salary from Bain during that period, and participated in some functional decisions past the claimed 1999 date.

Honestly I don’t know why it is so hard for Obama supporters to admit it is, at best, a misleading ad. On the other hand, Romney’s team has laid some really unbelievable stinkers of the pants-on-fire variety so far too. Instead of that tu quoque indicating that both sides are employing tactics that cheapen the discourse and disgrace the office they’re competing for, it becomes an inane conversation about how “my side” is blameless because of technicality XYZ, while “your side” is the worst thing to happen to American electoral politics since Elbridge Gerry drew lines on a map.

And, for what it’s worth, I really don’t endorse a strict equivalence based on the tu quoque, either. So far, the mendacity of the Romney campaign easily outstrips the Obama campaign, even as they have started to go dirty. It is a dangerous strategy for Romney supporters to start crowing about how “Obama lied” (or, more accurately, a PAC supporting Obama lied), considering they’ve been, on the whole, far worse. Neither side should get out of jail free on this sort of thing, but seriously check the mote in thine own eye first.

Can water, in a high enough dose, act as a poison? Yes.

If one goes around preferentially calling water a poison, are they being ridiculous? Yes.

Agreed.  But then again, I didn’t say “theft” or “steal”, rather I said “confiscate” which is an accurate term to describe even low and proper levels of taxation.  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/confiscate

I don’t have a sperm supply.

Trust me, I bitch about women having too many kids on government help ALL the time.  I was using it as a point.  If we offer birth control for these women, the problem will possibly lessen.

 The money a business takes in comes from the labor of employees, not the ‘job creator’ who sits at the top of the pyramid and takes the $$$ while doing less work. Given that workers are creating this wealth through their labor, they ought to have a say in what type of health care they get. If it’s a conflict between worker and employer, I’m always going to side with the worker.

I would hope that employees of organizations that want to not offer contraceptive coverage would all go on strike and refuse to work until they get it. If a workplace was what it should be – a democratic regime where everybody gets a say, this wouldn’t be an issue.

And quit with the bullshit that you can’t promote your religion. I can’t go anywhere without some jackass promoting his religion in my face or banging on my door to promote his religion on a Saturday morning, or tracts left everyplace I go.

Religious expression is limited when the state has a compelling reason to limit it, such as criminal laws for example.  However, the reason must be a compelling state reason and the limits must be narrowly written to not put an undue burden on the religious organization. In other words, accommodations are made to protect religious freedom. 

Actually, as an employer paying for insurance, the employer does have the right to say what they will pay for and what they won’t.  If you don’t like it, get a job elsewhere or start your own business, put  your own money and capital at risk and do things as your conscious dictates.

Complaining that a black man has an anti-slavery mindset isn’t racist? I guess not beneath the rock you live under, and like I said I didn’t read the examples, I couldn’t get past the racism.

“basically you’re a liar and a bigot” When all your arguments fail there’s always ad hominem to fall back on.

…Says the misnamed “Agnostic” who can’t seem to stop hanging out on an atheist site.

 Yeah, we know.   Your religious beliefs demand you be allowed to do whatever you want to anyone with impunity, and never be challenged or criticized in any way because that would be “religious persecution”.

You’re pathologically selfish and odious.

 Let me know when the FFRF or AU demand the right to disobey laws others have to obey by citing their “deeply held non-belief”.  Until then you have no point.

 Let me guess–you know what  the “more productive and urgent needs” are, right?

Margaret, everything you just accused religious hospitals of doing is complete bullshit.  Now, you might be able to make the “emergency contraception” charge stick, but that’s because Christians think that in the case of violent rape it’s not the baby who needs killin’.

But all the other stuff is bullshit.

In fact, Catholic teaching specifically addresses the subject of ectopic pregnancies and why saving the life of the mother is the appropriate thing to do despite the loss of the babies life.
Did you know that?

In fact Catholic teaching allows for non-contraceptive uses of contraceptive drugs for conditions such as those cited by Sandra Fluke in her infamous testimony.

Catholic health care was up front in treating AIDS patients back in the early days when most people would run in horror.

Also, I work in health care; in a hospital.  I don’t know of anyone denied visitation because Catholics don’t recognize gay marriage.  Catholics don’t have to recognize gay marriage to recognize a close relationship.

Where are all these cases of people being denied visitation by hospitals because Christians reject gay marriage?

So we are left with the fact that despite all the good Christian hospitals do you would want to see it all go away because of some type of fatal ideological purity regrading “emergency contraception”.

Forget about all the lives saved or all the lives brought into the world, you would wipe that all away over one issue.

You are blinded by your hatred and bigotry.

Well, it must be true if it’s on the world wide interwebz.
 
I still call bullshit.

Bullshit.

 Typical response when a religious person is presented actual evidence.  Stick your fingers in your ears and go “la la la la”.   Pathetic.

There is another huge difference. Ordinary non-profits need to open their books and prove their status. Churches don’t. Their books are top secret. Which means many of them are run as tax-exempt for-profit businesses.

But your employer does have the right to determine what insurance they will pay for. If you do not like the benefit package offered by your employer then find a different job.

No, the Constitution defines the bounds of the government, and “free exercise of religion” means that the government can’t order people to do things their religion says are wrong.

First, His name is Jesus and He is the Son of the Living God.  You WILL show Him respect before you DARE criticize any supposed hypocrisy on the part of Christians.

Second, while He did command us to feed the hungry and care for the sick, it is NEVER licit to use evil means to do those things, nor can we subordinate obeying Him to fulfilling those works of mercy.  That means we cannot murder one person to use their organs to heal ten sick people, nor feed the hungry using robbery.  Neither can we keep hospitals open if administering contraceptives, abortions, sterilizations or drugs intended to kill is a condition of doing so.

If unbelievers were demanding to receive the Eucharist without converting, we’d be harping on the integrity of the Eucharist to defend the Eucharist from sacrilege.  So too with sex, which is also holy, though not as sacred as the Eucharist (you don’t get more sacred than receiving the Living God into your body).

Re: “Who is imposing?”

You are. And you described precisely how you plan to go about it:

Re: “We can’t stop you from obtaining contraception, but we most certainly have the right to say, “We will not help you do this evil thing in any way shape or form.  We will not even tell you where you can find the drugs you seek.”

By throwing hurdles in people’s paths — which you explicitly just admitted you’re doing — you are, in fact, forcing them to overcome your own beliefs.

As for “participating” in things you’d rather people didn’t do … to f-ing bad. In a society such as ours, of which you are a part, you cannot avoid the possibility of becoming enmeshed in what you consider other people’s vile sins. This includes the possibility of having to pay for them. This fact is well established. Quakers, for instance, are pacifists. In the past some of them have tried to litigate the requirement that they pay taxes, some of which go to the Pentagon and thus fund military efforts. Court decisions have established, though, that Quakers do have to pay taxes, even if some of their tax money pays for warfare which is against their beliefs.

If the Quakers can be forced to pay for warfare … which they object to on religious grounds … then Catholics can be forced to pay for contraception. If you don’t like it, I suggest moving to some other country whose law is based on Catholic doctrine. The Vatican City is one such place. I don’t know if they’ll allow you to emigrate, but it would seem the proper place for you.

If all you’re going to contribute is mindless sycophancy, you might as well not bother.

1) Mary’s statement was general. 2) Contraception is not inherently about sex, as Mary was explaining. You’re not helping your case any by falsely claiming that “The left started it!”

Are you seriously drawing a comparison between a wafer and sex? I get that you group them together as sacraments, but for those of us not in your social club, those two things are night and day. Try a better analogy.

Showing someone their hypocrisy never requires respecting their views first. You can stop with your sanctimonious ALL CAPS-laden rants.

This is an equivocation, since what we mean by “contraception” is generally hormonal contraception that has multiple uses. We’re talking about the actual things being blocked, not the purpose for which they’re used. If I use a knife as a screwdriver, that doesn’t mean that I can no longer call it a knife or that I must say that I didn’t turn the screw but instead cut it.

And they don’t discriminate.

How could I forget the depth of your delusion.
You persecution complex is almost at the same level.

I didn’t say they had to provide health care. But they choose to do so (and it is in their best interest to have healthy employees). And regardless of individual people’s religious beliefs, they get to follow the same laws as everyone else.

And who’s demanding the right to disobey laws.

An unjust law is no law at all.

Margaret, stop the H8.  Start with yourself.

This just in, Atheists Attempt to Legislate Absolutism of Non-Theism as the Required Belief System for all Americans, reported by Onion News.

We are happy to introduce Gaballi! A faith based movement to save 30 – 70 % off your groceries. (  PRODUCTS OF USA – Locally grown ).Gaballi Dollar Store – The first online dollar store in the USA,Gaballi

You sound like a descendant of Glasofruix.

Vasectomies and tubal  tyings will solve the problem also. If you are on the govermnment payroll and have another child maybe it should become a crime. Educating them won’t solve the problem they think it’s an entitlement.

Seeing you are off topic may i ask you, would you allow your son to attend a BSA camp knowing three camp counselors are gay?  I don’t have a problem with gays, yet my son will never attend a camp with knowingly gay counselors. I just don’t trust them not getting excited about little mens backsides. The state I live in just recently convicted 2 gay counselors of groping little men.    

Hey NewEngland Bob, Flipflop Mitt as you call him Vetoed Romneycare as you call it. The leftist controlled Mass government senate and house overrode the veto.

Wow when you are hit with reality you all curl up and hide in a corner

My remark about December is a reference to something of which you might not be aware. Atheists who are familiar with the ridiculous posturing of “offense” that some Christians (not all) practice about atheist advertizing, particularly billboards, are familiar with some Christians’ demands that any public references to atheism should not be made during the month of December, because it’s “insensitive” to the Christmas season.  These atheist billboards are not necessarily directly contradicting Christmas per se, they’re simply call-outs to other atheists who are isolated and unaware that there are supportive groups who don’t condemn and despise them because of their lack of belief. Hence my figurative, not literal characterization of some Christians’ stance that they own the month of December.

No, I don’t partake in religious activities or quasi-religious activities during December, more than simply going along with the childish and materialistic lunacy to which almost everyone around me succumb.  However, even if I did take part in some level, I don’t understand your assertion that that would amount to hypocrisy.  Your remark smacks of the same attitude of privilege and ownership of the end of the year season, implying that unless I am as religious as you, I have no business taking any part in the activities, so I hope that I am misinterpreting you. 

Would you like some cheese with your whine?