State-Funded Christian School Rejects Three-Year-Old for Having Gay Parents

when will gays realize that anything to do with religion hates them, unless it is a progressive or open like uu’s or divercity gay catholics in boston. im bothered that so many folks dont realize just how mean conservatives and conservative christians can be, there is a whole history of their evils right here and across the globe, i assume most compare our fundies to say iran, so they can say:  “see they arent as bad as those in iran”, but if let to, they would. [ps im gay]

I’m bothered by that too.  It’s especially worrisome to me that so many atheists see churches as benign or even positive influences in society.  I don’t understand this at all since we’ve seen SO much evidence to the contrary. 

I really hope there’s some sort of investigation and the school is forced to repay all the public money (plus a penalty) it scammed from the government.

@ Hemant:

This is a serious question: are you gay or bisexual? 

I mean there has to be some type of personal motivation for your stridency on gay rights issues, especially since you claim to run a blog about atheism (apparently gay rights and lack of belief in gods are tantamount in your mind).

I’m straight.

Religion is the reason gay people don’t have equal rights. Even young religious people understand that. The more we can point out how these rights are being impeded by religious groups, the more reason people will have to leave their faith, I hope.

As a fund raising strategy religious organizations need a minority group they can ostracize and claim that they are a threat.  I guess historically they can also pick fights with other larger religious organizations but they have more to risk and lose.  Just like the mob it’s all about control and dollars.

Apparently gay rights and atheism and lack of belief in gods are mutually exclusive in your mind.

Corruption and vote buying are the usual reasons.

Christianity has gotten passive-aggressive behavior down to a science (well… if they actually believed in science, that is).

True that, and it isn’t restricted to Christianity. Most religions set very lofty (nigh unachievable) goals for personal behavior and social order. It would be one thing if those religions actually provided effective ethical and psychological tools to achieve those goals, but they don’t, and further the goals themselves are daunting. Saddling people with impossible personal goals encourages followers of those religions to turn their failures outwards towards others and lash out, which they can’t do overtly for fear of the charge of hypocrisy, so becomes very nastily passive-aggressive.

 This is a serious question. Are you obtuse or just a bigot?  I mean there has to be some type of personal deficiency for you to think a person has to belong to a particular minority group in order to care about their oppression, and to want to do something about it. 

 In my experience a large number of gays are atheist. Or black. Or women.  There is no room for exclusionary comments among any of us.

 I’m straight, too, Hemant, and I appreciate your coverage of gay rights issues. Thank you for helping us all stand together.

That’s why we also have so many feminism posts on an atheist blog.  Hemant is a woman!

Gay rights hasn’t been effected yet because of other’s religious beliefs. We believe that one religion shouldn’t dictate how the rest of us live.

In all serious, the idea of atheists fighting for the rights of homosexuals or any other minority shouldn’t be too surprising if you really think about it. Atheists are a minority themselves, quite often threatened and persecuted just like many others. Basically the reason many atheists care for the rights of other minorities is because we can empathize with them pretty easily.

  Why are we atheists? We don’t believe in god or find credible evidence
for god. But really because there are theists. Without theism, would I
need to define myself as an atheist?

Theists believe in god, but is that all they do? No. Who cares. How much could be said about that? They frame their
social behaviors in their theism, their belief in something imaginary,
are hateful, obnoxious, and dangerous. We have to live in this world
with them, using their theism to make laws and discriminate against
people – US – from words written in a book thousands of years ago, to
please this god who doesn’t exist. It’s irrational, and atheists point
this out, bring it up, discuss it, choose not to ignore it, and educate people the basis does not lie in reason. Why should we not discuss it everywhere and in everything that religion does to poison our society? It’s super of you to think homosexuals should just take care of their own thing and if there’s religious opposition to their rights and issues, that’s on them and not have anything to do with atheists? Some of whom are gay, most of whom are oppressed in other ways than mere theistic privilege but who they can marry and how much access they have to birth control, etc.; these issues affect all of us.

I was going to say because I’m a human being, but then I care about the rights of (other)animals and plants as well.

Call me a DNAist.

 Agreed, but I’m not going to do Mr. Mehta’s homework for him. If you don’t see an explanation from him of why the school received the money, it may be because it wouldn’t support the ire he was trying to raise.
I’m waiting to see if he has been intellectually honest.

Professional development activities may include: •  Improving the knowledge of teachers, principals, and other educational personnel in: ◊  One or more of the core academic subjects, and ◊  Effective instructional teaching strategies, methods, and skills. •  Training in integrating technology effectively into curricula and instruction. •  Training in how to teach students with different needs, including students with disabilities or limited English proficiency, and gifted and talented students. •  Training in methods of improving student behavior, identifying early and appropriate interventions, and involving parents more effectively in their children’s education. •  Leadership development and management training to improve the quality of principals and superintendents. •  Training in the use of data and assessments to improve instruction and student outcomes. Reminder: Title II Part A funds must never be paid directly to the private school. For detailed information, please refer to Section G of the Title II Part A Non-Regulatory Guidance http://www.ed.gov/programs/teacherqual/guidance.doc

http://www.k12.wa.us/TitleIIA/Program/pubdocs/PrivateSchoolsFlyerFY09.pdf 

This has happened several times before, but it’s usually Catholic schools for some reason.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/05/14/children-of-gay-parents-another-student-booted-from-catholic-sc

I honestly don’t care if private Christian schools want to discriminate against children of gay parents, but I’m outraged that this school (or any other religious school) is getting money from the government. Public money shouldn’t be going to schools that indoctrinate their students with religious beliefs, either benign ones like “Jesus loves all children” or hostile ones like “God doesn’t like people having two daddies.”

I really think it should be on their own dime. The more money Hope Christian School saves on faculty training, the more it can devote to indoctrinating students. I have no issue with the government providing free anti-bullying seminars or something similar, but public money shouldn’t be going to religious schools for any reason. They should be in charge of their own training and development. I don’t think the government should be in the business of trying to make sure they succeed. Let them succeed or fail on their own.

Well, there are strings attached, but it’s based on the usage of the money, not the institution in general.  Any school can apply, but from what I’ve read, I think it’s safe to say that the money has to be used for secular purposes.  Which is where I think I perhaps disagree with Anna.  She’s given me pause, but there are many other cases where religious organizations get federal money for secular charity work.

I do want to point out that a secular school is not the same thing as an atheist school.  ALL public schools are (supposed to be) secular.  I’m not aware of any private atheist schools, but if there are, then obviously they should have the same funding restrictions as any religious private school.

To say that unless you accept the same sex marriage beliefs you don’t get the money, you are changing the rules and getting Government involved in religion

I think see where you’re coming from, but where we’re going to disagree is on at what level can your discrimination be protected by your faith.  We’ve seen in the last few days where a church didn’t have to marry a black couple.  And as much as everyone is outraged, I didn’t notice anyone saying they should be legally required to.

But what if a school was getting Title II funds on the one hand, and on the other teaching that black people are inferior and interracial marriage is an abomination?  Even if those Title II funds were for a secular purpose, I’d really have a hard time with a school like that getting any money.  Which is why Anna’s comment is giving me pause.  And she is someone who’s family has been the target of and hurt by that kind of ‘teaching’.  She has a point I can’t dismiss.

 I see your point and you are correct, the strings are tied to how the money can be used, not to the beliefs of the school.  That is where they should stay.

As for the idea that there is a point where what is alleged to be discrimination interferes with religious teaching and thus federal funds can be tied to those beliefs, the problem of course becomes what is determined to be discrimination or for that matter, what agenda is being championed at the time so that the funds can be held. For example, you may recall years ago when the Federal government tied federal highway funds to a lowering of the speed limit to 55 MPH.

In the event there is a change in the government and these funds are tied to the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman and any school that teaches otherwise would not receive them, there would be an outcry from the left. It doesn’t seem wrong to hold up those funds for those that support same sex marriage, but if the situation was reversed, it would not seem so fair and just.

There are some religious or conservative schools that simply don’t accept federal funds.  They just choose to avoid the possibility that what they teach can be dictated by the acceptance of the funds.

So I did a little digging around, and it looks like this family dodged a bullet. Hope Christian seems to be your typical evangelical fundamentalist school, the kind that teaches creationism, revisionist history, and a bunch of other nonsense.

Here’s their Statement of Faith:

We believe that the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments, was given by inspiration of God, and is our only rule in matters of faith and practice. We believe in Creation, not evolution; that man was created by the direct act of God and in the image of God. We believe that Adam and Eve, in yielding to the temptation of Satan, became fallen creatures. We believe that all men are born in sin. We believe in the Incarnation, the Virgin Birth and the Diety of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. We believe in His vicarious and substitutional Atonement for the sins of mankind by the shedding of His blood on the Cross. We believe in the resurrection of His body from the tomb, His ascension into Heaven and that He is now our Advocate. We believe that He is personally coming again. We believe in His power to save men from sin. We believe in the necessity of the New Birth, and that this New Birth is through regeneration of the Holy Spirit. We believe that salvation is by grace through faith in the atoning blood of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. We believe that God is almighty and deserves our praise and worship. The method used to worship God is not as important as the fact that we do worship Him. We are created for the pleasure of God and to fulfill this purpose. God seeks true worshipers to worship Him in spirit and truth. We believe that this statement of faith is a basis for Christian fellowship and that all born-again men and women who sincerely accept it can, and should, live together in peace and harmony through promoting the cause of Christ.

Why did these two dads even apply there? Maybe it seemed innocuous because they were looking at the preschool, and they thought their son would just sing happy songs about Jesus, but clearly they must not have checked the website. This is  hardcore Christianity, not something all warm and fuzzy like Episcopalianism. There’s no way their child would ever be accepted there. Even if they had admitted him, socially it would have been awful.

I actually agree with most of what you wrote, except:

To say that unless you accept the same sex marriage beliefs you don’t get the money, you are changing the rules and getting Government involved in religion- something that I know you want to avoid. If you start to add the strings you want, than simply take away the money from all private schools, including the secular ones that receive the funds.

I would say that if private schools want government money, they should partner with the government and become charter schools, with all the oversight and regulation that entails. But I have less of a problem with secular private schools receiving funds because of separation of church and state issues. I don’t think government money should be going to religious schools because it seems like government support of religion. The money that Hope Christian saves by taking this public money they can use to better indoctrinate their students with their worldview. They can more easily update their curriculum or take the children on field trips or invite speakers that promote creationism, abstinence, or any number of other things. Heck, they might even use that money to invite Ken Ham over to do a dinosaur presentation.

Yikes, check out one of Hope Christian School’s Bible courses!

“Understanding the Times” is the title of the Senior Bible course which deals with the ideas and world views that dominate man’s thinking today. This curriculum, developed by Summit Ministries, will help students to understand the ideas and philosophies behind Marxism, Humanism, the New Age, AIDS, evolution, America’s Christian history, abortion, drug use and rock music. Students are challenged to have a Christian world view and discover a sense of direction and purpose in life. Projects and practical application are included in this course.

I love how rock music is included. Surely only the most conservative fundamentalists are still complaining about rock and roll?

 So, you think it’s okay to discriminate against children while taking public money, as long as the world’s largest pedophile cult are the ones doing it. 

I don’t like the idea of any private school getting public money. Nor do I want public faith schools (due to a Constitutional quirk left over from a previous era we actually have those here, i.e. public Catholic schools). Moreover, private schools should be forced to teach the public, secular curriculum (if they want to teach whatever religious or cultural stuff in addition, then fine). Also, homeschooled kids should have to pass minimum standards every couple of years, ideally including an oral interview with qualified personnel to make sure there’s no neglect or abuse going on.

Then again, I’m more concerned with the children’s rights to safety and a decent education than I am with the “rights” of parents to brainwash and abuse their children. In other words, children are human beings, not the property of their parents.

So the solution to a less-than-stellar graduation rate is to send kids to a school that teaches false science and revisionist history? I’ll have to pass on that one.

I have no problem with what the school did, legally speaking. I think discriminating against a three-year-old is rotten, but private schools shouldn’t be forced to enroll students against their will. Academics and religion aside, it seems clear that Hope Christian would have been a very unhealthy environment for the child in question. As a daughter of two moms myself, I would never have wanted to go to a school that taught me my family was evil.

Anyway, my issue is only with the public funding. I would feel the same way about public funding if Hope Christian were a hippy-dippy, warm-fuzzy “Jesus is a liberal” type of place. I think private schools in general shouldn’t be getting money from the government, but especially religious schools because it muddies the line of church-state separation. I don’t believe the government should be investing in the success of religious schools.

Christian schools have every right to decide who comes to the school. It is amazing that secularists are crying foul because their beliefs are not being accepted, but why should Christian schools accept views that goes against their beliefs ? What give gays the right to say “you must accept our view and liefstyles” . Sorry but that sort of demand was experienced in Nazi Germany. In a democracy people have a moral and legal right to their beliefs. It is freedom of religion not freedom from religion. And by the way religion people have never and do not fear homosexuality, rather, we believe it to be wrong.

As a believer myself and taxpayer, the public school system takes my money and uses it to indoctrinate children with secular ways os seeing the world. Hmmm I reject that like you reject taxpayer money going to faith based schools. Try and think a little and you will see that living in a democracy, based on christian values by the way, entails different beliefs and views on matters such as this. Think!

But I course I could say exactly the same thing about public schools taking my tax payer money and teaching a seccular indoctrinating curriculum that excludes God as a live option. I could call that discrimatory too. So you can see your problem with this kind of objection. The reality is that Christian schools do not discriminate by not allowing homosexual parerents to enrol a child. Just like you disgaree with the school, they disagree with the lifestyle of homosexuality. The real question is: who is right? And that is a talk we could have.

Okay, let’s break this down. Government-funded schools are for all children, from all types of families. Teachers are not allowed to tell children that gods are real, and they are also not allowed to tell children that gods are imaginary. They are not allowed to take a position on the existence of gods one way or the other. They must remain neutral. 
  
If I wanted to have a school tell my children that gods are imaginary and all religions are false (I don’t, by the way), then I need to pay a private school to do that. Similarly, if Christian parents want a school to tell their children that a certain deity is real and that one particular religion is true, then they must also pay a private school to do that. Neither of us can expect a public school to take that stance. That’s not the purpose of public education.

Now Christian schools have the right to discriminate against children based on religious (or other) criteria. I have no legal problem with that. These private schools are paid for by parents who wish to have their children indoctrinated into a certain religion. I think their actions and beliefs are morally and factually wrong, but I support their right to do what they want with their own money. As I said, no one here has argued that Hope Christian should be forced to admit children from families they disagree with. Our only issue is with the federal funding.