Rick Warren: The Teaching of Evolution is to Blame for the Colorado Shooting July 20, 2012

Rick Warren: The Teaching of Evolution is to Blame for the Colorado Shooting

Whenever atheists talk about Pat Robertson or James Dobson, moderate Christians are always quick to say those men don’t represent them.

So which pastors are the good ones?

Rick Warren always seems to end up on that list. After all, he’s the pastor the presidential candidates are willing to talk to heading into the elections.

Let’s hear those Warren-defending Christians explain this tripe that the pastor tweeted earlier today:

So, according to Rick Warren, pastor extraordinaire, teaching scientifically-sound evolution is the reason the shooter went into that theater.

Tell me again why he deserves our respect?

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  • I always love the logic behind these kinds of statements: “Whatever makes me feel good is true; whatever doesn’t make me feel good is false.”

    Humans are animals. I suppose Mr. Warren would prefer that we be plants? fungi? bacteria? We are animals but by far the most advanced, most intelligent species on the planet. Unfortunately, this doesn’t seem to say much.

  • advancedatheist

    The alleged shooter has a background in neuroscience. I suppose christians will blame the materialist orientation of modern neuroscience for his killing spree as well. 

  • LesterBallard

    “pastor extraordinaire”
    That’s like “curb painter extraordinaire”.

  • asonge

    “When Christians are taught that we’re all worthless reprobates unless God cleans you, they treat everyone like worthless reprobates.” Same-same, right?

  • GregFromCos

    Thank you Rick Warren for helping the NRA keep the high capacity clip he used (100 round) legal! The church has to understand when they are in league with the NRA they are handing mentally disturbed people the tools to harm many. Thank you Rick!

  • Unlike pastors, curb painters  earn an honest living.

  • Yeah, that’s why this happened, Warren…  Ridiculous!  Ironically, its when I finally admitted to myself I am no different than animals (aside from the obvious differences) that I became much more compassionate towards humans and other animals alike.

  • snoozn

    Teaching evolution makes us act like animals. Animals frequently gun down large numbers of their own species. What’s not to understand?

  • Templeotrunk

    Warren is fearful that science will expose his false profession.

  •  Actual it does say a lot, it says that being the most advanced and intelligent, we can made so many more decisions for so many different reasons, which may or may not seem valid to the decision maker and or the people watching the decision maker.  Over all I would say that this is a good trait to have, we can use it to do better.

  • High capacity magazine,not clip. Also some of us atheist do carry concealed firearms. I’m one of them and I used to be a member of the NRA. If I go out and purchase a high capacity magazine that is my right to do so.

    I enjoy my right to own and carry a firearm.

  •  Not THIS Christian!

  • Johnhuey

    Tom Flynn’s bad pr statement: -1
    Rick Warren’s bad pr statement: – 100

  • GregFromCos

    Nice strawman, did I say you should not be able to own and carry. Good Job! I grew up in the midwest with a gun in my hand at a very early age, and still own several. But let’s be reasonable about the purpose of a 100 round magazine…

  • Another example of creationists jumping to conclusions! They blame evolution on the bad things happening in this world without ever bothering to find out the real motive behind the incident that has nothing to do with evolution and plenty to do with something else such as jealousy or being motivated by religious beliefs.

  • Shouldn’t he be writing another book on Christian Ego Fluffing and not making Ray Comfort worthy tweets

  • newavocation

    So does that mean you are a bad shot or just think you’ll run into 100 muggers?

  • LesterBallard

    Yes, nothing I came up with really seemed to fit. My first thought was ass wiper, but I would rather have an incompetent ass wiper than a excellent pastor. Almost anything is worth more and more useful than pastor.

  • Moribund Cadaver

    This is fast become a very popular can of worms for Christians to open up. Of course, it represents a flawless, textbook case of myopic argument. The history of religion, especially the western world’s Big Three, is fraught with people who act like ‘animals’ fully and intentionally in the name of god, and in the name of believing that they are connecting to cosmic forces and cosmic beings.

    Christians who argue using this tactic of course, have an easy out: they just say “the people who committed atrocities in the name of god were merely confused.”

    Yes. Merely… confused.

  • First, it is not a straw man but keep thinking that and please tell me. If I go out and purchase a 100 round magazine what are my intentions?

  • LesterBallard

    And Obama. They’ll blame Obama, too.

  •  Former firearms instructor, use of force instructor, NRA member and concealed pistol license holder here.
    Get your facts straight, please. I love it when the fringe elements from both sides of an issue come out of the woodwork whenever tragedy strikes.
    And as Kevin_Of_Bangor stated, it was a magazine, not a “clip”.

  • I would say this brings a lot of people to the forefront of the evidence, and I am ready to show them. Everyone go to my facebook. com/creationistssuck if you want to get my info list for creationists. The war of information is on!

  • GregFromCos

    If it was not a straw man, then please show me where I said you should not own a gun. Or perhaps show me where I said you should not do concealed carry? 

  • GregFromCos

    Really??? My calling it a clip instead of a magazine substantially changed my argument how?  I must just not understand the nuances. 🙂

  • wingsthree

    That is disgusting. The shooter will repent and end up in heaven. What a pathetic joke.

  • First off, most 100 round 5.56 AR magazines are pieces of shit. They are a novelty item more than anything else. Second, if I want to purchase a single 100 round magazine or 4 30 round mags, what’s it to you? For someone who grew up in the Midwest with a gun in your hand you seem to have very little knowledge of firearms.
    As 100 round capacity mags are more likely to misfeed, it would take me less time to blow through four 30 round mags than for you to have to clear your stoppages, reseat the mag, pull back the charging handle and get back to work.
    Even f these mags were reliable, mere possession of one is not what drove this punk to murder.
    As to the purpose of a 100 round mag…what’s the purpose of a 5, 10, 20, 30 or 40 round magazine? Are you implying that the 2nd
    Amendment was all about hunting or target practice?

  • And you have yet to answer my question. Why is that?

  • It is obvious you have never once owned a firearm.

  •  The 100 round magazine referred to was for an AR-15 variant, most likely in 5.56 mm.
    It’s a rifle, not a pistol, so it’s not very probable that Kevin_of_Bangor (or anyone) would be carrying one concealed. So, your little joke about poor marksmanship or fear of coming under attack from 100 assailants falls flat on its face.

  • And now you are just being a dick, to be a dick.

  •  Yes, but he/she/it may have played Call of Duty once…

  • Wat32

    Then I expect that since he believe otherwise, that being that we are made in his God’s image, has more to do with it. Sad that these clowns feel the need to try to use these terrible events to further their own adjendas.

  •  If you want to comment with authority on a subject, at least get the basic terminology down. As far as your alleged argument, you have none. You made a bizarre assertion that the NRA and fundamentalist Christians are responsible for nutcases having access to firearms. That’s simply not true. You then followed that doozy up with questioning why anyone should be able to own a high capacity magazine.

  • i set up a petition on change.org asking president obama and governor romney not to take part in warren’s planned “presidential forum”
    do not take part in this forum.

  • Octoberfurst

    The 100 round mag didn’t jam on the shooter now did it? I grew up around firearms and had a handgun for many years. But I don’t see the reason why ANYONE needs a 30 round mag or a 100 round mag. Why would someone need something like this? To repel invaders? Oh please. Enough of the Red Dawn fantasies.

  • Philbert

    Pretty sure we’re not the ones claiming there’s no reason not to murder people except for a magical being that nobody can prove exists.

  • jdm8

     That still doesn’t address the question.  Also, do you feel you need a 100 round mag to enjoy firearms?

  • Zombie attack.

  •  “The 100 round mag didn’t jam on the shooter now did it?”
    Do you know this for a fact? Where can I see this information? I’ve read nothing about this yet, so I’d appreciate a link to wherever you read this.
    As far as getting into a discussion about what YOU think I should and should not have, it’s irrelevant to me. I purchase whatever I want to and I don’t fuck with anyone else.

  •  Oh yeah…right.
    I forgot about the zombies…

  • GregFromCos

    Because I don’t answer straw man arguments. Justify the straw man you say did not exist And I’ll respond.

  • Can make for a fun day at the range.

  •  And if he does? What then?

  • GregFromCos

    Sorry I’m not the one who said that ”
    Get your facts straight, please. ” and then proceeded to list the only fact I got wrong was calling a magazine a clip.

    If thats your best argument. Don’t you think it’s time to reevaluate?

  • Yes, Pastor Warren, humans *are* different from animals.  When it comes to war and genocide, we have no equal in the animal kingdom.  

    You’d think we’d learn, but that big brain that God apparently gave us cuts both ways–we’re tops in altruism as well as savagery.

  • What does Rick Warren consider himself? Flora?

  • LoL @ Rick Warren.   I don’t think he really deserves any more time than a good chuckle.

  • Octoberfurst

    Well witnesses said he just kept shooting and shooting. Now I don’t have a film of the shooting but I am just guessing that his weapon didn’t jam. Plus he killed 14 and wounded over 50 so he got off quite a few round don’t ya think?
     By the way, no need to get huffy. I just wanted to know WHY you think you need a 100 round mag. Do you want to make sure you hit the deer you are hunting? Or perhaps you skeet shoot and a 100 round mag will guarantee that you hit the target. Then of course there is the dreaded zombie apocalypse.  🙂

  • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

    I’m sorry, this guy is worse scum than the shooter. Shooters are crazy, this guy is just a slimy opportunist.

  • Ed

    Atheist, “liberal”, gun owner (competitive shooting and personal protection), trained, licensed to carry.

    I am not defending ass clown Warren, but other than coincidence, where is the proof that he was referring to Colorado?

  •  He had several different weapons with him, so until we have the complete report, you’re just making this up.
    Fine, we’ll assume the 100 round mag didn’t jam. How does that change anything? I can do just as much (more, actually) damage with four 30 round magazines.
    As far as WHY I might want a 100 round magazine (I DON’T, BTW), that is none of your business. Why does a male homosexual want to have another man for a sex partner? I don’t know and more to the point, I don’t CARE because it’s NONE OF MY BUSINESS. Why does my wife like ice cream? Fuck…I don’t know and I don’t give a shit. The question that really needs to be asked here is why you care so much about law abiding citizen’s purchases.

  • he will be getting a stern talking to from his fellow pastors.  he knows damn well gay marriage is the cause of this.  it was in the memo.

  •  There is none, at least none that I could find.

  • I’m going to stop banging my head against the brick wall. Enjoy the rest of your night.

  • Spark

    I think, considering that the shooting has dominated the news today, I’d say it’s a pretty safe assumtion.

  • GregFromCos

    High capacity clips were banned until 2004 when the federal assault weapons ban was allowed to expire due to the support and lobbying of the NRA. 

    For the most part the NRA congress members are supported by Fundamentalist Christians. Although there are a couple of democratic members also.What fact do I have wrong?

  • what is he an idiot?

  • stop2wonder

    He doesn’t need a reason to own them, it’s his right.    And just because you can’t think of a good reason, doesn’t mean there isn’t.  That’s called the arguement from ignorance.   It’s his right to own the guns for whatever reason, whether you accept those reasons or not.

  • Non-human animals aren’t particularly likely to a. carry guns or b. make stupid comments on Twitter. I fail to see the point.

  • Dave

    I was wondering the same thing myself. Even looking at his twitter page, none of his tweets that I read on either side of this one made any reference to this event. Context really is key, and the problem with twitter is, you really don’t have one.

  • Liz Winfrey

    or Duck Hunt 🙂

  • Patrick_frye

    Is the “range” also possibly an interior of a movie theater ?

  • Patrick_frye

    …and “merely” killed in totally cold blood…

  • You are a fucking idiot. Enjoy being such an dumbass.

  • What “fact” do you have wrong? Actually you have several facts wrong.


    “Thank you Rick Warren for helping the NRA keep the high capacity clip he
    used (100 round) legal! The church has to understand when they are in
    league with the NRA they are handing mentally disturbed people the tools
    to harm many.”

    This entire statement is factually wrong. There is nothing I can say or write that will get you to admit this because you are not interested in the facts, you are interested in winning an argument at all costs. I’m going to go to bed now as this has proven to be an excercise in futility.

  • Right, because believing in God has always stopped people from acting like animals.

    That Rick is an idiot is immaterial.  That SO many people take his word as meaningful is a tragedy.

  • It must be difficult breathing with your head stuck so far up your ass. The resulting brain damage would certainly explain your comment.

  • rlrose328

    Well, he hears directly from God so it must be true.  [eye roll]

    I have been in “no news” mode for a few months now and I came back to your blog (and not much else) about a week ago.  That’s enough… I have to go no news again.  There’s so much out there, especially crap like this and that other doofus who blames godless schools, that I just can’t deal with.  I want to fix things, honestly I do… but it’s not going to happen.  There are too many of them, not enough of us, and they’re procreating faster.  AND they’re indoctrinating their children whereas we let our kids figure it out.  We are doomed… I don’t see any way we can win this war… and yes, it is a war.

    I also spent a month with my mother, who is disabled and has Fox News on 24/7.  She sleeps in front of it and believes every morsel they spew.  And she is a brilliant woman who graduated summa cum laud. 

    I’m just tired…. so very tired.

  • KaeylynHunt

    I have&do Kevin,but I have No need for a 100 rounds or anything remotely close that would use it.I was raised with The School of Thought that says if you can’t hit your Target with a Single shot Weapon,you have no business owning a weapon in the 1st Place.”Pray&Spray”is NOT Responsible Gun Ownership,but it IS however,The Hallmark of most folks who have “Little Man Syndrome”&feel the need to prop their Precious Egos with Piles of lead.I Agree with October about The Red dawn Fantasy thing.There is just NO good Reason to own something that isn’t worth a Hoot in Hunting,Target Practice and is a Cowards Choice for self-defense.It rather falls under the”Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should”.But instead of Banning them,I’d just rather see a Registry,better waiting Periods&better background checks for them that’s Uniform in all states.(No,I’m not crazy enough to think Texas will comply,but then again,I’m not sure they were ever part of The Union anyway)As far as a Zombie Apocalypse,there’s no need to worry about a takeover,They’re already here.The best way to spot them is by The Tri-corn/Tin Foil Hats&their totally illegible attempts at communication whenever they speak or write.They can most often be found with a Bible in one hand and a Natty Ice Beer in the other attempting to convince someone that REAL men like an Economy where they’re Getting Pissed on&told that its’s rain,cause Prosperity is for “dem Liburul socilissst Commas.”They are easy to banish,just throw Facts&words with more than 5 Letters in your Speech&POOF!They run like mad back into The Hills they came from screeching like Banshees because their Brains are on fire.Indeed,Those Hills DO have Eyes…

  • Except… no other animal, except us humans, created guns. Logic fail.

  • jfrulez1

    He’s better off locked up in Arkham.

  • Not to worry. Since Jesus saves us all from our sins, simply by believing in him, all the shooter/murderer at the Aurora CO movie theater needs to do is believe, and he is forgiven and can go to heaven! Makes perfect sense. Not.

  • Please edit your post so one can read it.

  • KaeylynHunt

    Dave,Christianity as a whole as well as The entire GOP/TEA don’t have  Good Context references either,but by golly that’s never stopped them before!LOL

  • GregFromCos

    Of Course! 🙂 All my facts are wrong! Even the ones I broke out for you one by one. 🙂

  • Cadara_nice

    Teaching evolution is supposed to educate ppl and that should give them an understanding of why we already act like animals, because we are. And ppl that don’t believe in evolution are the biggest animals with their religious killings and beheading of ppl who do not share their faith. Religion is a cult you can’t blame evolution for someone acting like an animal when we are. Because without any knowledge of evolution ppl still do animal things.

  • Science already has. He’s worried the sheeple will someday awaken to that fact.

  • Jsmith48

    Animals don’t use guns.

  • Guest

    I forgot how funny and crazy it gets on these comment boards when someone is afraid they will get their coc….guns away.

  • Guest

    ….guns taken away.

  • Brad Rissmiller


    Try to take your meds next time? 

  • Brad Rissmiller

    There is only one person I know of that could successfully navigate a Rick Warren mediated discussion/debate. And unfortunately, Hitchens is dead.

  • Nikolai T

    He was being sarcastic.

  • Animals frequently gun down large members of their own species? Yes, deer hunters here in Iowa have been shot by small groups of deer armed with automatic weapons. Our local NRA is asking for the ban on Assault Weapons to be lifted so the hunters can match the firepower of these ruthless packs of heavily armed deer. We are lucky that rabbits aren’t strong enough to properly aim their rifles yet, but  I hear they are enlisting teams of raccoons to assist them.

  • Star46

    I am a Christian, but certainly not one to judge anyone else’s beliefs. I respect that everyone has the freedom to have his/her own ideas. But I am just putting this out there. If I am wrong,
    I guess when I die I will just cease to be and that is it. But what if the atheist is wrong… Just something to think about.

  • You don’t say…

    *slow clap*

  • Dave D.

    Give me a break.  The 2nd amendment was never intended to cover every conceivable weapon.  Or, is it your right to own a personal nuke too?

  • Bball246165

    Pascals Wager. Look it up.

  • Ian Reide

    Could it be that an overly militarised society contributed to this?
    Could it be that a single data point has in fact no meaning outside itself?

  • We’re both wrong. Only the Hindus have it right.

  • why is there a christianeducation.com ad on this page!?

  • When students are taught that the earth is not the center of the universe, they act like it.

  • Nor do animals slaughter 50 of their own kind after experiencing the horror of warfare without adequate psychological counseling.

  •  I’ll let you set limits on the things that I purchase if I can set limits on yours.

    You don’t need that big of a house, or a car with that many cylinders. Your cell phone doesn’t need that many features or your computer doesn’t need to be that fast with all that memory you’ll never use.

  • Just like Freedom of the press was never intended to cover TV or Radio.

    Dumb Ass

  • Miss_Beara

    Blame blame blame. Blame evolution, blame  ‘taking god out of schools”, blame movies, blame music, blame blame blame.

  • stop2wonder

    And what are your credentials that make you a Constitutional Scholar?  Or where is your time machine that you used to interview the Constitution’s authors?  So unless you can produce either one, I think I”ll error on the side of the   The Supreme Court’s opinion.

  • stop2wonder

    How did this comment section turn into a battle over the 2nd amendment?  lol

  • Is all this really needed ?

  • So now we are in league with theists making laws with no evidence to back them up.  “Its my right” why? why does someone need the right to carry an assault weapon.  Yes the constitution writes the right to own a weapon (written in a time of rebellion where people had to worry about soldiers coming into their home so its still useless now).  But I see no evidence being brought forwards to why someone should still need that right, and ZERO evidence for why someone needs the “right” to own an assault weapon.

  • Hmm, I think Rick Warren is just another fucking idiot. Who is with me?

  • stop2wonder

    That’s Pascals Wager, and on the surface it sounds pretty sound.  But in reality that argument is so full of holes and have been rebutted so many times, most atheists just roll their eyes when they hear/read it.  As Bball says Google it and read.

  • Winter Is Coming

    Funny. When i was taught evolution i didnt felt like killing anybody. Any of you did, guys? Show of hands…? No…?

  • stop2wonder

    My friend said the same thing when i posted on FB about this.  And my reply is the same…


    He was referring to it and taking a shot at evolution and blaming it for what happened


    He exercised bad judgment by sending out a cryptic tweet at a very bad time when it could easily have been misconstrued for the above (and was).

    Either way, he deserves to be called out on it.

  •  Why kill them when you can debate them to tears and cause their children to start thinking and asking hard questions.

  • Thin-ice

    Simply amazing. A bunch of gun lovers (all men, I would guess) commenting here trying to outdo each other in showing how much they know about guns. You guys sound like silly jackasses braying at each other in a barn yard. “I know more about guns than you do, so na-na-na!” “No you don’t, I know more, so na-na-na.”

    And since when does knowing the pros and cons of a 100-round 5.56mm AR-15 magazine given anyone the authority to proclaim the truth about the insane gun violence which claims more innocent lives than in other developed nation? It doesn’t: it was a rhetorical question. It makes you part of the problem, not the solution.

  • Dave D.

    Exactly, and both can be regulated as we see fit.
    FYI, you don’t need a signature after your posts.

  • Dave D.

    Even the Supreme Court doesn’t claim there are no limits on gun ownership.  Most of their decisions are also 5-4 these days.

  • Seth

    Heh, that reminds me of a game I used to play as a kid.  

  • Sinextheist

    Someone rolled a “1” on their Detect Sarcasm check.

  •  What if we’re both wrong, but the one(s) in charge really can’t stand Mr. Oh-So-Clever and would prefer honest atheism to self-serving piety?

  • RE: the gun debate in this thread

    I’d just like to mention that a few days ago, in a thread on G+, we were talking about guns and the prevalence of them. I mentioned that I now live in Israel (this was a thread about the Israeli bikini girl on the beach with the M16). Somebody was shocked when I told them that this is an absolutely common sight here. You can go to the mall, or on the train (I often take the train from Haifa to Tel Aviv – very comfortable and nice), or the bus, or walk down the street, and you will have many soldiers carrying modern assault rifles (well, the M16 isn’t modern, but the Tavor is, which has replaced the M16 in most combat units).
    In fact, you’ll see so many combat rifles that you won’t even notice them anymore. Soldiers here are instructed to carry their guns when on leave (or leave them behind two locks at home…lots of rules). But the fact is that the people I mentioned this to were shocked because they, like myself, are really liberal and on the left of such issues. I’m pretty anti-gun, when you get down to it.

    But I have to concede that there are almost no massacres in the history of Israel with a soldier going ballistic with his or her assault rifle.  Of course we all know it has happened once or twice, but you’d think with a population so steeped in machine guns everywhere (because they are fully automatic, remember…not semi-automatic. They’re military grade stuff), that there would be far, far, more massacres here than in most places.

    But I’ve learned it’s not the number of guns around me, but the mentality of the people around me. Most people here really don’t want to go to the military. They go, they’re proud to serve in most cases, but they really don’t enjoy it much. And for the young Rambo-types who go to the military at eighteen years old, they usually get broken down so hard in basic training (which lasts six months in many cases) that they just aren’t very much the Rambo-types when they start carrying a gun around with them.

    So, I have to say that while I am perfectly aware of the problems which Israel has in a geopolitical sense on her borders and the state of war this country has been in since before 1947, I do have to say that it isn’t particularly the number of assault rifles around that cause crimes such as this.

    Remember too that people here watch the same exact movies and the same exact TV shows as we do in the states. CSI, The Wire, Batman – whatever. It’s all here, you know. There’s literally no censorship and being here in terms of entertainment is literally no different than being in the states. 

    So I’m not entirely sure what it is that makes America more susceptible to this kind of violence, and gun violence in general. I’m not saying that there isn’t crime here – of course there is. I’m just saying that there are a hell of a lot more guns around you in the street and in public places, but still less shootings and almost no massacre rampages from disaffected youth.

    Why? I haven’t figured it out yet. Of course, bite my tongue, now I’m sure some sort of copycat will pop off several clips and kill a ton of people just to prove me wrong. I hope to goodness that isn’t the case.

  • stop2wonder

    I’m not defending the wisdom or even the reasoning for why someone would want to own an assault weapon; I’m defending the constitutional right to do it. 

    And just because you and I don’t have a good reason why a person should have the right to have one doesn’t mean there isn’t one.  Saying  otherwise is just an argument from ignorance.

  • pantaloony

    Nothing shows the reprehensibility of a person as when he uses a tragedy to further his agenda.

  • Okiefilm

    They did in Congo.

  • AxeGrrl

    I think you’re giving the Rickster far too much credit 🙂  I think almost any of the ‘regular’ posters around here could decimate him in a discussion/debate.

  • JohnnyCrash

    IDK what I hate worse, bible thumpers or “atheist Libertarians.”  Blind ideologues.

    I own guns too.  But seriously, who gives a f@ck that your redneck self knows the (arbitrary and semantic) difference between “clips” and “magazines?!”  Some dude went ape-$h!t on an unarmed crowd.  Why are you arguing a lame, human *religious* document (the Constitution, Bill of Rights, 2nd Amendment – do you know the difference between the original Constitution and an Amendment anyway?).

    Sure, MAYBE things would’ve been different if someone in the theater was packing… sure, MAYBE he would’ve killed/maimed less… sure, MAYBE it doesn’t matter since bad guys will always find a way to get their hands on guns anyway… 

    The point is, this has NOTHING to do with the irrefutable facts surrounding evolution and our biological historical development.  This has nothing to do with Christian belief versus “evolutionary, secular, atheism.”  As an atheist, I am just as shocked, offended, and morally incensed as anyone.  As a gun owner, I am tired of the de facto assumption that the NRA speaks for me.  The NRA is an insane, amoral, mindless institution… as corrupt as any political entity.  F@ck the NRA (I’ll stand up for my own 2nd amendment rights thank you).

  • KingQ

     The wooosh was so strong over your head it made me sick with diarrhea. Thanks.

  • kkjdroid

    Dammit, I hate perception checks!

  • Donalbain

    It’s odd that the country with the weakest grasp of evolutionary biology in the west has the highest rate of these sorts of mass murder.

  • Not an American, but random shooting always of great concern………something tilted  him over the edge? Sounds ludicrous, maybe he is a luddite?

  • Unless you’re committing mass murder with a Nokia indestructible model, comparing machine guns to morally inert objects like houses and computers makes you look like a moron.

    Don’t be that guy.

  • Kneewax

    That’s a big reach conclusion from one tweet.  A foolish tweet, yes, but none the less a big conclusion to draw.  Rick Warren I suspect is not blaming evolutionary teaching (most Christians I know belief in both a creator God and evolutionary process – science &  faith are not enemies).  But perhaps more a person’s self-awareness and self-worth. (here I also don’t agree) It is too big a conclusion to say he is blaming evolution teaching just from that one tweet.

  • In S.A. were we have an alarmingly high crime rate, many of the S.A.Police are  killed for their guns, theft of guns a major factor in armed robberies……..one moment ready to protect family. then they are killed by their own firearm.

  • amycas

     Clearly houses, cars, cell phones and computers are comparable to an assault weapon that is built and used to assault and/or kill people. Yep, that’s a valid comparison all right.

  • Poop

    Not getting into the whole Second Amendment fight, but the arguments you bring up about ice cream and male on male sex are pretty ridiculous. You cannot use male on male sex or ice cream to more efficiently KILL anyone. 


  • John Doe

    1. We don’t need your “gun resume.” No one gives a shit and it doesn’t qualify your opinion in any way. 2. No one is disputing that a 100 round magazine isn’t used for hunting. 3. Know what else isn’t intended for hunting? The second amendment. 4. Whether I own a 100 round magazine or a 5 round magazine is none of your business. I don’t “need” beer, opera tickets, a V8 engine or a 100 round magazine. But whether I choose to have those things is no one’s business. 5. No, just because you feel unsafe or you think that my owning a 100 round magazine “might” put your life in danger isn’t sufficient reason for preventing me from owning one. My car and kitchen knives pose an even greater risk, but you don’t seemed too concerned with those.

  • LifeinTraffic

    Just as a point of internet etiquette, it’s considered yelling when you type in all capital letters. Because of that, and because it makes it difficult to read, many people will skip a post of any length that is written in all caps.

  • Earl G.

    If there is a reason, the 100-round magazine fans should be able to provide this reason.  “It’s legal” is not a reason.  
    For example, we could ask someone what reason they have for going to church.  “It’s legal” doesn’t answer the question.

  • the same reason any one does anything …to impress us chicks 🙂 plus you look like a bad ass on the shooting range

  •  Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. The shooter was not a veteran. Don’t blame vets for this massacre.

  • Lowrunner

    Whoa!  someone call the grammar police!

    …but you do have some good points.


    Warren’s statement is as well thought out as anything else the man has
    regurgitated. The shear stupidity of his comment is, however, less maddening than
    Warren’s smug assumption that, because he sports the title “reverend,” he should
    be deferred to.

  • amazed

     hey retard, take the caps lock off. next, look up the definition of sarcasm. geez.

  • Did anyone really expect them to leave their God OUT of this? I suspect that secretly some of the firebrand/fundie pastors see this sort of tragedy as a gift from their imaginary friend in the sky. The bottom line is that a large part of America will look for answers/comfort from their old book & some nasty religious “types” will take advantage & use it for ratings, donations &/or Tithes from the “faithful”. Sad, in EVERY way  ☹

  • Cuw

    Pretty sure snoozn was making a joke. You know, sarcasm?



  • Kevin

    Not to disrespect anyone but even if assault weapons and high capacity mags were illegal they would be available on the black market. The general public would be cut off from them but criminals wouldn’t be. At the same time everyone arming them self to the teeth where ever they go is a bad idea too. Not that there’s anything wrong with a concealed weapon permit. The whole gun issue is a mess. Damned if you do and Damned if you don’t.

  • Becky

     Spell check much?

  • Becky

     Actually the witness have stated SEVERAL times that the shooter reloaded quite a bit during the incident, so I doubt he went in there with a 100 round mag.

  • Julia Burger

    I disagree with Rick.  It’s actually believing you come from an omniscient creator that makes people justify these actions, you know, it’s in God’s plan and all…..

  • Niko

    Oh my, personal nuke.
    NNS, Neoghborhood Nuclear Superiority, take care of those pesky neighbors, Simply attaches to your garden hose with ordinary hand tools. Warheads for everything, from as large as a city block to as small as a dog house.

  • But try to talk about gun regulations and the Church of NRA goes ape shit bananas

  • Stev84

     But Rick Warren is best buddies with Obama

  • Matt Dillahunty
    Sam Harris
    Peter Boghossian
    to name a few

    I’d like to propose the topic: “There is zero, ZERO support for slavery in the bible”

  • PunditusMaximus

    So I’ll put you down as in favor of private ownership of nukes?

  • Pam

    Dear gun-toting Americans, if you want a reason why you shouldn’t be allowed to own assault weapons, just look at your murder rate compared to countries with tighter gun laws.

  • Knickerbockertenor

    What a JERK.

  • Pam

    It’s my understanding that all the guns this guy used were purchased legally. It’s my understanding that the same is true for pretty much all of these massacres that occur time to time. 

  • Pam

    Use your inside voice.

  • I think the term “moderate” has now become a word to just describe evangelicals really and not liberal/mainline Protestants at all. If you’d like some names of popular mainline authors I’d include Marcus Borg, Diana Butler Bass, John Domminic Crossan, Phillip Gulley, Phyllis Tickle, John Shelby Spong, Anne Lamont, John Cobb, Walter Wink to name a few

  • Sue Blue

    Yes, because poor or non-existent education and rampant superstition make people so loving and peaceful and Christ-like – just look at the Bible Belt and various third-world countries!  Look at how wonderfully everyone gets along there!  They’re veritable pools of serenity and peace….

    Intelligence and education (the shooter supposedly had a degree in neuroscience) doesn’t prevent schizophrenia; it doesn’t mean a person isn’t a psychopath (many psychopaths are exceptionally intelligent).  It doesn’t guarantee a person won’t go around the bend under stress.  We’ve all seen the studies that show correlation of secular college education  with much lower levels of all kinds of violence, whereas religiosity correlates with social ills across the board.

  • Sue Blue

    Wow, that comment of mine was a little disjointed.  I meant to put “sigh” after the sarcasm in the first paragraph and “however” before the statement about correlation. Sorry, I haven’t had my coffee yet.

  • Sue Blue

    I normally associate capitalized rants with crazy religious commenters, and I tend to skip them.  Tone it down so people won’t ignore you!

  • That’s true: there were no act of violence committed by humans before Darwin polluted their minds with his crazy theories …

  • i don’t think he has to worry about that…the dumb keep breeding at an alarming rate.  

  • I thought I’d fight fire with fire…


  • snoozn

    Now I’m frightened. There are lots of deer in my neighborhood as well as raccoons. But teachers live here as well, including at least one science teacher. WHAT IF THEY START TEACHING THE ANIMALS ABOUT EVOLUTION? We all know where that path leads!! Someone needs to alert Rick Warren NOW.
    [Seriously, I love that image — I do have deer and raccoons living near me and now I’m going to always picture them camo uniforms and talking into radios!]

  • snoozn

    Yikes! This will teach me not to leave my [sarcasm] tags at home next time. I failed to realize that what to me was a ridiculously unbelievable statement might be taken as an actual creationist’s stance.

    Now, put down the ferret and STEP AWAY FROM THE CAPSLOCK!

  • Toast41

    I didn’t even know mass murder was a problem in the animal kingdom. Do manatees take assault rifles and gun other manatees down?   

  • nakedanthropologist

    While I am in no way advocating a free-for-all as it concerns weapons and gun control, weapon ownership has very valid reasons (as well as invalid ones).  Let us not forget that it was the Nazis who owned the guns, and not the jews.  Yes, Americans do have rights and freedoms that are protected by the constitution – but that constitution is also backed by firepower, as well as willpower.  Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto: “You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

  • Mike

     Then maybe the 100-round magazines should be limited to the range?  Just a thought…

  • Otter218

    Check out a short story by Bruce Sterling called “Neural Chernobyl”. It’s right along these lines and just about as funny!

  • Mike

     The point behind making guns illegal is this: if someone who is not a member of the armed forces or the police is in possession of a gun, they are doing so illegally, almost certainly have criminal intent (though even that does have to be proven), and may be challenged/arrested and the gun impounded.  That’s what happens over here in the UK – if you show a gun in public, you’ve quickly got SO-19 armed response teams marking you with lasers.

    Yes, there are criminals here who do want guns, and can probably get hold of one quite easily (though not as easily as going to aisle 14 of your local S-Mart), and yet with a largely unarmed police force, the murder rate in the UK is massively less than in the US, and the rate of other crimes is either similar or slightly less.  To us, it’s a very simple equation: more guns = more opportunity to get shot.

  • A 100 round magazine serves no purpose at all for the average civilian. Unless someone is lacking a pair of gonads and needs to have something to make themselves feel more like a man. 

  • You really needed to scream that huh? And, if that is what you truly believe what the Bible says, then you are just as small minded as the idiots who make Christianity look bad. Not every word of the Bible was written for people living in the year 2012. It’s called using your intelligence and applying historical context. You are intelligent enough to understand those two things, right?

  • also we saw lion gathering enormous amount of ressources and preventing other lions to eat because it is his property. But he is kind enough to make other lions and animals work for him at a very low wage because he need all the riches so hes able to invest more and sent his loot to caiman island and be free from taxes

  • Jtsong3

    I find Warren’s tweet remarkable and true, but not relevant to the evolution-of-man debate.  I don’t know why people would assume that this is related to the evolution-of-man debate.  (The evolution debate should actually be over by now.  We’ve all played telephone.)

     “One who is merciful towards the cruel, will eventually be cruel towards the merciful.”

  • I used to belong to the NRA, because I believe in the right to keep and bear arms.  In about two years of membership, I learned that this so-called “single interest” group was nothing more than a front group for right wing extremism and bitterly attacked all moderates and progressives, regardless of their position on gun issues.  I was a member during the Carter years, and their unrelenting attacks and smear  job on Carter, who was not anti-gun, and their drooling support of the venal actor forced me to end my association with them.  

  • Mojokingz1

    guess you are one of those INBRED hillbillies that has his head up his AZZ…that’s why you have to SCREAM…because you can’t hear yourself….besides…yer an idiot…!!

  • Mitch W.

    Have you ever noticed that no one ever thinks of themselves as “fundamentalist.”  They like to use the word “evangelical” to describe themselves because “fundamentalist” has become pejorative term.  The problem is the words have different meanings. If as a Christian you believe the bible is the divinely inspired, and inerrant word of god, you are a fundamentalist…

    I was going to rage some more, but what’s the point because I’m preaching to the choir.

  • Crich83

    A longtime neighbor in San Diego, where Holmes grew up, remembers only a “shy guy … a loner” from a churchgoing family.

  • I agree, but I am neither an evangelical or a fundamentalist, nor do I believe the Bible is inerrant…my confusion lays in what is being defined as “moderate” and how Rick Warren got that label?

  • GregFromCos

    Actually the police chief confirmed that his first clip was a 100 round mag. Purchased on the internet.

  • “Evolution is any **CHANGE** across successive generations in the inherited characteristics of biological populations.” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution) See that word there Rickster,”Change” ? That means to be come DIFFERENT,so evolution doesn’t even mean what you think it does! Let alone provide the cause & motivation for the Aurora Shootings. 

    Seriously, Warren is an offensive, fat-ass jerk. Not that he’s never shown that before. 

  • unclemike

     I find it idiotic. In which school are students taught that “they are no different than animals?”

  • Eggheadw

    Rick is right, even though you mischaracterize what he said.

  • deerwoman

     “My car and kitchen knives pose an even greater risk, but you don’t seemed too concerned with those.”

    Actually I don’t think they do pose a greater risk than an assault weapon with a 100 round magazine… unless you can throw those knives at an incredible rate for a considerable distance, and you have at least a hundred of them on hand. Your vehicle may potentially pose an equal risk to an assault weapon, but the sole intended purpose of cars and knives is not to main/and or kill other human beings.

  • Jtsong3

    He means well, and what he said, we know is true.  Evolution is a general principle that doesn’t even need proof because it’s true on the face. 

     The problem is when people start using evolution-of-man as a justification for animal rights, at which point, “students are taught that they are no different from animals.”

  • Jtsong3

    Princeton, apparently.  Professor Peter Singer liked the idea a few years ago, though he was called out on it.

  • “(all men, I would guess)”

    Wow, sexist much? I agree that having a “my gun is bigger” fight is stupid, but so are generalizations like yours.

  • unclemike

     [citation needed]

  • Rcvulpus

    “Tell me again why he deserves our respect?”

    Because he wrote a bestselling book that told us that we need an excuse to exist, an excuse called “purpose.” He showed us the meaning and purpose of our lives: a significant part of said purpose being subservient to and financially supporting him.


  • Thin-ice

    So what? Would you deny that 95% (or so) of gun store customers are men? Or that 95% of  cosmetic store customers are women? And it damn well isn’t sexist, just an accurate observation.

  • Jtsong3

    Oh yeah, sorry.


    This isn’t a direct source, and it’s also not my original source, but it seems to pull the relevant paragraphs, so I’m pretty confident that at least the really long quotes have basis in context.  Even so, it might be a good idea to check out the 1983 article cited as (Pediatrics, vol. 72, No. 1, July 1983, p. 129) if you get the chance.  I’m hunting it down now.

  • Onegal4vt

    He doesn’t deserve my respect. And he owes an apology to the victims and their loved ones.

  • I think he’s what passes for moderate in the evangelical world. Evangelicals are a breed apart because their “moderates” would be classified as right-wing conservatives by those not involved in the subculture.

  • What else could the tweet be referring to?  Rick Warren isn’t some mainline, moderate Christian. He’s a conservative evangelical. And he absolutely does not believe in evolution:


  • unclemike

     Unless I’m misreading it, he’s comparing a “severely defective human infant” to a dog or a pig and finding the animal more capable.  Which kind of stacks the deck against humans. Hell, before i’ve had my caffeine most dogs are way more capable than me at a variety of things.

    I also wouldn’t be so quick to trust a quote that has NINE ellipses in one passage.

    But let’s say this one cherry-picked college professor said exactly what Warren is implying all education espouses. Singer still seems to have no connection whatsoever to this nut in CO.

  • Jtsong3

    HEY.  He’s important.  He’s influential.  He started PETA.

    And apparently I’m not tech-savvy enough to figure out why my browser doesn’t support remote use of EBSCOhost, so I can’t determine the validity, which I agree is questionable.

    But that’s where my thought process began, which, as you can see, isn’t very naturally critical, but I’ll let you know what I find.

  • MaxDoubt

    While we don’t know a whole lot about the demented character who committed this horrible act, Rick Warren’s statement helps explain the decline of our morality, ethics, behavior and conduct.

  • Kevin

    Mike, I agree with you on some points you brought up. More guns in my opinion would mean more chances to get shot. Which is why I said people arming them self to the teeth is a bad idea. At the same time how would the U.S. enforce gun control when a large portion of the U.s. has guns I don’t think all of them would just hand over their guns.

  • Kevin

    I accidentally hit post before I was done. Anyway because of the second amendment people would feel like their rights were being violated. The second amendment was wrote in a time when it took at least a minute to load a rifle though so people can argue rather it covers semi automatic rifles or not. I’m really on fence with this issue to be honest I don’t feel like there is a good solution.

    Pam, yes I’ve heard that the guns were also legally bought from a bass pro shop and somewhere else. I believe you are correct most mass shootings I’ve heard of the shooter legally bought the weapon. I was just making a point that people could still get there hands on weapons via the black market and citizens who want to protect them self would be out of luck. That’s all I was saying really.

    Thank you both for being civil and respectful. 🙂

  • kaydenpat

    So every country where evolution is widely taught issuffering from this problem, heh? 

  • Sindigo

    Good for you. Sincerely.

  • Dan Dorfman

    Animals are decent beings. When was the last time you saw a chicken come home and beat the shit out of his hen? When was the last time you saw a leopard discriminate against other leopards based on their spot pattern? I don’t recall any octopi killing their own offspring because they married an octopus who believed in the existence of people, and I sure as hell don’t recall any bees screwing other bees over so that they can get an extra drop of honey.

    I don’t see why Rick Warren is knocking animalistic behavior. When you think of it, It’s the ULTIMATE old-time way-things-used-to-be set of “traditional” values.

  • Proto777

    I checked Pastor Rick Warren’s
    verified Twitter page, and it would appear that he DID indeed tweet that
    “When students are taught [that] they are no different from animals, they
    act like it.” However, he DID NOT say that “The teaching of evolution
    is to blame for the Colorado
    shooting”, as the headline of this Facebook posting implies. Nor do I
    believe that the headline is a fair or reasonable interpretation and
    characterization of his view. First of all, Pastor Rick Warren mentions neither
    evolution, nor the Colorado
    shooting, nor blame in his tweet. But even if we assume that his tweet is in
    reference to the Colorado shooting, it is clear that he is talking, not about
    teaching students evolution, but simply about teaching students that “they
    are no different from animals”, i.e. that FACTUALLY and BIOLOGICALLY
    students ARE animals. I infer his REAL point to be that, to be taught these
    biological facts in a value-free moral vacuum is INSUFFICIENT to cause students
    to act like more than animals with respect to adopting moral values.
    Furthermore, Rick Warren does not affix any specific blame for the Colorado shooting to
    persons other than the shooter. Even were he to blame value-neutral
    just-the-facts education for amoral people in general, because he believes that
    morals should be taught in the classroom, this would be a thinly spread blame
    if he believes that the teaching or morals and values is a responsibility
    shared by family, school, and church. 
    Let me close by saying that there is plenty about religious folk to
    criticize without hastily and disingenuously characterizing their
    positions.  A more measured approach
    which encourages dialogue and understanding is to be preferred to shooting from
    the hip.

  • Neil

    Well, you used the same formulation as Rick Warrens tweet, but it’s not really the “same”.  The situation you describe actually happens, and is really quite common.

  • Neil

    You can’t use male-on-male sex OR ice cream to more efficiently kill anyone?  Jeez, don’t be so closed minded, use your imagination!

  • Neil

    And the “WTF Is This Person Talking About” award goes to…

  • I’m guessing he’d prefer we were all fungi so he could keep us in the dark and feed us shit.

  • A pastor, even an excellent one, is only about as useful as a chocolate teapot…

  • The ONLY reason to own a gun is to KILL.

  • It becomes my business when it puts myself or others in danger. Owning a gun == DANGER TO SOCIETY.

  • MengTzu

     That’s what you get for min-maxing, you munchkin.

  • Neil

    I’ve heard it called a “media blackout”.  There’s nothing wrong with cutting out the rest of the world for a while if it helps you be at peace.  And even though I like to keep up on politics, world news, and social issues, and read a lot of internet media from differing perspectives, I don’t watch the packaged, sensationalized, beating bass drum of doom that masquerades as “news” on television.  With the exceptions of 9/11 and the space shuttle disasters, I haven’t wasted so much as 30 minutes of my life on that crap since grade school. 

    Somehow, almost like magic, I have found that I am consistently happier, more contented, less paranoid, less depressed and stressful, and strikingly better informed on general history, politics, and current events from the local to the global, than anybody I know who relies primarily on tv and radio productions, or their associated websites. 
    It almost seems as if a regularly scheduled flood of dramaticized factoids from a handful of similarly-biased  sources serves to close minds and impair critical thought.  It also seems as if even just leisurely but thoughtful perusal of the varied perspectives available on the  internet and by talking to people in real life can help open minds and make critical thought more likely.
    Something like that!

    Remember, life and the world seem a lot, lot worse when you constantly see everything that goes wrong all across the world every day, but only see good things when they happen right in front of you.  You can’t let that imbalance poison your perception. 


  • labman57

    It’s curious that the Religious Right’s perception of God appears to be one of an ego-centric, malevolent, micro-managing sadist — somewhat akin to how many of them treat their wives.

  • Fuck, I lol’d

  • I see a little shillouetto of an dick
    What a Douche What a Douche
    Do you enjoy being an asshole?

    No seriously you make people that oppose violence look like massive shitheads. I hope you enjoy breathing out of your mouth.

  • Craig

    If only that were trueJsmith48

  • Steven

    “Sheeple”? Seriously?

    I mean. I’m an “enlightened atheist” just like you, but jesus-on-a-stick that sounds stuck up and stupid.

  • Fundamentalist nonsense…Rick is hardly a “moderate”. He shares the same theology as James Dobson and Pat Robertson, he is just more personable because his audience and potential customers are less rigid. 

  • When people believe in after life, they act like it.

  • Bamore62

    I’m not sure of Warren’s intent here, but how does his statement necessarily argue against evolution? In this short snippet/tweet it’s very unclear what he means. I could fully agree with all of the scientific evidence supporting evolution, and still agree with his implication that students should not be taught that humans are no different from animals. I would not have to look very hard to find as far back as the  13th century in Catholic teaching (Thomas Aquinas) that human beings would be classified as animals, but noting the tremendous theological, social and moral differences between human and animal. I’m sure with just a brief search I could find earlier statements.

    Perhaps Warren was not speaking against evolution, but rather against a purely materialistic view of the human species. No soul, no objective morality, no transcendent nature – this would be the tragic thing to teach our students. Teach evolution (I’m all for that, as a science teacher), but teach them that humanity is indeed different from the animals (I’m all for that, as RC clergy).

    I don’t know if I agree with what Warren is saying here, because there’s not enough information. Let’s not let the only mental exercise we do be jumping to conclusions (to parapharase one of my favorite comedians, Danny Kaye).

  • http://richarddawkins.net/articles/825-the-god-debate

    If you’re asking me do I believe in evolution, the answer is no, I don’t. I believe that God, at a moment, created man. I do believe Genesis is literal, but I do also know metaphorical terms are used. Did God come down and blow in man’s nose? If you believe in God, you don’t have a problem accepting miracles. So if God wants to do it that way, it’s fine with me.

    — Rick Warren

    This is in a debate with Sam Harris.  First time I’ve read it.  Geez, not that I had any doubts, but 1/4 in and Rick is on target to pull out every logical fallacy in the apologetic suitcase.

  • rlrose328

    The constant Mormon header and side ads are much more annoying… but yes, all I see are Christian ads on this blog.  NEVER have seen a nonreligious ad on Patheos at all.

  • rlrose328

    That’s a given.  🙂

  • rlrose328

    Yeah, I just scrolled past that discussion… it’s not worth stepping into.  Gun people, pro and con, scare me ALMOST more than religious people.

  • LesterBallard

    mmmmmmmmm chocolate

  • Oh, how I wish it didn’t induce migraines!

  • Pablo



  • Pablo

    Every time I hear that quote I think of this guy from the Japanese Tsunami. 


    There are lots of examples of this on the web.  In fact, I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure that humans are more at risk of dying from another human than they are from any other animal.  Is there a species of animal like this?  Is there an animal that is more at risk from being murdered by its own species than from any other animal?

  • Everything was so peaceful before they started teaching evolution in schools. I hear the first scientists to understand evolutionary theory started throwing poop at each other and things haven’t changed since.

  • polliwogg

    I had no trouble reading it.  Is English not your first language?

  • The_scribbler

     Love it. Perfect rejoinder to the idiocy of the Right. Now, if only we could get the rest of the Left to realize that the push-back against proliferation of high-powered weapons must be voluminous, continuous, and aggressive.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Where in this tweet does he say anything about the Colorado shooting ? He doesn’t of course but you will imply that to fit your agenda to attack him because of his stance on same sex marriage and homosexuality. Have you ever really studied what his church does to help people ? Are you aware of the food banks they have, the first responders they organize to assist in times of tragedy, the work they are doing to end the orphan crisis across the globe, the counseling they give to addicts, homeless, etc…

    I know, I know, you will say ye he does all of this but he believes homosexuality is a sin so he is an immoral bigotted monster. And you call yourselves open minded.

  • You know, you’re right.  Rick would never say something like that.  I’m sure he’ll be explaining that his account was hacked

  •  Oh, well, PETA. He’s clearly a loon… and not in the good sense of “some type of waterfowl”.

  • Bicycleguy2012

    He may have a point but animals don’t use guns. People use guns. If the Batman killer went jn to the theater and started beaten up people that woul be different. This pastor is narrow minded.

  • Rwlawoffice

    My question was where in this tweet is he mentioning the Colorado shooting. That is a figment of ya’lls imagination.

  • ChristopherBlackwell

    Dealing with problems the American way

    1 Figure out who or what to blame.
    2 Create a committee to study the problem.
    3 There is no third step.

    What is wrong with being an animal? It seems better than being a plant or a mineral.

  • I know.   I’ll grant it’s a bit of speculation.  I actually thought it was equally likely that he was referring to the notion that morals must come from God.  Having read his ‘debate’ with Harris, he does claim that even non-believers are infused with morals from God.  I seem to recall that’s also your position, but I could be wrong there.

    ok, but that’s not really our debate.  Our debate is over whether or not it was about the shooting.  After a new event that large, a tweet like that is going to be assumed to be related.  If he didn’t intend it, then he has really poor timing.  And I’m he’d correct it like he did the ‘joke’ one.  “No, that is not what I meant at all, at all”.

    And others with more than 140 chars to play with have gone half cocked with their crazy ’causes’.  So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think Warren would.

    So do we we have proof?  No.  But I do think we have waggling eyebrows suggestively and gesturing furtively while mouthing ‘look over there’.


  • No soul, no objective morality, no transcendent nature – this would be the tragic thing to teach our students. Teach evolution (I’m all for that, as a science teacher), but teach them that humanity is indeed different from the animals (I’m all for that, as RC clergy).

    If this is a Catholic school, then fine. That’s what I would expect. But a public school has absolutely no business teaching children to believe in souls or other supernatural things. It’s not the job of the government to dictate religious beliefs. That’s not “tragic;” that’s separation of church and state!

  • He seems to have gotten the impression that all atheists are members of PETA? I wasn’t aware that animal rights had anything to do with atheism. Someone forgot to tell all the Christians who volunteer at shelters and rescue organizations that they’re doing something wrong. If they were real Christians, they’d go ahead and exploit the animals as their god intended.

  • Rick Warren has left a comment about his tweet on my blog (yes, it is really him, logged in using his Twitter account) suggesting it related to something else. I have shared his comment and my response on my blog here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2012/07/rick-warren-responds.html

    Please do spread the word, since this conversation seems worth continuing! 🙂

  • Tim

    Rick Warren responded on James McGrath’s blog. Turns out he was responding to a question about sexual promiscuity, not commenting on the shooting. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/exploringourmatrix/2012/07/rick-warren-responds.html

  • Food banks with food that’s one day from going bad, sending BIBLES to orphans (like that’s gonna help), the “counseling” that consists of “turn to JEEBUS, you filthy sinner”?

    Yeah… that’s just sooo “wonderful”, isn’t it?

  • Rwlawoffice

    You really should do your homework before you comment. Study saddleback church and all they do across the globe and then see if you can discount their work so glibly.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Fair enough, but I find it ironic that such unfounded speculation occurs on a cite supposedly founded on rationality that only beliefs things for which there is evidence.

  •  Guess you missed the part where I agreed with you, but felt that I should just point out that the generalization wasn’t necessary.  Sorry you’re so butthurt, they make creams for that you know.

  • I have. They don’t do anything without turning it into an opportunity to preach and push their tyrant of a “god” on people. And the “services” they provide are sub-par.

  • Though given the circumstances it is understandable, we really do need to be careful about making assumptions. After all, Warren didn’t actually refer to the CO shooting. Until I read a comment pointing it out, I completely missed this point. . . .

  • Well not only are we wrong about this one, but you’ll be amused to know that I’ve facepalmed to three other cases of so-call-skeptics peddling bullshit.  From quack cancer, to “Obama killed OBL”  Yes, the latter was  intentional hyperbole, but when I pointed out that it’s not accurate, I got some angry backlash about ‘the left’ snatching defeat from the jaws of victory by worrying too much about honesty, while ‘the right’ lies to win.

    In the end, we’re all, ahem, animals. 

  • peteywheats

    Of course we are different than animals. They don’t need to create belief systems for themselves apart from reality.

  • amycas

     The creationist ones can be accurately classified as “sheeple”

  • amycas

     “When it comes to war and genocide, we have no equal in the animal kingdom. ”
    You clearly have never studied ants before. 🙂

  • amycas

     I agree with most of this. Of course, I still love my NPR.

  • amycas

     I think it has to do with the fact that the ads are generated based on key words that show up all the time, and the fact that Patheos as a whole is for religion blogging, Christianity being the majority–Christian ads show up. If nobody clicks on them, then the ads will eventually be tailored to what does get clicked.

  • amycas

    With a name like “eggheadw”, who could possibly think you’re a troll?

  • amycas

    Seeing as how evolution is only accepter by about 50% of the US population, and in the UK that number is over 90%, wouldn’t you expect there to be way more violent crime in the UK than in the US? And yet, we don’t see more violent crime in the UK. In fact, since Darwin published on his theory of evolution, the violent crime rate in most Western countries has been decreasing (with fluctuations over time of course). Care to explain these discrepancies?

  • amycas

     Teehee, saddle-backing…

  • amycas

    Two more steps:

    4 ????
    5 Profit!

  • Jeremy Chappell


    Rick Warren has attempted to clarify his tweet. He claims that he was not aware of the Aurora tragedy at the time, and was not reacting to it. Others have pointed out from his earlier tweets that he may have been out of the country at the time, so this may be plausible. 

    Now, he may still deserve criticism for not adding any context to his tweet. He definitely deserved criticism for this line of logic (whether it was aimed at violence or sexual promiscuity). But I see no reason to ascribe views to him that he does not claim to have.

  • Gods help us if they ever develop nukes…

  •  And I see no reason to believe a word out of that lying con-man’s mouth.

    Sure, NOW he’s claiming it has nothing to do with the shooting. Awfully convenient, that…

  • jdm8

    I dont thing Americans can throw stones at Nazi Germany’s gun laws in that regard. Blacks in the US were denied the right to own weapons for a very long time.

  • And in light of the shooting do we expect that Rick has now changed his mind? Or are we simplly saying he would have shown the good taste to refrain from his rhetoric in light of the shooting news? Either way, he’s still a scumbag.

  • The Other Weirdo

     I watched Resident Evil. I know that no good comes from that sort of thing.

  • The Other Weirdo

     Or to participate in competitions. Or just to learn a skill.  I’ve known people who owned guns. They never killed anyone. Never even hunted.

  • The Other Weirdo

     Is your objection on the efficiency of it, then?

  • Joelando11

    There is a difference between biological evolution and philosophical naturalism. One is scientific and the other is a presupposition. The teaching of biological evolution did not cause this tragedy–the growing philosophical naturalistic mindset in our society contributes to the nihilistic and ammoral actions of its members. The statement, “students are taught they are no different than animals,” is not a scientific or biological statement–it is a philosophical one. And a society’s philosophy does impact the actions of its people.

  • Jimmy Fingers

    Of course, the shooter is a Christian. What has Rick Warren to say about that?

  • The Other Weirdo

     Incorrect. It is, in fact, the Mormons.

  • Pascale Laviolette

    I think Alex was too, yo.

  • Might I suggest a new reality TV show called “When Pastors Attack”?

  • The Godless Monster

     From news reports:
    “It is reported that a semi-automatic rifle jammed during the attack and
    the gunman switched to a weapon with less firepower, possibly saving
    some lives.”

    And there you go.

  • The Godless Monster

     In fact, the first gun control laws were enacted in the south with the intent of depriving the African-American community with the means to defend themselves.

  • NewAtheist

    All objects are “morally inert”, unless you’d like to admit to your personification fallacy…

  • The Godless Monster

     Something tells me that he’d like to have his cake and eat it too.

  • Ivescleanfields

    I’m not a Rick Warren devotee.  But I think he meant that:  like the murderer Jeffrey Dahmer first killed animals and took their warm sometimes beating hearts into his hands, then graduated to killing people and cutting them up to hold their organs–claiming he learned in H.S. Biology class that humans are just a slice (no pun intended) of the animal kingdom, therefore it must be okay to kill them and dice them, like we do ham and eggs, steak, fish, veal, poultry.  …Regarding animals shooting other animals, as some commentors below opined, No, they don’t do that (but some might if they could invent guns/knives/poisons/bombs).  Animals CAN be grizzly (heard of the grizzly bear?) and kill not only other animals, but human beings.  Many voters still feel humans ARE very important and not to be slaughtered.  So in the pioneer days, it was, and is, okay to kill a charging wolf or a rabid skunk.  And today it should be okay, when driving 70 mph, to NOT dodge a squirrel just to save it, thus rolling your car, and ejecting your child in the back seat out the window to their merely possible death.  My theorem is that humans have souls and are more important than animals.  (By the way, animals don’t have souls so don’t “murder”; humans do sin and murder.  Accordingly, vets/authorities DO put killer dogs “down.”)   It should also remain okay to kill germs in your armpits with soap or deoderant, or to kill germs in your mouth with Listerine, even if those germs might one day, very theoretically, evolve into an Albert Einstein.  It should remain okay to swat mosquitos which can spread malaria or simply bite your infant, kill animals which can spread disease, etc.  It is NOT okay under the law, to take a HUMAN life.  …You don’t have to live by my philosophies, in many instances; just don’t make me live by your philosophies, either, especially your “evolution is good science” philosophy.  Physics, chemistry, medicine are predominately GOOD, solid sciences.  Evolutionary biology is quack.  Where did the first cell membrane come from?    Evolutionists like to say some warm amino acids prove a cell could form.  I doubt it.  But I ask a tougher question:  where did the first cell membrance come from??  A cell cannot survive without a soft, semi-permeable, perfectly complete cell membrane.  Not to mention: it cannot live without certain organelles, nucleus, nucleolus, and recently discovered FACTORIES of mechanisms inside the nucleus.

  • Ivescleanfields

    1.  Col. 3:23 says “Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself.”  A true, good (many religious folks are misguided and non-Christians, even imposters) Christian would honor others thusly.  2.  But the Bible clearly teaches we’ve all severely broken the ten commandments, including the two which Jesus summarily called “greatest commandments” (love God, love one another).  So, good one, God needs to “clean” us!  “Though your sins shall be as scarlet, they will be white as snow”–if you and I repent and turn to Him.  Bill Mahrer is right.  Most religions (except one) ARE wrong and bogus (and dreampt up/manmade).  ONE, Biblical Christianity (Christ), paid for/delt with our sins.  No other religion shed the blood of the Lamb of God, paying for the sin of, as I understand it, the chosen.  As I understand it, You’ll repent if you’re chosen, and You’re chosen if you repent.  “You did not chose Me, but I chose you.” –The Carpenter from Nazareth, named Jesus, the Lamb of God.  See/read the book of John in the New Testament.

  • Mr. Warren is of the multitude of willfully ignorant religionists in America who hold back the progression of science and hence, of knowledge and thought in this country.  He is an anachronism who should be left alone in his dark dungeon of mythology, mysticism and cruelty.

  • I sometimes wonder if the best course of action for a mindful atheist is to just leave the theist alone and ignore them. After all, OUR numbers are growing; theirs are shrinking. Reason and logic are winning out over time, so THEY are the ones who need to get on the bus or get “left behind.”

  • Is it legal to own a 155mm howitzer, according to the Constitution?
    Asking for a friend.

  •  No, not according to the Supreme Court. A 155mm howitzer is what is known as a “gun” or artillery piece. The 2nd Amendment -as interpreted by the Supreme Court (and those with common sense)- refers to small arms; specifically those deemed suitable for personal protection/self-defense and are held in the hand or shoulder fired and do not belong to the class of “destructive device” or AOW (any other weapon). An example of each would be a hand grenade (destructive device) or sbr (short barreled rifle – an “aow”).
    If you disagree, then take it up with the Justices and the BAFTE.

  •  oops…BATFE

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