(In response to this post)
Sure, it’s a lighthouse. And people are moths….
It is, in the sense that light houses emit a narrowly focused beam of man made lumination meant to alert us to danger. What they fail to tell anyone though is that A) natural light does a much better job of showing whether or not there’s rocks below and B) the lighthouse owners put those rocks there themselves/the rocks are imaginary.
I can’t help but think of Carl Sagan’s “The Demon-Haunted World: Science As A Candle In The Dark”.
Far from being lighthouses. I see institutions like the Catholic church as a great suffocating darkness, striving to snuff out the candle of rationality.
Good point. The Cornish used to be notorious in olden days for putting up fake lighthouses specifically to wreck ships so they could loot the remains.
“There is in every village a torch – the teacher; and an extinguisher- the clergyman.” – Victor Hugo
More like an outhouse
Well, like a lighthouse, it is run by a lonely single man who talks to himself and wears funny hats.
Yes, but the bulb burned out long ago.
Outhouse is closer to it – considering what it is filled with. It may give temporary relief to the user(s), but as the crap piles up, it stinks all the more. It sounds like many catholics hold their noses, rather than just flushing it entirely.
1. Someone is not a bigot just because they think a behavior is wrong. Are you a bigot against Catholics because you think their behavior is wrong? I would say that you are not. Though you would be a bigot if you thought you were better than Catholics because of their sin.
2. Do you understand why they do not believe in contraceptives? It might make sense if you take the time to look into it.
3. I do not think the Catholic Church claims that legitimacy comes from scripture. That would be a protestant position.
4. The Church encourages you to question tradition. You have free will and can question whatever you want. It also encourages you to honestly seek out truth and to analyze its teaching in their entirety before you disown it altogether.
5. I don’t get the last one. Does the church own people? Where did you get that information? Please elaborate.
Very expensive silly hats.
Someone is not a bigot just because they think a behavior is wrong.
I’m sure the LGBT community appreciates their tenderness towards them.
>>Do you understand why they do not believe in contraceptives?
Oh yes, I’m familiar. Are you familiar with why we think they work, better than what 1Flesh was recently blathering about?
>>I do not think the Catholic Church claims that legitimacy comes from scripture.
I only added that in there because the good Mr. Pope brought it up himself in his reply to Hemant. “Now the word “legitimacy” comes from the Latin legis, meaning “law.” In the Catholic realm we find the sources of our law in Scripture and Tradition.”
>>The Church encourages you to question tradition.
Yeahhhhh, no. Mr. Pope spent a good amount of time pleading TRADITION R SPECIAL. Take it up with his argument if you would rather not see us harp on it, too.
>>I don’t get the last one. Does the church own people? Where did you get that information? Please elaborate.
From Mr. Pope himself: “Perhaps our friendly atheist thinks that arguments from the world are the legitimate arguments. But “the world” is not a “legitimate” (i.e. “legal”) source of the moral Law for the Church. We draw from sources of Scripture, Tradition and appeal to the Natural Law both to confirm the rectitude of our beliefs and to demonstrate to unbelievers the rectitude of our positions.”
Owning people is in the scriptures, Old and New. Tradition held owning people. It was not until recently that people have bucked tradition and scripture and ousted capital N Natural capital L Law.
Arguments “from the world” are legitimate when it comes to rights that are not granted from scriptures and traditions, like ending slavery (which obviously is still being fought) and marriage and equality for gays.
And ceasing this silly crusade against contraception and birth control.
A lighthouse leaves most of the world around it in darkness, and surely, the interior of the lighthouse is the very darkest place there is. In both these respects, the analogy connecting a lighthouse to the Catholic Church seems pretty fair.
I’m not interested in 2-4. I’m here to address number 1.
“Someone is not a bigot just because they think a behavior is wrong.”
You people have gotten away with this slander for FAR too long. It’s time you people were expected to give a COGENT DEFINITION of what “wrong” means. Because you are NOT using it correctly.
I don’t have any issue with SOME of the things that the church labels “wrong”. Go ahead and call murder “wrong”. I don’t want to be murdered, I assume YOU don’t want to be murdered, very few people would want that to happen to them. We pretty much ALL universally want to avoid being murdered, so it makes sense to call that “wrong”.
Same goes for stealing, and for lying. No one wants their property taken from them, no one wants dishonesties heaped on them, so it’s “wrong” to do that to other people.
Easy, right? Mostly self-explanatory. I don’t know WHAT kind of cruel and ignorant barbarians need to have someone ELSE tell them that these things are wrong.
But, homosexuality? You need to explain how this is “wrong”.
And NOT because “god said so”. EXPLAIN it, the way I explained murder and theft and lying, above. Easy, self-explanatory. Can you do it?
Can you explain WHY it’s so “wrong” for people who feel same-sex desires to pursue them? What is “wrong” with mutual decisions made between consenting adults?
Why is it “right” to expect these people to pursue something that holds no interest for them? Why is it “right” to encourage the climate of hatred, violence and exclusion that gay people experience?
The church is completely unclear on why it’s “wrong” for people to build for themselves the lives that suit them best. The church gives no explanation why it’s ok to treat innocent people as if they were convicted criminals. We have NEVER been told WHY gay people exist, but are not allowed to BE gay. Could you give it a try?
It’s NOT bigoted to believe that a behavior is wrong, provided that the behavior is ACTUALLY WRONG. But being gay does NOT wrong anyone.
You CANNOT simply say that it’s “wrong” to disobey god. If you’re “wrong” about god even existing, then you’re condeming good people for NO REASON.
If you want respect for your religion, then you’d better come UP with a reason.
here’s what they usually say:
-you get more STDs and HIV
-you don’t know real love, we’re sad for you missing that
-you’re sick, you just need help and jeebus can fix you
-you’re evil and should be eradicated and don’t deserve compassion
-gawd says you’re evil and should be destroyed. often.
and my personal fav
-i’m one of you. i hate myself so much because i can’t tell mythology from reality and i don’t want to. but i’m so ridiculous, i’m going to talk about things i do, like looking at gay porn and trolling parks for anon sex, because i’m fooling myself that no one will notice my obsession like i try to fool myself in doing.
HELP HELP I’M BEING OPPRESSED!1. Someone is not a bigot just because they think a behavior is wrong. Are you a bigot against Catholics because you think their behavior is wrong? I would say that you are not. Though you would be a bigot if you thought you were better than Catholics because of their sin.Thinking someone is wrong isn’t bigotry, it’s your intolerant attitude and actions that make you a bigot.How about homosexuality then? Bible says kill them gays. Have you done your share today? Why not? God commands it – wouldn’t want to go against god’s word, now would you? Atheism doesn’t have anything to do with the catholic church’s bigotry. Stay on topic.2. Do you understand why they do not believe in contraceptives? It might make sense if you take the time to look into it.To make as many “children of god” as possible. They have no sense or care of overpopulation. Not to mention how many child-bearing age catholic women DO use contraceptives. I’ll bet that number isn’t zero. Does that make them “Not A True Christian®” catholics?3. I do not think the Catholic Church claims that legitimacy comes from scripture. That would be a protestant position.So just where does your “legitimacy” come from?4. The Church encourages you to question tradition. You have free will and can question whatever you want. It also encourages you to honestly seek out truth and to analyze its teaching in their entirety before you disown it altogether.No, it doesn’t. You’re expect to toe the line of the church and not ask questions about the validity of transubstantiation. Don’t ask about Noah’s ark. Don’t ask for an explanation regarding the virgin birth. Make sure you never ask for clarification on the contradictions presented in the bible. And don’t EVER question the priest. NEVER EVER. Yes, I’ve been a catholic so I experienced these things first hand. To say they don’t happen is disingenuous. Their job is to keep the sheep in line and nothing more. Control. Over women, over children, over those who aren’t fat old white men. That’s why it’s called a PATRIARCHY.5. I don’t get the last one. Does the church own people? Where did you get that information? Please elaborate.The bible also states women & children are property.Another cafeteria christian trying to defend the indefensible.
Damn the lack of formatting…
“You keep using that word”
The purpose of a lighthouse is to warn seafarers (people) to steer clear of the dangerous ground it is built on. Assuming the church is the lighthouse and its teachings is the ground it rests on, then this analogy is appropriate.
Please excuse me for butting in, but since this is a thread about Catholics I thought I’d ask for a hand here.
I’m debating a
Catholic at the moment, a Fr. Longenecker, on his blog Standing on My Head.
He has posted an
article which I felt I ought to address, in which he argues that the gospels
are historically reliable and trustworthy.
Would anyone like to
join in the debate?
Hmmm. Sorry about the jumpy writing there.
I suggest you read Bart D. Ehram. He is a religious scholar who has written extensively on the questionable accuracy of biblical scripture. Basic conclusion = the gospels are not reliable and trustworthy