Should an Atheist Complain About a ‘Church Bulletin’ Discount?

I agree, and find this quote especially ironic 
“I don’t consider it an earthshaking affair, but in this area in particular, we seem to have so many self-righteous religious people, so it just annoys me[…]”

Take out the religious part and I think it describes the complainer.

I never understand why people are so quick to condemn the person who complains about these things.

Is it only ok when they are in High School?

Easy fix, don’t eat there.

What about those places that offer “ladies’ night” specials?

What a douchebag. 

It’s different from Ladies Nights and Senior Citizen discounts because the federal laws that address “privately owned facilities that offer food, lodging, gasoline or entertainment
to the public” (aka public accommodations) prevent discrimination based on national origin, race, color and religion only. Gender and age are not protected classes in this particular area. 

This complaint has been going on for over a year now.  It’s just now coming to light because John filed the PHRC complaint.

He
didn’t “rush off” to do anything – The fact is that they refused to do
anything about it for nearly a year before John put in an official
complaint, even after the FFRF sent them three letters.  If you read the FFRF link, you will see that this issue was brought to the FFRF in April of *2011* – Hardly rushing off to do anything.

The PHRC
isn’t like filing a lawsuit – It is a mediation board – Designed to see
if there’s any merit to the complaint, and to work to come to a
resolution in a fair manner, or to refer the case to the court system if
there’s merit to the complaint and a compromise can’t be mediated.

Meh, if that cafe wants the church crowd, they are welcome to them. All the waiters and waitresses who I’ve ever talked to say that the Sunday church crowd gives the least tips and is the most demanding of all their customers. 

Religion is a protected status.  As is sex.  Age is, but only if one is over 40 (and only for employment?  I forget).  So bringing in a ticket is just a coupon.  Anyone can go to a show and get a ticket.  An old age discount isn’t discriminating against an old person, it’s discriminating against young people, and young people aren’t a protected status.

Ladies night? Hm.Heck, service members get lots of discounts.  And I’ve even seen that extended to ‘heroes’ which sometimes includes teachers.

The phrase ‘choose your battles wisely’ comes to mind. If the restaurant had been allowing only bulletins as coupons since its opening, it *might* be cause for offense- however this is not the case. For an atheist to raise a stink about this impacts our image in a negative way, imo.

Easy fix, Black people.  Just sit at the back of the bus.  You’re going to the same bus stops, right?  Who cares if Whites are given preference for seats?

Seems female only discounts are legal in some states, illegal in others, including Pennsylvania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies'_night#Pennsylvania

 …melon…party?

My opinion is that you don’t eat there & pass on your experience to other non-religious (maybe even religious) people. Find a place (and I know there are tons) who would be grateful for your business.    I think a letter to the business owner would be fine.  Even one to the newspaper. I don’t know; threatening legal action seems a bit much.

(for all athiest) jesus says the last is first and the first is last this
sign tom me means everything is ironic for balance for example
the sun makes you dark so light makes you dark, working out
makes you weak afterwards, when you lose one of your senses
the others become stronger for balance, in places with high
altitudes theres days with more sunlight and theres also days
with ,ore darkness for balance young people do alot of drugs
wich makes you old, taking a shower makes you dry so geting
wet makes you dry so repent now and get baptized now! please
share

Those are actually illegal in many states and in the UK.  It was considered illegal in general, in violation of the 14th Amendment and then the Civil Rights Act, until September 2010, when Hollander v. Copacabana Nightclub was thrown out by the 2nd Circuit Appeals Court.  

I think you can even download those from the FSM site. That might elicit an interesting reaction.

 Huh?

My thoughts exactly

Thing is (and I’m not agreeing with the atheist in the above news story), the Civil Rights Act of 1964 essentially prohibits privately own businesses from discriminating. So this isn’t really an issue about whether it’s a private vs. government-run business… but rather, whether or not the CRA covers this scenario. Which I don’t really think it does.

Uhh.

Wut?

The college town where I live tried to do away with Ladies’ Nights a few years ago.  The result was that bars started having “high heel” and “shaved legs” nights… and yes, some college men wore heels or shaved their legs to get free drinks. 

“$5 off for white people” or “$5 off for native-born citizens” or “$5 if you bring your Quran”

Imagine how outraged people would be by those promotions, regardless of whether they were offered to everyone in practice.  The promotions themselves would shock the conscience.

The website is advertising price discrimination, and under Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, price discrimination based on race, color, religion and national origin is illegal.  I guess it’s a question whether advertising discriminatory behavior is OK if you don’t actually carry it out.  I’m sure someone at the FFRF knows this better than either you or I do.

Age is not a protected class under Title II of the Civil Rights Act, so Senior Citizen’s discounts fall outside it.   So do Ladies’ Nights, since sex is not a protected class under it either.  However, Ladies’ Nights are illegal in Pennsylvania as they are in many other states.  

The only reason people aren’t more outraged by this is the pervasiveness of religious privilege.  There is still an assumption among a large part of the population that Christianity is the right religion and that that those who practice it deserve special treatment. 

What a douche bag! Who are you to say whether or not we decide to eat there as a result of this? Free market, yo.

Just to nitpick here… most times anyone can go to the church too. 

As an atheist I would much rather sit through a 90 minute church service for free  wings than sit through a movie like The Brides Maids.

We have public accommodations discrimination laws.  Those apply to private businesses.   So, I fail to see your point.

 No true atheist would ever step into a church just get a 10% discount off their dinner.

Great now we have an atheist version of this whinny bastard everyone hates.

Sexual Stealing – The Daily Show with Jon Stewart – 02/08/07 – Video Clip | Comedy Central

 This is a ridiculous analogy. White people don’t ride the bus.

 It’s not protected by the 14th Amendment because there’s no state action with a private public accommodation.  The Federal Civil Rights Act doesn’t count  sex as a protected class for public accommodations discrimination, but many state civil rights laws do, so many state courts have ruled Ladies’ Night promotions illegal. 

Hey folks, I say if we’re going to complain about this, we might as well complain about the war too. It seems to be a religion-inspired war that’s being funded by tax dollars paid by ALL U.S. taxpayers. If that’s not a state/church violation, I don’t know what is. It’s the violent kind. I say why not go after ALL the state/church violations out there.

From the comments of the owner, I gather that it’s just not thought out that much. I don’t think there’s any intent to discriminate. The thought process was more likely something like “what can I do for my next promotion? Oh, you know a lot of churches give out flyer/bulletin/things every Sunday… maybe we can get a lot of people to come in by offering a discount if they present those.”

I think this is an example of overzealous claims of discrimination… something that we, as a community, need to tone down on. This kind of thing actually lends weight to the term “militant atheist”. :/

 I think it’s an interesting question.  It does seem to be offering discounts (giving preferential treatment) for one particular religious group, xians, since they are typically the ones who have their religious meeting on Sunday and use bulletins.  

All any defense lawyer worth their money is going to have to do to defend against any complaints or lawsuits against the restaurant is subpeona the video included in this article and play if for the judge and jury.

Two quotes of interest from the video:

It’s not a big deal in itself”

I do bear a grudge against the religious right…”

 The fact of the matter is that Mr. Wolf has admitted that he never dined at the restaurant in question, that the discount isn’t a “big deal” and that the only reason he is complaining is a “grudge against the religious right” pretty much makes any lawsuit/complaint a nonstarter in my opinion.

Someone should tell Mr. Wolf that it doesn’t do his case any good to go admitting things like the above on video and it writing as it tends to undermine ones case.

More men should shave their legs and wear heels. 

Well, the problem is the bulletin  isn’t actually free to the public.  It’s there for the use of the people attending the service.  Also, a church isn’t really open to the public, not in the sense that stores and restaurants are suppose to be.  So, if they knew your intent for being there was just to snag a bulletin out of the trash then they could bar your access.  I’m not saying that’s likely, but that’s part of the idea behind the question of if this discount violates public accommodation. 

This reminds me of that dude who sued bars to stop ladies’ nights.

I agree with you. The discount wasn’t for “Christians only”, it was just anyone with a church flier.  If the discount is so important, just go to a church and grab a flier. They hand them out for free, no questions asked (usually). 

I’m not sure it’s fair to target this one particular restaurant, but overall I do want to see religious privilege removed from secular society completely. 

I don’t think we need to tone anything down at all.  In fact, I think more of us need to stop being silent. 

I’m pretty certain anyone could obtain a church bulletin with minimal effort. I know of very few churches who quiz you before letting you in through the doors. Most are so eager for fresh meat that it’s a “come one, come all” policy. They’d probably be thrilled to have an atheist come in who might inadvertently absorb some Jesus vibes and get converted. 

 That’s the thing, his rights are not being infringed upon. He is not owed a discount and he wasn’t even being denied a discount. The owner just wanted to get more business; he could have brought in anything, even an FSM bulletin from the web and gotten the discount. 

This guy assumed he was being discriminated against and was resentful of all the ” self-righteous religious people.” He should have talked to the business instead of assuming the worst.

“$5 off native-born citizens”

The reminded me that many places often offer discounts to residents in the state (and often requires valid ID to get it).  I’m trying to remember if those are only places which receive tax money.  Do you know if it’s legal for private businesses to offer discounts to residents?  Or does it even matter as it’s not actually touching on a protected class?

I don’t think it’s discriminating by religion. The discount wasn’t “10% off for Christians only” it was just a discount for anyone presenting a church bulletin…which easily obtainable. Heck, an atheist can just go to the local UU church and snag a bulletin if it matters that much to them.

 The fact is that the late morning and early afternoon Sunday lunch crowd is huge business in most places.  People are leaving church and want to go have a bite to eat with family and friends.  It seems natural to me for a restaurant to market for the church crowd.

Also, I would be surprised if they didn’t give everyone a discount regardless of whether or not they had a church bulletin.   To deny the discount would just be bad business practice, regardless of one’s theology or lack of.

To this last point I’m reminded of a video by the guy who founded Farrell’s Ice Cream Parlors.  “Give them the Pickle!”  The idea there is basically to make your customers feel great, don’t sweat the small stuff, give everyone a little extra.

That’s good business.

Sorry for the typos. “Argue against something I don’t like” is what I meant to write. 

 And let’s not forget, to the best of my knowledge, no one is complaining of actually having been denied a discount.

Technically, the church could prohibit them from coming into the church and stealing church property.

You may not think so, but you actually brought up a pretty good point. If you have a special for people wearing a uniform that incidentally may only be allowed by one gender, is that still discrimination? It’s worth talking about, even if not in the context of the above article.

People who make the argument that there are “more important things you should be doing” REALLY irritate me.  Yes, and instead of sitting at your computer typing that inane comment you could be out selling all your possessions and moving to Africa to feed starving children with AIDS. 

Lady, there are always other battles to be fought and though this may seem to be petty to you, I happen to think it’s an interesting legal question.  AND I also don’t think it’s petty because it goes directly to the idea and legal standing of religious privilege in our society.  I think fighting to remove all vestiges of that privilege is an important fight and one more people need to start participating in.

 Are we cousins?

I love how the guy in the video says he doesn’t want any particular outcome except as regards more tolerance and understanding.

And who says atheists are irony-impaired?
 

Nope not about religion, more like its about rare earth metals, who’s got em “the Taliban in Afghanistan” and who they are selling them to, the Chinese. Its may also still be about building an oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan to the Arabian Sea to avoid Iran, brought to you via Halliburton and it subsidiaries.

Actually, if you read the comments many people address how this is different than other discounts.  One reason is that religion is a protected class.

That’s not really the point.  Religious building are different than private businesses because they do have more freedom to discriminate than others.  If they knew your intent was just to take a bulletin and leave then they can bar your access to the bulletin and therefore to you receiving the discount.  Also, the bulletin is something produced by the church, at the church’s expense and it’s use is reserved for those attending the church service. 

What you’re saying sort of proves my point because for an atheist to get the discount they must lie, sneak, steal and risk harassment for their lack of religious beliefs in order to obtain a bulletin.  Therefore, the discount can be seen as discriminatory. 

Or an atheist could just go to a UU church, which is welcoming to atheists.

 That would have been an interesting test.  However, the offer is only good on Sundays and stipulates it must be current.  The intent, I’m sure, is that it must be dated for the Sunday you go to the restaurant.  Still, what does “current” actually mean? 

I’m fairly certain that most churches take the position that the “house of God” is open to all, and they would be happy for you to take the bulletin, as it helps them to spread “the Word” so I think your argument doesn’t fly.

Do you get so worked up over places that give a discount to people displaying stickers from a local high school or sports team? You aren’t eligible for every discount and promotion that’s out there. Get over it.

Well, I’m sure the lawyers will make it all better.  Personally, I find the law to increasingly be a poor guide.  That which is proscribed is not necessarily bad; that which is condoned in not necessarily good.  In short, to borrow from Dickens, the law is an ass.

Well, it depends.  The thing is that someone would still have to go onto church property under false pretenses and take a bulletin intended only for use by those attending services.  Further, if the person was honest about there intent the church COULD legally bar them from the property.  Also, the person could face harassment do to their religious beliefs when trying to acquire the bulletin.  The problem is that the discount requires alot more effort and relative risk for an atheist than a christian.  So, it does discriminate based on religion. 

I’m confused as to why so many atheists want to support any form of religious privilege in secular society. 

Also, I’m seen MANY churches NOT be welcoming to many different people when I was a kid.  A church is NOT really open to all as they can discriminate.

 If it makes you feel any better, I don’t care that you don’t care, but then, you probably don’t care about that either.

I respect those men. 

I would like to see if it is different these ways…

“10% off with church bulletin”
“10% off with mention of blasphemy to the Holy Spirit”
“10% off for people with mohawks”
“10% off for women”
“10% off for people who look muslim”
“10% off for Vietnam veterans”
“10% off for people who hate Barack Obama”
“10% off if you wear a Lakers jersey”

In some cases the very notion is awful. In orher cases it is incredibly benign. None of them are technically illegal, though a few most certainly can be challenged. Illegality would come if they required nonchristian, nonatheist, nonladies, etc, to pay more than the set price, which is not the case. General discounts to specific groups does not hinder the freedom of other groups from basic business interaction which was agreed upon the second they sit down and say they agree to the meal with the price next to it and by the waitress saying “you got it”.

It may be offensive to atheists to see that christians are given preference, albeit the same benign preference ladies have at bars on ladies night, but this is still a country where a business can also offer a discount for people who blaspheme the holy spirit, and a country where both are still able to be protested by groups who find them offensive.

While also being aware that it is important to act on all encroachment and discrimination, I think this is vastly different than being denied or having hindered service because of ones belief/hairstyle/jersey.

Religion is a tool. Please people stop being so daft.

Even Atheism is part of that tool kit because it engrosses our minds and keeps us from looking at the whole picture.

Muslim Radicals do exist but they are not fighting a war to spread religion they are fighting a war to stem the spread of western expansionism. Religion is the guise they are using to inadvertently spread their own expansionism. China, Russia and Iran are quickly becoming post modern industrialized nations. Many of the Arab nations are too. They will need viable resources that we want.

Viable resources? Viable means “cheaply obtainable natural resources”, a rare commodity these days. Non Viable is stuff that costs a lot of money to get out of the ground, almost always it’s not cost effective.

Religion is a “stupid stick” the more it is used to beat indoctrination into your head, the more stupid you become and the less you ask intelligent questions.

Like where are we going to get more rare earth metals to supply our silicon revolution?

China, well yes, but the Chinese hold a monopoly on the market and are charging a premium. Just like the Taliban would do if we could build that oil pipeline or start mining their vast deposits of rare earth metals, plus then we would be condoning their backward religious behavior.

So how does a government get it’s citizens to support an unethical war of expansionism, tell them religious radicals are threatening human-rights in some backwater 3rd world country.

War is about expansionism and natural resources, it has pretty much always been about that. How its packaged to the tax payer is always a lie. Muslim Radicalism is the new lie.
 
This is all public knowledge, easily obtainable, as long as you have an open mind empty of religious indoctrination.

Don’t be a tool.

How many extra flyers do you think they print just to be used as a coupon? I don’t think it’s right for the restaurant to expect anyone to do that if they hadn’t gone to church in the first place. You want to get your discount on a technicality, whereas they shouldn’t be providing a church-attendance-based discount in the first place.

The coupon is to bring your current church flyer/bulletin – it’s pretty much giving promotion to get people who used to go to church to get back in the pews. I know people very commonly do go out to eat after church, but something about this flyer also encourages church attendance among the less-regulars. Not simply a matter of going to a church and getting one, but encouraging people who haven’t gone to church for a while to go back, that the restaurant deems this good or correct. It’s not something I take as lightly as how hard would it be to just pick up a flyer on my way over to this restaurant because I deserve a discount too. How about something less… obvious? Discount with recent receipt from Wal-mart.

We have a local restaurant that gives discounts for what used to be “church bulletins” but is now “any bulletin.”  One can literally write the word “bulletin” on a piece of paper and get the discount.

Age is a protected class too. That does not preclude senior discounts at private businesses. All that is going on here is that a business is targeting a market and promoting an image. There is nothing stopping businesses from giving discounts to attendees at atheist or secular conferences when they are in town. There is nothing preventing businesses from promoting themselves, if they feel it would be profitable, as atheist friendly or reason based establishments in order to attract like-minded customers. It is a time-honored business practice to make such efforts to appeal to particular customer bases.

It would be a big mistake legally and also strategically for atheists to waste time trying to block such practices. There is no point; nobody is being harmed. Military discounts don’t hurt my feelings because I’m not in the military. Senior discounts don’t hurt my feelings because I’m not a senior. And discounts for church attendees don’t hurt my feelings because I’m an atheist. It doesn’t seem rational to me to get upset about this particular case.

This. Dude needs to build a bridge and get over himself. He’s also ineligible for Lady’s Night drink specials, is he going to whine about that too? It’s just a ridiculous tantrum over a non-issue.

Tuna melt?

It’s my understanding that restaurants will give you practically anything to stay, if you have a complaint and threaten to leave. People talk about their restaurant experiences. The staff wants to know if you have any problems (that’s why they constantly ask), so they can buy you out of saying anything bad about them to your friends. Also, the manager doesn’t get the tip, the waiter does. Did the waiter treat you poorly or the management? I realize you are speaking hypothetically, but I’m confused why you would reward or punish the server for the management’s policies and how when the issue was raised, accommodated your patronage with a discount.  

The fact is the guy got his equal discount for merely complaining that he was naturally excluded from getting one for being an atheist. Haven’t you ever been offered free dessert before? There are scammers who live their lives complaining at restaurants just to get free food. In a better-case scenario, you’d get the discount and a free appetizer, never run out of bread, and you might even look like you’re still angry and get a coupon to come back when you are feeling better. They want you to say nice things and not be mad at them anymore.

I understand why you and the others don’t think that it’s religious discrimination and I strongly disagree.  At the very least it’s religious privilege, and christian privilege at that since the discount stipulates a current church bulletin must be present on Sunday.  I don’t know if Mosques and Synagogues typically use bulletins, but they hold their gatherings on Saturday.  So, unless they can present their bulletin for a discount then they are being discriminated against.  Of course, that’s why the discount should have been tested before making a complaint.

Depends on the the state…

And that stuff is nasty!

That was the FFRF, not the whiny guy who was miffed at having to bring a Church bulletin to get a gumbo discount. This guy doesn’t seem much different than the other man that tried to sue Ray Comfort for selling bumper stickers that offended his atheist sensibilities. Choose your battles. If you have a problem, learn to communicate with the people you are having problems with. I’m embarrassed for FFRF for taking this matter seriously enough to send letters to the restaurant.

I attended the Imagine No Religion 2 conference in Kamloops earlier this year and a local restaurant (don’t remember the name) offered a 10% discount to any conference attendees who showed their name badge.

How is this any different?

 Discrimination based on gender.  Other people address it in the comments here. 

No.  Sometime in my late 30s  that wonderful “I don’t give a damn what other people think of me” switch was turned on.  And I live in the South, where I am told more times than not to “have a blessed day” after every transaction I make.  That being said, I also wrote recently that I changed my stance on this whole situation.  Not because I would feel uncomfortable, but because the present dialogue coming from the restaurant makes it obvious to me that this was not an honest mistake on their part.

 They’re free to associate.  Eliminating religious privilege has nothing to do with denying them their basic rights and freedoms.  It does, however, address the SPECIAL privileges they assume in our society.

Actually, we have brought privilege into the legal sphere on many times.  It’s just we’ve never really addressed religious privilege in that way before.

So, while I agree with most of this post, I am not sure I agree with a religious bulletin being an indicator that you must worship the deity it relates to. It’s something I’ll have to give some more thought, but we get several church bulletins in the mail, even though we’ve never gone to a church.  I am an atheist with a church bulletin, not a worshiper with a church bulletin.

We also get several e-bulletins from local churches, including Thomas Road, because we like to keep track of what kind of crap they’re up to now so we know what our next fight is.  I have several months worth of AWAKE! sitting on my nightstand because they’ve recently addressed some issues in religious terms that intrigue me (in the same way that certain TV shows do: I can’t stop watching because it’s just so bad). Again, I am an atheist with a church bulletin. I don’t worship a deity, the bulletin isn’t indicative that I do so–it’s just something I read.

Oh, look, word salad! It’s like my awesome dinner salad, but with less substance and more bitter fruit.

Cyclists and swimmers are some of the best conditioned athletes.

 If it’s different at all, it’s in that you generally have to pay to attend conferences and get a name badge, making that discount in fact much less accessible to the general population than a church bulletin would be.

I haven’t read all the comments.  My first thought was ‘don’t complain’.  Really, I don’t qualify for AARP (yet and thank goodness) and I don’t say ‘hey, old people get a discount, why don’t I”.   There are quite a few discounts that I/we don’t qualify for and I don’t begrudge those that do (and in the case of free/reduced school lunches or other low-income discounts I kind of have sympathy for them).

Our town has a ‘single mother’s oil change day’ on or about Mothers Day.  I don’t qualify because I’m not single.  My response is ‘good for them’.  I also hope they don’t only get it changed that one time a year.  And, yes, this is a sexist practice.  I do know how to change the oil and would if I had to, and I bet there are some single men that may not know how. 

I know it is just a ‘one instance’, but we had someone here complain about getting reduced lunches when she hit 50 (our schools used to do that for seniors, they could get 2 or 3 reduced school lunches per week).  She made such a stink, that they took away reduced lunches for all
the older people.  Now, seniors that are truly in need can’t get a $1 or $2 lunch.  She’s a huge/devout/judgmental christian. 

Can he go in and say ‘hey, I’m not a church-goer, is there something I can supply to get the discount?’  I mean, if it was for drumming up business, wouldn’t they be happy to have a
customer?  I would think you could at least ask.  Nothing ventured you know.  I’ve gotten discounts that way.

Sam

I’m confused why you would reward or punish the server for the management’s policies 

I wouldn’t punish the server.  I only suggested adding the 10% to the tip, making it at least 25%.  Why reward the server?  Build good will for atheists?  I generally don’t like the idea of ‘buying goodwill’, but the fact is, I’d be inclined to pass on at least part of the savings in any case.

I rarely eat out anyway.  In fact, the last time I did was at a get-together after an atheist author gave a talk.  The server ended up refusing the full tip because it was so big.  Everyone was overestimating their portion of the bill/tip/tax.  I don’t think anyone was doing it ‘on purpose’ since the source of each portion was pretty anonymous.  We were all just tossing money into the pile.  We ended up giving what the server wouldn’t take to the organization that got the speaker.  So who knows, maybe atheists are good tippers.

The fact is the guy got his equal discount for merely complaining that he was naturally excluded from getting one for being an atheist.

No, he didn’t even try.

He said was considering eating there, but never did 

 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22religious+privilege%22

There’s a tea room in Occoquan, VA that offers a similar discount w/church bulletin.  I went there once with my mother – we joked that we should bring a church of satan bulletin.  Didn’t even occur to me to complain…

oookay. Good luck in eliminating those actions, and the thousands of other examples even less amenable to your position you decided not to hilight, via the legal sphere without trampling on basic rights and freedoms.

Ah, your Christian privilege is starting to show.  You’re trying to present churches as something benign, open and friendly, welcoming to all and you’re expecting everyone to see them this way.  Some of them may be OK, but definitely not all of them.  I grew up attending Southern Baptist churches.  My parents even helped to found a church.  So, I’ve seen many different churches and been witness to all kinds of behavior, from generous to nasty, from the people there.  I’ve seen people kicked out or at the very least interrogated based on the way they were dressed. 

From the way the ad is worded it could be declined as it would not have Sunday’s date on it.

 Well, if the papers were only available at churches and not places that must allow access to the general public, then yes.

The restaurant owner is free to believe in whatever she wants.  However, she’s not allowed to discriminate based on religion.  That’s against the law.

I think this makes us Atheists look like Whiners.  If they had turned him away OK but the owner is trying to get business.  This is still america.  All I know the food must be Really good to make an Atheist eat there with such a sign in place.

Good for them. Shall I bake them some cookies? The case in question is in PA. What other states agree or disagree with doesn’t much matter.

So, again I ask: your point is…?

 A few atheists  show up.

Doubt anyone would want your gloom cookies. 

Your point seems to be that the idea of Ladies’ Night being discrimatory is ridiculous.  Since several states have determined it is discrimatory that point is really invalid since it’s not at all a ridiculous idea.  That PA hasn’t done so is really NOT a valid point at all.

Plus, it doesn’t matter if PA has determined Ladies’ Night to be discriminatory or not since that’s not the issue with this at all.  This is about religious discrimination.

. 

 “Your point seems to be that the idea of Ladies’ Night being discrimatory
is ridiculous.  Since several states have determined it is discrimatory
that point is really invalid since it’s not at all a ridiculous idea. ”

Because everyone knows that no state law could be ridiculous.

And besides, who can argue with an appeal to authority?  Like Aquinas said, “The argument from authority is the weakest form of argument, according to Boethius.”

Also, nice personal attack. Are we in high school again?

Fine, go take a nap, the grownups are trying to talk.

No, it’s not DOA.  This isn’t a test case, there have been plenty of these filled before.

 Oh, so you’re leaving then?  I mean if the grown-ups are going to be talking, you should probably go cover your ears.  You might hear things that you disagree with or dislike!  Heavens, we can’t have that now can we?!

Oh and just for a fun fact, I don’t entirely disagree with you on the idea that Ladies’ Night drink specials are discriminatory, but your whole premise that just because other states say so makes it somehow truth is a joke.  Learn to argue better.

The bigger point here is that this guy is an attention whoring drama queen.  He’s fully able to walk his rear into a church on a Sunday morning and snag a bulletin if he just *has* to have the discount.  And don’t even start on the ridiculous BS you were trotting downthread about how church members would bar him from doing so because that’s just laughable.  He’s not being told that he’s not permitted to eat there, he’s just not qualifying for a particular discount.  I don’t qualify for a senior discount, do you see me crying and pounding my chest over it?  No, because I’m an adult and know how to act like it.

A lesson it seems both you AND Mr. Wolff could do well to learn.

Bull–you think “religious people’ actually go to church?  They would have to go look for the bulletins too or print up their own or look online.  Nobody goes to church.  Find out how many churches are near this restaurant, that’s why they’re doing this.

I agree with your suggestion of bringing in a atheist flyer. I’d bet the restaurant would accept it.

Above all else I think this I just an old grumpy man complaining about something

It might sound illogical, but current means current. A special discount for Sundays doesn’t mean a program from last Sunday. I accounted for weirdos who think they are getting over on the restaurant (and I think strange for atheists to go out of their way, and a little bit rotten for Christians), but I think mostly they’ll assume you’d been to church that day and most of the time, not 100% of the time, be correct.  Kids don’t usually go to a restaurant without an adult. Adults who may not have been to church in a while may be incentivized to go back.

Meanwhile, I do think it’s nickel-and-dimeing, but on the principle of the thing, the ad states a public preference the restaurant has for the religious beliefs of its patrons. Whether or not people “cheat” to get a discount is not really what’s at issue here.

Huh. I was just thinking earlier today whether I should check out the local UU church. Now that you mention it though, I can see it being a bit uppity (still might check it out though). It reminds me of one college class I was in and people were supposed to bring food the next day. One girl raised her hand and said, “Just be careful you guys because some things like honey aren’t vegan.”
Idk. I’m liberal and tolerant and everything, but it seems like when big groups of people like that get together, they’re so worried about every tiny little thing and they expect everyone else to be too. 

I wouldn’t say that any atheist is necessarily in support of this, it just doesn’t bother some of us that much. Plenty of stores or restaurants offer discounts to sports teams, college kids, ladies nights or whatever. People are “discriminated” against all the time if they’re not in these special groups.
I just think that if you start saying that you can’t offer discounts to certain people, the logical conclusion is that you can’t off

 PA doesn’t allow Ladies’ Night specials.  Bars can call a night “Ladies’ Night”, but they need to offer the same specials to men and women alike.  That’s the law in PA as in many other states.

If someone’s immediate reaction is to call in the dogs over the most minor perceived slight, you’ve got issues that go way past not getting a 10% discount.

They would, and on similarly shaky ground.  We’d be pointing out the obvious and mocking the Christian idiot complaining for having the typical persecution complex.

What if it was a show marketed to, created for, or primarily attended by members of a particular gender, religion, sexual orientation, skin color, or national origin?

 And bringing in a church bulletin is just a coupon. No profession of faith required. She’s trying to drum up business on a typically slow day- the obvious thing is to do something to attract a market which often eats out on the day.

 No, it’s just only OK when a the law is actually being broken.

You see, public schools are an extension of government. There would be an actionable complaint if a public school offered a discount on school lunches specifically to Christian students.

 Can’t disagree more. It’s a private enterprise, not a public taxpayer
funded institution. They’re just trying to drum up some business – and
whether our small but growing minority think this particular idea is
good or not is immaterial. Let your patronage (or lack thereof) express
what you think.

They have a right to do this. And no, I’m not in any way “conditioned” into this line of thinking. The law is pretty straightforward in this area.

I regularly receive a 10% discount from the garage I take my car to, simply because I am left handed. Do you want to whine about that? How about the ridiculous discounts (and free bus passes) my father gets, simply because he’s older than dirt??

 !@$! Even worse! Now they’re guilty of abelism *and* discriminating against non-Christians! Maybe even discrimination based on national origin. Is it a coincidence that they’re excluding everyone who can’t write “bulletin” down on a piece of paper or are they just broadcasting “we don’t want your kind here!” to those with various mental and physical disabilities, those who don’t write in English, etc?

 The thinking there was probably, “If we give them a discount, they’ll have more to tip with.” Pipe dream…

My wife used to wait tables at a “family restaurant” back in grad school.  On numerous occasions, customers who ate there after church on Sunday would tell her, without a hint of irony, that they weren’t leaving her a tip because she “shouldn’t be working on the Lord’s Day.”

It just says “current church bulletin” I would assume that anything from that week would be fine.

Wow, just saw this today at my local Hallmark.  10% off on Sunday if you bring your worship bulletin in.  I commented to the clerk that I was not aware that Hallmark was a christian store.  Her initial response was, of course, we have some christian things but, but she didn’t get what I was saying.  I pointed to the flyer, to which she responded that she hadn’t seen that.  Really?  Doesn’t matter.  But I said what if you do not have a bulletin?  Isn’t that discriminatory?  She just smiled and said yeah.  I said I would steal one.  She didn’t laugh.  

Public accommodations laws apply to private businesses, not just state actors.  Also, handedness isn’t a protected class under Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.   I really can’t figure out why people keep making false claims and bringing up irrelevant unprotected classes.  Is the legal situation here really so hard to understand? 

 Kinda my point, y’know?  Lawsuit = overkill IMO.

Again, ANY church or religious bulletin would get you the DISCOUNT, if you happened to watch the interview this morning (christian, muslim, buddhist, pagan, lack of a god, etc.).

Take your business elsewhere, as there is NO need for YOUR persecution. Different companies offer discounts based on policies of their choosing. I can get discounts being a military member. Are you going to INFRINGE upon my receiving a dincount somewhere because I am military?

Throw thos ENTIRE discussion out, as it is so PETTY your oxygen shouldn’t even be used to perpetuate it! Enough said…

Yes, Mr. Wolff should raise the issue with this restaurant owner as others have done to try to make positive change and raise awareness in the open marketplace of ideas.

To address some of the points Hemant brings up and some of the more interesting posts in this thread:

Mr. Wolff is 80 years old, so no, he doesn’t look like Brad Pitt, and no, the mere contention over this issue doesn’t make him a grumpy old man willing to die on this hill to the detriment of atheists everywhere and the atheist movement in general.

Those are mere ad hominem and non-sequitur.

He calmly and quite reasonably addresses his motives and the valid points he thought it would be worth bringing forth with the help of the FFRF by sending a letter.

Who brought this into the public media arena and the motive for doing so is unclear.

The fact is that no one should have to bring in an atheist flyer and wait to see if they’re rejected or not, when the offer (as stated by the owner) is specifically for religious folks on a Sunday to bring in a bulletin from their “church or synagogue”.

A distinction that, by inference, rejects atheist flyers, or any such documents from Buddhist temples or Muslim mosques – do they even have bulletins?

If the element of the special service and value only applies to those with church/synagogue bulletins, then it is discrimination against those who don’t abide by religious traditions that have such items and those who don’t abide by any religious tradition at all.
Those outside do not receive equal service and value based upon the religious distinction.

Humans will, at some point be children and senior citizens, so may receive a discount based upon age.

Certain classes, like LGBT, race and atheists, should not have to change who they are and what their views are in order to receive equal service and value as a public accommodation.
Note: this doesn’t apply to private groups who receive no public funding, we’re talking public businesses here and as the Civil Rights Act applies.

In short, the fact that the owner specifies special service and value for religious folks in her community on Sunday to bring in their religious document (a “church or synagogue bulletin” is hardly secular) that promotes their religious itinerary and “messages” is the nuance that violates the Civil Rights act regarding public accommodation and the specifics of protected class.
As for the business marketing tool the owner posits as her intent…wouldn’t “10% off all day for everyone” be even better?

I disagree. If it says church and you happen to go to a synagogue, mosque or temple, bring whatever flyer they have there. 
If the discount was for “bring a toke from your curling club” no one would bitch about it. And non-curlers would laugh and move on.

discounts are never inclusive. that’s the point of discounts like that. I don’t qualify for seniors discount nor military discount. 
Anyway, my actual comment here: I find wheelchair access so much more important than 1/2 off wings. That’s real discrimination.

print out your own bulletin this is a ridiculous wast of the courts for sure.

for me a bullentin from my church Babarambaba and my deity Ralph.

 What is it with you people who think that private businesses can legally discriminate?  Have you been asleep since 1964?  Wake up.

 There’s still a legal question as to whether the establishment can advertise the promotion as a “church bulletin” promotion, even if, in reality, they accept any type of bulletin.  The mere advertisement of “church bulletin” would probably alienate non-Christians and have the EFFECT of discrimination.

Ha!!

Private businesses deserve a high level of autonomy as they aren’t funded by tax payer money. 

Why in the world would anyone support a law that makes it illegal to offer discounts to church going people? It’s purely draconian.

No.  If they want the discount just go to the church, grab a bulletin then leave.  Then eat! WIN!  Or you could just dig through the coupon section of your newspaper and find a discount for a whole plethora of restaurants.

You ARE  being whinny unless it is your contention that atheists are devoid of logical thought?  There is NO discrimination here,  There is no church that I know of that limits attendence to members, or even believers.   A large point of a service is to convince NONbeleivers to believe.  So there is no barrier whatsoever to a person dropping by a church and picking up a bulletin.  After services there are quite a few just laying around.  So you don’t even have to listen to the service
quod erat demonstrandum

For xians (and sadly, many atheists) to understand, we need to frame it as requiring them to enter a mosque or synagogue in order to acquire something to use as a discount for a secular purpose. Almost all of them would feel very uncomfortable having to enter such places without express invitation or, at least, honest intent (theft of church property is NOT honest intent].  There’s a very strong sense of religious privilege at work here, even among atheists, that churches are somehow special places that are always open, friendly, benign.  However, for many people, thinking about going to any religious institution outside of their faith would elicit some discomfort.  A mosque is perceived with wariness (at minimum) for most xians, just as a mostly white, Southern baptist church would generally be a place to avoid for a black muslim.  Some faiths even prohibit contact with people outside of the faith.  Those people too would not be able to take advantage of the discount.  While atheists are not under dogmatic prohibition to enter a church, doing so, especially under false pretext, could violate their conscience.

Most people who view this issue as petty seem to have failed to look beyond the surface and see the larger, deeper implications this has for the place of religious privilege in secular society.

Well, it can’t be a bulletin from a mosque or synagogue as they don’t meet on Sundays.  The discount also stipulated that the bulletin be dated THAT Sunday.  So, that also means you can’t bring in an atheist flyer from last month’s meeting.  Also, a “bulletin” usually implies more than just an ad or flyer for something; it’s a program, a schedule for the service.

What if the coupons were posted on a bulletin board out of reach of someone in a wheelchair?  What if the restaurant owner said that the coupons were freely available for anyone to take, they just may have make some extra effort to acquire them?

(yes, the above is much more egregious, but the point is that while an atheist may be able to physically get to and enter a church, that morally, ethically, conscientiously, they may not be able to do such a thing)

Hey, a cat can dream, can’t she?

Age is not a protected class under Title II of the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Neither is gender. Please read the other comments posted above which explain this in depth.

 Come to think of it, I don’t eat at Spring Creek BBQ anymore for similar reasons.

I hope that every church in the area would go and support them – not just on Sundays – and tell them they’re praying for them too!

So, maybe I should start filing a lawsuit against all those restaurants that have a children’s menus, because they are discriminating against my age…oh yeah, senior menus too! Retail stores everywhere have coupons for specific items…you don’t get the discount without the coupon. Is that discriminating against the guy who doesn’t get the newspaper for coupons? The church bulletin in this case is nothing more than a form of coupon…if you want the coupon, go into a church on Sunday morning, let the greeter hand you a bulletin and walk out! Or, if you want the $2 off the ham at the store, go to the convenience store and grab a newspaper to ge the coupon….SAME DIFFERENCE. You have to go out of your way for both. In this case, however, you are required to pay for the newspaper, but you don’t have to give money, attend or owe the church you grab your bulletin a cent!

There is a HUGE difference between being “white” (something you did not choose but are by nature) and being religious or not (something you freely choose to believe or not). If people treat you differently because of what you choose to believe or not, get over it! Religious people have been treated differently for all of history – sometimes favored, sometimes not. It goes with the territory, and whether you like it or not it goes along with your freely chosen beliefs, too.

Because it’s not about getting the discount. It’s about the restaurant stating a preference for customers of a religious belief – continuing a policy that’s illegal. Why is everyone so stuck on how easy it is to get the discount? 

 They would still grant the discount, brush off the incident (trying to keep good PR), but keep the ad which says “church flyer.” If the owner doesn’t see what the big deal is, why would she not take it down or re-word it or think of a new promotion?

Hey you need to get you one of those bible’s those christians read and put it on your night stand and every night read Psalm 14:1 & Psalm 53:1 and then you will know what there God thinks about you! 

Your common sense is really lacking.  Common sense says its just a coupon, not a discrimination case.  The guy didn’t like the restaurants policy so he went somewhere else.  He has the freedom to eat somewhere else so the restaurant should have the freedom to offer coupons however they want.  Get over it already!

 If the restaurant can simply drive away business from customers they don’t want, and then calling them names for complaining about this illegal policy, what would you do if the ad went unchallenged and all the restaurants did the same? The thing is, they think they are getting away with something because they don’t come right out and say “these people are banned.” They don’t actually ban anyone, and they most likely offer the discount when even slightly challenged. Basically, you are looking at an ad to think where you want to go for dinner. Hey, this ad says “SPECIAL”, but you have to bring your church bulletin. I guess I know where I’m not wanted… They are trying to be clever to get around the law, the same law that forbids a restaurant from having a whites-only policy.

The real issue is not about a discount the real issue is your stupidity in thinking the resturant is out to get you when they could care less what you believe. It’s. Simple. Eat somewhere else. God loves you.

Oh please…  We’re not talking “race” or equality  here, we’re talking about giving someone a discount – which hardly equates to segregation issues.  In fact, I think most blacks would cringe at your thought of minimizing their segregation ordeals of the past into an atheistic rant of missing a discount on some Jambalaya.  

 It’s the same law that applies and this is how they are getting around it, since they don’t seem to actually ban anyone. Would you eat somewhere if you get a discount if you’re white? If you were black, would it be about the discount? Would you eat there if you could “pass” for white so you could get the discount?

YES for crying out loud… its private enterprise! They can do what they want with THEIR restaurant! Geez! Can we complain and criticize, sure, I support freedom of speech, too, but they are doing nothing illegal.

Get real if you business you do have a right to have coupons for just about anything you want.  Does a store discriminate when they have a Sunday morning sale when most got to church?  What about ladies night do you file against the business then?  What about the 55 plus discount does not it discriminate against younger people?  Why not just get over it!!!! Go to a differrent place to eat.     Grow up start your own business discount to who ever you want.
 

No the legasituation here doesn’t involve public accomodations or 64 civil rights act or free access laws. h us said bring us a bulletin, we’ll give a discount. Next week it could be bring us a shrubbery. ITS THEIR resturant! They can do this. THey can’t discriminate against those protected by law, of course. BUT religious beliefs or the lack thereof are not protected.

We might not like it, but its a FREE COUNTRY. I’d tell them I’m dissappointed if I REALLY wanted to eat there, but mostly I’d just move on! Now, what an uneducated idiotic Christian would do, I don’t know.

No it is the restaurant offering a discount for a limited to people with a church bulletin.  I doesn’t state you have to be a Christian, it doesn’t state you have to attend any particular church. It states if you have a bulletin it would be treated as a discount coupon.  

I am so sick of people trying to run somebody else’s business.  Do you have nothing better to do than to nitpick about anything that doesn’t happen to pertain to YOU?  YOU are not the center of the universe. We as restaurant owners are permitted to make specials.

I for one have chosen to  not be standing on the  PC wagon at all times. If your feels get hurt or you don’t like things, remember, LIFE IS NOT FAIR. IT DOESN’T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Things are never going to be equal in a free society. We are still a free society are we not? If they want a discount, produce a bulletin. If you don’t have one wait until your turn comes up. Suck it up and stop stomping your feet like a 3 year old.

It is illegal. http://www.citizensource.com/History/20thCen/CRA1964/CRA2.htm

The Civil Rights Act of 1964: Title II – Public Accommodation
 TITLE II–INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION(a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of
the goods, services, facilities, and privileges, advantages, and
accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in
this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of
race, color, religion, or national origin.

Where’s you’re “NOT illegal” cite? You don’t have one because it IS illegal, and you’re one ignorant ahole, shouting at me. U MAD?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#Title_II 

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/law___legal_resources/18980/pennsylvania_human_relations_act/725567 

Religious status is very much a protected under both the Civil Rights act of 1964, and the PA Human Relations Act, which is the actual law they are being investigated under.

Reading the PA Human Relations Act, I’m not sure a 10% discount that technically, everyone has access to, would count.  Obviously the PA Human Rights commission isn’t sure either, otherwise they wouldn’t be investigating it.

Are you aware of this thing we have in our society called “laws”?  Maybe you’ve heard of them before.  Laws impose legal duties and legal remedies.  If you’re not familiar with Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself with it before wasting people’s time.

 You know what’s so funny about all this.  The only reason any of you can even make these comments is because this country was founded on Christian principles.  Did you know that 52 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of
Independence were orthodox, deeply committed Christians? The other three
all believed in the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and
His personal intervention.People like to sound “intellectual” about this and make disparaging comments about Christians, but in actuality it’s because of Christian beliefs you live in a country where you can openly oppose the foundation of our country and not be persecuted.  It’s time to use a little logic – and by the way, I am educated and work 60 – 70 hours a week and, oh no – a Christian too.

The FFRF is the culprit here. They should have the good sense and character to tell the atheist to simply “get a life.” Some things you just have to live with. People like that simply are contentious and looking for something to gripe about.
Frank Brown

 How are you being discriminated against by this?  It is no different than a children’s menu or senior citizens’ discount.  Nobody said you can’t eat there OR that you are going to be charged MORE than a regular customer.  You just will have to put yourself out more to get a “coupon” for a discount than someone else will.  It’s ONE. DAY. A. WEEK. sheesh!

The only discrimination is against ‘stupid people”.  I am sure if an atheist really is concerned that thenuse or non-use of a coupon, he will be able to find a ‘stupid people’ lawyer as well, and end up wasting court time on yet one more non-issue. Get a life people! 

 I am really glad you are intrigued by their views.  Perhaps you will, one day, see the real logic behind Christianity and the real truths that you are continuing to deny, even tho, deep down, you are screaming to believe “something” put all of this earth together.  Even nature itself cries out to our Maker’s praise!  I pray you will get it, and not be too late when the last breath is taken.  But as long as there is breath, there is hope!  ………Why do you “fight”?  You are wasting your time on believers in God.  They have a hope and a real cause.  I apologize for those who take it so far as to show “hate”.  We are to show love to and pray for ones such as yourself, that you will see the light of Jesus and understand that you can’t work your way to another “place”.  When this life is over, there IS more, and as followers of Christ, we have the blessed assurance of spending an eternity in a wonderful place called heaven.  I pray you will come to see that truth one day.  Read the Bible as a real historical document sometime.  Go into it with an open mind and not by what your friends and profs have told and taught you.  See if the Lord will not show you His truth.  Go on…..give it a try!  I suggest the book of John, for starters!  Peace to you, Lifein Traffic!

 Did you say “making”!??  I don’t see anyone making anyone do anything.  Go to the restaurant and order your food, eat it, pay for it and leave.  If they want to give a church-goer a discount for presenting their bulletin, so be it!  No one made anyone else go to that restaurant and eat!  You have free choice to go and order off of the menu just like anyone else who goes in there.  I may be on vacation and go through there someday, and although i am a church-goer, I may not have a bulletin with me!  I pay the price asked and leave a great tip and get on my way.  No one “made” me stop there.  This is an “un-argument”!!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/atheist.asp

“The fool doesn’t check snopes”
– Rich 1:1

It seems to me you are not your own man. Do you always follow the crowd instead of being yourself and doing what you want? What about the kid’s discount, senior discounts, veteran’s discount, etc…..? If you did not serve in the armed forces, you are not entitled to any discount. Own up and take it like a man? maybe a child?

With all due respect to you sir. The ministry of all Christians is to love everyone including atheists. How can we draw some one to church if we show disdain and hatefulness to them, or to people who do not go to church. We would be failing in our ministry.  I believe that you have the right to refuse Jesus as that is a God given right. He will never forsake you for not loving his Son Jesus.  If you want to keep on being an atheist, go ahead, I will not hate you for it. I respect your God given rights.  But please, do not put all Christians in the same category, we are not all the same.

You show a remarkable lack of imagination.

http://ffrf.org/publications/freethought-today/articles/sharing-the-crank-mail-april-2012/ 

If he didn’t have the bulletin, he could have gone to another place to eat.  I believe that he is one of those who just wants to cause controversy.  Since many people do go to church on Sunday, it makes sense that this  might be a way of the restaurant getting people to come in and eat by offering a discount if you had a church, any church, bulletin.  The bulletin was no different than if a person came in with a coupon–it would have been honored on the same day.  We all have freedom to go and do what we want–even restaurant owners.  You shouldn’t be able to dictate how they run their restaurant!! If you don’t like it, you don’t have to go there, but don’t cause trouble for others just because you don’t like it. Life is full of offers for one thing or another. we shouldn’t have to worry about offending somebody all the time. You can’t polease all the people all the time. So get over it and let us live in the land of the free!

Shall I cut it down with a herring?

+1 just for Snopes. I’d give you more, but Disqus only allows me one “like” per comment.

 “….continuing a policy that’s illegal…”

You are an idiot. Private businesses giving discounts is no more illegal than it is for you to post your lunacy publicly. Although, come to think of it, perhaps your comments should be illegal.

 No, the idea that is offensive is the notion that an adult would craft an argument such as yours. That stupidity is as offensive as it gets in a nation that guarantees me the freedom to serve who I wish, to give discounts to whomever I wish.  Did you sleep through high school civics or are you just that illiterate as to so misunderstand the Constitution.

You ask what we are afraid of.  We are afraid of hating idiots like you continuing to downward spiral of this nation. The restaurant owner can offer discounts to people with green eyes, two heads or 12 toes.  They can offer discounts to people who own horses.  And, if they really want to drum up more business, they could offer discounts to certifiably ignorant and stupid people like you.  But then they would have to take food stamps for you to take them up on their offer….. oh well….

 You are an idiot.

 He probably can’t offer discounts to people with green eyes because there is a pretty clear racial correlation with green eyes and being white.  Race is one of the protected classes under Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. 

Sadly, you seem to think that what you learned (badly) in high school civics is the whole of the law.  It isn’t.  If you don’t know what the law is, don’t go shooting off your mouth.

It’s not even a church-state issue. The restaurant is a privately owned business. They can offer any kind of discount they want. You don’t have to eat there.

Has anyone thought about how trivial all of this is?  When I take my family of four out for Sunday dinner, the restaurant usually gets me for about $45.  A 10% discount amounts to less than $5.  It’s not enough for me to turn around and go home when I realize I left my bulletin on the kitchen table.  If a restaurant in town offered “discounts for atheists,” I just wouldn’t eat there.  Is common sense lost in this society?

So what happened to the freedom in this country to run your own business the way you want to? If you want to cast your vote against them, do so by taking your business elsewhere and maybe let the restaurant know that personally. Why  hide behind and unnecessarily use the court system to get what they want in life? That is not what the court system is for. 

I would go to the restaraunt, if they had good food, eat, pay the full price, and leave a good tip. I would be supportive of their business. While I was there, I would be polite and gracious. I would do this because I am educated, and I am pretty sure I am not an idiot. My education, both secular and Christian, has taught me to act in this way. In addition I have learned from the practce of these things that I have been taught, that this kind of behaviour makes me and all that I come into contact with, both non Christian and Christian, religious and non religious, more comfortable and happier.

For the 80th time in this thread, Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 – pertains to race, color, religion, and national origin as protected classes as regards public accommodations. Age and sex are not protected classes within this section. It has nothing to do with separation of church and state, I do know what that means, it’s the first clause of the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution. It is about how a public accommodation cannot discriminate the service they provide with regard to a customer’s race, color, religion, and national origin. If you open your doors to the public, you have no private religious rights to discriminate against serving any of those people. This does not take away your private religious rights or impose anything on your religious freedom to believe. And if YOU don’t like it, don’t make a business in which only part of the public is accommodated.

And do not try to say seperation of church and state because you do not even know what that means.

As Kodie says, it doesn’t apply here.  But when you say “you do not even know what that means”, what I think you mean is “I want that to mean something other than what you and the courts and most legal scholars think it means”.  You want it to be a one-way thing, protect religion from government, but not protect government from religion-“freedom of, but not from, religion”.  Amawrong?

Just because you don’t like what it means doesn’t mean we don’t know what it means.

 Kodie, who is not being served, or discriminated against?  Anyone can walk into that restaurant and be served.  If you have gotten a discount coupon out of a newspaper and use that and I don’t have one, is that discrimination against me?  If you have a ticket stub from some event that you can use as a discount coupon offered by the restaurant, am I being discriminated against?  If you want the church bulletin discount, get off your butt, get a church bulletin and get the discount, ANYONE who has one can be served, no one is being discriminated against!

 I am intrigued LifeinTraffic, by atheists spending so much time, energy, money, thinking and argument to try to convince others of something that does not exist.  If I believed something does not exist, I would not have to prove it to anyone. I would  just brush their rhetoric off as some superstitious nonsense and not waste my time, but keep out in traffic.

I’d agree with the whiny quality of this complaint.  I don’t like sports but have seen restaurant discounts for showing ticket stubs for local sporting events.  Sure, it tells me something about the business’s priorities but I don’t think that this sort of thing  is where the fight should be at the present moment.