Louisiana Republican: When I Voted for State Funds to go to Religious Schools, I Didn’t Mean Muslim Ones

We also need to ensure that it does not open the door to fund radical Christian schools.  Oh wait, she doesn’t care about that.

No big deal here in Canada. In Alberta, Catholic and Muslim schools get public funding too, along with public schools. They all must stick to the Province of Alberta education standards.

I disagree that it’s automatically unconstitutional for the state to (essentially) contract religious institutions to provide services. We’ve seen it happen plenty of times. The state simply needs to require the schools follow certain behaviors if they want to redeem the vouchers, just like it requires Catholic Charities not to discriminate when it takes state money to provide adoption services. Don’t want to play by the state’s rules? Don’t take the state’s money. I understand that in Louisiana’s case that’s not how the voucher law was set up, but there’s no good reason it can’t be.

Canada has so much going for itself !

Fucking idiot.

I’m sorry, that’s all I’ve got.

In the US, those schools don’t have to follow any standard though. They can basically do whatever they want. A lot of them are outright scams that just steal the money without providing any valuable service:

http://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/schools-for-scandal-fla-voucher-program-proves-a-boon-to-con-artists

It’s basically what a lot of people have been saying whenever Christianity gets some special privilege: “Just wait until a Muslim group applies for it”

Jefferson was most certainly a deist- for all practical purposes, an atheist. To suggest he was a “devout Christian” is the height of absurdity, since he made it clear in numerous writings that he was not a Christian, had little respect for Christianity (even outright contempt), and did not consider Jesus to be a deity. The most influential founding fathers- Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, Madison, Monroe- were all deists to a greater or lesser degree. Many were openly hostile to Christianity.

The revisionism comes in trying to pretend that our principle founders were Christian, or even more extreme, that the country was founded on any sort of Christian principles, when in fact it was consciously based around anti-Christian ideas.

They only need to be learnin’ three letter, US and A!

So much fun when they misread what their ideas do and it bites them in the butt

I’ve always thought the way to get “In God We Trust” off of money was to insist that we also print some bills with “In Allah We Trust”. 

Same principle.  If the government allowed one religion to express itself on money, but not others seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Would be nice to get back to “E Pluribus Unum”.

 Even the fundies disagree with you on Jefferson:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/thomas_jefferson.htm

I think it would be great if the Church of Satan suddenly applied for funds.

Now that would be a real shocker for these backwards religious jerks about how bad an idea this was to begin with. In fact, I think an Atheist group should get together a “shock squadron” of religious organizations which literally shock Christians to the core, such as Paganism, Wiccan, Satanism, Scientology, Mormonism, and a few others to apply for these vouchers all at the same time.

Seriously, I would enjoy the pain, frustration, and shock on these holier than thou Christians when they suddenly realize that they just got fucked by their own stupid law.

There should not be any funding for any religious schools. Separation of church and state! Get It!!!!!!!

Silly Christians… religious freedom is for everyone!

You just *know* that the first words out of her mouth when she found out went something along the lines of: “What??? Those Islamics have a religion too????”

Oops.  Law of unintended consequences again.

Hey u done sounds like one them thar comunistes. How dares use insults God’s kountyr!

  Where does the Treaty of Tripoli say that the founding fathers were deists?

RWlawoffice, you might want to do a little more study on the issue. Considering that the only colleges in America at the time were Christian it is very misleading to imply that anyone who went there must have been a devout Christian. That would be like me saying that everyone who has graduated from Georgetown is a conservative Catholic, or that anyone who goes to Baylor is forevermore a Southern Baptist. I went to the fundamentalist Bob Jones University for a year and I’m an atheist.

It really is strange to claim that Jefferson was a devout Christian, it just shows you haven’t studied him much at all. Christian revisionist historians like to quote-mine him as saying that he considered himself a Christian, leaving out the part were he says he is a Christian in the only sense that anyone should be, which is respecting Jesus as a human who was a good moral teacher. Washington is harder to peg, because he was extremely secretive about his religious beliefs. I read a whole book by a couple Catholics trying hard to prove that he was a Christian, but there logic was really strained (like them ending the book by implying that since Washington was very moral and “by their fruits you shall know them” then he was probably a Christian). Communion is a huge part of the Episcopalian Church and while Washington’s wife would usually stay for it Washigton always left before communion. There is some evidence that Wahington did pray, but it is absolutely unclear to me whether he was liberal Christian or just on the border between a general theism and deism. Even if he was a Christian perhaps he was like John Adams (the most obviously Christian of the first five presidents) who didn’t believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was eternally divine. You might want to read John Fee’s book on the founders, he is a history teacher at an Evangelical Christian college and can clarify many of your confusions on this issue (he also has a blog).

I apologize in advance for spelling and grammar errors in this post. I wrote it on my iPhone, which usually doesn’t work out optimally.

Not quite true that Jefferson had contempt for Christianity.  For the religious organizations of his day, surely (cf. Madison for equal contempt for organized religion).  But Jefferson did like the teachings of Christ, about which he said in a letter to John Adams in 1813:  “We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. ”

But given that he outright rejected the miracles and the divinity of Jesus, he can in no way be counted as an orthodox Christian.

 Hockey Bob,

You are wrong.  You have drank the revisionist kool- aid.  Look at the original documents and who the founding fathers were.  When you do that you will see the truth.  I have seen their writings and what others sere saying about them at the time.  As opposed to current academics who want to change history. 

Understand that i am not saying that the founding fathers built a Christian nation, what I am saying is that they were devout Christians.  they were not deists as Hemant and others claim.  that is simply flat out wrong.

I groaned out loud as I read this story.  

 Key word: Summum. They had a campaign to get plaques of their “seven aphorisms” placed on public land next to the ten commandments. Been a while since I’ve checked in on the progress of their court activity.

Has she never heard of the Establishment Clause?  I guess not.  If you elect people who are grossly ignorant of the law, this is what you get.

You’re partly correct. But I’m pretty sure instead of “Islamics” she used the phrase “ragheads”. Just sayin’……

I’m not wasting my time trying to educate you. Read Jefferson’s writings for yourself.

Do not confuse the degree of respect that Jefferson placed on certain traditions with his beliefs about Christianity. When this country formed, Christian institutions formed the foundation of much of its social structure.

I focus on a few because most of those who signed the founding documents were hangers-on. They were not the handful of men responsible for the creation of those documents, and who insisted on the core anti-Christian ideals they embody.

“And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the
Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed
with the fable of the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter. ”

Letter from Thomas Jefferson to John Adams
April 11, 1823

 “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.  ”

Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr
August 10, 1787

Clearly the writings of a devout Christian. Yep, atheists are the revisionists here.

No no, i’m pretty sure religious freedom is only for those who adhere to the the only “true” religion out there.

A few of the founders were devout Christians, like Samual Adams, John Jay, and Patrick Henry (who was against the ratification of the Constituition). But most of the big names were deists (Franklin, Hamilton, Monroe, Allen, Madison, Paine) or were very liberal “Christians” who didn’t accept that Jesus was divine (For example John Adams). Washigton was too secretive to say for sure, but it seems to me that he was probably a theist of some kind, but it is impossible to honestly call him a devout Christian (much less an orthodox Christian).

“Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative
Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want
“religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith.”

Indeed. 

It doesn’t, but it does specifically say that the US isn’t a Christian nation.

Off with her head!

That sounds like the same issue being fought over here in the US by the Catholic church re: forcing them to provide contraceptive services.  The difference is, the church is winning the battle down here, thus having their cake and eating it too (i.e. getting government money without adhering to government rules for receiving it).

Amazing…I can see the headlines now “Fundamentalists changing the face of America…one Mosque at a time.”

Great example buddy

I agree it is dangerous to just label people based on their Church attendance, Jefferson and Washington went to Epicospalian churches (irregularly). I wouldnt call either a Christian (Jefferson absolutely wasn’t) but I do think it is better to call Adams a Unitarian Christian and explicitly say he didn’t think Jesus was eternally Divine than label him a Deist, because if you look at what he wrote about religion it is more in line with the unorthodox Unitarians than most Deists.

Voucher program for muslim madrassas, ha!

 It is a big deal. In Ontario Catholic schools get funding. It’s wrong.We have separation of church and state. If you wish to educate your children in a religious school…you should pay for it. It is the very least we can ask that they at least adhere to some basic guidelines before we release them into the wild after grad.

They don’t want Freedom of Religion, they only want Freedom of Christianity!

 Stupid is as stupid does. If
you’re going to hold public office you ought to have an effin’ clue
about what the First Amendment to the US Constitution means.  It boggles my mind that someone could manage to get elected while being that dense, but apparently, to people like Valarie Hodges, “freedom of religion” means only that you’re free to be a Christian.

What does the quote from the Constitution have to do with this? Absolutely nothing.

The problem with these people is when they say religious freedoms they do not realize religious freedoms include EVERY religion, I do not know if you can call Atheism a religion or not (not judging just seriously curious, I mean I get they do not believe in any “God” but because religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.) so by the definition of religion Atheism is a religion but not many I know call their beliefs a religion as it tends to go against their anti god theory. I personally am a christian and I do believe in god but I also choose to let everyone follow their own path, I am not going to go thumping a bible at anyone just as I would hope no one takes their belief system and thumps it at me. I say live and let live. believe what you choose not what some one deems is the truth find it for yourself

I’m going to send a donation to a Sufi school in Louisiana, even though I’m an atheist. 

Don’t kid yourself, Bob – there are people like this in all 50 states. Having lived in 7 of them and three different countries outside the US, I have learned two things – (1) the U.S. is probably the greatest country in the world (at least it’s the best of the four I’ve lived in) and (2) there are idiots in every country and culture.

i do believe it has everything to do with it,since the stupid bitch assigned religion to the founding fathers

“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity…”
What a dumbo. This lady hasn’t read 1 biography on any of the Founding Fathers. Most of them did not even affiliate themselves with any organized religion like Christianity. For example, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were Deists. It is an insult to them and to the First Amendment to say what she said.

None taken

I’d avoid using the John Adams quote, it’s a quote mine. In context Adams is disagreeing with that view of religion.

HA HA HA!

Please let me know if you find one – I’ve been looking for Honest-to-the-Beloved Sufi schools for years.

It actually does. This moron is apparently completely unaware that the First Amendment applies to the states as well as the federal government, so that any time a state tries to provide funding of any kind to religious institutions, or gives them tax breaks or whatnot, such MUST apply to all religions or none at all. Choosing some and not others is a direct violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment, because that would be an act of government establishing religion and actively trying to prevent the practice of “non-approved” religions.

How the he** did she get elected?
 

seventh in literacy. Twenty-seventh in math. Twenty-second in science. Forty-ninth in life expectancy. A hundred and seventy-eighth in infant mortality. Third in median household income. Number four in labor force and number four in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: Number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next twenty-six countries combined, twenty-five of whom are allies.
greatest country in the world.

wake up, kid.

Totally disagree. Any red southern state does not count. When you have lived in Boston. NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, LA, Denver give me a call. We are not the ignorant morons you claim to have lived with 

So best Korea is best place to live then?

There are already Louisiana Church of Satan grottos.  All that’s left is to get them to launch a school!

Anton Lavey, founder of the Church of Satan, was heavily influenced by the works of Ayn Rand. I think Republicans could get behind that. 

she lacks concept of the constitution, the concept of founding fathers, and the concept of equality.  if I didn’t know any better I would assume she is a tea party backer.

I agree with you, but at least put quotation marks if you’re going to steal from Aaron Sorkin.

Seeing as Jefferson was a proper Christian and all, I suppose you would have no objection to Christian churches adopting his revision of the Bible as canon? The version with all the miracles taken out because they were obviously bullshit? 

I mean if Great Britain uses the KJV we may as well use a translation made by one of our great men! 

Uhm… A hundred and seventy-eigth in infant mortality. I’d say thats way better than first. Just saying…

i live in NYC. trust me, there are more ignorant morons here than you’d imagine. 

definitely not more than my time spent in north carolina, but certainly it’s fair share.

Fucking Republicans!

 Are you really that ignorant?

Best Korea does not agree with you.

“them children better lern ta speak good, an’ what th’heck, better lern ’em some ritin’ an’ nummers too. An’ b’fore they grajamatate, they better lern not to spit in church.”

Is it sad that I was able to read that without missing a beat?

The beginning of themis article is incorrect. The supreme Court ruled that the use of vouchers for private schools includes religious schools is constitutional.

He was being sarcastic, something I doubt the three are level headed enough to pick up on.

Ever heard of sarcasm?…jesus ya’ll are thick.

I picked up the sarcasm.

 Bad analogy. Allah is just Arabic for god. There’s no requirement for equal treatment of languages.

Has no one read the constitution? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

I’m a Louisiana Democrat (yes, we do exist). I’m not religious at all but I really, really want to found a Wiccan school, call it New Hogwarts, and apply for funding.

Louisiana is in line to become the new Florida.

You do pay for it. You report on your taxes which school system your kids attend, and that’s where your dollars go. And, unfortunately, the Catholic school system is enshrined in Ontario’s constitution, so we don’t have a separation of Church and State (though I agree we should!).

Where did you get that infant mortality number? The US is certainly bad there compared to other western countries, but 178th would make it one of the worst countries in the world.

The CIA Fact Book places it at 49th. Below western Europe, Cuba, Israel, Japan and South Korea, but above most of eastern Europe.

Well, sarcasm is a bit hard to detect within written text.

Sadly, they were way too optimistic about the direct influences of the Enlightenment on religion. I don’t think they could have imagined that in 200 years things would be worse in the US than then.

 When people say America is the greatest country in the world, they say it because of the amount of freedom people have. Go to Europe, try to start your own business, it’s a nightmare in comparison. In Germany I can’t even cut down a tree on my own property without first getting permission from the town.

And Citizens United was clearly also a correct interpretation of the constitution. The Supremes aren’t always right and sometimes they even change their own opinions. Sadly, in recent years they are on a bit of a theocratic streak.

The idea that mormons could be considered as nutty as scientologists is absurd. Having known people from both faiths I can say this for certain.

He said “the perfect satanist is really an atheist.”

Well, in Boston they’re wikkid retahded

Bill Maher said it best, “Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual position.” which is about as clear as you can say it. its the ABSENCE of a religious belief, not in place of one. 

 By appealing to hordes upon hordes of retarded hillbilly religious clods.

 There are plenty of places in America with the same rule, depending on the height of the tree

We’re so low ranked in infant mortality because in the USA if the infant has or was thought to have a heartbeat when the mother went into labor, it’s counted as a baby for infant mortality statistics – even if it’s so premature that other countries would have called it a miscarriage.  In many countries, even first world ones, infants who die in labor or even hours or days later are listed as stillbirths or miscarriages, and thus affect neither infant mortality rates nor average lifespan.

Can I purchase religion insurance?  Since she wants to insure against vouchers being used for religions other than Christianity.  Hahahahahahaha!

Rah-men.

I think you missed the part where ‘Arandir Nova’ was actually too stupid to know that the top of the infant mortality rate was not a desired image to portray.

She has probably read as much bible as she has history, which for the vast majority of Christians, is “not a lick.”

Idiot, did you even read the article?

Two wrongs don’t always make a right, but they are frequently hilarious.

I’m sad now. I live in Louisiana, I knew people were stuipt, but now know how far these assholes will go to get a damn vote! Am very sad and moving out of here as soon as possible.

And am a idiot. I miss spelled stupid and feel stupid.

dictated but not read

it’s ok man, i’m a satanist. As such I understand your pain because i love being in constant despair. they taught me loving despair and sadness in 4th grade so i can relate to you as a human of whatever religion you are. you’ll be ok

oh i bet those kids would know a lot about the origins of many of the holidays we know now adays.. considering most of the ones we celebrate still are

i’d love for my satanic kid to hang out with your islamic child and see them get along. Yours would probably be a computer programmer by 10 while mine would know all the best quotes from marquis de sade 

i live in minneapolis suburb.  they elected michelle “batshit’ bachmann and jesse “the body’ ventura.  not to mention timmeh pawlenty.  don’t tell me the land of 10,000 lakes isn’t swimming in stupid

Faith is not something we should be teaching children.

I think I read somewhere that Satanism is basically accepting that people have desires which make them sin, and teaches us that there is no shame in it, versus other religions which teach that you MUST repent for your sins. Of course. I’m an atheist, so I don’t claim to know this is 100% what the point of Satanism is.

I’ve learned that if I plan on flinging aroudn some (usually well deserved) insults that I better spell them correctly!  Otherwise, it’s just not pretty.

let congress just put the money where their mouths are and fund all religions to be equally allowable as a pursuit of happiness. Their decision would not be a direct law on religion since they would put money towards the collective fund of all religions and let them have a fair share

Closed minded “Americana Christians” make me wanna barf! I just want to gently set my spiritual teachings aside for a moment and slap the shit out of her!

i’d like for my kid to have faith in something so that he’s not anxious or depressed when he’s confused about something. How about math which is the most objective, definitive, and true? I want my kid to have faith in math. Any math based religions want to take me kid in? 

But, can she count to potato?

I agree, faith is not something I should be teaching children. I’m usually too tired to try to explain my kid religion, on sundays i just want to go to the ball game and eat ice cream with my family while we play i spy 666. i’d rather have someone else (like a true theologian) teach faith to my little punk

What the frak did I just read?

No one should be teaching faith to kids; better to teach them about the real world, science, evidence and how to test assumptions about the world.  Faith is unnecessary.

Can’t tell if (bad) Poe…or Troll…???

Apparently they won’t ever learn since they are desperately trying to create a despotic christian theocracy. 

Someone do this. PLEASE.

Well, they all do belong to the group which Summer defined as ones “which literally shock Christians to the core”. 

Though I find some of their politics more tolerable (ie, liberal), I still find many pagans as arbitrarily dogmatic as any other religious groups I’ve encountered.

 That’s not FAITH!  It’s confidence in your abilities, capabilities and potential.  It’s something you can test, learn about, hone, practice, etc.  It’s NOT fraking FAITH!

ok so..
“I have faith that 2+2 is 4”

“I have confidence that my wife is not sleeping with another man (but she is)”

what’s the difference between having faith and confidence. Can’t you have confidence in your faith? or faith in your confidence? 

Explain?

I’m 48 years old, but I would lie about my age just so I could attend that school.

Actually I know how I’m alive as a functioning organism, just not why. I don’t know how to be alive as much, I feel depressed about many things a lot of the time. 

Satan High?  Go Devils!

“Anyone who thinks differently than I do has problems!”

 We could sell the rights to Marvel (??) and have it say “In Thor We Trust”.  Then we can start printing some money with advertising and movie tie-ins.  I suppose it can only be the $1 bills since they have a high turn over and we’d want to sell the rights again sometime soon.

Not sure if your post is sarcasm, it probably is but I have unfortunately seen a few people make the same false claim. John Jay, Samuel Adams, and Patrick Henry are a few examples of Orthodox Christian founders, but it is true that most of the big names were Deists or Unitarians.

 Just so you’re clear–even atheists will use the word “faith” in casual conversation, however, they are not using it in a way that you so desperately WANT them to mean it.  I can SAY that I have “faith” the sun will rise tomorrow.  However, my assertion is not at ALL based on faith.  It’s based on all the sunrises I’ve experienced in my life PLUS the proof of all the sunrises that have happened in the past.  Based on that history, knowledge, evidence, proof, etc, I can say with close to 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow morning (and, with science, can even say what TIME it will rise).

 Ok, David, I’m going to clue you into one of the secrets of the universe.  The “WHY” isn’t really all that important.  In the vast, grand scheme of things, your “why” is of miniscule insignificance.  You really need to spend an hour in the REAL Total Perspective Vortex.  Seriously, there are more stars than grains of sand on our entire planet.  There are planets which orbit those stars.  We are just SO, VERY, VERY small.  I know that’s very difficult for you religious nuts to digest, but that’s the truth.  We are just NOT the center of the universe. 

 We can define our own “whys”, but just realize that there is NO divine mandate.

or…Pastafarian Academy of Science, Technology and Art (PASTA)?

Satan High school mascot should be the angels. It would be ALOT more hilarious 

Getting stuck in the nihilism loop can be very depressing.  I still struggle with it.

“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s
Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or
private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

Actually, many of the founding fathers were either Atheist or Theists, both of which are VERY different from Christianity… and the thought that we have an elected official using their office to push ONE religion down our throats is not only unconstitutional, but abhorrent!

“deistic schools” lol. Nice one Hemant.

 Satan High, home of the Fallen Angels.

Well, since all devils are fallen angels it would be appropriate as  well as biblical

YES, I would too if i was in that cucku state…..

 “Did you know that Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society that was dedicated to delivering the Bible to all parts of the colony of Virgina?”

The “Bible Society of Virginia” was founded in 1813 in
Richmond. Thirteen men were designated to serve as
the inaugural managers in 1813: Reverend John Buchanan (president), Reverend John D. Blair (vice-president), Reverend Jacob Grigg (vice-president), Reverend Jacob H. Rice (corresponding secretary), William Munford (recording secretary), Samuel Greenhow (treasurer), Archibald Blair, William Mayo, Robert Quarles, George Watt, Reverend John Bryce, William Fenwick, and Alexander M’Rae. Does anyone else notice Jefferson’s name is missing?

“That the University of Virgina founded by Jefferson had a chaplain?”

Odd, the only source I can find which supports you are quotes from David Barton, an evangelical Christian minister, who coincidentally is also the source for “Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society”. All other historical sources I find indicate both facts are incorrect.

Septuagint bible, David Barton again. I am seeing a pattern. It seems you think David Barton’s conclusions, which are not supported or echoed by historians, is somehow credible solely on the basis of his say so. You may want to close your zipper, your bias is showing.

That John Adams quote too shows that they were hopelessly optimistic about the future of religion. They seemingly thought that Enlightenment ideas would reduce religious influence to near insignificance in the foreseeable future.

Oh…so you’re CERTAIN…well, that’s all the evidence I fraking need.

Dude, they’re ALL absurd fraking nutcases!!!

 ::GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!::::

Really? Ain’t ya’ll got the Googler? I’m in the UK and I found it:

http://www.valariehodges.com/
Representative Valarie Hodges
District 6435055 LA Hwy. 16, Suite 2ADenham Springs, LA 70706Email: hodgesv@legis.la.govP: 225.791.2199Fax:  225.791.9203 

And I’m sorry about the “ain’t y’all” thing. Just teasing. 😉

The American conservative dictionary:

People = White people

Americans = Conservative white people

Religion = Christianity (but not of the ecumenical and liberal sort)

 Grammar Nazi High could have the alot as its mascot.

 SHE = CUNT

unfortunately, you are wrong about the US being the greatest country in the world. What is the US best at? Certainly not academics, which is the topic here…

“The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.” 
Now this was done in 2010, so there could be some positive improvements, however I have spoken to many teens in several states across the US, not many of them can even spell. They can use text language…but not regular English… This is disgusting to see the dumbing of our children, because we are so bothered with the shit Congress and the Government are doing we are refusing to actually educate our children! AND now this unconstitutional program…WTF America WE NEED TO WAKE THE HELL UP!!!
resource:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/us-falls-in-world-education-rankings_n_793185.html

Yep.  It’s the Temple of Set that would really drive the Christians wild if they probed behind the names and looked into the actual doctrines.

They are about to have an even bigger surprise, when it comes to Wiccan schools and Satanic seminars. 🙂

dont joke about scientology.
those people need help.

“When Gos wants to punish you he answers your prayers!”

Church of the Fonz all the way! EEyyyyyy!

 Mormons (along with hindus, muslims and all the various flavours of christianity) believe in nonsense that is no less whacky than Xenu and the scientology bunkum. Scientology is just newer.
Virgin births, original sin, talking serpents, a celestial home where you will live forever as a god…
Totally. Fucking.  Insane.

They would leave, but the education system is so bad, they can’t read maps.

Ba bum ching.

Also, I remember hearing the unofficial motto of Arkansas is “Thank God For Mississippi” because while Arkansas might be ranked 49th in a whole lot of statistics, Mississippi gets ranked 50th and saves Arkansas from being known as the “worst”

Louisiana is not that much higher on that list.

How much longer are we going to allow states to violate the Constitution of the United States? The state cannot support a religious institution or a religion. What is so hard to understand about that? Politicians who try to do this need to be thrown out of office because they either don’t understand the Constitution, in which case they don’t need to be making laws. Or, they understand the Constitution but have decided to make laws against it, in which case they have betrayed the US Constitution and need to immediately be impeached. Can you imagine if this was the other way around? Can you imagine if government funds had been granted to a religious non-Christian school? The Christian right would still be crying “persecution.”

It still blows my mind that 46% of our population believes in creationism. This woman is an idiot. It’s a shame people like her get any position in our government. This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom. She needs to take a history lesson.

Mormon magic underwear, gold tablets from an angel, not allowing Mormon youth to view any website except for mormon.org, forcing Mormon youth to go door-to-door for two years, polygamy, god is solid flesh and bone?
Yeah…nothing nutty there.

Brilliant. And like I suggested earlier, it would be a major money-maker because the official dress code is “pirate.”

 This was interesting to look in to. Thank you.                                                 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum#Summum_and_the_Ten_Commandments

“Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” – US ConstitutionThis has already been breached by Obama in HR347, which he signed into law in private…GOOGLE IT!!!… According to the ACLU(if that is actually a reliable resource) you have already lost your right to free speech and this is just another violation of the constitutional rights of the people…and do you know what will happen? nothing…absolutely nothing…we can sit here and talk about it until the cows come home…but the reality is…this is a done deal and now it will not be changed…it will be swept under the carpet and hushed…just like all of the controversial decisions the government makes for you and with out your vote…

I think the problem was that Scientology is much more harmful and cult like than the rest of the bunch.

 I suppose you would need to actually define ‘christian’ to determine is someone was one,  and no one has yet done that to the satisfaction of all ‘christians.’  Yet, if you did not  believe in the divinity of christ, it is difficult to believe you were a devout christian (I’m not sure what a non-devout christian is though).  Perhaps the jefferson bible is a good example of liking good things and discarding BS.

The original article quotes a school superintendent one Bill Spear as saying. “124 of the 125 voucher-approved schools have some sort of religious affiliation” and by the by hers a link for the bill. http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=793655

Involving oneself with the church of Scientology is NEVER a brilliant idea.

Sadly, but not all founding fathers were Christian (there are many articles on the net regarding that).
So let’s no  put founding fathers above Lord Jesus Christ, but let’s praise God and Jesus only.

This is why you Americans are so hated and you wonder why you have a target on your backs

This behaviour is exactly in keeping with the ‘founding fathers’. Those who came to the US to escape religious persecution were coming because they were considered too extreme in the old countries. The didn’t want more religious freedom. They wanted less and they wanted theirs to be the only form of christianity out there. 

However it is definitely contrary to those dignitaries at the time of independence such as Ben Franklin. That was the age of reason and many were either atheist or at least liberal christians or agnostic.

 I have always thought of them as kind of a mix between hedonists and Libertarians.

I want to start a school for the FSM.  Sow me the money!

Voucher schools rarely have to follow any guidelines which has led to huge amounts of fraud in some states.

Hey! Don’t insult sows! They are smart, clean animals (despite the stereotype), something that this woman is not.

That might be true, but they should still be able to get funding through this program like everyone else.

 Shocking! Great ammo for her next opponent….

” Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson) voted in favor of legislation that would allow public funds meant for public schools to be used to fund Muslim schools.”

 That would definitely be on my campaign literature if I were running against her.

Woo, go Cathars!

I wish there was a hell for them to go to.

Love it, I absolutely love it

The ignorance of some of these elected officials is staggering.

 Because one of us is an idiot?  You need to get a grip, fella.

Madrassas are us. Illiterates in government.

Yeah, scientology is more harmful because they started the crusades, molest young boys, and blew up the world trade center.. oops.. I see what I did there. They are ALL dangerous and nutty. Scientology is just too new to have started any wars.

Make the mascot a dark, middle-eastern Jesus 🙂

With a satanic apostrophe as the mascot!

I think he’s referring to the culture of unapologetic, overconfident, hypocritical shittyness.

Yeah, about that…

Unfortunately for Ms. Hodges argument, the Founding Fathers were not all Christians. Many, and I believe it was a slight majority but I’m not positive, someone correct me if I’m wrong, were Deists. They believed in God but not in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Kinda silly to call someone a Christian if they don’t believe Jesus Christ was the son of God.

Ooooh, I can wait to meet in an Italian Restaurant and be blessed by his Noodly appendage and a free meal to boot!  RAMEN!

Because we all know that Jesus had blue eyes, pale skin, and red hair…. Just like the pictures in all the churches LMAO

Gee, she’s an idiot and has no plans to hide it.  Good show!

 Simply wrong and the product of modern revisionists.  The founding fathers were indeed Christians and devout ones at that.  Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence over 25 of them were seminary graduates. Benjamin Franklin, during the constitutional convention called for three days of prayer and fasting in order to break from a deadlock.   He wrote :

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I
think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the
best the world ever saw or is likely to see. Letter to Ezra Stiles 1790.

These are quotes from Thomas Jefferson:

I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.
Letter to Charles Thomson 1816.

I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be:
sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. Letter to Benjamin Rush 1803.
Jefferson attended the Capital church in DC every week, required that the students at the University of Virgina attend chapel, funded the translation of the Greek Septuagint into an English Bible, funded the Thompson Bible,

How many different flavours of stupid are there in the world?
 

soooo, does any see the irony in this statement?

Such an awesome thing couldn’t happen to a bigger group of idiots.

As someone who was raised a Christian, in Christian schools, I have to say: This woman is an idiot. What did she think was going to happen? Public schools are not, and should never be, places of worship. The thought of taxpayer dollars going to Christian schools, or Islamic schools, or Buddhist schools, or Judaical schools is so completely against what our Founding Fathers would have wanted that this whole situation would have been laughable, if it just wasn’t so stupid. Even Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” The irony here is palpable.

You can bet your bottom dollar the Scientologists are already all over this. If there is $ on the wind, they can sniff it out like a greedy bloodhound. Poor Jindle.

Rep. Hodges makes some great points here. I wish she was my state Rep. 

I am a non-denominational Christian but even I believe that funding should be for schools who teach education, not religion. We cannot afford to start a stupid war on religion now in this country. If they want funding for a Catholic school, or a Muslim school, or a Christian school, let them do it like any other institution that wants to be privatized for the children that it wants attending. Save the money for the public education system where most of the kids have to go anyways.

There are Muslims in Louisiana? 

 TerranRich,

The fact that the founding fathers were Christian is based upon their writings, their actions, and the thoughts of those that knew them. There are over 200 men that signed our founding documents. of the 56 that signed the declaration, over 25 were seminary graduates. It is simply not true to say that they weren’t Christian.   

they aren’t a church, they are a cult as defined by the US Gov’t

Poor Jindal?!? He is the idiot who pushed this through (though it didnt take much pushing).

Jindal is terrible. If he gets nominated for VP, we may as well give Obama the election now (though we in louisiana would welcome a respite from his governorship).

 You are engaging in the historical error of modernizing the actions of an historical figure.  Using modern thoughts to interpret what they said and did.  There is absolutely no indication that Jefferson was an atheist. Jefferson’s hostility was to organized religion, not Christianity or the teachings of Christ. In fact he supported missionaries to teach the Gospels of Christ, including what has been referred to as the Jefferson bible. This was a shorthand version of the gospels specifically designed to teach the gospels of Christ to the Indians. That is the title of the book itself.

To say that the founding fathers built this country on anti Christian ideas is the flat wrong. you need to read the transcripts of the constitutional convention for the speeches they gave. For example, Benjamin Franklin called for a break of three days for the purpose of pray and imploring God to help them in their meetings.  “I therefore beg leave to move that
henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on
our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to
business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate
in that service.” Franklin

John Adams stated: “[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish
the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of
a free constitution is pure virtue.” Letter to Zabidal Adams 1776

Benjamin Rush: “We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only
means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that
is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by
the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that
equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal
virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.” Rush essays 1806

That’s not entirely true.  There is evidence that I can reduce stress, and that that might be good for me. So while it is a stretch to say I can be stress free, there’s at least some evidence to start experimenting and see what I can come up with.  

Slightly different than “don’t worry about it, your invisible sky friend will help you”.  That being said… not really interested in studying Buddhism enough to know if it makes sense to me. 

The problem is more people than religion.  People love the idea that they don’t have to think for themselves, they just have to listen to one man, or one group of men, and they’ll tell them what’s right and what’s wrong.  Religion does some really good things, and some really bad things, depending on who is currently in charge… But most importantly, religion teaches people to not think for themselves enough to tell the difference.

 As always, lying for jebus is A-OK!

I ay we go with the norse reliion, at least they can enjoy aryan supermen swinging around.

Nope. Falcon is correct. Buddhism is not a religion – it is non-theistic, therefore merely a life philosophy, not a religion.

I really don’t care what the actual religious beliefs of the founding fathers actually were.  It doesn’t really matter.  It’s our world now and we’ve changed many things about for the better since they were alive. 

(Dude, they didn’t have computers, cars, or space travel either…get the frak OVER yourself)

To the original poster, that behavior would be no better than what you are railing against. Just as the foolish ones who would turn their noses up at the wisdom or peace of another religous fellow, you would antogonize and and hope to wound. Hatred only begets hatred.

Note the quotation marks, meaning it’s a quote and not an argument.

She doesn’t know jack about the facts about the Founding Fathers. I bet she believes that Washington was a devout Christian, but he was not. Same goes for Franklin, Madison, Jefferson, Adams and many others. They were many deists and atheists, and some Christians but they would not recognize what Christianity today is. They’d probably be appalled.

For many years I have envisioned a high school football game between  Pope Pius XII H.S.  and  Prince of Darkness H.S.  in North Jersey.  Once little Bobby Jindal turned into a real american christian bigot after being born again, it seems he’s done his east Indian heritage proud.  All this sycophant/hypocrite has left to do is to join the Klan.  The old south is on the rise.

Open a school of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and teach children how to respect the holy noodle and to have faith in him.

…

This isn’t ‘funding’ it’s a voucher program.  And I’m not sure what an atheist school would look like.  A private secular school is already eligible.  Maybe you mean an anti-theist school where they spend time studying why religions are wrong?  I wouldn’t mind ALL kids getting a good course in comparative religion, and maybe one ON the Bible, but I don’t really see the point in making it an entire school focus.

Just one? hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahah(gasp)hahahahahahah

That is absolutely true. They don’t know it, but they practice Paulianity. 

 So … in her defense, you are trying to state that all Muslim schools teach terrorism.

Try to make that sort of a generalization with any other community/religion and see the kind of negative response you get.

Unfortunately, you are Hodges or seem to be just as stupid as Hodges!

“Freedom of religion” means “ALL RELIGIONS,” Ya dumb bitch.

That’s the kind of stupid you can’t even fix with duct tape. This idiot should resign ASAP, she’s an epic FAIL.

 As an atheist Buddhist, let me say you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.  Buddhism is not a religion, it’s a philosophy; it requires no belief in anything without evidence, no gods, no magic.

Not all Buddhist’s are atheists, some do believe in gods because it’s part of their culture, but those beliefs don’t come from Buddhism, they are cultural artifacts of India.

It’s obvious that on the day of the vote Ms Hodges didn’t have access to the family brain cell. Apparantly her uncle was out collecting road-kill and they didn’t want him to end up under a tractor.

Please don’t allow her to represent all Christians. Don’t let yourself stereotype the way she has. Every religion is comprised of individuals with the potential to misrepresent the faith. Don’t hate. 

 Or better yet, the Blue Balls.

Speaking of education, pretty sure Rep. Hodges meant to say she wanted to “ensure” not “insure” money didn’t go to “radical” muslim schools…unless she is looking to buy a policy regarding the situation (but I’m pretty sure that is not what she meant).

who?

Well, in the US we’ve given much of the power and our freedoms over to corporations.  Many property owners can’t cut down trees on their property without getting the permission of the Home Owner’s Association first.  Some people have had their homes stolen from them by HOAs for very petty offenses (usually just not kowtowing enough to the people in power).

SO much hate

wait…so which is the TRUE ™ Buddhism???  For many people, though, it IS a religion.  Still, I think things would greatly improve in the world if we could wave a magic wand and make all the xians into buddhists. 

Don’t the Mormons also believe that after they die the men get to be ruler gods of their own planet or something?  Didn’t seem that far off from Scientology to me.

 And some of them actually think that they can wave their hands around, chant some words and that really has an effect on the world.  Believing in magic is absurd.

 Oh, it certainly does matter what you believe.  Except for the really large, usually public gatherings, each group develops their own dogmas, rules, beliefs that the group must follow.  To not believe in some things means getting booted from the group. 

A long time ago I tried out the Pagan thing and I eventually realized it really wasn’t that much different underneath the surface than the churches I attended as a child.  So, Pagans don’t get any special exemption just because they’re not as bad (in some ways) as other religions.

 Yep, everyone else is deluded and in desperate need of their brand of education to get straightened out!

“Cosmic Jewish Zombie”

Quest for new band name complete.

“… what most conservative Christians only say to themselves in private”  You reveal yourself to be just as closed minded as the woman you are bashing.

I agree with everything you said here, and I’m also named Brian Scott.  Are you actually me posting in some sort of haze?  Are we both Tyler Durden?

BIGOT-BIGOT-BIGOT-BIGOT!! You are head in the sand IGNORANT. The Crusades are documented genocide in the name of Christianity. Entire tribes, i.e., small nations  have been exterminated over land in the name of religion. That religion was Christianity. I’m not saying it’s ok for Islam, but don’t be so arrogant as to think you are any different than they are. You guys have just been better armed throughout history. 

Don’t justify this crap! Why should any of my tax money go to a private school of any kind! Taxes are public money for public interests. EFFING PERIOD.

 The Fallen Angels!

Snake handlers rejoice….dollar bills y’all! Thanks Bobby J!

Oh, don’t think, don’t even let your mind wander… it’s too little to be out by itself

Love it! I agree! Hahaha…

 Are you seriously trying to base your arguments on the pseudo-historian Barton?

I cannot believe that a politician could possibly survive such blatant racism, in a modern, secular country. In the UK she could possibly be imprisoned under our anti-discrimination laws. She would never hold public office again, that’s for sure

They should open a school for the actual religion of file sharing that could be fun !!!!

BTW, I’d just like to add: wow! I had no idea that my suggestion/comment would spark so many replies and likes. Thank everyone.

Ms. Hodge is definitely a representative of the dumbest of the dumb. She is also an uneducated bigot,who has absolutely no knowledge of the US Constitution nor of the religious background of the framers of the Declaration of Independence or Constitution. Further, the USA was not founded as, and never was to be, a christian nation. It was to be a nation that accepted all religions and creeds. Inclusive, not exclusive, as Ms. Hodge and her little band of bigoted followers would have.
This is why I left Louisiana, and the south in general, after spending 15 years of my working life in that state, governed by an idiot. By the way, does not Ms. Hodge realize that  Gov. Jindel does not meet her vision of a “WASP”?
She is one of the reasons why I have no respect for evangelical christianity. She is definitely a disgrace to the state of Louisiana.

About as absurd as believing in prayer.

Just finished reading Jon Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven” which illuminates how Mormon fundamentalists murdered people in the past, because “God gave them revelations.”  That’s as nutty as it gets.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

Isn’t Scientology merely a tax shelter for wealthy celebs? (Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Beck, etc.)  

Originality. Nice.
link to evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__uutzcQXc

What “Christian principles” do you see in our founding documents?

 Sorry I did not see where you cited your source in this latest post. But I am happy to see that you acknowledge but intentionally left out the portion of your source that showed that Jefferson funded and supported the Virgina Bible Society. The article  also says that the 13 members you identified were the initial managers of that organization, not the founders. So we have a situation where we know that Jefferson supported the mission and funded it but was not an initial manager.  If you want to say that this means he didn’t help found it that is your right. 

 Asked you first.  You made the statement that the anti christian ideals in the founding documents. What are they?

There are two sects of Buddhism: Theravada and Mahayana. Though neither is the “true” Buddhism, Theravada is closest to the early Buddhism developed by Siddhartha. Mahayana tends to view Buddha as an earthly manifestion of an “omnipresent being.” They are very hesitant to say “god,” but of the two, it is the one most steeped in a deity.

So, in some ways, ALL of you are correct: there exist some religious aspects, but they are not necessarily practiced by all Buddhists.

(…end of teaching lesson.)

As I explained in a reply to somebody else: It doesn’t matter how you see Pagans and Wiccans, or how Pagans and Wiccans see themselves. What matters, in my suggestion, is how a lot of Christians see them. And the way that they are seen by those Christians are as the devil incarnate.

Pagans and Wiccans may disagree that they are, but that is actually how they are seen by Bible thumping Christians.

That’s all that counts in this instance.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster School of Flying.  Using public funds.  Good idea.

I think this is a positive story. It teaches people the value of Church/State separation. THIS is why the Government has to stay out of religion and Vice Versa.

And now it is explained in a way that even a Conservative Christian could understand

Yea, that’s about par for your average conservative christian politician. Heck, thats true of ALL politicians!

And you have an Anti-Constitution bias.  

Mormons are Christian…just saying.  http://mormon.org/jesus-christ/

Oh boy! I can’t wait to go to Louisiana and start my Pastafarian School for believers in the invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Beware nonbelievers of his noodley appendages!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster

You must not be a very good attorney to continue dwelling on strawman red herrings.

Regardless of the religions of our founding fathers, the Constitution is secular, and there is a First Amendment constitutional seperation between church and state.

Deal with it.

I don’t think I’m you. o.O

Does anyone know if Jefferson’s black slave mistress and the children he had with her were Christians?

 More off topic nonsense.

The US is a sectarian country, even if our founding fathers were devout Christians or pot smoking, sex slave owning, Indian killing, colony exploiting wealthy white men, which they were.

This is an awesome article and truly shows the ignorance and bigotry of the conservative right.  Supposedly our forefathers came here to escape religious persecution, and yet, we see it in our society every day.  Hmmmmmmm…..

 Nah, he probably went to Wake Forest. Go Demon Deacs!

That seems incongruous with what I’m aware of to be an enduring pattern in neopaganism. :: shrug ::

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsp&fileName=002/llsp002.db&recNum=24
See Article 11:  “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”

Step right up folks and view, straight from the bayou, a true representitive of the Louisiana education system.

May I ask you a question Carol?

Does your Christian religion espouse the idea that non-believers will burn in Hell?

If so, what right have you to speak about how wrong and violent others are, especially Muslims, when your religion condemns others to an eternal torment.

Methinks you should rethink your thinks!

FSM!

What a stupid… STUPID woman.

First off the founding fathers WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!!!!!  They HATED CHRISTIANS!!!   They referred to the Bible as a “dung pile.”  

Read some of the letters from the founding fathers.  THE FOUNDING FATHERS  WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!!!!

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

 Just trying to not allow an attempt at shifting the burden of proof.

 You do know this was retracted by the author of the article when the dna tests proved that he could not be the father.

I wholly agree with Summer below. I have been hoping that a Wiccan or Satanist student or teacher group insists on praying at lunch in a school, just to point out the utter tyranny of the majority and pound some sense into folks. But this Louisiana legislator may have just done it on her own; hope that goes viral bigtime 🙂

You know, every one seems to be forgetting tat this nation was founded on a few key principals, one of which was religious freedom… not freedom to be a narrow minded christian sub-sect, or just part of the all powerful and dogmatic catholic church, but the freedom to practice what ever your faith truly is 

So if ur, pagan “christian” ( which by the way blankets several faiths) catholic, Buddhist , satanist, scientologist, or aethiest, you have the constitutional right to practice that religion free from oppression and ridicule…..

So all of you talking about faiths that aren’t yours saying thy are wrong need to just stuff it

 thank you that is this middle aged while voting males opinion

That stretch is the main objection by laymen to buddhism I heard, though. The (speculative) argument is: if there were no stress at all left, you’d lose drive and would not want to do anything anymore.

That this is not so can be seen on the many buddhists that did just that, but who’s to say it will be the same for you – or that they aren’t lying?

Here one needs a leap of faith which is what I and people around me usually call “religiosity”. This also where the priests can build their “empires” by adding requirements – and sometimes did, depending on the region.

As for not being interested, that’s fine. It’s just like for hospitals, best to stay away from them when you are fine…

Lets not mix words, you stated that he “founded” it. And since every point you parroted has been sourced to David Barton, it can then be assumed he is your only source.

“The point is he clearly would not have done that in the event he hated the Bible as has been implied”

Not implied by me anywhere. Since we are dealing with historical facts, there are no facts showing anything other than a one time donation to the Virginia Bible Society so it seems his “support” had a shelf life. Your arguments, made to others here, indicates his actions identify him as Christian. That is just wishful projecting on your part, as someone who donates time and money to charity, as a Foster Parent, I am “Christian” on paper, you simple have to ignore my writings.

Interestingly, wikipedia says there’s no accepted scientific definition of “religion” in the first place. Since this law here doesn’t define it, we can just declare anything we want as religion and get funding. Have to start my siestas-every-day religious school 🙂

Be as touchy-feely as you want with your feelings, but please don’t misinterpret what I wrote. I didn’t suggest the idea to become friends with these fundamentalist idiots, but to antagonize them further. Now, I realize that you may think that this isn’t the best way to make friends, and I would agree. My point, however, is that I’m not suggesting it to make friends; I’m suggesting it to piss them off.

If I had wanted to suggest making friends with them, I wouldn’t have suggest it in this particular way.

As to the second part of your question: you must have missed reading the entire original story. I didn’t suggest this because they were content to live in their little world without bothering anyone else. I suggested this course of action because they weren’t content to stay in their little world and started seriously infringing upon the rest of the world around them. The reason a lot of us atheists are fighting back is because the level of infringement from religious people in the last few decades has risen sharply and, quite frankly, we’re sick of it. We’re not out to make friends with our reaction. We’re mostly out to tell them that enough is enough, and to either go back to their little worlds or to leave them altogether and join the real one.

ALL HAIL THE ALMIGHTY CARBOHYDRATE!

In reference to your claim of unconstitutionality of a voucher program whereby vouchers can be used to cover tuition for students attending religious based schools; I am afraid that the Supreme Court disagrees with you.  In Zelman v. Simmons-Harris, 536 U.S. 639 (2002), the court stated, unequivocally, that such voucher programs do not violate the Establishment Clause so long the vouchers may also be used for non-religious schools.

It does not matter what our forefathers personally believed. Jefferson would let us all know that it is none of our business (wish politicians today had that attitude) what matters is that they knew our laws needed to be secular and our Constitution Godless. This is how the country was designed and if they were all Satanists it would not matter. They knew how to separate things. It’s a shame politicians have only regressed.

Absolutely disgusting.

I hoped I had found another great site but it appears you are just as biased as this woman. SO the threat to secularism is only valid if it’s coming from Christianity? Why not try educating yourselves just a bit. I will fight just as hard to keep prayer out of schools. But it doesn’t seem like this web site has a problem with a religion that demands prayer five times a day and has no separation of the  state. Why would this be so?

It’s the British government that doesn’t recognize them as a church.

 I think we’re all avoiding the real question here, if they were Christians, were they True Christians?

They were seminarians because seminaries were the higher education of the day. That does NOT (Emphatically, does NOT) mean that they were Christian. Will you now tell me that  they were Jewish because they all knew Hebrew (they mostly did) or that they were Catholic because they knew Latin (they mostly did that, too).

Why are so many Christian Fundamentalists so aggressively ignorant?

So why did Hodges suddenly change her mind, then?

“A bad idea to begin,” wrote Hemant. And he approvingly quoted a statement saying that says that Muslims should be funding their own schools, and Christians should be funding their own. 

oh goody, does this mean I can start up a private Santeria or Rastafarian school in Louisiana and get tax dollars for it? where do I sign?

TWIT!!

Maybe he’s one of those fox-hole theists we hear so much about…? 😉

There is absolutely nothing *Christian* about this twit, or any of the other fundies who refuse to believe Jesus is liberal. (I’m Independent, in case anyone cares)  As a believer, I feel certain that if Jesus were to return today, He’d be in all of the lowliest, most desperately poor places, and would certainly not be at *any* political fundraisers.  He’d be at AIDS hospices, and would not reject any of God’s children because of their “sins” – at least these morons had better hope so, because if He did punish us all for our sins, they’d be the first ones he’d smite.

 Christian biblical law is no less violent or more tolerant than Islam. The bible calls for the stoning of all non-believers for Christ’s sake.

Honestly, what in God’s name does the religion of the “Founders” have to do with anything? 

 FSM FTW

Hey, where do I find information on setting up a school based on the principles of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his Noodly Appendages? Just as good as her religion.

The sad thing is, I remember when Hurricane Katrina happened. I was living in Qatar, this small but rich Middle Eastern country, where 90% of people were Muslim. And my school – one of those very Muslim schools Representative Hodges is so against (although not ‘radical’) – held a K-12 contest to see which grade could donate the most blankets, bedding and emergency supplies to Hurricane Katrina victims. So many kids I knew – most of them heirs to a billion-dollar oil company – simply bought new packs of bedding and sent them off. 
This is what they teach at regular Muslim schools.
Something that should be taught in Christian schools too, in my opinion.At least in Muslim countries, the government acknowledges that religion affects the government, rather than just claiming a ‘separation of Church and state’Anyway, next time Louisiana declares a state of emergency, they should specify – “Muslims need not help.” Otherwise, Muslims might accidentally help rebuild the very system that discriminates against them. 

You had me right until you got to the last line. Privilege is overused, and it is inappropriately used in this case.

Ah ha ha ha ha!!!!!

This is why we have separation of church and state…. Nice job Louisiana! Oops!

Can you give one example of pagans or wiccans trying to “fuck with the freedom of others,” as you so crudely put it?  No?  Then STFU.

This is why we have separation of church and state…. Nice job Louisiana! Oops!

@PatheosAtheist:twitter Can we all just like and share and only add productive comments? The point is what people like #RepValerieHodges mean when they say we are a Christian nation. @hemantmehta:twitter 

Ok people, I have read through your comments regarding the Church of Satan and so on and I have come to the epic determination that you….people…. rock.  That was awesome.  I…I feel so at home!  So touched!  I’ve found my people!

The first quote, with more context:

To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other.

And the second, with more context:

I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus [N.B. This work is commonly known as the Jefferson Bible]; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.

So what you should recognize here is that Jefferson is explicitly distinguishing his beliefs about Jesus from orthodox beliefs. By “his doctrines,” Jefferson is referring to the ethical precepts that Jesus espoused, which he often expressed his fondness for.

Seriously, stop getting your quote mines from David Barton. You just make yourself look like a fool.

Does the Ninth Commandment mean nothing to you? You’ve been called out on these lies already.

She got hoisted on her own petard.
 

And it gets worse.

The state approved a private Christian school to get more than 350 vouchers and the school has no teachers.  Students watch DVD.

After that was reported, the state suddenly decided a “second round” of vetting was necessary. 

throw her out of office.  make the door hit her in the ass so hard that it knocks some sense into her.  

I don’t agree that the anti-christ or any of this stuff is real but I agree about the Paulians.  I remember holding that view when I was still religious.

 No, revising history would be making them Christian.  Isn’t bearing false witness supposed to be a bad thing for you guys?  Because you’re telling a flat lie.  http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs

Please, try making sense sometime.  To be a Deist is very obviously not to be an atheist, it’s just not being a Christian.  Man, dogma to the left of me, dogma to the right of me, volleyed and thundered…

I have read his writings, and I find your representation of them to be very little less distorted than that of the person you’re arguing with.

The sad part is that modern day Americans (and unfortunately it happens far too often with those who call themselves Republicans) have forgotten why the United States was founded, and more importantly, upon what beliefs and ideals it was founded. I was relieved to see that the author of this article did enough research to mention the fact the Founding Fathers were (as close as they could be categorized) Deists  — not to mention Freemasons. They rarely spoke of their own private religious beliefs because they didn’t want anyone’s faith to feel excluded. This is taken from a letter G.W. wrote to a Jewish community in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1790:

“It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.”

I thought the most significant part was the fact that “the Government of the United States… gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance…” I wish our government officials would understand our government before trying to run it.

they are dangerous cults in russia and germany. 

may i just say to this bitch that our founders said freedom of religion, not “we are christians?” did she know about a treaty we signed about never becoming a theocracy? 

What are you talking about. Satan High’s mascot should be the fightin’ William Blakes!

 If they can teach their creationism we can teach that the world was licked into being out of a block of ice by the giant cow Audhumbla.

But Scandinavians are Scandinavians and the Aryans came from northern India.

There is no hope for poor Valerie. You can’t fix stupid.

Apparently, the legislator did not attend an educational facility that was able to instil an understanding of “democracy” and “equality under the law”. I do hope that tax payers dollars were not wasted upon her schooling.

an all LGBT high school. Wow, they would die!

I think it’s probably more appropriate that you, with your somewhat limited reading comprehension skills, should STFU “as you so crudely put it”.
In my previous comment I never said pagans or wiccans “fuck with the freedom of others”. I said that religions, including paganism and wicca, “differ in the degree to which they try to fuck with the freedom of
others.” Now, that means that some of them may not fuck with the freedom of others at all while some fuck with those freedoms immensely.  And, I think it is clear from the context that I was implying that wicca and paganism fall nearer the don’t fuck at all end of the sprectrum.
If you are a wiccan or pagan, I suggest a more appropriate thing for you to be offended by would be my insistence that those belief systems are nutty.
If you’re going to be overly sensitive about your unsubstantiated, ridiculous beliefs, at least get upset about actual insults…not things no one ever said.

None the less, your misplaced, righteous indignation was amusing. Thanks.

Another redneck voted in that has no idea what they are doing…

How would Mormonism shock Christians? Mormons ARE Christian. The Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. By the way, the LDS (or Mormons, as you say) do fund their own schools, and do not apply for governmental grants. So, they agree with you in principle — there is freedom of religion (all religions) and there is a separation between Church and State.

Nice! How about the Louisiana School of Wicca and Witchcraft? Or the Baton Rouge Academy of New Age Living? Seriously, we could come up with hundreds…

” I would have to disagree with the level of religious infringement increasing. There is a reason that the Catholic church doesn’t rule the western world like it used to.”

I disagree with your disagreement. There has been a resurgence of fundamentalism all over the world. One reason that atheists have become so outspoken is because our rights have been infringed upon.

“The fact is that Atheists are winning.”

A little early to say.

“People with religions ought to be able to speak their minds in politics without being derided by the left and those on the right shouldn’t force their ideals onto atheists and those of other religious persuasions.”

It depends what they believe. Generally, they believe in nonsense and I don’t have to respect that at all, no. Here, in Israel, if some fundie orthodox idiot says that women have to move to the back of the bus, I’ll give them the fucking finger, ok? If some asshole politician in America says that creationism should be taught in the classroom, I’ll also give them the finger. I don’t have to respect what they think or say at all if it’s utter nonsense. And if they’re trying to force their ideals on to me, then I bloody well am going to reciprocate.

“The main issue I have is that while the left claims to ultimately  be tolerant of everybody (gays are the best current example of this) they then refuse to allow people whose beliefs are the center of their lives to allow those beliefs to guide them in their political decisions.”

Does that mean I have to respect the “ideological differences” I have with racists who think that Jews and Blacks should be 3rd class citizens or simply exterminated? Because, you know, the whole “tolerance” thing?

“Also, I wasn’t trying to be touchy feely about it. More live and let live.”

Sounds to me like you were. But if you want to live and let live with people out to destroy you, good luck with that. Sometimes, it’s an idiotic philosophy.

She sounds like a religious extremist

D’oh!

Paganism/Wiccanism/Druidism are all based on the study and reverence of Nature.  While there are some spiritual aspects and Deified personifications, it’s still essentially Earth-worship. So no, not quite as nutty as some others, like the Believers of the Sky Cake. ;P

Hilarious! Oh, by the way, if you would like to send her a congratulatory message for her hindsight, this is her website: http://www.valariehodges.com/contact . I’m sure we would love the kickback on her website. LMAO…

 requirement*

Truth is ignored here all the time

Jefferson was a full supporter of the entire bible. He did enjoy the moral teachings of Jesus and cut them out in an abridged version for his own use and that he passednputnto new members of congress but it is simply modern revisionism to saybthatbthis means he did not believe the entire bible

There were two of these. One in 1804 with the title that included their use for preaching the gospel to the Indians and one in 1820 without that title. The later one does not discount or replace the first one.

Name one founding father who was an atheist.

 Make OBL

HA HA!  (BTW, I live in the same redneck Florida Parishes section of Louisiana not too far from Livingston Parish.)

 No need for Church of Chuck Norris.  We already have too many churches teaching bigotry as it is.  ;P

Are there Diest schools popping up in Louisianna?  Because they’d have to outnumber Christian schools about 3 to 2 if they wanted to represent the Founding Fathers.

 Magic, Woody Allen, Zombie, Superman Jesus…

 Why would you consider it absurd?  They’re both equally nutty in my experience.  The only thing making Mormonism different than Scientology is about 130 years between their founding charlatans pulling random ideas out of their asses.

Oy.  If this wasn’t so funny it would be tragic.  I am always astounded when Christians show their bigotry .. but to call the founding fathers Christians is the epitome of newspeak .. as Deists (most of them) they were wise to emphasize that, for their vision to survive, there must be a wall between *church* and state. 

I have to ask, why havent the states courts determined this to be unconstitutional to start with?

On the other hand, Valarie Hodges is dumber than a box of hats

 I like this… except the fact that you seem to not realize Mormons are a Christian church, just with an extra book…

So other than that, yes ◦◕ ᴥ ◕◦ ¥

“I won’t go back home and explain to my people that I supported this,” Republican state Rep. Kenneth Havard said, referring to the vouchers “that fund Islamic teaching.”   

She DID support it.  Obviously she will lie to her constituents too. 

Given that “atheist” was a pejorative term, it’s unlikely that you’d find any well-known figure who professed atheism even in private letters.

That said, you are correct that there is no evidence that any of the Founding Fathers were atheists, and there is also plenty of evidence to suggest that not all of them were orthodox Christians (although some were). And most importantly, they left us a government that was unabashedly secular, omitting (to the consternation of the devoutly religious Christians both of the day and since then) references to God and inserting a ban on religious tests for office. This pissing contest about which camp gets to claim which Founding Fathers is pointless because they created a secular system to avoid all of these sectarian issues.

 The clergy,
by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine
of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and
religious rights of man.

— Thomas Jefferson, to Jeremiah Moor, 1800

I know it
will give great offense to the clergy, but the advocate of religious
freedom is to expect neither peace nor forgiveness from them.

— Thomas Jefferson, to Levi Lincoln, 1802. ME 10:305

[N]o
man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship,
place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained,
molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer,
on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall
be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in
matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish,
enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

— Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, ed, Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), p. 347

I never
will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a
right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.

— Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Dowse, April 19, 1803
Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.

— Thomas Jefferson,
letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim
that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United
States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it
does not address. This argument is still used today by “Christian
Nation” revisionists who do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson’s
thorough research of this matter.

I have one word for all of you….well, depending on how the state works it could be two. Impeach, or recall, this ignorant politician making decisions for us. We can do better! If this is not possible, I beg you to leave the state.

 could I get a free ride through a culinary school as an ardent FSM believer?

Making a Pastafarian school would also qualify in the name of his Noodliness, RAMEN.

can we start a pastafarian school?

you shouldn’t be an elected representative unless you understand the Constitution

 Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color and off is a TV station.

Atheists, humanists, and freethinkers have been telling jokes and publishing cartoons about this sort of thing happening for years. Guess the Republicans have never seen or heard them because they have no sense of humor.

Some of this is very funny and some went right over my head, way too intellectual for me.
But, I think it is time to get serious about these fundamentalist and their agenda.  They are not only haters of Islamist, but off people who accept Islamist as their neighbors.  The hypocrisy of these people is jolting and alarming.  I have a cousin, a minister, who wrote to me over the weekend to tell me that a line has been drawn in the sand.  I cannot be an Atheist, or Deist,
or have my own thoughts of how I should believe in God.  I have told him I believe in God, just not his.  He said I have to make a choice, either choose Jesus ,or, and he left the alternative implied.  The punisihment he implied does not take place in hell, but that the believers and teachers of Christianity will be ruling this country by the rules of the Bible.  I have to make a choice now.   Would I accept Jesus with a gun at my head?  I assume he will be the Inquisition Czar.  These Zealots, pro Israeli, hot heads are coming out of the wood work.  My cousin believes that Jerusalem will be the center of the Christian world. 

Someone please explain how vouchers are used to fund a faith. Vouchers are used to provide an education alternative to those who may not have options when it comes to their children’s education. Contrary to the writer’s misguided claim the funds are not used to promote religion or a faith. The child using the voucher is not required to take a religion course to attend the schools.

This entire article is a fact less attempt to deceive the gullible. I have no respect for the ignorant legislator but even less for the writer who openly prints falsehoods to promote his agenda. When you can provided evidence vouchers are being used to fund a faith as you allude too, I’ll listen. But you and I both know you’re full of bull. Luckily for you your readers appear to be none too bright.

Hemant’s claim about the constitutionality of vouchers may be wrong, but it’s not fraudulent. Also, you obviously don’t understand the function of teachers’ unions.

 If that educational alternative is at a religious school, it is very likely the student will receive indoctrination. In addition, history & science curriculum is often altered to meet the beliefs of the religion/denomination. Add the religious icons, scheduled daily prayers, etc. and it amounts to promoting religion.

Personally, I was raised a Catholic in a small southern town (one PUBLIC high school) dominated by Southern Baptists. We didn’t have school dances because the Baptists thought it was a sin. Catholics love to dance! We also prayed each morning – “The Lord’s Prayer”. Catholics say the “Our Father” – a different version. The message was clear to me – they had the right religion and my parent’s religion was the wrong one. Just imagine being Jewish or Islam and having to say a Christian prayer!

First, the fact that you call it “coercively obtained tax money” is pretty telling.

Second, public education is a public good and is intended to benefit everyone, even people who are not and will never be parents.

Third, there is no clear evidence that vouchers would actually improve outcomes at all. The insinuation that competition would work in public education, which is an entirely different beast than higher education, isn’t well-founded, frankly.

Fourth, vouchers are more likely to hurt public education than help it, since it would hurt already-strapped districts by taking away some of their revenue.

Fifth, there would have to be accountability systems in place for private schools if they are going to receive money that would go to public schools.

Funny thing, I’m Jewish and I always thought America included me.

 Beck is a Scientologist by birth. *Glenn* Beck is a Mormon.

Yes, me too. I always find these occasional sadly unashamed political attempts at reconstructing the nation as an exclusively Christian nation that marginalizes the citizenship of other religions to be very, very disturbing.

THAT IS WHY THERE IS AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

 The New York Nephilim. Has a nice bit of alliteration to it.

I have been trying to explain this principle to my fundamentalist Christian family for years…they just can’t get it.  Or sadly they just don’t want to get it.

Many of them were Deist. But even those that were not (James Madison, anyone?) knew perfectly well why this sort of thing was a terrible, terrible idea, and the poor track record religion really had.

What about the Church of the Sub-Genius? Bob Dobbs needs a piece of this.

DO IT!

As a pagan, I would not want to be represented by an athiest group.  Just sayin’

That is just plain hilarious, your own bigotry backfires and you cannot ignore it any longer…. I just love that…. I’m moving there and will asks for funds to create the Invisible Pink Unicorn College and the Pastafarian Noodle University

Too bad so few Christians seem to come anywhere close to the supposed Christian ideal. Perhaps you, as a self-identified Christian could help to set that better example?

Or you could keep making excuses. Whatever works. I can’t tell you what to do.

And even those who were Christians, like James Madison, knew good and well why that high, strong wall was necessary.

Not sure if Poe…

 That’s … the joke.

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

Isn’t Wiccan also a recognized religion? I. Cannot. Stop. Laughing.

Oh. I guess the concept of equality is a new one. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Did we forget that our government can’t and is constitutional prohibited from picking one religion over another?

Please read some N.T. Wright, author of several books re: the “New Perspective on Paul”.  Helps break down some of the “old” misunderstandings of Paul’s writings to view them from first century Jewish and Gentile eyes (instead of 21st century American Christian eyes).  Turns out Paul and Jesus didn’t actually teach different “Gospels” (Good News, that is).
BTW…not all Christians support state funding of Christian (or other religious) schools, or hate Muslim folks and want to take away their rights. 
Unfortunately, many people who might otherwise be drawn to Jesus based on his words (perhaps paraphrased by others since most people are afraid to actually sit down and read the teachings of Jesus, lest they appear to be “considering” them seriously as a possible way of living) have walked away because other people have twisted those words.  People experience “bad” Christians and write off Jesus (and God) completely…understandable, but nonetheless ignorant.
If I see a vegetarian eating a cheeseburger, I don’t assume there are no health benefits to vegetables.  I assume they aren’t great at practicing vegetarianism.  Perhaps, I even assume that NOT eating meat, in a world FULL of cheeseburger joints, is a really difficult challenge, even one worth taking up.  Perhaps I could encourage that vegetarian to put down their cheeseburger and take up their broccoli.

 so, you didn’t read the article, then?

What a dumb bitch. I did not serve overseas defending the constitution to have a political leader piss on all we fight for. I am ashamed to be an american right now.

Not the Muslim ones?? WOW lady!! You and your buddy W can change this country in to a ……..

The LA representative is too typical of southern “Christian” bigots: racism hiding behind her capped teeth. I would bet she cuts food stamps, also.

Am sure there am plenty of dems in Lousy-Anna.

Astounding that people can be so ignorant.  I like Summer Seale’s comment about the Church of Satan.  Without looking at the other 756 comments, I’m sure quite a few mention Flying Spaghetti Monsterism as well.  I have a private pipe dream that I could create an open-source religion that declares the abuses and weaknesses that cause other faiths to be co-opted by hucksters, bad politicians, and such to be sins.  I kind of appreciate the ideals of early Protestants that no one should rely on being a minister as a career; they should all have to work for a living.

What do you say? I think this could catch on. It could make every other faith on Earth obsolete.

So you want your religion to be able to take taxpayer money, which a lot of them don’t want it to be given to, BUT, you don’t want any other religion to be able to get that same taxpayer money. How selfish. Just remember that there are hundreds of different religions . that just because you want the government to fund your religion only you would be breaking the law.

 You shouldn’t be ashamed to be an American, what you should be ashamed of tho is being a republican they are the ones who want to control you and the things you fought for ..