Gay, Mormon, and Married (To a Woman) June 12, 2012

Gay, Mormon, and Married (To a Woman)

I am rarely at a loss for words.  I have opinions on things.  It’s part of my charm (or so I try to convince people).

I have been staring at this blank page for literally 20 minutes trying to organize my thoughts.  I just am really having trouble wrapping my head around this article I just read on LifeSiteNews.  

Here are bullet points. It’s easier in bullet points:

  • Josh Weed is a Mormon living in Oregon.
  • He is married.
  • To a lady.
  • He is gay.
  • He is happy.
  • His wife has known about his homosexuality since their very first date when they were 16.
  • He and his wife have three daughters.
  • They’re pretty adorable.
  • He has known he was gay since he was “11 or 12.”
  • He told his dad at 13; his parents have been “loving and supportive.”

Okay.  Those are the facts as I have read them.

This is what Josh says on the subject of his sexuality:

Some might assume that because I’m married to a woman, I must be bisexual. This would be true if sexual orientation was defined by sexual experience. Heck, if sexual orientation were defined by sexual experience, I would be as straight as the day is long even though I’ve never been turned on by a Victoria’s Secret commercial in my entire life. Sexual orientation is defined by attraction, not by experience. In my case, I am attracted sexually to men. Period. Yet my marriage is wonderful, and Lolly and I have an extremely healthy and robust sex life.

Here’s the thing: if you take the time to read his whole story, it’s compelling. He seems to be happy.  He and his wife seem to be on the same page. Both went into this relationship with their eyes wide open.

I have opinions on people being shoved into the closet by their religion. I think it’s hateful and terrible.  But this guy isn’t in the closet… technically… right? He’s out.  He says he’s gay. He says he’s attracted to men and not women. He says that he’s chosen the path that he wanted for his life.

I really didn’t want to believe him. I read the whole thing ready to think that he is a self-loathing closet-case. I don’t know that I got that from what he said. Here are he and his wife responding to the reaction they have gotten to their story:

The only place in his initial story where he kind of lost me was here:

But the reason I do this is because I love you, whoever you are, and I want to share my situation so that you can know further truth: I am gay. I am Mormon. I am married to a woman. I am happy every single day. My life is filled with joy. I have a wonderful sex life. And I’ve been married for ten years, and plan to be married for decades more to come to the woman of my dreams.

I tend to distrust people who say things like, “I am happy every single day of my life.” because it strikes me as an overreach of reality.  I would say that I am generally happy with my life… but am I filled with joy every single day?  I am not.  I bet you aren’t, either.  That’s okay. That’s life.  It makes me feel like he is trying to convince me how great his life is instead of honestly telling me about it.

As I see it, there are three possible things happening here:

  1. Josh is lying.  He is a lying liar who was probably strong-armed into a cookie-cutter life either by his family or his own religious guilt.
  2. Josh is brainwashed. He has been duped into believing that he is happy living this life.
  3. Josh is sincerely happy.  He made different choices than I would have, and different choices than I could possibly understand, but he is happy with the path he chose.

I’m going to throw this to all of you: What do you think?  Could any of you imagine, at any point in your life, making a choice like this?  Would any of the women here marry your gay best friend and raise a family together?  Do you doubt his sincerity?

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Nothnxplz

    I feel like he’s sincerely happy. But he must have some sort of religious guilt, or religious SOMETHING–why go for women when you know you like men? He could find love with men, too.

    Not that I think their relationship is devoid of love; I do think they’re both happy. But there’s a reason he’s chosen a woman over his natural desire for men, and it’s mostly likely to do with religion. I guess he’s got a lot of self-control in that respect.

  • Nmobryan

    Why is ”
    Josh is sincerely happy” option #3?

    The guy said he is happy. All indications are the guy acts the way we’d expect happy people to act.

    Unless you have some magic power to divine his true emotions, why not take him at his word and leave him the F alone?

  • Does not compute.

  • Joseph Auclair

    Perhaps the lie is that he is gay.

  • Tainda

    If he’s happy, who are we to judge?  Sex isn’t everything in a relationship.  I can’t see how they have a robust sex life though if he is ONLY attracted to men.

    I agree with you saying no one is happy every single day of their lives though.  

  • I think a likely possibility is that he’s lying about being gay and is an advertisement for the Mormon church that gay people don’t have to act gay. If he is sexually attracted to men and not women, I do not believe that he can have a happy or healthy sex life.

  • Mormons seem to a generally happy bunch.  Almost unhealthily happy.  As long as he is honest with himself (which he appears to be) I really have no problem with the choices that he made.  Although the one part I do doubt is the “robust sex life” unless that includes lots of porn.

  • Forget about whether he himself is happy, and ask if he is making others unhappy by suggesting that they follow in his footsteps.

  • Patterrssonn

    I don’t doubt that he’s generally happy if he says he is but I would doubt his sincerity if he claims he couldn’t be happier in a romantic relationship with a man. And if he’s holding himself up as a model for gay christians, that’s just evil.

  • epiph

    Maybe he is lying about being gay, or doesn’t realize how gay he isn’t. Maybe he doesn’t need sex to be happy (and hopefully his wife doesn’t either). Any way you look at it, there’s no reason for a gay person to look at this man and think that they would be perfectly happy with an opposite sex partner.

    Also, you can convince yourself you enjoy something even if you don’t. Or maybe he just pretends his wife is a man during sex?

  • If you truly believe you can “choose” to be “gay” or “straight,” and happy, no less; you’re bisexual. 

  • ProgRight

    Not to pick nits, but he specifically says “he is not sexually attracted to women” yet “has a robust sex life with his wife”.

    I would argue we need a clearer definition of what he considers a “robust sex life” or perhaps he is indeed sexually attracted to women but prefers the narrative of saying he’s not attracted to women.

    I’m leaning #2 with a wee dose of #1.

  • Perhaps love can be found in a multitude of different ways! 

  • Mike de Fleuriot

    I do not accept his claim to be gay. Of course there is nothing to show that he is not gay, but then we only have very biased people who say that he is gay. Does he sound like any gay person you have ever known?

    What is his motive here,  and how would his cult support it? It is, I suggest to show that gayness can be cured by belonging to the LSD’s and of course the “progressive” part of the Church would support this form of outreach.

    So not gay, and lying about it for Joe Smith.

  • More power to him. But I am seriously, seriously curious what he and his wife get up to in the bedroom that keeps it so robust if he’s not sexually attracted to women, because that’s the sort of sexual kung fu that should be shared with the world!

  • Nena

    This is extremely interesting to me. My girlfriend is ex-mormon (she didn’t leave the church to date girls, though; she is bisexual and so could have probably been happy in a relationship with a man, had that been the only problem). I want to remember to show her this and ask her about it tonight. I think she might have an informed perspective.

  • Adwindham

    I’m not sure what motivation someone would have to say they’re gay when they’re not gay or at least bisexual.  Maybe to get attention, but I have a hard time believing it’s some nefarious plot constructed by the church.  

    I don’t get how Quiverfull women can be happy living that way either.  Does that mean they’re not truly happy?  I don’t think so.  I think it just means I would not be happy living like that. 

  • houndies

    this is an odd one. i find myself wondering, as some here, if this might not be a ploy to show that even though one is gay he/she can suppress that lifestyle and have what the church considers to be a “normal” relationship. if he is turned on by men then i would think when he is with his wife he is thinking of men and not her. this in itself is warped. but, on the other paw, it takes all kinds and maybe he is for real. strange, but for real.

  • Edmond


    On the one hand, he makes a good case for the variety of humanity.  Few people fit into the narrow, rigid, homogenous boxes that religions often try to define.  There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, and all that.

    On the other hand, he stands out as an example of the “See?  Gay people can ALREADY get legally married!” nonsense.  This will fuel the argument that gay people should be perfectly happy with current marriage rights, since they’re applied equally to everyone, as long as they marry the opposite sex.

    This guy’s arrangement may work for him and his family, but it doesn’t even begin address the needs of gay and lesbian couples.  This will only embolden those who think that gay people should be happy to marry according to THEIR standards.

  • They say they’re happy, and they’re in a better position to know than I am. Assuming they’re telling the truth, I do think it’s sad that they find their happiness in religious delusion, but I don’t really care about that.  The people I feel sorry for are the ones who are going to be duped by Josh’s “testimony” into trying to find happiness the same way, and are going to fail miserably.

  • Gus Snarp

    Option 4: All of the above.

    I find his situation highly unlikely and unusual, but that doesn’t make it impossible. What it’s important to note is that if we assume Option 3: that he’s completely honest and happy, then that says nothing about other gay people. It’s not an argument that all gay people can be perfectly happy living a straight life, only that it works for him. Everyone has different experiences and needs emotionally and sexually, and if this works for him, great for him, but the problem comes when this is used as an argument that his experience can be generalized: it can’t.

    But I always go for the all of the above option. He probably is happy within his view of what happiness is and his experience, but it’s highly unlikely that this is a problem free situation, that it never causes stress in his life, that he never thinks about things outside of his experience and wonders. Possible, but unlikely. More likely that he’s being at least partially dishonest, not just with us, but with himself.

    As for the brainwashing: He’s a Mormon. Case closed.

  • Perhaps he loves Lolly as Lolly. He loves the person, instead of her body, her sex, her genitalia.

    Floundering around in incredulous perplexity asking “But how can he love her/be married to her/have sex with her?”  is just as clueless as asking how can a thin person love/marry/have sex with a fat person, or a beautiful one be with an ugly one.

    Let go of your assumptions and artificial boundaries and criteria that you think love is supposed to follow. That’s the great beauty of love, that it ignores all our chauvinisms.

    Welcome to the not-so-distant future, when such trivialities are not important enough to raise a single eyebrow to question the treasure of love.

  • Gus Snarp

    Perfect response.

  • epiph

     He said he likes having sex with Lolly, too. Not that he does. That he does it and likes it. Forgive me if that seems a little strange considering he also says he’s not attracted to women.

  • JulieC

    Why not?  Good on them for being so open with their story.  
    He’s been honest with her the whole time and is able to be happy with his situation. 
    I believe he loves her even without the sexual attraction.  I’ve known many worse marriages that may be based on sexual attraction but nothing else.  
    He is also not judging others and states that this is just his path.

  • Gus Snarp

    Yes, this whole thing could be completely manufactured, not just a little lie about being happy, or the spectrum of what it is to be gay, but a really big lie expressly designed as an argument against gay rights. If that’s the case, it’s even more disgusting than simply thinking his experience, if vaguely genuine can be generalized, and that’s evil enough on its own.

  • Without anything else, I think we have to take them at face value.

    It’s great they’ve each found someone to be happy with.

    Now, if only they would take the experience of the vast numbers of gay people at their face value.

    That a gay man is happily married to a straight woman doesn’t say anything one way or the other about the rights of any other consenting adults to marry.

    If you could take a pill to change your skin color, would that be an argument to overturn Loving v. Virginia?

  • I do not accept that it is possible to have a “wonderful” sex life with a person to whom you are not attracted. But according to Josh, I’m not doing sex right.

    “I won’t get into the boring details of the research here, but basically
    when sex is done right, at its deepest level it is about intimacy. It is
    about one human being connecting with another human being they love.”

    I’ve been with my husband for eight years. We love each other deeply, but intimacy doesn’t really enter into the bedroom for us. Intimacy, to me, are the little touches in the kitchen, holding hands in the car, kisses on the nose while cuddled up on the couch watching TV. Sex is about fucking and orgasms. But hey, I guess I’ve just doin’ it wrong.

  • Gus Snarp

    Apparently he’s a marriage and family therapist. This terrifies me. Even if he’s perfectly happy, he could be giving absolutely terrible advice expecting other people to be like him. I really hope that’s not the case.

  • This guy Josh has obviously been brainwashed. He should do what he really wants to, not what he’s been told to do.

  • Alexandra

    I can’t imagine how you could have a “healthy and robust sex life” if you are not at all attracted to your partner.  If a person can say that in no way does his partner turn him on, (which is what he implies by saying he’s not bisexual) I really don’t know what he mean by describing his sex life as “healthy.”

  • walkamungus

    Yes, Richard! Agree!

  • Jade

    After reading your post here, I was ready to join the others in saying that if he is happy, then he should do what he want. I would still say that, as I have a very “whatever floats your boat” type of feeling about the choices of others, but some of the comments he’s made in his article reek of homophobia.

    For instance: “If you are gay, you will have to choose to fill in the gaps somewhere.
    She chose to have a family in a way that is different than the ideal.” (in speaking about his therapist, who happened to be a lesbian.)

    Different than the ideal? This is the kind of thinking that hurts gay kids. That allows them to think horrible things about themselves, and makes them feel abnormal because they are sexually attracted to the same gender, or both genders or what have you.

    He makes a few other comments like this about gay people. About how they cannot have a relationship with God, about how marriage is between a man and a woman. I feel as though when he realized he was sexually attracted to men, he behaved in a way in which many straight, religious people tell gay people to behave: you can have those feelings, just don’t act on them. I have no doubt he is happy with his wife and his children. I would never tell him to change his life or regret his decisions. However, I think he is coming from a repressed, Mormon background that allowed him to “choose” to marry a woman, hold back his sexual urges toward men, and live the “idealized” life he always wanted for himself.

    Yes, it is hard being gay sometimes. You do have to alter your dreams for the future when you discover that having children may not be as simple or that your marriage may not be legal. But it’s things like this that create those heteronormative dreams in the first place. So what if gay people can’t always have biological children (although they very often can, which he seems to neglect in this article)? Gay people can live loving, fulfilled, (and spiritual, if that’s your thing) lives, and they do every single day.

  • Someone buy this man a dictionary.  If he is having a “healthy and robust sex life” with a woman, he is not gay he’s bisexual.  And arent we all? At least a little?

  • The Other Weirdo

    See, here’s the thing. For all the blathering on about how religions should keep their hands off of other people’s lives and out of their bedrooms, we can’t resist doing the exact same thing. What the hell gives anybody the right to second-guess this man and his wife? He says he’s happy, she agrees with him. Why is it necessary to write an article such as this,  and then say, well, he must fall into 1 of these 3 categories, but no more than that.

    Or is it that this doesn’t fit into a neat little mould that you’ve convinced yourself is the only possible way for people to act? I think it says more about you than about anything else.

    So he’s gay but lives with a woman. Doesn’t fit with how I know things must be. He is lying. To her or to himself to both. It cannot be so! He is too happy, but I am not so he must be lying. Must write article to discuss my incredulity with the universe.

    If this is what passes for BA in Literature these days, I’m glad I went into computers.

    Or perhaps you need to learn a bit more about life and love before passing such harsh judgement on people whom you know absolutely nothing about.

  • Honestly, your response seems utterly clueless to me. Nobody said he didn’t love her. Nobody said he didn’t have sex with her. But while a thin person can be attracted to a fat person, and a beautiful person can be attracted to an “ugly” person, he says right out that he never has been and never will be attracted to his wife. His wife knows that her husband has never been attracted to her and never will be. Yet they have what he characterizes as a “robust sex life.” Not many people would consider that a “triviality” or a matter of “chauvinism.” Most people would consider that a huge problem. They don’t, and you don’t either. Fine. But you’re kidding yourself if you think that’s what the future, distant or otherwise, looks like.

  • Gus Snarp

    You may well be right, but why’s he putting this out there if not as an argument that other gay people can/should live like him? And that’s a real problem. Especially since he’s a marriage and family therapist who says he specializes in LGBT issues and teens. His experience can be perfectly valid even though it doesn’t fit into a nice box, but that doesn’t mean it should be held up as an example for all gay youth.

  • epiph

     That terrifies me due to this quote from the article:
    “It is about one human being connecting with another human being they
    love. It is a beautiful physical manifestation of two people being
    connected in a truly vulnerable, intimate manner because they love each
    other profoundly. It is bodies connecting and souls connecting. It is
    beautiful and rich and fulfilling and spiritual and amazing.”

    As well as:
    “…the circumstances of our marriage allowed us to build a sexual
    relationship that is based on everything partners should want in their
    sex-life: intimacy, communication, genuine love and affection.”

    He’s probably making people think they’re horrible for being kinky even if they’re both straight as a rail. BDSM doesn’t appear on the surface to be very loving.

    He’s also probably teaching them that you don’t need sex/a spark/lust/attraction to have a successful marriage. If one or both people in the marriage are sexual beings, you’re going to need sex to be happy.

  • Stev84

    It’s also possible that he is bisexual

    But he is definitely brainwashed. Notice the part about the lesbian therapist where the first thing he notes is that she doesn’t have an “ideal family”. That’s what his cult has conditioned him to desire and it’s the only acceptable way for him to live. So he never allowed himself to seek anything else and he puts down people who doesn’t measure up.

    Gay people married to straight people don’t necessarily lack love for their spouses. They frequently marry their best friends and do care a lot for them. I have no problem with calling that love, but it’s not really the same as romantic love. But the issue here is that he has nothing to compare  his relationship to. He doesn’t know whether a gay relationship may not be more emotionally and sexually fulfilling for him.

  • Dan Mattina

    I personally believe he does not understand what he actually is. That being said, I believe that the Kinsey scale is a truth. Sexuality is not black and white it is shades of gray. For the little sexual education I assume that is taught to/believed by Mormons, he could be asexual. Brainwashing at its finest.

  • epiph

     When someone suggests we respond by passing legislation, you’ll have a case. Until then, your entire comment is meaningless.

  • BrianUtterback

    At first I had trouble with some of this, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it isn’t that difficult to understand.

    The problem I think we have here is the claim that he has a robust sex life with his wife,  to whom he is not sexually attracted.  Several people in the comments don’t think that is possible, but I think that it happens more often than we credit in heterosexual marriages, so why not in one like this? Since his wife is not gay, we can supposed that she is attracted to him, right? So, is this really so different from millions of other marriages where friendship and affection have grown while sexual attraction has waned?

  • Sarah T.

    Gay people sometimes fall in love with someone who is of the opposite sex. Straight people sometimes fall in love with someone of the same sex. That’s not the part of this story that I find troubling or unconvincing.

    (a) I have no doubt that Josh Weed and other Mormons will use his story as an example to other gay Mormons – you may be gay, but you can still be a good Mormon by getting straight married and having babies.
    (b) I don’t like that he equates ‘traditional’ relationships with heterosexual, monogamous relationships. Our current marriage structure is no more traditional than, say,  monogamous gay marriage.
    (c) I’m uncomfortable with the unquestioned assumption that children which are the biological offspring of both parents are the more desireable than any other kind of child.
    (d) If I were Mrs. Weed, I’d be pretty troubled that “I married my wife because I love her” is close to the end of the article, not at the very beginning.

  • Stev84

    Ideally, yeah, we’d leave him alone. But he is the one who chose to make his life public and make himself part of the Mormon PR campaign.

    And here is the real problem: he is a self-admitted ex-gay therapist! He works for an organization that offers “therapy” to change people’s sexual orientation. He is  not going to keep his ideas and ideals to himself.


    As a gay ex-Christian who struggled for years with same-sex attraction before finally deciding that the struggle was absolute bullshit (followed by the realization that the rest of the Bible/Christianity was bullshit as well), I can attest to how easy it is to delude yourself into thinking that you’re doing the right thing in suppressing your innate sexuality, and that God’s intent for humanity is Man+Woman. And you can’t buy into any of that unless you also buy into the eschatology that teaches that those who persevere to the end (i.e., embrace your internalized homophobia) will be saved.

    Bottom line, this poor guy (and girl) is hopelessly deluding himself. Ultimately, it’s his life but he’s doing serious harm by suggesting that this is how all people should live.

  • And of course, that’s exactly what he’s doing.

  • Stev84

     They appear to be happy. Part of it is facade. Utah has a very high rate of anti-depressant usage

  • sunburned

    All right, something is just not right here.

    “Yet my marriage is wonderful, and Lolly and I have an extremely healthy and robust sex life”.

    I pretty sure someone is lying, at least from my perspective at least my plumbing don’t work properly unless there is some attraction there.


  • Because as a gay man who spent years trying to suppress his sexuality, you can’t genuinely be happy and deny who you are. There’s always a part of you that is aching to be with someone of the same sex because that’s who you truly are. Imagine if we were forcing heterosexuals to live like homosexuals!

  • Alexandra

    Sure it happens in many marriages, but I wouldn’t describe a sex life where you’re not attracted to your partner as a “healthy and robust sex life.” 

  • “Josh is sincerely happy” is option number three because its difficult to believe, and because in this type of situation options one and two are commonplace. As a straight man, to put myself in Josh’s shoes I have to imagine living in a homosexual relationship. I cannot imagine being truly happy in that situation. Also as a former Mormon I know how the church permeates every facet of its members’ lives. He revealed to his parents at a young age that he was gay. It is very likely that his bishop(s) knew as well, and maybe even his teachers and home teachers. It is not unreasonable at all to think that he spent years being coached into the position he’s in now. Josh may be truly happy, but he may also simply believe he’s happy. He really has no basis for comparison because he’s never been in the type of relationship that is natural for him. I guess the question we have to ask ourselves is, is there a difference between believing you’re happy and actually being truly happy?  

  • In my attempts to turn “straight” in high school and college, I attempted to like a number of girls. Ultimately, though, I liked the idea of those women but wasn’t physically attracted to them at all. I was even attracted to the idea of being attracted to them because that was what it meant to be a Christian: you were fulfilling God’s design for human sexuality. Such bunk…

  • ortcutt

    What do Mormons consider a “extremely healthy and robust sex life” though?  If he’s talking about five minutes of missionary twice a week, I’m sure he’s capable of getting through it by thinking about a shirtless Ricky Martin.

  • Stev84

    Not only that, but he offers therapy for people trying to change their sexual orientation. In other words, he is an “ex-gay” quack. Just one with a very soft sell

    Here is another of his sites:

    “Unwanted same-sex attraction” is typical ex-gay language

    There is also some institute he is affiliated with that also makes it obvious, but I can’t find it at the moment

  • kitty

    If you really want to be horrified, check out the comments on the article Hemant linked.

    “You’d be surprised how many people are doing just what you are. It is
    not that unusual. I know many ‘homosexuals’ who live a married or chaste
    life more peacefully than most in the gay ‘community'”

  • SpontOrder

    What an interesting conundrum.   Our live and let live position on questions of sexual partnering and its permanence are put to the test by couples like the Weeds who are relationship outliers. 

    While I hope things continue to work for the Weeds, long term stability seems a reasonable concern given that there are older homosexual men, with families, current and former Mormons, who felt instructed by their church to marry and start families.  Sort of a fake it til you make it take on big life decisions.

    I don’t know that it’s doctrine, but certainly common teaching in Latter Day Saint circles that happiness comes from conforming to God’s laws.  So it’s reasonable to be concerned about the fruits of false hopes over reality.

  • Gus Snarp

    Why am I not surprised?

  • hyperfocused

    The only thing I take issue with here is how he can make any claim to a good/robust sex life if he hasn’t actually experienced sex with a person he is attracted to?

    The only comparison I can draw, in my mind, is to think about a time where I had sex with someone I wasn’t really into…and I can tell you, right now, that it didn’t hold a fucking candle to sex with someone who *really* attracted me.  Not even close.

    So yeah, at some level, getting off is getting off.  But I simply reject the notion that you can have any kind of a good sex life without physical attraction.  

  • I think you’re stuck in a narrow idea of what “attraction” requires, and what arousal requires. There is, for a few lucky people, more to sex than lust that can only be aroused by looking at a preferred type of person. For some, it’s more about an expression of their love of that particular individual.

    Old couples, with sagging breasts, flimsy muscles, and blotchy skin have sex. They enjoy their affection, their caring, and their selfless attentiveness to the other person’s needs and responses. If they really need to see a young and beautiful lover in bed with them, that’s what eyelids are for.  When the eyes close, the imagination sees whatever the libido desires.  The skin continues to receive its pleasurable sensations. Because they love and accept each other, fantasizing about whatever they wish is okay with them.

    As for the future, don’t underestimate its proximity by assuming that your own attitudes reflect a permanent majority.

  • Daniel Dingeldein

     I have to go with Sam on this one. First off, I can’t imagine ANY woman who would enter into a intimate, sexual relationship with a partner who by definition is not attracted to her. Secondly, I know plenty of gay men who have had sex with females, including gay men who were married for several years and they all said it just didn’t feel right. Especially the men who were married. They said that the intimacy was never a problem it was the fact that I was not being myself. Finally, I have to go with the theory that some part of the mormon church is behind this to show that gay people can have straight relationships like “normal people.” I bet the catholic church is kicking themselves in the ass right now for not thinking of this first!

  • Pedro Lemos

    What I didn´t get is: if he´s attracted to men and not women, why does he keep having sex with his wife? Either he IS attracted to her or he feels compelled to do that.
    I´m straight and I believe I could have sex with a man (it would be physically possible) but it doesn´t mean I would be wanting that or attracted to him. And it certainly wouldn´t make me feel happy. I would probably just do that if I was obliged to, either with a gun in my head, or a religious indocrination in my brain.
    So, I believe that yes, he IS bissexual, he just doesn´t know that yet, or is trying to deny this fact, wich would seen strange, considering he sees no problem in being labelled gay.

  • guest

    There are two things even those supportive have trouble understanding: gender and sexuality. Sexuality is different from love. For some people there’s no connection, for others the two are but always it’s more complicated than the people involved or outside usually understand.

    From my own experience I believe Josh is telling us the truth and was just using hyperbole when saying that he is always happy.

    I’ve felt sexual attraction to many men in my life but there are exactly two people I’ve felt romantically attracted to: my current boyfriend and a girl I was friends with in high school. I was never sexually attracted to her nor did I date her but I can see how another gay man might fell as Josh does about his wife, because after falling in love with my boyfriend I’ve found that there’s no one I’ve wanted to have sex with as much as him no matter that he’s not what I’d describe if I told someone what makes a man sexy. Romantic Love makes up the difference.

  • Strewth

    A possibility I haven’t seen in the comments. In addition to his homosexuality, Josh may have a paraphilia or fetish. Speaking from personal experience, if the triggers for the paraphilia are being hit sufficiently, the gender of the partner can be less important.

  • Don’t assume that your own attitudes are universal, or that all old couples find each other sexually unattractive, and have to resort to closing their eyes and imaging “what the libido desires.”

    What with all your contrasts between fat and thin, young and old, beautiful and “ugly,” you see seem to have ideas about attractiveness that are extremely constricted. The world is full of people who really are attracted to people they love, even if those people seem horribly unattractive to you — and it is they who are the lucky ones, who can love as deeply as you ever did, but still have sex with their eyes open.

  • I’m just making up names here. Heterosexual Bob can be physically attracted to Jane (and thinking of Jane) while having sex with his wife whom he is not sexually attracted to but loves never-the-less. I can envision that Josh can be sexually attracted to Steve (and thinking of Steve) while having sex with his wife whom he is not sexually attracted to but loves never-the-less.

    It seems, though, that he isn’t repulsed by the idea of sex with women. He is just neutral about it and prefers men. If there is a continuum from totally heterosexual to totally homosexual, perhaps he is not quite pegged all the way to the homosexual end. Maybe one-fourth of the way over from the homosexual extreme but not quite bi-sexual.

  • Aaron Scoggin

    So they have a great sex life, just separately from each other. You can’t really have a sex life without having sex, and you can’t really have sex without a sexual attraction (in the case of men, anyway).

    You can’t really say, “We have a great sex life, though I’m not sexually attracted to her.” If he has sex with her, then of course there’s a sexual attraction, which makes him bisexual or straight. The only way I can see around this is that he pretends she’s a man before and during the act.

    Nonetheless, it doesn’t affect be any, so I’m happy for them. 

  • Fsq

    It is his life. If the dude says he is happy, we really don’t have any right to say otherwise.

    From what you wrote, and what I could ascertain, it did not look like this was a deliberate propoganda campaign on his or his wife’s part.

    He says he is happy, he is happy.

    Who are we to question him?

  • Aaron Scoggin

    Imagine yourself, a straight male who loves breasts. Now imagine living with another dude and having sex with him. 

    The question is, why would you choose to have sex with someone who, if you’re really straight (or gay in this guy’s case), would probably make you gag even thinking about that way? Why not be with someone that you are attracted to?

    Add that to the fact that he says his family is supportive of his being gay, and there’s no denying that something fishy is going on.

  • I am perfectly comfortable with questioning this guys’ identity. Identity is not just some personal individual thing. It consists of cultural and social traits, too. I don’t get to claim that I’m a transsexual black woman just because I feel like that deep down inside while continuing to live in every other way as a cis white man. Are you telling me that if I claimed that that you would not question that claim??

  • Aaron Scoggin

    I’m not saying it’s wrong for them to be together. I don’t really care at all. But there’s definitely something suspicious about it, and since they’ve given themselves a public spotlight, it’s only natural for people to be inquisitive about it, especially when the people in question aren’t really giving any answers.

  • No. No some of us aren’t.

  • Fsq

    I dont know about you, but 95percent of all the couples, gay or otherwise, that I know are not ridiculously happy. They ALL appear to be happy, but behind closed doors really aren’t.

    We all put on appearances.

  • Fsq

    Unless I missed something in this article, I don’t see where he is asking to pass legislation for his bedroom antics.

  • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

    Ignorance is bliss

  • I haven’t made any of those assumptions, and  there’s nothing in my words that imply or state such assumptions. As for my mentioning fat, thin, beautiful, ugly, etc,  please don’t attribute to me what I’m using as an illustration of the making of narrow assumptions and prejudices about this couple that I’m reading in many comments here.
    You say,

    The world is full of people who really are attracted to people they love, even if those people seem horribly unattractive to you — and it is they who are the lucky ones, who can love as deeply as you ever did, but still have sex with their eyes open.

    Yes! that’s exactly what I’m getting at! We are in agreement. No one should make blanket assumptions about human sexuality based on their own personal experiences.

  • Justin Miyundees

    Just like gay marriage – this has nothing to do with me.  It’s their lives – they can do what they want.  I can’t imagine marrying someone with whom I don’t share a fulfilling sex life – this would be tantamount to my marrying another man, but I guess anything’s possible.  Whatev – point is they’re free to do as they see fit and gay couples should be allowed the same latitude.

  • Sackbut

    I scanned the article.  It seems to me he is not suggesting the path he chose will work for everybody, he is simply saying it works for him.  I have absolutely no problem with that.  I understand he is a counselor.  If he is indeed pushing his views in some way, rather than simply helping people who make the free choice to pursue a path like his, then I would have a problem with it.

    Sexuality is a complicated thing.  I don’t understand why people find it necessary, first, to put people into straitjacketed categories of “straight”, “gay” and “bi”, and then, second, to assume that each category is only associated with certain behaviors.  People in the porn industry are able to engage in sex acts not consistent with their particular category.  People in situations where their “usual” choice of sex partner is not available sometimes go a different route for a while.  And sexual preference criteria are not limited to the gender of the partner; a person may prefer a muscular woman to a slight man, or a young man to an old woman.

    In addition, some sexual preferences, such as those for children, or for partners married to other people, or for unwilling partners, are abusive and to be avoided; people may choose to deal with those preferences via fantasy.  Plenty of people fantasize while having sex, sometimes with the cooperation and participation of their partner or partners.  If everybody is happy, if they enjoy themselves, if they are close and they love each other, whose business is it but their own?  People also can respond to sexual stimulus without regard to the gender of the other person; a mouth is a mouth, a hand is a hand.

    What I find disturbing is not this couple’s situation, but some of the responses here.  It’s terrifying to suggest that intimacy and love are important?  Really?  It’s impossible to have a wonderful sex life with someone who doesn’t look like your ideal sex partner?  Really?  Doesn’t all of that depend on the wants and needs of the people involved?

  • Justin Miyundees

    I also think the majority of married couples today have eventually or will eventually lose their collective libidos, so this isn’t so far out of the norm as we might think.  It’s not for me, and I’d try to advise my children against living such a tedious boring existence where you pass on one of the greatest joys of being alive – I’m talking zesty sweaty eyeball popping sex – but what the hell – it’s no skin off my nose.

  • Mike

    No, not everyone is bisexual. And those of us that are and have to deal with the social consequences of it, discrimination from both straight and gay people, really don’t appreciate the marginalizition.

  • Daniel Schealler

    I find myself doubting his sincerity a bit, but I have very little to base that on other than my own experiences. That’s not a good enough reason for my doubt to stick, so I’ve got to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    If he’s truly happy, then good for him.

  • Mike

    I’m bisexual. I can’t choose to be gay or straight. I can’t choose who I’m attracted to any more than a gay or straight person. Also sexual attraction can be seperate from romantic attraction. He could be homosexual but heteroromantic.

  • The Captain

    Ugh I read this guys thing the other day, and he’s not “gay” he’s just bisexual but since he’s attracted to guys too, he falls into the trap of traditionally considering that “gay”. Now yes, sexuality is hugely more complicated than straight/gay/bi but he is obviously also attracted to his wife which he just discounts because he thinks only in straight/gay terms. As he says “I’ve never been turned on by a Victoria’s Secret commercial in my entire life”, no… but you obviously get turned on somehow by your wife. 

  • I don’t think I’d use the word bisexual if someone is exclusively gay, except for one specific person.  The term bisexual, to me, says that you are attracted to men and women.  Not men and a specific woman, or women and a specific man, but both in the general sense(not necessarily to an equal degree though)

  • Matthew D

    Simple…many fetishes or physical features can be applied to both genders, so it’s no stretch for a gay person that likes say, being tied up, to transfer that desire to a women, and be excited by it (even if to a lesser degree, it’s enough).  You could have a robust sex life and the kids that follow with nobody being the wiser, since such things are kept rather quiet in the bedroom. Of course, he could just be straight and trying to win one for the mormons….it’s hard to say what those people’s motivations are, really.

  • Daniel Schealler

    Careful there.

    Another possible interpretation is that he’s a 5.9 on the Kinsey Scale, with his wife being the missing 0.1.

    Somewhere else in this thread someone mentioned that he could be predominantly homosexual but heteromantic. That could very easily be the answer. 

    But ultimately, the answer doesn’t matter so much. How someone self-identifies is their own business. You or I may disagree with their reasons but it’s nothing to do with us.

    As I said below, I’ll concede that I do have some doubts of my own. But given that they’re largely unfounded I have to give him the benefit of those doubts.

    It doesn’t seem like you’ve got much more to found your doubts on than I do. In this context, hasty unfounded judgement smells a little bit like that weird scenario I hear about where someone who happens to be homosexual gets all bigoted towards bisexuals for ‘not really being gay’ or ‘faking it’ or whatever.

    That’s not a perfect analogy for what’s going on here. But it does have a similar smell. Passing judgement before we have enough substance to soundly base it upon is called pre-judgement. The distance between pre-judgement and prejudice is narrow. I don’t want to fall on the wrong side of that divide, so I’m erring on the side of caution and acceptance. 

    So I’d recommend more caution in your response to this article.

  • Matthew D

    Just a guess, of course. 🙂

  • The way I see it, I am not going to set myself in judgement over this guy, any more than I would over any other gay person, married person or religious person who was hurting nobody. That would make me as bad as the people I … well, the people I DO set myself in judgement over. 

  • Stev84

    Ok, I found it:

    “Josh also works helping those with sexual identity issues and unwanted sexual attractions and/or behaviors”

    Ironically, when it says “His work is dedicated to helping people combat patterns and beliefs that cause feelings of shame, hopelessness and despair.” it sounds like he should be fighting religious indoctrination and control.

    And note this part in the original article:
    “Being gay does not mean you are a sinner or that you are evil. Sin is
    in action, not in temptation or attraction.”

    He is in the “You can be gay, just don’t act on it” camp. It’s merely another way to say “Hate the sin, love the sinner”. Weed isn’t in any way pro-gay.

  • Stev84

    I wonder if they call it the “missionary position”. That may have some specific connotation for Mormons

  • Stev84

    People in the porn industry are able to engage in sex acts not consistent with their particular category.

    Yeah, and you can usually immediately tell who is faking it and who is really into it. Unless someone is a very good actor, the lack of passion shows. And the good companies that sell their product by advertising real chemistry don’t allow it.

    P.S. I’m strictly speaking up porn here and not making an analogy to his life

  • The Captain

    No, your absolutely right, I just didn’t feel like going into a long post 🙂 

    I actual find the Kinsey Scale to be a crude device for judging sexuality. It’s a complicated topic, and the definitions and criteria we normally use are crude at best, just as an example he may be attracted to the fantasy of being with men? But I’m not claiming that, just pointing out how complicated this all can get. But your right, it really doesn’t matter much, not a least in how we should treat him. 

    I was hinting at the bias of some homosexuals have towards bisexuals, but I was thinking he may hold that against himself in some word way. I have had several friends go through that. Other than it being wrong, it’s mind numbingly stupid (at least from my point of view). But in the end once again your right, we really don’t know enough to know.

  • The Captain

    *weird not “word” I spell baaaaaad.

  • Jordan Sugarman

    I have a Mormon friend who I have known since high school. I have always suspected that he is secretly gay. He used to spend all his free time with two other (non-Mormon) friends who both came out as gay in later years. Not that this is any indication, but they all had similar behavior patterns and interests (which I guess is why they were such good friends). Most notably, none of them really dated, or showed much interest in girls during high school.

    Anyway, he has been married for several years now, and has 3 kids. From all appearances, they are quite happy. But I’m still fairly convinced that he’s gay. One of these days I’ll get up the courage to ask the other two what they think.

  • Daniel Schealler

    Heh. No worries.

    Just trying to be careful. :pRegards to spelling: Do you not have an actual Disqus account? I have one and it means I can go back and edit previous posts.

    ‘Edit’ replaces ‘Like’ on comments that are my own.

  • G Alex Garver

    If homosexuality is an inherited trait then it exists today because homosexuals have regularly married the opposite sex and reproduced. It’s ridiculous to think this was all social and religious pressure and that none of them lover their spouses or had happy marriages. Geez their are gay porn stars that marry women. You have to accept people on their own testimony bc you don’t know what’s inside. I imagine there is struggle and doubt not expressed here, but they seem sincere in their intent. I hope it lasts a lifetime.

  • The Captain

    No I just post as “guest” and always use the same name. I should get around to doing that though.

  • The Captain

    “If homosexuality is an inherited trait then it exists today because homosexuals have regularly married the opposite sex and reproduced”Ahhh no. Short answer to a hugely complicated subject…recessive genes.

  • If homosexuality is an inherited trait then it exists today because homosexuals have regularly married the opposite sex and reproduced. 

    No.  If there is a ‘gay gene’ (and we don’t know to what extent homosexuality is genetic if at all) it is not necessary for gay people to have kids for the gene to survive.  People who are not gay could still have the gene, but not be gay due to other factors.  Having gay relatives who share most of your genome could be an adaptive advantage.

  • Niqi Archambault

    he says he is attracted to both men and women – he is bi not gay – and bi people can choose to be monogamous with either gender and have a happy marriage and sex life – he is not a gay man not attracted to women wishing he was feeling fulfilled. huge difference! 

  • Sue Blue

    Only Josh knows whether or not he’s lying or is truly happy.  I don’t think it’s impossible that he is happy.  My daughter is living with her male best friend, who is gay, and they have a very close relationship.  I don’t know if it includes sex or not, but they seem very happy together.  Maybe they just feel safe, I don’t know.  
    No person acts out all of their sexual desires or impulses.  I’ve been very attracted to several women in my life, but I’ve never acted on those feelings and I’m very happily married with children.  Possibly Josh is really bisexual.  If, as he says, he’s NEVER been turned on by a woman, I find it difficult to understand how he can have a fulfilling sex life with his wife, or that his wife can be all that happy knowing he is not “turned on” by her.  

  • True, but of course the vast majority of gay people throughout history did have biological children, so it would be a combination of both.

  • I don’t think there’s any reason a gay man needs to marry a woman, but if it works for him then great.

  •  You didn’t miss anything in the article, you missed everything in epiph’s comment. Jessica was curious about Josh’s situation, didn’t understand why he would make the choice he made so she wrote an article about it. She posited some possibilities based on her viewpoint and asked her readers for their thoughts. epiph is saying that all we’re doing is having a discussion about the situation. We are not proposing that anyone be legally prevented from making a choice simply because we don’t understand it or it’s different from what we’d do. That’s what religious people do. Josh is not being judged harshly as The Other Weirdo would have us believe. Jessica explicitly admitted to the possibility that, although she doesn’t understand how, Josh may be genuinely happy.     

  • the YouTube video is scripted.

    this whole issue is a sham.

    people are lying for jesus…, who knew?

  • WhatPaleBlueDot

    I do not find it impossible to be attracted to a person that is of a sort you are not normally attracted to.  But if he is not attracted to his wife, then he is lying about having a healthy sex life.

  • (c) I’m uncomfortable with the unquestioned assumption that children which are the biological offspring of both parents are the more desireable than any other kind of child.

    Yes, I found it disturbing that he considers that his lesbian therapist had to settle for less by having a non-biological child.

  • Thomas Farrell

    Possibility 4: Some of each of the above. He could be somewhat happy or at least content with his life, lying a bit about how much, and deluding himself into thinking he’s happier than he is.

  • Sarah T.

     He is an therapist focusing on ‘ex-gay’ therapy. If he’s NOT telling other gay Mormons to follow his path in life, then he’s literally not doing his job.

  • RebeccaSparks

    “If you really want to be horrified, check out the comments on the article Hemant 
    Jessica Bluemke linked.”


  • Gunstargreen

    I was going to post something but you pretty much nailed it already.

  • This. Basically, if both individuals are consenting adults, I don’t give a damn whether it is biology or choice or both which determines anything, and I don’t see why anybody else should care either. Anything less than full bodily autonomy for consenting adults is nothing more than a form of slavery, IMHO.

  • Pseudonym

    While I get what you’re saying, I regard any argument with deep suspicion if it goes straight for the conspiracy theory without passing “Go” or collecting $200.

    The only evidence evidence we have that this guy is lying is that his story doesn’t fit with our preconceived notions. Mine too, for what it’s worth. Welcome to reality, where the evidence does not support any of your biases, no matter what they are.

    Here’s an odd statistic that’s never sat well with me, either. If you go by divorce rates, arranged marriages have a success rate that’s equal to non-arranged marriages.

    Could it be that raw sexual attraction (which is what we often use as the first layer of screening when choosing our potential mates) is just a poor predictor of what makes an intimate relationship successful?

  • Pseudonym

    FWIW, I completely agree with this. I’m inclined to believe him about his own relationship, especially since he considers himself “gay” and not “ex-gay”. But this is bloody dangerous.

  • Pseudonym

    But here’s the thing: revulsion is the opposite of
    attraction, not the absence of attraction.

    I think I can relate to that. As far as I know, I’m completely straight. The idea of having sex with another dude… well, I don’t really have an opinion on it. I could probably work out what to do. I could probably enjoy the physical act. Gay guys do it because it feels good, right? It’s neither a turn-off, nor a turn-on. It’s just not something that I can bring myself to care about, and hence not something I care for.

  • Pseudonym

    Spot on.

    Richard rightly points out that we shouldn’t make assumptions about other people’s intimate relationships based on our own experience. But this guy is calling himself a marriage therapist and counselling people with “unwanted sexual attraction” or some such bunk.

    He is very likely to be making assumptions about other people’s relationships based on his own experience. In our case, we’re a bunch of people on the Internet, so our opinion doesn’t matter. In his case, because he’s doing it in the context of a professional in-care relationship. That, by contrast, is outright dangerous.

  • Pseudonym

    I don’t think he is denying who he is. He is openly gay, and says so right there.

  • Pseudonym

    As I noted above, revulsion (i.e. making you “gag”, as you put it) is the opposite of attraction. It is not the absence of attraction.

    The idea of sex with another dude doesn’t make me (an apparently straight guy) gag. It doesn’t do anything for me, but the mere thought doesn’t result in violent convulsions.

  • Ken

    OK, this tips the scales towards a conspiracy theory.  It kinda evokes my questions concerning Jesus being tempted by the devil in the wilderness.  Was he truly tempted, as in did he want what was being offered?  If so, he was committing thought crime by coveting, and therefore hardly “perfect.”  On the other hand, I like ice cream, but usually deny the craving in the best interest of my health.  I guess this gay but happily sleeps with a woman scenario is possible, but it sure feels like a setup to recruit Mormon gays for some guiltwashing.

  • Guest

    “I tend to distrust people who say things like, ‘I am happy every single day of my life.’ because it strikes me as an overreach of reality.”
    I’m skeptical as well. That’s just a little “too” happy to be believable. A Mormon friend of mine who was going through a very difficult time and was noticeably discouraged still touted the “I’m just so happy and content all the time” line whenever we talked. It seemed fake, and I called his bluff, to no avail.  The Bible is full of depressed people who are pissed off at God and life.  Is it really taught in the Mormon church to put up such a facade?

  • Jessica,  Please believe that many of us see monogamy as the next religion to fall.  

  • Stev84

    Yeah, that’s how I see it too. I really couldn’t care less about his life. I find it a bad sad because I think his church kind of forced this on him, but it’s his decision.

    However, I do have a problem with him advertising his story on the web like that and trying to present himself as an example, as well as offering biased “therapy” for people like him.

  • EivindKjorstad

     Not really. None of the comments have been critical of what he’s actually *doing*.

    Ofcourse he’s free to marry a woman ! Ofcourse he’s free to have sex with her !

    What some *have* questioned is in what sense, precisely, his claim to be gay is credible, given the above. Can you really be purely gay, yet also perfectly happy with a “robust sexlife” that is only with a woman ? In what sense are you gay if that’s the case ?

    The way I see it, either he is attracted sexually to his wife – in which case he’s not really gay allthough perhaps bisexual. Or he’s *not* attracted to her, in which case his sex-life cannot be all that “robust” (allthough it can still be sufficient for his happiness – hell there’s couples who don’t have sex with eachother at all, and still are happy – but they don’t typically claim a robust sexlife)

  • Krisula Xmo

    “turn it off! Like a light switch, just go click. It’s our cool little Mormon trick. …we do it all the time. When you’re feeling pesky feelings that just don’t seem right,
    Treat those pesky feelings like a reading light and turn em off,…”

  • SabsDkPrncs

     He did address (d) in a Q & A he did on Gawker.  Loving God comes first in his and his wife’s life, so saying he loves his wife seems like an afterthought because it is.

  • Anonymous

    What a sham! They’re actually just roommates. The kids are child actors. Case closed.

  • James

    I think the gay community won’t look too kindly on this. And what about the bisexuals? Everyone always forgets about the bisexuals…

  • SabsDkPrncs

     I’m of the belief this is Mormon propaganda.  I think any kink or fetish would be considered just as deviant and sinful as homosexuality by the LDS establishment.

  • AxeGrrl

    Josh may be truly happy, but he may also simply believe he’s happy. He really has no basis for comparison because he’s never been in the type of relationship that is natural for him

    That’s precisely what I was thinking.

    I don’t doubt that he’s happy ~ people are capable of ‘making the best of things’ and being as happy as they can in a less than ideal situation.  I think that’s the case here.

    He’s being honest with his wife and she continues to choose to be with him.  If they’re both content with their joined lives, great.  But i’ll say this……I believe that if Josh had ever fallen deeply in love with another man, he probably wouldn’t be able to be as content in his current life as he is. 

    Not knowing what you’re missing makes being ‘content’ a hell of a lot easier.

  • AxeGrrl

    Bingo.  You nailed it 🙂

  • AxeGrrl

    No one should make blanket assumptions about human sexuality based on their own personal experiences.

    Amen! but that’s soooooo hard not to do for human beings, whether it’s related to sexuality or any other human experience, eh?

    People don’t look at other people and imagine things from that other person’s perspective, they look at them and imagine how they would feel if they were in the other person’s position……the result?  projection, projection, projection. 

    It’s one of the most fundamental barriers we humans have that prevents us from truly understanding someone else’s experience.

  • AxeGrrl

    It’s great they’ve each found someone to be happy with.
    Now, if only they would take the experience of the vast numbers of gay people at their face value.

    This X 1000 !

    If he weren’t directing his story to others (note where he says “the reason I do this is because I love you, whoever you are”), I wouldn’t have ANY issues with his story…..

    but he is doing that.  And that’s a big problem.

  • amycas

     It could also be that those in arranged marriages tend to also be in cultures where divorce is not seen or encouraged as an option.

  • amycas

     I’m bisexual, but I tend to enjoy relationships with men more than relationships with women.

  • amycas

     Yes, thank you. It’s almost as bad as being told my orientation doesn’t exist.

  • Sindigo

    If it works for him, then great. It adds weight to the argument that human sexuality and relationships are far too complex for a simple one-size -fits all approach and we all need to be as tolerant as possible of other people’s lifestyles. 

    That being said (and I’m aware of the irony of extolling the virtues of tolerance and then even thinking, let alone saying this in a public forum) I’d be willing to bet that he’ll be living a loft apartment with another guy in 20 years having been caught having an illicit affair and been thrown out of the church.

  • Stev84

    That’s pretty standard in fundamentalist circles. The order goes god -> others -> self. It’s an often repeated mantra that you can often read in blogs written by Christian patriarchy survivors for example

  • Davids95

    Seems contradictory. How do you have a healthy sex life without desire/attraction. Sounds to me like sex is a mechanical thing and not the amazing and emotionally charged experience it can be. That’s sad.

  • The Other Weirdo

     So what, now I’m not allowed to comment on people butting into other people’s bedrooms where they don’t belong? When did we reach that stage of development? I thought this was what theists did, not atheists. I guess we’re not so different after all.

  • Borax

    OK. I’m gonna play the devils advocate. As screwed up as the Mormons are when it comes to sexuality in general, this might make sense.  I mean we are talking about people who wear magic underwear and think sex should only be for procreation.

  • The Other Weirdo

     She wasn’t being curious. She was being harsh and judgmental and incredulous. If she had said “Hmm, I guess life and love find a way,” I would’ve stayed quiet.
    As it was, however, because she’s never that happy, she can’t accept the situation. Not “she can’t understand the situation”, she can’t accept it. That’s what my comment was directed toward.

  • The Other Weirdo

     That’s presumptuous of you, claiming to know everybody’s orientation, even people you’ve never met in real life.

  • Raven Symone


  • The Other Weirdo

    I don’t believe in evolution. It just doesn’t seem possible to me that we evolved from monkeys.

    If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys around? It doesn’t makes any sense to me, so it can’t be true.

    Sound familiar?

  • He’s bisexual! They have an active sex life.

  • What?

    “I want to make it very clear that while I have found a path that brings me profound joy and that is the right path for me, I don’t endorse this as the only path for somebody who is gay and religious. I will never, ever judge somebody else’s path as being “incorrect” and I know many people who have chosen different paths than myself.”  
    It doesn’t sound like he’s suggesting to heavily that people should follow his footsteps. 
    Even if he were though it wouldn’t matter. People can ignore such a suggestion if they want, no one is forcing them to follow it. Suggestions are in all forms of media, politics, atheist writing, religious writing, and pretty much every form of communication. You cannot stop people from making suggestions. That would be an outrageous violation of the right to free speech. It would make it impossible. 

  • Thegoodman

    Typical mormon mysogyny. The MAN is happy. What the MAN wants is the important part, right?

    Does anyone care that his wife is married to a man that publicly says he is not attracted to her, that he ONLY has sexual desires for men? I’d like to hear her internal monologue when he is saying these things. This poor girl. She must feel so inadequate, even her husband says she is not what he desires and she has been brainwashed by a cultish church to think it is ok to play 2nd fiddle in a marriage.

  • Parse

    I don’t see JOSH as pushing others to follow his footsteps.  I foresee others using Josh’s story, to try to lock others in the closet.  “Oh, you’re a gay man?  Well, you can still live the Ideal Mormon Lifestyle, with a wife and kids.”  And if you don’t see how that can be harmful to a person, well, I can’t really help you with that.
    As for the second half of your comment, where did that come from?  Do you see anybody here trying to STOP Josh from telling his story?

  • Salty

    It’s the position least likely to result in orgasm for the woman.  Woman can’t be taught to enjoy sex.

  • Coyotenose

    If he isn’t demanding that other people do as he did, then more power to him. It’s entirely possible that he’s telling the truth. People are often uncategorizable.

    By way of example, I know of a twenty-something artist who considered herself straight through high school, realized she was a lesbian in college and -ahem- made the most of it… but then fell in love with a British man she met online. They’re married now, and she says that he is the only man to whom she’s attracted. All her other crushes, her fantasies, etc., involve women. It SOUNDS like a bad male fantasy, but that’s just her.

  • It’s a very common habit of humans, but it’s not so deeply primal that we can’t stop doing it.

    All we have to do is to not assume that our viewpoint is the viewpoint. We can acknowledge that yes, our primary source of reference is our own experience, but we certainly don’t have to assume that ours is the only valid one. It just takes a little more humility and awareness, not a huge enlightening upheaval of our egos to simply refrain from fully buying in to our initial judgments of others.

    This ability to stay conscious of our own bias and keep just a bit of our minds open to the validity of others’ experience can be taught. I learned it from others, I’ve helped others to learn it, and I’ve watched people learn it from each other.

  • Ryan Bauer

    “What the hell gives anybody the right to second-guess this man and his wife? He says he’s happy, she agrees with him. Why is it necessary to write an article such as this,  and then say, well, he must fall into 1 of these 3 categories, but no more than that.”

    The Other Weirdo, this is a blog that caters to the interests of people who frequently describe themselves as skeptics. As a skeptic, I don’t usually accept what I’m told straight away. This is why we are second-guessing this man and his wife.

    He is a Mormon and a therapist that counsels people who want to overcome their homosexuality, as if that was possible. These are two very good reasons to doubt the authenticity of his statements.

  • Derekphoffman01

    I was put in his same situation but didn’t have the proper advising to make a legitimate decision.  I couldn’t comprehend the possibilities and chose to divorce my wife and come out of the closet, even though I love her dearly and was genuinely happy with her, I wasn’t aware that staying with her was an option.  I’ve read books with examples of this happening although their more “open relationships” but I have to tip my hat to him…

  • Derekphoffman01

    *they’re…. dammit…

  • Salty

    Even more nuanced than the Kinsey scale, this might help:

  • Salty
  • Gonna go with “DEEP in denial” — Not necessarily consciously lying, but… he’s definitely lying to himself.

  • guest

    Mr Garrison was right! it does get you chicks! ;3

  •  And when they remember us, it’s just to bitch and whine about how we need to “hurry up and pick a side!”

    It’s also next to impossible to date. Men worry that you’ll leave them for a woman. Women worry that you’ll leave them for a man.

  • Mark

    I dated a Mormon for about 5 years. She had left the church. By the accounts of meeting the family and her statements Mormons play happy all the time no matter what. The whole family always had a smile on their face no matter how much their life was in turmoil. I think happiness is the “crack” that keeps the Mormon religion alive. All manufactured.

  • Mdwelch27

    IF these guys feel, as a number of christians do, that sex is for the purpose of procreatrion, then perhaps they feels as if their sex life is fine.  In his mind, Josh is doing god’s will by having sex with his wife.  Now I am not saying I agree with his perspective nor do i think i could do the same , but there is a bit of internal logig given his belief system (that’s a weird sentence to write). 

    He may be repressing significantly and perhaps even twisting himself into knots subconsciously, but I cannot doubt his sincerity after watching the video.  They both seem genuinely happy and open to others’ ideas.  i look forward to more of their story.

  • Gmihov

    Ok I’m sorry to be negative but this guy is lying! Being gay I having tried so many times as a teenager to be with girls, I know very well that if you are not attracted to women you don’t get an erection around them, and therefore you cannot perform a sexual act with them. Much less have a “robust sex life”. Unless your wife bangs you with a strap on dildo.

  • Gmihov

    I think it’s pretty obvious that this is a scam and religious-right propaganda trying desperately to convince people that gay men can lead a satisfying heterosexual life. Something that so many of us have tried time and again and know from experience that it doesn’t work.

  • The Other Weirdo

     This is exactly what they do to us, and we complain bitterly about it, and they aren’t even skeptics.  Instead of accepting our stated reasons for why we’re atheists, they instead come up with a myriad alternative explanations that make them feel better about themselves. The OP is exactly the same thing.

  • To some extent, yes. I have colleagues who I would call friends in India. Arranged marriages are the majority of relationships, but they are different in higher classes than in lower ones. My higher class colleagues got “a vote” in the choosing of their spouse, it’s that their vote was not the only vote. Where families really know one another and value one another’s happiness, they often together create extremely good matches.

    Amongst the more rural and poorer society as a whole, this option doesn’t seem to exist.

    The entire society is definitely still strongly patriarchal, with very rigid gender roles, but again, some of that is changing as India grows. 

  • You asked the question: Would any of the women here marry your gay best friend and raise a family together?

    Let me tell you, I’m a gay woman who married my straight best friend in an attempt to “fit in” and “live a Christian life” because I thought that was what was expected of me by God and lots of very real people here on this planet, like my parents and my friends. Without any direct mention of the subject – I remember ABSOLUTELY no direct conversations about sexuality and the Christian Church. Josh Weed is definitely feeding that soft / indirect message that if you are homosexual and Christian/Mormon, you can and should settle for less in your life.

    I tried and tried to make this work. For 11 years. I was miserable almost all 11 of them. I suspect 1 and a little bit of 2. The pervasiveness of anti-homosexual culture is astounding in how it can warp your head as a teenager. 

    I think particularly telling his his asking his now-wife “If you won’t marry me, who will?” That question is exactly how I got where I got. 

  • rlwemm

    How can he be homosexually orientated but marry “the woman of (his) dreams?  If he is as gay as he says he is then his dreams will be about men, not women.  This phrase, together with his over the top claim of constant happiness, makes me very suspicious of his integrity. I smell a religious rat.

  • rlwemm

     That changes everything!  The guy is financially orientated.  What better way to drum up business that fake an exclusive homosexual orientation that has been “cured” or contained by the type of therapy that you offer.  FAKE.

  • rlwemm

     That is a very good point.  In my profession (psychology) I have come across of lot of “sunday mask christians”  who claim to be deliriously happy because this is what they believe is expected of them by their religious friends and leaders.  If you scratch the surface even slightly you discover that this is a desperate facade that takes a lot of emotional energy to maintain.  What is underneath is either near enough to “normal” but more often than not, is tortured horror.

  • rlwemm

     There is a scale of gender orientation that goes from extreme heterosexual orientation at one end (and a gag reflex to homosexual relations) through equal attraction to both sexes to extreme homosexual orientation at the other end (and a gag reflex to heterosexual relations.)   You have falsely assumed that only the two end points exist. 

  • rlwemm

     That’s something we didn’t think of!  There is also a scale of sexual desire.  Some are so horny that they want to have sex ten times a day while others are happy with once a year.  Perhaps this guy is at the “once a year” end of the spectrum.  In that case, he is treating his wife as a “best friend” rather than a sexual mate. 

  • Pseudonym

    I think you meant to respond to Aaron Scoggin, not me. I explicitly indicated that at least three positions exist: attraction, revulsion, and the absence of both.

    I also happen to agree that there are points in-between, and the landscape is probably more than one-dimensional.

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