Says Pastor: This is a Christian Nation and Atheists Should Move Out June 5, 2012

Says Pastor: This is a Christian Nation and Atheists Should Move Out

Pastor John Hagee was feeling the Christian love this past Sunday.

He was reflecting on the sacrifices our soldiers made on D-Day, which happened 68 years ago tomorrow, when he thought it was a perfect moment to call out the atheists.

They’re saying that the 10 Commandments have been taken out of the courtrooms and out of the schoolhouses lest we offend the atheists. Let me be very clear. This country was not built for atheists nor by atheists.  It was built by Christian people who believed in the word of God.

To the atheists watching this telecast: If our belief in God offends you, move! There are planes leaving every hour on the hour going every place on planet Earth.  Get on one! We don’t want you, and we won’t miss you, I promise you. Our coins say “In God We Trust.” President Obama recently has told the foreign media that America is not a Christian nation.  You’re absolutely wrong.  We were, we are, and always shall be a Bible reading, praying, Christian people.

Several years ago, witchcraft and Satanism were official approved by the U.S. military at the direction of the U.S. Congress.  We have officially chosen to recognize another god. I call upon the members of Congress to outlaw the practice of witchcraft and Satanism in the U.S. military lest we offend the god of heaven. I don’t care about the atheist.

Isn’t that pleasant? Is everyone else just basking in the warm glow of that sermon?

Mr. Hagee, I am glad you can spit such venomous hate from your pulpit.  I’m glad that just because you think the fever dream of a book that is your Bible is true to the letter, you think that you somehow have dominion over the United States.  I don’t think it gets that specific, but I am sure it must feel super great to be the “cranky neighbor” of the country, yelling at all of the atheists to “get off my lawn!”

I don’t feel like going into the “Christian nation” thing anymore.  It’s a stupid argument, and it’s wrong.

I’m not even going to make fun of him for saying “schoolhouses,” like this is Little House on the Prairie. Or for believing that atheists are watching his telecast.

Frankly, I think that going too deeply in any of his blathering would be a waste of time because it gives his words too much credit.  He’s wrong, and anyone who has the cognitive ability to read this article knows it.  He sees the world in black and white.  With us or against us.  I’m not sure what the Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist population has to say about all of this.  I presume he wants them to get on a plane, too.

Did this man utterly miss the point of the founding of the country?  The whole “fleeing religious persecution” thing?

Keep it up, Mr. Hagee.  Between you and Charles Worley, you’re really setting the bar for Christian love everywhere.

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  • I feel the love like hands around my throat. 

  • Peter White

    The USA would be so much better of without most of its doctors, nurses, scientists, professors, and definitely the Nobel prize winners. Welcome to your new world Mr. Hagee.

  • John Purcell

    What he’s really railing against is the fact this country is secular, and that just doesn’t sit well with him. He and his ilk are doing everything  in their power to change this country into something it was set up explicitly to NOT be – theistic.

    So, the best response to this nonsense is to point out that there actually ARE theistic countries in the world, and there are planes leaving every day that can take him and his followers to wallow in their god. Of course, they have to compete with another god where it is (Hint: very warm, they don’t think highly of the fairer sex), but at least they’ll be able to  live in a country where all the laws come from a scripture.

  • Jake

    “We don’t want you, and we won’t miss you, I promise you.’
    I’m sure the scientific industry would experience a boom like never before. What an idiot.

  • What a hateful troll of a man.

  • Justin Miyundees

    Is this the first call for a theocracy?  Took them a mere 223 years to remove what made this country the sanctuary of free thought and enlightenment that it was.  

    Wish I could dig up the “sermon” where Hagee goes bananas claiming he will”LITERALLY walk on streets of gold.”  It is a piece of delusional batshit that every Christian should consider “LITERALLY” and decide if the guy is nuts and whose side they are on.

  • They want their religion to be tolerated, then they had better tolerate other religions and nonreligions. I’d imagine very few countries, if any, still have 100% all the same religious belief since it was founded. Going to try to employ your beliefs on the rest of the world next, pastor?

  • Great IAM

    This is the same old shit they all preach. Fear and hate is the reason for their success. The followers get scared and learn to hate and the leaders get filthy rich. Another form of capitalism only worse. The followers get nothing in return. Theocracy…

    Jesus would be rolling in his Shroud of Turin if he only had existed.

  • raytheist

    Hey don’t make fun of “Little House on the Prairie”.  Laura Ingalls Wilder was my great-grandmother’s cousin (Alice Josephine Ingalls Whiting)

  • mikespeir

    Well, Pastor John, if you’ll fund the language course, provide the travel expenses, and set me up with a pension for life, I’ll move to Sweden.  Deal?  If not, you’re stuck with me.

  • Miko

    Fleeing religious persecution is a myth.  Once they arrived, the colonialists were all too happy to engage in religious persecution.  They just wanted to go somewhere where they could practice their own particular forms of religious persecution.

  • John Purcell

    My daughter watches that every day. Constantly. Incessantly. Mind numbingly. I swear there’s a channel devoted to it. I hope your family gets royalties, because if they do, you’re filthy rich.

  • He obviously doesn’t understand what an atheist is or he wouldn’t be equating witchcraft and satanism with atheism. 

  • jdm8

    Yeah, the US government was never Christian, they can stomp all they want, but yelling never made it true.  You don’t even have to take the word of a “Kenyan born” person.  Didn’t President Washington the USA wasn’t a Christian Nation?

  • Justin Miyundees

    Clearly atheists are satanists and wiccans because … oh wait – no their not – they’re ATHEIST!    

    I’m starting to think this asshole is full of shit.

    I’m watching his videos on his Youtube channel.  He has no shame – playing on the pain of widows and orphans.  Jesus Christ on a stick – what a jerk.

  • Matt


  • raytheist

    Naahhhh… no royalties or anything.  🙂   Mostly I just get bragging rights or something from being almost direct kin.  I have their genealogy bookmarked for reference.  

  • GPC

    It isn’t fair to attack atheists like this when a lot of religious people want the country to be secular as well. Why pick on us? I guess we’re an easy target.

  • Rogerhewitt

    Christianity is inherently intolerant. They believe that what they
    believe is absolute and must proselytize the “truth”, validate their
    superstition and the word of the bible, written by men mostly 300 years after
    the fact of anything.  God never really wrote anything at all, illiterate
    I guess, rather it is all inspired revelation.  It is one if not the most
    destructive ideas of mankind, Christianity. Whatever, Jesus had to say has been
    so distorted as to be irrelevant.  It is the worse idea of mankind. 

  • Tom_Nightingale

    I find it absolutely amazing how atheism is synonymous with witchcraft and Satan worship.  I believe it’s worth looking further at if you are interested in how theists think.  There is a dichotomy within their minds, because if you are not on one side (God) you are on the other (Satan/selfish pleasures).  There does not exist a naturalistic, secular alternative.  Agnostics have at least considered that, which is a step towards taking responsibility for what you believe is good and bad in this world (your values).  Many uneducated people are not equipped with the tools of reason that would enable them to handle complicated moral choices, thus having a voice on your shoulder (God) makes all those nagging moral questions much easier.  And if you are not listening to the God side, there’s only one other….

  • Tom_Nightingale

    Um, I think he’s a jerk too, but I *unlike* your flame-y post.

  • Hpunster

     The colonists, yes. But, the Founding Fathers had more sense than that.

  • I’m not even going to make fun of him for saying “schoolhouses,” like this is Little House on the Prairie.

    This sentence is such an oxymoron.

  • He’s an old, conservative, white man, who looks none to healthy. Soon he’ll die. And the nation will be better off without him.

  • Iloveyeshuajc

    2012 ad Jesus existed lol . Bible says that its not for everyone may will call on god and he wont know them. I love MANY atheist’s =D. All people and they love me back! some people were born rude an offensive.

  • Sware

    True. 30 of my years I was a “believer” yet all that time I was never part of the “it’s a Christian nation” club. Actually I recall arguing with other theists even then about getting god references out of schools on the grounds of fairness and equality of all citizens. It would be interesting to know some stats among theists on this.

  • Aimee

    Every time I see these fellows getting this kind of attention it puts my teeth on edge.  

  • A man of reason

    About 11 years ago I met with John Hagee and his son (then a college student at Oral Roberts, I believe) in the Pastor’s office at his Cornerstone Church in North San Antonio. A friend of mine had asked me to help him with a business presentation to the Pastor and his son. Well, we met with the two for about two hours. In the middle of the presentation there was a knock on the door of the large office. Tom’s Ribs, a rib restaurant that is located on the the south end of the Cornerstone property (which is HUGE) had delivered what seemed like rib lunch for the Pastor’s entire office staff . Well, Mr Hagee and his son began to devour those ribs like there was no tomorrow. Forget the fact that they didn’t offer my friend, me or their staff to join them. They paid little to no attention to the rest of the presentation and both had rib sauce spots on their shirts when the dust cleared. Wow. OK, I know that this little story is just my experience with the man, but I will say this: the man (and his son) ate with a certain gluttonous zeal I will never forget – unfortunately. I should have expected this kind of behavior considering his absolute lack of respect for historical truth and dialogue. What’s fucked up is that his son will inherit his big business and carry on with the same shit for generations. 

  • scinquiry

    They sincerely believe that we, as atheists, have been deceived by Satan.  So in their eyes, we are satanists.  That is their logic.  As per Verbal Kint in ‘The Usual Suspects’: “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist.”  Makes total sense…… I say it was the teapot.  Prove me wrong. heretics. 

  • usclat

    Your words remind me of what Christopher Hitchens said on the death of another human feces, Jerry Falwell. Do you recall what the great CH said about where you could bury Falwell if you gave him an enema? 

  • Kitchengardener

    Hagee can kiss my atheist ass.

  • mjk

    Founding fathers were secular deists that would roll over in their graves if they saw what happened to their country of ‘freedom’…

  • scinquiry

    I just thought of a kick ass science fiction plot good enough for Kilgore Trout.  Atheists build a spaceship to found a new planet leaving behind all the dickheads like Hagee.  The trip gets ruined by some sanctimonious religious nut, played by Jake Buse, who snuck on board to save our souls.  I see an Oscar in my future.  Absolutely no stories have every followed that plot line before.

  • DG

    No problem there.  I disagree with what he says, but he has a right to say it.  Every bit as much as atheists who say this is a secular nation, and all religion should be banished to the closets.  It’s their right to say what they think.  Freedom and all.  Personally, I disagree with both extremes.

  • When I was a Christian, I was in that group. I believed, and still believe, that separation of church and state is essential for religious liberty.

  • Treaty of Tripoli is pretty clear and was signed by John Adams after being approved unanimously. 

  • They do have a Biblical basis for that dichotomy. Jesus said and I’m paraphrasing, “He who is not with me, is against me.” 

  • zeggman

    Hey Hagee, if our belief in the Bill of Rights offends you, move. 

  • Animal63

    I guess Pastor Hagee must’ve forgotten that gluttony is a sin. And Jesus would’ve taken issue with Hagee and his son not offering you any of their meal.

  • Great IAM

    Why can’t the christians of america realize that they are being taken for the biggest scam in all of history!? It’s a sad reality that we must witness.

  • Tony

    Men like this are very dangerous.  Watching how his followers applaud him makes me wonder what kind of education they obtained while growing up.  Scary.

  • Au_catboy

    And who, aside from your army of poorly-built strawmen, said Hagee does not have the right to be a lying, bigoted sociopathic piece of shit?   What he doesn’t have is the right to be shielded from all criticism of his vile bigoted lies. 

    But, of course, I’m sure you’ll insist yet again that you have no dog in this fight, and that’s why you’re feeding bacon to the psychotic rabid attack dog, while kicking the innocent puppy it just attacked for no reason. 

    If you really disagree with extremists, why is the VERY FIRST THING you do is reach for a strawman so you can jump to the defense of the extremists when they’re not actually being attacked?

  • Tdreher_1

    Love the Kilgore Trout reference.

  • rhodent

    If you’re referring to the Treaty of Tripoli, that was ratified during Adams’ presidency. 

  • Rstafrommars


  • Actually, it depended on the colony. The Puritans of Massachusetts were notorious for persecuting those who disagreed with them. However, the Quaker colony of Pennsylvania tolerated all religions, as did (I think) the Catholic colony of Maryland. Fortunately, the Middle Colonies had a greater influence on the philosophy of the founding documents than New England did.

  • Ugh. Please forgive me for just quoting and linking to myself but everything I think and feel watching this guy I already laid out in my blog post, American Values vs. Fundamentalist Values and I feel so strongly like expressing it all again in this context:

    For this post, I will put aside the serious questions about whether or to what extent Christianity is historically to credit for actually contributing to modern American ideals, and whether or to what extent Christianity merely accommodated and learned to adapt to Enlightenment values which the whole way it has fought against. I want to focus here instead on what kinds of values self-consciously political, self-consciously literalistic and supernaturalistic, fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity actually leads to in the present and ask whether they are even consistent with truly American values–let alone their only logical support.1. The values of science and innovation.American prosperity cannot be separated from our rigorous empiricism, pragmatism, open-mindedness, hunger for newness, disdain for obsolete and stifling traditions, disdain for authoritarianism, and desire to transform the future into something different and better through human ingenuity. All these values are why we are a scientific and technological leader.And none of these values would be presently waning if it were not for the influence of fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity, which explicitly and actively teaches people (1) to eschew empiricism whenever it undermines faith; (2) to fear pragmatism and prefer moral, economic, and spiritual absolutism instead; (3) to fret that open-mindedness is the path to destruction while closed-minded adherence to ancient texts and dogmas are the path to national salvation; (4) to spurn the new as heresy and denounce the ideal of a transformed future as a desire to betray a golden past; (5) to slavishly obey obsolete traditions; and (6) to celebrate and promote authoritarian domination of prisoners, the “lazy” poor, and foreigners around the globe.2. The values of equality and human rights. No group actively resists the full moral and political equality of women, gays, minorities, immigrants, prisoners, or the poor more than the fundamentalists. This is true worldwide and true in America. Right-wing fundamentalist Evangelical Christians really want us to think that their tradition, which still only rarely (if ever) allows women in pulpits is uniquely indispensable to women being in politics?They really want us to think that a tradition which demonizes the poor as lazy and unworthy of a guarantee of the basic provisions of health care is uniquely indispensable to our valuing the full human rights of all people? They really expect us to believe that without their reading of the Bible, we would not believe in the full and equal treatment of vulnerable groups before the law, when they are the ones who refuse to acknowledge the full humanity of gays or to give them the full equal rights of citizenship (to marry, to serve in the military, to work without fear of being prejudicially fired, etc.)?They expect us to believe that their values are the ones to guide us towards a greater appreciation of equality and human rights when their seething craving for vengeance leads them to support torture more than any other group in the country and to support ever tougher treatment of (unconscionably disproportionately black) prisoners when we already compete with only communist countries and Middle Eastern theocracies for the title of “most likely to incarcerate or kill its own citizens”?3. The values of freedom in thought, expression, and religion. Of course the religious political tradition which believes that laws should be made through considerations of what the book of Leviticus says is our only hope for deriving and preserving the value priority of protecting freedom of religion and freedom of conscience.Of course the people who want the government to subsidize charity operations which proselytize their patrons, who insist on governmental calls for prayer, who relentlessly turn civic ceremonies into religious ones whenever permitted on stage, who talk about their God’s “dominion” over all of life including government, who try to defund public broadcasters and artists who do not share their narrow values, who demonize other faiths and try to get their houses of worship shut down, who panic with outraged offense whenever an atheist billboard announces the mere existence of, or reasons for, disbelief, etc.–these are the only people we can really trust to protect the individual’s conscience from governmental coercion in matters of private belief and the freedom of expression.4. The values of democracy and individual autonomy. Logically, how could we ever believe in rule only by the consent of the governed, unless we believed the whole universe was a cosmic tyranny in which an all-powerful being imposed His unstoppable will on all people without respect for their own wills and damned to eternal torment all those who dissented from His judgments and refused to love Him?How could we believe in the rights, dignity, and autonomy of all individuals if we did not believe in a God who could punish them for thought crimes, and for not loving Him, and for pursuing their own individual conceptions of the good inconsistent with His barbaric, archaic Old (and New) Testament commandments?How else could we either logically derive, or in the future pass on, our belief that the most just form of government is a democratic republic with a separation of powers, if we did not believe that the universe itself is actually most justly run as a theocracy?These views are clearly of an unbreakable piece.Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian theology, values, and political behaviors could hardly be less consistent with the distinctive American values which are most celebrated as the source of American prosperity–let alone be claimed to be their logically necessary precondition. There is little logical connection between closed-minded, fundamentalist, reactionary, authoritarian, hierarchical, superstitious, theocratic nostalgia and America’s open-minded, idealistic, progressive, liberty-loving, egalitarian, scientific, democratic optimism.The claim that contemporary fundamentalist Evangelical Christian values are the irreplaceable logical basis for either deriving or developing America’s highest values is a total and complete lie. Even to the extent that historically Christianity in general sometimes played a positive role in the centuries-long process by which we came to have and to develop these values in the West, still the core distinctive values of reactionary fundamentalism in the present represent a counter-reaction against liberal, Western, American values–however we got them. They are not conservatives, in the true sense of the world. They do not want to conserve distinctively American values. They are restorationists who want to reimpose a theocratic order while giving disingenuous lip service to the reigning ideals of America.

  • Casey Braden

    I find his comment about the military “officially approving” satanism and witchcraft.  The Department of Defense does not officially recognize ANY religion, since that would constitute government endorsement of certain religions but not others.  What he probably means is that certain bases are allowing these groups to officially meet there.  It is an important distinction to make, though.

  • Tinker

    Add me to the list, while I was a Christian I thought the worst thing that could happen would be for government to get into the Church’s business. Now it seems that they don’t see the danger.

  • hoverFrog

    Comedy gold.  Why aren’t the audience laughing?  I thought it was hilarious.

  • AxeGrrl

    He was reflecting on the sacrifices our soldiers made on D-Day, which happened 68 years ago tomorrow, when he thought it was a perfect moment to call out the atheists.

    Too bad that none of the atheist soldiers who fought on D-Day were there to call him out on his hateful, ignorant bullshit.

  • Jdru999

    This nation was not founded by the Christian religion, look up the treaty of tripoli for evidence. Secondly our founding fathers were not Christian, they were deists.

  •  Airlock is used to get rid of bad things 🙂

  •  The Shroud of Turinis a fake made in the middle ages

  • Glasofruix

    Hey, how about those sources on gay suicides?

  • Kevin Otte

    “President Obama recently has told the foreign media that America is not a Christian nation.  You’re absolutely wrong.”

    So the Pastor just called the President of the United States a liar. I dare him to do that to his face.

    Can we go back to ignoring these blathering simpletons and focusing on the positive contributions we atheists are making to society?

  • Mr Nobody

    wait, according to what he says… shouldnt america be a deist nation? 

  • LutherW

     Reminds me of when a union rag called company management ‘communists’. Obviously they were the opposite, but communism was a bad word.

  • Yeah, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Rhode Island were all tolerant of all religions.  At which point Puritans moved in, took control, and voted the religious toleration away.  Sound familiar?

  • Sware

    Is it just me or did anyone else get repeatedly told this phrase?  “Do what you want.  It’s a free country.”  So which is it, free or Christian?  It cannot be both.  I’d really like this question posed to all political candidates from now on.

  • I love you. LOL Great post!

  • I need to give Mr. Hagee a call to see if he can give me and my husband around 100k dollars so that we could move elsewhere and start a “god free” new life. I’m sure it’s less than what they save by not paying taxes every year anyway.

  • Michael

    The shroud of Turin wasn’t made, it’s just a remarkably clear example of a perfectly normal phenomenon which occurs when a body is wrapped right after death. The body continues to generate heat after its cooling mechanisms have ceased so it heats up. The only fakery was to claim it must have been Jesus because it was a face.

  • Hansono5

    Jesus is historically proven to have existed, I would keep your ignorant comments to things you know about…like hypocrytical christians. Jesus claimed to be God and if you read his teachings you would know that comments like the ones offered by this pastor are contrary to Jesus teachings.

  • Hansono5

    Hey, I am a christian and honestly I agree with most of your comments, this guys is an idiot for saying these things.  What bothers me about your comments though, is the attacking of Christ, when it is obvious to anyone who actually knows Christs teachings that  this pastors comments are contrary to the teachings of Jesus. Most of you are athiests or claim to be, but in reality you don’t really know what you are talking about when it comes to spiritual things. You think  you know, but you don’t know for sure.  I would keep your criticism where it belongs…on those who claim to be followers of Jesus but don’t follow his teachings.  Keep up the good work!

  • The issue here is that many powerful, influential Christians who hate and oppress have succeeded in re-branding Christianity into something hateful and oppressive, especially in the eyes of the groups oppressed (atheists, gays, women, the list goes on). You can’t really blame people for being upset with a group that’s hurt them. In my opinion, loving, kind Christians who behave like Christ should be louder and more noticeable, to try and reclaim the brand from the bad guys. At the very least it will be a reminder that some Christians are good people.

  • Hansono5

    Hi Chris, I  agree, and i don’t blame them.  When Jesus walked the earth he didn’t hang out with the “religious” people, he was a homeless person, basically, who identified  with those who were rejected by the religious establishment of the day.  The Christians who do follow the teachings of Christ do need to be more vocal, being a true folower of Christ is actually a radical anti-establishment way to live (the narrow road) and only a few live it.    

  • A lot of modern scholars do believe he existed, but there is no irrefutable historical proof.  You were saying something about ignorant comments?

  • CultOfReason

    The U.S. was not intended by its founders to be a Christian nation It was intended as a secular nation that is accepting of all faiths (or none at all).  Anyone that says otherwise either has a very poor grasp of our history, or is outright lying.

  • Hansono5

    Hi Jessica,  If you don’t believe in God, then to you he is just an idea. Nothing. It is easy to attack the Idea of “God” , it can be kinda vague.  Jesus claimed to be God in the flesh.  Question for you: What teachings of Christ would you say you find the most offensive? There are many who claim to be christians but don’t follow Christs teachings. The second greatest commandment, “Love your neighbor as yourself”, would that include an athiest or a gay person…yes it would. Many who call themselves christians bring great shame on the christian faith.  Why mock God (even if you don’t believe in him) because he says a few things you don’t agree with.  Would you respect a deity if you could control him? Most times christians deserve the verbal abuse they recieve, I would stick to what you know.

  • T-Rex

    Fuck religion. That is all.

  • T-Rex

    please cite said proof or kindly STFU.

  • T-Rex

    Ever heard the song “Onward Xian Soldier”? Why do you think our armed forces have so many fundies in the ranks?

  • Michael Appleman

    My evil genius side hopes this type of thing continues to get worse until there is a massive and resounding backlash.

  • Leon

    No, the Shroud of Turin is a known forgery.  The dimensions on it aren’t proportional to a known human body (the head is much too small for the body), which was a common practice done in medieval art to make a central figure look important.  Also the stains don’t match what would have been imprinted by a deceased person placed in the shawl.  See

  • Mr nobody

    Roman execution records, there was a man named Jesus, and he was a Jewish preacher, he had followers that wrote some of what he said,his father? Miracles? No info on them.

  • Michael

    Your link indicates that this person would have to be deformed to leave these marks on a shroud, which would explain why he was shrouded with such haste. Deformed people are everywhere, it’s not proof of fakery, just that this is the earliest example of Jesus-in-a-potato-chip.

  • Hansono5, Can you explain the “Jekyll & Hyde” personality attributed to Christ by many Christians? It is said that when He walked the earth in His fleshy existence, that He was loving, tolerant, and hung out with those whom society considered outcasts at the time. It is also said, though, that after you die, if you have not repented and accepted Him as your Lord and Savior, that you will be kept in a perpetual state of separateness (or even torture). Why the big change in how Jesus treats people from when before they die to after they die?

    It seems that Hagee is merely trying to emulate how Jesus will treat people after they die. In his mind, he is being a true Christ follower.

  • Mr Nobody

    I’m not Jessica, but in my opinion the most troublesome of his teaching is that if you don’t accept to follow his rules you will burn and get tortured for eternity. Why do we mock good? Each and every person cause of his own reasons, my main one is bitterness of the years I’ve thought something greater than me was working non stop to eliminate suffering in the world, and also people like Hagee here, religion doesn’t make everyone a hate preaching fanatic, but lately we see more and more of them that actually succeed in their attempts to affect the legal system and thus force their beliefs on other people, and naturally, we fear it. Sadly we have almost no political power so we do the only thing we can, say what we think.
    You assume we see god as a machine that doesn’t function like we want, that is not how I see it, let’s take the grand architect analogue, we’ve found many huge faults that can lead us to conclude 3 things if we would still believe in his existence, A:the architect has little or maybe no power at all, and thus cannot control the way it’s creation acts and/affect it in any way. B: the architect cannot view the little details of his creation or maybe he can’t view the whole thing, thus once again, he won’t affect it in any way. C: the one that fills me with the most disgust, that the architect is both aware and able to change his creation for the better and yet he does not do it. In my opinion neither of those versions should be taken as rule models, and unless detailed observation of one/more of them will be found, there’s no need to believe such terrible things exist, I did not write this to convert you to atheism, your belief is your own choice, but I want you to understand why I have the attitude you’re criticizing, I don’t represent Jessica, nor anybody else who doesn’t say I represent him, from the few comments I’ve read from you you seem like a nice person and I’m glad you showed me good religious people still exist.

  • BrentSTL

    I have two words for you, Johnny boy…

    MAKE ME!!

  • Robyman44

    When I get a chance to argue with a Christian, I like to open with the statement that, according to (most of) them, humans were supernaturally formed out of the dust of the earth (literally) and a single piece of bone from a man (literally), but the advancement of life through natural processes taking billions of years could not possibly make the slightest bit of sense in any way, shape or form. Obviously sarcasm isn’t the best way to get people to listen to you, but then I tell them that it is okay to question things you are told. So, if and when the scientific community proves things to be true and so much more comprehensible than some ancient Hebrew text’s “explanation” of our origins, then the first pages of the Christian’s holy book are exposed as fraudulent and hardly any of its subsequent content can stand up to scrutiny either. People are of course scared to death to face this particular situation, so what do they do? They stand in their pulpits and shout idiotic BS to the masses like Hagee does.  He must have actually thought some of us non-believers would listen to him and fly out, never to return. DELUSIONAL – surprising, huh? Well, I’m not going anywhere. I don’t take the first swing in a fight but I really would love it if someone like him thought he could physically force me to get out of this great “Christian nation” because I don’t belong or deserve a place in this country. I swear I wouldn’t hesitate to rough him up. Some people really do just need an a$$-kicking to be silenced.

  • Great IAM

    Sure jesus existed just the same as Hercules and all the rest.

  • Tom_Nightingale

    Well someone made up the Bible, right?  So obviously someone had the dichotomy beforehand

  • Stev84

    Rhode Island was founded by people who fled from the Puritans.

    There were also colonies that were purely commercial endeavors. At least at the beginning.

  • Stev84

    Education? Lol. Christian kindergarten, following by Christian high school, complemented by Sunday school, followed by Christian university (for some).

  • Stev84

    The whole idea of vicarious redemption is incredibly sick and immoral. I refuse to allow someone else to be tortured and executed on my behalf.

    Another sick Christian belief that was introduced by Jesus is the concept of hell. Why should I be tortured for eternity for rejecting a human sacrifice that I didn’t even have a say in?

  • Leon

    Did you read the article?  The shroud shows a figure who would be severely mentally handicapped.  The elbows are in a position that a corpse cannot hold (with hands folded over the crotch, gravity will pull your elbows down and hands away to your sides).  The hair falls down the sides of the head as if he were standing, not toward the back of the head as if he were lying.  And a face imprinted on cloth would look disproportionately wide when laid flat–the face in the shroud is drawn to look like a two-dimensional representation of a three-dimensional face: what you would see in a photograph, not a rubbing.  The shroud cannot be anything but what its provenance and the carbon dating show it to be–a medieval fraud.

  • Sam

    Given the multiple layers of bacon grease that glaze his pasty, pudgy face, his mouth is better practiced at eating that speaking coherently.

    Mr. Hagee, I hear your desert war god commands you to be a good steward of the Earth. If you take your charge seriously, you might want to back off on the noise pollution.

    Please procure for yourself a case of pinto beans, a small, poorly ventilated room, and asphyxiate on your own methane.   

  • matt

    The whole concept bugs me.  You mean to tell me that creator of the universe birthed himself into mankind and sacrificed himself to himself to forgive he could’ve just…maybe…forgiven?  I can’t accept that.  Plus a lot of symbolism in the bible seems to have been borrowed from a few previous myths before it.

  • matt

     forgive a sin – sorry

  • amycas

    Can you cite those execution records? Afaik, none existed.

  • solarsister

     Uh, Hanson, a LOT of us atheists were once Christians ourselves; some of us were even pretty devout (I, for example, was a dedicated believer and even graduated from a Christian college). So I’d lay off a little with the condescending “you just don’t know about spiritual things” crap.

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