A Christian Church Puts Up Billboard Apologizing to Gay People… But Is It Enough?

I am very interested in hearing about their replies. ‘Cause I want to be happy about this, but you make a good point about reserving judgment when one doesn’t have all the details.

The following link is a note on their Facebook page. Reading it, their theology supports same-sex relationships. I infer their answers to the above questions are (1) No and (2) Yes.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/our-hearts-are-with-you/the-bible-homosexuality-the-basics-of-our-theology-on-this-topic/360997147289304

 I never even thought to look that up, good on you man.  I was born and raised in rural NC (moved away 1 yr ago) I felt truly ashamed of my state when this passed.  Good to see some of the bible belt is letting out a notch. 🙂

You’re just guessing their views based on past experiences with other churches.  It’s not a new data point until there is new data.  Also, check out their facebook page:

The point of our apology, then, is to say, “we recognize that people have used the Name of God to defend their positions that deny you rights and deny you equality. We recognize that people who identify with the Christian Faith have told you that you are, in some respect, a second class citizen, a miserable sinner, a danger to society, and/or an abomination. But please hear us when we say that NOT ALL FOLLOWERS OF JESUS feel this way. Please believe that God, as we understand it, loves you and created you just as you are.

Not an unreasonable assumption though is it, and all they have to do to prove him wrong is to answer the email.

I just wrote a blog post on this topic: http://etratio.blogspot.com/2012/05/church-apologises-for-homophobic.html

I’m not sure why you would assume the answer to #2 is No when the whole point of the billboard seems to state the answer is Yes.

I wouldn´t call it a big assumption, considering christian churchs have a historical millenar tradition of gay people condemnation, and he actually asked them their position in this matter, just didn´t get an answer for the time being.
 I´d call it a justified assumption, logical based, that can be proved wrong anytime.

Anyone who puts here personal beliefs aside and votes for the rights of others to do things that they consider immoral, but that hurt no one should be commended. That they went further and apologized for others who did not do so is all the more commendable.

The text of the billboard makes it quite obvious that they are OK with homosexuality.  Hemant often calls out religious people, as should we all, for not publicly decrying the bad things done in their name.  This church has done that, and Hemant craps on them for it.  I don’t know what’s been going on in Hemant’s life, but for the past few months I’ve been feeling this site shouldn’t be called Friendly Atheist anymore.  

You’re not going to replace Hitchens, Hemant, you don’t have the temperament.  This post just makes you look petty.

”
There are gay-friendly Christian groups that go out of their way to hide the answers to those questions.”

There are also gay-friendly Christian groups that don’t believe that homosexuality is a sin and support same-sex marriage. They’re generally called “Gay-Affirming” or “LGBT-Affirming” churches, and include a number of mainline Protestant groups.

Notice that apologies are almost always thrown back in the face of the one apologizing?

No apology is ever enough.

Atheists want believers wiped off the face of the earth, no doubt about it.

Of course you will all deny it, but you know good and well that you want religion to end and you believe you are all intellectually and morally superior.

In fact, as moral relativists, you are dengerates who have runs some of the most perverse governments in the history of mankind.

I really believe that if atheists get control, they will kill me.

Hemant, they call themselves an emerging church.  Emerging churches generally don’t believe in hell, so it seems reasonable to assume (unless they state otherwise – I’ve no issues with asking the question) that they would NOT think homosexuals go to hell.  They also try hard to avoid doctrinal statements in general as a matter of principle (“It’s all about a relationship with Jesus”) so the lack of clarification on their website isn’t surprising to me.

I will clarify – sometimes emerging churches will talk about hell as being real, but in a “there’s hell on earth” sort of way.  It isn’t the Dante version you are thinking of.

Maybe it’s just cynicism getting to me, but…Even if their answers to those questions ARE right, I still don’t see anything worth getting excited over. Okay, one church has apologized. We don’t know who they’re apologizing to, and even if they’re apologizing to gays…So what?

There are still people out there threatening to kill us, and even more out there advocating it. We’re still second-class citizens, and people, mainly of this church’s religion, are doing everything they can to keep it that way.

Pat this church on the back. They made a nice gesture. What does it change in the grand scheme of things?

Just in case the church does decide to respond and happens to check the comment section here before doing so, I’d like to apologize as an atheist for the stupid remarks by Hemant in this post.  As a community, most atheists value inquiry and I’m sure that many of us are as shocked as I am that Hemant would immediately jump to the conclusions that he did despite the utter lack of any evidence supporting them.

They will clearly get a lot of criticism from the right.  It would be nice if they didn’t get criticism from the left as well.

Thanks for showing up Ulyanov, it looked like peace was about to break out.

I think it is great that around 250 people in the Emerging movement in North Carolina have these progressive ideas. Now if only the rest of the Christians of North Carolina would get on board instead of actively or passively supporting “building an electrified fence around em who are for stuff we are again’ ” or voting to put their religious beliefs into law.

P.S.  I’m just guessing on the 250.  Perhaps it is a bit more or less.

What in the world do you expect from people? Surely one can’t expect people to change their views simply to suit others? And this, “Is an apology enough?” garbage must cease. Stop and check your own attitude before you post this as an article. Atheists DO NOT witchhunt, hound or harrass, ok? I myself am atheist and I’ll speak up to defend the rights of even the religious with whom I have near zero agreement. They apologized publicly…that isn’t enough for you?

Exactly, this whole vicarious apology business is entirely disingenuous and perhaps even insulting.

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I turned the ideas in my earlier comment into an email to the Missiongathering Christian Church:

I sincerely commend you on your billboard in North Carolina
apologizing for the denial of people’s rights done in the name of God. I’m
certain that taking such a stand took courage and integrity. Thank you.

 

Please forgive me for
asking for more.

 

An apology is a very good start, but it is only a start. If
that is as far as you go, then it will simply be filed away with the other
empty gestures that several churches and individual Christians have done,
basically to soothe their embarrassment at being associated with oppressive,
retrogressive bigots. If it does nothing more than to take care of your own
feelings, it is essentially a selfish act.

 

Your public apology on behalf of other Christians is taking
a public stand. That is wonderful. Now please don’t just stand there with your
stand. Go somewhere with it. Bring about actual change.

 

What real world actions are you taking to oppose
the denial of rights for which you are apologizing?

 

What real world actions are you taking to repeal
Amendment 1?

 

What real world actions are you taking to directly
confront those churches and Christians who, in your opinion, are misusing the
Word of God, and to convince them to change their minds and their actions?

 

I do these things. I put time, work and money into these
things. I write articles and letters, I talk to people face-to-face, I march in
demonstrations, and I donate quite a lot of money to groups that fight such
oppression. But I am only one person, and my efforts come from the point of
view of being an atheist and a humanist. Because of that, most of the
Christians to whom I’m appealing immediately dismiss my arguments out of hand. However,
I won’t give up.

 

You as Christians have much more clout with the Christians about
whom you’re apologizing. Being in a position of greater influence brings with
it greater responsibility. Please follow through with your public stand and take
real world actions to bring about real world change.  Again, I thank you for your courage and integrity. Keep
going!

 

With respect and gratitude,

Richard Wade</blockquote

 

I think Hemant Mehta is asking the right questions. Thats what we skeptics do, right? 

I don’t think its because of what Mehta has “heard” Christians have done either, you just have to read the Bible and come to that summation (let’s not even talk about the rash of videos that have come out by Evangelicals who are calling for the genocide of people who don’t think or act like they do). 

And that’s the problem with it all. Many of us left these institutions because when we challenged their doctrine we were run out instead of allowed to explore and stretch the boundaries of that dogma. 

Let’s be real, most churches are losing membership. Sure, there are quite few megachurches with large numbers but the average church has a problem filling their pews. Unfortunately the church, like most old and large institutions, are slow to change. 
I see their numbers continue to dwindle because of this slow change. 

Should this church be commended for their billboards? Should I be commended for paying child support? 

“We just want you to know, not all Christians are like that.” Basically. 

I agree. 

 Wow, not all christians are theocratic bigoted sociopathic traitors with a fetish for torture!  Not exactly news.  And the fact that it needs pointing out doesn’t say good things for the reputation of christianity.  Now, if they could do something about the christians who ARE theocratic bigoted sociopathic traitors with a fetish for torture, that might be useful. 

I can’t find the answers to either of those questions on their website and I suspect the answers are “Yes” and “No” — in that order. If that’s the case, is this church really worth praising?

I’m going to respond with a strong, “Yes!” You seem unprepared to accept anything less than the church adopting full “atheist morality”, even though you would be hard pressed to find any two atheist who can agree on what that means. The church has publically extended support to the cause of marriage equality. That’s more than nothing. In fact it’s everything that we have any right to ask of them. By publically apologising for Amendment 1, they are giving their full support to secular marriage equality. Let’s take a hypothetical situation where that church does privately oppose homosexuality despite this public show of support; that would make their stand even greater. If a church is prepared to take a stand for the separation of church and state, should we repay them by breaching that same barrier ourselves by trying to push our morality into their church?

I’m aware this is something of a moot point given the church’s response, however I believe it is still worth arguing this point.

 I think Hemant Mehta is asking the right questions. Thats what we skeptics do, right?
The questions are fine. The guilty until proven innocent, less so.

Should this church be commended for their billboards? Should I be commended for paying child support?
No, but you should be commended if you pay your deadbeat cousin’s child support. There’s nothing to suggest that this church had anything to do with Amendment 1 and every reason to believe they didn’t. It’s not fair to blame them for actions they took no part in.

I agree that Christians need to apologize to the gay and lesbian community for how the church has treated these people as a whole. I believe these people are entitled to their equal rights just like everyone else. But, that does not mean that the church has to sit back and just accept gay and lesbian behaviour as being right just because society says its ok. Their behaviour is sinful and it always will be. Anybody with half a brain in their head who reads the Bible can figure that out.