Atheist Valedictorian in Texas Forces High School to Remove Graduation Prayers

Young people like Reyes give me hope for the future.

The students themselves have the right to talk about what they want as long as the school or it’s teachers don’t enforce what was said. There does seem to be a disagreement around this idea, but it seems to be legal.

Wait, so they’re changing “Invocation” to “Opening Remarks” and “Benediction” to “Closing Remarks”.  The actual content of each may (and probably will) remain the same.  In fact, I’d expect other speakers to get morereligious this year.

I bet if the school had just decided to change the program without saying anything about it, nobody would have noticed.

Well done young man…

Reyes added: “I know it’s tradition, but tradition isn’t always right.”

Actually, tradition is nothing more than institutionalized ignorance.

No sir. The thing is, you do not do because it is tradition. You do it because you enjoy it. You have good reasons to go to the restaurant. Tradition is doing something today simply because someone did it yesterday.

Awesome strength in that young man! He rocks. Yes, individual expression is one thing, but an out loud prayer usually covers everyone. Or so that’s what they praying person wants. That goes way beyond expression. 

Groovy, great job. And, take care.

I want to put something else into perspective about this. Poteet is less than an hour from Castroville, TX. Castroville is the town that last year decided to have the prayer despite complaints and when an “activist judge” issued an injunction (which was successfully appealed) Newt Gingrich went all gnome poop crazy over it. As a member of the Greater San Antonio community and an atheist, this story makes me happy. 

Congrats to Mark.  Great story, but it will be more hopeful when  school officials respond by saying we removed the prayer because it was the right thing to do… instead of  ‘we want to avoid a lawsuit’.

Turkey curry?

 Yes, for connecting a dinner day with religious crap you are ignorant.

as an atheist, kids like this annoy me. why cant they just ohhhh, i dont know ADHERE TO THE FIRST AMENDMENT?!?! it is their right to pray to whatever invisible fairies they choose. i stand for evolution and dont wish to be forced to adopt any religion but it would be wrong to stop others from praying.

Nobody is trying to stop anyone from free expression of religion. They are trying to stop some people from  treating a public school graduation ceremony– which by its very nature is supposed to be inclusive– like it’s a particular brand of church, just because a majority of students happen to belong to that church, and in the process, excluding all students who don’t follow that religion.

Public, state sponsored ceremonies should not be platforms for showing preferential treatment to one specific set of religious beliefs. 

When the prayer is at a school function, backed by school time, money, and resources, it is a violation of the 1st Amendment. Kudos to him, shame on you.

Shocked that the school isn’t going to waste taxpayer’s money to fight this.  Flabbergasted that the other students and their parents haven’t strung this kid up yet or threatened his family. 

You are incorrect.  On other days of the year we enjoy visiting other restaurants in the area and frequently try new ones, and the local Indian place remains one of the best restaurants in the entire city.

You are partially correct — we do it because we enjoy it, but it is still a tradition even if we don’t do it because it’s a tradition.

They have actually made turkey curry on Thanksgiving day, and it was pretty good, although I am more partial to the goat.

This is a great step in the right direction! I hope other Atheist youth take his lead and step forward to keeping the religion out of schools and just in the Church.  I hope the so called Christians can respect his opinion and keep their mouths shut for a change and let this bright young man have his moment.  Well done..you give me hope for our younger generation!

He just wants separation of church and state, and he’s used his moment in the spotlight to draw attention to the issue. There’s no immaturity or cockiness. He takes one little step in the direction of fighting for freedom & equality, and you suggest he thinks he’s infallible… that is some wacky reasoning you used there. He could be the most humble, openminded guy on Earth for all you know!

I live in San Antonio.  What disturbs me most about the report is the need for “extra security” for the student.  Whenever anything like this happens, but esp. in the South, there is harassment and even death threats.  It sickens me.  Reyes is diplomatic in his comments, has no problem with the free speech of the other students, yet his call to enforce the law is met with derision.

i think the entire class of 150 students should decide what they want in their graduation ceremony and if someone does not like what the majority of his/her fellow classmates want or dont want,. they can to ask their diploma be  given to them in a private ceremony.  Why ruin the day for the other graduates based on what one person wants or doesnt want.

If you live in San Antonio (as I do!), you should know that Holmes HS in Northside has shut down an SSA that tried to start

“M’sieur, is yer currie ‘ot eneuff?” 🙂

those ancient superstitions could be the downfall of modern man . . . think again!

Because it’s explicitly counter to the First Amendment (due in part to the Fourteenth Amendment)? We don’t vote on rights.

Because hey, why should the law get in the way of what people believe?

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…

Can we make the Ahlquist scholarship an annual thing, and nominate Reyes?  He might not win, but he’d certainly be in the running!

Because baseless threats work so well on people with functioning critical thinking skills?

You’re pissing into the wind.

 Especially being right in the heart of the bible belt.  I expected to read more about hate or threats or attacks, not just his success in removing the prayers.

I see you state its the law – can you tell me what that law is? as in the legal code? Oh there are lots of cases and lots of money spent and many who back down for lack of money to defend or even ignorance as to their rightd. – could you please tell me under what legal code? thanks

well I do not agree to the staement entirely but I agree to your logic it is their right or yours not to – I thnk this staement is accurate for the most part.

Well sadly they do keep allot of religious things out of public education or
institutions but that only pushes allot of ignorance or part truths or total
untruths. Most of the history of the world even current today you need to know
about religion to understand it. It should be taught at all schools &
originally for the most part it was. For instance you may never learn if they
total removed religion that When Congress was 1st formed – every session was
opened with not only a prayer but a sermon on the topics they would be
undertaking in that session – no the preacher did not tell them to make a
decision this way or that way he only laid out the Bibles directions on the
topic sort of like Guidelines from Gods word. You may not even know that the 1st
time America was attacked after we gained our Independence was from an Islamist
nation based on religion – I wont tell you the story – look it up great time for
learning.

.wow keep their mouths shut – unfortunately they have done this all too often
in the public square I only hope in the private square they at least opened
their mouths to Pray. And unfortunately they have kept allot out of public
schools based on ignorance and fear but in so doing have cheated many out of a
truthful education. I do not think a public school should teach someone to be a
Christian, a Buddhist, a follower of Islam or anything of that nature – that is
for the Church’s or places of worship to do. But they should definitely teach
them about religion – every major thing and many minor events in the history of
mankind are intertwined by religion – its hard too see or understand the truth
if you remove thus truth. Even our nations founding fathers sought wisdom from
God to help them in making decisions – when our founding documents were being
put together – when they hit a block so to speak – do you know what the founding
fathers did – they took a break do you know what they did on that break? look it
up its very retaliative to this conversation. And may not be taught in many
public schools so most may not know

You state he “wants separation of church and state” can you tell me what you
think that means? Can you tell me what it is based on? The founding fathers
wanted to keep the government out of Church IE as in most European countries
they had just come from where the Government may set an official religion and
that’s what you were suppose to follow. But they did not want to Keep religious
belief, wisdom or traits out of government. In fact as they made up our founding
documents and discussed our countries founding ideas – they always opened in
prayer and often took a break to pray again when they hit hard spots. Many of
them were pastors or prominent in institutions of Faith. For instance do you
know what George Washington did as he was on one side of the river and the
largest naval fleet in the world and army at that time was on the other side to
stomp out our Independence – he prayed not only did he pray and openly looking
up but he made a covenant with God and begged all those who could hear him to
make the same covenant with God – that we would be one nation under God – not
the type of stuff they teach in public schools as they fear complaints about
religion but look it up we still have documents and writings from that time that
show our true history not the way it has been half truths or lied about in
public schools by those with an agenda.

I can agree with your stance on this as stated – I personally would pray – I
always do and I have prayed today for many on this board and at that school
among other things but I would never force you to do it(take your right not to)
but I would never give up my right for it as well.

your statement is getting closer to the truth – but dig deeper.

what do you base this on? what is unconstitutional? please explain your view better.

I’d have to say I really don’t like what’s occurred at this school. I see nothing wrong with them(the school) adding a religious aspect to the graduation ceremony. I’m not a religious person but this just really annoyed me.

His success was being right and standing up for his rights as delineated in the U. S. Constitution.  I will reason for you and your condescending mentality.

I’ll find $60,000 laying around 🙂

I agree that different religions should be taught, it is important to understand how different people think. The problem comes when a school picks a single religion and promotes it. That goes completely against the constitution.

And remember god is mentioned exactly zero times in the constitution. Religion is mentioned twice, in article 6 “no religious Test shall ever be
required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United
States” and the first amendment “Amendment 1
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

It seems pretty clear that the USA was founded as a secular country where no religion should be given precedence over any other belief system.

 Thank you for posting this reply. I used to teach at a charter school, and when I was going through a training seminar with other new hires, we were told of these regulations, and many teachers were resentful that they could not display their crosses and bibles. Follow-up questions ensued, at which point the trainer told us that it didn’t mean a teach couldn’t wear a crucifix if it was reasonably small (i.e., not “in your face”), but I could hear some of my colleagues already trying to figure out where there might be loopholes to exploit. I taught in 2001, and the day after the 9/11 attacks, I asked my students (8th graders) to write their questions and concerns about what happened, and one student wrote a poem that the class and I felt summed up what we were feeling. I offered to make copies for everyone, and left my room to retrieve the copies from the printer down the hall. When I got back, everyone was sitting in a circle holding hands and praying. I’m an agnostic, but I understood that this was something they needed, so I didn’t interrupt and gave them the minute or two they needed to come together spiritually. I didn’t mention it to anyone, but someone must have, because a few days later, a teacher came up to me and congratulated me for what she apparently thought I’d instigated. If it weren’t for the regulations you mention above, I can only wonder what public schools would be like for non-Christians.

If you want god, go study at a church or private school, you’ll get all the god you need there

You realize that threatening an atheist with hell is about as pointless as a hippy threatening to punch you in your aura.

Ccan you tell me what part it violates? —
Happily! ^-^

The Constitution is the highest law of the land, yes? All “sub-Governments” (for lack of a better term), such as State, County, City, etc., must follow it’s precepts. I think we agree on that much.
By leading prayer at a school function, the faculty and school are, in effect, saying, “As a school, we pray to this God.” This becomes especially true during events when attendance is either mandatory (assemblies and the like) or ceremonial (graduation). If a moment of silence is granted, wherein each individual is given an opportunity to reflect and/or pray, then we have no problem. We, the students, parents, attendees, are not being forced to listen to a singular, sectarian appeal to a deity we may or may not believe in/worship.
The problem lies not in the student’s ability to pray (that has been protected both in law and in Supreme Court case history) in a like-minded group or individually (provided no disruption occurs), but in occurrences when it appears that the school, as a representative of government, adopts not only a single religion, but potentially a single viewpoint (i.e. – Catholic/Baptist/etc.) from said religion, we come to a violation of the 1st Amendment: “establishment”. As an entity “established” via law (the bill to pay for a school), and paid for by government (taxes), the school is an agent of the government, and thus must obey all the rules of that government. Like the Constitution. That is the “establishment of religion.”
It’s amusing that your argument is: “It’s not a violation, but if it was, it wouldn’t matter because we’re the majority anyhow.”
You do see the problem inherent in that argument, don’t you? The entire point of the Bill of Rights is to protect the rights of the minority against the pressures of the majority. If every single person in this country wanted me to shut up (a feeling I’m sure Fred Phelps gets often), legally they couldn’t, despite being a majority. Because of the 1st Amendment. Thomas Jefferson said, “All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression.” (emphasis mine)

I don’t think I’m the one who needs to study up more on this subject, sir.

That argument hasn’t held water for years. Try again.

Obvious troll is obvious.

You state he “wants separation of church and state” can you tell me what you think that means? Can you tell me what it is based on? —
Yep. It’s based on two things: 1) Roger Williams, the Founder of Rhode Island, warned in his 1644 treatise, The Bloudy Tenet of Persecution, for Cause of Conscience,against opening “a gap in the hedge, or wall of separation, between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world”. 2) Keep in mind, that was 150 years before Thomas Jefferson used almost the exact same phrase, saying:
“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

The founding fathers wanted to keep the government out of Church IE as in most European countries they had just come from where the Government may set an official religion and that’s what you were suppose to follow. But they did not want to Keep religious belief, wisdom or traits out of government.
—
“We are teaching the world the great truth that Govts. do better without Kings & Nobles than with them. The meritwill be doubled by the other lesson that Religion flourishes in greater purity, without than with the aid of Govt.”- James Madison’s Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822 

Looks like President Madison felt the separation went both ways. 

John Leland, a close friend of both Madison and Jefferson  as well as an influential pastor in New England during the founding years, once said, “The notion of a Christian commonwealth should be exploded forever…The liberty I contend for is more than toleration. The very idea of toleration is despicable; it supposes that some have a pre-eminence above the rest to grant indulgence, whereas all should be equally free, Jews, Turks, Pagans and Christians.”

In fact as they made up our founding documents and discussed our countries founding ideas – they always opened in prayer and often took a break to pray again when they hit hard spots.
—
I have no doubt the Christians among them prayed during breaks, but I don’t think you can paint every one of the Founding Fathers with such a broad brush.

Many of them were pastors or prominent in institutions of Faith. For instance do you know what George Washington did as he was on one side of the river and the largest naval fleet in the world and army at that time was on the other side to stomp out our Independence – he prayed not only did he pray and openly looking up but he made a covenant with God and begged all those who could hear him to make the same covenant with God – that we would be one nation under God – not the type of stuff they teach in public schools as they fear complaints about religion but look it up we still have documents and writings from that time that show our true history not the way it has been half truths or lied about in public schools by those with an agenda.
—
I did look up that prayer, and after the 3rd page of Google, I found this, with zero supporting documentation, so for all I know it’s made up but here we go:
“Almighty God; We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy holy protection; that Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government; and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another and for their fellow citizens of the United States at large. And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without a humble imitation of whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”

I see no covenant, only asking for help. I see no “one nation, under God”, only “we want our own country where we can be nice to each other, please help.” A Covenant is an agreement. A “you give me this, I give you that.” I see no promises in return for favors here. What am I missing?Also, just because Washington was a Christian (and that’s debatable under today’s “rigorous standards”, he may have been some middle ground between Deist and Christian), doesn’t mean one thing about our government or it’s right to dictate our religious beliefs. Even Jefferson knew this:
““[E]very one must act according to the dictates of his own reason, and mine tells me that
civil powers alone have been given to the President of the U.S. and no authority to direct
the religious exercises of his constituents.”
 — Thomas Jefferson’s Letter to Rev. Samuel Miller, January 23, 1808
There be my sources. Where be yours?

See my long-winded arguments to “Guest.” I’m too lazy to type it out again, sorry. 🙂

But at the same time, the school cannot say,
“The student leading the ceremony may begin with thoughts or prayer before speaking.”
It’s akin to leading a witness. It must be accommodated, provided it is student initiated and not faculty encouraged.

 But we do vote on rights.  These amendments were passed by a vote of the people.  If you are saying that there are certain rights that override the vote of the people, then you are saying that there is a an objective morality and value of human rights that comes from beyond people and their individual desires. That source is God, just as our founding fathers wrote in the Declaration of Independence.   

 That is too broad of a statement. The only thing that the administration can’t do is be involved or influence.  It must allow the prayer to take place.

:facepalm: What we have here is a failure to communicate.

I quoted the declaration not as the legal source of those rights, but as evidence of where the founding fathers believed our rights originated from, and that was the almighty. These were the same rights that they instilled in the constitution. Particularly through the Bill of Rights.  It formed the cornerstone of the beliefs upon which our country was founded.

I wonder if any of these douchebags know that “separation of Church and State” is not in the Constitution. 

Are there no adults is this school or have we here a case of total capitulation to the whims of a child. Is there really a judge in Texas that would even hear this ridiculous complaint. Even if the Christphobes wanted to bring legal action.   

 I can’t believe how much of this page is taken up by people discussing whether going for a curry is a tradition of not. FFS, people, get a life!

Oh there are definitely 15/16 year olds graduating. My Salutatorian was.