Non-Muslim Lawyer Dons Abaya for 9-11 Trial

If this man is so sensitive to how females look etc.  why does he have a female lawyer representing him?  Surely that’s demeaning to him in his mind?

Response:

“…or what?”

I don’t see anything wrong per se with what she’s doing.  A defense lawyer should be using every trick they can think of to help their client.  That’s the way our justice system works.

On the other hand, I think it’s poor strategy.  Wearing an abaya and “asking for some consideration from the prosecution” seems likely to backfire.  She’s essentially othering her own client.  I can’t help but wonder if she’s trying to sabotage her client’s defense.  If so, she should be removed as his lawyer (I’m assuming she was court-appointed, in part because I don’t see these guys choosing a female lawyer).  After all, if these guys deserve a trial in the first place, then they deserve a lawyer who is actually on their side.

I think she’s kidding herself if she thinks this will help him. It certainly won’t help his image in court. And if he is really so offended by a woman’s hair and ankles, he is not going to care what she’s wearing because he will never get past the fact that his lawyer is a WOMAN. Personally, I wouldn’t want this woman as my lawyer. She has compromised herself to accomodate misogyny and bigotry, and has asked others to do the same. Not my idea of a strong defense.

Speaking as a law student, I actually have to defend her actions on the basis of: If her client instructed her to ask the court to do this, then it may have actually been a prudent choice. Sometimes your clients want you to plead some ridiculous things and sometimes you have to plead ridiculous things so your client will follow your advice on other things. They’re instructing you, so you can advise them not to do so but if push comes to shove, well, you’d rather have the client be more reasonable about more important issues. You CAN also withdraw from the case, but withdrawal is limited to very few circumstances and may not have been an option for this lawyer. If my client has the most ridiculous self-defence theory of the case, and he insists it is true, and he insists that I use it, I might think it’s totally ridiculous but I’d still have to use it because it would be prejudicial to his case if I withdrew (depending on how soon trial is) and I couldn’t necessarily cite solicitor-client conflict if he otherwise relied on me.

In short, none of us know what this lawyer discussed with her client prior to this request. I imagine she tried to advise him not to do so and was instructed to ask the court this anyway. Withdrawing over something of this nature wouldn’t have been allowed under my jurisdiction’s law society code of professional conduct, and I might have been sanctioned if I tried. I don’t imagine her situation is that different. At the end of the day, your client is allowed to make bad decisions.

 Or the lawyer is simply setting her first appeal into motion.

By making a clothing request for the prosecution, to avoid distraction on a cultural basis, which will be rejected, she will be able to file a legitimate sounding appeal at the end of the trial. Which will be used to delay the death penalty.

I believe this was done solely to give her client a few extra months/years before he is executed. Quite elegant, really.

Remember, if her client is guilty, this trial isn’t so much about getting him off, but to keep him alive for as long as possible.  So its all about building instances of oppression, incompetence, mishandles, etc that can then be used to extend her clients life after the verdict.

Agreed.  Part of an attorney’s duty is to advise and facilitate someone else’s moral choices, even if those choices aren’t necessarily wise.  If your client asks you to do this sort of thing, first you examine whether its ethical.  If it is, you inform him of the likely consequences at trial.  If he still wants to do it, you either do it or resign so that someone else can.

Stupid, childish tactic. No doubt there will be other women in the courtroom, how is this poor, easily distracted misogynist supposed to concentrate if they’re not all covered up too?

“slutty, slutty hair”,  I like that.  Ms Bormann is blonde.  Perhaps that makes it worse.

It isn’t just the Musilims who have the hair fixation.  St Paul said  “Now I want you to realise that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God,”,   “A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man…. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.”…  

I have to wonder how a faithful Muslim man could move to any non-muslim nation where he would  have to walk amongst millions of women who aren’t properly hidden behind yards of black fabric, thus exposing themselves to all that temptation to sin?
Whether he was here planning the 9/11 attack, or had come for other reasons, Walid bin Attash seems to have survived this massive assault on his senses and morality  during the time in he lived in the US before his trial.
Same with all the other muslimmen who immigrate to western countries, then want their women to wear the abaya or niqab. Their women folk are safe but the men are breaking the rules and risking their souls.

Perhaps a blindfold would help  …..

/end of thread    🙂

 I’ve been in dozens of courtrooms as a lawyer. In for the urban courtrooms I can’t think of a single judge  for whom ethnic or religious variations on standard clothing would be a problem as long as it was clear that the clothing was at an appropriate level of formality and was not intended disrespectfully.  For instance, I’m certain that no  urban/suburban judge that I’ve been before, with one possible exception, would object to a sari  on a woman or a Pakistani-style shalwar kameez on a man.  Head coverings can be an issue, certainly.  Some judges would certainly give a man in a turtleneck the side-eye.  But strict uniform for men or women lawyers. 

I’ve practiced in rural courts too.  No prediction as to what would happen, but that’s just because I’m not sure that the judges would recognize that the intent was respectful the way urban judges would.

I would think her actions and words would be harmful to her client.  It seems to imply he self-control issues if all the people around him have to alter their appearance and/or behavior to avoid provoking him. 

 In Germany lawyers, prosecutors, and judges wear robes in court, no horsehair wigs, though. For men the aditional rule is to wear a tie.

^^This. Most people don’t realize that every single objection is then used to build an appeals case. If the lawyer doesn’t make an objection, then they can’t use it in an appeals case.  So, if you feel your client has a weak case, just build up as many appeals suits as you can while the trial is on.

 I love walking right passed the conservative (insert religious student organization here) when they have a booth up in front of the student  library at school and I’m wearing a spaghetti strap shirt and shorts*.

*bonus points for looking “slutty” and having multiple visible tattoos (one is based off of a drawing of a phylogeny tree)

“I want him to be able to fully concentrate on the proceedings at hand without any kind of interference or loss of focus.”

Ritalin?