Are You Starting Facebook Flame Wars?

Oh, good grief…..  Being snarky about a family announcing a child had been confirmed or made his first communion on a Fecebook page comes under the general [and wise] admonition, oft cited here, of “don’t be a dick.”

Their kids and their religion are two subjects people don’t like snarky comments about, whether they deserve it depends on which is more important.

*unfriend*

If you’re going to post stupid crap on FB, you had better be ready for the snarky comments. I constantly poke at my religious FB friends. The dumbasses need it.

Mostly I’ll leave things alone – depends on my mood. Thankfully very few of my actual friends are much for religion. I have a distant cousin I was FB friends with for a while… the constant “god/jesus is great BS blessing-this blessing-that” drove me nuts. Therefore unfriend.

Couldn’t help myself though – saw someone had posted one of those jesus face in the clouds photoshop images that the christies like so much on my Girlfriend’s sister’s page. Just HAD to add a link to the the jesus-face-in-a-laundry-fold story from a few months back along with a snarky comment…

I tend to let the nonspecific religious comments go on Facebook. Everyone can believe what they want to, even if they’re wrong 😉

But I will speak up when someone posts something anti-factual, or something that attacks atheists. Just got into an argument with my uber-Christian cousin on Facebook earlier because he posted some idiotic preacher that equated atheism with nihilism.

My religious friends mostly filter so I don’t see any of it 🙂
I did have one distant (as in never met, only connection through FB) add me to his “Daily Blessings” group, with the promise that it was “inspirational, not religious”.  So after a week of bible quotes that were arguably non-denominational, I tested the waters by posting my own pretty bland “love everybody” bit from the Bhagavad Gita.  I think it was the “Lord Krishna” that set people off.  I got a flurry of “Every knee shall bend” crap, to which I ranted about how divisive religion is.  So of course I got warned, but not the “every knee” folks.  So I left.I’m still friends with him, but he mostly keeps his religious stuff out of it.

The only time I flame on religious or political status updates is when it says something blatantly false or presumptuous. 

I agree. Snarking on a family for making an innocuous comment seems like perpetuating the worst possible atheist stereotype. Many people have their children go through religious rituals.  I don’t think the mere mention of a baptism or bar mitzvah warrants going on the attack. And that’s coming from someone who sat horrified through two First Communion ceremonies. Seems to me that it would be wiser to save the snark for when religious people post hateful or misinformed comments about those outside their belief system.

I have enough enemies from simply being who and what I am, so I don’t see why I would want to take the initiative and put forth effort to deliberately turn a friend, a potential friend, or a neutral person into another enemy.

Yeah, I’m not going to start a flame war over a ‘positive’ event (baptism. wedding), but when someone starts going on about how anyone that doesn’t believe ‘A’ is going to burn, heck yes I snark.

Oh windkitty its ok,its just part of jesus plan to help heal your anger problem, big hug 4u………another big hug……starting to feel a little better….gooood

 Uh-huh. “Anger problem”. Of course, I’m not a Christian, I’m occasionally irritated or even angry about things, so I -must- have an anger problem.

Can’t be that I have good reasons to be upset…

I never post on someone else’s Facebook status, that to me is ignorant.  But I can’t tell you how many times they feel the urge to comment on my more playful statuses that poke fun at religion.  I then immediately attack, and I constantly warn people, if you don’t want to have an argument then get off MY Facebook page.  At that point I see it as fair game.

Rude, perhaps. Certainly not ignorant. In fact, the reason to post on somebody else’s Facebook post is usually due to THEIR ignorance. 😉

I used to reply with snark when family members thank Jesus for mundane fluffy bunny stuff. I find it’s just not worth it. Even though my intention is to add a little humor, the humor is rarely appreciated. My family has little sense of humor.

I had a Facebook account for about a week, before I got rid of it.  Too much drama. Don’t have time for it. Got better things to do.

“Also, how the hell does a pig type on a computer?”

Inefficiently.

(Ba-doom-tsh)

(see what I mean?)

I saw this happening yesterday to someone I used to work with.  She was upset over the Amendment 1 passing and said so on her wall. Then all her Christian “friends” began to (as you all are saying) flame her wall.  She came out to them that she doesn’t believe in gods and hasn’t for a long time. She went on to say their treatment of her support for gay marriage just proves her opinions of them. Then they began to harass and belittle her parenting skills. Saying she was not a good mother to her daughter because she was not teaching her about Jesus. I read through it all and told her to stand firm. She sent me a response that the people bashing her were her in-laws. Yikes. Her posts were well thought out and written. Her “friends” were the snarky ones. 
We live in NC so we are used to the religious bull. I sent her a link to this site. The only other atheist I know is my 19 year old son. I often feel like a little fish in an ocean of sharks. I’m glad I now know two.

Heck, make this about Abomination 1  down in NC right now and I’m that Pig. 🙂

Personally I thought http://xkcd.com/386/ was abit closer to the truth for me.

…amused, actually. So much anger spewed by people who claim that they are “good without God.”

…who is to say that what you are posting is equally false and presumptuous?

I agree I chose the wrong word there, rude fits that best.

Irrelevant considering I know how to use legitimate evidence to back up what I say.

Why couldn’t you just say, “It’s a lovely day to be an atheist…” without adding the “not needing to believe in fairies…” bit? Your friend expressed her thought without digging on anyone else. Your post is akin to her saying, “I’m grateful to Jesus for the lovely day, which I could never enjoy were I an atheist.”

Why not express your own true thoughts and let them stand on their own merits? Why is adding the dig the only way to be satisfied? Does criticism add gravity to your statement about enjoying the day?

Sounds like your friend is actually enjoying the day, and you’re enjoying being sarcastic. I would rather experience life as your friend does!

Seems like the more secure and at peace someone is with their beliefs, the easier it is for them to discuss them without getting irritated.

My mom’s name is Betty!  But she’s in GA and a devout Baptist.  I just wanted to say that I get the little fish in an ocean of sharks feeling.  I think it’s a deep South thing – where, and I certainly may be wrong, it is more traditional to go to church and the free-thinkers are the definite anomalies.  My non-religious job even prays together before meals and things, like it’s unheard of that one of the minions might not believe in their god or the same god.

Anecdotally, from what I’ve read, it’s Christians who tend to do this more often. I’ve read tons of stories of atheists posting some harmless secularism- or atheism-related story on their Facebook page, only to be flooded with offensive comments and questions from Christians. That then often leads to self-censorship because they want to avoid this pointless “debates” in the future.

You are awesome, and superior to others!

Facebook, where keyboard warriors go to fight. Gutless turds argue and flame over the internet.

“Suing communities to stop violating the Constitution.”

Fixed that for you.

wait, so getting that stuff from ONE person has you this pissed off? I thought you said, “you can only hear so many stories…” It was only one person, and the ONE peron who was doing that is now DEAD – and you’re still pissed off?? You’re nuts!

Using your children as bait when you go fishing for compliments is creepy and annoying.  Having a negative reaction to that is not a sign of an anger problem.

Lighten up, Francis. If you’re unhappy, why project that on others? People love to share photos of their kids. Don’t be so cynical. 

For me, living in Mississippi with many friends who are religious, it often is the opposite situation. I will put something on my page and then the crazies come out. For example, when I first came out as an atheist, I posted something that said, “Can’t wait to start writing this article about being a nonbeliever on a Christian campus. I’m a bit nervous.” Nothing offensive, etc. at all in that post. Then, my husband’s crazy uncle decided to reply with “Just make sure you include that Jesus shed his blood for you” or something like that. Needless to say, it turned into a huge debate and we no longer speak to his uncle or aunt (who posted a bunch of lies about me, not directly naming me, of course, on her own wall.)

So yeah. I never comment on someone’s status when I know it’ll start something. I have thought about it, of course. 

While I agree with your sentiment, your message does come off as a bit passive aggressive. Believe me, I know it’s annoying having friends thanking Jesus for absolutely no reason all the time, but either respond directly or not at all. 

 http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l561vpqUkW1qas2hto1_500.jpg

Sharon,

You must not spend much time reading posts in this community. My calling out that “Snarky comments, ranting and cursing against Christians, suing communities to stop their traditions, combing the news for anything negative that a Christian does… Nothing new here.” is entirely accurate. I’m not a dick for calling it out. I was responding to one person, and making the point that the behavior that HE was referring to is nothing new here. If I were mis-characterizing anything, then yes – I would feel a twinge of conscious, and I wouldn’t do it. I could fill a book with the hateful, curse filled, bigoted rants against Christianity, including comments about “wishing we were dead”, etc. It’s all in the blog archive, take a look!

No.  My “friends” are free to post as they like, as am I.  Now if they say something about one of my posts, it’s on!  

The majority of my facebook friends are religious and a few of them extremely so (old high school friends).  I was almost tempted one time when a “friend” was talking about not losing the weight like she wanted to with exercise so she was going to try something basically called The God Diet.  I think it’s diet through prayer or some absolute BS.  I had to walk away from the computer so I wouldn’t say something very cruel.

 “Wait, but isn’t “being a dick” the MO in this community? Snarky comments, ranting and cursing against Christians…”

We don’t hate the believers, we hate the beliefs. Feel better?

“suing communities to stop their traditions”

Slavery, witch burning, gay bashing, stone throwing, misogyny, faith healing, bible beating, finger pointing, science fearing, and alter boy loving.

” combing the news for anything negative that a Christian does.”

How else will we call attention to your traditions? I know you would rather sweep it under the rug, but since you are not doing anything about it…….  Nothing new here.

This, this is what really gets me about the, ‘you should only ever be nice’, brigade.

The self-righteous whine – which I always hear in Droopy’s voice – and rank hypocrisy that is intrinsic to berating someone because that someone berated or were snarky to some clueless comment they encountered on fb or elsewhere.  If you truly believe this mawkish kumbaya, let’s all just get along then you go enjoy the park, sunny day, whatever and quit your sanctimonius preaching.  You roll up here and start getting all censorious about how others choose to act then hey, guess what?  You’re the exact person you’re railing against, especially when you make condescending and sarcastic comments like, “You are awesome, and superior to others!”  Practice what you preach and zip it.

I am sick to the back teeth of these ‘shut up, that’s why’ arguments and positions of the faith folks and their doormat enablers from the non-belief aisle.  Religion in all its deleterious forms has the common property of sitting away up on that pedestal of untouchability.  It has created this absurd space wherein the faith folks get to say and do as they please, whenever and wherever, and never should anyone so much as say boo about it.  By regularly being placed beyond question this perpetuates the excessive hold religion has upon society, it gets a free ride from scrutiny and thus we end up with brain blistering travesties of oppression like that hate filled Amendment 1.  This is a privilige it does not deserve and should not have, and it is not going to go anywhere by being all meek and deferential toward it. 

The start to eroding the privilege is to push back against it even on the small stuff and that means treating thoughtless, praise jebus fb statuses or comments exactly as they deserve to be.  Bear in mind, I’m not talking about mentions of how proud a parent is about their child’s communion, that’s just an event, could easily have been a win at the spelling bee they’re prattling on about.  I’m talking about stuff like, “WITHOUT GOD… our week would be: Sinday, Mournday, Tearsday, Wasteday, Thirstday, Fightday, Shatterday, Seven days without God – Makes one Weak! (If you’re not ashamed of God, post this to your status.),” or, “God put me through everything because he wanted me to draw closer to him. I will pray very very hard for you. This makes me sick.”  The self important twaddle that gets trotted out on fb and a hundred ‘n’ one comment boards on the net.  For some bizarre reason it’s quite A OK for them to publicly thank Jebus but oh gosh darn it all, it’s just mean to do the same and note a lack of belief.  Why couldn’t the faith person have simply enjoyed the good day, why did Jebus have to get dropped into it?  Because in their small way they are proselytising to everyone else, look at me I believe in Jebus, he makes everything great and I’m telling you so you can also know how great he is.  But no, that’s fine, perfectly acceptable what’s beyond the pale is doing the exact same thing from a non-belief perspective.  Btw it is implicit in, “”I’m grateful to Jesus for the lovely day,” that a day’s loveliness is apparently as a result of JC’s magnanimous intercession and those who do not believe in said saviour are not being thankful and disrespectful of their saviour with all that entails.  It is a dig at all who have not accepted their saviour.

Here’s the thing, you can think and thank whomever the heck you like but post it anywhere, then you are sticking your hand up, you have chosen to proselytise your supernatural persuasions to all and therefore can take what comes.  If you want to share then expect to be shared with and just as folks may not care for what you’re sharing, you may not care for what they’re sharing back and that’s tough, it’s a two way street, don’t like it then don’t share, simple as.

Oh and I don’t need god to be good, nowhere in that is there any suggestion that I cannot be angry from time to time.

I think it depends on what you mean by horrified, but I find most church services horrifying, and First Communions especially so. You know there’s a whole wedding symbolism going on in those white communion dresses, right? How is it not horrifying to marry off your little daughter to zombie Jesus until she comes of age?

That’s the sort of time when I’ll comment. Say all the religious platitudes you want, but I don’t want hate coming through my Facebook feed and I’ll argue against it no matter who it offends.

Oh and I should clarify that I am not telling folks that any time they see something daft posted they should lay a smack down upon the perpetrator.  Just quit telling those who choose to not let it slide or take it lying down to remain silent.

Well, I don’t flame, but I have  been known to be the guy starting his comment with, “actually, that’s not true…..” or posting a link to Snopes or Science Based Medicine. Some people have even thanked me. But I choose my battles carefully.

That’s a lot of Atheist proselytizing! We disagree, abviously. Is that OK?

How does a pig type? Very well, thank you.

” combing the news for anything negative that a Christian does…” Do you really think anyone needs to comb the news for that?  Or does “combing the news” refer to simply turning it on?

” it’s a thousand times worse than when religious people try to fix things.”

What was a thousand times worse than Hitler, or Ghengis Khan, or todays  Joseph Kony  or the inquisition, or the quasi religious ideologies of  Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot.

Marella is free to say what he/she wants. Are you try to dictate what can and cannot be said on his own Wall? I dislike when people do that to me: I’ll post something they disagree with and they’ll comment that I shouldn’t post this, or why can’t I post about something else, etc. I tell them to hide my feed or un-friend me, but don’t dare to tell me what I can and cannot post.

Do you even know what proselytizing means? All he’s saying is that you can post what you want, he can post what he wants, my priest cousin can post what he wants about Communion, and my atheist cousin can post what he wants about Christianity being evil. Facebook, and sites like it, are free platforms. Don’t like what somebody is saying? Go and do something else? Feel like responding? That’s your right, too, because anything posted as public to friends (and even to strangers) is open for commenting. There is no reason why one cannot comment on another friend’s post. Should people think twice about hurting somebody’s feelings? Sure, but there are many, many different circumstances in which it might be worth causing somebody to get butt-hurt if what you have to say is something worth hearing/reading.

1.  Distorting reality isn’t a dick move?  

Birthing virgins and zombies?  Sounds like a giant dick move.  I think that’s the point your missing.  I don’t want people confusing my children with nonsense.

2.  Pff… No – that was the preachers job.  So, I guess you’re in favor of changing the Bubble – is it a “living document”?  No – it’s mythology and stone aged mythology at that

3.  Right – the Salem witch trials and the burning of heretics for suggesting things as blasphemous as a solar system (look it up but you’ll have to look somewhere other than the Bubble) or that slavery was, in fact, immoral and NOT ordained by your god.

Of course Marella is free to type whatever she wants on her wall. That’s not the point – the point is whether it’s a dick move or not in this one particular instance. I post atheist links all the time on my wall and I’m sure I’ve lost some friends in the process over it. I’m just saying in THIS one particular case in comes off passive-aggressive – if Marella wanted to reply to it, just do it on his/her friends wall directly. 

 Posting something on your facebook is like posting to a blog for the people you invite to read about you. So either don’t be friends with them, or hide their status updates, or don’t say anything, or say something. These are your options. Some people are quick to react and some people think it is better left alone. These are the options that are available, and if people get negative reactions to things they say out in the open, it is like they don’t want to have a conversation. In that way, you act like a person, you decide if you want to have this conversation or leave it alone, just like you would in real life face-to-face. Keeping in mind how many others may see your comment, how large the group is, who these people are to you, and sociably reach a conclusion whether you should or shouldn’t engage in the conversation. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

It’s not different than real life propriety just because it’s online. People do feel free to say what they are thinking, even if it’s bullshit, right out in the open, just like in real life. Just to say X about blessings from god, and just like in life, comments like that get a pass because I hear it all the time and people just politely keep quiet, if they are not the type to respond “amen” or high-five in agreement. This is our social conditioning, to let minor religious comments flood the environment freely, and then counter it, you’re attacking someone; or, make an atheist comment in the same vein, then you’re strident, or you’re attacking someone.

Like upthread someone mentioned, believers do not tend to hold back when you say something on your own wall that is atheistic. They don’t get to know what it feels like to get to say what you want any time and place you want to say it and get negative feedback because everyone doesn’t want to be the turd in their punchbowl. They have no filters of their own in that regard, they just turd it up. They have no experience being called out because nobody ever does. I keep out of it myself on facebook, for the most part my personal policy there is not to alienate everyone and just have a good time, no trouble, but “their own wall” is an entry to a conversation with others they have deemed worthy of friendship*, it’s not a diary where they can write anything they like.

*I still don’t understand why people friend people they don’t know and really don’t like (even though I have a few I don’t personally know), so it is a bit more public than a small group that one is used to addressing and expecting nothing but a positive response to everything. It’s for the reason I don’t have a lot of fb friends, and try not to be too hard on the ones I have.

 It’s only amusing if you believe in false dichotomies.

Being angry and being a good person are not mutually exclusive.

I flame in a quieter, more passive way (unless it’s a direct attack). For example, my fiance is in law enforcement, and I’m part of a group for spouses of said law enforcement officers….When one of the other wives posts something like, “I thank God that John came out alive from that altercation with the armed robber!” I usually “like” the comment and then post a cheerful reply like, “I am thankful everyday for the wonderful instructors at the police academy and the hours of training and experience that our guys have that prepare them  to handle incidents like this!” Not a direct jab, but specifically NOT thanking a deity for how events occurred, instead placing the credit where credit it due. Another example is when someone posts something like, “Rick is responding well to stem cell transplant and the doctors think he may be through the worst of it. Thank you all for praying, it really works!” My response will be, “So glad to hear that Rick is doing better! It’s great that medical science has advanced to where we can use such amazing procedures to save lives. I’m so grateful that scientists have pursued research in areas like stem cells so that doctors can use their findings to save lives!” Again, showing support for their glad tidings, while still focusing credit where it’s due.

Unfortunately, in many religions, that is *exactly* what it means. So, for JohnK, it might not be a false dichotomy that he can see or understand.

A guy I dated in my late 20s had the idea that one of the most awful things you could do was be angry so drilled into his head from his religious parents (“real” Xtians don’t get angry, anger is a sin, etc.) that he was impossible to deal with. He was so guilt-ridden if anything pissed him off, regardless of how justifiably, that he had a  difficult time functioning in the real world. And, if someone else was pissed off, no matter how justifiably, they were clearly bad people, too.Obviously, that was a big part of why the relationship didn’t last. As far as I know, he’s still in counseling (he’s not an atheist, but that kind of thing doesn’t just shut off, unfortunately).

There is something to be said about voicing an opinion without being overly confrontational. Sure, it’s passive-aggressive, but it’s better than the other, equally vocal alternative of possibly causing friction between he and his friend.

 We’re all good or bad without god, whether or not we believe or pretend to believe in the myth

I don’t usually use fb as a platform for my truest deepest personal opinions and feelings. I will think twice before airing my own grievances at a person (who is not my friend) or the world in general, or when I’m feeling at my worst. I try to keep an upbeat image that’s still honest. Personal policy – anyone may use fb for whatever, but I feel like it is my “blog,” and I like to keep a non-controversial image of myself, and I want to keep it from running the range to deep dark ugly times in my life, out of regard for my privacy and to keep others from battling me when it’s the last thing I need.

I hold my tongue, I don’t post atheist things, I do post secular things, I might like someone else’s comments or like a particular page, even if clearly atheist. The worst is my sister, and she’s gotten better (less frequent). We don’t get along and she is super-easy to set off and cry victim, so she posts icky newage things once in a while and I refrain from getting into arguments with her. I tend to regard her as not really my friend but my fb friend, so I back off where I might want to say something, I’m not the one she is posting those things about. I think it is more where she is groping for some rope to climb out of an emotionally negative state, and those airy-fairy shares are for her real friends.  But she is like me, most of what she posts are songs she likes. I have another “friend,” someone I barely know from a forum I used to post to that has nothing to do with religion. She likes to pray. I know she is a Christian, but she doesn’t say a lot about that, just that one of her favorite things to do is pray. She also posts weird stuff like looking for a water filter because she read some bs about hexagonal water(?), I forget. After that, I put her on “hide.” She’s a nice woman I don’t know talking about stuff that’s crap I just put her on ignore.

I have another friend who is an atheist (one of several that I know of among my friends) and yet I don’t agree with his politics. I sometimes say but mostly I don’t. I talk with him on the phone a lot and I can tell him or ask him about it later. He had asked me what he should do about one of his other friends constantly posting stuff about homeopathy. I don’t think it’s passive-aggressive to counter those comments by posting on your own page, usually in the form of an article with facts in it, apropos of “nothing,” or an xkcd comic panel, things they can’t really say is just your opinion, or a light-hearted jab in the form of someone else’s sense of humor, tends to make people feel less like they are being attacked and maybe even informed and doesn’t destroy the friendship. I do do this sometimes, if someone (like even my sister) posts something, I will find some way to message an adjacent article I found and maybe she’ll read it and get something from it, but it won’t feel like I’m directly answering her bullshit, because all she will feel is attacked. Just because the relationship is beyond repair (imo), doesn’t mean I have to make it worse. What would that say to my intentions, to say anything? That you are wrong to believe feel-good horseshit – she will hear “I hate you, you’re stupid, and you don’t deserve a better life.” An adjacently relevant article on my own wall that she can absorb privately if she finds it interesting will just be information to help her or have zero value at worst.

This is me. I don’t comment on friend’s random “inspirational” stuff, though I do roll my eyes a lot in the privacy of my own home. But, I don’t post atheist stuff because I am not in a position to be “out” as an atheist in this town. When I post secular stuff, however, I often get a ton of flaming (or did–I’ve removed most of those people or hidden my feed from them at this point), no matter how innocuous.  The more religious, the more flaming for anything related to secular policy (even if it has nothing to do with religion in any way, they can twist it and make it so).

*NOW an atheist, sorry.

One of my friends is what I like to call an AMP Mom. Acting/Modelling/Pageant Mom. If the people saying that you have anger issues read her constant stream of living through her kids, acting like the simple act of motherhood means she’s special from every other woman in the world, the condoning of bad behaviour, the excuses for short comings, the links to vote for model or pageant stuff, the zillions of photos, the inevitable rants against agents or pageant officials, and of course the play-by-play sprinkled in multiple times an hour? Yeah, they’d see that it’s more of an allergic reaction to stupid attention whoring than an anger issue.

I didn’t mean to imply that being angry was “bad” but that being insulting and condescending is. Duo said, “I constantly poke at my religious FB friends. The dumbasses need it.” That’s not anger, it’s just arrogant, which is bad. 

Actually, what you said was ”
…amused, actually. So much anger spewed by people who claim that they are “good without God.”

By saying that anger is “spewed” by people who claim to be good without god, you de facto say that they clearly aren’t (whether you meant to or not). This is a very well-known form of political rhetoric, as well as a tactic used against competitors in sales exactly because they can do what you just did: claim they didn’t say something that they clearly meant. This keeps them out of lawsuits. In fact, it’s so well-known that’s it taught in consumer education classes as something to specifically watch out for when making decisions.

 can’t argue with that.

None of those people did what they did in the name of atheism.

Oh Neil your just fireing off some now,thats not very nice and uncalled for young man

Troll

Dissenting views don’t make you a troll.  How long you’ve been commenting doesn’t prevent you from being a troll.  Your inflammatory statements and misrepresentation of views make you a troll.

I shouldn’t have been horrified? The indoctrination is pretty blatant at these rituals. The charade of pretending that the children knew what they were doing and had any kind of choice in the matter bothered me. These were innocent second graders. They were just doing what the adults told them to do.