Update on Student Who Wore ‘Life is Wasted Without Jesus’ Shirt

He’s a jerk.
His shirt is stupid.
Ban the jerkish behavior.
Allow him to wear the asinine shirt.
At the least it’s a visual cue to the rest of us to steer clear of him.
Much like flies and moths that are adorned as wasps and bees.

What a circus. All of this mess over a t-shirt. It removes attention and emphasis from learning. Put uniforms on the kids and at least avoid THAT class of distraction.

To be young and know everything.

Nailed the Hal Linden though.  Where’s Abe Vigoda?

Local to the story and following it from when it first hit the news. Smelled a rat (or maybe the shirt) and knew there was a story behind the story as soon as I heard that he had been wearing the same shirt everyday for weeks.

Yes, I hope there is a friendly atheist around when he finds out there is no Santa.

As a teacher’s aide that worked with behaviorally, sholastically and emotionally challenged teens I interpret a lot more to this story as well.  I see a student who was probably vocal and annoying in his beliefs, and an administration that failed to manage this from the very beginning.  They have failed in their duty to this young man and as well to the other students. Allowing other teens he annoyed to manipulate this through complaints over this t-shirt was the culmination.

As a parent of a teen (a vocal atheist, and I am agnostic) I would have done precisely the same thing as John Swinimer did and not allowed the kangaroo court that was set up today.  They are singling this student out one more time, but this time on a grand scale.  Why would any parent allow that after this administration has shown nothing but carelessness in handling this situation.

In the USA students do not have the same amount of freedoms afforded by the constitution. Which is why they can enforce a dress code and facial piercings, hair length, hair color etc. The Constitution and all of it’s protections are protections from the government. There are really no protections from other people, Universities, public schools, etc. etc. 

Well the young fellow did manage to teach most of the other students how not to behave so he’s done a good job as a bad example.  Good to hear that for a change we’re hearing about a school behaving in a proper way with this sort of controversy.  Cool.

“In the USA students do not have the same amount of freedoms afforded by the constitution. Which is why they can enforce a dress code and facial piercings, hair length, hair color etc. ”

Wrong.  My brother won a court case (Westley v. Rossi, 305 F.Supp. 706 (D.Minn.1969)) which ruled that:

The restriction here is one of appearance, not based on health or morals. Quaere whether the length of a boy’s hair is distractive today as would be girls scantily clad for instance so as to justify regulation. The rule here has effect beyond school, so were a school to prohibit a boy attending school with no shirt and bare to the waist, if he desires to go bare waisted in life at home or beyond the school he may take off the shirt as he leaves the school grounds. Such is not the case with hair. Even as to smoking the restriction is lost if the pupil leaves the school grounds. The hair restriction, however, invades private life beyond the school jurisdiction. The rule is an attempt to impose taste or preference as a standard. The standards of appearance and dress of last year are not those of today nor will they be those of tomorrow. Regulation of conduct by school authorities must bear a reasonable basis to the ordinary conduct of the school curriculum or to carrying out the responsibility of the school. No moral or social ill consequences will result to other students due to the presence or absence of long hair nor should it have any bearing on the wearer or other students to learn or to be taught.

No, I get it, despite what our good Maik Both thinks.  My point is, I could do without that type of shirt, but I could do without someone dressing as Jesus on fictional character day, too.  Both are, basically, a finger in the eye meant to shove a view on others.  The danger is only seeing the problem with the one I disagree with.  I see a problem with both.  The shirt is no less aggressive than the dress.  It isn’t as if the student who dressed as Jesus wasn’t aware of the implications.  Quite the contrary, his point, and those who celebrated him doing it, seemed pretty clear they loved the ‘finger in the eye of Christians’ attitude behind it.  For me, it’s best to keep it consistent and expect folks from both sides of fence to act the same way.

 Now that’s just uncanny! The only real difference I can see is Guido Sarducci’s hair is brown, this kids father has gray hair.

Why so angry with him? He simply misspelled the word, “with”.

Please learn to fully read the posts. Kid #1 (dressed as Jesus) didn’t get in his classmates’ faces and insult them, kid #2 (Mr. I Heart Jesus) did for quite awhile, including telling students off. Kid #2 isn’t *just* in trouble for his poorly chosen shirt choice.

I’m amazed that you can be so allergic to common sense.

Oh, and I’m still waiting for a kid to wear a “Life is WASTED without Edward” or “Life is WASTED without Jacob” t-shirt.

Dad wants religion out of the school all of a sudden? Then he did the right thing by pulling his pastor-in-training, uhm, I mean son, from school. I’ve been on the receiving end of the hellfire crap while stuck in school. Trust me, trying to figure out the best ways to avoid the preaching was highly distracting. The rants in my face even moreso. Kid’s a distraction to the educational process and was punished appropriately. Daddy and son need to get over themselves in a hurry.

“He will not attend this school unless they are having reading, writing and arithmetic — good old-fashioned academics,” he said, waving a New Testament bible.

You know, we have to get something that we can wave around dramatically as if it lent some credibility to our standpoint. I’m thinking a grilled-cheese sandwich with an image of nothing on it.

But let’s give the poor guys a break. They’ve obviously got some deep-seated neuroses that foster the whole attitude. Take away the christian assholery and they’d have to find a personality and start coping with society. That’s akin to asking them not to drive down the middle of the road or fart in elevators.

 1980 – ?. At the end of life your life is just a dash between two dates.
The average person lives to be around 80 + or – years old. This means
the average person gets to enjoy 8o summers, survives through 80
winters, and celebrates their birthday 80 times. The average person gets
to relax during the 4160 weekends between workdays. If you truly feel
that all life is is what you see now, and there is
nothing else after this life than please reconsider. Just ask Jesus
Christ to save you and after you leave this life you get to experience
endless amounts of weekends, and there is no deadline of life. You are
forever saved from death if you just ask Jesus Christ to forgive you for
your sins, and ask Him into your heart.

I’m fine with him wearing his shirt. That’s just free expression but when he tells people they are going to Hell, I take that as a threat. That to me goes beyond free speech into a threat of  eternal torture. That’s terrorism right there.

 I’m sorry, but it is a threat. It just isn’t a believable threat. But it is still a terroristic threat. If I told you that if you didn’t do what I say, my grandmother will shoot you, it really doesn’t matter that my grandmother is dead for it to be considered a threat. I see the threat of Hell the exact same way. It expresses a desire to harm by the person issuing the threat. They could be crazy for all I know, but they have issued a statement that they have a desire to harm me. so yes, Hell is a threat… empty or not, it is a threat.

Well, first off you are wrong to assume that my mind cannot be changed… especially if you make a good argument or present some credible evidence. My mind is always willing to change with new information. Second, I do see what you are saying about trivializing “real” incidents of threatening that are more actionable. However, my point is that threats of Hell are actionable by the person making the threat (obviously not from the deity). If someone says that you are going to Hell, it means that they believe that you deserve to go be tortured for all eternity. If someone is sufficiently motivated to believe that their imaginary deity has called on them to carry out his will, then it is a serious actionable threat. The problem is that we don’t know how seriously this person believes their bullshit. So maybe if the 80-year-old crossing guard says it, I might not feel threatened, but when a high school kid who has already shown that he takes his religion seriously tells you that you are going to hell, I take that as a threat. It may be actionable or it may not. That’s up to the authorities to decide or I may need more information to make the decision for myself. Third,  I hope your assumption that my mind can’t be changed is not projection on your part. You should also be willing to change your opinion if presented with a strong argument or evidence to the contrary. We are after all supposed to be people of reason. I get the whole, “I know I won’t change your mind” bullshit from Christians far too often.

Terrorism isn’t well defined, but I don’t think that fits the bill. 

Terroristic threat is a specific legal term, and better defined, although it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  But a common theme in the examples I’ve seen is credibility of the threat.  That is, you’d have to actually believe in hell, or that the person making the threat would and could harm you in some real way.  It might be considered a terroristic threat for a parent or priest to tell a believing child that they’re going to hell.  The point is it’s not about knowing that someone despises you, it’s about having a real fear of real harm.

While I don`t entirely disagree with you quick thought experiment. 

If someone tries to hire a hitman to kill you and its an undercover cop is it still a threat on your life?

or 

If someone picks a gun off your desk and threatens to shoot you is it no longer a threat if you know its not loaded but they don’t?

While I agree that threats of hell aren’t legally threats I’m not convinced they aren’t morally threats.

Cough…. wasn’t origin of species a banned book under Nazis Germany…. that’s some tough love from such a big fan. 
http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm

You didn’t see soviet Russia banning the communist manifesto did you?

 The first one, I don’t really understand. The second one is still a threat, it is just not an credible threat in my opinion. But both of these examples miss my point. It isn’t Hell that i would be afraid of it is the religious persons conviction that I deserve to be tortured for all eternity and their willingness to carry out this punishment in the name of their deity of choice. Hell is a threat insofar as it expressed the desire and willingness of the person toward violence. But again, every situation is different and if the 80-year-old crossing guard said it to me, I probably wouldn’t consider it a credible threat.

It depends on if the death threat is part of it.  As in, Burn in Hell NOW, or Burn in Hell eventually?  It would come down to a case by case basis, but I personally wouldn’t assume the immediacy unless it was articulated.

People disagree with my cognitive dissonance…I must insult them and compare them to Hitler!

I have this philosophy regarding Christianity (or any other religion); I will live my life to the best of my ability. I will try to be kind, understanding and compassionate. I will always seek the truth, regardless of whether I like the answers I find. If when I die, and there happens to be something other than oblivion, I will face this too. Let’s pretend that I meet ‘your’ God. I have been told that HE is the Truth, the Way, and the Life. Already, we have something in common. I have also been told that HE is the ground of all being, the quintessential essence of love.(I’ll leave out the genocidal bits). If HE chooses to reject me on the grounds of faithlessness in life, then so be it. Back to reality. I will not be goaded or intimidated into believing something without evidence. In order for YOU to be converted to another religion, evidence is presumably required. In the end, I rule nothing out, but my commitment to an idea is somewhat proportional to the evidence for that idea. Your arrogance is astounding. Why not let the Prophet Muhammad into your heart, and repent of your sinful christian ways, heretic? Exactly. That’s how I heard your tone deaf, evidence lacking ‘pitch’.

He still gets to wear the shirt, but he’s an asswipe. Must be genetic.

“…soon he will be getting death threats as well”

So what you are saying is we are building up to it? (eye roll) If atheism was anything like theism we would be there already.  

I don’t recall any delay to the death threats in that “Jessica girl” incident, it was damn near instant, from Zero to ‘Curb Stomping’ like a Ferrari on rocket fuel. 

The comments here, including my own, have been rather fair, placing the tee-shirt under the protection of free speech. 

…”their willingness to carry out this punishment in the name of their deity of choice….”

And HOW do you describe or define “willingness”? How is this willingness to do physical harm being expressed? Be specific for crying out loud. You keep trying to defend the indefensible by hiding behind a cloud of obfuscation and vaguery. If I walk up to you and tell you that you deserve to die a horrible and agonizingly slow death, all I’ve done is expressed my dislike for you. There is no difference between that and what you claim is a viable threat from a Christian. You claim to be able to change your mind once confronted with facts but so far all I’ve observed is that you’ve done is ignore the facts and stubbornly push your point of view as reality. How is that rational?

 No, not really. If they threatened to SEND you to the hell you so richly deserve THAT is a real threat.
If a guy twice my size walks up to me cracking his knuckles and looms over me menacingly (invades my personal space) and doesn’t way a word, THAT COULD…COULD be construed as a physical threat. In many instances you’d be justified in acting upon that threat with the amount of force necessary to stop the subject.

 An argument could be made that YOU present more of a viable threat due to your unreasonable level of fear and paranoia. Both, by the way are hallmarks of extremist thinking.
I’d reconsider your argument. The facts just don’t back you up. wishing something to be so, doesn’t make it so.

 Maybe you haven’t provided any credible evidence or presented a decent argument. You sure haven’t listened to anything I had to say. So I have have to call this arguments quits. We’ll have to just agree to disagree.

“…It may not warrant calling the police or taking it before a judge. Like I
said before, it depends on the situation. But it is a threat and that
is my point….”

If it’s not something you can respoind to with the force of the civil or criminal legal system, the NO, it’s not a threat. You can take it as a threat all you want, but that does not make it a threat.

Yes, the Jesus-dress-up guy was fully aware of the implications…just like this guy was fully aware of the implications of his t-shirt.  That’s why a lot of commetners here don’t care about the shirt very much, and essentially agree with you as far as that simple comparison goes.   

Where we disagree with you is your apparent opinion that wearing such a costume or shirt is in the same “in your face” league as unwelcome preaching and saying “go to hell” and the like, as pointed out in THIS article. 
If this is not your opinion, feel free to say so…since you’re apparently not taking any of the content of this article into account, it’s all I have to work with.
To be honest, I go a bit further, (as I have argued with RWlawoffice on other posts) and say that the nature of chrisitian theology is far more offensive, in simple terms of what is presented as TRUTH, than a simple statement of atheism could ever be…but there’s not really any true accounting for what might offend someone.

At any rate, you MIGHT have had a point when this story first came out, if there had been a huge lynch mob of atheists demanding he be suspended for the shirt alone…although I think most here reacted quite reasonably.   But now that fuller information has been disclosed, I think any honest person can see the difference between the amount of offense and nuisance caused by each individual, as well as a feel for the social atmosphere at each school.  Taking everything in context, there isn’t much of a comparison.

But if it’s easier for you, ignore the full context and past history of each student and school, hop in your time machine, go back to the first post on the subject, and beat your dead horse to your heart’s content.

Great comment, Jason Friesen!  Can you get that printed up on extra soft two-ply?   I had a big pizza lunch,  so  I know I’m gonna have some serious wiping to do later.
That kind of paranoid, rambling, self-indulgent crazy is just the perfect level of abrasive & absorbent, for maximum hygeine!  Thanks!

 I always thought rules about hair length and facial hair on boys was stupid. I’m glad this happened. When was this decided again?

You and your preaching…can’t even get away from you idiots on a comments page.

Make a comment relevant to the topic or get lost.

Prove to me that your precious Jeebus is any more real than Crom and his prophet Conan (rage be upon him), whose glorious prophecy was revealed to his disciple Robert E Howard.

He´s a Brave Guy, May G-d Bless Him, Best Regards from Spain.