A Christian Apologizes for the Treatment of Jessica Ahlquist

What a great post! 

In reading this, I had two thoughts.

First, thank you Alise!  If more faithful were as reasonable as you, there would be so much less antipathy and need for pushback.  So many of the radical believers don’t realize that this decision was correct, and protects them as well.  There is a solid principle of letting everybody believe as they see fit, and practice that belief insofar as it doesn’t infringe on others.  And when faith becomes government mandated or endorsed, it ceases to be a free choice.

But my first thought wasn’t so nice, and in retrospect not fair.  The title is missleading, and makes it appear that a Christian is apologizing for the wrongs done by others.  My first thought was that this was another example of forgiveness by proxy, which is a Christian principle after all, but wholly inappropriate.  Only the injured has a right to meaningful forgiveness.

But this isn’t at all what Alise is apologizing for.  She is clearly and correctly admonishing those who bullied and complained and so on.  She is correct to do so on Christian principles, and on American Constitutional principles, and on principles of human decency.  What she  apologizes for is not standing up sooner for what is right.

If all Christians and other believers behaved this way, we’d all get along a whole lot better, even if disagreeing. 

So really, change the title.  She’s not apologizing for Jessica’s treatment, she’s apologizing for not standing up sooner.  A small fault for somebody who does stand up.

Thank you for speaking up, Alice. That took real guts.

“So to my fellow Christians? Stop it. Stop the name-calling. Stop the death threats. Stop the angry letters, the whining about attacks on religion, the accusations that Jessica is just a tool. Treat her the way you want to be treated by those who disagree with you. ”

I apoligize if I missed it, but I didn’t see anything like this on your blog, Alise.  I appreciate that you’ve really connected with the larger problem surrounding this issue, but there’s another audience that needs to hear your appeal.

Check again, she’s put it up. 🙂

I agree.  The title also colored my reading of the article and I was predisposed to the same ultimately unwarranted indignation.

FTR, this wasn’t my title for the post. I really don’t mean to apologize for anyone’s actions – I only wanted to speak to what I personally have done, which was just to say nothing. I know how much silence hurts and given that the person very closest to me is an atheist, I am embarrassed that I waited so long to speak up. 

I just wanted to add that I think this was a wonderful post also. Alise, more people like you are what I want to see in this world, regardless of their religion or lack thereof. Hopefully this message will spread wide in your sphere also.

You rock! Woohoo!

Yes, most atheist/freethinker websites and blogs seem to have Christian or Mormon ads featured very prominently. It couldn’t be random, it must be requested by the advertiser (I don’t know how web advertising works). But you wonder what kind, if any, response they get from these weirdly placed ads.

Alise, all I can say is…..Bravo 🙂  and thank you. Like Canadian Atheist (Eh?), I got a little teary reading your words as well  (I’m a Canadian Atheist as well, maybe we’re bigger softies than most 🙂

I think I was moved by your post not just because it’s incredibly refreshing to see/hear a Christian who understands that Jessica’s actions did not amount to ‘persecution’ of Christians or Christianity and that the constitutional principles at the heart of her suit protect Christians as well (I participate in a lot of forums and I can tell you that I might have encountered 2 or 3 Christians (at most) who demonstrated this understanding), but also because this goes beyond Christians and atheists……

most importantly, imo, your words/actions are a wonderful example for how human beings should treat each other. In situations like this, it’s so easy to dig one’s heels in and commit to a ‘defensive’ position and do nothing else ~ but to be willing to put yourself in the shoes of someone on the other side, and, when doing that leads to the recognition of mistreatment, to go further and speak out and stand up (especially when others from your side will probably howl in disagreement) deserves high praise.

When you act with things like honesty, integrity. fairness, compassion and bravery, you’re not only a credit to whatever small ‘tribe’ you belong to, but you’re a credit to the tribe that we ALL belong to.

 My guess is that it is because she believes in Jesus.

I mean the reason I am not a christian isn’t that “some christians are terrible people” it is that I *dont* believe in Jesus.

 The ads are usually chosen by algorithms or something that picks up on keywords and tags on the site and tries to match it with relevant ads. Since atheist sites deal mostly with religion, you get religious ads.

Nicely done, Alise. Thank you.

The only way I get to be free to practice Christianity is if everyone else in the country is free to practice Islam, Judaism, Atheism, etc. That’s how freedom of religion and separation of church and state work. Jessica’s courage and clear-sightedness should be applauded, because in the end, she is also standing up for my right to worship Jesus. Thank you, Alise, for calling us out. And thank you, Jessica, for standing up for what is right.

 That’s a bit of a disjointed question…  Obviously she believes in her version of Jesus-related religion, but doesn’t see the nastiness you describe as inherent to Christianity.
Having said that, I don’t want to put words in her mouth.
I have to say I agree with that point-of-view, though. Christianity doesn’t *make* people nasty, any more than it makes people nice.
It allows the person’s own nature to shine through, and provides a foundation to affix all kinds of good and bad attitudes to, and to excuse them.

Thanks for the kind words. I wish the Fox News comments with endless threats of violence would stop. They need to be more like you. Atheists are some stand-up people. I think that is the problem. Atheists want freedom for Christians as well as atheists. That’s it. Without death threats towards a CHILD! Seriously? Anyway, thanks again.

If other atheists act poorly, do you stop being an atheist? This seems like a bit of a silly question.

Alise, I know you “to actually be someone who gives a crap about people who aren’t Christians.” Regularly. Persistently. Even when it’s not popular. And when the people you’re giving a crap about treat you like crap, still you care, still you show love and compassion. You are the best kind of Christian. The real kind. xo

IDK, Alise. I think you wrote about where your heart led you to write. And I also think no matter when you speak out, the most important thing is that you do speak out. I’m frankly tired of belongint to a church that is more about judgement and oppression than about love. It embarrasses me and makes me sad. These people, supposed Christians, are agents of vitriol and division. They literally CAN NOT comprehend a world that does not align itself completely with their beliefs. And that’s frankly bullshit. So, keep writing and talking about what you need to write and talk about.

Beautiful, Alise. You couldn’t have expressed my own heart better. I’m a Canadian Christian (hi to the other Canucks I saw here in the comments! And yes, I was teary, too…maybe we are just all softies despite the hockey…) and I was surprised by the story. Thank you for standing up for Jessica on behalf of many of us that respect and honour her, precisely *because* of our faith and convictions about the teachings of Jesus.

I have never understood how people who believe themselves to be followers of Christ,  feel compelled to say hateful things and send death threats to people who don’t believe as they do.  Did they miss the part in the Bible where Jesus said we’re supposed to bless those who curse us?  I’ve always believed that I should respect the beliefs (or lack of beliefs) of all individuals and it’s not my place to judge.  I think Jesus had something to say about that too. 

 Ingersoll is Robert G. Ingersoll, a prominent free-thinker from around the last turn of the century.

This has more info and quotes from him: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/newton_baker/intimate_view.html

I know how much silence hurts 

as we say in the gay community, it doesn’t just “hurt.” our motto for many years has been “Silence = Death” because it’s literally true. you have taken an important step towards understanding this truth. thank you. may your intellectual evolution continue. i will pass your words around to the places i go where people like you are uncommon, because i respect real Christians who actually “follow in the footsteps of Christ.” stay on this path, Sister. 

  First, and by far most importantly, THANK YOU for speaking up about
this, and for the wonderful and moving way you did so.  As an atheist,
it’s good to see examples of religious people speaking out on these
issues.  As someone with many religious friends, it’s good to be
reminded there are people who behave with kindness and people who behave
with viciousness in every group.

Now, in a much smaller point, I wanted to highlight an aspect of how you
phrased your explanation of why you are still a Christian.  You said
you “believe in the deity of Jesus of Nazareth”, which while possibly
ambiguous, certainly sounds like a factual claim about the existence of
something outside yourself, in the world of matter and energy that we
all share. Seen as such, it’s appropriate to examine it with the best
tools we have for determining the truth of such claims. But you also
said that you “just love [Jesus’s] message & it resonates with [you]

more than any other”, which is clearly a claim only about your own
thoughts and feelings. Such a claim stands on its own, as a
self-justifying description of oneself.  What I wanted to highlight was
the conflation of, and fluidity in switching between, an apparent claim
about the world and a claim about yourself.  I think this is a common,
if problematic practice, and your comment gave a good example of it.

Nevertheless, it’s a small point — the thing that needs to be said here
is: Thank you, and may you continue to do your good work in both the
theist and non-theist communities.

Not true. Communists are atheists and the are screwing entire countries over daily.

You took the words right out of my mouth, Jennifer. The lack of grace in this situation is astounding to me and so sad. Thank you for speaking up, Alise. I add my apology to yours.

 Not true, Communists follow the Cult of  their Leader — observe North Korea, for example…

Great article, Alise! More Christians should take your apology letter into consideration. Did we forget the greatest commandment of all? Love your neighbor as yourself? This is one of the big ones we Christians should follow, but not many of us take that into account.

Guys, not all Christians are stereotyped into being preachy, mean and know-it-alls. Some of them give us a bad name for the way they act. I am a firm believer of what Jesus said about loving your neighbor as yourself. Everyone deserves second chances. Even more than second chances. Heck, the deserve all the chances they can get.

Now, those who do not believe in God – isn’t this common sense? to love one another? To treat people as you’d like to be treated? Let’s forget about the labels and the ‘religion.’ It’s about loving one another. Jessica, keep strong!

 Clearly you have some misunderstandings.  Religious faith is a world view. A set of values etc. If someone claims to hold those same values but rapes kids it is a problem.

Atheism is NOT a world view. It is simply the lack of belief in gods. Your comparison fails. Just because someone doesn’t believe in santa claus and is a rapist it does not follow that I should then start to believe in santa claus.

On the other hand if all Christians are not the same then there cannot be a single true religion and no single true god. If both the good and bad Christians claim the same beliefs, morals,  and world view then how can one tell them apart?
There are already thousands of Christian groups who differ on what it means to be a Christian. Are all of them right?

You might claim that they are not good Christians and the response will be then show us what a good Christian is and we’ll show you dozens of Christians who say you are wrong.

Atheists have no club, no rules, no world view. If you do not believe in gods then no matter what else you are or what your world view is, you are an atheist. Not one other thing has to be the same between two atheists. There is no claim that two atheists will have the same world view.

Thanks, Ms. Wright. What you’ve done is important.  Yes, it’s important for atheists to support “our own,” but it’s important, too, that Christians who don’t agree with the public, vocal nastiness speak out, too. Just as it’s important for men to speak out against rape.

I am very grateful that Alise’s post was shared on here. Being a “Christ Follower” I am  always reminded and I try to do my best (although I am not perfect) to love my neighbor, show grace, love and mercy. Having a friend who is an atheist, who cannot say that she is for fear of being mistreated, this post makes my heart heavy and that I need to do better to stand up for people regardless of their beliefs. Thank you again for sharing

Yep, Jains are very nice people. I just don’t believe in their nonsense.

This is the correct answer.

Ancestor worship is not god worship. Some people “pray to” Justin Beiber and even refer to him as one. That doesn’t mean they actually believe him a diety. Adoring the leader prevents you from being punished. Stalin was NOT considered a supernatural being even in Stalinist ideology. Silent prayer to Stalin in expectation he would hear and grant wishes never happened. So it is silly to us it as a further example that communism is theistic.

What is the source for this ridiculous line of reasoning. Is this the new excuse for Marxism being taught in X studies courses on campus? Curious because I’ve never heard this claim before. I’ve heard the claim that Marxism is irrational and like a religion before, but not that they are theists. Talk about no true scotsman.

I’m an atheist and I’ve got no problem with the fact that Marxism is a philosophy which has resulted in more murder than even Nazism. I happen not to be a Marxist.