Christian Apologetics… in Reality

True, but not for all apologetics. Some of them actually think they have a real argument, cough cough Ray Comfort cough cough.

I agree with ThSecularThinker on this some do feel that they have a legitimate argument.  However, my experience is that the apologists either do  not want to ask themselves the hard questions, or will find some arcane way to justify the answers.  Either way, it is a tough conversation for a rational or empirical evidence seeking person.

Apologetics is the systematic study of exactly which logical fallacies may best be employed to prop up a failed argument.

🙂
I could almost hear the banjos being strummed in the background…

There’s nothing inherently irrational about religious claims.

It’s hard to tell if he actually believes what he spews or not. Either way, it is sad but true that there are plenty of religious leaders out there who knowingly preach this stuff to make a buck or two. 

Even more tragic are the thousands if not more preachers, rabbis, imams, priests, etc. who have realized their beliefs are unsupported but have no way out of the church. Their financial and social well being has become dependent upon the church,  something I hope will change as time goes on.

 turns out it is easier to be considered a “great thinker” when anyone who questions your ideas gets burned at the stake.

I must admit that this week’s comic presents a bit of a straw man. If
only for the earnest regret the character expresses for his dogma’s
inherit flaws. Its hard to capture the thought process of folks who
genuinely see these contradictions as a problem yet choose to walk the line of making excuses.

Oh that’s not hard at all. You just have to find yourself a socially liberal theist. They will apologetically tell you that they understand how you would be repelled by the religion because it’s followers are so often backwards and intolerant, but really that’s not the true spirit of their religion, which actually has a “core message” all about love and acceptance. Point out various horrific passages in their holy book and you’ll hear a lot about “allegory” and “metaphor”.

To them, all of this is true. If they come from a liberal denomination they’ve been taught since birth that their god is about loving and accepting and helping. By the time they get old enough that challenges to those notions arise, they look at them and either think “Well that’s not the god I believe in! It’s just too simplistic to take it literally. Obviously it was just a metaphor” or…they become a lot of the people on this blog 😉

 Very much so.  Nothing m0re infuriating than a group that sets things up so it’s the only game in town, with any and all competition, dissent, or opposition of any kind being violently suppressed, then claim that they are responsible for any good things that came out of that time, asking “well, where were your precious atheists/pagans/etc when the Church was opening universities and commissioning artwork and music (all of it, of course, supportive of the Church-based status quo)?”  Where were they?  Any unbelievers and alternative religious believers were living in terror of your godly “persuasion”, should it come out or even be suspected that they are not one with the Church’s views.

You don’t get to torture your competition into silence and obscurity, then claim that the products of your enforced monopoly make you and your ilk superior to all other ways of thinking.  Here’s a big hint–once you no longer got to hold your jackboot on the throats of society, the vast majority of good artists and creative people strangely lost interest in singing the praises of Jebus.  Once you no longer got to hold your jackboot on the throats of society, the echo chamber  began to dissipate, discussion ensued, and it’s been a long time since any religious apologists have been considered “great thinkers”.  That only happened in the days when religious thinking was the only kind of thinking allowed.  Interestingly, it doesn’t fare well when it has to compete fairly.

 Please translate “ay polo.”

 “Very much so.  Nothing m0re infuriating than a group that sets things up
so it’s the only game in town, with any and all competition, dissent,
or opposition of any kind being violently suppressed, then claim that
they are responsible for any good things that came out of that time,”

Are we talking about religion or the Mafia? Wait a minute….

Richard, it’s not only the Tennessee hicks who are convinced by Christian arguments. You seem to be assuming that clever people can’t be taken in by even the most outrageous nonsense, and yet it happens every day. As Sun Tzu reminds is in The Art of War, you must have true respect for your enemy if you are to defeat him. Having come from the fundamentalist camp myself, I know that there are frightfully clever people who genuinely believe their apologetics and are genuinely passionate about convincing others to believe it too. Even the people with a good dental plan.

Talking snakes? Rib woman? Magic tree? Virgin Birth? Bearded dude ascending to heaven on a horse?

Yup, nothing irrational there. You got us.

Okay guys, pack it up, Garren got us! Party is over….

Please give a cite for your comment that there are thousands of preachers, rabbis, imams,  priests, etc. you are no longer believers.

Hi David,

You are correct about people having genuine belief. For what it’s worth, put me down as another successful, college educated, high income bracket, city-dwelling, non hick, business owning, high IQ individual who believes in the Gospel, and that Jesus was God, etc. 

There are no “techniques” that we teach our children, just love, faith, and their own authentic observation of what brings peace of mind and day-to-day happiness.

I also know some frightfully clever people who genuinely believe what they preach (that the universe and all that we know spontaneously came about on its own, that there is no intrinsic right and wrong) and are passionate about convincing others to believe it too.

(Full disclosure – I do not have a dental plan.

Where do you live? You need to get out and meet new people!

I hear banjo music. Paddle faster.

yeah. I am from Alabama. Cue the banjos..

Alabama – where X marks the signature

(and typing fast in an Internet chat board does not mean you need to be accurate with each and every word – christ, on major stories every goo editor knows the writer is going to submit lots of typos)

My apology was not addressed to you.  Whatever are my first thoughts are not necessarily the best thing for me to just blurt out to people, you included. In the past, I used my wit to be downright cruel, but I grew up. Now I have the forethought, discipline, and simple decency to weigh my words carefully, and as a result, they seem to carry much more weight with people. On the rare occasions when I decide that I have spoken inappropriately, I own it and make proper amends. I might be misinterpreting you, but if by “grow a pair” you mean that you think that a conscientious apology is a sign of weakness, then I think you should reconsider that it is a sign of maturity and deep self-confidence. 

John,

Perhaps you don’t come from a fundamentalist denomination, but in the Evangelical church I was raised in they did teach people how to “get around” a non-believer’s intellect and exploit emotional arguments in order to “close the deal.” I’m blanking on what the actual phrase used was, but in essence they were adapting sales techniques in order to “win another for Jesus.”

Since you seem to be a Christian reader of the Friendly Atheist blog, do you also teach your children to seek out and examine rational evidence for their faith, as well as tolerance for others beliefs and lifestyles, and keeping your opinions to yourselves?

That wasn’t intentionally misspelled to demonstrate FSq’s point? Peo-ple problam? Come on…

So what do you folks think of this crackpot? I was quite disturbed when I saw this weirdo going from apologetics to apoplectics, on a pulpit-pounding rant about “the end of xtianity”, going on about how humanity would one day evolve to a lifeform similar to the N’avi who would no longer need xtianity, and then calling himself an atheist! He’s inspired a number of spoof blogs and hate blogs written by atheists and religious folk alike.

I think Hemant should debate him, if he hasn’t already.

Check this out:

http://debunkingcrap.blogspot.com