A Conversation About Religion… Kind of… on ‘How I Met Your Mother’

There was also a discussion about this on a recent episode of “The Middle;” the youngest child, Brick, decided to question the bible’s accuracy, which his older sister didn’t much like. She tried to convince him, but in the end decided to allow him to believe what he wanted. He chose to believe that the bible wasn’t true, but commented that “it was a nice story anyway,” or something.

Do you think we’ll ever see a character who not only dismisses religion/faith as untrue or useless, but isn’t either A. An ass hole or B. Wasn’t raised in a loving home (This episode uses this idea)?

Funny – and very well done; writers walking a tightrope between directly making fun of religion and not giving the audience the rope to hang them with; in America – this is progress…

How could I forget about Kurt!? One could possibly argue since he’s gay they made him hate religion, but I think that episode did a good job showing him justify his non-belief with logic as well.

the “something bigger out there” line was used exactly to set up the ‘werewolves’ response – so I don’t think you found it as annoying as you’re letting on…

 I thought it was completely hilarious. I also think it was supposed to be a dig at people who use these same arguments for the existence of god. They always get really angry when people compare god to things like bigfoot, leprechauns, etc; this exchange did exactly that using the exact arguments that so often come out of their mouths as arguments directly for things that aren’t god. It also did this without being direct and so it doesn’t immediately put them on the defensive (oh shit…I’m not really an accomodationist, really I’m not)

I think the whole thing is subversive and all the more funny for it.

Although maybe I’m reading far more into it than I should…but I don’t think so. I think that’s exactly what the writers had in mind (ok maybe hope is a better word to use here than think).

I’m happy that Lily is the reasonable one in the duo. I’ve been a fan of Alyson Hannigan (Lily) ever since she played Willow (a lesbian witch) in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.  (I’m looking forward to the Avengers movie this summer by director Joss Whedon who is an atheist).

I enjoyed that storyline… Until it came down to Lily not believing in werewolves because her father had neglected her growing up, so while Marshall was learning all about Roswell aliens from his father, she learned to believe in nothing but herself.

It’s good that she’s such a strong person, and the coda is sweet, but I can’t help but come away from that with the lesson that rationalism is a sad, sad way to live that only people who had a terrible childhood would adopt, either because they weren’t exposed to anything better or as a self-defense mechanism.

It’s not even subtle: Lily pretty much says exactly that. You can still handwave that they weren’t talking about rationality or atheism, this is just about Lily and Marshall and their issues, but. Well.

And there was also the Cockamouse episode which was devoted to that, and now that I think of it wasn’t it also a believer vs atheist allegory ?

That’s one of those ones i’ve been “keeping an eye on.” They drop little hints everywhere that she’s at least not a Christian, but i’m curious if they’ll when they’ll dive into it and really explain what she believes. I’m hoping it’s a non-issue. Like an episode will build us up to believe she was harmed by religion in the past when in reality she just doesn’t accept the claims.

It doesn’t. Lily and Marshall’s discussion isn’t about enjoying vampire, werewolf or Godzilla stories. It’s about believing them.
Marshall literally believes that Bigfoot and Nessie and (it now appears) werewolves exist.

I would think that was pretty clear from the original post, my comment and all the other comments, so I’m not sure what you mean here.

I caught that episode and thought it was great!  

Wow, dramatic much ? I didn’t quite understand how your comment related to mine but it was obviously a response to me, so I corrected a misconception it seemed to contain and wondered aloud what you meant. Re-reading the original post I still think it’s pretty clear from it that Marshall believes in werewolves  but for Heaven’s sake you don’t need to beat yourself up over such a small misunderstanding. Or guilt me for having had the gall to point it out. (now who’s being dramatic…)

Misunderstandings aside I’d love to discuss the relationship between rationalism and werewolves with you.

Whoosh.

Right over your head.

I get the set-up, dude, I just thought it was kind of weak.

Also, as someone else mentioned, the non-believer, i.e. Lily, is painted as the cynical non-believer because of the poor relationship she has with her dad. This is a ridiculously overused stereotype. Why praise writers who reinforce it?

…you found it annoying enough to think the joke was funny   – sounds pretty annoyed to me=not!

I need to get around to watching that; But I’ve always loved Hannigan since that “…one summer, at band camp…” (i.e. American Pie)… 😉

Oh yeah, “All in the Family” is in a category all of its own.

I LOVE Kurt, and I thought Glee did an awesome job “outing” its atheist characters…but didn’t Kurt’s atheism stem originally from his mother’s death? Just as Coach Sue’s atheism stemmed from her sister’s Down Syndrome? It’s as if writers don’t believe (or don’t think their audiences will buy) an atheist character who came to their decision via a rational, thoughtful, pain-free process.

“giving the ‘believer’ part ot Marshell seemed to be an odd decision at first first (since he is usually shown to be well-educated)”…I’m not a ‘believer’ … but this is one of my biggest problems with conversations I have seen between believers and nonbelievers of god and/or religion.  I hate this so much.  There is no conversation.  Marshall, despite throughout the entire series being shown as someone who believes in such myths and legends as Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster, now, when it parodies religion directly, it is odd that Marshall takes that stance, since he is “well-educated.”  True stereotype or not, I hate that fact that seemingly all atheists are as closed-minded as the radical religious groups.  

What?  Since Marshall is well-educated, he’s not allowed to believe in the existence of God?  I’ve never met an atheist who didn’t believe that a person who believes in God is inherently stupid.  It seems the idea of faith, which I guess this makes sense, gets lost on atheists.  Being intelligent or well educated doesn’t mean giving up a sense of faith.

Why does believing in something beyond our own existence make you stupid?  Science is all about the pursuit of truth and fact.  And as much as you’re going to hate this, none of us will know the “truth” behind the existence of a God or afterlife until we die.  For those normal, everyday human beings, why does it offend you if they believe there is a God?  If you are right, then they will never know anyway.

Sorry for the rant.  This belief that people who believe are stupid bugs me.