Christian Billboard Suggests Stalin’s Atrocities Were Due to His Atheism

“Cojones” Hemant, “cojones”.

Taunton was good friends with Hitchens. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xorMPrHrzNU) He DEFINITELY should know better than to invoke Stalin.

I wonder how many of his target audience will actually recognize Stalin…

Ashamed? I think it’s an excellent marketing strategy.

Someone should erect an identical billboard, except with a picture of Albert Einstein.

You got a bracket stuck on the end of your link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xorMPrHrzNU 

I am surprised to see this come from Taunton.  Seems like every day something happens that I wish I had Hitch’s response to.

Except Iraq and Afghanistan.

“We have had Christian presidents and an overwhelmingly Christian Congress for decades now and look at what we have to show for it: thousands of dead soldiers from unnecessary wars, GLBT people denied equal rights under the law, women unable to get safe abortions (or even birth control) in many parts of the country, etc.”

But wouldn’t someone who would write this book think these are good things?

Guess which one would be vandalized.

Jeeze dog I’m a staunch dem but can you direct me to the part of this country where a women is unable to get birth control?

I always tell Christians that I’m willing to accept that atheism caused Stalin’s murderous actions, if they’re willing to accept that Jesus caused Ted Haggard to do crystal meth, and cheat on his wife with a male prostitute.

Conscientious objection clauses for pharmacists, for one. New Hampshire tried to change some of its laws so clinics like Planned Parenthood wouldn’t be allowed to write prescriptions for antibiotics or birth controll, and it can be argued that states like Indiana and elsewhere trying to deny funding to PP interfere with the availability of birth control. Recently, haven’t you paid attention to the U.S. Catholic Bishops in a tizzy in Washington because the Obama Administration wants birth control recognized as preventative medicine? This, of course, says nothing about the paternal oversight of the medical profession making it so difficult for women under 30 to obtain an IUD or sterilization.

Even those.  I didn’t have to agree with him to appreciate his take.  I knew it was an honest, and informed, opinion.  What I was less interested in was his “women aren’t as funny as men” bullshit.

Maybe that’s why he waited until now?

Why do so many people misunderstand what Hitch said about that?

women unable to get safe abortions (or even birth control) in many parts of the country

I skimmed that too quickly at first.  Some of the GOP candidates are pushing positions that would make some forms of birth control illegal, and the RC Church would like to just give us all ovulation prediction calendars, and some people are squawking over the idea that health insurance be required to cover oral contraception,

but

“unable to get” and “many parts of the country” is a little over the top for me.

There was the Союз воинствующих безбожников (league of militant/belligerent atheists) which was encouraged (late 1920s-1930s) and then discouraged/disbanded by Stalin (between 1940-47 when Stalin wanted the support of the Orthodox and the Orthodox church during World War II).

Just listen to the lyrics of the old Soviet Union National Anthem, and you can see the state wasn’t a government… but a religion.  All you have to do is change a few words: Communism to Christianity, Lennin to Jesus, and the scarlet banner to the sacred cross… and you almost have the perfect anthem for the American Theocracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yDrtNEr_5M

“honest, and informed, opinion.” Thanks for the lulz.

[Richard Dawkins’s] website plays host to the largest atheist congregation outside of North Korea

-Larry Taunton

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/story/2011-12-26/dawkins-atheism-christmas-meaning/52230682/1 

[Stalin] replaced god with himself.

Which, of course, is what many Christians assume atheism is all about. Thus, while Taunton’s conclusion is highly questionable, it’s consistent with his assumptions.

Well, sort of. Personally I’d think that autoapotheosis (which apparently isn’t a word, but should be) could be just as plausibly associated with Objectivism.

If someone tells you she’s an atheist, all you know is that she doesn’t believe in a god.

But the odds definitely favor her being to the “left” of the political spectrum. (In the USA, anyway. IIRC the correlation is much less predictable in other, less theomaniacal nations.)

As bad as the stupid atheist billboard “Science put a man on the moon and religion put planes into buildings” I just hate these sweeping ignorant statements from either side. To many commenter recommending equally ridiculous signs from the other viewpoint. Enough already don’t get on the same level.

I think the Scientologists should put up a sign pointing out that all evil regime leaders have been non-Scientologists.

(They were probably non-believers in fairies too.)

AFAIK, Stalin never made his opinions known about whether he was a theist or an atheist.

What goes with non-belief in gods depends on how one came to that position. 

Those who came to it by long investigation of the claims of their “home” religion tend to be both educated and liberal, things that correlate well with the investigative personality. 

On the other hand, those who came to atheism as the result of reading Ayn Rand and other Libertarian literature, tend to be less well-educated and side with red necks and conservative thinking. 

Then there are those who came to their atheism by virtue of never having been indoctrinated during childhood.  They are all over the place in their attitudes, values, political leanings, educational accomplishment and moral reasoning.

The reason why atheists are so often associated with liberal thinking is that those who have the education and interest to write about it are also those that came to their atheism as the result of engaging in activities that generally lead to liberal viewpoints, regardless of religious beliefs.

And they are equally silent (selective ignorance?) about the situation in those with Socialist governments (Scandinavian countries) or those with combination Capitalist-Socialized governments (Britain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand).  

Not trying to defend that billboard, but are you sure the book’s author has much of an influence on the ad campaign? Did you read the book? Might be more of an attempt to get some publicity by the publisher in order to sell more copies.

If it’s really the book’s premise that Stalin committed his atrocities because of his atheist world view then it’s another stupid attempt at trying to make a long-debunked argument true by repeating it. Until that’s clear I’d give the author the benefit of the doubt.

I really thought you were only supposed to Godwin towards the *end* of a discussion, not use it as an opening point.

S0meone should put “Citation needed” underneath “So did he”

We’re talking about contraception, right?  I agree that limitations on Plan B count, but I don’t think that equates to ‘unable to get birth control’.

Pretty ironic, given that the country’s president (for eternity) is a dead man who has shrines built for him all over

This is debatable. I believe that Hitler also made atheist claims and was very vague about his religion. I think you could probably say the same as was said regarding Stalin. Hitler replaced God with himself. I think that if a Nazi claimed that he was Lutheran or Catholic and stated that he followed the moral dictates of his religion over the will of Hitler then Hitler will have likely imprisoned them or sent them to a concentration camp as he did many protestant ministers and Catholic priests. Nazis obviously put their belief in Hitler before their belief in God.

This is the downside to being labeled as atheists, it permits sophistry like this. Ultimately atheism only tells people what you don’t believe, but what you do believe is really what separates an atheist like Carl Sagan from one like Josef Stalin.

I think we’re stuck with the label but we do need to advocate for something (scientific progress, freedom of thought, equality  under the law) rather than just being against religion. 

Religious people lying?! I don’t believe it!!!

-BobtheRobot

P.S

How do I log in to this thing? Is it just not letting me because my forums login are different from the comments login?

In his book Mein Kompf, Hitler stated that he was a Christian.

Hitchens called North Korea a “necrocracy” since the “Eternal President” was the dead Kim Il Sung. At the time he said that with the “Eternal President” Kim Il Sung and the “Dear Leader” Kim Jong Il they were “one short of a trinity”. Now they’ve got the third.

As an aside, having seen many documentaries about North Korea recently, I can also say that Kim Jong Il’s mother, Kim Jong-su, is also revered as a model “revolutionary” woman, so it seems they also have their Virgin Mary. Anyone calling North Korea nonreligious is delusional.

So what happens if we imagine religion with unlimited power… I guess nobody would recognize Torquemada on a billboard? 

In other news, Hitler ate sugar.

I did… but I’m also not an evangelical Christian American. 😉
It helps being from Europe and “closer” to the country in question.
On the other hand, I probably wouldn’t recognize all the American Presidents just from pictures. Most, but not all.

Social Democratic governments in Scandinavia, just to be precise. 😉
There’s a difference, although many socialist ideas are incorporated and even right wing political parties want to keep most of those.

Also remember that Stalin was a pope of sorts.  He founded the Russian Orthodox Church and some members of that church have attempted to beatify him.  I really hope that they succeed one day.  That would be soooooo awesome!

Am I the only one that thinks that it’s not so much the despot’s atheism that is an issue but that they want to quash religion so that they have no competition in the total and utter control of the populace?

Bertrand Russell, after visiting Russia, called communism an atheist religion,
and roundly condemned it. How can it be confused with ‘freethinking’? 

Stalin had…issues.
After his 1st wife died, he was quoted saying:
“This creature softened my heart of stone. She died and with her died my last warm feelings for humanity.”
Using Atheism as a fail-safe is getting very boring…

Stalin “brought back” priests when he need all help he could get to mobilize Soviet Union’s population to resist Nazi.  Before and soon after that he suppressed established religions as competitors to quasi-religion he created, where he was seen as a demigod. 

I agree with Stev84 – people were conditioned.  My parents and grandparents witnessed masses of people crying when Stalin died.  My mom’s father was a victim of Stalin repression and she did not cry herself, but she was concerned how well country would do without him.

I am also curious how many people here (in US) recognize Stalin.

While Hitchen’s article about women not being funny was a ridiculous generalization, I’m willing to be that he wouldn’t have gotten so much flak if he had written an negative overgeneralization about men (“why are men so lazy” or something like it). If there is an article that over generalizes about women, people assume the author meant all women (even though Hitchens says otherwise in that article). If there is an article that over generalizes about men, people assume that the author meant just some men. Whatever the standard, I wish people would make it the same for both genders.

Or one with the current Pope in his Nazi uniform.

Could you be more specific, please.

Has to disagree with you.  Not sure about Albania, but USSR was overwhelmingly non-religion in tradition sense.  The Russian Orthodox Church was marginalized most of the Soviet Era.  Judaism was effectively banned.

Instead it was either cult of personality (Stalin) until 1953 or “worshiping” Lenin.

The Nazis didn’t do what they did because of religion. If so, every Christian nation would be a racist, fascist state as Germany was certainly no more religious than other European nations or the U.S. at the time. Nazis did what they did because they were Nazis.

Have those that put up the billboard completely forgotten that during WWII Stalin’s SSSR and the USA were staunch allies against Hitler?

I saw a poll once, were a majority of USAmericans now think SSSR and USA were on opposite sides during WWII…

Not that that diminshes Stalin’s genicide of millions of his own people.

Allies yes, but “staunch” is putting it a bit grande maybe. There was considerable friction behind the scenes. The western allies supported the Soviets with materiel, but they also felt used given their enormous losses, especially early on. There were also misgivings over the destruction of convoy PQ17. The Soviets exerted significant political pressure to get the allies to establish a second front in Europe to relieve the pressure on them.

It was an alliance of convenience and the ideological and political differences became apparent as soon as the war was over

I do not know which one you refer to, but the one at the top of the article tries to imply that because Stalin was an Atheist and as a result of his disdain for religion he was a mass murderer, a ridiculous implication, unless he made the claim himself. Just as to say that religion caused the evils of so many who claimed religion drove them to evil acts, unless of course as I said the person committing the atrocities made the claim themselves. As far as the one that science put a man on the moon and religion put planes into buildings, it is the same stupid broad brush. Science also gave us the A-bomb. In other words it is morally neutral and only gives humans additional capabilities that can be used for good or evil. As far as religion many have lived lives of tremendous service through religious motivations, again, it has both positive and negative possibilities in it.

Funny you should bring up Kim Jong Il. Recently, North Korea claimed that the sky turned red when he died, heralding, as it were, his passage from this world. I think we’re at a rare period in history, witnessing the birth of an actual religion.

You mean the way Dexter does?

Mike, Russian Orthodox Church has been around for centuries (along with greek and other Orthodoxies) since splitting with the Roman Catholic Church, largely over the notion of an infallible Pope as the voice of God-based in Rome-lording it over the other bishops. Think 1054 with the seeds of the schism planted some 500 years earlier.   In Russia, the Church has always been a political force and that’s what you are seeing play out in extreme Nationalism and anti-gay fervour … sad. It’s fundamentalism of any kind that is, be definition, unwilling to accept difference. 

Just to be clear – I lived there and witnessed it starting the sixties, my parents lived and thankfully survived through Stalin’s times.

During Stalin’s time there was unannounced, but very real antisemitism, both in anti-religion and racial sense, similar to Nazi Germany.  It ended up in “Case of doctors” almost all of whom were of Jewish decent.  Antisemitic hysteria was  overwhelming.

At Brezhnev’s times especially starting in the seventies, people were persecuted for teaching Judaism and even Hebrew, sometime criminally, sometime by methods of economics, such as losing job, place in queue for apartment or something else.

To the best of my knowledge, until the end of the eighties, there were just two working synagogues, in Moscow and Leningrad.  Both were front for foreign visitors.

I am not sure what passive-aggressively persecution is, but you are right about high percentage of Jews among professionals. However, starting 1976 no Jews were admitted to “Russian Ivy League” schools.  Please remember that in USSR Jews were those who were mark as such in their government ID.

Finally about atheistic vs. secular.  USSR was actively atheistic until Brezhnev times in terms of suppressing traditional organized religions, but never secular – they produced their own quasi-religion based on communism myths.

> Stalin didn’t kill anyone in the name of atheism

This is factually untrue. The term “Atheist Five Year Plan” (атеистическая пятилетка) was the Communist Party’s name for the five-year purge of religion during the 1930’s that resulted in tens of thousands of murders of clergy and believers, explicitly in the name of atheism.