Religious Groups React to Anti-Bullying Legislation Passed in Ontario

I haven’t seen the legislation, but if the anti-bullying strategy is a zero-tolerance or punishment technique then it’s doomed to fail. As good skeptics we should be seeking evidenced-based techniques to combat social ills. Zero-tolerance policies have been repeatedly shown to fail and to unduly affect low-income students and racial minorities.

It would be better to institute a comprehensive program that promotes tolerance, as well as some punishment. We also need to try to educate those who bully as to the consequences for their victims. If a kid says “fag”, we need to explain why that’s offensive and not just kick him out of school.

Of course, the Ontario policy may include this, but it bears emphasizing.

The following seems to be the most ironic statement in the referenced news article…

“‘This legislation proposes that children be indoctrinated to reject their parents’ faith and their parents’ family values, and that’s an affront,’ said Kaplan.”
Indoctrination to reject indoctrination. Who knew? Perhaps they should be more concerned of the students values and less concerned that they may “reject their parents’ faith and their parents’ family values”. Apparently Mr. Kaplan does not comprehend the difference between being indoctrinated and being informed so the students can make their own choices.

Here in the Philippines, we haven’t even had anti discrimination passed yet and already we have these religious assholes from the Catholic church whining on about how they can’t preach their hatred for the LGBT if this legislation passes:

“Imbong said the bill violated religious freedom and the “no prior restraint” accorded by the law to freedom of speech.“The government may not penalize a religious organization for … excluding a person from Church responsibilities, for example, based upon that person’s moral behavior which could include the practice or promotion of homosexuality,” she said.”http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/106981/cbcp-wants-anti-discrimination-bill-cleansed-of-provisions-on-gay-rights

TheG, good question. The cynic in me wants to say they’d respond with “Because it just so happens that religion has a lock on morality, so religious groups would OBVIOUSLY be the ones to speak up about immoral behavior.” Which makes me very angry while at the same time confused to the point of wondering if I had slipped into a parallel universe where stupid people get to vote. But it’s not a parallel universe… 🙁

“Ummm… because gay kids don’t get bullied, right? Or is it possible that
he could be implying that when you make fun of, harass, beat, or torment
a student who has identified as being gay, that’s different than “real”
bullying of an innocent child?”

Ummmm…or maybe because the opposition to bullies doesn’t (or shouldn’t) give a crap about the motivation of the bully.

Beyond the false dichotomy posed by your two rhetorical questions, your implying that the guy is okay with bullying gay kids is base calumny.

Dalton McGuinty just got my vote for the next provincial election. 

Yes. Due to certain circumstances that prevailed at the time the country was founded, Catholic schools were guaranteed public funding if there was enough demand in a jurisdiction (the same applied to Protestant schools where they were in the minority). Fast forward a century and a half and the Protestant schools in Ontario are now secular or multicultural, while the Catholic schools are still Catholic (with full public funding). A few years ago, the leader of the Progressive Conservatives proposed to “amend” this discriminatory legacy by funding any faith school that met the demographical criteria. This solution was not a well-received plan, and he ended up perhaps losing an election because of it. Other provinces, e.g. Newfoundland & Quebec, have already moved to a single* public, secular system.

*well, not really single, because we also have constitutional language guarantees

If they want to discriminate against kids they should darn well pay for
their own schools.  I’d prefer it if they did pay for their own schools.

I wouldn’t. At least this way, the government *can* prevent them from discrimination. Let them have their own schools and those poor kids have even less chance of having their indoctrination countered.

Actually, my ideal would be to mandate that every child attend public school or homeschool with a government approved secular curriculum. That way, kids are ensured an education that is pro-science, pro-diversity, pro-feminist, and anti-bigotry.

Interesting how the religious always see any type of legislation to ensure equal treatment of all people as discrimination against religion….which just points out the basic problem of all religions.  Without the ability to discriminate between “us and them” and exclude those who don’t think like they do, religion has no real point at all and no reason to exist.

Hey, we are funding the catholic schools to, can we do this in Catholic schools (I am an atheist and I would join one of these programs in the Catholic High School I am in).

I’m not a fan of zero tolerance, and luckily this legislation is not zero tolerance. That said, in public schools we’re dealing with children who can’t protect themselves the way adults can (with the law). Because of this I think we need to lean more towards protecting victims than rehabilitating bullies.
Mcguinty himself called expulsion “a last resort”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/expelling-bullies-a-last-resort-mcguinty-says/article2257557/

Yes unfortunately in Ontario the pubic …non religious schools…and the catholic schools …are funded from the public purse.
No other religion is treated that way.

This travesty came about in 1971 due to an outgoing head of the Ontario government Bill Davis deciding to fund catholic schools.
Pressure to do so came from the catholic church at the time.

It’s fundie doublespeak. Just like when they talk about “family values”, “real women”, or “pro-life”. They’re pretending that only they are upholding true Canadian values. The rest of us are fighting for Satan’s army.

That’s a tad simplistic. The Catholic school system already had funding up until grade 10 via the BNA act. So the government was saying “we pay for K-OAC for non-Catholics, but only for K-10 for Catholics”–clearly discriminatory. It was easier to agree to pay for the extra 3 years rather than dismantle the whole system which would require a Constitutional amendment. This happened in 1984, by the way, not ’71.  

I think there was a lot of sex ed related stuff in this bill. Unless I’m mistaken he has a majority -1 and the support of the NDP leadership on this issue.

“That’s a tad simplistic”

Simplistic or not ….BNA Act or not …public money should not fund religious schools of any stripe.

John Tory learned that the hard way.

If any religious organization wishes to set up facilities to teach anything other than “fact based secular subjects” then they should find the money from within that particular faith community and not expect others who hold radically different views to pay to teach their children anything about the catholic faith.

The Vatican is one of the richest financial entities on earth.
Let the Canadian catholics ask mother church to fund there schools.

Canadian society all grown up now and far more sophisticated than when the BNA Act was crafted.
We are a long way distant from ghosts and goblins and things that go bump n the night.

You sound like an ignorant fool. The provisions of the BNA were extremely sophisticated, and, if I might say, part of what gives Canada our distinctive culture. The fathers of Confederation were presented a situation that could have resulted in decades of civil war and likely takeover by the US, and crafted out of it one of the first societies in which minority rights were explicitly protected. It may be time to turn the page and move on so that all publicly funded schools are secular, but it’s rather ridiculous for you to be angry at Bill Davis for not single-handedly passing a Constitutional amendment to do so back in the mid-eighties (when we were all still smarting from the failure to get Quebec on board, btw).

It still amazes me that these people can’t see the difference between believing in their faith and bullying/harassing/oppressing/persecuting others because of that belief.

You don’t like gays?  That’s fine.  You don’t have to be one, you don’t have to be friends with one, and y0u are within your rights to dislike them for whatever reason.  You can even express that in the appropriate situations (for example, a class discussion in civics about gay marriage or something).  However, you are not within your rights to bully, beat up, harass, or otherwise oppress those people.  You can disapprove of the gay kid at school, but you do not get to follow behind them at all times calling them an abomination.  You don’t get to beat him or hold his head in the toilet or throw your empty soda cans at him in the cafeteria.

And even though their unapologetic existence feels somehow like “persecution” to you, it is not.  You are in an overprivileged majority, so stop acting like the fact that a gay or atheist exists openly and unapologetically without hiding it as if it were a shameful venereal disease makes you a victim in any way.

Oh, your religion requires you to harass, bully, beat and persecute gays?  Sorry, you don’t get to do that.  No one’s religious liberties extend to harassing, bullying, beating or persecuting other people.  If we let people engage in violence and persecution just because they believe an invisible man told them  to do so, this world would go up in flames in ten minutes.  It’s a rule that benefits you as much as all your intended targets even if you don’t realize it, and without it you simply couldn’t have a civilized society.

“You sound like an ignorant fool. ”
My but religion can get our knickers in a twist….

A man’s manners are a mirror in which he shows his portrait.N0 matter how slice and dice this subject funding religion from the public purse in the context of 2011 should not be permitted.Dragging in historical argument and silly threats of civil war cannot alter the “current” Canadian society’s constant move to ward secularism and away from superstitions dogma.  The religious should fund there own faiths.

And even then the expulsion is not the last resort.

York University’s Debra Pepler, one of Canada’s leading experts on bullying, said if students are now going to face expulsion, they need “alternative classrooms, alternative schools where there is extensive mental health support — that’s what these youth need.”
They must learn to relate in a positive way, and when students “struggle in math, we give them support and tutoring in math,” she added.
“When they struggle with social and emotional development, it seems to be we should come in with every resource we have.”

and from McGuinty: Expelled students can rehabilitate themselves back into learning.

http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1094683

And even then the expulsion is not the last resort.

York University’s Debra Pepler, one of Canada’s leading experts on bullying, said if students are now going to face expulsion, they need “alternative classrooms, alternative schools where there is extensive mental health support — that’s what these youth need.”
They must learn to relate in a positive way, and when students “struggle in math, we give them support and tutoring in math,” she added.
“When they struggle with social and emotional development, it seems to be we should come in with every resource we have.”

and from McGuinty: Expelled students can rehabilitate themselves back into learning.

http://mobile.thestar.com/mobile/NEWS/article/1094683

All right “almost impossible to write” might be an overstatement. However I more accurate statement would be “almost never written well”. The reason it is a little easier to write for adults is that enforcing the law uses the court system, which is less likely to get tied up for ridiculous stuff, and affords more protections to the accused. If the implementation of an anti bullying law allows school administrators to exerciser their own discretion including permanent expulsion from school, it gives an opportunity for horrible decisions with little recourse. If history serves an example when such an opportunity is available it is likely at some point to occur. But I appreciate your request for a “fucking break”, it seems it could potentially help you chill out a bit.

This homophobia from the Catholic schools has been a problem for the last year.  I think what needs to and eventually will happen is for the provincial government to stop funding Catholic Schools.  

They are the only ones who have put up a fuss.  

This basically takes the cake on how I feel about religion and their hate. Good job Demonhype!