FFRF Puts Up Winter Solstice Message in Wisconsin Capitol Building

I’m currently only one block away from the capital, I may take my son up after class and take a picture with it before we catch the bus home.

Thought it was dickish last year, still think it’s dickish this year.

The holiday season is supposed to be about celebrating. It’s about family, and pretty lights, and charity (and pigging out and Xbox, let’s be honest). How about not being adversarial for once? How about not attacking the beliefs of others for just a teensy little while? You don’t have to agree with them. You can even continue to believe that their beliefs are destructive and irrational, but give it a rest for a few days. A purely positive Solstice message simply has to be within the creative capacity of a group of skeptics, there’s no need to go on about hardening hearts and enslaving minds.

Light some candles, put up a tree, explain various solstice light festivals to your kids, have some pie. You can pick up fighting where you left off on January 2nd, after the hang-over wears off.

You missed the point entirely!  There is NOTHING whatsoever adversarial about this anymore than your preachy and offensive billboards that push YOUR agenda.  Get off your foolish horse of victimization and open your eyes.

Err what’s that now? There’s nothing adversarial about saying that religion “hardens hearts and enslaves minds”? If someone told you atheism “encourages immorality and diminishes worth”, you wouldn’t call that adversarial? I sure would.

And what’s that aboug “my” preachy and offensive billboards pushing “my” agenda? You’re assuming I’m a Christian? You haven’t been around here long, have you?

II forgot to say: Happy wintet solstice everyone!

I see nothing inherently more adversarial about the atheist statements than what’s implicit in Christian symbols associated with Christmas. No one familiar with the meaning of Christian imagery could reasonably regard it as completely non-confrontational.

I might personally be inclined to go completely non-confrontational with the atheist one simply because it’s irrelevant how non-confrontational we are, the simple presence of non-Christian imagery is enough to tick off the “war on Christmas” people. That, in and of itself, makes its own point, while the this probably doesn’t do quite the same.

It’s a subtle difference, but it’s there.  Putting up a nativity or a menorah is not inherently adversarial or negative, especially in an environment like Madison where any group can make a display.  Putting up an FSM or a happy humanist logo, or even a copy of Jefferson’s letters where he discusses the wall between church and state would be a positive display.  That sign is just hard-hearted antagonism–“Your beliefs suck.  Happy holidays!”

Not all Christians, though. Many of us are well aware that it is possible Dec. 25 was chosen to observe the birth of Christ because of the feast of Sol Invictus. The nice parallel imagery of the ‘Unconquered Sun’ and the Risen Christ could be why the early Christians chose that day, and absorbed (or hijacked, if you wish) the customs into their own celebration. It could also be that they simply counted 9 months from the Feast of Annunciation (3/25,) which is a much older Christian feast. There is a great deal of discussion of this, actually.

Anyway, I don’t get my knickers in a knot when someone burns a Yule log to  honor Sol, or Apollo, or just to keep warm… I just like a nice fire. And, as my in-laws run a Christmas (or Yule) tree farm, I would encourage everyone, regardless of creed, to have a nice, live fir tree this year… perhaps two!

I didn’t find it mean or dickish in the least, on the contrary I really found it very inspiring!

 Echoing what Alix said…I grew up in a Presbyterian family.  This study (http://wwrn.org/articles/2999/?&place=united-states&section=presbyterian) came out in 2002 that showed that 57% of the laity and 61% of the clergy don’t believe that Jesus is the exclusive path to heaven.  Plastic Jesus in a manger isn’t threatening anyone with hell.

Maybe it’s because I’m more of a humanist than anything else, but I actually like seeing the holiday displays.  When I drive past my city hall and see a nativity, menorah, and star & cresent (large Muslim population in my town) next to each other I feel like humanity isn’t boned because we can agree to cooperate and celebrate our diversity like that.  That’s a big part of what the holidays are about for me.

Err I’m afraid I don’t quite understand what your comment (which I have no argument with) has to do with whether the sign above is dickish or not.

A possibly relevant point is that I’m an atheist, and opining from that perspective. It would appear this isn’t clear to some people?

Christmas trees are actually a pretty funny thing all by themselves because of this:

Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of
the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. Jeremiah 10:2-4

The World’s Need
by Ella Wheeler Wilcox  (1850-1919)

So many gods
So many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind
While just the art of being kind
is all this sad world needs.

I am the voice of the voiceless
Through me the mute shall speak
’til the deaf world’s ear
be made to hear
the cry of the wordless weak.

From lab, from cage, from kennel,
from slaughterhouses, comes the wail
of my tortured kin 
who proclaim the sin
of the mighty against the frail.

For love is the true religion
And love is the law sublime
And all that is wrought
where love is not
will die with the touch of time.

Oh, shame on the mothers of mortals
Who have not stopped to teach
of the sorrow that lies
in an animal’s eyes; 
the sorrow that has no speech.

Although I’m an atheist, I am close with various deeply religious folks and I would never vaguely suggest that their hearts are universally “hardened.”  Their minds are closed,” sure, but “hearts hardened” sounds ridiculous.

Hi EJC! Just to address your points:

1 – Personally I think its a matter of being nice and also a matter of strategy. I think the vast majority of people, including the majority of atheists, consider the winter holidays a time when good-spirit and brotherhood should prevail. It’s a time to put aside differences and get along. Is there any core objective reason for this? No, just as there is absolutely no objective reason to put candles on a cake and celebrate that the position of the Earth relative to the Sun is approximately what it was when you were born. It’s a tradition, and one celebrated by plenty of people who don’t neccesarily believe a word of the religious myths attached to it.

So in being adversarial at a time most folks think of as the least adversarial time of year, we know we will cause extra offense. Now, that may be justified for a given objective, but what is the objective? Is it to joyfully present ourselves as simply celebrating another way? Is it to reach out to closeted atheists? I happen to think dickish ads, particularly around the holidays, are counterproductive to the general goals of growing the community and combating harmful stereotypes about us.

2. That something is empirically true need not have any bearing on whether or not to mention it, or how you mention it, is dickish. It would be supremely dickish of me to go up to a recent orphan with a big smile on my face and say “You’re parents are dead!”, even if it were 100% factual. That cancer can kill you is a fact, but you don’t have to go about shouting it in a cancer ward. I happen to think that adversarial signs during the holidays are unneccesary and counter-productive, especially since there are a whole lot of purely positive ways you could claim nontheist visibility.

Good eye, M G…

I find it mildly amusing that the sign seems to have a clear proselytizing intent. 😉  @Starskeptic–thanks for posting the full poem. It seems like the FFRF took that first verse a bit out of the context of speaking up for animals’ rights.

Yes. Get rid of that last sentence.

Are you related to Phillip Appleman, the atheist poet?

indeed…

…someone didn’t read the article?

I don’t know. Its not a common last name, but I do see it from time to time. I looked him up and interestingly he and my grandfather both served in the Army Air Corps in WW2.

She wants a “positive Solstice message”,

not none at all.

The idea behind allowing these displays is *purely* about pushing religion. Government should be staying out of pushing religion altogether, these display areas shouldn’t exist.
I would personally focus on a positive message, but because the whole idea of a public display area for religion is ridiculous I’ll accept the approach they took here. I don’t think it’s as effective as a more positive message would be, but it serves its purpose.

I guess coming from the bible belt helps me get most peoples point of this is not as bad as what they do, but why stoop to their level, I like the sign just wording could have been better. Hell last Halloween at a haunted house we were verbally attacked by a group screaming ” turn back put the chirst back in halloween he is the reason for the season.!”   I mean come on. I am tired of hearing “he” is the reason for any season.  Holidays were made by early humans trying to make since of what they didn’t understand.  Yule  is merely hoping to survive the winter, samhien simply remembering and honoring the dead, ostara  yay things coming back to life.  Why can’t we celebrate like early english did go around caroling drinking at every stop , till were passed out in front of the harth?