You’ll Want to Enlarge This Image November 12, 2011

You’ll Want to Enlarge This Image

The text reads:

Dear Evangelical Christians:

God here.

First, I do not exist. The concept of a 13,700,000,000 year old being, capable of creating the entire universe and its billions of galaxies, monitoring simultaneously the thoughts and actions of the 7 billion human beings on this planet is ludicrous. Grow a brain.

Second, if I did, I would have left you a book a little more consistent, timeless and independently verifiable than the collection of Iron Age Middle Eastern mythology you call the Bible. Hell, I bet you cannot tell me one thing about any of its authors, their credibility or their possible ulterior motives, yet you cite them for the most extraordinary of claims.

Thirdly, when I sent my “son” (whatever that means, given that I am god and do not mate) to Earth, he would have visited the Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, Russians, sub-Saharan Africans, Australian Aboriginals, Mongolians, Polynesians, Micronesians, Indonesians and native Americans, not just a few Jews. He would also have exhibited a knowledge of something outside of the Iron Age Middle East.

Fourthly, I would not spend my time hiding, refusing to give any tangible evidence of my existence, and then punish those who are smart enough to draw the natural conclusion that I do not exist by burning them forever. That would make no sense to me, given that I am the one who withheld evidence of my existence in the first place.

Fifth, I would not care who you do or how you “do it.” I really wouldn’t. This would be of no interest to me, given that I can create universes. Oh, the egos.

Sixth, I would have smited all evangelicals and fundamentalists long before this. You people drive me nuts. You are so small minded and yet you speak with such false authority. Many of you still believe in the talking snake nonsense from Genesis. I would kill all of you for that alone and burn you for an afternoon (burning forever is way too barbaric for me to even contemplate).

Seventh, the whole idea of members of one species on one planet surviving their own physical deaths to “be with me” is utter, mind-numbing nonsense. Grow up. You will die. Get over it. I did. Hell, at least you had a life. I never even existed in the first place.

Eighth, I do not read your minds, or “hear your prayers” as you euphemistically call it. There are 7 billion of you. Even if only 10% prayed once a day, that is 700,000,000 prayers. This works out at 8,000 prayers a second — every second of every day. Meanwhile I have to process the 100,000 of you who die every day between heaven and hell. Dwell on the sheer absurdity of that for a moment.

Finally, the only reason you even consider believing in me is because of where you were born. Had you been born in India, you would likely believe in the Hindu gods, if born in Tibet, you would be a Buddhist. Every culture that has ever existed has had its own god(s) and they always seem to favor that particular culture, its hopes, dreams and prejudices. What, do you think we all exist? If not, why only yours?

Look, let’s be honest with ourselves. There is no god. Believing in me was fine when you thought the World was young, flat and simple. Now we know how enormous, old and complex the Universe is.

Move on — get over me. I did.


First seen in a comment written by “Colin” here.

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  • Anonymous

    Maybe the nonexistent first person speaking will shock some into thinking.

    I used to have a problem – various girls kept calling my son – we sound alike. They kept thinking he was playing games and got mad when I said he was not home.  I learned to tell them “This is MY father, ___ is not home”

    Somehow that worked to get them thinking.

  • Justsomedust

    Buddha isn’t a god. But otherwise, God gets it right. But why is this just addressed to evangelical Christians? 

  • BOB TT

    Although I don’t think monitoring 7 billion people would be a stretch for the creator of the universe. :p

  • Lynn Attison

    I had gone along with the myth, just to placate family members and friends…But when I woke up from a coma in the hospital and saw that I was going to have to have my fingers and parts of my feet amputated, I knew I couldn’t pretend anymore.
    Looking at a world where so many suffer and die for no good reason is a true proof that their god is a joke.
    If we want good things to happen, then we need to be a catalyst ourselves. Give all you can to help one another and never expect an invisible “thing” to make anything happen!

  • Newavocation

    Too bad he didn’t expanded on the dying part. Not wanting to die is probably the strongest motivation xians have for believing in a magical father. If anything they should believe in a magical mother instead so they can get milk and cookies when they die.

  • Love it.

  • I wonder why the postscript wasn’t included…?

  • just jami

    i spent my life going to church till i was about 11, then the real world came crashing down. my mother believed in living your life based on “karma”. and it works for the most part, sometimes it takes a while but it does. ask any religion for proof of “god” and they tell you to pray. i need proof and prayer never helped.

  • Ray Higgins

    Should have ended it with the 

    Get down off your cross, build a bridge with the wood and get over it.

  • Drew M.

    To save others the trouble:

    “PS: That kid wasn’t mine, I didn’t touch Mary.”

  • “In Hinduism, he is regarded as one of the ten avatars of God Vishnu. He is also regarded as a god or prophet in other world religions or denominations like the Ahmadiyya Islamic religious movement and the Bahá’í Faith.”

  • Spcglider

    I’ve always looked at things from the perspective opposite of most. That is how an engineer works. A concept is laid before you and it is your job to deconstruct that concept and figure out either how to make it function or explain why it won’t. Religion is no different than any other concept.

  • Dear EVANGELICAL Christians?

    Why not  “Dear Christians”?

  • Anonymous

    I smite. I smote. I would have smitten.

  • Maria Sisson

    I will never understand how something so absurd is actually believed by so many people. Is it because of childhood brainwashing? Hopefully the day will soon come when all this stuff is where it belongs, in the past!

  • You see, the reason religious people think atheists are assholes is crap like this. I’m not looking to argue, but I think a better argument could be made by not including words like “stupid” and “small minded”, you know, because it’s so open-minded to completely trash a person’s belief system. Again, I’d rather avoid confrontation, just felt the need to share.

  • Anonymous

    Really?  He can barely manage to burn toast in a face pattern these days.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t mind an argument.  I see no reason to meekly kowtow to religious privilege.  They are the ones with the ridiculous beliefs.  Let them justify them or be ridiculed for them.

  • Mike Laing

    How do you know what Xians think? You ever looked in on some Christian sites? Atheists are the most hated group in US society. Go to a forum of christians, go! There is venom and unsults.
    Anyways, it IS stupid to evangelize shit that obviously makes no logical sense. It is time to grow the F* up.
    They condemn infants that die to eternal hell. Altruistic, compassionate, and self sacrificing individuals to eternal torment if they don’t worship a cruel, immature picture of a God? That is the height of immoral cruelty. It isn’t just childish and lame, it is fucking sick beyond comprehension.

  • We really don’t need to respect their beliefs; respect has to be earned.

  • That’s ONE of the reasons.

  • Why all that suffering?

    1. Either they haven’t accepted Jesus as their Savior,

    2. Or (if they have), He’s testing their faith.

  • Atoswald

    The reason religious people (particularly evangelicals) think atheists are assholes is because we’re atheists. How we behave seems to have little bearing on their opinions of us.

  • Anonymous

    Err…. if there is no God and religion is a “made up” thing, why do you spend all your time trying to disprove the existence of God?  Just curious. If it is to enlighten the whole of humankind….why are you the chosen one to enlighten everyone else? I don’t know you and have never met you, why should I pay attention to what you say?

  • Voyager529

    Dear Atheists:

    Christ-follower here. You’ll note that I didn’t use the term “Evangelical Christian” as you did, because it’s all but become a pejorative, and not so without warrant. More on that in a bit. I’ll also otherwise ignore the assorted jabs and ad hominem attacks that were contained in the post (on a site labeled “the friendly Athiest”, no less), except to state that I will do my best to respond without being demeaning or derogatory. Also, for much of the responses, where appropriate, I’ll ask you to assume the Biblical account to be accurate for the sake of the point.

    Assuming that God both created the universe and is 13.7 billion years old as your first paragraph seems to imply is a bit of a misnomer. As far as I can tell, God isn’t bound by time, because He created it. Since our finite minds can’t quite comprehend existence that isn’t bound by time, the infinite nature of God inherently doesn’t sit too well in our comprehension, and I’m no exception. However, the fact that a comprehensive understanding of an infinite God cannot fit into my finite mind does not therefore make Him less capable or implausible.

    I have a truly legitimate question about this paragraph: What would constitute “independently verifiable” evidence or a book that God provided? Copper in Israel, the Coriolis Effect, the fact that the earth was spherical (yes, I know the Catholic Church dropped the ball on this one for a bit there), archeological findings, the Dead Sea Scrolls…there is evidence out there, but I’ma go out on a limb and guess that you’ve already got counterpoints to the ones I just listed off the top of my head, and could probably refute basically any other points I provide until it becomes a battle of who’s got better Google/Wikipedia skills. This brings me back to my original question, which I’m perfectly fine remaining rhetorical if desired. What *would* God ultimately have to do in order to convince you of His existence? I’m not asking that to prove myself right, I’m asking it because if the answer is “nothing”, then it’s not a matter of evidence, and thus nullifies the request for independently verifiable evidence.

    As for the writers of the Bible, I’ll absolutely admit that I’d have to head to Wiki to provide any decent amount of information regarding the lives of any of the Bible’s writers but the more famous ones (Paul, David, Solomon, Matthew/Mark/Luke/John), and admittedly off the top of my head I’m unaware of the name or life story of the person who documented the Pentateuch. This is one point that’d be a difficult debate though, since I’m of the persuasion that the 40 people who wrote the Bible under God’s inspiration were actually the ones who wrote it. I’ve heard more than a few people who are of the persuasion that it was written by ordinary men who were after money and/or power. If we can’t agree on who the authors were, then it’s going to be extra difficult to provide information about anything about them.

    The concept of Jesus being the Son of God in terms of offspring is one that I too am not entirely certain about. To be honest, it’s only been a passing thought as opposed to a point of contention with the belief system. During those passing thoughts though, I have wondered if God has, in some form, appeared to other cultures of antiquity, and God simply left the transcription of the Bible to the Jewish culture. This would make some degree of sense in that Jesus’ mission was to fulfill the ceremonial law around which Jews had built their civilization. How that whole system relates to individuals living in the Zhou dynasties is an interesting question, and again, not one I have the answer for. You raise an interesting question regarding whether Jesus spoke about other world cultures and whether it simply wasn’t documented. Given that 38 miracles of Jesus are documented in the Bible over the course of the three years between the wedding feast at Cana and His ascension, that loosely translates to 13 miracles per month, and something tells me that a man who does miracles on a monthly basis isn’t going to get the kind of following that He got. I have no real evidence to support my conjecture, but it stands to reason that if miracles were going undocumented, discussion of North American Natives and Austrailian Aborigines might not have been canonized as well. Again, that doesn’t preclude some sort of visit to them, either.

    My response to your fourth point largely resembles the answer for the second, specifically asking what constitutes sufficient evidence of God’s existence to be convincing, while still allowing for free will and faith. If God were to appear to everyone personally by some means that would be irrevocably life altering, and on the spot ask for a confession of faith, where’s the free will in that? The entire story of humanity and the fall in Genesis is predicated on the fact that God wants us to *choose* to spend eternity with Him. You hit upon one of the most common misunderstandings here, which is that God burns people forever if they believe that God doesn’t exist. The way the Biblical account goes, it says that EVERYONE is headed to hell, by default – God rescues those who accept the offer. Suppose a criminal on death row is on the gurney, has the needles in his arm, and the governor makes the call to pardon him. If the person decides to say “I don’t believe the governor is on the phone, forget it!” and rejects the pardon, is the governor then responsible for the execution?

    Two evenings ago, I had some friends over and we had a campfire. We roasted marshmallows, had some hot dogs, discovered that Cheez Doodles make excellent kindling, and marveled at the fact that my wi-fi router reaches the several hundred foot distance between my house and my fire pit. It was one of the most memorable evenings that my friends and I have had. If I said, “y’know, the fire marshal is full of it. Most of the fire code was made to make firefighting companies and hospitals rich, before indoor plumbing was common, and the marshal himself is only in it for the power trip. I’ma get a baking pan, put some wood in it, and have the campfire in the middle of my living room”, it would have been equally memorable, but for a very different reason – I likely would have burnt my house down. God created sex with the express reasoning of making it an extremely enjoyable experience for everyone involved. As such, it’s got rules about how it works best, and God’s instruction manual reflects that. I’m 25, a guy, and a virgin. I’m sure roughly half of you are thinking something along the lines that I’m that way because my parents said so or because I’m worried about going to hell, and the other half are thinking “You’re an IT consultant, what are the odds of a professional computer technician being a virgin?”. The fact is that my religious affiliation is only a part of the reason why I’m a virgin, and my technical background has nothing to do with it. My ultimate reasoning for it is because I have no desire to get an STD, nor am I ready to be a father, nor do I want to break the heart and possibly ruin a relationship with someone I care about. Sure, condoms and contraception help in the physical cases, but I’ve seen too many broken hearts of my female friends whom I care about deeply to even potentially be a part of such a problem.

    The sixth point, we’ve got some common ground on. Remember earlier I called myself a Christ follower instead of an Evangelical Christian? Yes, fundamentalists get on my nerves, too. I’m not even talking the Westboro Baptist types, I’m talking about the people who take a point I agree with and shove it down the throat of anyone they come into contact with, no matter how relevant or irrelevant it is. That kind of behavior is against the example that Jesus set, and is much closer to what He spent time despising and condemning, than what He came to display. When I was younger, I went on a missions trip that was predominantly tract-distributing, bullhorn-sporting, and plenty of the other activities that didn’t seem to get the message across too well. That’s when I made a decision. I still go on missions trips, but with a very different attitude: service first. If I’m going to take a week out of my life to do something explicitly bearing Christ’s name, I want it to be like Him. I want to feed homeless people, rake yards, clean up graffiti, visit hospitals and LISTEN to the patients who are on their deathbeds, and when ASKED, speak about God. One thing I’ve learned is that talking first usually means talking to someone who probably isn’t listening. If they never ask about God, well then there’s still a homeless person who’s been fed, a yard that has no leaves, a wall that is free of graffiti, and a hospital patient who has been heard, and there’s no shame in that. I fully agree that fundies don’t change lives, and I’d dare say that many of them aren’t honoring God and are doing a disservice to the very name they claim to be representing.

    Number Seven: I’ve asked you to assume the Bible enough, so I’ll return the favor: I’ll assume that Christianity is a complete lie, that God doesn’t exist, and that the personal encounters I’ve had with Him have been residual LSD in the air or something. I’m living my life whereby I put the well-being of other people first, I’m running my business with honesty and integrity, I’m paying my taxes, I’m not doing drugs, I’m not committing crimes, I’m supporting local organizations that help feed poor and homeless people in my area, I’m not breaking hearts and spreading HPV, I’m living with an attitude whereby I am focused on all the wonderful things I do have instead of worrying about the things I don’t, and I’m doing my best to encourage other people to do the same. If there is no afterlife, and I never see my loved ones again, and the best I can hope for is to become tasty food for the worms, then I’m trying to figure out ONE thing I’m missing out on. Again, a genuine question: What is it that my belief system is causing me to oppress SO much that it’s worth foregoing?

    The eighth point goes all the way back to point number one – If we assume that God is infinite, and He created the universe, and He created all of us, and the Bible is His word to us and it tells us all to pray…then I don’t consider it utterly absurd to think that God could handle that kind of volume. To use a computer analogy, how many e-mails get sent around the world every second? Even without spam, I’m sure that it’s more than 8,000 per second. How many phone calls get routed by AT&T every second? I’m sure it’s close. The numbers aren’t that absurd when you consider that human communication can handle that load. I don’t think it’s a stretch of faith to assume that an infinite God could do the same.

    You’re right on the last point in that where I was born had something to do with which faith I was brought up in. I was, in fact, raised in a Christian household. I probably would have a different faith if I was born elsewhere. I know I’m going to lose most – if not all of you who are still left – on this point. Every faith essentially says that it is right and the others are wrong. Fine. I get that. The problem is that since all of the world religions say that, that no, they can’t all be correct. If we follow that course of reason, along with an assumption that, if there is a God, that at least one of the religions must be correct, that the rest were all the inventions of mankind. If again, we loop back to God being infinite, that there will be some sort of foundational difference between the faith that stems directly from God and the others that are derivatives of man’s understanding, then where Christianity fits that bill is the fact that the other faiths involve earning God’s favor, whereas Christianity says that our works do not, and cannot, save us, and thus are dependent on God coming to us to reconcile us to Him.

    Like everyone reading this, I’ve met my fair share of Christians who make me facepalm, who are acting contrary to their belief systems, and all in all give Christians such a bad name that I personally avoid using the term. It’s ironic, because the term Christian was one GIVEN to the early Christians because those who did not believe in Jesus saw how they acted like Christ. For whatever my apology is worth, I’m sorry for all of the Christians who have acted so contrary to the example Jesus set that it’s made “Evangelical Christian” a term that is met with rolled eyes and hard feelings. There are plenty of bad messengers, and “The Church” as an overarching establishment has had its share of completely deserved black eyes, but that doesn’t invalidate the message.


  • The Captain

    I’m going to leave aside the hypocritical  problem that i’m sure you don’t have with calling people who believe in UFO abductions or the flat earth as “stupid” and just focus on this.

    “I’d rather avoid confrontation” Then perhaps you shouldn’t go around calling people “assholes” you self-righteous Douche bag.
    And yes, you did call atheist “assholes”. The “people think your assholes” and then justifying why thing, is just a way to call people assholes while acting like you didn’t. It’s like the non-apology apology, where someone says “I’m sorry if you where offended” (which is not apologizing for your actions but others interpretations of them). It’s coy, stupid, and frankly shows a lack of stones since you want to insult people but do not want to take the responsibility of doing so.

  • The Captain

    You raise way too many points to discuss in a forum post, So I’ll hit just a few.

    How can you think that Paul, David, Solomon, ect… are the actual authors of the books about them? They aren’t even written in the first person for fraks sake! What were they all self-centered douche bag hollywood producers who referred to themselves in the third person? 

    Also,  you seem to define “free will” as “faith without evidence”, those are not the same things. Free will just means I have the ability to choose or act for myself. If “god” where to reveal himself to people, they would still have the “free will” to worship that entity or not. If you want to hold the argument that “god” can not reveal itself to people then it’s not because of “free will” it’s because of “knowledge”. What you are really saying here is that the god you believe in wants people to believe in it “without” any evidence. And yet, a few paragraphs latter you state “the personal encounters I’ve had with Him” So……. I guess you have no free will by your own definition then? 

    Also your views on sex are frankly childish and simplistic. Although I always find it funny that virgins think they are the exerts on sexual relationships and everyone else should listen to them.

  •                                                Sunday Morning Bible Quiz ( Pick one.)

     Jesus spared  Mary Magdalene’s life because:

    1. God loves even prostitutes.

    2.Jesus liked to throw his weight around.

    3. She was giving him freebies.

  • Lynn Attison

    Ed-words, are you serious?

    so anyone who does not follow your god deserves it?
    and I am being tested? Wow, such easy answers….kind of like wishing it away and not facing reality.

    Well, I have been tested enough. I cannot give myself to something so cruel.

    I choose to love and care for all I can, regardless of faith or lack of.

  • I was acting the part of a Christian.


  • Lynn Attison

    Oopsie, red-faced…sorry Ed-words.

    I have heard those words for real recently, so I popped a cork, LOL

    When people tell me god only gives us what we can handle, I show them my amputations. Hard to “handle” without fingers, wink!

    Better to pop a cork in celebration and Cheers, than to pop a cork in frustration, giggle!

  • I’ve got to read these posts more carefully.

    I hereby remove my ‘like”

  • God Disgusts me

    I feel very sorry for ANYONE that still believes in ‘God’

    This isn’t the 15th century anymore. Is you life really that empty that you need this figure looking over you? Get a life and EVOLVE. for the sake of Humanity!!!

  • Anonymous

    Remember that this suffering is not eternal. So, we can apreciate life through it.

  •     Amen.

  • Tweetdriver63

    It’s really a very simple question. If God created the universe, then who created God?

    I know. God just always existed. How is it that Christians can believe that God either always existed or spontaneously came into existence, but it’s impossible for them to believe the universe did?

    Christians go out and do good things, but then give their imaginary god credit for their hard work. I don’t get that at all.

    I was in a car wreck a few years ago. I don’t remember the accident, just the accident report and witness accounts. Another vehicle, going the opposite direction, turned left in front of me as though I wasn’t there. The collision was near-head-on at about 60 mph. I spent 2 days in the hospital with a minor head injury. My vehicle, a 2000 Isuzu Amigo I had just bought 5 hours earlier, was totalled. The vehicle’s safety features worked perfectly. The airbag deployed. The engine went toward the passenger side and down under, as it was designed to do. The seatbelt held me in place. God didn’t design those things, so I didn’t go thanking God I was OK (as so many people would do). Instead, I gave credit where credit was due. I wrote to Isuzu and thanked them for designing all those safety features so well. I included pictures and told them to feel free to use them or me for advertising if they wished.

    Churches go out and provide meals and other necessities for people in need, then they all thank God for what He has provided. Bullshit! God didn’t provide anything. The people of the church, who put their hard-earned money in the collection plates, provided all of that stuff.

  • Mirknudson

    I choose to believe in God. I do appreciate other points of view and to each their own right. My belief in the Lord centers me and helps me to feel balanced. I cannot prove nor rationalize the things that are stated in the Bible, but it doesn’t matter. I hope nobody takes offense to my comment or my trust in God. I guess in the end we all find out the answer to this, so until then I guess I agree to disagree:)

  • Jkm144

    “The eighth point goes all the way back to point number one – If we
    assume that God is infinite, and He created the universe, and He created
    all of us, and the Bible is His word to us and it tells us all to
    pray…then I don’t consider it utterly absurd to think that God could
    handle that kind of volume.”

    Assume, assume, assume. When do the hypotheticals and assumptions stop and the externally consistent arguments start? How is an argument convincing  if the premises it’s built on are assumptions? This post is the typical theo-babble that Christians like to spout when they realize that have no  real foundation for their beliefs. I’m sorry, but you lost me at about point six.

  • Drew M.

    What *would* God ultimately have to do in order to convince you of His existence?

    Prayer induced limb regeneration in humans. Oh, and it has to be repeatable under controlled conditions, with multiple participants.

    Of course, this *really* doesn’t prove god exists, since it could be that a group of friendly, telepathic aliens rolled into town.  But it would be a start and infinitely better than any “proof” we’ve seen to date.

  • You will never find out in the end, if you’re wrong.

    Nor will we, if we’re right.

  • Joey,

    Although I don’t personally believe in a God concept, I am free to entertain the possibility.  For sake of argument, if I do consider an infinite God, several things come to mind.    First is that we would not be able to grasp any meaningful understanding of what (or who) God is.  We would have to adopt an agnostic stance (of not knowing).  Second is that all the scripture about God is total invention by man.  It is just a feeble attempt to put some human flesh on an abstract idea.  In particular, none of the books in the bible can be viewed as anything other than mythology.  Although, when treating them as mythology, you are free to derive moral lessons from them.  To view any of the attributes of God as depicted in the bible as true demeans the very concept of an infinite God.  Think about that.

  • Anonymous

    “What *would* God ultimately have to do in order to convince you of His existence?”

    There are lots of things he could do.

    First:  Instead of the sick, twisted, immoral scape goat of a bloody human sacrifice he used for “Redemption” that is the very basis of Christianity, he could have come up with a system that was logical, moral and accessible to all, even those who never have the chance to hear of Christianity (ie no book needed).  Or simply just forgiven everyone without any conditions what so ever.  You know he’s all-powerful so he could do that.

    Second: Have a universe that does not operate as if he does not exist, unlike what we have now. Everything is explainable, predicable and consistent. This is inconsistent with the idea of “miracles”.  If miracles really did exist (defined as a complete suspension of natural processes) and were well documented, this  would help.  Like re-growing limbs.  like the sun stopping for a day.  But of course all these “miracles” happened not only thousands of years ago, but in the most illiterate part of the world.  Didn’t happen in China where they actually wrote things down.  This god, if he exists, either *wants* as many people to go to hell as possible, or is just retarded.

  • I agree.  I would need two things to believe in an infinite God.

    1.  For Him to perform some nice parlor tricks in the here and now for everybody to evaluate and critically examine.  For example, turn water into wine.  Not just have some stories about that written down long ago. 

    2.  Explain to everyone that the God as depicted in the bible is hogwash.  I can’t even imagine an infinite God being so provencial (and human-like) as the one depicted in the bible. The real God would need to set the record straight. 

  • Anonymous

    “Number Seven: I’ve asked you to assume the Bible enough, so I’ll return
    the favor: I’ll assume that Christianity is a complete lie, that God
    doesn’t exist, and that the personal encounters I’ve had with Him have
    been residual LSD in the air or something. I’m living my life whereby I
    put the well-being of other people first, I’m running my business with
    honesty and integrity, I’m paying my taxes, I’m not doing drugs, I’m not
    committing crimes, I’m supporting local organizations that help feed
    poor and homeless people in my area, I’m not breaking hearts and
    spreading HPV, I’m living with an attitude whereby I am focused on all
    the wonderful things I do have instead of worrying about the things I
    don’t, and I’m doing my best to encourage other people to do the same.
    If there is no afterlife, and I never see my loved ones again, and the
    best I can hope for is to become tasty food for the worms, then I’m
    trying to figure out ONE thing I’m missing out on. Again, a genuine
    question: What is it that my belief system is causing me to oppress SO
    much that it’s worth foregoing?”

    It’s not difficult to look at these from a non-relious stand point. You don’t take drugs because you like your body and want it be able to perform in this life when you need it to. You don’t commit crimes or run your business unethically because people eventually find out (look at Penn State as an example). When they do find out you will be out of business or arrested and will more than likely be spending time in jail. If you don’t believe in an afterlife, you want to be free as much as possible in the only life you do have. You pay your taxes because you like to know there will be a cop/firefighter/paramedic when you need them, and the roads will be well paved/cleared if they have to take you to the hospital. You feed the poor and homeless because you know it’s all too easy to be in their shoes and hope that someone would do the same for you if you did end up there. You don’t break hearts because you value having people as close friends and don’t want to push them away from you.

    I hope this gives some insight into how I, as an atheist, view values and ethics, and hopefully some of the other people here do as well. It’s very easy to live life without falling to a life of crime if you stand back and look at how you are connected to the rest of the world. One of my analogies is this; Religion is like a leash on a dog that can’t control itself and would otherwise go around biting everyone, so it needs to be restrained by something outside of itself. Why can’t you just be the dog that plays well and doesn’t need that leash? That’s the question you should be asking about your need for religion.

  • It’s not about what “we say”, it’s about prevailing reality.

    We spend our time trying to disprove the inane because of what harm those concepts have done to the world. Without playing the religious atrocity card (like the crusades, various genocides, etc.), look at what religion is doing to the world right now.

    We have human beings that are being deprived equality because religion views their sexual-orientation as “icky”. Even though all humans should be treated equally and be afforded the same rights.

    We have people that shout slurs, insults, and rhetoric at women who go into a place that provides abortions, even if they aren’t getting one. Let alone the fact that abortion is as old as mankind and that is is usually a necessary medical procedure.

    We have people that espouse the death of someone as “justice” for themselves taking a life. The Death Penalty is barbaric, cruel, unjust, and vile. Yet religion helps to keep this practice alive. Look at the countries that have the Death Penalty and see what “great” company the United States is in by continuing this archaic practice.

    It isn’t to enlighten the whole of mankind, it’s to show people to think for themselves and not follow blindly the words of men written in bygone eras. Religions benefits are not unique to it, buts it’s lies and fueling of hatred and bigotry are. Religion must be stopped because it is continuing to cause severe inequity in the world, and seeks to destroy those that don’t fall in line with it.

  • To me one of the biggest problems with religion, especially Christianity, is the idea that words written in language by men are somehow supposed to reflect a god.

    When you ask a Muslim about the Koran they’ll say that unless you read it in it’s native-tongue, you miss out on a lot of what it means. That makes sense, languages are hard to translate. Take the German word Schadenfreude, we can define it but unless you know the German language the actual value of that word is somewhat lost.

    This brings me to my point: The Christian god, all-powerful and wise, can create a universe of unfathomable size, scope, and variation, but can’t ingrain his special species with the ability to read god’s word? How hard would it have been?

    I’m talking about a language that is in our genes, our brain, one that doesn’t require literacy or knowledge of a dead language. A language that is clearly the word of a god that all can read. It would have made the Native Americans and all the other cultures that were untouched by Jesus Christ, able to still know of the “one true god”.

    With infinite power come infinite responsibility, and not programming humans with the ability to actually read god’s words is irresponsible. Instead the illiterate had to rely on other to tell them what god said, it allowed mankind to write whatever they wanted, say whatever they wanted, and do whatever they wanted, and just say “God said so”.

    For a being that is supposed to be so smart and awesome he sure missed the ball on that one. Especially if a lowly human could figure that out. A universal language also wouldn’t negate free-will, at least though you’d have unmitigated access to the actual words of the god, instead of what men “interpreted” it as.

    Seriously, a universal language would have been the smart thing to do.

  • Parse

    Voyager, that’s an awful long block of text there, so like The Captain said, I’ll just hit a few points.  That being said, the answers to all your questions are out there, if you’d care to look for them.  

    What *would* God ultimately have to do in order to convince you of His existence? I’m not asking that to prove myself right, I’m asking it because if the answer is “nothing”, then it’s not a matter of evidence, and thus nullifies the request for independently verifiable evidence.

    Personally, whole limb regeneration by prayer, or any actual, reproducable, verifiable ‘faith healing.’ I’m talking about things like curing cancers, broken bones, or such, faster and better beyond the abilities of modern medicine (or the medicine of the foreseeable future).  That being said, what possible evidence could convince you of the absence of God?  If your answer is ‘nothing’, then you’re asking us to be open-minded about your view while staying shut off to ours, and that’s frankly a waste of our time.

    Again, a genuine question: What is it that my belief system is causing me to oppress SO much that it’s worth foregoing?

    The Armor of God

  • Point 1: The Infinite God

    If, as you say and infinite god is “unfathomable”, then trying to say what they’d want, do, or believe is an act of vanity. If a being is so beyond our comprehension then they are not a being we can even actually love, follow, or understand.

    The Universe itself  is also truly unfathomable, it’s size and variety; some cosmic bodies are larger than our own solar-system. That is something that my brain can’t wrap around and yet these objects are tangible and observed. If we can’t truly grasp our own universe, why should we even try to understand the being you claimed made it? How is that even possible?

    Point 2: Proof

    First, god showing himself and asking to be worshiped wouldn’t negate free-will. As Creationists can attest, simply having proof doesn’t change the way you are. Evolution is a fact, the Earth being over 4 billion years old is a fact, yet many choose (read: free-will) to not accept the facts.

    If your god appeared it would be no different. I may “believe” that your god existed, as that would be proof, but I still wouldn’t worship him. Your “free-will” claim is erroneous.

    As for what would constitute irrefutable proof: a universal language. Your god relies on man to spread his word, yet man is flawed and prone to error. The Bible has been altered and changed and reinterpreted countless times. For the “word of god” that seems to be impossible.

    If, however, your god had the foresight to install a universally recognizable language in us, something that even illiterate people could read, that would be proof. And that still wouldn’t negate free-will, because then people could still choose to ignore what they read, or not worship. But having universal access, throughout all of mankinds life-span would have made sense. Instead your god waited until humanity had been around for 198,000 years before bestowing his “word” on us. That would be proof. Words of men, written with Iron-age understanding of the world, is not proof of anything other than the desires of archaic men.

    Point 3: Authors

    No contemporary historian who lived during the supposed age of Christ mentions Jesus, only Christians and only briefly. None of the gospels were even written during Jesus life. All range from around 50 years after his death, to more than 130 years after his death. That is highly sketchy.

    Also, it is common knowledge that at various points people have decided what was and wasn’t the “word of god” and removed various gospels and accounts from the Bible. How can man decide that? Shouldn’t all accounts be included? No actual information from that time exists to support Jesus’s existence. And there is no proof of who actually wrote the Bible. That’s not included the alterations and changes that have been made over time. The Bible is contradictory (which is odd since it’s supposed to be god’s word), full of factual errors (mostly with science), and is highly indicative of the knowledge that the men of the time had, not the knowledge that your god would have had.

    Point 4: Jesus’s Divinity

    Um, I’m pretty sure a prerequisite to being a Christian is believing that he was the son of god. I think that’s kind of the main reason it’s called Christianity and not Judaism. Saying that god “may have” visited other cultures, such as Native Americans and the Aboriginals, is pure conjecture and isn’t even validated by those cultures religious beliefs. That’s you trying to make sense of the irrational.

    Point 5: Sex and Campfires?

    This whole segment made no sense. Your campfire thing was a strawman and not worth addressing.

    Your word choice concerns me, especially feeling the need to randomly mention your profession. Without judgement, it sounds like you have a fear of intimacy and are trying to find ways to defend that fear. I may be wrong, but with how you wrote all of that, it wasn’t for our benefit. 

    The only rules that sex should have are this: no means no, and no sex with underage people.  No sex before marriage is odd and makes no sense. It’s completely arbitrary especially since the Bible actively condones rape and sex-slaves.

    Point 6: Good Works

    You actually answered your own question. Why do you need a religion to do those things? I don’t. The problem is that while your religion espouses “good works” it also espouses bigotry, hate, and the subjugation of women. Just because YOU may do good things that doesn’t mean your religion is good.

    Your religion is like an iceberg, all the good stuff, the ten-percent seen, is all they talk about. How Jesus loved us, how doing good deeds is positive, and all the “charity” work (which usually comes with proselytizing) ignores the ninety-percent hiding under the surface that is the bigotry, violence, hate, misogyny, factual errors, contradictions, translation errors, alterations, so-on-so-forth.

    Good deeds don’t need a maladjusted religion behind them. I do good deeds, I care about humanity and our animal brethren without the need for religion. I don’t pick and choose the “gold nuggets” while ignore the “dirty coal” or the rest of the religion.

    Point 7: The “Right” One

    This argument is full of holes. You’re assuming that how you think a god should work is in fact how a god works. You’re projecting what you want onto your god.  You so easily dissuade other, older, religions in favor of your own unprovable hypothesis.

    Christianity is as likely of being true as any other religion, regardless of how you choose to look at it. Then you have to ask, which version of Christianity. I even doubt you are a Christian, since you question Christ’s divinity (again, something I feel is a required aspect of being Christian).

    There are over 20,000 sects to Christianity. There are thousands of other religions, and thousands of sects to those religions. There are thousands of gods, so monotheistic some polytheistic, and you just brush them by because of how YOU think a god should behave. You yourself say that god is infinite and unfathomable, so isn’t it arrogant of you to assume your interpretation of your god is the only right one when you can’t actually know anything about how that god thinks?

    Just because you think god works that way means nothing to the facts. For every religion one could pick you are looking at roughly 75,000:1 odds on even being correct. Within Christianity your looking at 20,000:1 odds. But you ignore that for your own bias projection onto a being you admit you can’t understand.

    Point 8: The Apology

    Don’t apologize. Chastise them, scorn them, show the world that they are vile people. You apologizing to a bunch of people that don’t care, is vapid. We don’t want an apology from any of you. We want you to stand up against the ones that use Christianity as a tool for inequality, bigotry, and violence.

    Apologies are posturing, actually actions are important.

    When you see a Christian using the Bible for hate, call them out on it.
    When you see a Christian using the Bible to subjugate, call them out on it.

    Oh, wait, you can’t. Because the Bible itself is the problem. The Bible (OT and NT, they both count) is filled with bigotry, calls for violence, inequality, slavery support, and the obvious subjugation of women. So why are you Christian? You seem like a really nice person that follows the religion of a megalomaniac that contradicts himself all the time.

    Also, quick though experiment:

    Yahweh has committed many genocides. Yahweh then has a son who negates those genocides and turns him into a loving god.

    Ignoring the “god-quotient” I ask you this:

    Hitler, who perpetuated only one genocide, in the name of Yahweh, never had a child. If Hitler had a son and then said this son was the savior, negating his genocide and turning him from vengeful (OT) to loving (NT), would you absolve him of his wrongdoings?

    So why do Christians absolve their god genocide just for having a child?

    If you argue to save us, I remind you that Yahweh created sin and has knowledge of all of time and space, knew that when he created sin we would sin and that he would have to martyr his son to allow us to no longer sin, even though he created it. Is that really loving or just manipulation and conning?

  • Glad2bgodless

    “Err…. if there is no God and religion is a “made up” thing, why do you spend all your time trying to disprove the existence of God?  Just curious. ”
    When did you start thinking any of us spend all of our time here?

    I don’t believe in any gods, but lots of other people do. If lots of people believed in leprechauns, would you take a few minutes once in awhile and try to convince them that leprechauns are make-believe?

    “If it is to enlighten the whole of humankind….why are you the chosen one to enlighten everyone else?

    Because I have free will and a laptop.

    “I don’t know you and have never met you, why should I pay attention to what you say?”

    Because I know how to write without using comma splices.

  • absent sway

    I had enough of the “people who disagree with my conclusions about the universe are stupid” attitude back in my pew-warming days.

  • Anonymous

    Oh….for a moment I thought you were being serious.  By the way I spend very little time here, like I do with most blogs because of the inanities.

  • Anonymous

    You make an assumption that I don’t think for myself?  If I consider the human condition my thoughts are that the death penalty is a definite deterrent to people wishing to commit/committing  capital crimes. You blame religion for aberrant behaviour….it isn’t the religion it is the people who commit the abberation in the name of religion….or in the name of anything else for that matter if it isn’t religion. Stopping religion will not solve the problem….harsh punishment will stop the problem….But while we’re on the subject I definitely don’t want my wife and daughter to be subject to Sharia law, so will fight to ensure that doesn’t happen and if I see a guy carrying Serin gas in the underground I’ll brain him.

  • Edmond

    Joey, these are just my own thoughts in reply to what you wrote, and won’t necessarily reflect the opinions of the atheist community at large (though much of it might).  First, I appreciate that you took the time to put all these thoughts together, and to present them in a civil and organized fashion.  I’ll reply to the points I feel most need it, and I’ll refer to what you said by paragraph number.  I’ll skip paragraph 1, since that was mostly introductory, and no real points were made there.  I completely understand that this entire discussion is based on a somewhat comedic attempt of someone posing AS god, so some of the points may be entirely spurious.  I may occasionally come across as “snarky”, but I’ll try to control it.  That’s usually a result of my attempts to restrain my incredulity.
    Paragraph 2
    You said, “As far as I can tell, God isn’t bound by time, because He created it”
    And how do you “tell” this?  How does one go about being able to “tell” what a god created, and what he is bound by?  How do you investigate this?
    Atheists are often frustrated by people who want to tell us all about how god is “infinite” and “incomprehensible”.  If he’s so incomprehensible, then you shouldn’t have any information about him at all. 
    Why is it, whenever someone breaks out questions about the logic of god’s nature, function and origin, that’s when we start seeing adjectives like “mysterious” and “incomprehensible”?  But any other time, when no detailed analysis is at stake, theists are happy to tell us all about exactly what god is like, what he hates, and how he wants us to live our lives?
    Paragraph 3
    An omniscient god should know EXACTLY what it would take to convince an atheist.  It would be difficult to say what evidence could be presented to prove anything supernatural that could not be discounted as a hoax or a hallucination.  God should know how to clear those hurdles, also, however.
     If belief in him is the most important thing to him, and the punishment for not doing so is eternal torture, then it seems rather unethical to give us our 5 senses, our skills in logic and critical thinking, and then punish us for using them.
    Paragraph 4
    Whatever the motivations of the authors of the bible were, their primary claim to fame is that they CLAIM to have been inspired by god.  How do we verify that they weren’t just making that up?  Not everyone who made such claims were guaranteed a position in the bible, after all.  That decision was made by kings and popes, hundreds of years after the original writings.  How did THEY know who to include and who to omit?  How can we be sure that everyone that was included was REALLY inspired by god?  How do we verify that everyone that was omitted WASN’T inspired?
    Paragraph 5
    It hardly seems amazing that the primitive people of the age were easily impressed by stories about “miracles”, but this doesn’t mean they happened.  Again, the books of the bible were judiciously selected centuries later, by people who had their own agendas.  It would not have been too difficult for them to “pad” the bible, as it were, to include as many miracles for Jesus as they could.
    It’s never impressed me much that Christianity originated and developed in one little corner of the world, and it’s scriptural text provides historical background only for that same little corner.  It would’ve gone a long way to adding to its credibility if the bible had been full of factual information about the entire world (impossible to obtain in its day), rather than exactly what you’d expect if it were written by locals with only a localized worldview.
    Paragraph 6
    A governor on the phone could actually be HEARD.  Someone else can pick up the receiver and have a separate conversation, with information that can be independently verified by others.  This is not the same as telling us that there’s an invisible, inaudible god who can’t talk to us directly, but only communicates through a priest or an ancient book.
    Obviously, “choosing” to accept god’s offer for salvation is predicated on believing in his existence.  If he has not provided enough evidence to convince someone of that, then where does that leave them in accepting his offer?  I can hardly agree to do something for someone if I don’t believe they exist.
     But as for free will, how does that exist in tandem with a god’s omniscience?  You speak of the “story” of humanity, but every page in such a story, every word, would already be known from beginning to end by an omniscient being.  Not a single action by any human could ever deviate from that story.  All of history would essentially be a movie script that god has memorized.  We could never do anything unexpected, or unscripted.  How does that describe free will?  Free will is only possible if NO ONE knows the future.  Otherwise, we are nothing but puppets.
     But if a god made himself known, proving himself beyond a shadow of a doubt, that would not violate free will.  Any being would still be free to choose NOT to worship him.
    Paragraph 7
    Those of us who don’t believe in gods, also don’t believe that they have laid out any “rules”, about sex or anything else.  This isn’t about questioning the fire marshall’s rules, it’s about questioning whether there even IS a fire marshall.  As a gay man, I live in direct conflict with your god’s rules, but there’s no fire in my living room.  I have no STD’s, I suffer no ill effect from having sex in a way that differs from the “approved” method.  If sex is supposed to be ”an extremely enjoyable experience for everyone involved” then where does that leave gay people?  Is it justifiable for us to be punished, by a god OR by our fellow humans, simply because we enjoy it differently?  We are not going to push the human race to extinction, just because we aren’t likely to procreate.  If we can’t even establish with any certainly who the rule-maker is, then why does one group get to accuse another of breaking them?
    Paragraph 8
    I don’t have much argument with this one.  It’s certainly admirable of you to refrain from proselytizing when it isn’t asked for.  Although, when you DO tell people about god, are you SURE of the information you’re giving them?  Considering all the above points, isn’t there a possibility that you’re actually misleading people, by giving them false speculations in the guise of truth?  Isn’t enough to be helping people just for the sake of improving the community, without it being tied to any mythology?
    This does illustrate, however, the propensity for Christians to point at one-another claiming, “You’re not a REAL™ Christian!”  Who are the rest of us supposed to believe?  Maybe the WBC has it right.  THEY certainly think they do.
    Paragraph 9
    Those are largely good behaviors (although a few do not need to be repressed just for their own sake), and a good way to live your life.  However, if I can play the “gay” card again, I might be in a unique position to tell you what your belief system is leading you to oppress.  A secular, humanistic approach to life will also help you uphold all of those values, without the widespread Christian need to vilify gay people.   YOU may not be actively oppressing anyone, but the VAST BULK of Christianity does.  Are they all correct to do so?
    Paragraph 10
    It’s funny, but the fact that you can describe humanity’s ability to coordinate all those emails and phone calls through technology, really seems to take the wind out of the claim that a god is needed for any of it.  If humans are that sophisticated, then a god doing the same job is hardly amazing, especially if he’s letting through all the disease, famine, and disasters.  I wonder what the percentage comparison is of undeliverable emails and dropped calls, compared with prayers that go unanswered?
    Paragraph 11
    It sounds like you’re putting the burden of our salvation on god, here, which would mean that if we aren’t saved, it’s HIS fault for not “coming to us”.  I doubt that’s what you mean, so maybe I’ll skip that point.
     But the way I see it, even if there is a god, we still aren’t justified in assuming that ANY world religion is correct.  They could still ALL be wrong, and the god is up there waiting for someone to hit on the truth.  The fact that there ARE so many religions and scriptures on the planet only tells me that humans have a knack for creating them.  I’ve yet to see anything that proves that any of them are true.  I can’t think of any reason which demonstrates that Christianity is the correct one.
    Paragraph 12
    That depends on what the message is.  Every Christian seems to have their own take on the matter, and their own version of the message.  This discontinuity between believers does little for the credibility of all of them.  And, if the message has anything to do with humans being fundamentally flawed from birth, I don’t find that to be very compelling.  It’s wrong to blame anyone for the crimes of someone else, like an ancestor.  It doesn’t make sense that a perfect god would create an imperfect person, and then blame THEM for it.  It’s not a sound judicial practice to allow one person to take the punishment for another (let alone all of humanity).  None of this is logical.  It’s great that a god would want us to help one-another, and to live peacefully and cooperatively, but I really think humans are capable of figuring out for themselves that these are good goals.  But rather than draw people together, religion seems to divide them, and turn people into enemies.  We have a whole PLANET full of people at each other’s throats over whose god is the real one.  A god who would allow THAT to happen to his message is either incompetent or non-existent.

  • Glad2bgodless

    “Oh….for a moment I thought you were being serious.”
    Glad to hear that you thought for a moment.”By the way I spend very little time here, like I do with most blogs because of the inanities.”

    Spend as much or as little time here as you please. I’m not keeping track.

  • Haileylpatrick

    HEY ARGUMENTATIVE HYPOCRITICAL “CHRISTIANS”, AREN’T YOU SUPPOSED TO BE “TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK”  …. im sorry but if you TRULY were a christian you would ONLY be speaking in love and not being stuck up, snobby, naive, judgemental bible thumpers.  … Which only forces me to believe even further your god does not exsist, because you are the first to jump on someone, or judge someone on their life, and how they live.. BUT HOW DARE SOMEONE ever cross you- a “christian” and because you are “saved” that gives you a WONDERFUL excuse to walk around condemning others with “scripture” …….give me a break. get a life. oh and guess what, your have just as many secrets as any other human.

  • Hemant Matata, I find this little ‘creedo’ you’ve posted to be dangerously atheist and not very friendly.  The fact that they let you spread the atheist religion in our nation’s schools is dangerous and not even Constitutional.  How can one be friendly if they do not have God in their heart?

  • Dwendt44

    We aren’t, nor do we need to, try to “prove” a god, or particularly YOUR god exists.

    You can’t prove a negative.  It’s up to those that claim a god, particularly YOUR god exists to ‘PROVE IT’.

    That’s how a logical rational question works. I can’t prove that unicorns don’t exist,  and I shouldn’t have to either.

    Much, if not most, of the bible was copied from other older religions. There is evidence that it’s at least third hand ‘beliefs’ being re-cycled.

    Why is THIS version of beliefs any more likely to be  some how true while those older religions that the bible was based on are ‘wrong’?

  • Anonymous

    Atheism isn’t a religion.  What has being friendly got to do with gods?

  • This little ‘unfriendly’ rant that Hemant posted proves that atheists cannot love.  If you do not have Christ written in your heart, you cannot really love anyone and that includes yourself.  I find the smug tone of Hemant very offensive and divisive.  This is the type of oppressive nonsense you atheists are posting up against Christians and you’re further abusing laws in this country, trying to litigate atheism in such a way to ultimately destroy all religions.  You are oppressing religion.

  • Being agnostic is the first step toward discovering inner-faith.  I wish the best for you, so in the end of days you will not find yourself burning in Hell with true atheists.

  • Anonymous

    if the death penalty is a definite deterrent to people committing capital crimes then why do people still commit capital crimes?

    Stopping religion may not stop the problem of people doing bad things but it will give them one less excuse.  It is a big excuse as well for a lot of really bad stuff.

  • Glad2bgodless

    Wow, good job stringing together a bunch of silly and unsupported assertions. Are you an example of what it looks like when someone has “Christ written in your heart”?

  • You Are The Stereotype

    Wow. *This* is the “friendly” atheist blog? If these are the friendly atheists, the regular ones must be downright homicidal!

    You guys are a trip.  Holy echo chamber, Batman!

  • Glad2bgodless

    Bruise easily?

  • Jack Gould

    You hypocritical fools spout things like:  “God here.
    First, I do not exist. The concept of a 13,700,000,000 year old being, capable of creating the entire universe and its billions of galaxies, monitoring simultaneously the thoughts and actions of the 7 billion human beings on this planet is ludicrous. Grow a brain.” and circle jerk each other in glee as you taunt people who follow religion.  How is this progressive or respect?  Just as much as you got an offense and reaction when I suggested you will burn in hell, Hemant’s little passage above ‘from God’ is equally disastrous and offensive. 

  • Parse

    I find it amusing that you start off complaining about this site being ‘not very friendly’, then turn about and tell us that:
     – atheists cannot love
     – you need christ to love anybody
     – we circle jerk each other in glee
     – we’ll burn in hell

    I’m sure you have a reason why you aren’t turning the other cheek, or treating others the way you want to be treated.  After all, it’s not like Jesus suggested you do either of those things.

    (By the way, you said, “If you do not have Christ written in your heart, you cannot really love anyone and that includes yourself.”  Do you say that to Jews or Muslims as well, or just atheists?  Because last I checked, they don’t have Christ written in their hearts, either.)

  • Anonymous

    It proves nothing of the sort, you strange little man.   What on earth does it mean to “have Christ written in your heart” anyway?  It sounds like complete nonsense to me.

    Anyway I’m not going to waste much time on you other than to point you to some advice from a magic book I once read.  Matthew 7:3 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

    To make it plain, you accuse Hemant of being unfriendly, offensive and abusive of the law of the land while coming to his web site and spouting nonsense about the Constitution, offending people with your lies and calling us names.  Well done, you’re a stereotype.  You must be so proud.

  • Benjamin Ledford

    The challenges and objections in the post and in the comments have all been addressed time and again by very scholarly people.  I think we all know that a comment forum is not a likely place to find credible information or cool well-reasoned arguments, so I’d suggest that if you’re honestly interested in getting to the bottom of these issues you visit, which is authored by one of today’s leading philosophers, or familiarize yourself with the work of Alvin Plantinga, who has written extensively on many areas in the philosophy of religion using meticulous logic and almost excruciating care and thoroughness.  If that is demanding too much, perhaps listen to the Bahnsen-Stein debate, which can be easily found online and will only take a couple hours of your time.

    Hopefully the familiarity with these resources will serve to advance the discussion and perhaps help it to rise above the level of the blogosphere.

  • Mart

    You lasted to point six? Well done. At point one there was one great big assumption and although I carried on for a bit… hey no harm in trying to understand… this really is a typical example of trying to justify fiction. All very pleasant and nice but pointless.

  • Mart

    I think you’ll find you are the hypocritical fool Jack. You bemoan how nasty this blog is yet get all unpleasant to all and sundry, even some extremely nice people. You do not have the right not to be offended nor to act like a twat without criticism.

  • Mart

    Why if you are so secure in your faith should you care what the heathen unbeliever has to say? Atheists blog as a response to all the Christian bullshit rather than on some sort of crusade. That’s your bag. Do not judge others by your own small minded criteria. You really don’t have to pay any atention, so why are you?

  • Eas239

    Same here. The beliefs may be unwarranted and even stupid, but not all of the people holding them are.

  • Callmikenow

    After posting the above article on myFB account, a friend posted:  A NON-BELIEVER NOW?  My response:No.   I’m a believer. I believe that the universe is VASTLY more immense and unfathomable than my meager religious roots taught me. I believe that the god I was taught to believe in as a child and young adult would have to be a tiny limited being to create all of this and yet limit his salvation to a very few, condemning the rest to eternal torment and agony. I believe that any omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being who could expose his subjects to the suffering that humanity must endure, has endured, and continues to endure is not worthy of the name God, much less “merciful God”.. One need only step back from this tiny speck of a planet to see that it is only by chance that any of us are born into Christianity or have it so close to us. If you had been born in India, you would be Hindu. If you were born in Arabia, a Muslim. In China, a Buddhist or atheist. Yet Jesus is the only way? I believe that the Old Testament god, who is now the New Testament god is a petulant, petty egomaniac and therefore is in the image of his Creator … man. Why would this being create humans too intelligent to believe in fairy tales and then insist that they do so? So I am a believer. Just not in the god of the Bible.

  • Onlytheoneband

    If all of a sudden 90% of the human population was vaporized and a loud voice that all remaining people could understand said “This was done so the earth can heal!”  That would make me believe. 

  • Anonymous

    Where in this blog have I said that I’m a Christian or religious at all? Rule no 3 of Toltec wisdom “Don’t make assumptions”. My curiosity is why are you so vociferously anti Religion/Christianity. You don’t know my criteria and make an assumption once again about how my mind works. I’m afraid you’re the fool. For the record I am ambivalent about religious or non religious people preferring to choose associations based on myriad other reasons.

  • Glad2bgodless

    If you don’t want to be misunderstood, then don’t be so coy. Are you a Christian? Are you religious at all? What, exactly, are your “criteria”?  Criteria for what?   

    Saying you “choose associations based on myriad other reasons” doesn’t say anything about what your beliefs are. Why be so evasive? Is it that hard for you to state and support your beliefs?

  • Tyler

    I personally am fluent in satire.

  • Urban

    …I’m assuming the author is targetting evangelical christians because they like to preach the absurdity of their religion, and are typically obnoxious, judgemental hypocrites. In contrast, quiet christians who keep their beliefs and judgements to themselves, who actually use the bible as a moral compass rather than an absolute historical account of the universe, and who are smart and empathetic enough to see the many limitations of the bible as an absolute quide to morals (google “homosexuality and the bible”), are typically great people despite having an imaginary friend in the clouds.  Remember we should have the freedom to believe in whatever gives our lives a deeper meaning, provided those beliefs don’t affect anyone else (ie in government policy making, funding decisions, treatment of others, etc).

  • Bill

    if there were no God, then this would mean, that we and everything are created out of nothing…. and that life is meaningless…. to exist, thinking we are on our own, would be a very lonely and fearful existance, to have faith, something is guiding us, directing and protecting us, makes life much simpler,knowing that all we can do, is try to be our best and live according to spiritual (positive principles), accepting whatever happens beyound this is the way it is suspose to be, I aint no saint, in fact I’m very lustful, however, I’ve been free of drugs and alcohol for 11 yrs…, this time, and having faith is the greatest gift, I’ve been given

  • Glad2bgodless

    How would the existence of any god or gods either add to or subtract from the meaning of life? What makes you think that either we or the universe require a creator? We do not require any gods in order to try our best.

  • Anonymous

    Or something else.  You create a false dichotomy.

  • Respect IS earned…BUT ..Courtesy is given

  • M J Shepherd

    I have no idea why you felt you had to type that out if it’s a given.

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