How Do You Stop a Graduation Prayer at a Public University?

And what about atheistic Buddhists?

“Non-denominational” prayer is nonsense. It’s all about not pitting one Christian sect against another. And to some extent it also works for most other big religions. But it still requires a shared belief in the supernatural

What’s ridiculous is that if they just remove the word “God,” and change a few small clauses, the whole thing actually makes for a really nice statement to give graduates.

But it’s a battle not for the actual message, but for the pride of people who throw the magicks around.

WTF?!?  The first words in that prayer are “Oh God”, and it is not a religious invocation?!?

Sheesh – you’d think folks at a real university would be educated.

Well, one could shout “Allah”, or “Flying Spaghetti Monster” every time the word “God” is uttered. “God” with a capital G, and without a definite article, has always been interpreted to refer to the Christian God and no other (except perhaps the Jewish god, which Christians mistakenly believe is the same as theirs). So it’s sectarian by definition. If they had said “a god”, they might have more of a case to make. But “God”? without a “a”? No way, Jose.

The references and giving thanks to god in every sentence actually cheapen the whole thing and distract from the message

yeah, that’s not non-denominational. “Amen” is as far as I know a pretty distinct Christian clause.How about they let an atheist lead the non-denominational  meditation?

http://www.diamondbackonline.com/2.2792/letters-to-the-editor-1.277104

Above is the link to a letter to the editor I wrote in 2009 arguing against a prayer at my college graduation at the University of Maryland. I would write back and cite the Engele vs Vitale case. UGA is a state school so this case provides a fairly strong basis for arguing against the prayer. You can also check out Wallace v. Jaffree and Santa Fe ISD v. Doe.

You linked back to this blog entry. 🙂

They could not participate.  Silent, non violent protest has a wonderful and reasonably successful.  You do need mass support though and a clear issue to oppose and actions that should be taken in opposition.  If the graduation prayer involves standing and joining in the prayer then sit silently throughout it.  Sit together in a group (so that you’ll get noticed) and let people know in advance that this is your intended action

You are saying “there is nothing I can do to stop you insulting me with your prayer but in no way am I going to support it.”  Once the actual graduation begins you should obviously be as supportive of the graduates as the rest of the school if not more supportive.  It isn’t about disrupting the praise that students deserve but about refusing to be bullied by theists demanding their privilege.

The way I understand it, the person leading the prayer just goes right into it while everyone’s seated. Not participating really wouldn’t look any different than participating (unless someone’s checking for who’s bowing their head).

Fixed.

How about a reading of Oh the Places You’ll Go!

This is disappointing to read, as a UGA alum.  Would it help for me to write a letter to the Terry College of Business?  I’m definitely going to let me nephew know – he’d fit in well with the UGAtheists, but is currently going through that Freshman, not figuring out where he fits in, in Athens, stage.

I like this idea. It always exposes “tradition” and “heritage” for what they are.

Yes, it could help, because alumni are very often the most dedicated donors to universities. Any college of business knows that money talks. Spell out your reasons for your disappointment, worry about possible Constitutional lawsuits, and hint at reconsidering the donation you were contemplating.

It’s “part of the University of Georgia’s heritage” – argument from tradition

“college age students are less impressionable” – misses the argument. This is about inclusion, not the impressionable

“encourage reflection and meditation” – of what? Someone else’s worldview?

Christianity is a persecuted minority.  Teh liberalz and the ACLU have infiltrated the SCOTUS and want to make it illegal to pray in your own home.  They’re already trying to make it illegal to display crosses where anyone might possibly get offended by seeing them.  Churches will have to take down their crosses.  Kids already can’t wear crosses to school.  The only solution is for those few truly God Fearing Patriotic Americans who remain to PRAISE GOD at every opportunity they get!  Democrats HATE Freedom and the Constitution!

(this is only a slight paraphrase/mashup of some recent online comments I’ve come across)

“…does not proselytize in favor of religious beliefs…”

I think I’d respond back to the administration that the prayer does proselytize in favor of religious belief.  I’d also send them an edited version of their invocation that has been rewritten to remove references to god, but otherwise follows their original wording as closely as possible.  Instead of “we are thankful for professors..” etc, it can read “we thank the professors…”  Much more appropriate.

Airhorns came to my mind, but that might be just a tad bit over the top.

Exactly.  Do something to stand out and make your objections known without being a dick.

Hit them where it’ll hurt them:

“Dear University of Georgia, I have $100 in disposable income I would otherwise donate to you. However, you maintain an unnecessary and divisive practice of including prayer at University events such as graduation, which I find inappropriate and contrary to the spirit if not the letter of the Constitution of the United States.

“I would have no problem with a moment of silence in place of invocations; those in attendance who wish to pray could do so, and the others need not feel compelled or pressured to subscribe to beliefs they do not share. At such time in the future if the University changes its practices and demonstrates respect for all of its students and alumni, including those who like myself do not believe in the supernatural, I will be pleased to include the University of Georgia in my philanthropic activities.

“Until then, my charitable donations will go the Secular Student Alliance. Thank you for your attention to this issue.”

I’d rather be a dick than break the law. I want every student to have a megaphone and shout “separate church and state!” It rhymes.

Bring an air horn, sound it after every god reference.

Concerned, not considered.  I should start reading over these comments before sending…

May their sights be set not only on advancing their own needs and
desires, but the needs of all peoples with whom we share this
ever-shrinking planet.

Someone needs to write them and tell them that if they actually mean that part, they should pay attention to the bit where the needs of Hindus require the invocation of Ganesha before the start of any venture. And the bit where the needs of Wiccans require the invocation of the Goddess as well as the God. And the bit where…add a few more such examples and close up with ‘and the needs of atheists and other nonreligious folk require the recognition that there are no gods. So either invoke all the relevant deities in your invocation and then assert that none of them exist, or invoke no deities at all.’…I just got drafted, didn’t I.

Or maybe chant the bible verse that talks about not praying in public.

Congratulations to the UGAtheists.  When I got my MA there in 1974, there is no way that anybody would have even raised the question.  Progress is being made.

There is, and has always been, an enormous controversy over separation of church and state in this nation. And even for those who do believe in separation of church and state (as I do), there is the issue of how far that idea extends. Some argue that all this means, or should mean, that the state does not sponsor religion, or allow religious dogma to influence state affairs. The problem is that religion (and the state, technically speaking) can be applied a plethora of ways . Just as any mention or symbol of a higher deity can be considered religious, so too any entity that is mildly affliated  with the government can be considered the state. So how far should this be taken? What did the founders intend (and does it even matter)?

Though I am certain none of the leaders of the Revolutionary Generation were devoutly religious, I am equally certain that none intended to form a “godless” state. Ben Franklin was enormously skeptical of religion, and yet he suggested that members of congress open each session with prayer. Likewise, Thomas Paine was a skeptic (some go so far as to claim him an atheist), but this did not stop him from employing an evangelical approach in Common Sense. There are other examples that could be cited of Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Adams, and George Washington; all of whom seemingly contradicted the principle of this separation (or at least when viewed in a modern context).

I am a huge fan of secularism. I am also a fan of the constitiution. The problem to me seems to be whether eliminating all religious symbols and references from the public sphere in the name of SOCAS might actually inhibit others’ right to express their religion. . The refreshing writings that are usually published on this blog are like a breath of fresh air in a community that overflows with fundamentalists and has more churches than bars (perhaps a slight hyperbole, but I’m not far off). Despite this, I can’t shake the feeling that somehow we are going too far, and in asserting our rights to deny religion, are trying to take away others’ rights to express it anywhere other than their own homes or church. And that, I do not believe, makes us any better than fundamentalists like David Barton, who has spent years trying to convince people that our government was never designed to even have a separation of church and state, or even elected officials outside the Christian faith.

Atheists should be accepted and respected, but so should the religious. Trying to maintain this balance of freedom of expression and non-coercion can be difficult, but moderation (or compromise for that matter) never is. If people want to pray in schools, or in public buildings, let them. As long as it isn’t mandatory, done on taxpayers’ dime, and no one is forcing anyone to do anything, it should be alright. The uproar in his most recent blog post disturbs me, because it is all over the simple fact a nonsectarian prayer was said at UGA’s graduation ceremony. Who cares? Was anyone forcing anyone else to sit through it? No. Was anyone forcing anyone to bow their heads or pray along? No. If it makes people uncomfortable, they are free to leave. No one will deny them their degree if they refuse to listen to a short prayer. I think it would be prudent to choose our battles more wisely. 

Jon, did you get any response back?

I’m a grad student who just attended his brother’s undergrad graduation last year, and I was quite surprised by the religious ‘invocation’. UMD is a secular school, and public prayer shouldn’t be any part of the graduation ceremony.

A number of my grad student friends want to badger the school about this for a few years before we have to graduate, and it would be useful to know if any officials responded to your letter in the diamondback.

And yet countries that don’t have such a strict separation of church and state – some in fact with state religions – have much less religion in the public. Their Christians don’t need to pray at every opportunity and at every single public function or ceremony, but they don’t feel restricted in their freedom. How come?

You said “as long as it isn’t mandatory”. Well, if you’re standing in a crowd and have someone pray in front of you, participation is in fact mandatory. And standing in silence – maybe even forced to bow your head “out of respect” (as it frequently happens in the military) – is participation. How is that respectful of the non-religious?

The simple fact is that prayer is completely unnecessary at such an occasion. Just have a speech. Much more meaningful and interesting

Well the argument is

 such practices as the designation of “In God We Trust” as our national motto, or the references to God contained in the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag can best be understood, in Dean Rostow’s apt phrase, as a form a “ceremonial deism,” 24 protected from Establishment Clause scrutiny chiefly because they have lost through rote repetition any significant religious content

(IANAL but I think those were Justice Brennan’s words dissenting (in a case where the SCOTUS allowed for a city to have a creche in the holiday display)

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=465&invol=668
The top of that case is interesting reading as well.

e.g.

 The concept of a “wall” of separation between church and state is a useful metaphor but is not an accurate description of the practical aspects of the relationship that in fact exists. The Constitution does not require complete separation of church and state; it affirmatively mandates accommodation, not merely tolerance, of all religions, and forbids hostility toward any. Anything less would require the “callous indifference,”

Make that a ‘clown horn’ ~ honkle-honkle 🙂

The supreme court can be wrong, and are if they do not support the STRICT separation of church and state.  The problem is that some justices can’t separate their beliefs from the needs of the state either.  The state must be fair and impartial to all beliefs or lack of beliefs, so it must never put any symbols up that ascribe to any one religion because that is discrimination everywhere and anytime it is done.  NO exceptions..

Only from your point of view. Plenty of atheists or people with different religions find having to stand up and listen to prayer highly offensive and insulting. It’s also insulting to have your own academic accomplishments be attributed to some deity

People are being forced to be there and listen. Participation simply isn’t voluntary. Please stop lying about that. It’s not like they have an optional church service before the actual graduation. It’s a prayer or at least a highly religious speech during the graduation ceremony

People often decorate the tops of their caps. That would be a nice place for statements, especially if a group could work together like the shirtless football fans that spell out D-A-W-G-S.