Christian Pastor Can’t Believe Anyone Would ‘Celebrate’ Porn

Dear Pastor,

You could exchange “religion” for “porn” on most of those statements, and you wouldn’t be completely wrong.

Anything carried to excess is bad for you – even praying, giving money to a  church/mosque/temple/synagogue and celibacy!

What about the issue surrounding the degradation of the female form within porn?  It is my view that society’s increased tolerance of gratuitous sexual images of women in the media has led to a backward view of breastfeeding.  Because breasts are seen as ‘taboo’, thanks to porn, lads mags – and religious hang ups about sex – the sight of a woman feeding her baby with one of these breasts is a cause of intense embarrassment, and even outrage for some people.

I agree that sex needs to be celebrated, but I would be very careful about celebrating something that I know can become an addiction.  In a similar way, I am sceptical about society’s celebration of drinking alcohol, based on the fact that it ruins many people’s lives through addiction.

I also say that if we’re to celebrate porn and sex in ALL it’s forms, we should celebrate sex within marriage also.  Christians/Muslims get this massively wrong when they focus on how not to have sex before you get married, and forget to celebrate how friggin’ amazing sex is after you’ve made your vows!  The Bible has a whole book that celebrates the beauty and ecstasy of sex.  For example, this can only be about one thing:  “My beloved stretched his hand through the opening and my heart was moved for him” – and yet, those of a religious persuasion tend to skirt around the blatant sexual references and focus instead on what not to do.

I take issue with your use of the word  “confines”, as it alludes to the belief that sex within marriage is restrictive in some way.  I also take issue with the fact that you criticise those who say ‘porn is evil’, but not the ‘porn is great’ brigade.  You did say that both views are warped, but only addressed one side.  What would your thoughts be regarding those who hold such views?

It’s worth mentioning that these people seem to want to redefine “porn” in a very broad way.  For example, in this article:

 http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/21/can-the-burgeoning-christian-crusade-against-pornography-bear-fruit/?hpt=hp_c2

these lines jumped out at me: “It began to seem very evident to me that secular therapy does not work as effectively for Christians,” he said. “And that’s because the secular world … to us as Christians, seems less moral. Sex is everywhere in secular society – television, film, billboards. It’s just so much a part of life that it is excused.”

“Christian media outlets like Today’s Christian Woman have recently run stories about women consuming porn, often theorizing that the habit starts with explicit romance novels.”

“It’s like a gateway drug,” he says. “You can’t just have a little look. If you look at porn, you’ve already given your heart and spirit away to someone who isn’t your wife.”

To me, the way they talk about porn suggests that they are trying to redefine it, so that any sexual content is porn, and thus dangerous (see all our impressive statistics showing how deadly it is!).  The next probable step, then, isn’t just trying to “cure” fundamentalists who are interested in sex, or to bring attention to truly pornographic material (whatever that might be), but to try to suppress ALL sexual material so that they can “protect” society at large, whether or not society wants to be protected. 

The more they can convince other evangelicals that it’s a BIG, SERIOUS PROBLEM, the more they can encourage them to begin working to get rid of all that “porn” that supposedly pervades secular society.  They don’t just want to “convince you that all pornography is wrong and harmful.”  They want to redefine pornography and keep America safe from sex. ALL sex.

I would like to thank the porn industry for providing an effective contraception to those who need it. We all know that abstinence-only doesn’t work, but abstinence-plus-porn has been highly effective in many cases.

Those poll numbers come from Christian women who were educated the same way I was. I was literally told that  if my husband has a “porn problem”, it’s most likely because I am failing him as a wife, and also porn is not normal and no mentally healthy person wants to look at it. 

I have absolutely no problem with my soon-to-be husband looking at porn. All my friends in high school and college were guys, so I figured out pretty quickly that a guy who DOESN’T want to look at porn is the one who’s psychologically odd, and I mentally re-adjusted my Christianity-shaped definition of a relationship to include porn-watching as par for the course. My family would be horrified, I’m sure. 

Damn it. Now I’ve lost my boner.

“I’ll admit it’s possible for people to get addicted to porn.”

I was under the impression that the above statement was a myth put forth by anti-porn groups and individuals. Has there been any (non-anecdotal) research done that backs up that claim?

I wonder if there is a study that shows which groups use or are more addicted to porn. I imagine Muslims and Christians would be ranked at the top.

People can get addicted to anything– the internet, shopping, food, gambling.  I think the better question is, is porn something that people are more likely to get addicted to, or does it just fall into the more general category?  I.e., sure, people can probably get addicted to porn, but is that really any different from, say, a shopping addiction?  You really can’t hope to ban every possible activity that some people may develop addictions for, so why focus on porn?  Is porn really quantitatively different in some way, or is that just a myth put forth by fundamentalists?

To find that answer you would first need accurate data on how much porn people read. Most likely, porn is deemed more addictive because people underreport how much they read.

Celebrating sex within marriage is good. As a supporter of marriage, I would say we should pay special attention to that. Yes we should promote responsible sex the same way we promote responsible drinking, but I think most people will be able to do both without hurting themselves. And sexuality in culture can be positive to women, it doesn’t have to be one or the other.

Another problem is defining “porn.”  As indicated in the article I quoted below, I think a lot of fundamentalists tend to label anything with sex in it as porn.  If I read a sexy romance novel every day, am I addicted to porn?  A fundamentalist would likely say yes.  I’d just say I like to read romances *shrugs*.

Some other countries have lots of porn too and don’t have these hangups about breastfeeding or public nudity in general for that matter. In some European cities, it’s hardly unusual for women to sunbath topless in parks.

This exaggerated phobia about boobs – and sex in any form – is an American thing for the most part. Sure, a taboo everywhere to some extent, but not always this extreme

I celebrate porn the same way I celebrate my birthday.

All alone in my bedroom behind a locked door in front of the computer.

Fuck I’m lonely.

I am a woman, and I enjoy porn.

When I was a christian many years ago, I enjoyed porn, but I had severe guilt and shame attached to it. It was this guilt that caused me to feel threatened when my (then current, now former) husband enjoyed porn. Because I was so screwed up in the head regarding the legitimacy of the desire for fantasy and self-pleasure, I felt like if we needed this activity, something must be wrong.

Now that I have freed myself of christian guilt and shame, I can enjoy porn without guilt, and I can feel positive about my partner enjoying porn. We even discuss our favorite performers. And our relationship is strong and healthy. Do I ever feel inadequate compared to the performers? Sure. At that point we stop talking about porn, he calls me beautiful, and we move on to another subject or activity. It’s called communication and respect.

I believe that porn is a healthy outlet for sexually mature humans. Provided all performers are adults and willing participants, I honestly cannot see anything harmful about the industry at all.

Can it be troublesome, unhealthy, or an addiction? Sure. So can chocolate, coffee, or chewing ice. Addiction has more to do with the individual than with the actual action or substance, in many (but not all) cases.

Haven’t breastfeeding rates gone up?http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/03/us-usa-breastfeeding-idUSN0226313220070803  This would suggest that increased tolerance of female sexuality is not a detriment to breastfeeding. We should teach our daughters that breasts serve multiple functions both in feeding an infant and in sexuality. Neither is shameful and both can be celebrated.

http://i.imgur.com/kPaJw.jpg

http://blackboardsinporn.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2010-04-27T09%3A59%3A00%2B01%3A00&max-results=7

What’s on the blackboard in those porn scenes?

There are more types of porn in the world than hetero “tab A into slot B” porn. You might find something else out there that floats your boat big time — it doesn’t have to be something you’d want to or be able to participate in in “real life”. 

Neither the article or any of the comments look squarely at the issue of who gets involved in making porn, or why.  It is still true that most “actors” are women who can’t find a better way to make a living, and that should make all of us ashamed for our society.

Hurts my wallet?!?!? There’s so much free porn out there. Why pay for it? Who doesn’t know how to use a search engine?

There are some budding comedians who comment on this site.  Several of you almost made me spew my coffee.

Exactly. Breasts in porn and unavailable breast feeding are both results of the underlying cause of how society views women and their bodies. One does not cause the other, the are both symptoms of the same disorder. 

Course, so it people referring to female bodied folks as ‘the female form’. I’m a person, not a sculpture. 

Actually no it is not still true, if it ever was in the first place. 

First off most traditional porn “stars” who where women freely admit to wanting to get into the industry. The myth of the abused runaway innocent girl forced into porn, while it may have happened occasionally, it was NOT the norm. 

Also your whole argument is mute now anyway. The for money porn industry is dead, or rapidly dying. The large, professional porn film studios are all shrinking fast do to the technology they helped pioneer. The internet. See it turns out that for every one person who would like to get paid to act in a porn, there are a hundred out there who will hump for free! Most porn today is literally couples making their own movie and putting it up on the web. So it’s kinda hard to say that these women are being “forced into making a living”, when none of them are getting paid, and half are adjusting the camera. 

There are porn sites that specialize in chubby women and even fat ones. Believe it or not, there is a niche market for that kind of stuff. There are also porn sites only about masturbation. One only shows the models (both men and women) from the chest or neck up, so you only see their faces.

Most porn is crap, sure. But there is some good stuff outside the mainstream

“Pastor Pete Wilson came across that list …” For SHAME, Pastor!

i like how the anti-porn sign has to add a secular/financial reason to give it a somewhat valid argument.

Broken hotlink image.

Yeah, see, the 11 inch cocks fall into that category of things I like to watch, but don’t particularly want to do…

As for fake breasts and unrealistic bodies, again, for me, it’s something nice to look at, but when it comes down to reality, I’d rather be with a real woman or man who turns me on with their whole person; not simply how they look naked.

Joan, while I don’t have any data to refute your claim about many performers being unwilling, I am a bit skeptical about it. I’m not sure where your information came from. I’d be interested to see the data.

Yes, some performers may have been abused, but so have many technical writers, waitresses, truck drivers, CEOs…I don’t think being sexually abused drives someone to porn. I honestly think getting involved in pornography is most often a willing choice. I think this because I’ve read many articles, interviews, and books written by performers.

I have grave concerns regarding the exploitation of underage and abused people; but there are laws to protect them, and I believe that more often than not, they work.

As with many topics, the data is mixed on this issue and research bias is evident depending upon the source and intent of those conducting it. This challenge is compounded by the fact that the very women who would fit the description are what researchers call “hidden populations”–those that are difficult to find, interview and/or account for in qualitative research. As such, a case can be made on either side of the question if one decides to engage in a tit-for-tat (no pun intended). So where does that leave us in a conversation like this? Even the stories of porn actors and actresses are mixed. I’ve heard some say they enjoy and even are empowered by the work and others telling tales of starving themselves to keep their bowels empty in order to avoid eating their own shit during  soul-crushing shoots. Same goes for the impact of porn on “real” relationships. I’ve spoken with young women who like sex and enjoy porn and those who are trying to navigate the expectations of pornified partners who want to engage in behavior they are not interested in and feel pressured to replicate what’s happening on the screen. So, is it oversimplification to uniformly and rigidly say “porn is wrong”? Maybe. But, I contend, it is an equal oversimplification to uniformly and rigidly say it is “right” or that at its worst it is comparable to compulsive eating or “shopping addiction”. I believe a more critical and nuanced assessment is necessary on both sides of the equation…

Not sure I’m with you on that one, Michael. I think a “manager” on set at a porn shoot would likely be a little more street smart than to allow him (or her) self to be recorded coercing someone. Also, not sure that working extra shifts is the worst reality facing a nude woman covered in semen on set. I can see the advantage of arguing that this is just another job, but I don’t think it holds up.

You mean… people actually pay for porn? All I’ve ever needed is an internet connection and ten seconds on Google…

Hey, Rule 34 — if it exists, it is somebody’s fetish.

If you like cheesy then have a look at PG Porn.  Porn without the sex.

But it seems to me that most porn actresses and actor are from the middle class. If you polled porn actresses and asked them if they would prefer a job at McDonald’s to porn and they mostly said yes, then that would be a problem. But I don’t think you’ll find that. If you are willing to legalize jobs that are less attractive than working in porn then you can’t say that porn is bad by comparison.

But if a man finds out his wife likes Brad Pitt, a man more handsome and richer than almost every other man, don’t you think he’d feel inferior and ugly as well? I think the key is to always show our partners that we love them far more than the pictures we see on the TV or computer screen. We shouldn’t view porn or gush about Brad Pitt in front of our partners all the time if it bothers them, but a little here and there in private perhaps should be okay if there is trust in the relationship.

I think a lot of men feel bad about their penis length because they simply do not realize what the normal length is (it is 5 to 6 inches erect, by the way). Women can tell to some degree what a normal size breast is just by looking at other women, most of whom haven’t had breast implants (outside of Hollywood anyway). Men can’t go around checking other men’s erect penises except in porn which gives unrealistic expectations.

If a woman has breast implants, I don’t want her to tell me. The idea of squeezing a bag of silicone turns me off.

I was referring to a particular story from a porn actress who described herself covered in semen and under pressure to perform on a particularly grueling set. It was her example, not mine. The same text included a male actor who walked off set because the female “actress” he was asked to perform with was in the corner crying and needed to be dragged across the room to take her place. 

I said “odd”, not “wrong”, on purpose 🙂

I can’t verifyhis sources:  Christian Counseling Today is a real magazine, but it’s not online and does not have an online archive of works published (that I could find.)  

I found Mark A. Yarhouse http://psychologyandchristianity.wordpress.com/about-me/.
He does not list this in his CV, but his major work to date is __Ex-gays?:_A_Longitudinal_Study_of_Religiously-Mediated Change_in_Sexual_Orientation_.  The back cover states that,”The results show that outcomes for this kind of religiously-informed psychotherapy are similar to outcomes of therapy for other psychological problems. Such programs do not appear to be harmful on average to individuals.”
Make of these sources what you will.

I find porn highly problematic.  While I celebrate consensual sex with 2 or more adults, I have some real trouble with how porn is so violent and abusive to women and how that is sexualized.   To quite Katz “The problem is not only that a high percentage of women in porn are sexual abuse survivors, some of whom were coerced into the business when they were troubled or niave teenagers by predatory pomps and other abusive older men.  It is not only the reduction of women to what University of Texas journalism professor Robert Jensen, writing in the /Sexual-Assult Report/, painfully describes as “three holes and two hands.”  It is the way the pornography industry helps to define heterosexual /men’s/ sexuality.  Every time a video portrays a scene where a woman asks to be penetrated by a succession of men who ejaculate all over her face as they contemptuously call her a “cum-guzzling whore,” it also portrays men getting pleausure from the sight of that “cum-guzzling whore,” getting what she wants, what she deserves.  It normalizes the men’s pleasure-taking as it sexualises the woman’s degredation.  The idea that consumers of porn can masturbate and have orgams to that kind of treatment of women and not have it affect their attitudes toward the women and girls in their lives is more a fantasy than anything the most creative porn writers can conjure up.” -Katz, Jackson The Macho Paradox:WHy some men hurt women and all men can help pg 186 

Citation needed

You don’t know what you’d find if you don’t collect any data.   I think there are a myriad of contributing factors for any person working porn that are more complex than a McD’s/porn decision.

Hi Joan. I’m responding again to your first response, because the thread I’m actually replying to is getting too indented and the text is too skinny to read. 🙂

I could say that it isn’t just porn; there are lots of people who feel trapped in their office job, or their waitressing job, or in the military. I am not being flippant; some people have to seek therapy because they feel like their job is crushing them.

But you are right, I think, that pornography is a more complicated social issue. It is complicated because sex really is such an intensely personal act. There are some people who can be very casual about sex; there are some people who cannot. I’m not even talking about moral liability here, what with having guilt from religion or whatnot; the human response to sex is extremely varied from individual to individual.  

Honestly though, I don’t see what the solution would be. Should we tell the people who are happy to perform in pornography that they can’t do it because there are others who feel forced into the field? That would be like making it illegal to marry someone from another country because the mail-order bride industry exists. You can’t criminalize a legitimate institution because of corruption; you have to go after the corruption itself. 

Ummm… *cough*piratebay*cough*

Not that I advocate piracy or anything (my position on the matter is neutral) I’m just pointing out that, you know, anything you can think of, there are ways to obtain it for free. (And if there aren’t, give it five years… someone will make a way.)

Fine. I’m all in favor of collecting data. But it has to be done fairly. You can’t have a question which asks “would you rather be in porn or your dream job” and then declare that the only way porn should be legal is if it is more attractive than every other job out there. The fact is that yes there may be better jobs than porn, but there are a whole lot of jobs that are worse and we shouldn’t be putting more limitation on sex work simply because it involves sex.

 Most porn actresses are middle class. They have the ability to get other jobs. Even in times of a strong economy, you see plenty of middle class girls working in porn. They work there because they prefer the porn jobs to the other jobs that are available. 

How, exactly? Because I’m not seeing it.

Or, does the idea of masturbating in front of a computer screen full of porn seem in any way dignified to you?  How about if people were watching you do so?

It may not elevate dignity, but it doesn’t take it away.

I think the beauty of sex is a wonderful thing, but it is cheapened with each step it takes away from an act of love between two people.

Certainly not in my eyes (the cheapening, that is).

Some will say that sex is great and love doesn’t have to play in to it.  I tried that years ago and it didn’t work for me, nor for many people I knew who tried that route.

In any event, some will claim that it works for them.

And that seems to be part of the problem. Phrasing it as “some will claim” means you doubt that they are telling the truth, simply because you can’t see it working for you. 

Perhaps, yet it lessens the dignity of the act and those completing the act insomuch as it takes one of the most beautiful things people can do and almost invariably reduces it to mere physical pleasure.  The participants often become little more than tools for the other’s pleasure.

I happen to love watching a skilled dancer show off their skills. It’s a beautiful thing, and properly done, one of the most beautiful things any human can do. Tell me, does the fact that I’m willing to pay money for a good dance show lessen the dignity of the dancer? Does a dancer who gets paid to make a dance video have his or her dignity lessened because they got paid to do it, and a bunch of strangers they will never meet are going to watch it?

To take the most intmiate personal and loving activity that can exist between two people and reduce it to a solitary (and commercial) act is certainly less dignified.

And there’s another thing. You see sex as “the most intimate personal and loving activity” [bold mine], while not everyone else does. I see it as one of many highly intimate, personal, and loving activities that two people can engage in, and personally include a conversation over dinner that delves into thoughts and opinions and feelings and disagreements and agreements and shared laughter and even getting a little annoyed because they just won’t see why I’m right during the debating parts to be even better than the sex as an “intimate personal and loving activity.” Yet, I don’t find it the least bit undignified when movies or books portray that, or when watching the likes of Hitchens verbally spar on stage.

tl;dr: your view of sex is hardly the only correct view of sex, and I see no loss of dignity when watching porn – for me or the performers.

If you think that dinner conversation is more intimate than sexual intercourse I cringe to think what you do with the appetizers.

I eat them. And then I keep talking and listening, i.e., conversing. The conversation is the important part. The dinner just makes it easier to keep from being distracted by other things. 

If you think watching dancing is no different than watching sex then I think that is odd.

And yet, they are both beautiful things (except they aren’t), and often intimate. Watch two people dance together who love each other. Sometimes, the world just disappears for that couple.

I find it hard to believe that you would have the same reaction to seeing your mother compete on Dancing with the Stars that you wouldhave  to seeing her in a porn video taking on a dozen guys.  Or even one.

Well, I’d be shocked by both, because in both cases she would see it as sin. But that’s not your point I suppose. While I don’t know for sure what my exact reaction would be to seeing her in a porn, I doubt it would be what you expect. The one time I walked in on her and my stepdad having sex, I just turned around, pulled the door shut, and smiled. It didn’t bother me in the least. I was about 11 or 12 I think. Maybe 13, but I think it was before my brother came along, so that puts it at 11 or 12 (or 10). My mother’s has a sexual side. Wonderful! I hope she enjoys it.

A certain porn star once said “The only thing that makes me feel exploited is piracy”

I’ll pay for mine, thanks.

I think you have a penchant for missing the point, which is not that you would be shocked that your mother had a sex life.

Am I to conclude that you think your mother being a contestant on Dancing with the Stars to be no more dignified than your mother being in a porn video?

If the answer is no, then you see my original point.

If the answer is yes, then I think you are subject to a personal privation such that you lack any understanding of  human dignity to begin with.

I’ve seen your point all along. I just don’t think it’s a very good point. You may be right, that I would have a negative reaction if I saw a video of my mother in porn. But that does not mean that is the best response. Like most people, I’ve absorbed our culture’s prevailing views on many things into my emotions, and many of the views that were expressed by my family as I grew up. 

But they’re emotional reactions, and not rational. So, when I recognize good rational reasons to reject the views embodied by those emotions, I work to change those emotions. 

I absorbed racist attitudes towards blacks, sexist attitudes towards women and submission to men, double standards concerning male and female behavior regarding sex, and of course, certain attitudes about people who are in sex work (hooking, porn, stripping, whatever). Every single one of those attitudes is something I rationally and ethically consider wrong, and when I discover the emotional indoctrination in myself, I work to change it. It isn’t easy. Every attitude I mentioned still occasionally rears its ugliness inside my head. I accept their presence so that I can work to eliminate them (like a cancer, frankly).

So, I say again: I don’t really know what my reaction to seeing my mother in a porn video would be. But if it would be anything other than calling her to make sure she’s cool with the video being out there, then that is an attitude I need to work on and change, not one that I need to embrace or validate by assuming that reaction means I was wrong about the dignity of those in porn.

Also, what wmdkitty (what’s the “wmd” for?) said with this:

The ONLY ones who have any right to say whether it’s “dignified” or not to do porn are — and I know, this is a complete surprise to you — THE PORN STARS THEMSELVES.

“But if it [your reaction] would be anything other than calling to make sure she’s cool with the video…”

But certainly, by your lights, she should be cool with it, and you should be cool with it.  Right?

My point was that, if I read you correctly, by your standard she SHOULD be okay with it.

“It may not elevate dignity, but it doesn’t take it away.”

So, if you were masturbating in front of your computer, or with a porn magazine, and some of your friends walked in on you and started laughing, you would feel less dignified?  Or if you did feel less dignified, would you rationalize that your feeling was the result of irrational indoctrination?

If my mum wanted to do porn, regardless of how I may feel about it, it’s HER decision to do so, and that’s where that conversation ENDS.

I say again, that the ONLY people qualified to determine whether or not they are “degraded” by doing porn or that it’s “undignified” are the porn stars themselves. Not you. Not me. Not Joe Blow down the street.

If you, personally, don’t like porn, that’s okay. You’re free to NOT watch it. Just recognise that, as adults, the rest of us have every right to enjoy porn without you and yours ruining it for us.

Well… what’s to laugh at? 97% of people admit to masturbating. The other 3% are lying.

Hey, I actually had this happen with my ex — I just turned around and looked at him like, “Yeah, you do it, too, so shut up.”

Ouch.

Yeah. Thankfully, it’s mostly under control with proper diet.

Your responses are those of a child: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  Your dictitorial hypocrisy is without measure.

How is porn “violent and abusive”? You seem to think that the kind of sex for pleasure’s sake that is shown in porn is somehow bad. Men (and women!) who view porn are able to differentiate between fantasy and reality. Just because they watch something on the screen does not mean they are going to do it anywhere else. It is the same way that watching a dramatic movie does not make you go out and start having street fights with bad guys. The whole “what she deserves” part of the above quote is pure straw man. The vast majority of men and women who view porn do it because they enjoy it, not to give anyone what they “deserve”. The author is just trying to make sexual people seem evil.

We need to stop seeing sexuality as harmful. As long as it is practiced safely, it should be celebrated, not demonized. You can respect people of all genders while enjoying the sexuality of porn at the same time. Sexuality adds flavor to life which shouldn’t be thrown away.

Sorry, totally forgot you had this question out there. My bad completely. 

Would I feel less dignified? Probably depends on the laughter. Is it derisive? Are they teasing me because I got caught? Picking on my technique? Picking on my choice in porn? 

These would probably all result in different emotional responses. Embarrassment would likely be in there for all of them (I thought I locked that door?), but being embarrassed doesn’t mean I’ve lost dignity, per se. Derisive laughter would likely cause some fairly negative emotions, that would at some point probably become anger. After all, they do it too. Which means that for the got caught/technique/choice in porn versions, I’d just rip on them as well. 😀

But would I feel an actual loss of dignity? Hard to say for sure, but yes, if I did, I would consider it a silly emotion best done away with if possible. 

D’aww, that’s actually kinda sweet.

There’s a lot of variables in what you’ve linked, starting with the statements that porn work is contractual–which means no guaranteed work, no healthcare, no unemployment, etc.

Can you be a become rich and famous from porn?  Sure, look at Jenna Jamison or Ron Jeremy.  Can you have a comfortable life as a porn star?  There’s many who do porn & tour strip clubs and do well for themselves.  Yet there’s also a possibility that you don’t reach this level of fame and able to secure this amount of income.  The sex stars I have known have been part-timers, most who quit because of exploitative practices of their employers.  Antidote =/Data, and I don’t know how normative my acquaintances experiences are of porn stars in general.  But then, neither do you.

The point is not to assume the worst, but to assume nothing and make only very provisional statements until you have data to back up your claims.  I’m neck-deep in another project, but when I’m free I’ll try to dig up some more info on pornstar lives– and if there’s nothing,  maybe try run a survey or two and some interviews so that we have something to talk about.

So… what about women who enjoy being whores? What about women who feel that being sexually active empowers them? What about women who come violently when spanked? Don’t try and tell me they don’t exist, I lived with one. A woman in porn is NOT degraded, if she is enjoying herself. Women, just like men, can be kinky. They can like being peed on, they can like peeing on others. They can like knifeplay, or being tied up, or spat upon.
Is a woman enjoying herself degrading to you? Is a man enjoying himself degrading to you?
Porn crosses boundaries if there is no consent… But just because you wouldn’t consent, doesn’t mean no one would.
The only place where this is an issue is with minors, but then we have the age of consent. Before then, you have no consent to give, so any sexual act isn’t consensual.
In any case, please don’t call any sex that involves violence degrading to women. I know female masochists who would be very upset with that terminology. I know girls who like being called bitch, and being slapped till they bleed. Just because it’s not your kink doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

In any case, please don’t call any sex that involves violence degrading
to women. I know female masochists who would be very upset with that
terminology.

At first I was very confused with your argument–I mean, the kink in masochism is degradation.

mas·och·is·tic

  [mas-uh-kis-tik, maz‐] Show IPA
adjective
1.Psychiatry. having a condition in which sexual gratification depends on suffering, physical pain, and humiliation.
2.gratified by pain, degradation, deprivation, etc., inflicted on oneself either by one’s own actions or the actions of others.

Upon reflection, I think the point you are making is, “Girls should be allowed to enjoy kinky, violent sex without being looked down as less than virgin- or vanilla sex girls.”  Am I right? Which by the way is a fine point and I don’t disagree with it.

My goal is that a woman’s consent is respected.  If she consents to being spanked and humiliated that she has that choice is respected, and if she chooses not to be spanked and humiliated than that choice is respected. 

What worries me is that repeated exposure to violence against women lowers people’s empathy to survivors of non-consensual violence.  This translates into victim blaming and absolves the perpetrator of guilt–allowing them free to attack another person. I am not so much anti-degradation as anti-non-consensual violence.

Only if you let it destroy your relationship. Natch.

Like I said in my other post, I’m all in favor of making sure that sex workers get the same health benefits and other benefits that other workers do. We should have regulations on the industry that make it safer, but not those geared toward making it rarer.

It would be good to find more information on the topic. However, I’d want to make sure that the data was objective. I often find that the humanities and arts departments often have views ahead of time that colors their view of the world. We need to make sure that the study was random, includes a large sample, asks relevant questions, ect.

That was the definition listed in dictionary.com.  The Merrium-Webster’s is

1: a sexual perversion characterized by pleasure in being subjected to pain or humiliation especially by a love object — compare sadism
2: pleasure in being abused or dominated : a taste for suffering.

Masochism is still listed in the DSM IV as a paraphilia, so I imagine that it is somewhat how they see it.  (I think that research would be much less fun than you imagine 😉 )

My friends who were BDsM were always more B/D & D/s than S/M, and they always emphasized the power dynamics and how they were struggling to not be understood in terms of pain.  Maybe it’s a dominance or pain thing then?+