Why Are Christians Leaving the Church? Turns Out It’s the Churches’ Fault

An atheist can talk to a theist all day, everyday and tell them that their religion imposes sanctions on women, treats gay people with discrimination, threatens good people with Hell in the afterlife and that sex is viewed as sinful. They won’t buy it.

But only when they experience this first hand within their religious prayer halls and feel the discrimination and accusations of not being a “true believer” or forced to make decisions that they’re uncomfortable with that they realize that what the atheists were saying were right all along.

But at this juncture, the atheist community shouldn’t say a word on this exodus (pardon the pun) of youngsters from the Church. Simply show them that we have a more dependable framework to explain things. Give them a hug  for having the strength and conviction to step outside their belief system and buy them a science textbook.

“I just stopped believing what they preached” and “I was ashamed of the church’s stance on homosexuality” didn’t make the cut.

The former probably falls under 6, and the latter under 4 from what the article says.

Anyway, is it just me or does the author of the article write as if the leavers may have a point when it came to reasons 1,2,3,5, and 6, and yet get all judgemental of the terrible pornographically obsessed culture of today in number 4?

I do find it odd, however, that they are obsessing over things they can change about how they present the Bible. Isn’t the Bible meant to be the perfect book, and base of morality, etc.? If that’s the case you surely shouldn’t be dressing it up.

Don’t get me wrong, in many ways I like the fact they are trying to cover over the negatives – I just wish they’d go further. Release a new Bible with all the bits that no longer count removed. That way not only would we know what they actually profess to believe in, but also the chance for future generations to resurrect the bits in the Bible they currently want to discard gets lowered.

The book sounds fascinating. Especially because it’s written by a Christian. A lot of those excuses posted feel resoundingly familiar with my own struggle as a Christian teen. I’ll have to put it on my reading list.

When I walked away from religion and was so glad to find small atheist communities online.  Speaking from experience, that was the best thing anyone could have done for me. Post their own experiences, have well thought out answers to my honest brainwashed questions, and be there to support me, because walking away from religion can be really difficult. I know it was for me.

So I completely agree, the best thing we can do is continue to ask the questions that make the religious uncomfortable to try to jump start their skeptical thinking, and to have a place for the ones who are doubting to land, here online, because the road to atheism is a very lonely one.

The most interesting thing to me about this list is that all these things are pretty inherent to Christianity, and to most religions. I mean, come on — they’re losing members because they say they’re right and other people are wrong? What are they supposed to do instead? Anything that fixes this (acknowledging uncertainty, giving individuals the chance to find their own answers) necessarily undermines the religion.

The books title is misleading. It really shouldn’t be “rethinking”, but “finally thinking”

Indeed, young people are finally moving from blind faith… and into their own, deeply committed, and thought out spirituality. Oops.

Looks to me like the article’s author tried sugar-coat all six of them and make all 6 reasons out to be “society’s fault” for corrupting the youth instead of the church’s fault for pushing them away.  #4 was definitely the most blatant about it, though.

baby steps, “spiritual” is better than “religious”

360 degrees makes a full circle… ???

Religiousness? People are walking away from religion and finding humanism, atheism, deism, pantheism and spirituality.  I don’t see anyone leaving church and becoming more religious.  Maybe more spiritual, but I would much rather be surrounded by people who find god in nature, than folks who take the bible as the strict word of a malevolent god.

Having atheists being out and normal and online helped me. Maybe it won’t help everyone leave the myths behind, and that’s okay.

There is no way you have done a peer reviewed double blind scientific study of the entire ‘online community’. If you have, please post it. I would love to see how many people who were logical enough to doubt the myth and but be dumb enough go right back to it.

There is nothing thought out about it. It’s simply undefined, nebulous feelings. Religious feelings are very literally like drugs. They make people feel good. That’s all it is

Not for the anti-theists, no. Spiritual people in time form their own established religions (or more likely religious sects), and because of the reformations which come with spirituality, the new religions are less easily strawmanned. It is better for everyone else, because with these new religions comes less chance of hateful dogma (hell, etc).

Fixed! Thanks.

Apologetics has never been anything but pseudo-philosophy and an exercise in logical absurdities and fallacies. Its only chance to declare victory is be so ridiculous as to make the other side give up because it doesn’t want to read the BS anymore.

And spirituality we’re talking about here certainly isn’t arrived at by thought. People just leave the overly organized trappings behind, but keep the ill-defined feelings they have about “higher powers” and such. So they believe in something supernatural, but can’t really say what exactly. A lot are also into it not because of any theology, but for the community with other people

Also why are the Unitarian Universalists losing young people (or at least people willing to officially be members since several times as many people claim to be UUs than are on the rolls)?  The only option there might be 2. 

I think what we can do is give them a place to be.  For a long time young people left or abstained from church but they drifted back a later because there was no place for them to find a new community to thrive in.  That is what is becoming different now.  Things are getting better and non belief is slowly becoming ok if not fully accepted.  

As a self-identified anti-theist, they’re not “our biggest problem”, they’re just annoying, since trying to pin them down to anything is like trying to nail jello to a wall.   I write them off as “mostly harmless”…unless they keep voting Republican/Tea Party…

the ones that stay remain in their insulated bubble where they think science, the internet etc are evil.  Noticed ones in the forum that don’t go to church (they don’t believe in ‘churchianity’ and are ‘non-denominational’) – doesn’t stop them from being ignorant bigots though

Just getting up the nerve to leave in the first place can be frightening enough. I know because I have been there. There is a huge temptation to return, maybe to a different church or homegroup or whatever, but it’s there. I, for one, didn’t explore atheism right out of the gate because it frightened me. As I mentioned below in this thread, a caring atheist friend was the biggest key in helping me see in my own what was and wasn’t true, not only about atheism but my beliefs in general.

dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge

I don’t quite agree.  This may be the case in urban and suburban areas, but in rural communities I see a new trend: very large, non-denominational blurrily-named, feel-good non-churches that are distinctly Christian in a give-us-your-money kind of way. They have names like The Journey Church, The Vineyard, The Greenleaf, etc. 

Well, it gets them away from mainstream religion which is a good first step. 

Man… this place is like a breath of fresh air after trying to have a conversation over at Pharyngula. What a bunch of angry potty-mouths…

<3 Friendly Atheist

*gives out free hugs*

So does this mean that all these apostates have perversely decided to have “meaningless” lives?

As a young male who was formerly a conservative jew by birth, the main reason I stopped going to religious functions was number 2, it just wasn’t interesting or relevant. The reason I think this was is because the other reasons didn’t really apply to the brand of religion I was subscribed to, and the whole doubting god just came later after I had time to think. I believe that this is also the most prevalent issue for a younger generation, because being honest, we are a little more than slightly shallow. The no sex issue is also probably one of the larger drivers as well if I were to venture guess.

Exactly! Obviously what they remove would likely not be the same things Jefferson did, but that’s exactly the kind of thing I’d like to see these Christians who claim ‘such-and-such’ no longer matters, actually do.

Alpha courses are still running. Come “explore” the meaning of life with half truths, outright lies, and a fixed destination in mind.

Spiritual but not religious is so much better than religious. I’d definitely count that as progress. Yes, it usually means wishy washy cherry picking, creating a frankensteins monster of faith, but it is a personal individual faith. Not a faith that lobbies against science or civil rights! And not a faith that warps morality.

If all religious people became spiritual but not religious (rather than atheists) we’d have a more rational compassionate world. Atheism would be better, but if you don’t win the jackpot a consolation prize is still a prize.

 I’ll admit to being surprised that “I just stopped believing what they preached” and “I was ashamed of the church’s stance on homosexuality” didn’t make the cut.

I’m assuming the latter falls under the “sex-negative” thing.  I am absolutely unsurprised about the former not making the cut, though!  As we have seen time and time again both from those who “believe in belief” on one side and from SBNR types on the other side, whether someone thinks religion is a good thing seems to be orthogonal from whether they believe in any given religious truth claims.  Certainly there seems to be at least some correlation, but it is probably a rare bird who thinks that church is awesome and God is real on one day, and then believes that church is crap and God is phony on the next day.  I expect for many people, one or the other comes first.

And someone who believes church is awesome but comes to realize God is phony is not necessarily going to leave, at least not right away.  It ought to lower the bar towards them realizing all the reasons church is crappy, though, and then one of the six reasons comes into play, I would imagine.

You know, I think you’re right. I’d like to see if there has been any change in the tendency to become more conservative when one has a family of one’s own, or a change in how that extra conservatism plays out, or both.

Many people (but certainly not all, and not necessarily most) who call themselves “spiritual, but not religious” do so because they don’t realize that non-religious is not synonymous with evil, or even that the option of non-belief really exists. Or they’re simply afraid to confront their real lack of belief head on, because acknowledging what they truly (don’t) believe means risking Hell if they’re wrong, or not getting Heaven if they’re right. That can be a hard hurdle to overcome. And many of them will find that their vague spirituality will eventually fall away to complete non-belief.  While I certainly want such people to continue to progress and to reach a point of considered non-belief, I’m quite happy that they’ve cast off the shackles of religion even if they stay stuck in their intermediate position forever.

Actually, you weren’t talking about a study at all, you were talking about your own anecdotal evidence from personal experience. 

For me, it was a combination of all of these 6 reasons, along with simply not
being around churchgoers anymore.  I didn’t become an atheist until much later, the first step was just not going to church anymore.  My family wasn’t particularly
religious, but I was dragged to church every Sunday.  I even went to
Sunday school and the church youth group as a kid.  It was a pretty
moderate, middle-of-the-road congregation, but I noticed all of the
things mentioned in these 6 points.  I had no interest in church, so as
soon as I moved out of my parents house I never went back. 

With the friends I made in my adult life, religion or church just never
even came up, I guess because I prefer to surround myself with rational
people.  I didn’t really question the existence of god when I was being
dragged to church, but after being away from church and not really
thinking about it for several years, it was easier to just look at the
claims made by Christianity and reject them solely on the fact that they
are ridiculous.  I never had an atheist epiphany, it was more like I just gradually grew more embarrassed that I ever fell for it on the rare occasions when I thought about it.  Kind of like looking at past fashions you wore in photos in the high school yearbook.  You don’t realize how stupid those acid washed jeans looked at the time, because everyone was wearing them.  But in retrospect….jeez.

I think the brainwashing aspect of religion is so strong, that it is easier for people to question and dodge around these outside aspects of religion, rather than simply attacking the central premise head on.  But these side issues can cause enough cognitive dissonance that it can lead people to question the very existence of god… eventually.  It is just a lot easier to do that when you aren’t constantly surrounded by people who profess to believe.  So I think the trends that brought this book to be are a good thing, because the more younger people leave the church, meet other people, and find other ways to pass the time, the less likely they will be to return.

Presumably they just spend left-over Christian credit and assign meaning even though, as Dawkins tells us, there is none, at the end of the day. Who needs to ground meaning in anything, though?   😛

I’ve wondered if people could lose interest in Christianity because it bores them too much. I’ve noticed that many children want to read about Harry Potter, discuss the stories with their friends and see the movies so badly that they will even defy their parents to do so.

By contrast, children generally don’t want to read about Jesus unless their elders make them.

What people need is to be vaccinated against religions ideas. 

That’s funny. I actually enjoy both groups, it just depends what my mood is. The Pharyngulites do an amazing job of shutting down trolls. When they don’t have some inane commenter to shut down, they often have very enlightening and productive conversations.

However, it is softer over here at Friendly Atheist. It’s easier for first-time commenters here. I think I just have a soft spot for Pharyngula because it was the first atheist blog I started reading after deconverting.

I’ve always thought that religion doesn’t come naturally to children. Sure, you can get them to accept the supernatural claims as fact, but religious behavior is another thing entirely. I think very few young children display religious behavior without prompting from adults. How many six-year-olds, for example, spontaneously erupt in prayer or start writhing on the floor in religious ecstasy? When I’ve seen footage of evangelical church services, it’s generally the youngest children who seem the most normal.

That’s why churches work so hard to make their messages “fun” for children. Generally, younger kids don’t have any concept of their own mortality, and all of their emotional needs are (hopefully) fulfilled by their parents. They don’t need a big Daddy-in-the-Sky because they have mothers and fathers on earth to take care of them. I can’t imagine Jesus would have any intrinsic emotional appeal for a child who is already getting all of her needs met by the adults in her life. I’m sure that’s why the churches try to make that dry material attractive and palatable, so that when the child inevitably learns that her parents are not Superman and realizes that everyone dies, the rituals and theological claims will seem warm and comforting.

I have always been skeptic of studies.  I want to know how they did their research.

In this case, the research was done by a group that has a vested interest in keeping people in the church – hardly unbiased.  Further, they seemed to do both interviews – which require honest interpretation – and online polls – which require questions that don’t ignore certain possible responses.  There appears to be plenty of opportunity to “shape” the results into something palatable for their audience.

I note that all 6 of the top reasons are carefully crafted to lead to action – and a lot of that would be something this particular organization is prepared to assist with.

What I don’t see in the research is the reason why there are so many atheists – religion just flat doesn’t make sense.  The evidence against it is overwhelming (by its absence!)

When I was a xian, I would take my nephew to church. He’d always have these handouts/coloring activities. One week it was 3 check boxes about whether he had made a ‘decision for Jesus’: the options were yes, no, and I need some time to think about it. He was five or six at the time, mind you. I saw that he chosen the third option which honsetly made me proud because when I saw that handout I felt uneasy that they were pushing a decision like that on a kid that young. The thing is, my nephew would go to church with me cuz he liked hanging out with me on the ride to and from, and because he got to play with other kids, but I always got the sense that he didn’t buy the Jesus stuff. I could tell he thought it was strange. Smart kid. He was ahead of me, but I won’t be too hard on myself since I was thoroughly indoctrinated from birth.

I know the date I was born.  Does that count?

The problem is that they consider anyone who disagrees with any thing their idol says a troll. It’s totally impossible to debate any topic without being jumped by loud mouth testosterone driven jocks. It’s far more adult and civilised over here.

I am a whole-hearted Christian, but before anyone gets upset, I want to say that this website has been a great resource for me. I have quite a few athiest family members, of whom I haven’t been able to connect very well with lately. I also have a few friends who have left church and turned to atheism. I’m not saying they were right or wrong in doing so, but I would like to learn more about atheism. I’ve never been able to understand it and it always seemed such a depressing outlook, but I want to be able to talk to them again and understand their choice. I want to see if it was something wrong with the church, if so, what I can do to help, or if not, what I can do to better understand. Please help if you know what some other reason ( smaller ones, that maybe weren’t listed above) that would convince a person to leave, and if it is something fixable, what can Christians do to help?

I’ve been saying this same thing for a long time.  The thing that we can give these people is a place to go. One thing that keeps people in the church (I’ve heard this time and again) is that people are afraid to be ostracized, but by giving these people a “safe haven” to go to, we are making it possible for people to leave their religious communities and not feel alone.

This also plays into another thing that I’ve been saying for a long time.  When we discuss (read: argue) with xians on blogs, I think it is extremely important that we stay reasonable and rational with our arguments.  We need to stay away from any sort of strawman arguments or fallacies. Let those religiots prove how unreasonable they are while we prove how reasonable we can be.  We have these discussions not to convince someone who thinks they can actually talk someone into believing their delusional superstition in a blog, but for the audience; those people who are on the fence and looking for answers.  We want to show the people who are reading these blogs that being an atheist doesn’t mean beating people over the head with emotions to get them to submit, but inspiring people to actually think for themselves and just ask the rational, logical questions.  We already know that xians can’t win in a logical, reasonable, rational debate, so our job is just to show that to our audience.

Actually, it appears that the article, and the book he is talking about is not about why people are abandoning “the faith”, but abandoning the church, which are two very different things. Abandoning the church is, in most cases, only the first step to clearing the delusional out of one’s mind.

 The so-called increase in religion appears to be almost entirely an artifact of the fact that conservative and bigoted religious people have more children than liberal and educated people. Religion is not increasing as the result of converts in the industrialized world (although this is the case in economically and educationally under-privilded communities and nations).  It is increasing because of  the fertility of religious people (who are  usually anti-birth control and relatively ignorant about sex in general.

 Not quite.  They will be happy to talk to you if you can show that your understanding of the biological science is equal to or greater than theirs.  If you demonstrate that you do not have this level of knowledge then they, quite understandably, don’t think you are worth talking to because you don’t have sufficient knowledge or understanding to make sensible and informed comments.  If, however, you do have this knowledge and challenge Myer’s opinion, then they WILL listen to you.  They will then do what science always does:  try to find fault with your argument.  If they can’t then they are delighted to have been presented with a new idea or fact.  That is how science works.

I suspect you imagine that they should treat you with “respect”, simply because you are expressing an unverified opinion that society has, until recently,  politely refused to challenge on the grounds that is it “religion”and therefore above reason.  This authoritarian position is immature and is grossly unacceptable in an academic community.  Live with it!  If you want to be “respected” then talk to other religious people who agree with you, or will at least listen to you politely before telling you that you are going to hell because your version of god and idea of the requirements for eternal life are all wrong.

 Me, too.  I had no “bad” experiences of my old religion.  I simply investigated the basis for its belief system – and it failed – miserably.  I had no honest choice but to reject it as  indoctrinated and wish-fulfilling nonsense.  What happened to all the people who took this route to non-belief?

“Dr Antogai God has truly given you a gift. Since I known you for some years now, you have shown me many results. I was homeless, on the verge of a divorce, broke, and jobless. Now thanks to your help… I have my own house, new truck, new job, and marriage better than ever. You truly is a gift from God.I will advice any in need of help to contact him antogaispelltemple@yahoo.com

 I’m not sure if that is really the reason. It may be the outcome…but several steps in between take place before the final choice was made. I believe the article is spot on with the reasons…and I believe it because I see it a lot. The church is it’s own worst enemy. I believe “most” churches are led by people who are not fit for ANY type of management/leadership position. And I don’t mean this as spiritual..I mean these people wouldn’t even make good managers and such in real working businesses.

As far as in doubting God…well, I believe the last step is definitely fulfilled due to a lack of knowledge. I love Mark Twain…and he hits the nail on the head with his statement: “In religion and politics people’s beliefs and convictions are in almost every
case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have
not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand
from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.”

This understanding goes with anyone, christian, jew, atheist, etc…anyone without a solid foundation of actual understanding (being obtained by personal investigating), will always be on shaky ground.

 Just got done reading a very old article written by Rupert Hughes from 1924. You can view it here at: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/rupert_hughes/why_i_quit_going_to_church.html.

But it further proves as to why people leave the church. While his article was very insightful…leading me to investigate many aspects of the Bible (not saying I agree 100%), I found the comments he included below from letters sent to him (after his watered down published version in Cosmopolitan) to be a real reflection of how many Christians react towards people who disagree with them. Some I find embarrassing to say the least. As stated already….the church is it’s own worst enemy.