Ask Richard: Atheist Muslima in Europe Feels Trapped by Family Ties

You read things like this, and suddenly the prejudices of American Christians seem almost quaint by comparison. It makes my blood boil how people can retain the prisons of religious fundamentalism even when they go to secular countries. They partake in the advantages of civilization, while denything their children, especially daughters, of any of the freedoms of advanced societies…

All of what Richard said. Then some more. If there is even the slightest possibility you get forcibly shipped out of the country to marry a stranger you need to put mechanisms in place to prevent that, including procuring some method of communicating with authorities. Get a prepaid phone and keep it hidden and close.

Then get out of the house as soon as you possibly can. Usually I would say grit your teeth and make it through college, but in this case I’m not entirely sure that’s the best idea. If there’s any credible chance of leaving the country to continue your education elsewhere, even if it takes longer and requires you to work, take it. Its not a matter of if they will find out, it’s a matter of when. Do you really expect your father to become old and die without ensuring his daughter, who he has manipulated into compliance, gets a “proper husband”? You will never choose a man your father approves of and he will be sure to choose one able to enforce the rules you despise, which you say can include violence. Don’t get sucked into that. You love your father and that’s admirable, but he has no right to demand (even unwittingly) that you sacrifice your life and freedom for his satisfaction.

Best of luck!

“I think what you have needed is for someone to give you permission to take care of yourself and to act in your own best interests. I have no particular authority to give you such permission, yet I do so anyway, and I hope that many others will too. ” I also grant you permission to take care of yourself and to act in your own best interests, my lack of particular authority to do so notwithstanding.

I quite often disagree with at least some of Richard’s answers in these posts, but not this time, not even a little.

Additionally, I would say that the Reader’s wellbeing isn’t purely a matter of acting in her own best interests – if she can make it out she’ll be able to make contributions to society as a whole, and particularly by setting an example to others following the same path, and we need people like that.

Don’t be afraid to ask for help.  There’s a huge community out here ready and willing to help.  There might be difficulties in how we can safely render aid, but we can also be creative.  It doesn’t hurt to ask, and no request is too big or too small.

I second that you do not need to apologize for your English.  You are better-spoken than at least half of the people raised with English in the United States. 

I would only add two suggestions to what has already been said:  first, you might consider overtly asking/demanding that your siblings take on some of the responsibility of caring for your parents.  Their self-preservation is important, but it is not fair that it comes at the expense of yours. 
Second, you might consider, at least for a few years, something that is far, far from ideal:  a marriage of mutual convenience with a muslim man who is also looking for a way to escape his family due to homosexuality or other reasons (hopefully, your admirable independence of mind has spared you from the bias against homosexuality that so many religions around the world share).  It would mean continuing a distasteful charade for both of you, at least for a couple of years, but it would give both of you some breathing room to get away from your families and start your own lives.  You wouldn’t have a real marriage, but you would have independence and you would have a friend. 

That option would merely be delaying the inevitable outing (you will hopefully fall in love for real and then need to divorce your original ‘husband,’ with whom you will have planned for such an eventuality), but it would mean that you were in a much stronger position when that outing occurred. 

I think it might be helpful to look at the long-run results of your choices.

Suppose you decide to not come out.  It would be marriage and perhaps children.  We can see self-sacrifice as a noble thing.  But would you bring a child into the same situation?

If forcing another generation to live-a-lie for family is unacceptable, then the problem becomes not, “if you should leave” but rather “when”.

There might be some value in waiting until you’ve started school.  But once you have the opportunity to leave, it seems like you should do so.   You will get more of a chance to live your life as you want.  And the sooner you leave, the sooner there is the chance (however slim) that you will be able to have an honest relationship with your parents.

It sounds like a very painful decision, and I wish you the best with whatever you should choose.

This story breaks my heart. I have friends from the Bible Belt here in the USA who were completely ostracized from their families because they went against their families’ strict religions values – they got divorced, or, they came out as gay. The family’s initial reaction often felt threatening, resulting in them having to practically flee their family home or their families presence in a few cases, and the ostracism was painful and, often, permanent – I have friends that have never been able to speak to their families again, never able to see their beloved cousins, nephews, aunts, uncles, etc. (though a few extended family and siblings have dared to stay connected, quietly), and they mourn this to this day. This can and does happen in the USA. And it hurts. But if I were to ask them if they would like to continue to live a lie if it meant still being able to be with their families, they would all say no.

Take the advice that has been offered: open a bank account of your own and put all of the money you can into that account. While you are still living at home, have an escape plan in case you need to flee to a women’s shelter (know the address of such and have a plan for getting to such if a situation turns threatening). Be careful regarding using the Internet; from home, don’t write emails or visit web sites that could betray your true feelings – save that for Internet cafes. A good way to put off your family about knowing the truth about your feelings is to ask them lots of questions so that they are talking, not you – about whatever (the weather, their day, cousin so-and-so, whatever) – I do this with my own grandmothers, who are in their 90s and would be heart-broken if they knew I was an Atheist. You may even want to get some Koranic or Haddith verses, or some facts from Islamic history, to support whatever it is you are wanting to do that your family is not wanting you to do (there’s verses and historical incidents that support a girl’s education, that support her taking a community leadership role, etc. – I used these when I worked in Afghanistan to support some of the things our organization was doing).

Your ultimate goal is to move out of your home as soon as possible, and when you do, it needs to be sudden, so that there is no way your family can stop you. And it will be a dreadful time at first, for sure. But it WILL get better if you get out. And I hope so much that family members who are initially unsupportive or hostile will, eventually, accept your decision and maintain a relationship with you. 

I hope you will write Richard again soon, and tell us your reaction to this advice. I also hope you will post in a few months and let us know what is happening.

Is she technically a “muslima” if she’s no longer muslim?

/pedantry

Lina, it won’t work. 

The issue isn’t that she is working in so much as that she doesn’t believe and is forced to live a double life. 

Some muslim families are liberal and don’t mind. Reader implies that it’s not. Many muslims have responded to this kind of thing with threats of murder. 

In the UK a charity I give money to reports roughly 300 to 500 calls of asian domestic issues a day. The threat to women like this is very real. 

And remember your family appreciate and value you to the point they are willing to listen to your opinions. Hers may not and may even attack her physically or worse. Ship her off to somewhere were she is effectively a slave. 

Lina, it won’t work. 

The issue isn’t that she is working in so much as that she doesn’t believe and is forced to live a double life. 

Some muslim families are liberal and don’t mind. Reader implies that it’s not. Many muslims have responded to this kind of thing with threats of murder. 

In the UK a charity I give money to reports roughly 300 to 500 calls of asian domestic issues a day. The threat to women like this is very real. 

And remember your family appreciate and value you to the point they are willing to listen to your opinions. Hers may not and may even attack her physically or worse. Ship her off to somewhere were she is effectively a slave. 

Your courage and your situation both leave me breathless.  I second much of what has been said. Keep a pre-paid, untraceable cell phone. Keep your money in cash form, and on your person at all times. Ditto for your passport and identification. I would also recommend memorizing emergency phone numbers rather than keeping them written down. Keep nothing on your phone or computer that could be traced–phone numbers, names, places, dates. Prepare a short-term emergency plan–think of routes to shelters at all hours of the day and night, with and without public transportation. Be very wary of trusting your family members after you leave–too often a young woman is lured back in by promises of forgiveness, only to be trapped when she arrives home. 

I do have a sense of what it is like to feel like you are your father’s last chance at happiness, that by choosing yourself over him you are abandoning him. I felt intense guilt for escaping from my violent family, feeling like I doomed my mother and was too unforgiving towards my father. It wasn’t until the mother of my husband hugged me and told me I wasn’t responsible for the happiness of others that I believed what my friends had been telling me all along. I dearly hope you find a similar friend in your life to help you believe that you are doing the right thing by leaving, that you are a champion and an amazing woman, and that your parents are trapped in their culture and religion–tragic, yes, but you cannot free them. That is something they have to do for themselves. I wish you luck, love and freedom. Please keep in touch. 

I think you should make a clean break of it before the situation becomes even more complex (i.e. married, even if a marriage of convenience). Plan it out – what funds you will need, how will you exit, where you will go, who will support you. As soon as all components are in place, do it. Don’t hesitate, don’t “test the waters” with your family’s reaction.

While the situations aren’t the same one of my best friends escaped from an emotionally abusive family arrangement around your age.  While a lot of people are talking about your stuff and needing cops to help you get it out, the best thing to do is forget it; you can always get more stuff.

What you need to focus on is the essentials.  My friend made two piles, stuff I need and stuff I want and he kept the “need” pile small enough that it could be moved out at a moments notice.  Some clothes, treasured childhood items, etc…  Nothing larger than a large knapsack.

Anything extra he put into a rented storage locker, that way he could go back and get it at some point down the road and know he didn’t have to be stressed if he had to leave in a hurry.

Then one day, when his parents went out grocery shopping (it was rare for them to both go at the same time), he left.  Just packed up and moved, didn’t tell anyone (I didn’t hear about it until the frantic phone call from his mother 5 hours later).  And he didn’t move to a location in town either, he went far enough away that they couldn’t find him; I didn’t even know where he moved to until almost 3 months later.

So I’m going to suggest you do something similar:

* If you parents leave for an errand, or send you on one and you know you’re not expected back for a while.  Just go.  Don’t announce it, just go.

* Keep a small bag of “needs” ready to go (store it in the storage locker if you have to).

* Get a pre-paid travellers credit card with enough money to live cheaply for at least 2-3 months.  Make sure you select the “online billing” option so the bills go to an e-mail address that only YOU know about (don’t tell anyone what it is).

* Do the same thing for a bank account, have all statements go to your private online account that only you know about.

* Don’t use your real name or address, get a Post Office Box if you can, on either the credit card or bank accounts.  If your parents have you declared a missing person the cops can use those bank records to find you.  If they’re busy looking for your real name they aren’t looking for the fake name you’ve registered your accounts with.

* Have a small amount of cash available to live on for at least the first day.

* Go to the Train / Bus station and get a one way ticket for two to three cities over, particularly if they don’t have a large Muslim community.  Reading earlier up in the thread leads me to believe that your parents will ask the “community” to look out for you, stay away from it.  To really confuse them hop a few more one ways, you should be pretty safe and if you get an overnight ride you can always sleep for a few hours on the bus/train.

* Use some of the cash from above to pay for the bus / train tickets, cash is nearly impossible to track.

*  If you have access to your passport, see above but go a country or two over.

* Look into youth hostels and try and blend in with the backpackers, lots of young people backpack through Europe and they tend to congregate in Hostels because the rates for staying are quite low.  Hostels are also good because your family will probably expect you to head for a woman’s shelter, don’t hide where they expect you to go.  You might even be able to find a group of women who are backpacking who wouldn’t mind a tag along for a few cities.

* If you can afford it get a Netbook.  Not only can you keep an eye on your finances via Coffee Shop / Library Wi-Fi but you can also research your next moves.

After a couple of months you should be sufficiently “lost” that your family will have a hard time finding you.  Then you have to start implementing the next part of your plan: long term security (what you tell people about your family, if anything, to minimize their ability to track you), job, housing, future education plans.

For eduction, I remember watching a documentary that it’s not uncommon for some European countries to provide a College / University eduction for their residents / citizens, you should look into see which countries offer this and how many years you need to be a resident / citizen before you’d qualify.  Doing this could save you from having to make the choice between freedom / eduction, you could have both, even if you have delay your education for a while.  

Ultimately you have to decide just how “lost” you want to be.  How willing are you to cut all ties with your family and potentially never talk to them *ever* again.  Because personally, with the threat of death over my head, I’d change my name, tell everyone I was an orphan, and get as far away as possible from my family as I possibly could.

Yes, I’ve found that the better someone from another country is at speaking English, the more likely they are to apologize for their English skills.

I agree that you need to run, not walk out of the situation before you are trapped deeper.  I would only add a few points.

An “untraceable” cell phone is a good idea.  They are not truly untraceable in some respects because the police can get stuff like what cell towers the calls are coming from under some situations.  But they will only do that if they believe that there is a crime involved.  So I would consider making it a point to contact a local police office to advise them that you left of your own free will and you were not kidnapped as your family may claim in order to get the police involved.

Setting up cell phone is not that hard.  At least here in the US.  Things may be slightly different in the county you are in.  But in case you don’t know the steps, here they are.  First, set up a new e-mail account, like G-mail or some other free mail service.  Do this from a public library.  The IP address used to set this address up can be traced later under some circumstances.  You don’t want anything on this account to be linkable to you.  Then buy a pay as you go cell phone in a department store.  Pay cash.  Buy a time card for the phone and pay cash for that as well.  You can register the phone on line.  Again, do this from some public use computer.  You then go to the phone’s web site and enter a name, a fake name.  You enter the e-mail address you set up and then enter the serial number from the phone and the time you bought.  Bang.  A phone that can not be traced back to you personally. 

Using the family computer for any of this will compromise your secrecy.  The family will reach out to the community and someone may know enough to recover the computer’s history or view the websites visited.  Everything you see or do on a computer is saved to the hard drive.  Some of it gets erased over time.  But if you register the phone or set up the e-mail from the family computer, then  someone who knows enough may be able to recover enough info to allow them to call the phone or hack the e-mail account.  If they find the right people to talk to, they may be able to recover your letter to Richard or view some of the responses here if you used the family computer to write the letter or view the replies.

Getting yourself a net book would be a great idea if that is something that is practical for you.  If you get one, keep it with you at all times so that when you have to run, anything on it goes with you.

Good Luck.  I hope you make it out.

Someone close to me tried to threaten me with their own suicide. Thinly veiled emotional extortion.

I said that would be very sad, and I hoped they’d reconsider. But that if they were really committed they should consider researching on the effects of overdosing on over-the-counter painkillers and stimulants, because mechanical suicide – gun, noose, bridge, running in front of a car – or taking poison would probably be a very painful way to go, and there must be peaceful ways of doing it.

…

This person did not threaten me with suicide again.

I agree with Richard but wish the emphasize that the long term plan is probably the most sensible outcome.  I didn’t get from the letter whether the siblings were older or younger.  If they are indeed younger, there is a double-whammy of endangering your siblings should you run away unless you absolutely have to.  They may have a harder time escaping this relationship in a more rational manner.  Completing college seems to be the best option right now.  When I first entered college, I had never been allowed to cross the road on my own before.  I was always driven to and from school.  I never had friends outside of school and never went anywhere unescorted.  I was rarely left home alone.  But yet, here I was, in college, far away from home!  I still had no money of my own, and my parents knew the passwords to all my email accounts, financial accounts and student accounts.  I made friends on my own and eventually gained a sense of independence.  I could live on my own, hold my own job and could demand independence and privacy from my parents.  I created fresh email accounts and opened my own accounts and started over.  And I actually *like* my parents!  I just consider them an extreme case of helicopter parents.  My father took a long time to understand atheism but he’s come to terms with it after careful reasoning.  He has shifted to an almost deist view himself but he still has “spoken with” the hindu gods and hence believes in some of the mythology.  My mom on the other hand simply accepted my views as a product of immersion in US culture and doesn’t push it too much.  She’d rather have me still talking to her than piss me off by forcing religion on me.  Once you have independence, then you have leverage.  You can make an easier transition, one step at a time by saying things like “I don’t want to go to mosque” and later “I don’t want to pray every day” and even later “I’m going to date a boy”.  Your dad’s bouts of suicidal thoughts can be considered manipulative, but you can also see them as someone genuinely not knowing what he’d do if he thinks he’s failed as a father.  Everytime you get strong and independent, that is him failing at his goal in life of raising a proper muslim girl.  He is chained into that role as much as (if not more than) you are.  My father is similarly confused about me, now that I married someone white who he didn’t select.  He feels like I’ve robbed him of purpose, which is a pretty cruel thing to do and yet I needed to stand up for my independence.  He’s still getting over it and its hard, but because I did this gradually and he could see that I was still successful and hardworking and virtuous, it made the burden easier to bear.  It’s different for you seeing as you’re female.  Single successful women aren’t seen in the same light as single successful (but perhaps deviant) men.  But your father might still love you and it might work out.  He’s being immersed in western society too and all these little things have cumulative impacts.

Brave it through college.  Make sure your siblings have similar exit opportunities.  Then move out and start a career.  You may be told that you aren’t allowed to unless you are married, but you’ll have far more leverage and confidence and independence by then.  It may just tip the situation in your favor without you having to resort to running away, dealing with cops, having to deal with your community etc.

Dear Faithful Reader,

I cannot add to the practical advice given here, but I can hopefully assist you with the guilt and duty you feel for your father’s situation.

I have been a sufferer of severe depression in the past, and as other’s who have been through it can likely attest, I still must monitor myself closely, and use certain skills to avoid going down that road again. In college I was suicidal, and during the last year I was in college (I never got my degree because of these issues), I twice decided to go through with it. First time with a knife to the wrist, second time with pills and an alcohol chaser. I was alone. 

There were many things that I pointed to as contributing to my depression, but what loomed large in my mind were issues with one of my roommates. Intelligent, thoughtful, caring, artistic, and fun — I loved her. But we had problems with our friendship, conflicts that tested our friendship almost to the breaking point. Some of it was my fault, some of it hers, some of it no one’s fault at all. Sometimes I didn’t think she was doing enough to support me with my depression. Yes, I admit that I sometimes tried to manipulate her and others. Eventually, she decided that she didn’t want to be my roommate anymore when our lease was over. Despite our issues, I’d thought that living with her was the first time I’d felt at home, so to be kicked out? Hurt, to put it mildly. 

So, when I put the knife to my wrist, or when I swallowed those pills? Not her fault. She had pushed me away and refused to be responsible for my depression, and she was right. I made the choice, not her. It was not her choice, or my mother’s, or the school’s, or anyone else’s. It was mine, and only mine. Maybe some of those stressors contributed, but in the end if I had finished making the cut, or swallowed enough pills to do the job, it would’ve been on my head and mind alone. No one else can make that choice for you.

The reason I’ve put this out there in public is because you need to know, from one who’s been there, that if your father ever commits suicide (and I hope that never happens), there is no blame that can be laid on you. That choice is his. Don’t fear him spiraling further into depression if you leave, because the skills to deal with that are his as well. There are resources out there that can teach him those skills if they are somehow lacking. You have been there for him, and deserve honor and respect for that. You do not deserve to be trapped as you are. 

By the way, being kicked out by that roommate? Best thing she could have done. It kicked me where I needed to be kicked.

Seconded — kinda want an answer, it’s been bothering me all day.

I’m kind of uncomfortable with the above two posts.

I just want to make the point here that not all people who commit suicide – or threaten committing suicide – are trying emotional extortion. Nor are all people who consider suicide only in that position because of chemicals in their brain.
The writer of the letter has my every sympathy – the only reason I haven’t written a reply is because I haven’t a clue of anything I could offer that might help. I’m completely out of my depth.

However, in trying to reassure her, can we please not demonise another already stigmatised group?

Incidentally, I think it is clear from the letter that the writer has nothing to begrudge herself about when it comes to her father. I’m not disagreeing with that one iota.

Dear Reader,

Please do keep us updated on your situation.

Dear Faithful Reader,
There’s not much I can think of to write that Richard, Avicenna, and Selfification haven’t already written.  I especially agree with the suggestions to get an education and to make plans for the future.  If there’s been any violence or if you’re in immediate danger, leave right away, of course.In my own experience (and this is, of course, not universal) some parents try to get their daughters married right after they feel their daughter has completed enough education.  So, if they’re not interested in girls getting a college education, they may try to get her married right out of high school.  If they support girls getting a college education, they might get her married right out of college or engaged even  before college ends.  If your parents are supportive of you going to college, maybe that will give you more time to plan as well as giving you the education you need to support yourself once you leave, etc.  but you’ll still have to make a stand at some time — the moment can be delayed, but it’ll come sooner or later.  (Until that time does come, be careful who you share secrets with, especially within the community.  I once told a secret to a couple of family friends, whose parents are friends with my parents, and now I worry that my parents will find out.)There is this absurd version of family loyalty in our culture that demands that children be loyal their parents but does not expect parents to respect their children’s rights.  You’re being given great responsibility but not the rights and decision-making power that should go along with it.  In the ideal situation, you’d want to both be honest and stay close to your family, but that’s not always possible.  You’re the best judge of how you think your family would react, so you have to make your decisions accordingly.  Please know, though, that if you must leave in order to get away from a family that’s manipulating you, they’re the ones who caused the problem, not you.I sympathize with your feeling of responsibility for taking care of your parents.  My parents are ill, and I’ll probably be the one to take care of them in the future.  The main thing to remember, though, is that your father’s own actions aren’t your fault.  Rather than appreciating that he has a daughter who cares so much for him in his time of need, he’s manipulating you.  It sounds like you know what you believe but are having trouble acting on those beliefs because of feelings of guilt that have been instilled in you by your religion and family.  I wish I could tell you some magical formula that will give you the courage to act on your convictions, but lacking such courage myself, I don’t know what to say except please stay safe and all the best.

(On a more personal note to Richard, Avicenna, and Selfification:  Your advice has given me a lot to think about for my own life as well.  Though my situation is not as bad as Faithful Reader’s, some of your advice is relevant, so I just wanted to say thanks.)

Maybe youcan convince your parents to let you stay in a dorm at your college. Phrase it less like moving out and more like you’ll be staying at school to be close to your classes and study without distractions and you’ll be back home often. Wean them off the idea of keeping you home until you get married. Say you want to learn to cook/clean for yourself, it’ll make you a good wife or something. Granted, I don’t understand your situation at all, these people would kill you sooner than have you believe differently than them, but it’s worth a try if you have an otherwise normal relationship.

Studying in Europe you should be able to transfer to another country and another university/polytechnic to study as long as you have your records from the place you’re studying in now. If you don’t want to leave the country you’ve grown up in there are plenty of safe houses for women and at least some countries have specialized homes for victims of religious persecution.

 If it’s that critical to cover your tracks, and you have the time, just take the hard drive with you.  They’re designed to be easy to take out, and they can’t recover files from media they don’t have.

@bc60828428ebaa9bf07541b2a485e246:disqus 

I was commenting in the context of using threat of suicide as a form of emotional blackmail.

I certainly did not intend to trivialize the kind of severe depression that can lead to suicide, nor credible and non-blackmailing suicide attempts themselves.

I also did not intend to trivialize related subjects, such as assisted suicide for terminally ill people – although in that context ‘sucicide’ may not even be the right word. Eric McDonald discusses this issue far more capably and persuasively than than I, so I add the link here.

If I came over as callous or trivializing on these related subjects in my earlier comment then I was very, very mistaken to have worded things the way I did.

If you feel that my post above and this elaboration here are insufficient to establish my intent clearly, then I am very willing to go back and re-word my initial comment on this subject. It’s an important one to get right.