This Movie’s in the Correct Category…

Haha… I don’t know why they even carry that crap. Meanwhile, they’re missing a boatload (or ‘arkload’) of great movies out there.

This Movie’s in the Correct Category…

I didn’t know that the iTunes store included a trash can.

This is exactly what keeps me from identifying with Atheists.  Someone makes a movie which you don’t agree with, and you brush it away with dismissive terms like “mindless.”  I know you’ve convinced yourselves that evolution is the only intelligent way to look at things, which is actually quite ignorant in itself.  I think an open mind is a  better stance.  But this movie actually had a very good interview in it which explained that you don’t have to be a Christian or Biblical Creationist to believe in Intelligent Design.  If someone mentions ID you just assume immediately that they must be Christian. I thought Ben Stein had some interesting interviews in the movie.  But since you’ve labelled Ben Stein as an idiot for opposing your monolithic theory of evolution, you don’t seem to be able to even glean a few good things from the movie.   Atheists seem to like to label those they disagree with first, and then it seems like they have  favorite insults they like to throw ( which usually includes words like idiots and mindless) at them.  For such self-avowed individualists, you sure act like a gang of thugs trying to find security in their like-minded pack.

 
It’s not us that disagrees with it, it’s reality.  The dismissive attitude is usually just a more calming reaction than the outrage we should and often do feel about such people trying to cripple children’s educations by teaching them such things. Evolution is the only intelligent way to look at things, since the only other options are various degrees of magic. I have an open mind in the sense that if anyone were to actually demonstrate magic in a repeatable and verifiable manner that I’d believe it, but somehow I’m not really expecting that to happen. If someone mentions ID I believe they are probably a Christian, but there’s a possibility that they are not. But they are overwhelmingly creationist, since ID as a term and idea was thought up to dress up creationism in cargo cult science and try to sneak it into non-religious areas like public schools. There are a handful of people that are ID but not creationists, but they mostly get swept under the rug since they tend to be all about aliens.I do think Ben Stein is an idiot for opposing the theory of evolution for the same reasons I’d think someone was an idiot for opposing the theory of gravity or a heliocentric model of the solar system. We are individualists, but we have joined in an online community because of our similar beliefs and opinions on certain specific subjects. We don’t all feel the same way about ID because we’re part of an atheist community, we joined an atheist community because of how we feel about ID and creationism. (not just those two items obviously, but those are the ones relevant to this discussion.
 

I really do feel that I have an open mind. I’ve looked at, considered, and rejected all of the major points and arguments used in the movie (and the ID movement as a whole). I really don’t believe that an open mind means you have to accept that all things are possible and that all possibilities are equally likely. You can absolutely identify things as impossible and reject them, even reject them quickly, without being close minded. Otherwise the “You should have an open mind” argument could be used in support of literally anything. From the teacup orbiting Mars to an international wire fraud scam.

This has nothing to do with atheists. The film really is mindless. Have you seen it?

I went to see it with some friends when it was in theaters. One of the friends had a negative view of Dawkins from general things he had heard about Dawkins and came away with a positive view in reaction to the film’s pisspoor attempts to portray him negatively. 

The movie contained direct falsehoods and misleading statements about what happened to various ID proponents it claimed were persecuted (a fun exercise is to go see the sections of the movie that talk about Sternberg and Gozalez and see how many misleading or outright false statements there are.)

Then there was the plagiarism issues which almost sunk them.

And then there was everything else wrong with the movie. Criticizing directed panspermia by showing stock footage of 1950s aliens? And criticizing theories of abiogenesis that involve crystal structures by showing stock footage of a medium with a crystal ball? Seriously? I’ve seen 12 year olds come up with more serious issues.

The whole thing was an utter waste. 

And no, if we here ID we don’t “assume” that the person is Christian. That would be stupid given that Ben Stein is Jewish. But, it is fair to assume that the vast majority of ID proponents (pretty much almost everyone other than Berlinski) is some form of religious individual who is using ID as apologetics to try to hijack science with their religion or to get their religion into public schools. 

The basic fact is that while some people in the rank-and-file may have been duped into thinking that ID is valid science, there’s nothing there. ID was constructed for one basic reason: to get a new form of creationism into the public schools in the US. That’s why ID shows up right after the US Supreme Court said that creation science could not be taught in public schools. That’s why one early draft of the ID textbook “Of Pandas and People” had the amazing transitional form “cdesign proponentsists”. If you think that ID is anything other than a scam, please read the Dover decision. 

Before condemning the community, it might be a good idea to educate yourself, Kirby.  ALL of Ben Stein’s points in “Expelled” have been widely and thoroughly debunked or exposed as intentional distortions.  The refuting literature is copious and ubiquitous.  No one has “brushed it away with dismissive terms.”  It IS mindless.  The reason that this community refers to it as “mindless” is because they continue to make the same vacuous assertions, even when their errors have been exposed.  The movie distorts facts, uses quotes out-of-context and, in some cases, just lies outright.  Had you made any effort, as a Skeptic, to verify the claims of the movie, instead of lapping them up like a naive kitten at a milk bowl, you could have saved yourself the embarrassment of posting a message that serves only to herald your ignorance.

   Kirby, besides the obvious intellectual dishonesty such as the over-the-top attempt to connect atheism to Nazis, the filmmakers editing the answers given by prominent scientists (while excluding the exact question being asked) so they either distorted or completely misrepresented the answers of those agreeing to an interview in good faith. 

Scientists like PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins (and others) were intentionally mislead as to the exact nature of the film. When PZ Myers attempted to attend the premiere he was not even allowed in the theatre.  Stein’s sad attempt at belittling scientific ideas and scientists when the “facts” he presents are twisted out of context is vile.
   
Other scientists and educators in the film who whined about losing their jobs due to their religious beliefs is simply untrue.  Yes, their views stand out as silly given their fields of study, but the reason these professionals were let go or denied tenure had more to do with proper procedure or simple lack of professional achievement in their positions.  The fact some held irrational views was simply a point of disagreement (and maybe ridicule among fellow academics). But I repeat: creationist belief wasn’t given as a reason for the professors losing their jobs.  It’s sour grapes.

    The makers and “star” (ha! right) of that celluloid abortion known as Expelled lied, obfuscated, and slandered throughout the film.

Maybe you should check out http://www.expelledexposed.com/

It’s a site set up by the National Center for Science Education.  Or do a search on PZ’s Myers blog Pharyngula.  Just type in “Expelled” or “Ben Stein”.

“If someone mentions ID you just assume immediately that they must be Christian.”

Not at all.  At least Biblical creation is a thesis.  It posits that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 days etc. etc.

ID just says “Evolution is wrong”.  It doesn’t present anything itself.  So sure, maybe we’re living in The Matrix.  So what?  We can’t investigate that.  We can investigate evolution, and better our understanding.

I was so happy when our local library moved “Expelled” to the FICTION section! (^_^)

This is quite possibly the funniest thing I’ve read in months. Oh god, that laughing fit felt good.

Thanks!

ID is entirely Christian. Other religions like Islam believe in outright Creationism.

ID though is just Creationism with the explicit references to god removed, in an attempt to be able to teach it in schools. In one case they took a book, removed all mentions of god and republished it.