Give a Man Enough Rope and He’ll Eventually Hang Himself

So those kids are being idiots. But, y’know, I don’t feel very much like gloating over that. Lots of us did incredibly stupid things once and then grew the hell up and got over it. It sucks that these kids are always going to be google-able at one of their worst moments.

Just wanted to say I saw a bit of you on Fox (via Gawker) and while I am a believer, I completely respect your position and think that you helping out on the clean up is a wonderful thing. Good on you.

I like Claudia’s idea. But I differ in one respect. My 6yo has more emotional maturity than those three put together. I hope their parents are embarrassed. Because it would be even more disturbing if they weren’t.

Doing stupid destructive or offensive things in the name of Atheism only reenforces the negative views society has on us already. Like I said before, they just set Atheists back another 50 years. Thanks douchebags!

“You just…don’t…get it, do ya?” 😉

Hemant, I thought you were a high school teacher. Isn’t doing dumb things part of being a teenager? I tend to worry more about the ones that are too self conscience to act out and take risks. Those are the ones acting like sheep in the churches you write about.

Someone should probably tell the prefontal cortext that it needs to be done by one’s 18th birthday.

The biology doesn’t EXCUSE their behaviour, nor will the law. I’m saying don’t judge their idiocy as character flaws. This idiocy should pass.

wow, you are really digging into them act making it out like they are way worse than they actually are.

what they did was stupid. It wasn’t art. They’re full of themselves. They didn’t come off sounding just plain stupid, I don’t know what you’re talking about there… It was irresponsible but they weren’t being destructive. They were making a point, but did it in a very poor way.

Lots of people do stupid things when they’re ~18. Wanting to physically assault children and hoping they never get a job because of a googleable stupid thing they did at 18 is really harsh.

On a positive note this is a great thing to bring up in job interviews as a lesson learned. Assuming that they do learn from it.

I think that these kids could use a little understanding. They are teenagers, in a relatively small town, in America… which means that these kids have been bombarded by these churches for probably their whole lives. They don’t understand yet how to be a “friendly” type of atheist because at this point they fall into a demographic that the churches aggressively target (gotta get ’em while they’re young). They made a mistake, but it seems that from their point of view it was retaliatory, an act against an oppressor, which when you’re an atheist teen is unfortunately true. One day they will find that there are supportive people in the world, people who understand, they’ll find better ways to act against that oppressor, if we offer them our understanding now.

Thankfully, I grew up mostly in the pre-Internet era, so none of my idiotic acts will be documented forever. I mean, I don’t think I ever set out to do anything illegal, but had I been caught in the middle of one of my “practical jokes”, my childish pranks would have been forever enshrined.

Point being, every teenager probably has some logically-questionable acts they’ve committed; while these kids (yes, I do think they are still “kids”) did a horrible job attempting to justify their actions, I do feel a shred of pity that this will follow them.

…and I do think this post came down a wee bit too harsh. Yikes.

Yet Another Atheist Says:
June 21st, 2011 at 8:53 am

These “kids being kids” were 18 years old. They’re not kids at all; they’re adults. They are fully responsible for their own actions.

Doing dumb things may be part of being a teenager, but by 18 you should have enough common sense to not do stupid illegal shit like this. That’s why 18-year-olds are expected to be mature enough to sign contracts, live on their own, and be legally responsible for their own actions.

I think you greatly over-estimate the average 18 year old.

Perhaps I shouldn’t speak for all of them, but I certainly was having a great time at the University of Georgia when I was 18, and breaking a few laws along the way.

I’ve got to admit, that Sirius Black picture was pretty funny.

I was a helluva lot worse than these kids could ever be. Yeah, they’re being boneheads, no big deal. Put them to work doing public service and ask them to apologize in person to the pastor(s) and congregation(s) effected by their silliness. That should learn ’em.

I think they’re just acting like silly teenagers. Not that it means what they did is okay. I remember being that age, and me and lots of other older teenagers sometimes did stupid things like that, out of a need to be “revolutionary,” make the masses think, that sort of thing. Haha, it seems so foolish and pathetic now, but a lot of teens are that way. They’ll most likely grow out of it and then think, “my God, wasn’t I a dork?” which makes it unfortunate that someone a few years from now could find this on Google. I would hate for my boss to find things I did when I was 17 on Google because I’m not the same person now I was then.

They’re teenagers who did something stupid. I don’t fault their stated intentions or their target, and they’ve made a statement admitting guilt. Let it go already.

And while they did make a mess for someone else to clean up, they also gave us (Hemant) an opportunity to show a large national audience that many atheist humanist adults can go out of our way to help out even organizations we despise.

Personally, I would never give any assistance of any kind to any faith-based organization under any circumstance. Certainly not to one which extorts money from its members by threats of (posthumous) torture. But those of you who did made us all look good.

I’m a bit confused. What crime did these kids commit? As I understand it, the “paint” was washable, so there was no permanent damage. How is it, then, any different in concept from advertising flyers put on a car or doorknob?

They had a message to convey, they did so in a nondamaging way. They are being kind of toolbags about it, but I understand neither the arrest nor the vitriol from Hemant.

for goodness sake, they committed an act of childish vandalism. They didn’t hurt anyone, or make anyone afraid, they spread some paint around on a building that probably preaches bigotry against gays, and maybe even puts up anti-gay billboards.

These boys are going to suffer the consequences for a long time, and you seem to be gloating about it (something I find somewhat distasteful)

Please put their crime in perspective and compare it with the behaviours of those “good” Xians against those they disapprove of.

I’m glad to see that the “hang ’em high” mentality seemingly espoused in the article isn’t too prevalent among the readers here. It’s a destructive and self-righteous mentality based on personal emotional needs, and nothing else. I’m certainly NOT excusing what they did because a church was the target.

The vandals were not clever, or revolutionary, thought-provoking, or even particularly creative. They were stupid, mildly destructive, and inconsiderate of their fellow citizens….and that’s just about it.
Let me know when they reach the level of mendacity and selfishness of the average right-wing politician, or even non-partisan city council member, or even a shoplifter, and maybe I’ll get all mad and climb up on my high horse too!

I understand the impulse to hold people to a higher standard when they might reflect badly on oneself or one’s group, even if that bad reflection is unfair and undeserved(as it almost always is)….but Hemant seems to want to make them responsible for further sullying the good name of all atheists…which is unfair and ridiculous. Those are the kind of stupid standards that religious fanatics and far-right conservative bigots espouse, and sounds more than a little like the way some religious groups treat the “backsliders” and apostates in their ranks-more concern for the “image” of the tribe than the people who compose the tribe or the rules that govern the tribe. NO THANK YOU.

And for the record, I don’t get all twisted up when religious kids do mean and stupid things either, unless there are real victims that are actually harmed. Unless there is a pattern of intentional harrassment, poster paint on a door and window isn’t even at the level of a good toilet papering. The Horror!

I also give a little leeway in certain situations…although one can’t be sure of their situation without further details. From my own experience growing up in small towns full of pious ignoramuses, quite a bit of pressure can build up, especially in the young. I would give the same additional leeway to a young christian, jew, or muslim who acted out in response to constant “othering”. I can’t say that has anything to with this situation, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

I have no problem with these vandals facing the full fair consequences of their actions. But from what I’ve seen in America, I am more concerned about them getting a much stiffer punishment than a run-of-the-mill vandal or even a religious bigot targeting non-religious people would receive. People who can pose as “lapsed” christians, or who feign enough remorse are often given lighter sentences, and poeple like these kids, whose motive seems to spring from disrespect of social norms often get harsher sentences, regardless of how much damage was done or how right the kids might be in their lack of respect. Anytime one is on the “wrong side” of popular opinion, especially where religion is involved, courts often find ways to punish extra for the “disprespect” instead of punishing for the crime itself, a kind of “hate crimes” metality that only protects self-righteous majorities. I hope that the media attention in this case is enough to keep that from happening.