What Would You Want Young Atheists to Know?

I agree with Claudia. Russell’s Teapot should be understood by all people.

I’d add that correlation does not equal cause. Even if two facts seem to go together that doesn’t mean that they do. As piracy has decreased the planet’s temperature has increased. That doesn’t mean that the two have any connection.

Finally religion isn’t necessarily why some religious people do bad things. Priests who rape children don’t do so in the name of their faith and Marxists who killed people didn’t do so because they failed to believe in gods. Religion may be an excuse that they use to justify their actions (good ones as well as bad) but as atheists we won’t have that justification to use. So we can give to charity because we want to help people and not because the gods demand tribute and we can drown kittens because there are too many of the verminous little animals around. We own our actions, good and bad.

I’m not sure of your position on the skeptic movement versus atheist movement. They are both important and suggesting some skeptic topics (logical fallacies, evidence, science in general) can be fun. I personally enjoy name that logical fallacy.

I’ve always thought sociology was one of the most important subjects to atheism. It can tie in to community service really easily. You might ask what has sociology found about a specific issue? Why should an atheist care about that specific issue (all we’ve got is our society)? and what can we do about it (community service)? It might also make for good fliers to get people to join.

Don’t let your beliefs define you if people ask you tell them the truth but don’t make it a huge part of your identity. You will lose some friends but the ones that remain are the ones you should appreciate and value.

They should know of the vibrant freethought tradition of America from enlightenment thinkers, from abolitionists to feminists, from actors to songwriters, from objectivists to communists,from blacks to latinos, etc. They should read some Ingersoll in order to dispel this Gnu Atheist myth. They should enjoy the poetry of Walt Whitman, the novels of Samuel Clemens, and the songs of Yip Harburg. There is just so much out there. I, for instance, am going to be reading Jonathan Livingston Seagull by Richard Bach.

Firstly, I wish I’d known as a student the likely consequences of picking religious arguments with the overwhelmingly religious student body at our school. If I’d known ahead of time that reason doesn’t hold sway with most people I probably wouldn’t have been so adamant defending my beliefs. What’s more, such arguments brought me nothing but strife.

But second, they also need to know that it gets better when you move to a coastal college.

They should know that there are people, who are good people in nearly every sense of the word, who will hate them in all but name and will work against giving them the rights afforded to everyone else in contradiction to law, ethics and even logic. All too often these people are close to us. Running into that wall can be one of the most hurtful and frustrating events in one’s life.
They should know that there are people who do the opposite, who act for their good despite their beliefs, who ensure their rights despite being certain that they are mistaken. These are rarer.
They should be fully aware of the possible perils of being “out” and they should be fully aware of the benefits, too. They should, in other words, know enough to choose their course wisely.

Be strong in your conviction but don’t error in the same way the christians do in attempting to force your ideals. I live in a southern town outside of a large city and i am tolerant of there beliefs but have had my house vandalized numerous times by so called christians. There will be trying times when someone provokes you to the limits of violence just remain calm and remember that is what they want from you to validate the steriotypes in there mind.

I would like to tell a young atheist that religion isn’t nearly as monolithic as it seems to them right now. There are even gigantic differences in belief from neighbor to nieghbor even though they don’t talk about it.

And no matter what anybody tells them, we absolutely do not “all believe in the same god.”

I also second everybody who’s said that atheism should be grounded in skepticism. It’s incredibly important to have reasons for believing and not believing everything.

I’m with NoYourGod:

Don’t proselytize. Few people like to be told by strangers “You are WRONG in your beliefs.”

I have NEVER seen an atheist convince someone to forsake their religion in a debate. Don’t try. You won’t win. They won’t like you.

However, if you share ideas in a honest and open way – sincerely listening to their side – you may plant the seeds that will cause them to think more deeply. At the very least, they will be more open/tolerant towards atheists based on the positive interaction.

Oh. One other thing. I have been an atheist for a while, but haven’t read anything other than a few blogs.

I was blown away by some of the OLD cartoons that you’ve shown. Really opened my eyes. Helped to highlight that atheism isn’t new. And, we can’t just assume that things will get better without action.

First Pete Stark isn’t non-religious since he does list himself as a UU; he is an atheist (the UUs have no trouble with this).

My high school library back in the 70’s got the Skeptical Inquirer. It might be a good start for discussions. Several of Bertrand Russell’s essays might be provocative (e.g., Why I am not a Christian).

Jeff’s tip of saying that it’s okay to admit it when you don’t know the answer is great, it’s something I try to instill in all my students. I’d like to add my own – that you get to absolutely be yourself and to have to hide anything or pretend to be anything you’re not. Atheism isn’t a club with membership rules, the only thing that binds is together is disbelief in gods. Your age, race, gender, sexual orientation, political views, taste in music, shoe size and everything else don’t matter. Be yourself and be honest, we’ll love you for it.

That they will need to know how to formulate and present an argument. Sign ’em all up for the debate team.

The primary goal, when dealing with other people, should be gaining acceptance as fellow human beings. This means:
– Not having to defend your beliefs, just like adherents to other faiths don’t need to justify theirs.
– Not needing to tolerate abuse stemming solely from their atheism. This includes both questioning their patriotism as well as their moral character.
– Not receiving more proselytization attempts than other people. ‘Atheist’ doesn’t mean ‘undecided’.
– Not being ostracized, either directly by fellow students or by parents that won’t let their kids meet up with atheists.
– Not being treated differently the day after they come out than they were treated the the day before.
If you can convince your friends atheism should be treated like any other religious beliefs, that’s a win in my book.

Keep your eyes on the prize. Think 20, 200, 2,000, and 2,000,000 years hence. The women who started the movement to get to vote were all dead when their goal was accomplished. Work for a planet that supports human life, animals, and freethinkers 2,000,000 million years from now and beyond.

I hope this isn’t too much of a downer but the first thing that came to my head was:

– Religious people are NOT stupid. Religion is often a crafty and insidious idea that can turn a person’s own rationality and intelligence against them. Don’t feel that you are superior to them because you don’t share their dogma, feel lucky that you are free from indoctrination and feel sorry for those that still suffer needlessly under it.

Know your history. You will often run into people that will lie or bend the truth to further their argument. As an example, it has become popular to rewrite American history to portray it with a Christian slant. Fallacies such as arguments from authority cause Christian debaters to latch on to Einstein and claim him as their own (usually by carefully cherrypicking quotes and omitting the rest of his words). So I’d also suggest you understand logical fallacies and avoid them yourself.

If the religiosity of the USA gets too much for you, come to Europe instead (though maybe not Italy).

In the secular states of Europe atheism isn’t such an issue: there isn’t an assumption that everybody is Xain, and god is kept as far out of the law as we can make it (with some failures).

It’s unfortunate that the USA is superstitious to the point of obsession, and that only Xains are perceived as decent, trustworthy people.

I hope eventually that the USA moves into the 20C and the majority begins to understand what the separation clause entails.

Well, for one, I would say that you are going to have to know religion, history, and philosophy better than theists. You start picking a lot of these things up by default if you try having logical debates, particularly because you will hear the same crap over and over and over and learn how to debunk it like a champ.

Next point-look it up. None of us, even the brilliant scientists like PZ, know everything. If you do not know, say you do not know, but do not always stop there. Go look it up and learn about it. Also, to link this one my first point, learn what the “god of the gaps fallacy” is for when theists try the “we don’t know”=goddidit line.

Third, do not make it your job to be the anti-stereotype, make it your job to be a good person. Oppressed groups are not the problem that causes stereotypes-ignorant privileged people are. Do good things because they are good things, not because they make you look good. Do not assume that a trait is bad in you or in someone else simply because it conforms to a stereotype-for example, while not all atheists are scientists, there is nothing wrong with being a scientist, an atheist, or both at once.

Fourthly, try not to have a double standard where you judge minority religions more harshly than majority ones. I am not saying to give them a free pass either, but be aware that there is a history of prejudice against Jews and Muslims in this country that there is not in regards to mainline Christianity. Ask yourself, when you go to criticize “would I say this about a white American Christian man” to check some of your biases around these issues. If you are not going to assume that all violence in the Congo comes from the fact that it has a massive Christian majority, do the same favor to Muslims in the UAE.

“Know that there are two kinds of people in life: Those that, when they hear a great piece of music, sit down and cry because they know the music will soon be over. Those that, when they hear the same great music, want to get up and dance.”

…and that’s how I got banned from the local cinema. Ba-dum-tsss!

How to keep your rationality in stressful situations. Words of comfort based in reality, like the stoics or epicurians.

Religions prey (nice pun) on vulnerable people in times of crisis. I work in a hospital where there is a corp of chaplains ready to interpret the narrative of any tragedy into a mind numbing need to submit to God & have faith in “His Plan”. The waiting rooms are full of brochures on cancer, end of life issues, death, grief, addiction, fear & depression with a single, saccharine pill cure: religion.

Secular philosophy has better, reality based comfort. No one has access to it. SSA gets kids on campus thinking clearly, but as soon as they are emotionally vulnerable, religion takes hold.

I strongly encourage that they read the works of Dr. Jonathan Haidt (http://people.virginia.edu/~jdh6n/), a moral psychologist whose work will help them understand that morality is not an external force emanating from a god, but an internal force resulting from human biology and sociology. Also, his work helps to understand the different moral worldviews of liberals and conservatives, and will help explain why some among the faithful will hate and despise them (world without end) and others can accept them as friends.

Second, I encourage them to be honest and forthright, to not back down, but to not seek fights. You can’t win the battle of hearts and minds with bombast and zealotry, and you certainly won’t win any friends. Instead, be honest about your beliefs, be friendly and caring and supportive, but never relent in the face of overwhelming opposition and hatred.

In short, be something those who hate you aren’t; be a good Christian.

Finally, some perspective, a list of the people America hates, in order:
6. Christians who aren’t like them.
5. Various other religions.
4. Jews.
3. Muslims.
2. Homos.
1. Atheists. (We’re number one!)

Be proud. Atheism is an old and honorable tradition. There have always been atheists. We have been around longer than all religions. We have been ostracized, persecuted, tortured and killed because we stood up for reason. And we will be here when all religion has been consigned to history.

Oh, and Christians might tell you you’re going to hell, so just tell them you don’t believe in it. This “argument” shows one of two things:

First, the person is just angry/irritated/etc. and wants to bash you or show (s)he is superior, etc.;

or, second, that the person believes because of Pascal’s Wager, in which case you can point out other religious hells, like Tartarus.

Also, be prepared for teachers, parents, etc. Be ready to defend why you’re doing what you’re doing, etc. This is very touchy, so don’t go over-board and start yelling or something.

1) you are not alone, they are part of that 16% of the population that believes as they do.
2)the only real difference btw them and monotheists is that nontheists believe on one less god then they do.
3)expect right-wingers to make outrageous statements, be cool, try to remember that sometimes they just say stuff to upset you.
4)Doctors Without Borders is a secular organization that does a lot of good things all over the world, and they do so w/o wasting time preaching about the virgin birth of jesus
5)Know the secular origins and nature of our Constitution.
Good luck with the new group-we need more of them!

It’s okay to not be perfect. It’s okay to not be okay sometimes.
You see, religions come with really great narratives to help people not have to deal with some of the more.. bleak aspects of life. There’s a Someone out there with a Plan who Loves You Very Much, everything’s going to be okay in the end, and at the end of your life you die and have an eternity of a great big hug with everyone you loved.
If you’re leaving religion, sometimes the hardest thing is when you go through a really tough time, you remember back when you were able to fall back on myths like that, and you know that you can’t anymore. That shit happens, that there’s no guarantees, and that there ain’t no big hug in the sky. Most of the time that’s just an inspiration to work hard at figuring out what you want to do and being kind to others while you can. Sometimes, though? It sucks.
And that’s okay. There’s no atheist rule that says you’ve gotta be optimistic and happy and rational about everything the whole time. You’re allowed to be confused, you’re allowed to be scared. You’re allowed to think it’s unfair. And in the middle of the night, even though you know it’s bullshit, you’re allowed to miss the days when you were a kid and you knew there was a magic guy in the sky making everything okay.
The thing that nobody told you, when you were growing up in religion? You don’t need those myths to feel better. Seriously. Existential crises and the bleaker aspects of life are godawful things, but you would be amazed at how they retreat within minutes of popping on the kettle or cracking open a few beers with some like-minded friends*.

*I’m Irish. I may have gotten rid of the catholicism, but nothing is gonna shift my conviction that tea and/or booze will solve the vast majority of life’s problems.

befriend people without discrimination. Have friends who believe different things. You will be challenged and you will be forced to learn more about what you believe.

I would want them to know how different adulthood is for some of those evangelical teens that work their nerves on a daily basis. In short, some of the most obnoxious become Atheists. The bravery of their visibility matters and their patience with Christians, and others, can have a lasting impact.
This is not to say you should heed to them and their nonsense demands, just try to understand even when they can’t. It can make your lives easier in both the short and long term. And If you are having a dark day you can always make mental bets about which ones will go Atheist by 21, to lighten your mood.

I encourage young people to question everything. And anything that can’t stand up to questioning should be disregarded.

This isn’t just about religion. A reasonable person should question everything – religion, science and politics, just to name a few topics. And also that it’s also necessary to question the answers they get if those answers don’t make sense.

I would caution them. Atheism works fine in some cities. In some counties. If they grew up Atheist they may be surrounded by intelligent people, but young atheists should also be exposed to a discussion of the assaults – physically, financially, emotionally, that religious people often perpetrate. Out atheists can face severe discrimination. Should they make a point of it on Facebook? Will a potential employer be turned off? Might a client be lost? Should your atheism ever be hidden? I wouldn’t tell young atheists much except to tell them to talk, share, study and learn.

I didn’t read the whole thread but “Don’t proselytize. Few people like to be told by strangers “You are WRONG in your beliefs.” was one of the important things I wanted to say. You will probably never change a religious person’s beliefs during a debate. Hating on religious people over and over IS JUST AS BAD as a religious person saying “atheists are dumb, wayward, and bad people”. Belief or lack of belief does not show their true colours either way. It’s probably one of the most irritating things new or young atheists do. Yes I’m atheist too, but using someone’s religion to dismiss their arguments just makes you look like a fool. By default, treat everyone like a human not their religion. Once an asshole comes out of the woodwork you can go to town all you like.

Also: be involved. If you see bias towards religion in secular institutions, speak up.

Be fluid in your beliefs, on anything really. Always read and learn about new developments in science and reason. Don’t be afraid to admit you don’t know something.

Know that the US was NOT founded in Christianity. It’s a widely common belief, but be aware and have evidence.

Everyone should judge people based on their character and behaviour, not their beliefs.

If you’re not comfortable with the word ‘atheist’, just say “I think that when we die, we die…just like all other living things on this planet.”  If someone says “How do you know that there’s no God?”, you can say “I don’t KNOW there isn’t one (or more than one).  I don’t believe that there is one for the same reason that I don’t believe in Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster – no empirical evidence.