We Don’t Have To Fear Death

I fully agree with you. The concept of a heavenly reward is ironically stopping people from living life to the fullest. I read the article about that sex survey and frankly I was disgusted by religion; people are made to live with guilt for doing something that is natural and pleasurable. The fact that religion keeps people from enjoying their one life as fully as they can (and I’m not just talking about sex here; people can use religion to justify almost anything) is one of the most important reasons why I oppose it.

Einstein was a self proclaimed agnostic but even if he were religious man it proves nothing. It is an appeal to authority, in this case a false one.

Anyway I don’t believe that it is particularly healthy to believe in an afterlife. It gives a person false hope and denies them part of the mourning process when a loved one dies. In addition the concept of hell is simply revolting and those who believe in it should be freed from that kind of self perpetuating terror.

All I’m saying is it’s okay to be afraid of death, and believing in something that comes after life — be that Heaven or something else — is a comfort to many of us. So what? If it helps us cope more with the inevitable, why shouldn’t we have that?

This is the one argument I simply fail to get every time I see it. “I believe it because it gives me comfort”? Say what? You mean you can actually will yourself to believe something just to make you feel good? Why not believe you will shortly win 1 billion dollars?

The way I always suppose the brain works is that you justify a belief because it’s true. How can this not be the basis of any and all beliefs? I mean, I can understand believing something to be true that isn’t true, based on false information, a lack of critical thinking, being lied to, whatever. That much I get. But I just don’t get justifying a belief not based on it’s truth, but on the fact that believing it makes you feel good. How can you be self-aware enough to know that’s why you hold the belief and not automatically lose it?

Oh and as for Einstein, he doesn’t believe in your God, or your heaven either:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

It’s ironic to me that Christians, who supposedly don’t fear death because they’ll be with Jesus and god and in heaven with family (etc etc), are usually the ones keeping their loved ones alive at all costs (as if they fear death –Keep Grandma alive! keep Grandma alive!).

Meanwhile, atheists (who, Christians often say, live in bleak despair and of course fear death because we don’t believe in an afterlife) are the ones who seem much more serene and reasonable when facing end-of-life decisions.

Huh. Odd, isn’t it?

I’m so tired of people thinking that, as an atheist, I must be angry about all the bad things in the world and blaming some god by not believing in any, or that I am empty inside. People say: “I need for this all to mean something.” So they CREATE something fictional because they themselves are empty inside, and can’t find meaning in life as it is. That’s a failing on THEIR part.

It’s refreshing for someone as prominent as Stephen Hawking to reiterate that not believing in an afterlife gives more meaning and purpose to our ACTUAL lives. The mystery and beauty of the world we live in is enough for me. I think I am more optimistic and reverent than any religious person I know.

Believing in an afterlife is bad because it prevents one from fully appreciating and focusing on this life. Who cares about this short life if you believe you can life forever after you die? That’s what drives the “soul winning” programs, and many of those programs say they are helping others, but there is always a primary focus that lingers in the subtle background. Part of the charitable aid that goes to third world countries isn’t translated into food or medicine. Instead part of the money is used to finance the “soul winning” mission.

This of course is a great reason to give to the Foundation Beyond Belief!

Here’s my paraphrasing of Maressa Brown’s statement:

All I’m saying is it’s okay to be afraid of LIFE, and USING OPIUM is a comfort to many of us. So what? If OPIUM helps us cope more with REALITY, why shouldn’t we have that? There’s nothing shameful about USING OPIUM and furthermore, it’s more than possible to ACCEPT THE GIFTS OF SOBER PEOPLE without shrugging off OPIUM.

Using intoxicants or fairy tales to “cope” with life keeps people emotionally immature.

The argument from euphoria, “It feels good to believe it, therefore it is true,” is the thought process of a child. It is essentially the tiny adult in a person admitting that she knows it is untrue, but the huge child in the person is in charge, so shhh, they have to keep pretending and playing the game.

The problem with children being in charge of adult bodies is that they can behave very dangerously if someone threatens to expose the falseness of their fragile little pretend game.

are you insinuating that all beliefs have equal probability ?

No.

All I’m saying is it’s okay to be afraid of the closet monster, and believing that hiding under my blanket grants me protection is a comfort to many of us. So what? If it helps us cope more with irrational fear and lack of control, why shouldn’t we have that?

Some children never grow up.

Way to completely miss the point.

The only reason that anyone is afraid of death is because of the idiots telling them that there is something beyond it. And good grief, once you start thinking like that who knows what might be in store. The idea of an afterlife isn’t a protection against fear of death. It is the only reason to be afraid of death.

There is no fear in death, if you understand that there is no afterwards.

Honestly, Mr. Hawking could have responded without the line at the end. On the other side, Ms. Brown could have been less defensive about the whole thing.
From her side of the argument, instead of invoking someone dead and no longer able to defend himself why not try this approach, “Look Stephen Hawking said we need life after death beliefs because we are afraid of the dark, do you think that’s true?” And come up with some cogent arguments from her readers instead of giving yet another knee jerk reaction.

I have no problem with a general idea of an afterlife. Maybe just some place where everything is nice and you get to meet your friends again. If that’s all it were, there is no problem with it.

I can see the “Just enjoy your life” argument and largely agree with it, but the real problem is of course organized religion stepping in and setting up completely arbitrary conditions on who gets to enjoy that afterlife – or who gets the nice afterlife and who gets eternally tortured. They are using that somewhat understandable desire and hope and shamelessly abuse it to control people.

@Claudia You start by pretending something is true. If you pretend enough, you can convince yourself to believe it (for all intents and purposes). Just take care not to do too much self-reflection, avoid situations where your ‘belief’ might be questioned, and take on the role of victim when someone does manage to challenge it. The justification isn’t really justification of the belief itself, but a justification for not rocking the boat.

What’s wrong with the idea of Heaven if it comforts some people?

Ask Harold Camping’s followers on Sunday.

Some death-related mythologies are charming and fantastical — hence Anubis, the God Yama, the Grim Reaper, the Ferryman or even St. Peter (all the same being?) and are not meant to be taken seriously. However, people have gone to extreme lengths to cheat death or to ease their passing into some mythical afterlife at great expense (from the pyramids and elaborate burials of many ancient cultures, to the life-support systems and costly funerals of today), so these fears are not necessarily harmless. While one should fight like hell to live, the inability to let go and pass away gracefully and with dignity can incur a cost as well.

If the concept of heaven and hell (a primitive conception of the afterlife really, and a huge step back for even theistic thought) is instrumental in judgment, then bigger problems arise. Indeed, even for theists, any morality that is solely dependent on an uncertain afterlife reward or punishment is no morality at all.

I don’t fear my own inevitable death. Just as I don’t get bothered about existing in a gravitational field (holding me down), I also don’t get all bothered about my own mortality. To me, eventually dying is just like gravity… Its natural and part of the way life works. Just as with gravity, I’m use to the concept and don’t become obsessive about it.

Of course, I prefer the living state so I’m very careful to preserve and enjoy my own life and I respect the lives of others.

I don’t think it is healthy to be death (or afterlife) obsessed.

I was on a plane where they suddenly announced to prepare for a crash landing. I was surprised most of all by my own sense of calm.

If the plane had crashed, we likely would have died and I realized it would be sad that my family would be without a husband or father.

But overall I was serene with having lived well in the years I’ve had.

I had zero expectation for any afterlife, and to me, this was calming (especially compared the message the Catholic church gave me in my youth: we humans are all evil and deserve hell…. fire-and-brimstone… and it really exists and the devil is out to get you, etc.).

Pointing out that religious belief gives some people comfort is, as the saying goes, like observing that the drunk man is happier than a sober man.
That doesn’t mean heavy drinking gives you a clearer view of the world. It just temporarily eases anxiety and the burdens of life. And it often ends in a headache.
Believe if you wish, or get drunk if you wish. Just don’t kid yourself that either is a path to great profundity.

If heaven doesn’t exist, it’s not like we’ll be in a position to regret the fact.

Of course belief in heaven can pose problems – like if some terrorists blows stuff up believing he’ll get a reward in the afterlife.

There’s a point where we’re not really criticising people because they’re doing something harmful or bad, but just because we personally think they’re being silly. At which point they’re quite justified in telling us to get stuffed; they’re not obliged to base their beliefs on someone else’s standards of rationality.

I groaned SO loudly when this woman tried to paint Einstein as a believer in an afterlife/religion. So I went to my saved document of REAL quotes by him and found this little ditty!

“I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own — a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.”
(Albert Einstein, Obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955)

whoops double post there, sorry

The concept of ceasing to exist is something I fear. When encountering a situation where I am close to death, I am scared. I’m not okay with the concept that “this is it”. Given the option, I will try to survive as long as possible.

I’ve never understood why so many atheists claim they are not scared of death. I think most are full of it. Having fear of death is a good thing, it keeps us from doing stupid things.

Being afraid of death does not mean one can not accept the inevitable, that more than likely everyone ceases to exist. I’m not one to sell atheism, or try to make it look like something it is not. Atheism is not going to give anyone comfort when facing death of loved ones, or your own. It is just a lack of belief in gods. Many religious people want something to provide them comfort, even if it is a placebo. I prefer facing the most likely scenario, in that there is no afterlife – despite that such scenario provides no comfort.