Member of Atheists of Florida Arrested for Disrupting School Board’s Prayer

cant they pray on their own in the car before the meeting?

It seems this was rather carefully calculated to make a point – the board has been put in a position where they must either admit they were praying during an official government meeting, or they caused to have an individual arrested for interrupting someone else’s conversation. Pretty clever, I’d say. I’d like to see where this goes.

They don’t disappear when the .

They’re still pushing to find out…

er… am I missing something here?

Am I the only one chuckling that Officer Pagan removed the Atheist from the Christian prayer session?

I too can’t wait to see the next step – which I assume is to bring wrongful arrest charges to bear.

I agree with Nicole. The repeated shouting over people like this just has a vibe that doesn’t fit well with me. If you want to get prayer removed, you should do it legally. Shouting over people like this just makes you look crazy. It’s like the guy who shouted “You Lie!” to Obama or the woman who shouted “Except Obama, except Obama! Help us Jesus!” when the senate was quoting the constitution.

America is supposed to be a country that follows the rule of law. You’re supposed to be civilized… Being disruptive like this doesn’t feel civilized at all.

So in reading the disclaimer, any citizen may offer an invocation. This tells me that an Imam as well as a follower from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster may offer an invocation.

It seems to me if they wish to be unreasonable then unreasonable should be allowed for all. I think turning their pre-meeting into a Mardi Gras of invocations – by private citizens of course – would bring the danger of their actions into perspective for them.

-J

So … people are supposed to shout at town hall meetings, but get arrested if they shout before school board meetings. I’ve gotta start writing this stuff down. It gets confusing.

It just seems impolite to interupt someone while they are speaking, even if they are praying.

If this was the first attempt of AoF to protest against prayer in this particular board’s meetings I’m inclined to agree with you. Always start politely. But if they have previously protested in a more circumspect fashion and been ignored, I’d say they were justified in raising the stakes a little.

It hurts me that elected officials can be so ignorant of the law.

There really should be a test required to vote and run for office. I’m sick of complete and utter morons having a say in government.

@Larry Meredith, I disagree that the cases are comparable. Congress was actually in session during the outbursts you mention. The US Congress has very strict procedural rules about who speaks when and for how long when Congress is in session. This School board meeting was not in session. They were specifically and purposefully not in session. They do this to try and find a loop hole with their own borderline illegal activity. Which means that Kieffer’s outburst was legal. And, come on, honestly, peaceful verbal disruption is not likely to be anything beyond a regulatory violation even if the school board had been in session. The level of illegality there is on par with mild speeding while driving or jay walking.

Also, I can’t see how interupting is more rude than having someone arrested.

but, similarly, no one should be arrested for “disorderly conduct” for a “disruption” taking place before a meeting, either.

I think this is a very pertinent point and could be the basis for an unlawful detainment lawsuit. If the meeting hadn’t started, then there was nothing official to disrupt. Being detained and removed for disrupting a non-official religious activity is surely illegal in itself and violation of separation of church and state.

Ok, where do we send money for a defense fund? Actually maybe FFRF or some other organization needs to setup a defense fund that bails out and defends individuals arrested for asserting their rights at public meetings. Maybe it could help us knowing that there is some financial and legal support available if you get lead away in handcuffs for defending your rights.

Was it rude? Yes. Was it disruptive? Yes it was. Was it uncivilized? Absolutely. Could it have been done peacefully? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Many people just don’t understand that one has to stand up, holler, and do whatever they can to get those people’s attention. Does anyone realize that if this guy would have sat quiet until they were through with begging their invisible man and then said something peacefully it would have been blown off and ignored.

I think the timing they had was great.

“So was it AFTER the meeting had started sir?”

“Oh yes yes! He disrupted the meeting!”

“Why were you praying during an official meeting anyway?”

“Oh wait, no, the meeting was ABOUT to be started.”

“Then really he did not disrupt a meeting and there was no legal grounds for his arrest then?”

“……uh…”

Love it. Good job AoF!

According to their local Fox affiliate, Kieffer was taken to jail after being held for an hour at the school.

Upon being booked, a suspicious little white pill was found on his person for which he could not produce a prescription.

As I commented at the article there, I wonder at which point in the arrest did that little white pill appear.

I find it highly doubtful that a trained former attorney and a willful mature companion would show up to a volatile situation to protest, knowing the stakes, but also carrying suspicious drugs.

I don’t know, maybe the guy was that dumb. But right now it seems unlikely the pill began its day in Kieffer’s private possession.

I hope he gets a drug test POST HASTE if he is innocent of possession.

Larry Meridith, I am a bit late to this particular party, but I have been closely following the cases in Polk County. I would like to correct one error in your comments. You seem to believe that John Kieffer shouted DURING the “pre-meeting” prayer. That is incorrect. John Kieffer and EllenBeth Wachs only spoke quietly to each other while the minister was leading his prayer at the public school board meeting. The shouting started after the prayer ended when one of the school board members shouted at John Kieffer, then several audience members joined in also shouting at John Kieffer. At that point, yes, he did shout back as police were dragging him from the room. Wouldn’t you?

Well, he’s right. Prayer has no place in government.

 While I agree with the sentiment of the protesters, I disagree with the tactic. These types of “disruptions” simply fire anti-atheist sentiment. And, as interrupting a speaker or trying to shout over someone is generally seen as rude, a better tactic would perhaps have been to hold up signs during the prayer, or to be recognized and say something I call the “Atheist’s Prayer”: ”

Fellow Americans, let us join together to hope and work for
the day when our government will return to the ideals of our founders. When no
religious observation, Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Hindu would be considered
appropriate at a public meeting. Let us envision the day when public officials
no longer see it as appropriate or virtuous to insult citizens who do not share
their religious belief by officially sanctioning their own faith in public
forums. We ask this in the name of Thomas Jefferson and the United States
Constitution.”