Please Don’t Reshelve the Bibles January 27, 2011

Please Don’t Reshelve the Bibles

***Update***: Mike Lee, the religiousantagonist, has posted a comment below. He is sincerely apologetic (and I believe him when he says that), but he wants to explain his thought process in making this video.

This video from religiousantagonist encourages atheists to reshelve the Bibles in the public library — because they ought to be in the fiction section (or possibly horror).

Ugh. Don’t do that. Please don’t do that.

I get it. Really, I do. The Bible is fiction. Very true.

But if you take it upon yourself to “fix” the location of the books in the library, you’re only making the librarians do more work. And you’re making it tougher for people who actually need those books to find them. You haven’t made a good point — or even a point at all. You’re a jerk.

You might as well litter in the aisles while you’re at it. It serves the same purpose — someone else has to clean up the mess you left behind.

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  • Tony

    But the bible isn’t fiction! It’s an actual historical document that details the actual deeds of a monstrous deity, his psychotic followers and his passive-aggressive son!

  • Ugh, that’s as bad as “edgy” Evangelical videos patronizing kids, I had to turn it off in 30 seconds, I couldn’t bear to watch any more.

    And you’re right Hemant, there are far better things we can be doing than petty antagonism.

  • Zac

    My local library has a “Religion” section anyway.

  • Tam Hunter

    This guy is an Idiot and makes all Atheists look stupid

  • There might be a place for being antagonistic (a march against gay rights or when councils do prayers, for instance) – but it’s certainly not with your average librarian who just thinks you are an arsehole for doing this.

    But then maybe that why he did it in the first place.

    Not impressed.

  • libratheist

    As an atheist Librarian, I would be really annoyed if anybody started doing that. Mishelved books are such a pain, and just create more work for our already over-stretched staff, not to mention annoying the Library users when the book they want isn’t in the right place.

    There are books in my Library I disagree with intensely, including Christian apologetics and a copy of Mein Kampf, but that’s the point of a Library-freedom of the press and free access to all books, not just the ones we like.

    This doesn’t make a point or make atheists look good, it’s stupid and irritating and if I found anyone doing it in my Library they would be made to put the Bibles back where they are supposed to be. Most Libraries don’t shelve the Bible in non-fiction or history anyway, but in a dedicated Religion section. So what’s the problem with that?

  • Mike Holcomb

    Is his blog called Douchey Atheist?

  • rofl

    U mad Hemant? xD

    I reshelve it all the time. Librarian has to work? That’s her job. Get over it.
    People have trouble finding the book? Well that’s because they’re dumbasses who aren’t looking in the right section.

  • Josh

    Antagonism does have its place (I feel), but I can’t find a point here other than maybe they thought it’d be funny.

    Now if a public library was having something like a “Jesus Day” or something then possibly some action is called for, but getting all passive-aggresive and moving some books around doesn’t help anything.

  • how can you not see a point? He makes it very clearly. Taxpayers like him pay for that library, so it shouldn’t be endorsing a religious text as a historical document. He was placing it in the fiction section, but he suggested you could put it anywhere from horror to mystery.

    If you people think the bible should be placed in the history section, then why don’t you go ahead and ask the schools to use it in history classes too, hmmm?

    Religious texts belong in a religious section. If the library doesn’t have a religious section, and is opting to place to bibles in the history section instead, then they are basically just asking for this to happen.

  • Religious texts belong in a religious section. If the library doesn’t have a religious section, and is opting to place to bibles in the history section instead, then they are basically just asking for this to happen.

    It’s a public institution, so if this strikes you as a fight worth having because you really think this is making the difference in whether people actually see the Bible as a historical document or not, then be a grown up and bring the issue of creating a religion section in the library up at whatever public meetings can affect library policy. Or write your local councilperson. Don’t be a child about it.

    And even if principle and decency don’t matter to you, do you really want the retaliation of all the atheist books being moved to the fiction section by equally petty and childish religious people? Is this really the kind of level we want this debate to happen on?

  • Librarian has to work? That’s her job. Get over it.

    Wow. That’s some amazing disrespect for other people’s jobs.

    Yes, it is their job. But there is simply no need to pull an innocent third party (an employee who is simply following orders and not harming anyone or anything) into your political statement.

    Yes, it’s “their job” to clean up after everybody, but that doesn’t mean we all have to be dicks about it and deliberately go out of our way to make their jobs moredifficult.

    When I go to any establishment, I always try to be courteous of the employees there and try to leave them as little to clean up after as possible. Because I have worked in places like that, and I understand what a pain in the ass it is when somebody comes in and leaves a huge mess under the impression that “it’s their job, so I don’t have to care anyway.”

    No, you don’t have to care. But that means you’re a jerk. Just sayin’.

    [/rant]

  • Josh

    Well, my main problem is I’ve never seen the bible in the history section of any library, though I grant that may be different some place where there isn’t always a religion section.
    If it is placed in a history section, moving it isn’t going to change where its filed. They’ll just put it back in the same place again later. Nothing is accomplished and you look like a jerk.

  • Josh

    Well said Camels.

  • Stephanie

    I don’t agree with a lot of the library of congress or the dewey shelving systems. But you know what? It’s there and it’s considered a standard. If you want to get Bibles out of the history section- start from the top and have the section changed. Do not mess with the library- it’s already facing enough from attempts to dismantle the system from underfunding.
    Someone making near minimum wage after years of graduate work shouldn’t have to babysit adults and pick up after those ‘patrons’ when they have almost double the workload they did ten years ago. They already have to babysit children who get dumped there for hours. Grow up already. Atheism does not entitle a person to act like the rest of society are servants any more than being highly religious does.

    And no, I’m not a librarian. I just visit several of my local systems and actually watch. In case you haven’t noticed, many libraries are now constantly packed because of the economic downturn.

  • And even if principle and decency don’t matter to you, do you really want the retaliation of all the atheist books being moved to the fiction section by equally petty and childish religious people? Is this really the kind of level we want this debate to happen on?

    Yes, actually I do. Sometimes childish things like this can get this done faster than then endless red tape of debating the politicians who are going to fight you for as long as they possibly can. Having all the bibles and atheist books and whatever other books talking about religion reshelved into different sections will force those running the library to take notice and do something to solve the problem.

    Yes, it’s “their job” to clean up after everybody, but that doesn’t mean we all have to be dicks about it and deliberately go out of our way to make their jobs more difficult.

    It’s not like I, or others who do this, are tossing the books on the floor and making a mess. We are trying to make a point, and while this may be childish, it works, as described above. I’m not saying “it’s their job, so I don’t have to care anyway.” I do care, and that’s exactly why I’m doing it. Because they should care too.

  • Kerrie

    If any public library is using the Dewey Decimal System, the Bible is shelved with all the religious books – 220.5 to be exact. God is Not Great and all the atheism books are at 200, which is a nice “kick off” to the religion section! All the Osteen, T.D. Jakes, and Joyce Meyer woo-woo feel-good books are in 248. It’s nowhere near the “history section” which starts in the 930s. I shelve these books ALL DAY. Yeah, this rearranging is pretty obnoxious, but it’s nothing like trying to organize the kids’ room after a few toddlers have been let loose in there.

  • Shawn

    @Camels with Hammers

    …if this strikes you as a fight worth having …be a grown up and bring the issue of creating a religion section in the library up at whatever public meetings can affect library policy…Don’t be a child about it.

    But what about the little thrill petty antagonists get from being slightly subversive, then the larger thrill they get from proclaiming it on the internet? Won’t somebody think of the petty antagonists?

  • Cindy

    Wow. As a librarian, I am appalled at the few people who think we are there to search high and low for the items you think need to be hidden or placed somewhere else.
    And thanks to the defenders (including Hemant) who pointed out that the system (Dewey/LC) is there for a reason and how much work it is when something gets placed where it doesn’t belong.
    The library is a repository of information. I don’t like the Bill O’Reilly books or books on life after death, but it is my job to make sure these items are shelved where they are supposed to be and help people locate the information they want, not that I want them to have. If I start censoring in my library, who’s to say that another librarian somewhere else won’t hide the Dawkins and Hitchens books?
    BTW, the bible goes in the nonfiction religion section. Fiction is sometimes in nonfiction as well. Shakespeare has his own Dewey number!

  • BTW, the bible goes in the nonfiction religion section.

    nonfiction religious section? Isn’t that an oxymoron?

    Whatever though, I’d be happy accepting even that. As long as it’s placed in some sort of religious section I won’t move it.

    I’m not asking librarians to be renegades and start placing books wherever they think it should be placed. I think they should be placing it exactly where it belongs according to the Dewey system. Placing it in the history section is just as improper and insulting as placing it in the fiction section. Both are misplacements, and neither are proper.

  • ManaCostly

    I agree. There are more effective ways to get bibles in the fiction department of the library.

    Reshelving them yourself is just a headsup reminder that they should.

  • Cindy

    @Larry: It’s not like I, or others who do this, are tossing the books on the floor and making a mess
    I’d rather you did toss them on the floor, because then I know they’re not where they belong and can put them back where they go. When you misshelve something, we have no idea where you put it and cannot find it and have to mark it as lost or missing. Then we have to spend money to rebuy it (money in the bible publishers’ pockets…way to go).

  • “…developed by Melvil Dewey in 1876; it has been greatly modified and expanded through 22 major revisions, the most recent in 2003.
    This system organizes books on library shelves in a specific and repeatable order that makes it easy to find any book and return it to its proper place. The system is used in 200,000 libraries in at least 135 countries.”

    /respect

  • libratheist

    Larry Meredith:

    Librarian has to work? That’s her job. Get over it.
    People have trouble finding the book? Well that’s because they’re dumbasses who aren’t looking in the right section.

    Wow. Just wow. It’s ‘her’ job? Nice disrespect there for people who work in an often underappreciated sector. Also with the gender and job stereotyping, yeesh. Not all librarians are women with their hair in buns who spend the day going ‘shush’ you know. And by the way, spending time clearing up your mess is not our job, we’re there to serve people who want to use the library properly, not spoiled brats being oh-so-subversive by mis-sheving things. And if people can’t find it because you moved it, it’s not their fault for not looking in the right place. It’s yours for being a douchenozzle.

    Also, hat-tip to Cindy:

    If I start censoring in my library, who’s to say that another librarian somewhere else won’t hide the Dawkins and Hitchens books?

    Exactly. Libraries are bastions of freedom of speech and freedom of information. Atheist books and LGBT books have been banned by certain libraries before, and we have had to fight to allow them to be read. Do atheists really want to stoop to that level?

  • I’d rather you did toss them on the floor, because then I know they’re not where they belong and can put them back where they go. When you misshelve something, we have no idea where you put it and cannot find it and have to mark it as lost or missing. Then we have to spend money to rebuy it (money in the bible publishers’ pockets…way to go).

    and once again you’re missing the point…
    It’s supposed to be bothersome. It’s done to make you take notice so that you’ll start shelving those books where they belong. As I said before, shelving them in the history section is just as inappropriate and offensive as placing it in the fiction, horror, or mystery section.

    The one thing I don’t like about the video is the end when he brought some of the books to the front desk and told them they are should be shelving them in the fiction section. That part really is just being a smartass. I have confronted the librarians a few times myself about bibles being misplaced in the history section, but they give you the same annoyed attitude if you recommend they shelve them in a religious section as this guy got for suggesting the fiction section. If they aren’t going to take serious complaints seriously, then that just encourages me further to reshelve the bible.

  • Kerrie

    BTW, the bible goes in the nonfiction religion section.

    nonfiction religious section? Isn’t that an oxymoron?

    Just to clarify a bit –

    Nonfiction religious section: Bible, Koran, Joyce Meyer telling you how to live your life with God, Karen Armstrong’s biography of Mohammed.

    Fiction religious section: Christian novels by Beverly Lewis, Karen Kingsbury, Janette Oke. Some libraries simply interfile them with the rest of the fiction. Others make it real easy and have a dedicated shelf for them, because for some people, that’s all they read.

    It’s very frustrating to try to find a book that isn’t where it’s supposed to be. Usually a patron has called for a specific book and they’re on hold while we’re looking for it. The longer it takes, the longer our other patrons are waiting to be helped. At that point, we’re not thinking about how someone’s subversive re-shelving is going to change the system, but rather stressed that our customer service is falling short.

  • hehe… I like this comment on the youtube page:

    I’m sorry with all the rape, murder, genocide, incest, etc the bible doesn’t belong in the fiction section. It belongs hidden behind the counter with the porn where impressionable youth won’t be exposed to it’s depraved content. Hell if I had kids I’d actually rather having them looking at the porn. It’s less warped.
    – Arikiel

  • Larry, you’re kind of a dick.

    Having all the bibles and atheist books and whatever other books talking about religion reshelved into different sections will force those running the library to take notice and do something to solve the problem.

    … No, it’ll force them to get a restraining order put on you so that you’re never allowed back into the library.

    It’s supposed to be bothersome. It’s done to make you take notice so that you’ll start shelving those books where they belong.

    They’re not going to do that just because you’re being a child. Grow up. There are appropriate ways to deal with things, and what you’re suggesting isn’t one.

    Treating librarians like shit isn’t going to change the Dewey Decimal system.

  • Cindy

    My last word on the subject (maybe). Libraries are not infallible. We make mistakes. Just yesterday, a parent brought to our attention that a book that had been shelved in Juvenile Fiction belonged in Young Adult (Teen). So, we are recataloguing it and moving it.
    We have a process for this (often called Request for Reconsideration). If you believe something is in the wrong place, please bring it to the librarian’s attention. It may be as simple as us checking and saying yes and fixing it. It may be more complicated and you’ll have to fill out a form to explain why you think something is in the wrong place. The library may not agree with you and will not move the item, but they should get back to you and explain why.
    Just moving items around doesn’t get us to shelve things where they belong. We just think someone was looking at a book and shoved it on a shelf wherever they were standing when they decided they didn’t want it.

  • P. Coyle

    In the Library of Congress classification system, the subclass for the Bible is “BS”. Enough said.

  • Treating librarians like shit isn’t going to change the Dewey Decimal system.

    It’s like poetry how you spin my words.

    I don’t encourage anyone to treat librarians like shit, and I’m not trying to change the Dewey Decimal System. I’m encouraging librarians to properly place the bible exactly where it belongs according to the Dewey Decimal System. The Dewey system does not categorize the bible as a historical document. A librarians shelving it under history is just as offensive and inappropriate as me reshelving it under fiction.

  • I don’t encourage anyone to treat librarians like shit

    No?

    Librarian has to work? That’s her job. Get over it.

    It’s supposed to be bothersome.

    You’re encouraging people to do something immature that will do nothing but hassle librarians. If you don’t see it as treating them like shit, you’re not paying attention. There are right ways to solve problems, and being a petulant child is not one.

  • A Portlander

    Look people, we could only hold on to the high ground for so long after gnu atheism became a popular movement. Thoughtless, point-scoring upstarts like Larry and this Mike Lee character were inevitable. It takes some emotional maturity to understand the difference between PZ (or TJ) saying and doing provocative, outrageous activism very publicly, but on their own (mostly virtual) territory, versus vandalizing public territory as a personal statement.

    We don’t get veto power over who decides to wave the “A” flag. All we can do is vociferously make it clear that this isn’t how we behave if we want to sit at the grown-up table.

  • Alice

    I do this at book stores sometimes, but only because books get shuffled around there all the time and the bible section usually has a bunch of copies just like it. Same thing? Less dickish? More?

  • NotSoPreachyPlease

    Hemant, I think you’re getting a little overly preachy here. I’ll share my story:

    About a year ago I went to Barnes & Noble to buy a copy of The God Delusion. I never intended to do anything other than buy a copy. I couldn’t find it, though, so I asked at the information desk. The woman seemed nice enough, but I soon realized where she was walking me toward in the store. She handed me a copy of the Bible and, in a very lecturing tone she snapped, “you ought to read the Good Book instead – it’ll do you good!”

    I told her that I wouldn’t be buying the Bible and I’d still like to know where to find a copy of The God Delusion. As she was walking away she muttered under her breath, “if we have any of that book it would be in the Fiction section.” So, after she’d left my line of sight I moved three copies of the Bible that she’d handed me to the Fiction section, myself.

    Was it the most mature thing I could have done? No. Did it make me a jerk? Absolutely not! I don’t regret a thing about it. So I think, Hemant, given the right circumstances moving a Bible in a store doesn’t necessarily make one a jerk!

  • A Portlander

    Or misappropriating public property/territory, perhaps I should have said.

    Larry, where are you getting this “history section” straw man? You kept using it even after Cindy the librarian corrected you. Do you need a reference?

    Here. Religion is in the 200s. History is in the 900s.

  • MikeTheInfidel, you are clearly interpreting my words in a way I didn’t meant for them to be interpreted. Treating librarians like shit would be to throw the books on the floor and order them to pick it up. What I’m doing, while bothersome, is to make a point and let the librarians know that they should shelve bibles in a religious section. If they’re going to treat my reasonable request like I’m a child to be ignored, then they can have fun finding reshelved books. I always give fair warning.

    @Alice
    I think it’s far more dickish to do that. Bookstores are privately run. They can categorize books however they want. If they have a bible section, then there’s really no point at all in reshelving them elsewhere. They belong in a bible section. You’re just being annoying for the sake of being annoying.

    @A Portlander
    I agree with Cindy. Unfortunately, not all libraries are properly following the system. Some, like the library in this video, shelve the bibles in the history section where they obviously don’t belong.

  • A Portlander

    Larry, pause the video at 0:23. Look at the placard on the stacks there, where Mike is turning the corner to the Bibles. It says “158-319”.

    Has it occurred to you that maybe you find Bibles in the history section because some fundie is doing exactly the same thing you are? I used to work at a Borders, and we had Christians and atheists both doing exactly this all the time. Drove us nuts.

  • Larry, you seem to think you’re being effective. Did you see what Cindy said?

    When you misshelve something, we have no idea where you put it and cannot find it and have to mark it as lost or missing. Then we have to spend money to rebuy it (money in the bible publishers’ pockets…way to go).

    Your actions are doing more harm than good.

    From what you’ve said here, it sounds like you talked to the librarians (good), didn’t get the response you wanted (bad), and decided to take matters into your own hands (childish) in a way that ends up putting more taxpayer money into the coffers of bible publishers (worse). Maybe instead you should put together some sort of campaign to get the library to change their system – one that doesn’t involve making librarians’ jobs harder. They’re not going to change the system because one person complained and then made their lives harder when he didn’t get what he wanted.

    What I’m doing, while bothersome, is to make a point and let the librarians know that they should shelve bibles in a religious section.

    By making them think the books may have been stolen. Maybe you should actually communicate to them what it is that you want them to do, rather than assume they look through every shelf in the library on a regular basis to look for stuff that’s out of place?

  • Hmm, it appears you are right Portlander. He said somewhere in the video that they were shelved in the history section, so I just took his word for it as I actually have seen bibles in the history section myself.

    I guess Mike really was just being a dick then.

  • libratheist

    Larry Meredith:

    What I’m doing, while bothersome, is to make a point and let the librarians know that they should shelve bibles in a religious section

    if you want to make a point to the librarians to re-shelve an item, then why not actually talk to the librarian about it? We’re quite friendly, I assure you, once you start to treat us like human beings.

    If a book is mis-shelved, we don’t psychically know ‘ah! someone was making a religio-political point here! We must alert the Library of Congress!’ we just assume some bell-end couldn’t be bothered to put the book back properly once they were done with it. So what point are you actually making? Also, in my library at least, the librarian-in-charge doesn’t do the shelving, so would never actually see your oh-so-clever ‘point’ anyway, but if you were to talk to them, they might listen.

    And as P.Coyle mentioned, the LCSH heading for Bible is ‘BS’. That always makes me smile! They’re definitely in the right place when you see a Bible with a big BS sticker on the spine!

  • A Portlander

    Larry,

    You rock.

  • at 1:40 when he’s talking to someone who works there he said they were improperly shelved in the historical section. 158-319 really isn’t anywhere near the historical section though.

  • I’m surprised he didn’t get caught moving all those books… I’d think you’d attract attention when you’re walking through the library followed by 2 guys with huge cameras on their shoulders.

  • Drew M.

    @Larry,

    I started drafting up a reply full of piss ‘n’ vinegar. I’m glad I read all of the comments.

    Good on you for standing corrected. 🙂

  • MH

    Please don’t re-shelve any book in the wrong location by accident, and definitely not on purpose. A misfiled book is a bear to find and re-shelve. If everyone did it libraries would be unusable.

    I worked in a library during the Summers in high school and college, and it was my favorite Summer job. The pay stunk, but I had friendly co-workers who were happy to be there. The perks of seeing all the new books and getting book tips books were great.

    One of my many jobs at the library was entropy collector. I would straighten the stacks and look for misplaced books. That library had carts with signs telling patrons to put books on them if they didn’t know where to put them. It was MUCH easier to deal with than misplaced books.

  • A Portlander

    The thing about libraries, and to a lesser extent, bookstores, is that you know you’re going to get weird people coming in to do weird things, frequently for political or religious motives. Unless you have on-site security, which most don’t, it’s exhausting to jump on them every time they act up. Most of the time you just keep an eye on them and try to keep them from hurting people or property. Anybody who doesn’t rise to that level isn’t really a problem, especially if they’re a nice boy in a sweater who’s probably making a student film or something.

  • I’ve been to the libraries lots of times… When I was young I didn’t have the internet at home, so I’d go there just about every day. I never saw someone walking around with a video camera. Maybe it’s different here in Canada than it is in America?

  • So many thoughts, so little kindness left after watching the video

    As many have pointed out, there is a religion section that bibles are kept in.

    Had Mr. Lee wanted to make more of a point, he could have requested that they be kept behind the counter and people have to show ID to view them (as was done here way back when Madonna’s Erotica was published and with a few books since then). That would have highlighted the content of the bible and encouraged reflection on why we call it the “good book”.

    I was shocked that the staff treated hm so well (I initially thought they must be actors) as the staff here would have reshelved his head with his ass. Our librarians have zero tolerance for such things: no chick tracts in books, no hiding Bertrand Russell (or Dawkins and Hitchens now) no “misplacing” To Kill a Mockingbird or Huck Finn and no boys sneaking sex books into the washroom. It makes for a wonderful environment and people here are grateful for it.

    On a side note, the bible is an historical source book. Not a history book. (note that being an historical source doesn’t equal being true-Grimm’s Fairy Tales is an historical source as well).

    @Cindy and @Kerrie thanks to you both for doing a tough job that benefits a lot of people.

    @A Portlander I think there are some unfortunate similarities between this sort of thing and *some* of PZ Myers stunts-I don’t believe he deserves a free pass as an antagonist.

    It would be great to discuss what objective difference you see between the two, but I found this topic upsetting enough today, I don’t know that I’d remain polite. Must be that emotional immaturity you reference. 🙂 Perhaps Hemant will return to the topic in future.

  • I’d think you’d attract attention when you’re walking through the library followed by 2 guys with huge cameras on their shoulders.

    No kidding! That’s pretty ballsy, and amazing that nobody called him out.

  • Rickster

    Kudos to the librarians for not biting on his attempts to be drawn into an argument. It was obvious that he was looking for some sort of confrontation and I found it amusing that he didn’t get one. While his notion that the bibles do not belong in the history section is correct, I don’t see this video doing anything to further that cause or put atheists in a good light. It just made him look like a jerk.

  • Savvy

    Couldn’t agree with you more. Even more so, his attempt totally fell flat and he looked like even more of an ass when faced with a knowing “ooooh ok, gotcha big boy” reaction from the librarian.

  • A Portlander

    @The “Eh” Theist

    I don’t want to take you into territory you’d rather steer clear of, and I have to get my head out of the internet for a while, but briefly:

    I can see a surface similarity to Mike’s request that others emulate him and PZ’s call for wafers after the Webster Cook incident, but libraries and their books are public resources in public custody, whereas communion wafers are given freely to individuals by a religious institution. Sure, the church has a specific use they intend you to put that wafer to (eating it), but there is no way to make that binding once the gift/hand-out has been given. I’ll grant that it’s not dealing in good faith to send PZ the wafer, but it doesn’t incur an additional cost to the church the way misshelving books does to the library.

    The only other example I can think of is poll Pharyngulation, which among other justifications is a means of flooding attempts to engineer sampling bias with a variety of opinions. It’s encouraging the public to participate in activism on private territory by accepting an implied open invitation to express a plurality of views, actually the opposite of what Mike is doing.

    And with that, I’m out. It’s probably early for you, but it’s bloody late for me.

    /hat tip

  • Julie

    Speaking as a librarian, please don’t do that. I do agree that it (bible) should be re-cataloged, but as mythology and legend (394; 398).

  • Try this: put the Bible on a fiction shelf of your choice. Take a picture of it. Then put it back where you found it. Post the picture on the Internet. You get to make your point without causing the problems discussed above.

  • I volunteer at my local library shelving books. Please do leave the books alone. We have several copies of the bible, quran, and many other religious books and commentaries. There’s no room in fiction if someone even commenced this project.

    I will be asking the librarian if we can remove the anti-vaccination books from circulation, which I think is a legitimate project if you want to start changing your library.

  • It’s heartening to see that the overwhelming majority of commenters on this thread realize just how ineffective and morally repugnant it is to victimize uninvolved third parties.
    I’ll go out on a limb and assert that the minority opinion stated here is evidence that critical thought may not necessarily factor into one’s being or becoming an atheist.
    Theists certainly don’t have a corner on the petty, immature jerk and coward markets.

  • pmsrhino

    Never understood why people enjoy making a point by making (often minimum wage) workers’ lives more difficult. It was like that lady who started a thing when it was found that Target donated to some anti-gay groups. This lady made a video where she went in, bought about 200 dollars worth of stuff, then went right back into the store and returned all it, all the while telling the manager and other employees exactly why she was returning every single item. I didn’t think she was making some grand statement, I just thought she was being a dick. It wasn’t enough to just boycott the place but she had to waste the time of the employees int hat store who have no real power over what the company they work for does. Most of them are probably just there for a paycheck and nothing more. I dunno how many people did what she did, but I was completely pissed off at her and amazed that so many people seemed to think it was a good idea and praised her for it.

    Similarly, messing with the library books and making the librarians job a lot harder does nothing to change the Dewey decimal system which is the real culprit in where the Bible is put in the stacks (probably just makes the librarians think you’re a complete asshole). Write to someone who can actually change it if you care that much. No use making life harder for those who have no power to change the situation.

  • Daniel Miles

    I put myself through college shelving books at the local library, and you know what’s worse than this? Right after the library’s new collection of books came in for the year, a bunch of people would come in, check out all the “new age religion” books. Three weeks later, they’d come in and say they’d lost them. They were always very apologetic when they came back in and they paid for the books but the library could only order books once a year. So, even though there was money to replace them, the books weren’t available. The people who did this were the same every year, there were a lot of them, and they all came in on the same day. I’m pretty confident it was a church-sponsored theft.

    If you reshelve books in the library, you’re a jerk.

    If you steal books from the library, even if you pay for them, you’re a double-jerk.

  • RJ

    Leave the innocent librarians alone. You can have lots of fun with the Gideon Bibles in hotels though.

  • @pmsrhino,

    “Never understood why people enjoy making a point by making (often minimum wage) workers’ lives more difficult.”

    That would likely be because you are not a small minded, petty, bullying coward.

  • JimG

    I spent several years as a bookstore clerk, and I can tell you that such a move there, even if repeated, would have no other effect than annoying the low-level staff. It would serve no useful purpose at all.

    When we found mis-shelved books, which we did constantly, we merely put them back in their assigned places. Even if we found the same book constantly moved to the wrong place for days on end, we’d only move it back. We wouldn’t even bother to inform the manager, much less try to reach the invisible corporate heights that arbitrarily dictated where each book was to be shelved.

    Even if we did send up word that some book or other was consistently being moved, there would be only one response: “Well, move it back. Not our problem.”

    We probably wouldn’t even think about it – we had enough other things to do. We might eventually decide that someone was trying to be cute, but that would only annoy us, not induce any change. When we found mis-shelved books, we automatically assumed the culprit belonged in one of three categories:

    1. Lazy
    2. Dumb
    3. Lazy and dumb.

  • Laura

    I really don’t know of any libraries that don’t use a detailed classification system such as Dewey Decimal and instead just have sections on broad categories like “history.” “Nonfiction” is writing that is presented as fact, not necessarily “true” writing. Trying to organize a library by “truth” value would be impossibly difficult and mostly useless. BTW, the 200s (Religion) section of Dewey Decimal is the same category that classical Greek and Roman mythology is shelved under.

  • mingfrommongo

    Librarians rock; no one should fuck with them lest they get all Library Justice League on your villianous ass. Which should happen to the dude in the video.

    However, I disagree with Hemant’s other point about making it difficult for patrons who need these books. No one needs these books. Also, the bible is the most sold, given away, and shoplifted book ever; who needs to go to the library to get one?

  • BlueRidgeLady

    This is like shitting on the floor at McDonald’s because you hate their farming policies. Some poor person has to clean up after you and believe me, they aren’t going to feel enlightened to your cause or sympathetic to you.

  • Dylan

    For Larry Meredith and everyone else who’s making the assumption, not all librarians are female, either. As a male librarian, just thought I’d point that out…
    Cheers!

  • OneOfTheSheep

    Hi there. Christian here, one who spends a lot of time in public libraries.

    Glad I read these comments first. And glad to see the consensus is that this guy is basically a jerk.

    What bothers me a great deal is the way he casually tosses off the falsity that the Bible has been filed in “history.” As others have pointed out here, that is not true of most libraries, and certainly not of the one in the video. (In all my years in public libraries, I have never run across a Bible in the history section. I would be disturbed to find one there.)

    Also couldn’t help but notice that this guy also is apparently unaware of the difference between Bibles and Bible commentaries. I am sure there are some religious fundamentalists out there who would whole-heartedly thank him for removing commentaries they find personally offensive from the sacred precincts of their “real” Bibles.

    Finally, do bear in mind that the Bible is neither just fiction, nor just history. Love it or hate it, it consists of a compilation of history, folk-tales, poetry, collected wisdom, advice, and a lot of religious stuff that is the source of much disagreement. By all means, leave it in its own section.

  • Kenny

    There’s nothing wrong with complaining about books being in the wrong section. The bible shouldn’t be in the history section – end of story.

    My problem would be filming the complaint and putting it on YouTube without the librarians permission. I didn’t watch the video, I think it would be painful.

  • This video is sooo cringe-making. I am embarrassed for this guy. As a librarian (who actually does shelve), it’s annoying, but not much more annoying than any of the other little stupid things people do intentionally or unintentionally. Some days I’m an idiot, too, and I hope that on those days people will treat me with such genial patience as the library personnel in this video treated that jerk – I mean, that young man. I try to be as charming to the jer- people who come to my library with their little bees in their little bonnets. Later, I can tweet about it to vent.

    We only have his word that they were shelved in history and when he speaks to the librarians (I can’t believe I actually watched this all the way through) he only says they were mis-shelved. I don’t know any library that makes exceptions to Dewey classifications like that.

    I suppose the video was meant to be funny, but you know, I can’t even laugh at him in a “Jackass” sort of way. Sure, I’ll call friends at work and punk ’em (“Do y’all sell snow chains?” or “Are your peaches tree ripe?”) because I know it really annoys them, but then I’ll take them out for a drink later and laugh about it. This guy, though, is just making us look … stoopidpettyiggorunt. The librarians, though, come off looking pretty good! Yay!

    Thanks for putting us straight, Hemant.

  • For Dyland and everyone else who thinks Librarians are awesome people, not all are. As a person who has gone to the library a lot in his young teen years, I have met some very mean librarians who dismiss complaints, give you a snotty attitude, and get in your face. And no, it wasn’t because I resheleved books. I legitimately found bibles in the history section and made it known to the librarian who just shrugged it off like they didn’t care. Another librarian walked over to the computer I was sitting at once, pressed the power button, and told me to get out of the library. Why? Because I would go to the library just about every day and be on the computer for several hours. There’s no rule against this, as far I know. Even if there was, that’s no justification for being so rude about it.

  • It’s not like I, or others who do this, are tossing the books on the floor and making a mess. We are trying to make a point, and while this may be childish, it works, as described above. I’m not saying “it’s their job, so I don’t have to care anyway.” I do care, and that’s exactly why I’m doing it. Because they should care too.

    Point is, you’re protesting to the wrong people. The librarians don’t make the system, but they’re the ones who have to reorganize and clean it up. So they get the brunt of the “protest” but none of the power to really do anything about the “problem.”

    It’s supposed to be bothersome. It’s done to make you take notice so that you’ll start shelving those books where they belong.

    The librarian doesn’t choose where the books go. If anything, I imagine the management/establishment/etc. would be in charge of deciding how to interpret the DDS.

    For Dyland and everyone else who thinks Librarians are awesome people, not all are. As a person who has gone to the library a lot in his young teen years, I have met some very mean librarians who dismiss complaints, give you a snotty attitude, and get in your face. And no, it wasn’t because I resheleved books. I legitimately found bibles in the history section and made it known to the librarian who just shrugged it off like they didn’t care. Another librarian walked over to the computer I was sitting at once, pressed the power button, and told me to get out of the library. Why? Because I would go to the library just about every day and be on the computer for several hours. There’s no rule against this, as far I know. Even if there was, that’s no justification for being so rude about it.

    Even if ALL librarians were dicks in the way that you have described, that wouldn’t justify dragging them into a situation that they had nothing to do with. I just don’t see how it can be morally permissible to drag an innocent party into a guilty situation in order to solve it.

  • Richard Wade

    Larry Meredith:

    The problem with causing more work for librarians is annoying, but that’s not the essential problem caused by misshelving Bibles or any other book by people who disagree with its categorization.

    The worst problem is that it makes it impossible for a patron to find the book he or she needs to find. It interferes with their freedom of access to materials available in the library. It amounts to censorship forced on many patrons by one individual.

    There’s nothing heroic, noble, or principled about this cowardly, self-centered prank. People who do this are not freedom fighters or making bold and persuasive statements for what they believe. They’re just trying to force their opinions onto others whom they don’t even know.

    Kinda reminds you of some book-banning fundies, perhaps?

    If you really want to make a statement about how the Bible is fiction, then go to the library, research every bit of biblical and historical material you can find, all on their proper shelves for your convenience,

    AND WRITE YOUR OWN BOOK WITH YOUR EXCELLENT ARGUMENTS ABOUT HOW THE BIBLE IS FICTION.

    Then it will become a very influential best seller, and libraries will buy it and put in on the shelf where people can easily find it, and they will come to agree with you.

    UNLESS some childish, self-centered, self-appointed censor who fancies himself a guerrilla truth teller doesn’t agree with you, and misshelves it so nobody can find it.

  • Danielle

    Aren’t there religious sections for bibles? They’re fine right there.

    As long as they aren’t in History or Science, I’m fine.

  • What strikes me about this tactic is, not only is it spectacularly jerk-y, it’s also spectacularly quiet. Hardly anyone will notice. And if someone does notice, they’ll have a one-second reaction. “Oh, there’s a bible in the fiction section. Haha, what an amusing error. Moving on.”

    All you passionate, activist-minded atheists, this is doing it wrong. It’s like tossing plates on the ground in a restaurant while yelling into a napkin. Just because you inconvenienced some waiters and vented some anger doesn’t mean that you made any sort of statement.

  • Rachel

    This reminds me of when a famous author said she saw a bookstore display labeled “Real Life” featuring the Left Behind series. She was very perplexed because even if you are Christian and believe the rapture will happen, it hasn’t actually happened yet, so it isn’t real life.

  • MH

    @miller, I think you’re right, no one will notice.

    When I was a librarian’s assistant and the front desk was quiet, I would enter re-shelving Zen mode. I wouldn’t think about the section I was in, the title of the book, or the section a mis-shelved book would go to. Only the number on the back (non-fiction) or the last name of the author (fiction) mattered.

    If the books was in the right place it stayed. If it was in the wrong place it went on the cart. I would then re-shelve the books on the cart when I was done with the stack.

  • About a year ago I went to Barnes & Noble to buy a copy of The God Delusion. I never intended to do anything other than buy a copy. I couldn’t find it, though, so I asked at the information desk. The woman seemed nice enough, but I soon realized where she was walking me toward in the store. She handed me a copy of the Bible and, in a very lecturing tone she snapped, “you ought to read the Good Book instead – it’ll do you good!”
    I told her that I wouldn’t be buying the Bible and I’d still like to know where to find a copy of The God Delusion. As she was walking away she muttered under her breath, “if we have any of that book it would be in the Fiction section.”

    Wow. I’m shocked. I hope you filed a customer service complaint. That type of behavior is completely inappropriate. I would have asked to speak with the manager, and if the issue was not dealt with properly, I would have have phoned and/or written to the company’s headquarters. There’s no excuse for an employee behaving in that manner, and if left unaddressed, she’ll continue to think she can get away with it.

  • So umm… I’m not actually sure about the premise anyway. Perhaps best articulated by Hemant.

    “The Bible is fiction. Very true”

    Even if the Bible contains fiction, even if it is all made up, surely its historical value in explaining the development of western thought, and the way it has been treated throughout the last 1700 odd years, and earlier for the OT, and the claim that it makes regarding containing some historical data (even if it is sociological propaganda for the nation of Israel) – it rightly holds a place as a historical document and a primary source. Even if you don’t believe it.

    Fiction just isn’t the right category. The Bible is not a novel. It’s an old book that has had pretty significant influence. If you’re interested at all in educating people about their history then it plays a part…

    This whole “The Bible is fiction lets treat it as such” is just a category error. The Bible contains an articulation of historical truth relying on the interpretation of its writers – just as any historical writing does. Perhaps some of you should read E.H Carr’s What Is History.

  • Lysistrata

    As a librarian, I am appalled.
    First, this puts atheists on the level of conservatives who hide the books on sex and witchcraft so people can’t check them out. Please don’t stoop their level.

    Second, there are process in place in libraries for people to request a reconsideration of where things are shelved. If it is often called a reconsideration policy. While this often used to challenge a book, it can also request the library to reconsider where something is shelved. Just ask for the form at the reference or service desk.

    Third, librarians are among the most liberal people in the world. I know a lot who are non-religious and work to make sure the collection is a balanced as we can given what is published. But don’t piss us off by making more work for us. We are working on shoe-string budgets with demand at an all time high. Please treat us like the professionals we are (The majority of librarians hold at least one Master Degree.). You wouldn’t walk into a law office and mix of their files just because you don’t like to court cases they are handling so don’t mix up the books because you don’t like where they shelved. Wouldn’t you rather us helping and suggesting books that people might read instead of the bible? Instead this just stresses the library resources and we have to find what was missed placed (Ok the shelvers have to do it but given the budget cuts libraries have taken there there are a ton of librarians who are shelving as well).

    Forth, you should be praising librarians as we are the freedom fighters for free speech. We will fight tooth and nail against any form of censorship. This means we will work to make sure every view point is represented in the library including atheism-no matter what others in the community think. The library may be the one place in the community that somebody can even find an atheist book.
    Please work with us and not against.

  • Kodie

    Larry Meredith wrote:

    I don’t encourage anyone to treat librarians like shit, and I’m not trying to change the Dewey Decimal System. I’m encouraging librarians to properly place the bible exactly where it belongs according to the Dewey Decimal System. The Dewey system does not categorize the bible as a historical document. A librarians shelving it under history is just as offensive and inappropriate as me reshelving it under fiction.

    You keep repeating a lot of the same things but not understanding what you say, deeply. You seem to think librarians have some authority to shelve items any way they see fit, which, one librarian may disagree with another and keep moving the books all over the library. That’s why they have a number on the spine, so we’re all in agreement where it goes. If someone at the library decides bibles go in the history Dewey points, it’s not going to be the librarian and I bet they don’t think it’s cute. Ask if you can see the head librarian if you are finding bibles in the history and not religion/mythology section. I have always seen bibles in the mythology section, or otherwise in the reference section and not able to check them out of the library. File a complaint with whoever is in charge of the library or library system if they are in the wrong section.

    Sorry that’s not “renegade” but do not kid yourself that moving books where they don’t belong gets it done any faster!

    For Dyland and everyone else who thinks Librarians are awesome people, not all are. As a person who has gone to the library a lot in his young teen years, I have met some very mean librarians who dismiss complaints, give you a snotty attitude, and get in your face. And no, it wasn’t because I resheleved books. I legitimately found bibles in the history section and made it known to the librarian who just shrugged it off like they didn’t care. Another librarian walked over to the computer I was sitting at once, pressed the power button, and told me to get out of the library. Why? Because I would go to the library just about every day and be on the computer for several hours. There’s no rule against this, as far I know. Even if there was, that’s no justification for being so rude about it.

    You know what, not all people are nice. A lot of not nice people have jobs, and if they’re not nice when they do their jobs, maybe it’s because it’s a hard job and they don’t like it and I’m sorry if they took it out on you, but you don’t solve any issues like that being a dick to all the other librarians. That’s the definition of being a child; you didn’t like it when the librarian shut off your computer because you or some other kids were annoying them until they snapped.

    You think you are serving a purpose, but I don’t think you have examined it thoroughly or honestly. Who do you think you’re sticking it to when you misplace books?

  • Prometevsberg

    Larry, pause the video at 0:23. Look at the placard on the stacks there, where Mike is turning the corner to the Bibles. It says “158-319?.

    ..which section includes 200 (religion) subsection 220 The Bible, . In short, The Bible was NOT filed under history, but where is is supposed to be filed.
    Larry & his ilk, meet Conan the Librarian and good riddance to you all.

  • @Larry Meredith (and those who think like him),
    The difference between you and those who finger-paint with their feces in public restroom stalls is one of degree, not of kind.

  • Don

    A little story from my days working in a library: one of the librarians was in charge of classifying the books, that is, assigning them Dewey decimal numbers. This one persisted in mis-classifying books about human sexuality. I can’t remember the destination subject area, it might have been biology, it might have been psych. Nothing really brazen, just different enough to move the sexuality-related books from the first floor to the second floor of the building.

    Because she thought that horny teenagers would then be less likely to find them. As if they wouldn’t walk through fire to look at The Joy of Sex in the late 1970s.

    Her approach was stupid, but more than stupid, it was wrong. It was antithetical to what a library is about. Atheists of all people should know that suppressing ideas is wrong. And fucking with the shelving of books at the library, is just a particularly cowardly means of suppressing ideas, not to mention a harm to a public resource.

    The end does not justify the means.

  • I’m not an atheist but I can say that reshelving a book doesn’t make people stop and think anything other than what a jerk. It’s not a way to get people thinking, a christian isn’t going to stop and go “Hey the bibles in the fiction section! It must means my whole belief system is wrong!” This website though with respectful conversations does get people thinking, it makes the rest of us pause and want to get to know atheist and their beliefs!
    Sadly the jerks like the ones reshelving bible are the ones everyone seems to see.

  • Gibbon

    Can I just point out that according to Mike Lee’s logic Galileo’s treatise on helio-centrism, The Dialogue, should be in the fiction section as well, because even though it makes scientific arguments it does so by presenting them in the form of a fictional debate between three non-existent characters. It is more or less fiction; I suppose one might call it ‘science fiction’.

    I’ll also add that watching the video you can see that the Bibles are clearly sorted with other books of a similar nature. One title I was able to spot was Commentary on the Whole Bible by Matthew Henry, which the antagonist almost removes from the shelf. Clearly the Bibles were appropriately grouped with similarly themed books and in the right section.

    As far as ‘m concerned this Mike Lee is some self-righteous ass who seems to think he has a point, even though he is little more than a moron with a huge bug up his ass. This stunt of his is made all the more stupid when he puts on the rubber gloves; could he have been any more of a retard. It’s a book. Unless the last person to handle it was infected with Ebola you don’t need the rubber gloves.

    Quick point. I have actually noticed something of a similar but real problem at the Borders bookstore that I frequent. Checking out the religion section I have found your typically religious books, e.g. the Qur’an, Alistair McGrath, as well as the comparative religion books. But there is also a shelf or two within the section for atheist and secularist books, such as The God Delusion and Letter to a Christian Nation, which is understandable. But I have noticed that Richard Dawkins’ latest book, The Greatest Show on Earth has been placed in the religion section as well, even though it can already be found in the science section. There is clearly something wrong when you have a biology (or other physical science) book in the religion section.

  • Toni

    I didn’t watch the video but I’ve heard this debate about whether the bible should be in the fiction or non-fiction section. It’s a dumb debate at the Dewey Decimal System has a section for all religious texts.

  • Mike Lee

    Hey Everyone, this is Mike from the Religious Antagonist video.

    First of all, I want to apologize to any atheists (especially the librarians) that were offended by my video. I understand the uphill battle against the stranglehold of theology; and to many, this demonstration gives atheism a bad name.

    When I published the video, I may have misjudged just how polarizing the clip really was. To some, the video is an encouragement towards activism (my gesture itself is notably trivial and meaningless, but encouraging someone to take a physical and non-violent stand in ones community certainly is not.) To some, the video is a symbolic desecration of a book that has enslaved for centuries.

    And to many, I’m just being an asshole. Who would have thought I could get atheists and christians to agree on something?

    The clip was intended to be a satirical farce; with the inclusion of the gloves, face mask and book cart, I had hoped the tone would be set for the rest of the video. The overall message (and one I am certain most of us can agree on) was simply that the bible is more fiction than non-fiction. By moving the bible from the non-fiction section (religious studies; 158-319) into the fiction section, I had hoped to make a provocative and entertaining video. To many, it was simply a video made in bad taste.

    Let me clarify just a few things regarding the video:

    Never in the clip do I mention that I am an atheist or what my theological views are. Obviously a religious person watching the video could draw the conclusion that I’m agnostic or atheist; but I do my best to avoid drawing attention to any specific perspective, just so they can be spared the negative publicity.

    The technical errors in the video are as follows. I pulled the bibles from the religious section as demonstrated in the 0:23 footage. Later when I ask the 1st librarian for a cart, I mistakenly mention that bibles don’t belong in the historical section, even though I did pull them from the religious section. I understand how this could be misleading…but since this was filmed live (and un-scripted) its not like I had a chance for re-shoots. (We caught this mistake in the editing process which lead to the inclusion of the footage of me later saying that bibles don’t belong in history or in the religious section; but that they belong in fiction.)

    The other error (and one I don’t remember being mentioned in these comments) is that the fiction section is not organized by genre as I imply in the video. We took liberties in the filming and editing to maintain the pace of the video; but I obviously know that the fiction section is organized by author – not genre.

    In closing, let me once again apologize to everyone that I may have offended with this clip. This is only my 3rd video out and I will do my best in the future to be more conscientious of my material, if you will give me another chance?

    After all, I wasn’t completely disrespectful; at least I was whispering in the library. You gotta give me that?

  • “There is clearly something wrong when you have a biology (or other physical science) book in the religion section.”

    Perhaps it represents the truth that for some, science has become a religion…

  • ACN

    I am Jack’s False Equivalence?

  • Robotr

    Yeah, pretty immature and barely amusing. He made a harmless point, big deal.

    “this makes athiests look bad” – well, we are a broad spectrum of folk, hopefully never to fly under the same banner.

  • Tom

    I believe books supporting macro-evolution should be shelved in the Science Fiction section of the library. Since the process of macro-evolution is not observable and not testable by scientific methods it is not based in science. It is based in rationalized speculation and assumptive reasoning.

  • Steve

    Macro-evolution is an old term co-opted and misused by creationists to weasel themselves out from under the mountain of evidence they are buried under. There is no fundamental difference between “micro-” and “macro”evolution. It’s just a question of time.

  • ACN

    I call Poe on Tom!

    (and I hope I’m right)

  • Staceyjw

    I didn’t read all the comments, I just wanted to say
    LIGHTEN UP, ITS SUPPOSE TO BE FUNNY!
    SO what if someone put a few books on a different shelf, the world isn’t going to end, and it’s likely no one will even notice. sometimes atheists want to take the high road to the point of absurdity!
    RELAX

  • Staceyjw

    We need to quit ripping up other atheist for minor things, when there are REAL targets for us to focus our attention on.

  • SecularLez

    I work in a library and it’s so painful seeing the bible, among many other books, in the non-fiction section.
    I’d also like to put Glen Beck’s books in the fiction section as well.

  • sunnybook3

    Hi. I just stumbled across this video while reading a post about a more recent video by Mike Lee. I just wanted to add my own two cents about reshelving the Bibles. I’m a librarian, so I think my perspective is relevant.

    First: please don’t reshelve the Bibles like this! Numerical classification is just an arbitrary system that makes it easier for librarians and patrons to find what they are looking for. Also, lots of fiction winds up in the nonfiction section already–classic literature is in the 800s and some libraries shelve comic compilations in the 700s. So, whether Bibles are fiction or not isn’t really relevant to whether they’re shelved in nonfiction.

    Second: by not being familiar with the Dewey Decimal classification system, you missed out on a better protest. The 200s are books on religion. But Melvil Dewey was rather biased totwards Christianity. 200-289 is ALL Christianity. 290-299 is designated for EVERYTHING ELSE. Buddhism, Judaism, atheism, mythology, etc are all in the 290s, while the rest of the classification is for various aspects of Christian theology. Biased, much?

  • ignatious93

    There are four churches within one block radius of that library. Clearly behavior is a product of our environment, so I can understand Mike’s frustration.

  • Psuedo

    To achieve the same level of humor, while minimizing the work of librarians (I suppose it would even brighten up their day), Relabel the sections.

  • New Jade

    Vandalizing public property doesn’t make a point. It just makes you a jerk. The Dewey system has its own section for ALL religious texts, not just Bibles. The Qu’ran etc. goes there as well, as well as books about religion in general. Dicking around by putting the books in the wrong section isn’t making a point, it’s just making more work for the librarians. I might not agree with the Qu’ran, or some Wiccan text I find there, but do I go and hide it in the wrong section? No. That would be stupid. There’s no point to be made from that. They stick Greek mythology in the religion section as well, and I have yet to find anybody in this day and age who finds it to be true.

  • randall.morrison90

    And what really bothers atheists is that it was written by JEWS.