Atheists, Christians, and Santa Claus

…because when they find out he’s not real…

SPOILER ALERT!

The problem is that religious parents know Santa isn’t real, whereas they don’t know God isn’t real. Thus they’ll keep reinforcing the God myth as true, while not bothering to reinforce the Santa myth.

“Dad, my friends said there’s no Santa!”
“OK, son. You had to find out the truth eventually.”

“Dad, my friends said there’s no God!”
“Don’t listen to them, son. God is as real as I am, and they’ll go to hell for not believing in him.”

My problem with the Santa story is that I don’t like its moral.

“If you’re GOOD, you get stuff. If you’re BAD, you don’t get stuff.”

It’s not too far of a stretch to believe that people who were born into privilege are actually better people than individuals born into poverty or other hardship. Or that people come to acquire belongings and wealth because they are better than others. Goodness knows we hear those messages in our society all the time.

I’m going to skip Santa with my daughter (and other future kids) and focus our Christmas traditions around charity, thoughtfulness, and thankfulness.

We get enough of the odious “having stuff = being good” attitude from churches and their messages about “God’s gifts.”

I found out last week that about 6 years ago my second daughter stayed up all night on Christmas Eve in order to test whether or not Father Christmas came. She even caught us delivering presents but pretended to be asleep. Apparently she was sceptical of her parents giving her a truthful answer.

I love my kids. They make me proud.

My son found out about the tooth fairy first (money under the pillow) when accidentally he found one of his teeth in one of my pockets. He then made the connection with Santa…. he just could not believe we had “lied” to him. However that did not last long and moved on.

This will be his first Christmas when he will help us put presents under the tree. He has been quite excited about going shopping with me and or her mother and wrapping gifts.

My son found out about Santa at 3 when I played Santa at the x-mass party for the daycare at the YMCA.
He shouts out, hey that’s my dad. Then try and keep a three year old quiet. I think there were a few crushed kids that day.
My son is alive and doing fine too. I can’t speak for the other ones.

“We’re not telling our kids about Santa, because when they find out he’s not real, they won’t believe that God is real when we tell them about him.”

This lady is right to fear this from a believers view.
I think this is why the “you know it is a myth” campaign is so important I really do think we need to infest the open dialog that christianity is a myth. Every thought that gets pushed into the masses dilutes the effectiveness of religion.

I told my daughter when she was 5 there was no Santa. She quickly moved on with her life after I broke the news.

I think Santa can be fun but it was never used as a dry run for believing in a God or Jesus. It was simply something I was brought up with and was fun. I enjoyed going to see Santa when I was a little boy and I remember looking out the window on Christmas Eve staring at the sky trying to spot Santa.

Now days NORAD tracks Santa for you.

This is timely for us, as my 2-year-old only sorta kinda understands the Santa idea. We’re trying not to use it as a means of behavior control, but it’s hard not to fall back into the traditions you grew up with. Ms. EA and I may need to have a talk tonight about how to proceed. On the one hand, I appreciate magic and wonder in childhood. On the other, those things are all around in the real world if we teach our kids to look.

There’s not an industry to support the thousands and thousands of 30 year olds struggling with Santa Claus, because there are not thousands and thousands out there who do.

I love this part.
Churches anyone?

The Father Christmas’ story in the time s of Xmas is synonymous with giving of gifts to little kids, According to the legends, while the Santa Claus is always attributed to Christmas; the season of Christmas is a unique period for Christian and to remind the whole world of his birth of Jesus. While an atheist may feel indifference about the celebration, Christians are always reminded of the events that surround the birth of Christ. In as much as there is the need for more emphasize to be drawn towards Christ during the season, atheist and non believers alike are nevertheless left out of merry of this wonderful season. Kids need to be taught what this events means and all the symbolism that are associated with it. Christmas is a season that everyone can see and feels whenever it comes, denying it is a form of lies, an atheist parent might not celebrates, but hold it a duty to explain it to their kids what the season is all about.

I was so crushed when I found out Santa wasn’t real (Told to me by my angry brother) but not because there was no Santa, but because my parents had lied to me. After being told so many times that telling lies is bad – they tell me this whopper! They used that lie to make me go to bed early and threaten me with coal if I was being hyper and excited after my 10th candy cane!

I resolved to never lie to my kids about Santa, and I’ve kept that oath. My kids know the stories about Santa, but they know Mom and Dad buy the presents. It was interesting having a talk with my kids when they started school to not tell the other kids about there being no Santa. Both times they told me someone else had already blabbed about it ages ago. One on the first day of school.

@ Deanna:

Let’s all have a little humility and admit that we don’t know. Be mindful that your beliefs aren’t any more or less valid than mine. We’re all taking bets that we are right. I’m bettin’ on God…and I’m all in!

You seem like a nice person, so please understand I’m about to attack your idea, not you.

This is the kind of statement that drives atheists nuts. You claim to not know if God exists, but you are a Christian and are “taking bets” that you’re right. Which means you think you do know. Which isn’t particularly humble. You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth here.

To that extent, I think my beliefs about God are more valid, because mine are based on evidence (or the lack thereof), not a cosmic bet that amounts to wishful thinking.

My father has always said “If you’re going to believe in something, believe in Santa. He’s a much nicer guy than this god dude people are always spouting about, and he makes just as much sense”. Both of my parents were raised Catholic which is why we continued to celebrate holidays like Christmas and Easter even though my parents raised their 4 children without any form of religion. Holidays for us are about fun, family, pretty decorations, delish food, silly stories, gifts and a great excuse for a party. Santa has always been a part of our holiday celebration because it’s a fun story. By age 5 or so, my brothers and I all realized that there was no fat man breaking into our house one night a year to leave us gifts, but that didn’t take Santa out of the holiday. I am 29 years old and still get gifts from Santa, written in the same special Santa handwriting my mother has always used. She’s not “lying” to us. Its all part of the Christmas fun!

So prescient…

Since having read Dale’s book some time ago, I’ve been looking forward to the day my oldest (now almost 8) would ask me directly about Santa. He’s such a bright kid; it’s wonderful watching him ponder mysteries – I can almost see the gears turning and churning in his head. I couldn’t wait to watch him figure it out himself, and then he could also be in on the fun as we wait for his younger siblings to work it out on their own in their own time. It would be so great!

Unfortunately, my wife couldn’t stand lying to them any longer, be it by commission or omission, and flat out told him and his younger sister (5 1/2) and brother (almost 3) that Santa is a fun, festive myth, but that mommy and daddy, and all our family members and friends who love us, are the ones who get them the gifts they open on Christmas morning.

Sorry, no dice – they refuse to believe us and maintain that Santa IS in fact real, that he DOES make all those toys in his workshop, that his reindeer DO fly (including Rudolph), and that he DOES deliver all those presents in one night, and by gum he gets it all done because he’s MAGIC.
Oh well, maybe next year…

I’m with @ChristopherTK. I watched “Miracle on 34th Street” last night and realized that Kris Kringle helped people; answered their requests; exposed the one person spreading fear, guilt and self-loathing as a power-seeking fraud; didn’t punish those around him when they had doubts and was able to make a more credible appeal to evidence for his existence than most deities.

It just reinforced how far gods fall short of their own PR and how the evidence for their existence is so very weak. To say nothing of the people using fear, guilt, etc to encourage belief in the religion and obedience to them. @Deanna should consider shifting her chips to Kris Kringle if she still insists on betting-the odds are the same and as a role model he is much more reliable and loving.

In response to RJ’s statement (nearly halfway down the comments from here, but not quite): “At that age, they aren’t so concerned about who gives them presents anyways, as long as they are still going to receive them.”

Haha, yeah. I remember when I had started to piece things together. I finally asked my mom one day when we were out shopping or something near Christmas, “Santa isn’t real, is he?” And she just sort of got flustered and said we’d talk about it when we got home. Later that day she and my dad talked to me and my sister (2 years younger than me, she was in the car with us when I blurted this out) and explained that no, Santa is imaginary. (Of course they continue to lie to us about God.)

I had figured it out a while before that, but I was scared to mention it because I was scared that if they knew that I knew that they were really the ones giving me the presents instead of this imaginary magic man that the presents would stop coming!

Santa is the best damned lesson in freethought you can give a kid. They all figure it out by age 8 or so at the latest. My grandson’s 7 and he’s asking big time questions this year. For now, he still wants to believe but I already whispered to my daughter to brace herself and enjoy it this year because it’s on its way out.

Though I don’t put it past my grandson to pretend to go on beleiving in Santa (possibly already) in the false assumption that he’ll get more gifts if he does. He’s one sharp cookie. We’re baking chocolate chip cookies Christmas Eve because they’re Santa’s favorite kind. I’ll play along as long as he wants to. Unless he does actually reach the double digits then I’m kind of going, you don’t really believe that any more, do you?

I think it’s really important for kids to not take anyone’s word without thinking for themselves. Even mommy and daddy’s (and Grammy’s) shouldn’t be sacred. Respected but not automatically right just because it came from them. We’re fucking human; we err and kids should learn to decide things for themselves. Finding out loved ones bamboozled you with Santa gives you the freedom to question what they say. This is a good thing when even the best of them do err.

My mother considered Santa a false idol and, at going on 53, I still feel gypped.

I believe in the God that I have had an experience with. I don’t have a particular name for him. What I meant by that there has always been an idea of a God is just that. There has always been an idea that there is something greater than ourselves out there. Our own concepts about what that is differ. I can only speak of my own experience of what that something greater is. As far as me saying that we don’t really know for sure, but being Christian myself…. I am trying to meet you where you are at. Logically, in this world’s thinking…we don’t know. I can’t prove to you that there is a God…but you CAN prove it to yourself if you are willing. However, no one can prove that there isn’t one! (And don’t give me that “can’t see Him” silliness…that doesn’t even fly intellectually. There are lots of things that just are which we can’t see.)With all due respect, for being such intellectuals you guys are being pretty closed minded.

@ Deanna, I think you’re confusing “close-mindedness” with an unwillingness to just take that which we don’t necessarily know and label it “God”. This has been a common theme throughout history. So much was attributed to God(s) before science was able to provide an explanation. I can look at the world around me and think, wow, there sure is a lot more to learn and discover. I do not look around and see God, because it just doesn’t make any sense at all. And if it happens that I am wrong, and there has been a God all along, I would still prefer to keep him out of my life, because that guy sure seems like a dick. What a waste of omnipotent powers.

I can’t prove to you that there is a God…but you CAN prove it to yourself if you are willing. However, no one can prove that there isn’t one! (And don’t give me that “can’t see Him” silliness…that doesn’t even fly intellectually. There are lots of things that just are which we can’t see.)With all due respect, for being such intellectuals you guys are being pretty closed minded.

I don’t think this is very respectful at all. In fact, let’s reverse it and see how it sounds.

I can’t prove to you that there isn’t a God…but you CAN prove it to yourself if you are willing. However, no one can prove that there is one! (And don’t give me that “I can feel Him” silliness…that doesn’t even fly emotionally. There are lots of things that we feel that we don’t necessarily understand but we still don’t attribute to a God.)With all due respect, for being such attuned individuals you guys are being pretty closed minded.

Does that really sound respectful to you?

i think this entire debate right here is ridiculous. honestly, who cares? let the kids do their thang, and let them decide later. god and santa are two different concepts and have nothing to do with each other. stop overanalyzing everything. all of you. youre starting to sound like the evangelicals.