A Gay Teenager Stands Up for His Suspended Teacher November 16, 2010

A Gay Teenager Stands Up for His Suspended Teacher

You may have already heard the story about Graeme Taylor, but it deserves to be spread.

In Ann Arbor, Michigan, Howell High teacher Jay McDowell had been suspended without pay “for two days for asking a student to remove her Confederate flag belt buckle and for ejecting two students from class after a heated exchange about gay rights.”

At a school board meeting, one of his students — a 14-year-old gay teen named Graeme Taylor — came to his defense with a heartfelt speech:

The transcript is below:

My father is Kirk Taylor. He is a teacher at Hartland and he tells me about things that go on in this area and it seems like a nice community. I myself am gay and I’m a young person and that can cause lots of trouble.

And when you hear things like Dr. King’s speech that one day he wanted his grandchildren, his posterity to not be judged on the color of their skin but the content of their character, I hope that one day we too can be judged on the content of our character, and not who we love.

Howell is the headquarters for the Klu Klux Klan. Does that really sound great on your racism record, the fact that they chose this city to come into? And you probably want to get rid of that. So how would you like more headlines like “Howell denies gays,” “Howell doesn’t protect them.”

This teacher [points] whom I fully support, finally stood up and said something. I’ve been in rooms, in classrooms where children have said the worst kinds of things, the kinds of things that helped drive me to a suicide attempt when I was only 9 years old.

These are things that hurt a lot. There is a silent holocaust out there in which an estimated six million gay people every year kill themselves. It this really the environment you want for a school? Do we really want this on our record?

Now I’m saying that the best thing you can do right now is just give him his pay from that day and just reverse the disciplinary action. He did an amazing thing. He did something that has inspired a lot of people. And whenever, ever, I have teachers stand up for me like that, they change in my eyes.

I support Jay McDowell and I hope you do too.

McDowell is appealing the decision. He’s “back at work while his grievance is pending.”

I don’t know where that “six million gay people every year kill themselves” stat came from (it’s not accurate), but the sentiment is inspiring.

I love it when kids have no problem standing up for what’s right when so many adults wouldn’t dare speak up in that situation.

(Thanks to everyone for the link)

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • That is a really powerful speech from someone so young! Goes to show you that adversity fosters maturity, if only the other people in his area were so emotionally capable…

  • This story arrives days after I experienced a major dilemma regarding anti-homosexual comments in my classroom. I convinced myself to keep my mouth shut, and this event confirms the potential of backlash against a teacher standing on ethical ground.

    My story and dilemma are detailed here (and I welcome input).

    Regarding this event, specifically, I wish we knew the details about the belt buckle and why students were removed. I sincerely hope that the Howell/Ann Arbor community realizes that there is a limit to the illogic teachers are willing to hear before reaching a breaking point and addressing ethics.

  • I cannot support what this kid did, overall. I left a comment on another site about this. While I applaud the child for publicly defending his teacher, he got his facts wrong -dead wrong- and he should be called out on it.
    If he can be praised for being brave and forthright, etc., he can also be held accountable for wrongfully labeling an entire community as the “headquarters of the Ku Klux Klan”. What the child refers to is the now very deceased former Grand Dragon of one of the factions of the Ku Klux Klan, Robert E. Miles.
    Robert Miles never lived in Howell. He lived in a farm in Cohoctah Township, which is almost a 30 minute drive north of Howell. He died back in 1992. His claim to fame was the planned bombing of some school buses back in 1971 to prevent forced racial integration of schools through bussing.
    Howell was never used as a base of operations for the Klan. Robert Miles was never a community leader in Howell. The Klan has never had influence in the local politics of Howell.
    I lived in Howell for several years and as a dark-skinned Arab-American have never had an issue or problem with the locals. Howell is a typical Midwestern town composed of good people. Dragging Howell through the mud was done so for dramatic effect. The kid owes Howell an apology. From the perspective of someone who lives in Michigan, the child diluted his message by calling the citizens of Howell racist homophobes. We also send an ugly message by supporting what he did.

  • “In Ann Arbor, Michigan, Howell High teacher “

    Ann Arbor? What does Ann Arbor have to do with this? It may as well be the planet Mars. Ann Arbor is some 40 minutes drive from Howell and it’s in Washtenaw county, not Livingston (where Howell is).

  • Holly

    While this is indeed an amazing, brave kid; I too am really getting tired of all the false information being generated from this story. I live here in Howell. Yes, Bob Miles used to live 30 miles north of here, but he’s been dead since 1992. Because of our history, we probably work harder than most communities to be a safe and accepting place for everyone. This young man has nothing to do with the initial controversy and doesn’t attend Howell schools. Howell is not in Ann Arbor, this young man is from Ann Arbor. He obviously heard about the hoopla and came out to voice his concern.
    Now on to the belt buckle:
    if you go here:
    and scroll to Nov. 2, there are two PDF files about the story.
    Also out local paper is here:
    and there has been non stop coverage.

  • littlejohn

    I think this might be the most subtle case of Godwin’s Law on record. I don’t think the kid just pulled the 6 million figure out of his ass. Think back to Nazi Germany and I believe I can guess where it can from.

  • JD

    To me, “Fighting the good fight” doesn’t just mean being in the better side of the argument, I think it’s also about being correct in your facts. Frankly, such rank hyperbole and distortion of facts shouldn’t be excused just because we agree with his position.

  • Jim

    After reading a bit on this story I don’t find myself with that much sympathy for either the teacher McDowell or Taylor, his apologist. At least some of what the teacher did sounds unacceptable to me. The wearing of a Confederate flag should be a matter of individual expression and not something schools should have the power to adjudicate, though I realize they often do nonetheless. I’d say the same thing for the insignia of any other racist or dissident entity. Furthermore, if the ejected student was simply stating his opinion on gays without causing anyone else harm, then the teacher was out of line on that count too. Even if this weren’t a free speech issue, the wrong response to religious ignorance and bigotry is to try to stifle it, that just doesn’t help. Sorry kid, you may be well intentioned but you’re at best naive and at worst dishonest, and you’re on the wrong side of this issue to boot.

  • Sean

    The kid may have genuinely believed the six million figure, but it’s not remotely plausible. Which is rather a pity, since the real statistics regarding gay suicides are pretty bad (as of the 90’s, 20-35% of gay people said they had attempted suicide at some point). I find it unfortunate when groups I agree with use made-up facts.

    As for the kid in the video… it’s nice that he cares, but I’m not sure if “we drove in a kid from Ann Arbor” is going to make much difference. It would have been better if one of the actual students in McDowell’s classroom made such a speech.

  • Yeah, six million was a gross exaggeration. Kid’s a great speech deliverer but as others have said has trouble fact checking. I don’t know about other facts since I don’t know the area but I’ll take the commenters above who do into consideration. He made an impassioned speech but it was out of line.

    Not just because he didn’t have his facts correct but the teacher was out of line and deserved his punishment. First of all, asking the kid to remove a belt buckle just because it was the Confederate flag was over the top. Sure some people use it to symbolize hate but some do just to symbolize the South. It’s not even comparable to say a swatiska (which the kid was obviously trying to draw parallels to with the six million figure despite its inaccuracy).

    I’d like more details on the argument the teacher had with the other two students. Was he also out of line with them? Did he esculate a disagreement with him into an argument? It rather sounds like he did (how did a protest that he had no right to ask a student to remove a belt buckle turn into a conversation about gay rights) but I’d have to hear testimony from the witnesses about that and, of course, the news isn’t reporting exactly what the conversation was or the tone of it. Just wants to make the teacher out to be a hero and the student who said he didn’t approve of homosexuality to be a villian. Is he bigoted? Yes. But did he do more than state his asshole opinion until the teacher started arguing with him about it and did he raise his voice, use derogatory names, etc., try to bully the teacher? We just don’t know.

    It seems to me if a student is disrespectful and/or disruptive, the teacher has every right to send them to the principal’s office. However, it also seems to me the teacher started the whole disruption by inappropriately telling the student to remove the belt buckle. It says right in the article that there’s no specific prohibition against the confederate flag but it obviously pissed him off because he was for the spirit day and this kid either wore the confederate flag in protest of that (their right to do, I’d think, no matter how much I disagree with it) or he perceived them as doing so.

    The teacher lost his temper and started the argument with students. Therefore, he deserves his suspension.

    Luc, I’ve got to say, I don’t even agree with the two examples that you did lecture students on. They’re obnoxious, yes, but hardly bullying and hardly a conversation you should have butted in on and played the PC police on. If that is school rules (and I’m assuming it is), man, I’m glad I went to school one hell of a long time ago and I fear for my grandson’s education.

    I also do because of the statement in the article that 90% of curriculum is PC policing instead of actual teaching of knowledge. My daughter and I have had some discussion of homeschooling my grandson since I’m home all day to do it but, frankly, haven’t because he is hyper and extremely social and needs the interaction with other kids. And all day every day would be a bit much for me. But I do fear for his education enough to consider it.

  • Sean

    [I]f the ejected student was simply stating his opinion on gays without causing anyone else harm, then the teacher was out of line on that count too.

    If he did so out of the blue (expressing hostility for no clear reason), I might disagree with this insofar as a teacher needs to maintain a certain school environment (secure and free from disruption and harassment). Free speech rights do not protect a student who is teasing the fat kid or making spontaneous racist or anti-Semitic comments. Free speech is somewhat less free in the classroom setting, in part because the government mandates that students be there, and in part because minors are simply immature and are necessarily subject to an educator’s authority.

    However, given that the issue seems to have been brought up by others, it seems more difficult to justify McDowell’s position, because the student may have been giving an anti-gay opinion as a matter-of-fact “this is what I believe” rather than an intentionally hostile statement. It depends on specifically what was said, I suppose.

  • Sean

    I also do because of the statement in the article that 90% of curriculum is PC policing instead of actual teaching of knowledge.

    Have you taught a first grade class? Is your impression really that “social skills” is entirely a code word for “PC policing”? What percentage of the school day would you say a good educator can spend teaching knowledge to a large group of arbitrarily-selected six year olds (more than 10% is admittedly a low bar)? (“PC police” is rather a snarl word anyway; I understand that many people have legitimate objections to certain kinds of moralizing complaint, but “PC police” strikes me as a label people put on certain behaviors purely in order to feel self-righteous about despising them.)

  • Without knowing the details of what happened in the class room it’s hard to say who is right and who is wrong.

    The First Amendment rights do not extend to all situations. If a student is being disruptive he or she will be removed from the class. Just as you can’t yell “Fire!” in the theater you can’t use profanity, racist or offensive comments in the classroom. If the ejected students were being disruptive then the teach did the right thing.

    I think the holocaust comparison was too much. I get that the kid was trying to make a point but, much like an evangelist would, he went too far in trying to pluck the heart strings.

    There are a lot of unknowns in this story at this time.

  • RG

    First of all, asking the kid to remove a belt buckle just because it was the Confederate flag was over the top

    I have heard it was against school policy to wear clothing with the confederate flag, but I haven’t verified this. If that’s the case, I’m not sure why the argument.

    With these kinds of issues the actual facts are usually unknown or exaggerated. I’m withholding judgement, even if the kid is a good speaker. Good speaker or not, charisma doesn’t make up for spreading false information.

  • daakujc

    @The Godless Monster

    Ann Arbor? What does Ann Arbor have to do with this?

    It seems the teen is from Ann Arbor. But you are right, the below fact is wrong.

    In Ann Arbor, Michigan, Howell High teacher Jay McDowell had been suspended…

  • arallyn

    Hmmm…I think it’s good that a gay teen is willing to stand up for someone who is attacked over their sexuality, but at the same time, I don’t think that this is a case that warranted it. The student in the class was being bigoted, no question, but it doesn’t appear that he was violating the first amendment, or the school dress code.

    The teacher doesn’t deserve to be fired or anything, but punishment isn’t unwarranted. The fact that the teen who “stood up” for him has probably done more harm than good in the long run, because any time that gay rights activists use extreme hyperbole in the same way that anti-gay bigots do, it just lowers them to their level. Gay teen suicide is a major and far-reaching problem- but saying that it’s a problem of 6 million teens a year not only is completely wrong, it’s exaggeration to a degree that may be able to be used against the movement.

    It’s a shame that a very worthy cause may get bungled because of the imprudence shown here.

  • Matt

    As others have said: it’s difficult to discuss without knowing all the details. It certainly does seem to me though that the kid was a bit sensationalistic, and his lack of fact checking really detracted from his speech.

  • Hal in Howell MI

    I have lived in Howell for 22 years and the comments by The Godless Monster above are accurate. It is an oft-repeated calumny that Howell is “headquarters of the Ku Klux Klan.” Absolutely false! Yes, Howell is a conservative town, but hardly a bastion of racist wingnuts. BTW, Howell is only 15 miles from Hell, MI and 300 miles from Paradise, MI, but that is an accident of geography. Oh, yes, a daughter of a signer of the Declaration of Independence is buried in the town cemetery.

  • Jeff Akston

    I don’t know why it gets under my skin so much when people quote statistics that are either completely made up, or exaggerated to such an extreme that it’s laughable – and they just never bother to question the number.

    Even if 10% of the US population were gay (which is also a complete exaggeration), that’s saying that 20% of gays kill themselves every year?

    Arggggh, why does such a valid point need to be polluted with BS statistics?

  • Danny Wuvs Kittens

    I can’t really comment either way on this. Sounds like the guy wanted him to remove a confederate flag, and that got into an argument, and this kid is either fabricating things or just doing like 14 year olds do and pulling things out of their ass or their vague memory to debate. I’ve been there before, so I sympathize with him, but he’s so glaringly wrong that I can’t imagine supporting him. The confederate guy is wrong morally(for the alleged gay statements, not the flag), but the teacher is wrong on the rules and this kid is wrong in his argument; he flat out lied.

    Muggle:I’m homeschooled, and I don’t think socialization is a reason not to, but it depends. There are a lot of homeschool groups, but the hard part will be finding one that will accept atheism. In rural bible belt, its going to be hard, but in the city, and especially up north, it will be fine.

    I DO live in the rural bible belt, and so most of my socialization comes from the family southern baptist church. That’s really it, I don’t see people outside my family face to face except on sundays, and wednesdays. Of course, that’s just because my parents are a little busy, and tend to procrastinate, coupled with the fact that I live in a small town AND I live a mile away from my “neighbors”. I’m not the norm.

    Most of my socialization comes from the internet, but I’m guessing your grandson is young and that’s not really an option for him yet. You might ask around or look online for homeschool groups.

    As for the time commitment, it really depends on age. I’m 17, and my parents spend maybe 30-45 minutes a day on my schooling. Giving me assignments and checking my work, basically. When I was younger, it was more time, and I really don’t know how much time it would take a day for a seven or eight year old. Its still not as much as a “real” teacher would spend, because they usually have at least 20 or so students.

    Anyways, good luck, and feel free to ask more questions!

  • Brice Gilbert

    This is a question about kids free speech in schools, and how schools have the right to remove something if it is a distraction. I think the confederate flag falls under that. Singling out a group of people and considering them “less than” is a distraction. If a person whore a gay pride shirt it would not be the same thing. Now I assume someone is going to tell me the flag is not racist or something. Good luck.

  • If you think that the confederate flag is racist, then no amount of logic or arguing can help you. Because you’re an idiot.

  • From what I’ve read on other sites about this story the teacher violated the anti gay student’s 1st amendment rights (he apparently wasn’t being disruptive, although he did say he hates gays) as for the belt buckle, unless the school has a specific rule against confederate flags as clothing then he was wrong to make the student remove the belt buckle.

    We can’t hail the teacher, or the kid, as a hero when they’re wrong just because we agree with their sentiments.

    Unfortunately, living in a free country means we do not have the right NOT to be offended. Now, had the anti gay student said “let’s kill the gays” we’d have a whole other discussion on our hands and I’d want to see him in Juvey!

  • ThatOtherGuy

    If you think that the confederate flag is racist, then no amount of logic or arguing can help you. Because you’re an idiot.

    Man, that was one hell of a well-reasoned argument. The finesse with which you argued your position, the sheer strength of your citations, the way you kept listeners along for the ride, waiting for your conclusion with bated breath… awesome job, man, awesome job.

    OH WAIT.

  • ThatOtherGuy

    (he apparently wasn’t being disruptive, although he did say he hates gays)

    Oh come on, if he’d said “I hate black people” or “I hate jews” you can bet your life there’d have been a major, major issue. But if he says he hates gays, oh no, free speech? Does not compute.

  • Vanessa

    While I think it’s awesome when kids stand up for issues like gay rights, I totally disagree with his speech. Aside from completely making up facts, he really doesn’t know the whole story. So kudos to him for being so brave, but he could have at least fact-checked first.

  • ThatOtherGuy: for what it’s worth I’d support someone’s right to say: “I hate black people” even though I’d think that person was an asshole.

  • JustSayin’

    Good point, ThatOtherGuy. The difference, however, is that gays are fair game. We’re the political football that everyone—liberal or conservative—gets to kick around, no matter the debate. And they do it like we’re not even in the room.

  • Miko


    Free speech is somewhat less free in the classroom setting, in part because the government mandates that students be there, and in part because minors are simply immature and are necessarily subject to an educator’s authority.

    These are arguments against your position. If students are being forced to attend the school, it’s even more important that we protect their rights to free speech, not less. If students are subjected to the arbitrary rule of a teacher qua authority figure, it’s even more important that we limit that teacher’s ability to stifle the student’s rights, not less.

    I, for one, will do everything I can to ensure that McDowell does not get his job back. His assault on the free speech rights of his students is inexcusable. I encourage you all to join me in writing the school to let them know that you do not find his authoritarianism acceptable and do not want your children learning in an environment where their rights of self-expression will be suppressed.

    (And as for the Taylor’s speech, it really isn’t that good. It’s a mix of non sequitur, ad hominem, absurd Hitler comparisons, and made-up statistics. If you look beyond the fact that he’s gay and judge him on the content of his character, I think you’ll find that his speech wasn’t really anything worth celebrating.)

  • Sean

    These are arguments against your position. If students are being forced to attend the school, it’s even more important that we protect their rights to free speech, not less. If students are subjected to the arbitrary rule of a teacher qua authority figure, it’s even more important that we limit that teacher’s ability to stifle the student’s rights, not less.

    Who said these were arguments for my personal position? I was explaining some of the reasons why there is, in fact, diminished free speech protection for students in K-12 public schools.

    But actually, I’ll take the bait anyway.

    A) This restriction applies far more strongly to teachers, not less, so it doesn’t necessarily exacerbate a disparity in power. Like all government employees, teachers’ speech at work is limited by the requirements of their position and the fact that they are acting in part as government representatives.

    B) Free speech on public premises has always been subject to time, place, and manner restrictions (a student obviously cannot randomly interrupt a lecture in order to say whatever he/she wants or otherwise be disruptive). Students still enjoy the same free speech rights as anyone else when not in a classroom, but a classroom is not a public forum during school hours, and the government has limited obligations to allow free speech under those circumstances. As a non-public forum, classrooms can generally be subject to content restrictions, though not to viewpoint restrictions (that is, it is constitutional to disallow open discussion of gay rights at all when they are not relevant to the subject at hand, but not to prohibit specific viewpoints once the subject comes up).

    C) These restrictions only apply to statements which have the potential to interfere with operation of the school, which are vulgar, or which endanger a sufficiently strong state interest (such as the interest the state has in preventing students from taking illegal drugs). As a result, I’m frankly betting that the belt buckle is quite legal, as are most political statements made via clothing (although in general the dress code can be quite elaborate with respect to non-political or risqué clothing).

    In general, however, a teacher who has to manage a group of unruly children or teenagers does need some methods to keep order.

    D) Because students are compelled to go to school daily, it’s unreasonable to compel certain types of speech out of school attendees, or to prohibit non-disruptive expression or observation of religious rituals. Hence a long history of schools having to respect silent protest, students not having to say the pledge, arrangements having to be made for Muslim daily prayers, etc.

    E) Because black, and Jewish, and gay students are compelled to go to school daily, they are unable to ignore or avoid statements made in a school setting. The school has a reasonable interest in ensuring that those students are not greeted with excessive hostility on school grounds. Insofar as the school is compelling students to spend extensive amounts of time in a specific situation, it has a responsibility to limit racist, anti-Semitic, and homophobic speech that might create a hostile environment.

    Taken together, I would say that all this means the school certainly has the right to limit explicit racist and homophobic speech in most situations, excepting primarily those situations where those comments are relevant to an existing discussion (which may very well cover this case if they were already talking about a Spirit day and belt buckles and what-not). Furthermore, I think the teacher always has a right (and in some cases may have a responsibility) to voice opposition to such speech; however, if it is protected speech they can only disagree, not silence or punish students with official penalty or by sending them from the room.

    I’d say the same about criticism of religion, actually. To be honest, I think that if the subject of discussion is not directly related to religion, students have a somewhat limited right to complain about Christians or Muslims or whatever, if their speech was excessively hostile to members of that religion, or if such speech was likely to result in a disruptive argument (in-person trolling).

    TL;DR: I’m not saying that McDowell was in the right (I don’t know the circumstances, but in fact I doubt he could have been). However, it is in fact the case that in a governmental non-public forum, such as a public school, you don’t get to say whatever obnoxious things you like.

  • Dan

    Graeme Taylor VS. Colton Burpo (a video of this kid below)


  • ThatOtherGuy: Idiots are idiots. Arguing with them is pointless.

    If somebody is going to take it on faith that their view is right, then arguing with them is a waste of time. Simply call them what they are and be done with it.

    If somebody is going to say stupid things like “there is a god” or “god is the source of all good” or “the confederate flag is racist”, then what’s the point in arguing with them?

    The confederate flag is a flag. It cannot be “racist”, because it doesn’t have an opinion. It doesn’t have feelings. A flag cannot hate. Only people can do that. And whatever symbol they choose doesn’t make any difference.

    But pointing this out is a waste of time, no? Somebody who thinks that things can have opinions and be racist is clearly an idiot and it is not worth arguing with them.

  • Mar

    Otto, if they are not worth arguing with, then why respond at all? Simply calling people names makes you look like an “idiot,” too. There is no need to insult people just because you disagree with what they say. This isn’t high school. You are an adult who clearly has the ability to make mature and rational comments, so why don’t you do that?

  • littlejohn

    Otto, you’re being disingenuous. Obviously you know what people mean when they call the Confederate flag “racist.” They mean that displaying it is racist.
    It’s akin to saying the swastika is anti-Semitic. Yes, we understand swastikas don’t have opinions.
    The Confederate flag wouldn’t have existed if southern states had not seceded, principally over the issue of keeping black human beings as slaves. That’s racist.
    With that said, I accept that every American has the First Amendment right to advertise his or her racism. Just don’t play word games about it.
    I lived in South Carolina for a dozen years, and I am so tired of white people who can’t admit the south was wrong and babble on about “states’ rights” and such. Yeah, the state’s right to own slaves.
    Let it go. You guys killed our president. Isn’t that revenge enough for you?

  • Thank you, Danny. He has many friends here in our apartment complex who all play outside together almost every day and at his father’s (where his stepmother’s two grandchildren often are too making sort of erstwhile siblings at Dad’s too that he doesn’t have at home) and we can certainly enroll him in activities. In fact, in NY anyway, enrolling him in things like sports or karate or dance is required to cover the requisite phys ed classes.

    2 things give us pause:

    1. It would fall to me since his mother is working and in school and will have to work to support him and herself. I’m in poor health and grandson has issues with sitting still. Of course, on another facet, that’s an argument for homeschooling since his grandmother will have more patience/understanding with that than the school does and we also don’t want his individuality doped/psycho-analyzed out of him. Pete’s sake, he wants to be a cop (has for a couple of years now so we’re starting to think it might not just be that typical little boy admiration thing). Being so physical would be a plus though we do remind him it takes self-control too and that has him making visible efforts in that direction (yes, he’s, at 7, working on the goal of being a policeman).

    However, he and I will both wind up climbing the walls. I’ll just be so exhausted while I do so that I’ll be lucky if I don’t nod off on him. Even now, a week or two is sort of my limit for all day and that’s with him spending part of it out doors playing with his friends. For the summer at least, he needs to go to an all day program. My daughter’s college has one and he attended this past summer. It was excellent and handled his hyperactivity well. They just sent notice that they’re doing something for winter break so he might just go there for that too.

    2. Legalities of homeschooling and getting them accomplished. This one obviously isn’t insurmountable. My daughter’s concerned because she homeschooled her last three years of high school and the college made her take some remedial courses. She doesn’t want him facing anything like that down the road.


    Bottom line, if the school gets too pushy (she’s got a conference today about it) about forcing b.s. on him because they can’t take the time to treat kids like individuals, we might very well go there. It’s not even his teacher. She wants to do stuff to help him concentrate, sit still, etc. but isn’t allowed to by the school district (how fucking stupid is that) without a plan for services in place.

    Any tips if we do would be greatly appreciated. (I’m sure I’ll wind up commenting on here.)

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