This Was Really in a Jehovah’s Witness Publication…?

They say we’re on a “crusade.” That’s an interesting word to use.

I believe that publication has featured articles about the REAL Crusades, wars fought for the purpose of taking “holy” land from other societies.

That’s a type of war we Atheists won’t be declaring. But they want to loop us into their cosmic soap opera, so they use the other definition of “crusade,” and the emotional hint at the bad definition often rides piggy-back into the mind of the reader.

I would LOVE to obtain a copy of that. All I really need to do is visit my old apartment complex, where Awake! and Watchtower are routinely placed by those obnoxious folks, against the clearly posted rules of that complex.

Pot, meet, Kettle!

From what I can tell, irony gets washed off you when you’re saved.

I find it endlessly amusing when one of the harshest criticisms the religious can throw against atheists is that we’re…like them. Mind you, it is pretty harsh and I strongly disagree that it’s true, but the fact that they fail to see how they are implying that acting the way they do is a bad thing is always fun to see.

And remember, we’re ANGRY! RAWR!

But on a more serious note, I feel the need to point out that this isn’t irony, it’s hypocrisy. Actually, this is practically the opposite of irony — it’s exactly what I’d expect a JW article about atheists to sound like.

If only the Jehovah’s would keep THEIR views to themselves…can’t imagine such a world.

@ Joe Zamecki – you can obtain a copy as I did by downloading from the link in the article.
http://download.jw.org/files/media_magazines/g_E_201011.pdf

Well we are the bad guys; we should keep our mouths shut. They are the good guys; its their job to spread the love of…whatever Jehovah’s Whitnesses do.

Peoples’ inability to see from a perspective that isn’t their own is baffling to me.

We need a list of Jehovah’s witness folks, and then knock on their door, wearing bow-ties, and telling them that we don’t believe in a god. The just stare at them weirdly.

The next time they knock on my door interrupting my busy day, instead of just telling them politely that I’m not interested, I’ll politely tell them I’m not interested and slip in that I’m an atheist (because I’m a “new atheist”). Unfortunately, that only makes them want to talk longer because of the mistaken believe that if only the unchurched were exposed to the bible, then they would all become devout believers.

Looking through their publication, I can only see a few major problems.

Their view of evolution is simplistic, for example.

…which is encoded in DNA.
Hence, when we talk about the origin of life, we are also talking about the origin of biological information. What is the only source of information that we know of? In a word, intelligence.

Their view of “information” seems to be rather limited here. They go on to make further errors:

Would chance accidents produce complex information, such as a computer program, an algebraic formula, an encyclopedia, or even a recipe for a cake? Of course not.

I’m not sure how to convince somebody who thinks this sort of nonsense that “Of course not” is the wrong answer to their questions, because the answer is really “Yes, they could, given enough time, mutation, and a selection factor.” I suppose one could point to Genetic Algorithms for the computer programs one, and Evolutionary Computation for the “formula” one (although we know that these are really the same thing… all programs are formulas, and vice versa). With the encyclopedia and recipe ones, you could use the monkeys at typewriters analogy, but that one is rather weak.

This one is fun:

Imagine this: An archaeologist sees a rough stone that is more or less square. He may attribute that shape to chance, which would be reasonable. But later he finds a stone that is perfectly formed in the shape of a human bust, down to the finest details. Does he attribute this item to chance? No. His logical mind says, ‘Someone made this.’

The problem with their analogy here is that the shape of the human bust is defined as some thing which the archaeologist recognizes as already existing in some other form. Since it’s not normally carved from stone, he has an extra piece of information to work with. Thus, this is really a line of circular reasoning. They’re saying that the form of the human is obviously designed because the archaeologist seeing it in another format will assume it’s designed because he’s seen it before.

Later on, they at least have the guts to state that Hitler had church backing, which is surprising. At least they’re learning. Unfortunately, they trot out Khmer Rouge as an example of atheism in the same breath, when that was merely a power thing. Khmer Rouge wasn’t and atheistic movement, it was a communist movement that tried to eliminate religion in order to secure its power base. Which is a fancy way of saying that the religions had the power and those who wanted it therefore had to eliminate them. Not really an atheist movement so much as a, you know, war.

They go on to draw a distinction between “good religion” and “bad religion”, making a rather obvious No-True-Scotsman fallacy in the process.

There’s also an article about a scientist who found religion, which is pretty much null on the scale of things.

On the whole, there’s about 10 pages there of errors, fallacies, wishful thinking, and misinterpretation of facts and accepted scientific theories. Not the worst I’ve seen, but pretty terrible for any publication. Oh well, what can you do? This is just the kind of ignorance we’re up against, people.

Oh, shut up, JW’s. You’ve had your turn to speak; now we are too. Deal.

Seriously, of all people to complain about other people expressing their views on religion.

I’m always nice to the JWs and Mormontologists that stop by from time to time.

If there is a god, I wish she’d arrange for both groups to show up here at the same time.

You can download the articles here if you want to see it.
http://www.jw.org/index.html?option=QBJrYBNQF

Spoing!

JW personnel have been mailing copies of this issue to secular organizers all over the country. I’ll email you, Hemant, the exchange I had with the guy who mailed me mine. Feel free to excerpt any part, if you like.

who said the JoHo’s have no sense of humor?

Seriously, though, I did have the JWs coming to my house every so often and I finally decided to have some fun with them. I feigned interest in their literature and they brought me all this stuff and I had some good conversations with them on a number of occasions… They eventually realized that I was just playing with them and they must have black-listed my house because they haven’t been around for quite a while now.

*knock knock*

Them: “Who’s there?”

Me: “Not God, that’s for sure.”

I totally have a plan for my Saturdays now.

HAHAHA… I love irony… I wonder if the MORmONS were thinking this too.

I used to be a JW. I used to deliver pizzas. I almost got a job as a political canvasser (too reminiscent of childhood preaching and I balked). Now I’m a process server.

Could y’all please be nice to the door-knockers?

Michael, it’s not against the law to be at your door, knocking on it at pretty much any time of day. It is legal to proselytize or solicit until 8:30pm (might vary by municipality). They are also allowed to call you on the phone until about 9:00pm. I think UPS delivers until 8:00?

Set your dog on me, and I’ll call the county. They won’t put it down the first time it bites me, but if I’ve got to come back, and it does it a second time, your precious little Jack Fucking Russell Terrier is toast!! (all right, I’ve only been bitten once, but I called 911 instantly even though my wound was minor.) I give (healthy) treats to NICE dogs.

Tizzle, I’ll assume that your almost-job as a political canvasser was after your defection from the JWs? ‘Cause their refusal to participate in the political process is, for me, their saving grace (if you’ll pardon the pun). Now if only we could get the freakin’ Mormons on board with that concept…

And yeah, the complete lack of self-awareness on display in the statement above. Wow.

@Justsayin’ — JWs have 2 saving graces: the apolitical thing, and the I don’t have to buy anything (including plane tickets) for Christmas thing. I call them “mostly harmless”. They can’t do much outside their minor sphere of influence. They are actually on the atheist side of the separation church/ state argument.

I got way more hate knockin on doors as a kid preaching the “good news” than I do serving folks papers these days.

I have many JW friends and have discussed their beliefs with them.
I don’t agree with a lot of it, and I think they make major issues out of minor points. However, they do practice what they preach – as do the Mormons. For this, I respect them. Beats the alternative.

And ps… I truly don’t like it when JW’s come knocking on my door… So Don’t! Just go away, don’t expect me to be particularly nice to you because you think you need to preach about something to somebody… I hate that! And I could care less about the feelings you have and your religion, take it else where, not everyone feels about it the way you do! Period! I can promise you that I am not the only soul who feels this way thank you.

However, they do practice what they preach – as do the Mormons. For this, I respect them. Beats the alternative.

Well, the Mormons are almost single-handedly responsible for the Prop 8 debacle in California in ’08. Their pretty hate machine really amplified the terror in some voters’ minds (not that anyone’s civil rights should have rightfully ever come to a vote to begin with). That’s a pretty vile legacy. Consequently, the difference between the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons is, to my mind, akin to that of night and day. I’m curious as to how much worse your “alternative” could be, Bob.

tizzle, I am spared from everything you’ve ever done by being a paranoid NY’er. I don’t open my door to strangers period. Won’t and you can’t get me to no matter the claim.

Of course, I’ve only been served once and the process server just laughed and said, I’m taping it to your door now, consider yourself served. He did to. I won the damned case too. One of two landlords who shouldn’t have bothered bringing me to court because I got back security deposit I wouldn’t have bothered with. I almost never bother with it. Though with what rent’s are getting to be these days, perhaps I should start…

I’m hoping I’m at my current apartment for one hell of a long time though. It’s the best I’ve had in decades.

How dare we be open about our atheism! It’s not like Jehovah’s Witnesses are out talking about their religious views all the time or anything… oh wait. If there were such a thing as an irony meter, mine would be broken by this.

I was raised a JW and found this hilarious so at least not all of my brain was taken;)

It doesn’t surprise me that a JW wouldn’t get the irony because they are taught that everyone who doesn’t believe is not as good as them and doomed to die at Armageddon. They are saving lives! *eye roll*

I escaped from the religion with my belief of God intact, but I wish all you guys well- to each his own=)

Have fun aggravating those crazies!

Well, it isn’t as if we didn’t already know how hypocritical theists always are. Nor that we didn’t know they want to stifle free speech unless it’s for themselves only. Nothing new here. No wonder theists are ridiculous and contemptible.

There is a double message here, one for the outsiders and one for the “believers”. The JW administration has been teaching for many years that government will turn on religion and destroy it, and this will mark Armageddon beginning. They have been saying for years that governments are trying to eradicate religion, to help fulfill their own translation of prophecy and retain the believers in their twisted faith. By forcing their message on people, they also further their own ends by being “persecuted” for doing so and making governments and people biased against them. An interesting study in people control tho.

just came across website about a book and related DVD about how mathematically perfect our spot is in the universe, etc. Only read synopsis and watched 3 minute flash video.
The higher math angle got my attention.
Maybe the JWs are not dumb nor alone in their view of scientific matters as one would assume.
Remember – those in control of of our scientific processes fire when ever possible( make lose your cushy job ) those who disagree with them. Yes I do know they do-a professor personally told me this, didn’t happen to him – he kept quiet. here is the site.
privilegedplanet.com

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2007/05/praise_from_scientists_for_the003619.html#more

Read the publication in it entirety while at a hospital a few weeks ago. Just keep adding fuel to the flame.

As a former jehovah’s witness, one who used to have “priveledges” within the organization, and “new atheist”. I believe this article was meant to be informative, and coercive to their general readership. I highly doubt most jw’s will actually read the article in it’s entirety, or be able to grasp the “science” badly portrayed within. I just finished reading the article, and it does render the same old fodder they pander to their audience. I truly wish they had a comment page, or an actual way to contact the hierarchy of the dogmatic pious. Please visit their website at http://www.watchtower.org and request a free bible study. Two men will arrive at your home, free of charge, and attempt to circumvent your intellect. This way you don’t have to find them, they will find you. You can be prepared to have the discussion, and speak to them about reason, and rationality openly and honestly. Best of luck to all my friendly atheist friends!

Dez wrote: “But if you like snakes, or already happen to have one, it works.”

Guns work too. I had my dad’s service revolver holstered on my hip one late evening when I was a teen and my parents were gone for the week (cop’s kid, I *like* toting firearms – LOL) and there’d been a robbery in the neighborhood. They looked at me . . . looked at the gun . . . looked back at me . . . looked back at the gun . . . asked if there was anyone *else* home . . . and left in a hurry. No JW ever came back, not even years later.

As an adult, in a different community, I had a JW who came to “study” with me. I was bored, she was a nice person (if somewhat misguided, from my perspective), so what the hell, right? She finally gave up because I was coming close to converting her!

I’ve never made my kids go knock on doors on Saturday morning to shove atheism down anyone’s throat. (Although when I was a child, my JW parents made me go knock on doors and “witness” about something I did not even understand…)

I read that article from beginning to end unlike those who took the opportunity to attack Awake! and it’s publishers by taking it out of context, to ‘expose’ the perceived hypocrisy. It simply opened with an attention getting statement (which worked)..then quotes individuals and their atheistic views. Look at it as free publicity for your views. Or you can read it with an attitude adjustment and be advised.