When Christians Get Bullied By Gays…

Well, now we know that Mike Adams is an idiot.

We also know that he has no compassion for other human beings. Yet, somehow he thinks that being a christian makes him better than other people.

I wish stupidity was painful.

Mike Adams is the definition of a bigot.

What Christians who “hate the sin, love the sinner” don’t understand is how that mentality removes the gay person’s humanity. They’re not their sexual identity, true – but what human doesn’t promote their capacity to love to the front of themselves? Even unconsciously? Those bigots argue, no, you can’t love. Your family will never be a real family. This part of you that cannot be changed is diseased and wrong. Something that feels that good and affirming – love – will condemn your soul for eternity. They hate what makes you YOU and only love the shell.

As we all know, that’s a bunch of crap.

There’s more truth found in the tabloids than from townhall.com.

Granted, professors should not tell students to ‘shut up,’ but even if true, this really doesn’t constitute ‘bullying’ anywhere remotely like what these poor kids went through. To make such a comparison is ghastly, bigoted, insulting and stupid.

People like Mike Adams almost make me wish there was a Hell.

People like Mike Adams almost make me wish there was a Hell.

Even more painful to read are the comments left by Christians.

Nothing so stupid can be uttered that a Christian won’t believe it; nothing so hateful and offensive that s/he won’t agree with it.

He was taking a class in the political science department when the issue of gay marriage came up. When Graham mentioned his opposition to same-sex marriage his professor told him to shut up. He then threatened him with prosecution under the university speech code.

I’d hope that we all find this objectionable (assuming it’s true). If a political science professor is simultaneously discussing a political issue and threatening prosecution against anyway who attempts to present an opposing viewpoint, something is seriously wrong.

The director of the local LGBSTQQCCISA (Lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgendered, queer, questioning, completely confused, indecisively-sexed, and allied) Center kept sending him emails promoting LGBSTQQCCISA issues.

Slightly less objectionable: that’s what spam filters are for. Nonetheless, if he were to sue them for spamming him (i.e., sending unsolicited e-mail after he specifically asked them not to), I’d be on his side.

For Adams, “bullying” Christians amounts to criticizing their beliefs

Perhaps it does. But the examples you’ve quoted go beyond criticizing beliefs. Note the presence of key words such as “threatened him with prosecution” and “did it to provoke him.” These are examples of authority figures abusing their power with the specific goal of either stifling a student’s free speech or intentionally causing a person discomfort out of spite. Neither is acceptable behavior.

Bad beliefs deserve criticism.

There’s a difference between criticizing a belief and criticizing the person that holds the belief. You can criticize the belief all you want (say, by blogging), but the person that holds that belief has the right to be left alone, even if you feel like haranguing them because their beliefs differ from yours.

I’d much rather be a Christian in the most liberal city in the country than be a gay man in the middle of the Bible Belt.

Personally, I find Christianity so disgusting that I’d rather be dead than be a Christian, but put that aside. The fact remains that even if Christians are abused less often than gays (and they are, of course), abusing them is still unacceptable.

There’s so much concentrated bull in that article it could fertilize several acres of farmland.

Being a Christian doesn’t automatically lead to such bigotry. Being an idiot leads to such bigotry. “Bullying” has nothing to do with telling a kid to shut his mouth because he’s being offensive. “Bullying” has nothing to do with SPAM. Otherwise, there’d be a lot more lawsuits out there.

“Bullying” has to do mocking people for how they feel, has to do with invading people’s privacy, broadcasting it on the web and then ridiculing them.

I am a Christian and proud of it. But I am also a firm supporter in the rights of all individuals and a firm believer in the power of love, no matter if it man to man, man to woman or woman to woman.

I wish people would focus on the important part of Christianity, which is love, and not all the hate. And I mean the Christians. If I didn’t know that Jesus taught love, I would become disgusted with most “Christians” myself.

These eight cases are all true except for one thing: The Christians who were bullied by gays and gay activists are all still alive. Not a single one has committed suicide. That is because they have centered their lives around Jesus Christ, rather than their sexual identity. And no amount of bullying can change my mind about that.

Translation: If you believe like I do, you won’t be at risk for suicide, no matter how much you are tormented by bullies. Because no true Scotsmen—er, I mean Christians ever commit suicide.

I’m angered that he thinks LGBT persons center their lives around their sexual identity. Can straight people—even those straight people who make it their life’s mission to dehumanize LGBT people—be said to “center their lives” around their sexual identity?

I’m going to link to Dan Savage’s column of last week because I think it’s relevant to this discussion, and so damn spot-on.

He couldn’t have taken his Christianity very seriously, since doing so would have guaranteed an eternity in hell for committing suicide.
I regret that he felt the need to kill himself, but I suspect there is something else going on here. Just a guess, but maybe he was in the closet.
BTW, the professor shouldn’t haven’t told him to shut up, it that’s what actually happened.

Adams trivializes the bullying of gays by comparing it to these comparatively trivial conflicts in his “incidents.” I don’t think he would last one day as a gay man, taking the abuse from his fellow bigots, after 2,000 days of it and seeing nothing but more of the same in the future. Christian or not, he’d collapse into despair like a punctured balloon.

As for Christian suicides, they happen. I used to work with suicidal people, and several were Christians. Two killed themselves while they were my patients. Their religion was no match for depression, and no comfort for the real world ordeals they suffered. Later I heard another Christian suggest that they “didn’t have enough faith.” That’s blaming the victim, and I told him so in very clear terms.

Years before that, I worked on a crisis hotline. One called me up, having already taken a handful of barbiturates. There was no way to “trace the call.” That’s only in the movies. He talked about being forgiven and going to heaven. In his mind at least, Christianity gave him license to do it. I was good at what I did, but nothing I said swayed him. So I sat there and kept him company until he dropped the phone. After it was quiet for a while, I hung up.

No one is saying Christians are unfit to be parents.

Apparently 73.53% of the respondents to a poll of yours do in fact believe that Christians are unfit to be parents…

“threatened him with prosecution under the university speech code” You can’t be ‘prosecuted’ under university rules. You can be sanctioned by the university, but you can’t actually be hauled in front of a court of law. Even in regards to a public university, you have to actually commit a crime before they can do anything other than sanctions.

As to these two incidents, they are so damned mild. I had to laugh at the second one, considering that this problem could have been easily eliminated by blocking a certain email address and the content of the emails were just the regular announcements. “they put me on the listserv” is probably the least egregious harassment accusation ever. Both of these incidents are so mild, I wish that the homophobia and transphobia I have experienced was so mild as one rude teacher or being stuck on an email list (and, seriously why can’t this dude work the block function on his email). I also suspect that this kids ‘opposition to gay marriage’ took more of an opposition in the form of genocide form than a ‘i have sensitive jesusy feelings’ form.

Oh, and the victim blaming assumption that suicide is a moral failure, classic christian as well.

Alex wrote:

Those bigots argue, no, you can’t love. Your family will never be a real family. This part of you that cannot be changed is diseased and wrong. Something that feels that good and affirming – love – will condemn your soul for eternity. They hate what makes you YOU and only love the shell.

As we all know, that’s a bunch of crap.

Nail. Head.

I cannot tell you how weary I am of seeing the ‘homosexuals being celibate is better than them having loving, committed relationships’ believers deal with their cognitive dissonance by saying that they truly ‘love’ gay people…..

horse pucky. Anyone who basically says ‘you don’t deserve to have a loving one-on-one romantic relationship with anyone; even if the other person is a consenting adult‘ to someone does not ‘love’ them. Period.

The director of the local LGBSTQQCCISA (Lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgendered, queer, questioning, completely confused, indecisively-sexed, and allied) Center kept sending him emails promoting LGBSTQQCCISA issues.

OH THE HORROR! Oh, the humanity! However did he manage to get on with his life? Oh, yes. Christianity. How reassuring the Word must be, to allow him to get through such adversity.

I’m going to make a film in honor of how he overcame such hardship. Boys Don’t Cry II. The inspirational story of one man and his attempt to clear his inbox. It’ll start with another Christian girl and her understandable response to receiving an email like that. Then it’ll move on to the professor’s story. At the very end, it’ll have those based-on-a-true-story “where are they now” titles:

None of these Christians actually died thanks to Jesus. The professor now teaches the flaws in evolution at his school. Jessica went on to lead a successful political campaign to oppose gay marriage.

Jeff,

Uh huh. And, please – don’t give us any bullcrap about how they don’t understand REAL Christian theology.

Can you point me to any teaching in the Bible that suggests that suicide is unforgivable?

I’m well aware of the danger of running around looking under kilts – but true Scotsmen are from Scotland, and true Christians generally base their beliefs on what the Bible has to say.

Calling yourself a Scotsman doesn’t make you Scottish, calling yourself a Christian doesn’t make you a Christian.

I’d love to know why Adams thinks that no victim of suicide has ever been a Christian. Belief in Jesus doesn’t take away the pain and even Christians get depressed sometimes.

I was very suicidal when I was a Christian teen. The suicidal tendencies evaporated when I left my fundy nutjob mother’s repressive home and broke free of religion.

LGBSTQQCCISA (Lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, transgendered, queer, questioning, completely confused, indecisively-sexed, and allied)

That derogatory bit of purposely effing with the initials to say mean things about organized efforts to promote equality kind of says it all about what a bigoted asshole he is.

Except, Miko, I’m finding it hard to believe any statement from a source that spends the whole article claiming suicides then admits he was lying about that at the end of the article. What else is he stretching the truth on? Yes, if these stories were in the news and showed interference with Christians rights, I’d be uh uh, you can’t do that shit. But this article just had me saying details, please. I sure didn’t want to take this jerk’s word for even claiming the events happened. Notice he didn’t even use last names.

Fundie Troll, you are once again being disingenous. That poll was about a specific incident wherein a specific parent was making a specific child approach strangers in a mall was child abuse or not — not if Christians in general are unfit parents. I voted yes because I was horrified that the parent was making their kid dangerously approach strangers but I’d vote no on a poll asking if Christians were unfit parents. Some are, most aren’t just like Atheists.

Nathan, sigh, it is not just the Catholics (gawd, what a bigoted assumption) that forbid suicide. When I was a suicidal teenager 35 years ago, I had to date been raised Protestant and taught commit suicide, go to hell. As Richard said, religion can’t compete with depression.

And, Richard, that story sent a chill up my spine. What a hard job and cudos to you for having the fortitude (not everyone could). There are probably lives you have saved just by being on the other end of the phone. I had a friend I called many times instead of making an attempt. To this day, I don’t think he knows he got me through.

“The main stream media isn’t covering the story so, as usual, I have taken it upon myself to do their jobs for them. None of the following eight cases have been covered by any of the three major news networks.”

and then…

“These eight cases are all true except for one thing: The Christians who were bullied by gays and gay activists are all still alive. Not a single one has committed suicide.”</blockquote
So there is no story, you make up a bunch of shit that ain't true and then chastise the "main stream media" for not covering it? Are your claims.(the ones you didn't already admit were a lie) even true? Just how much of your article is fabricated, you site no sources, how are we to know if anything you say is based in fact? The reason you have to "take it upon yourself" is that no creditable news organization would have you on staff or accept your work. It is pretty simple Mr. Adams, you are a crackpot, a instigator, a bigot, and a all around kook.

Mid wrote:

My love for gays is no different than my love for the homeless alcoholic lying in a gutter

It is these kind of comparisons that reveal something very different from ‘love’……and that is ignorant condescension.

My love for gays is no different than my love for the homeless alcoholic lying in a gutter, cursing God, or the preacher who runs off w/another man’s wife, or the atheist who mocks those who Believe. Take that as you will.

Yikes. You have a strange definition of “love.” I feel incredibly lucky not to have been exposed to this kind of belief system as a child. It sure seems to me like it warps one’s sense of morality and compassion.

Hi Muggle,

Nathan, sigh, it is not just the Catholics (gawd, what a bigoted assumption) that forbid suicide. When I was a suicidal teenager 35 years ago, I had to date been raised Protestant and taught commit suicide, go to hell.

It’s actually Catholic doctrine that suicide is an unforgivable sin because you’re committing what they class as a mortal sin without confession past the fact. That’s not bigoted. It’s the official position of the Catholic Church.

Since the protestant movement broke away from the Catholic church on the basis of grace v works (protestants believe God’s grace, and his sacrifice on our behalf, covers all sins from the moment of repentance) it’s a hard stretch to suggest that a Christian who commits suicide is somehow unforgivable just because they’ve broken one of the ten commandments. They may want to pull the “well, no true Christian would kill themselves, therefore that person is now in hell” card – but that looks like a fallacy to all of us doesn’t it? Especially when it has no basis in the Bible.

Protestant churches are more than capable of getting things wrong, as are protestants writing on the internet.

The guy in your link has just ripped a few verses out of separate arguments in separate passages without paying any regard to their context in order to build his particular case. It’s quote mining. And I know your feelings on quote mining…

he’s not a real Christian even though you aren’t supposed to make judgments about that but leave it to god to judge. (Frankly, being afraid to do just that and trust god’s judgement speaks volumes about how insecure you are in your faith…)

It’s great that you can quote one verse of the Bible at me (judge not lest ye be judged) – it’s apparently the atheist’s favourite Bible quotation (according to Google). And I commend you for lasting so many paragraphs before switching to an ad hominem attack (though not so many if you take out the paragraphs addressed to other people).

As Richard said, religion can’t compete with depression.

Agree. And I will continue to make that case to my misguided religious friends.

I think we can all agree that suicide is horrible, that churches misunderstanding mental illness is horrible, and that evoking fear in a depressed person on the basis of hell is also horrible. I was simply putting it out there that a) I think Hemant has misunderstood/misrepresented the “not a single one of them” statement – because in the context of the article he is clearly talking about his eight examples, and b) that the argument that Christians don’t commit suicide is based on the Catholic teaching on suicide, and bad (unbiblical) teaching from others – it’s not a position shared by all Christians, nor is it the default Christian position (not being explicitly stated anywhere in the Bible).

I am sick and tired of people who are bigots turning the situation around and claiming that they’re being discriminated against when someone criticizes their bigotry. They pretend to care about equality and justice when they’re really just making other people’s lives miserable. (They’ll then claim that LGBT people being depressed or suicidal is due to being LGBT, ignoring the effect that the discrimination can have on them.)

You’re right though Muggle – I did use an absolute term where I shouldn’t have, and for that I apologise. I guess my words were chosen poorly. And I retract them.

Let me say though, for the record, teachings that suggest that suicide is unforgivable are unbiblical and usually based on poor prooftexting and a misunderstanding of sin, depression and mental illness. A misunderstanding built on tradition, and not on the Bible, it doesn’t make them not Christian, it just means their position is impossible to theologically or scientifically justify.

Adams was pretty right but I believe you were brought to confusion when he mentioned how none of the Christians had commited suicide. When he made this remark he was specifically talking about the examples he had shown. Adams should have talked of how some Christians do commit suicide because they have not achieved a confident knowin of how God is always there for them. You are right when you say that it doesn’t take away the pain but it does make you stronger when you believe in Jesus. In response to your comment on how “bad beliefs deserve criticism;” Christianity is by NO means a bad belief! It is the one belief that is actually true! There is more proof of Christianity than evolution! Also, people have voted against Christianity; the put evolution in schools! Also, Christians have maintained many rights because of the logic of their belief. I am absolutely sure that Adams does care about the horrifying, deadly decisions that those people had made. He was making a point on how the Lord helps Christians to stand strong and not fall from disagreement.

We would NOT go to Hell! All the Lord asks of us is to believe that He sent his son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins and he rose from the dead As long as you believe that you will go to heaven. That doesn’t mean that you will not face the Lord’s judgement, but you will still enter Heaven!

That’s the thing about your God, Maggie – for an omnipotent being, he takes offense very easily.