Don’t Go Against God’s Will! September 25, 2010

Don’t Go Against God’s Will!

The comic Married to the Sea takes public domain images and adds captions to them. This one seems especially relevant to the conversation on this site:

Obviously, trying to limit damages in the wake of a natural disaster will invoke the wrath of God. You’re trying to circumvent His will. It’s futile to do anything of the sort.

(Thanks to Melinda for the link!)

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  • By way of this logic, curing disease is going against god’s will. All doctors are enemies of God.

  • The third possible answer is, “Well, it’s just God testing us, testing our will and our ingenuity, using the faculties that He bestowed upon us,” or some other nonsense.

  • Puzzled

    To be fair, I think the answer would be that you don’t leave some events out of God’s will and stick other events into it just because. If it’s God’s will that I get sick, then it’s also God’s will that doctors do their thing.

  • Richard Wade

    This particular either/or question has God intentionally willing the flood in both possibilities. So that part isn’t really an either/or question.

    The guy is wondering if they are freely and willfully choosing to “subvert” God’s will, (which would be impossible with an almighty being, wouldn’t it?) or if it’s God’s will that they’re sandbagging against the flood, which would imply that they do not have free will to make such a decision, that they’re thought puppets, and the whole scene is a mindless machine running through its pre-programmed function.

    Meanwhile, the girl in the raincoat, (who is probably an atheist) is clearly better prepared than the t-shirted idiot in the foreground. She is wondering “WTF? Why is that idiot taking so long with each sandbag?”

  • *shudders* I’m glad that *most* Christians don’t actually think like this. I remember going to New Orleans and people talking about how it was mostly Christian organizations – not the government as most of us know well – that were there right away.

  • Alex

    Of course what is missing is the Christian praying to god to stop the flood. It was unsettling to me to see a Christian group hold a prayer circle on the beach appealing to god to stop the oil leak. It was even more unsettling when our president does it!

  • Tim

    @Slickninja I’m sure many Christians think that; they never give doctors any credit anyway. Any time one of their flock is going in for surgery or any kind of medical treatment, they pray to God to help instead of having some confidence in the doctors who have years of training in saving people’s lives.

  • Andi

    I think many Christians believe that bad things that happen are the work of the Devil. So, many would say the devil sent the flood. Why then God can’t stop it doesn’t make any sense to me. Any way you look at it, believing some ‘thing’ made it happen is irrational.

  • Bah ha! By the way, I heard about the challenge you posed for Anne Jackson, and think it’s pretty cool of you to support her like that.

  • Carlie

    “There are over 700 Married to the Sea comics.”

    Why did you do this to me? Why? I had things to do this weekend!

  • Duo

    Fundie: “Moot point. You can’t subvert God’s will. Sheesh! If you could, he wouldn’t be God, now would he?”

  • Edmond

    There’s just no applying Occam’s razor to this! The flood has to be part of god’s plan, AND their sandbagging is part of his plan too, isn’t it? Shoot, it had to be part of god’s plan from the very beginning of TIME that this guy would wear a t-shirt during a flood! So the whole thing has to be a test, but of course god already knows the test results, too! He doesn’t really NEED to ever test anyone, since the reactions of all tests subjects are all part of his plan!

    How do people manage to rationalize the impossibility of gods? The only possible explanation for these kinds of disasters is that they are acts of nature with no gods involved, or the gods just do this stuff for KICKS.

  • MutantJedi

    Or you take the view that bad things are the fallout of the battle between God and his nemesis Satan. Satan got this flood past God probably because the faithful didn’t do their part in praying and praising. Now the faithful must bear the burden of their lack of faith. Oh the woman would now be seen as a tool of the devil, further undermining the faith of the people. She should tread carefully lest they see her for what she is….. a witch! When the wood dries out a bit, BURN HER! Lest God visits us with some worse plague!

    Religious Logic 101

  • Danny Wuvs Kittens

    But mutandjedi, how do you explain diseases and viruses that are CLEARLY designed by a creator to more efficiently fuck shit up?

    God HAD to have made them after the whole fruit incident, because shit was cash before then, and he took most of Satan’s power away after he rebelled(with the exception of being able to tempt people, but God put a cooldown time on it, just like World of Warcraft. Wouldn’t want Satan to get overpowered).

    So Satan must have had power to create such badass humankillers. Why doesn’t he just outright make nonbelievers like myself just crash and die, since his ultimate goal is to send us to the hell that God made to get back at God for kicking him out of heaven?

    Unless God made badass viruses. That would mean he made something bad, something that goes around killing kids, but that goes against the bible, which says that God can only do good, and that evil is the result of the fallen world.

    Or, one other possibility. God, Satan, and the bible are a crock of shit.

    Also, something is funny with the comments…a lot of my stuff hasn’t been going through.

    EDIT:Clearing my cache and restarting my browser seemed to resolve the issue, as the “request deletion” and “click to edit” box is coming up as it should.

  • MutantJedi

    I’m sorry Danny, but where in the Bible is it wrong to kill kids, especially when God says it is okay? So how could viruses that are made by God be bad, even if they kill kids? You are only calling these viruses bad because of your naturally limited insight into the workings of God’s mysterious mind and because of your lack of faith. With more faith you will blindly see that the virus is the loving work of God, a miracle of God’s grace. (Seriously, when I was a kid at a Bible camp in mosquito invested Alberta, the pastor was try to sell us “love the mosquito” because it was part of God’s creation.)

    Without little Billy dying of a horrible disease, how will we understand God’s love and plan for all of us?

  • Jeiel Aranal

    This is strangely appropriate. A lot of people here in the Philippines are remembering the epic flooding brought about by tropical storm Ondoy last year. I’m starting to see a lot of “thank gods” in my facebook feed.

  • littlejohn

    I think all young women should wear T-shirts during rainstorms. I also think everyone working out of Columbus, Ohio, should know how to spell “judgment.” But I also think everyone should be required to wear their underwear outside their pants, so what difference does my opinion make? I’ll get you yet, Moose and Squirrel! Is it too early to be drinking?

  • Michael

    Oof, opened the link and it’s a picture of a nekkid lady.

    Not a good thing to bring up at work.

  • flatlander100

    Hey, what about that blasphemous heathen in the picture thwarting god’s will by holding an umbrella? Clearly if god wanted him to stay dry in a rainstorm, the raindrops would not hit him. Using an umbrella to try to thwart god’s will should be an excommunication offense. At least.

  • muggle

    Actually, flatlander, he’s the one standing by doing nothing while the others protect themself against gawd’s flood, so maybe he’s the truly devout one. So gawd provided an umbrella.

    Of course, those heathens probably want to strangle him for just looking on and not helping to sandbag but, fortunately, for him, they’re too busy saving him from drowning so once again — it’s a miracle! Gawd has provided for him.

    Ai, my head hurts. How do they stand twisting logic around to make gawd plausible.

  • Danny Wuvs Kittens

    I guess you’re right. Hermant just posted a link to a story where God kills 42 kids with a bear for calling a prophet “baldhead”. Don’t fuck with Elisha.

  • God is notorious for killing just about anything for just about any reason. I wrote the history of the bible to clarify why God appears to be so angry.

  • I think the Christian attitude is that although God may be an asshole (causing floods and all) He is the only God they have and they sure (as hell) don’t want to go to hell so they will pray to Him anyway. The unspoken agreement (with Christians) is that God will do his will (floods, earthquakes, fires, etc) and the people will scurry around worshiping him and trying their best to save themselves both in this life and the next. If God wants to sit back and enjoy the spectacle, that’s His privilege since He is the great Creator. So therefore, most Christians don’t have a conflict with placing sandbags and thanking god at the same time even though they also believe that the flood is God’s will.

    Of course, once the seeds of doubt (in God’s existence) start to creep in, this whole house of cards can crumble.

  • ThilinaB

    I always found a joke i heard from a stand up comedian (think it was jimmy carr, but i could be mistake) to reflect the situation quite well.

    When we have a natural disaster, we call it an act of god. The next day we have a day of prayer.

    (praying to god)God, what in the bloody hell was that?“

  • Paceforgod

    Except for the fact that we may have been sick so that God could show us that He is all powerful, and to test us to see if we would turn to Him in our time of need.

  • Cecelia

    No, He could be testing us to see if we will turn to Him for comfort and protection in our time of need.

  • Cecelia

    You are right, in that it could be a test, but the test is to see whether we turn to God or not, even in our times of need.

  • Cecelia

     Satan cannot do anything that God does not allow him to do, regardless of whether believers pray or not.

  • Cecelia

    God has ultimate control over everything, Satan is able to ask God if Satan can send a flood, but God has the power to say no, but the flood may bring others to Him, and they would therefore not go to hell.

  • Cecelia

    Taking your post seriously (not as  rhetorically like it kind of sound)
    We can never understand God’s will, but we can come to know God’s love for us.

  • Cecelia

    Luke 4:12 Jesus answered, “It is said: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” Most likely referring to ; Deuteronomy 6:16 Do not test the LORD your God as you did at Massah.

  • Cecelia

     God is completely plausible, and the man standing there may not be the one speaking… putting aside the fact that the text was written after the picture was made. But God doesn’t want us to stand by and do nothing.

  • Cecelia

     No, Elisha called a curse on them in the name of God, and may have later realized that what he did was wrong. Also, Elisha was needed in Samaria, because the ruler there was corrupt, and Elisha had to speak to him for God.

  • Cecelia

    Because God is a just God? He is that, and cannot stand sin, and also knows that when we sin, we harm ourselves physically,  if we steal from someone, they are hurt, and we live with the guilt, and if we continue to do so, then we may eventually fall into depression, and that will also hurt those around us.

  • Cecelia

    God is a just God, and cannot stand sin, christians know that, and know that the flood may have been God’s judgment,  and it also may save the life of someone… save them from going to hell, or stop a murder in progress, or a rape, or anything.

  • Cecelia

    We are not puppets, God made us with a free will, and wants us to chose to follow Him.

  • Cecelia

     They pray, so that they can repent to God, if they did in fact do something that they know is against His perfect plan (which by the way, fits into His plan). Prayer is also a way to show that they wish to support the person, and the doctor. Not to mention the fact that they do have confidence in the doctor, but they have more in God, who has lived since before time began, and has more experience.

  • Cecelia

    You guys (and gals) really need to read Job, the whole book,, this is just the first chapter, but make sure you read all the way to the end where : Jo 42:12-17 The LORD blessed the latter part of Job’s life more than the former
    part. He had fourteen thousand sheep, six thousand camels, a thousand
    yoke of oxen and a thousand donkeys. And he also had seven sons and three daughters. The first daughter he named Jemimah, the second Keziah and the third Keren-Happuch. Nowhere in all the land were there found women as beautiful as Job’s
    daughters, and their father granted them an inheritance along with their
    brothers. After this, Job lived a hundred and forty years; he saw his children and their children to the fourth generation. And so Job died, an old man and full of years.
    By the way, if I don’t answer one of your later posts, it’s because I just stumbled across this page, and not because I don’t have an answer. I may not to some thing, but believe me, I would be the first to admit it (and I would). By the way, the answer to any question you may have is in the Bible… and if you don’t have one, here’s a link to an online Bible;

  • If that is the case, then the young man in the picture is definitely choosing to oppose God’s will, which, as part of the famous “plan,” includes flooding folks out of their homes.   With every sandbag he stacks, he’s trying to stop the will of God. Bad young man! Bad! To be truly following God, the young man should not just stop helping, he should actually tear down the sandbag wall which those other prideful, defiant, sinful people are trying to build. Bad people! Bad!

    If the only place in the universe where God’s will does not hold sway is inside our minds, then please explain the more than one occasion in Exodus when God “hardens the Pharaoh’s heart” against the Jews. The poor guy keeps wanting to let those pesky, kvetching slaves go, but God keeps coming in and changing his mind for him.  That story is about a little boy playing with action figures, making them move, talk, and act out the little drama he dreamed up. Moses and Pharaoh have no more “free will” than a G.I. Joe doll.

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