Atheist Donates Millions to New York Catholic Schools

The city schools could do better with that much money, too.

how misguided.

Obviously not an atheist.

‘union controlled inner-city schools’…sounds like he’s a capitalist first and atheist second.

Given the fact that Catholic schools not only prioritize indoctrination but that the Catholic Church in general has been shown to have a problem with raping children*, I’d say it’s a big FU. Is that really a reasonable tradeoff?

I’m speaking, of course, as a former Catholic schoolgirl. Sure, the education was okay, so long as it didn’t contradict the Holy Writ too much. I’ve told my parents that I might have gone into science instead of art if I had gotten a decent damn science education instead of “yeah, well, we have to mention evolution, they think we came from monkeys, how silly is that? Ha ha! Now lets open our Bibles to Genesis and see how it really happened!”

Not to mention that mindless obedience was enforced as a priority over human decency. Mild insubordination earned an immediate expulsion. Physically brutalizing another student earned you a 25 minute detention. As long as you always did exactly as you were told by an authority figure, nothing else really mattered.

Fantastic way to prime the little ones for the dear Father’s visits. *groan*

He’d do much better to use the money to try and either improve the public schools or open up some kind of educational program himself.

*Somehow, I imagine that line being read by Sideshow Bob. “You know I used to have…a problem….-cough-…with trying to kill people…?”

I would take most Catholic schools over most public schools any day of the week (of course there are exceptions). I even offered to send my nephews to a local Catholic elementary school until 7th grade (my evangelical sister-in-law refused the request for some reason or another).

@Greg
Speaking as a fellow atheist if you really think all Catholics schools are all about the “indoctrination and miseducation of innocent children” your perspective is royally fucked.

He’s given hundreds of millions of dollars to some good charities – that makes him one hell of a good person in my book.

Now if he’d just kindly send some cash to the Foundation Beyond Belief, the National Center for Science Education and maybe the American Humanist Association, the man would rival Gates, IMO!!!

Perhaps he just needs a little encouragement? 😉

It is his money and he may spend it as he pleases I suppose. How I feel about it is mostly irrelevant.

I can say I err slightly on the side of “I don’t like it,” though. I think there are more worthwhile applications of such generous gifts than sinking it further into -anything- religion-related, be it an educational institution or not.

I don’t really have an issue with him donating to a catholic school, being the product of a liberal system that taught science, human sexuality and about other religions. What I do have an issue with is his reasoning, not the union controlled comment either, but the “no child left behind” reasoning of the public schools are failing, don’t have the funds to get proper books, do proper upkeep, pay their teachers a livable wage, engage their students successfully, and adequately prepare those students for college and beyond…so let’s not give them any money! WTF?!?!

Just read the article more closely. It seems as though he’s been contributing for some time. He is giving to an educational institution. My feeling is that if Rev. Dolan didn’t want to allow an atheist to be seen in a good light, the onus was on him to reject the money. This is a big plus for the positive face of Atheism. I too went through the Catholic school system. I recalled little to no indoctrination outside of religion class, which was seen as a bludge, anyway. My teachers were mainly lay people; two were openly gay, and even the staff were accepting of them. I only had one or two priests as teachers, and they were mainly for relief.

I reckon this is a win on a few levels. My vote is for atheist philanthropist worthy of respect. (Note: he does give to other charities including conservation funds).

Those schools are already doing well, they don’t need money. God knows (hah!) the Church rakes in enough ill-begotten money to fund their indoctrination mills. If the guy acknowledges that the public schools aren’t doing as well, shouldn’t that make it obvious that they’re the ones who need (and deserve) his donations? I vote philanthropist worthy of respect ONLY for supporting education (religious as it may be), but I vote definite FU (nice rageguy reference if I caught your drift) for not donating to public schools or secular charities. Traitor…maybe. But probably not.

The “poor quality” inner city public schools routinely are underfunded and understaffed. A donation of that size could have turned around some of those schools and made them better, without the indoctrination and child rape. The man’s a clueless git. He’s not a traitor to atheism (or any such bunk, what the hell does that mean anyway), but he is supporting the corruption of children. Hmm…I’ll add wanker to the pot as well.

I am an atheist who was sent to a private Catholic school which was of much higher quality than the surrounding public schools. You think PUBLIC schools won’t be corrupted by that money? Google “Kansas City School District” for a bit of research.

Maybe he knew the school was quality and would do well with the money. As much as I despise the Catholic religion (and I truly do), sometimes atheists act like 100% of Catholics and Catholic priests rape small boys.

He can decide to spend his money as he sees fit. I have decided that I don’t want to give to religious charities, but others see things differently.

Now, if I had $5 million to give to a school, and I didn’t want it to go to the “union controlled” public schools, well, that money would go a long way towards setting up a secular private school, or for scholarships at an existing one..

I think he can donate to whatever school he wants, but cut the rationalization because it just doesn’t make sense. If the inner-city schools are currently doing worse, wouldn’t they get more benefit out of the donation?

@flawedprefect, Darwin’s Dagger, alopiasmag, tim, Ben, Andrew, & Kaylya:

What the hell is wrong with you people? Don’t you see that the shepherd is here to herd you along? The herd is nicely moving along THAT way – so why aren’t YOU falling in line?!?

Damn free thinkers and their determination to think for themselves…

The Catholic church won’t let us teach at their schools but they’ll gladly take our money.

Having gone to public schools through 8th grade, and an all boys Catholic school for high school, I can say the Catholic school gave me a far superior education. In fact, I think all the religion classes actually led more people away from religion, as we actually learned about the history of the church, what is actually in the bible, the ridiculous teachings of the Catholic church, as well as the plethora of world religions.

I firmly believe that I went to the best academic high school in Ohio (we actually cared about academics rather than football) and even though I am firmly in the atheist camp, I would not hesitate to send my son(s) to the high school I went to.

Although if I ever do donate back there (once I get out of grad school and actually make money) I’d make sure that it went to scholarships for students rather than to the Columbus diocese as a whole, which is apparently close to what Robert Wilson has done.

While it is ultimately his right to give his money to whomever/whatever he chooses, his reasoning is specious.

Most of what the Catholic schools teach are the three Rs…

Even if it were true that Catholic schools excelled in teaching those three subjects, I don’t put as much importance on them past about third or fourth grade. Math, science and computers are much more important (in my opinion) in this day and age. The importance of the scientific method and the critical thinking that comes with it cannot be overstated.

Plus calling those three subjects “the three R’s” has always gotten on my nerves (I’m 28 if that matters, I heard it a lot in early grade school and always found it to be an annoying oversimplification, even if my thoughts weren’t couched in that particular phrase at the time).

I don’t like it politically, but I think it’s a wonderful example of being good without god. First off: A lot of my personal atheist friends went to Catholic School, so I’m not too worried about this guy funding mind-warping. Secondly, a Catholic school is still a school and the funding of education is vital for freedom of mind or anything else. Third, It’s pretty good outreach. When Catholic parents find out an atheist gave them millions of dollars, they may at least say to themselves “Atheists aren’t so bad. Maybe we can stop demonizing them.”

I wish it had been public schools, but I abhor the idea of calling someone a ‘traitor’ to atheism. There’s nothing to adhere to in atheism nor is there anything to betray.

Kinda hope they return the money. It would at once both demonstrate and correct his error in judgment.

I have to admit that everyone I know that went to a Catholic school are far more successful and were so earlier in life than those of us that went to public school. I am just now in my graduate program and most of my Catholic school friends finished theirs over 10 years ago. I’m also one of only a few out of the public school bunch, in my group of friends, who went beyond an associates degree. Most didn’t even make it that far.

Traitor? No, we don’t have loyalty pledges. Maybe if he had donated to, say, the Discovery Institute, it would be closer to traitorous, because amongst other things they promote the idea that atheism leads to immorality.

I certainly consider it a misguided donation, that would be better spent in more secular educational charities, but he could also have not given a cent to anyone and we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all. Frankly I find his previous donations to the archdiocese far more troubling. If he just gave money to the church outright, then it may have gone to fund anti-condom intiatives in Africa or to paying the lawyers employed in shielding pedophiles and their enablers in the church. THAT is actively immoral, donating to Catholic schools just mildly stupid.

I just think of how many secular schollarships that could have created. But you know how hard up the Catholic church is.

Wow, Im surprised at the number of negative responses.

A few corrections about misconceptions.

The Catholic schools are separate institutions from the Catholic church.
Many of them around the US are closing because they are underfunded.
Most have very high academic standards. Teachers are kept on merit, not seniority.
Catholic schools in the US have higher than average GPA, and college graduation rates.

I didn’t go to a Catholic school. I learned these things when I was criticizing them. As bit of anecdotal evidence, everyone I personally know who attended a Catholic school is an atheist.

Our public school system still needs work. It has deep flaws that money alone won’t fix. I can understand why he wouldn’t want to throw a pile of money on them, only to see it wasted.

I wish there were a better option (or maybe there is, and he just didn’t find it), but I’m glad he is supporting education. The more kids are exposed to real education, including philosophy and real science, the better equipped they will be to tackle the world. As for atheism, the more they attend college, the more likely they will be to give up religion (there is a clear correlation between secular thinking and higher education)

And last, he clearly has a problem with unions. Im no free market capitalist, but I do agree that many unions are working against the long term welfare of their members. The entire concept of unions needs to be rethought and reworked, just like our education system.

Im giving his donation the Mediocre Pragmatist Philanthropist of the Year award. Good job throwing money at a complex problem. It’s marginally better than doing nothing.

“And they do it better than the union-controlled inner-city schools.”

Right. Wing. Nutbag. Denis Robert has it exactly correct.

stogo, well said. He can do what he wants with his money — including being an asshole with it, which is what he is doing here.

Frankly, I have my doubts he is Atheist. Something about this story stinks to high heaven.

It’s just not logical. Okay, you can argue if it were several thousand that he felt the education was better but $5 million could have opened up an excellent secular (not Catholic or freethought just not taking a stand; you know, like the public schools are supposed to do) school in the inner city and probably made it tuition free to many. Or even paid for scholarships to private schools for hundreds of inner city kids. He could have done that without stipulating what school. The parents could have used them at the Catholic (he’s not the government, after all) or whatever school of their choice. Maybe he’s got something against Jews for all we know and didn’t want to give any to their schools which are easily as excellent as the Catholic without the scandal. Or a Muslim, Hindu, etc. school (This is New York; they must have a broad variety of religious schools which begs the question, why the Catholic?).

I seriously smell a rat and I don’t think it’s just to do with unions but with some sort of religious bigotry. Otherwise, he’d have spent the $5 million on schools of the parents’ choice. (No money would have gone to public schools since there’s no charge to parents for them.)

I think his reasoning is basically on the mark. I went to a relatively good public school, and it was mediocre. Also, teachers unions can make it very hard to fire bad teachers. On the other hand, aren’t there secular private schools he could have given the money to? Or, couldn’t he have set up a scholarship fund to help poor students attend private schools?

Also, I don’t expect a productive debate about economics in this thread, but since someone dissed the free market in this thread, I may was well respond in kind: FU.

I’m of the sentiment that his donation may end up being a great example of doing good for goodness’ sake. I may not agree with the “union-controlled inner city schools” hogwash, but the guy gave a boatload money because he felt this organization had done a good job of educating children, whether or not he agreed with their woo. I may have a soft spot in my heart for this sort of thing, admittedly. I went to a Catholic college and received a fantastic education. Admittedly, it’s a very progressive Catholic college. Most of the faculty were Catholic, certainly, but I was taught by a few Jewish professors, a Muslim from Bosnia, and even an open atheist. The student body was polled to be only around 55% Catholic as well, so this may have had something to do with it. Looking back, I realize it reflects more positively on the school than the entire institution of Catholic education.

“Privately funded Catholic schools do well precisely because they have all of that private funding.”

I don’t believe this is a factor in why Catholic school students do well. Cathoilic schools usually have far less money than public schools. Private schools due well with less money because they have the luxury of selecting who they teach.

I grew up Catholic in the northeast, it’s not taken seriously at all. I also went to Catholic high school where religion was negligible.

I don’t disagree with him based on religion, but based on the same argument I have against private school vouchers. Give the same money to public schools to make them better, because in principle, public education is a much better long-term education strategy. If it wasn’t, we should hire private police forces and fire departments.

If you like vouchers, or giving up on public… anything, than do some research and look at what happens when our prisons have been privatized.

It depends on how good that school is. I went to a Catholic school and it was pretty good (evolution and sex ed was accurate and not bias, and no creationism at all!) and bible study was why I chose the atheist path (I was first in that class, how funny… I think reading the Bible and see for yourself is the best way to become critical thinker) then again, living in a different country were socialism (and therefore secular thinking) has a lot of influence could be the key point here.

I must admit I’m in favor of anything that increases the number of Catholic schoolgirls in the general population.

In my own experience, catholic schools turn out more atheists and deists than they do True Catholics. Probably because they encourage reading the bible and talking about beliefs, or at least my liberal catholic high school in bay area California did.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

As a Catholic school survivor (pre-K though 12th) I’m gonna say that no Catholic school deserves that kind of money. I’m pretty sure I hit the lottery in happening to find two science teachers who were willing to ignore the school’s dogma and teach like professionals(One of whom was a closet lesbian who got sacked after she was outed the year after I graduated.)

Tack onto that the fact that I was barred from taking AP Chem and Calculus because they “conflicted” with the scheduling of my mandatory religion classes and almost missed the AP Bio exam for a mandatory Kairos retreat (perhaps you’ve heard of this particular farce) and you get an idea of just how seriously these people take real education.

Sure, I got my 3 Rs (barely), but philanthropists of this nature need to remember that that 4th overwhelming R (religion) not only taints every aspect of the education provided, it also plays a huge role in actively blocking students interested in something more substantial than a prayer from pursing opportunities in the sciences.

demonhype, once again, I am applauding you! Well said.

You too, gyhtyy! Thank you very much. I am so sick of union trashing. Only reason to do away with the unions is to bring back the baron tycoons. And take a good look at what’s happening now that so many people buy the anti-union retoric. Unions are far from perfect and there is corruption but, hell, they’re still the only protection from total exploitation those born poor and unlucky have got.

And I swear those who trash unions are the same ones who bemoan the disappearing middle class and the widening gap between the rich and the poor? Uh, hello, what the hell do you think is causing that? It’s the rich assholes getting away with their stinking let them eat cake attitude.

I think I just named the rat I was smelling. Could it be that Catholic schools teach conformity and fear so much better than public schools? And this guy ain’t exactly unbiased as to whose side he’s on, the rich or the poor. I wonder how many of those poor kids he’s endowing an education in the den of pedophyllic cover up have parents working in his factories, figuratively speaking.

Frankly, I live in upstate where I grew up. For the first time in my memory, the Catholic schools are having to advertise. Uh, gee, you think the scandal has anything to do with that?

They’ve never needed to before. They were the affordable alternative to public school especially with troubled kids. I’ve known a lot of Catholic school graduates and, man, from the still pious to the lapsed to the laughing at the god notion, I’ve noticed one thing: every last one has Catholic school scars and horror stories about the nuns.