The Dad and the Abortion Protesters

He didn’t straight out curse at them like I would which is good. He really didn’t even have to explain his situation so in depth, it shouldn’t matter what the reason, going to get the procedure is a personal decision.

I really like that he pointed out that if they really wanted to make an impact they could use their time contructively helping others rather than wasting it harassing people. He could have emphasized more on how much more effective they could be by helping. Maybe that would make them think twice about wasting an afternoon standing in the street.

I’ve been in this situation and it’s hard and I can’t imagine how much harder it would be with assholes like that around.

You cannot convince that side to stop what they doing through reasoned discourse any more than you can convince the cold virus to leave you body, or the tick to disengage its mandibles from your dog.

I don’t know, I thought Aaron handled it fairly well being such a extremely sensitive and personal issue for him.

I think it would be extremely difficult to react calmly if you had such an encounter under the circumstance that he was in at the time.

Agreed. Trying to talk to them is like talking to a brick wall. They know what they know and they’ll never change. Everything you say has a dogma-inspired, rubber-stamped response, and the few thing they can’t respond to result in glares and cold shoulders.
P.S. Feel that love of jesus radiating from them.

All things considered, I think he did quite well as far as keeping himself in check. Personally I probably would’ve said worse. Bravo for making a stand on that. But as far as talking to these people, it gets nowhere. They believe it’s better to openly harass people than to provide the information itself to be found when necessary.

I think he was right on. There’s really no rational argument with this sort of blind, uncomprehending opposition. Sometimes the best thing you can try to do is shame someone into reflecting on just how ridiculous they’re being.

In heated situations if I can keep my cool I try to avoid making statements which can be wrong or argued against. Instead I ask aggressive questions in an attempt to make them think and or to trip them. Is it moral for your god to deform a fetus? Do you approve of god killing my wife if she doesn’t have an abortion? If you can’t answer my questions then how well do you know your god? Etc… Rhetorical and underhanded, perhaps not at all effective but there it is.

That’s what’s wrong with deranged beliefs. They use a claim to empathy to be cruel and heartless.

Nothing is more infuriating than wielding things that should be good to do harm.

Good for him to let them know. It probably doesn’t help but it is better than not saying anything.

First of all thanks for posting about the situation and starting a discussion. That’s my main goal.

Second, I hear what you’re saying. Believe me, even now when I watch the video I cringe because I think of things I should’ve said and wish I had kept my wits about me a little more.

But my goal was not to change their minds. I know they’re never going to change. All I wanted to do was confront them and shine a light on their stupidity. For instance, the part where she threatens to call the cops on me. That right there, more than anything, shows their hypocrisy. I’m standing on the same patch of public ground they are but they want to arrest me for shouting at them, while they do the same things to vulnerable women.

All too often they go unchallenged and I think they gain confidence because of that. But if people calmly confront and challenge them, I truly believe that will have an effect. Not a huge one and certainly not enough to stop them from being out there, but anything is better than nothing.

So I’m curious, what’s your suggestion in this type of situation?

He did a damn good job. Now at the end I think he was just frustrated and that spurred the “lowest common denominator” (fsm I hope I spelled that right or hemant is gonna KILL me).

I’ve been lucky and have not had to face that decision like he and his wife, but he handled it well I thnk

I think he was too easy on them. These protesters are accosting women who are enduring one of the most stressful events that can happen to a person, and manage to make them feel even worse, all while claiming they are acting out of “love”. Their arrogance is unbelievable. Let’em have it!

I think he did the absolutely right thing. These people do not deserve to be “engaged in dialog” but yelled at and harassed as they are harassing people on the street.We need more people like him.

I remember seeing an article about abortion protesters, and how they have had abortions of their own, and later had been back protesting at people having abortions.

“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”

You know, I’ve had the same thing happen to me when going to Planned Parenthood for birth control. It makes you feel like absolute shit when you can’t even obtain birth control without being harassed. Most of the time I just drive by without saying anything, but on occasion I throw a “Fuck You” out at them.

I don’t really care if I’m just ‘feeding’ the protester. I deserve not to be bullied and harassed just because I’m picking up birth control. Most of the time I hold my tongue, but you can only do that so many times before you have to unleash the beast. 😀

Kudos to him. There is no better way to talk with people who are so deranged. He had every right to make himself feel better. Maybe it wasn’t the most diplomatic way and maybe he could have chosen a different approach, but I would have just gone out and tasered the bitch. So I think his response was mature and justified.

Maybe I am not as mature as I should be. But people don’t get to hurt people I love, especially when they are already going through such a difficult experience, without hearing what’s on my mind.

I hope one day someone in the religious community, who is respected by these twatwaffles, comes out at tells them what they are doing isn’t Christ like.

Kudos to Aaron for confronting the protesters. I thought he was remarkably composed, considering the circumstances. Much more composed than my husband or I would have been if we were in his shoes.

I don’t think there is any way to communicate effectively in this scenario. You can’t reason someone out of a position they haven’t reasoned themselves into. Sometimes venting a little of the hurt they cause back to them is all a person can do.

Kudos for him — Not for changing anyone’s mind necessarily. — But for holding his own as he did. Sure these cases are emotional, and yes his example is a primary one of why Abortion is needed. So here’s what’s good about it:

1. It was just words, no physical contact. — No Violence.

2. No Arrests. If the protesters can be there, so can he.

3. In short he needed to let off steam, and did it without violence.

Think about what the protester said. — her abortion should have been done in a hospital.

— Well apparently not. this clinic, or whatever it was is was likely cheaper than the hospital, and easier. The abortion protester did at one point admit medically necessary abortions are needed.
— You just can’t make those kind invisible.

But like I said this won’t change anyone’s mind. What will. — Sponsored debates maybe. — I’ve seen a few at the college level, several years ago.

At some point, it has to become a liability for them to protest, or they will not stop.
Human nature cannot and will not change.
The cost of protesting has to be so high as to make it any arguments in favor of it untenable. One thing is for sure, you aren’t going to change their minds by talking reason into them.
Some do’s and don’ts…
*Pick one or two of them and make them your “hobby”.
*Get their names. City halls keep tax records and names. Names can be had any number of ways.
*Videotape them.
*Photograph them.
*Follow them home and write down their addresses.
*Write down vehicle descriptions and plate numbers.
*File nuisance lawsuits against them.
*Publish true stories about them online, accompanied by their photos and other pertinent information, of course. Be sure to consult an attorney before doing so.
The cops cannot stop you from doing any of the above.
Most important – make sure the targets know you are doing this.
Never:
*Never threaten them. This includes getting in their face and yelling. Stay out of their physical space unless they attack you.
*Never photograph or name their children
*Never touch them or their property
*Never slander or libel them

On average, we are smarter than they are. We just lack the leadership and sometimes, it seems, the righteous anger. It takes a cold rage and a strong will to beat these scum.

The Godless Monster does raise an interesting point. It might be smart to even start a few websites that are dedicated solely to publishing information on these people online. I’m sure with the help of google hits, photoshop contests, etc., we could make this a nice nasty way of getting them to stop. Or at least we could make them very unattractive to potential employers.

Separate pages for each person would make them VERY searchable in google. The goal being to get them to be the first online hit for that name. Pictures, personal information, etc. Whatever’s legally publishable.

Certainly a nasty thing to do, but then again, so is harassing people who are going in for surgery. Who wants to make the website?

I can’t fathom how harassing someone for trying to enter a clinic or hospital can be legal. It’s outright sinister and dangerous.
Wouldn’t cops react to that, really?

Aric said:

I’m with you all here, but for the sake of understanding, it may help to remember that these protesters truly believe that every father, mother, doctor, and nurse involved in an abortion is committing murder. The same as killing a human who is out walking around. What would you do if you believed that?

If I really believed that, I’d ask for the same punishment to be given for abortion that is given for murder. But you don’t see a lot of anti-choice people pushing for the death penalty for abortion, which leads me to believe that they know, deep down, that there’s a meaningful difference.

Don’t abort the stillborn!

I can only imagine how angry I would be in such a situation. I honestly think more people should confront these assholes and let them know the reality of the women who go into these clinics for abortions. I think they need to know the stories. The sad part is most people do not confront them. The protesters are left living in their closed bubble, only hearing the horror stories their pastors or others talk about in church or learning the lies told to them by other extreme anti-choicers. They need to be taught the reality of many women’s situations. Told the truth. They especially need to hear the truth from the women who have/have had abortions and from the woman’s loving partner or friend or family who support them through the decision. I do believe that this will be the only way to get through to these people.

I wish more people did what this father did. The only way to make sure they hear you is to engage one on one with these people. He may have not changed their minds there, but if more people went up to them and told them their stories or let them know the reality of their decision then maybe, slowly, they would begin to question the bullshit black and white ideology they had been force fed for dog knows how long.

If I really believed that, I’d ask for the same punishment to be given for abortion that is given for murder. But you don’t see a lot of anti-choice people pushing for the death penalty for abortion, which leads me to believe that they know, deep down, that there’s a meaningful difference.

Abortion is a capital crime in Utah, punishable by death for the doctor who “commits” one. Only Roe v. Wade and the fact that federal law supersedes state law keeps doctors from facing a lethal injection.

It is likely that nothing will ever work with these despicable people. I might try reading the bible to them over and over again where god orders the slaughter of men, women and children.

He handled it extremely well, in my opinion. Those people are absolutely disgusting. I think it’s a little funny how they didn’t want to be on camera OR have the man out there at all when they were the ones harassing people about something that has absolutely nothing to do with them.

If they really cared about having fewer abortions, they’d donate to planned parenthood themselves. Planned parenthood prevents abortions by providing health services and contraception.

These people make me so mad I can’t even speak. They have no compassion and seem to forget that WOMEN ARE PEOPLE.

I think being confronted with someone who needed an abortion for health reasons was good for them. They aren’t taught to think about people like his wife. They can’t see him as a baby killer, that must have stuck with them.

I don’t think anything Aaron said was over-the-top. Being confronted by the righteous anger of an actual person was a healthy dose of reality for these women.
Perhaps a campaign of pro-choice counter-protests (like those who confront the Westboro Baptist Church) randomly popping up to mingle with them might shake their assured, self-righteous confidence.

Yeah, he played into their hands so deeply that he shamed them into leaving. That’s an exceptionally clever and subtle plan those anti-women protesters had there. Kudos to you for spotting it. :eyeroll:

The guy did better than most people would have managed. I’d probably still be in jail right now if that were my wife.

What to say?

Announce that the fetus is a witch, then quote them
Exodus 22:18 (King James Version)
and make them look it up.

Yeah, I think he did the right thing. With much more control than I personally would have show these horrible people. I think it’s ok to show your passion when it comes to things that are so vehemently wrong.

You said yourself “You’re not going to convince the other side to stop what they’re doing” and I agree. But sometimes it feels good to just call people on their BS, even if they are going to continue their BS. I imagine that a good and diplomatic conversation would have fallen on deaf ears anyway. And honestly, these cretins don’t deserve to be treated fairly and diplomatically. I was watching the video waiting for him to go ape shit crazy on them.

There should be an ad campaign of women talking about their experiences with abortion: what made them decide, how difficult the decision was, and how it felt to be screamed at for the decisions they made. That way, pro-choice gets a higher and more human profile, and maybe those who protest will feel less comfortable with what they do, and those who pass these protests will feel less comfortable walking by.

Sarah, that was actually done in (West) Germany in the 1970’s:

http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_image.cfm?image_id=1592

@Daddy Files:

Kudos. I thought it was brilliant. Fuck those ladies; who cares if they change their mind? But shaming them on video and putting it up on YouTube is going to have a big effect on any fence-sitters out there who happen to watch.

And Hemant, he didn’t “call them names”. The worst he did was call them “lowest common denominators”, which, intellectually, is absolutely true.

Actually, I would have done the opposite. I wouldn’t have videotaped it , and I WOULD have cussed them out.

Which would have been useless. Wouldn’t have changed the minds of those brick walls there.

But putting it on video on youtube will change minds of people who watch it.

I think what he did was great, and the name calling was quite tame, considering. I think if everyone that visited these clinics approached the protesters and gave them a piece of their minds, it would make it more stressful for the protesters and possibly not worth their while. As it is, most people hang their head while trying to ignore them, which just gives the impression they are ashamed. I say if they dish it, they need to be able to take it.

I drive by a Woman’s Clinic almost daily. I know when they are open. I see the same old couple there with their aborted fetus photos propped up on a baby stroller. They have an armful of Rosaries and aggressive responses to any car entering the parking lot. Some days they are alone, others they have a prayer circle of people around the door standing on the sidewalk in front. They think they are so wonderful! They are just wasting time. I wonder if they realize that in our inner city hood, life is difficult and many don’t have the luxury of another mouth to feed. Cold, calculated and merciless.

I think it would be good to have a peaceful counter protest to support the people heading into the clinic. Just some simple signs saying something “I support your right to do what is best for yourself and your health.”. This would be for the benefit of the people needing the service, not the protesters. People that support abortion rights should set an example of how to really care for their fellow human beings. They could maybe arm themselves with support materials- particularly for people having to attend the clinic alone. I’m not sure what these “support materials” would entail as I’m not sure what people need in this situation. Any ideas?

Anyway, lead by example. Donate time and money to help people in the ways that count. Be there to care and not for self-righteous superiority.

I think Aaron handled that pretty well. He didn’t swear at them, or get violent. He just argued with justified anger. Unfortunately, I doubt they’ll really take the time to think about what he said, but maybe other people who see this on Youtube will re-examine how their views effect others.

Going to have to disagree to Hemant here and voice my approval and admiration for @DaddyFiles. Considering the situation, he was remarkably collected and cordial to those two individuals.

And while I doubt they were going to drop their signs and go home after a single confrontation, I think having people come up to them like he did and put something approaching a human face to the people their harassing is a perfectly viable approach.

As someone not emotionally involved with specific persons affected by abortion protesters’ harrassment activities or threatening presence, I would still like to stir *some* thought in those protesters because it may be possible and because what I’d like them to consider may affect their voting behavior at some point. I’d like to ask them: “How many of you consider this issue to be a major reason why you vote for Republicans?”. If most of them raise their hands, then I’d say: “For those of you who do, why didn’t Republicans, when they were in power under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II, enact legislation to over-turn Roe v. Wade?”. Then I’d propose an answer: either they wanted to keep the issue alive in order for Republicans to get elected and re-elected over and over, or not enough of them believe in your cause. Actually, I think they failed to do it for both reasons. So what would that say about Republicans? And, specifically, do Republicans really want to make abortions illegal? I believe you’re mistaken if you think they do”. If only a small portion of them raise their hands, I would probably want to ask them something else to get some of them thinking, but I’m guessing that wouldn’t be necessary.

If all the hospitals where a woman lives (which is often only one hospital) are controlled by religions, that is often not even an option, regardless of financial concerns.

I don’t know a lot about this topic, but I was under the impression that abortion clinics are only needed because hospitals in general refuse to perform abortions, except in extreme medical emergencies. I’m not sure if that’s true of all hospitals or just religious ones, but I thought that they don’t perform them because they are afraid of threats and harassment. It’s always struck me as wrong that there has to be a special place set aside just for abortions. They should be available at regular hospitals and medical clinics. If nothing else, that would sure make it a lot harder to harass doctors and patients.

I liked his suggestion to the sign holders to help with others, raising their children. This is something that NONE of these abortion protestors have ever offered up to do. If they are pushing to have the birth vs. an abortion, maybe they should offer daycare and other services to help an unwanted child be raised.

Of course, in this case, MJ had a serious health issue that would have caused the baby to be stillborn.

This guy was pretty direct and to the point. And he also made another great point: none of these protestors have no clue why the woman is there. They just assume.

What about showing up with a “These guys are crazy”-sign and just hang with them for as long as they’re there. They couldn’t legally drive you off, could they?

Abortion is at its heart a moral issue. If you believe that children from the moment of conception are human beings with rights than protesting in front of abortion clinics or praying in front of abortion clinics is a valid response to the immorality that has ended the lives of over 50 million innocent children in this country in the last 37 years. Abortion protesters may seem insensitive to the adults who are having the abortion, but in reality they are being extremely sensitive to the needs of the unborn child. No doubt, there are better ways than others to stand up for the human right to life of unborn children, but there are many cases of people who were simply praying in front of clinics being verbally and physically assaulted. This issue will not go away because at its heart it is about the most fundamental right of all, life.