Mark Twain Would Have Been an Excellent New Atheist

I love it.

Ah, if only we could bring him back, I think perhaps he was smart to request a 100 year ban there, give people enough time to start thinking.
But then again, perhaps he should have given it a couple of hundred more.

I’ve always been fond of this response he sent to a librarian after being informed the Brooklyn Library wanted to ban his books.

Dear Sir:

I am greatly troubled by what you say. I wrote Tom Sawyer & Huck Finn for adults exclusively, & it always distressed me when I find that boys and girls have been allowed access to them. The mind that becomes soiled in youth can never again be washed clean. I know this by my own experience, & to this day I cherish an unappeased bitterness against the unfaithful guardians of my young life, who not only permitted but compelled me to read an unexpurgated Bible through before I was 15 years old. None can do that and ever draw a clean sweet breath again on this side of the grave. Ask that young lady – she will tell you so.

Most honestly do I wish I could say a softening word or two in defence of Huck’s character, since you wish it, but really in my opinion it is no better than God’s (in the Ahab & 97 others), & the rest of the sacred brotherhood.

If there is an Unexpurgated [Bible] in the Children’s Department, won’t you please help that young woman remove Tom & Huck from that questionable companionship?

Sincerely yours,
S. L. Clemens

cute.

I love Twain. I just reread Letters From The Earth. He demolishes christianity within the first 20 pages.

I will be purchasing this!

More here: Mark Twain’s Autobiography Set for Unveiling, a Century After His Death. Fast forward to the 4:45 mark for more juicy quotes.

I’m glad that so-called “librarian” is long dead and turned to dust. He would not even come close to ever holding a position in a public library today.

I’ve been married to a librarian for 38 years and I’ve never encountered anyone more passionate, more courageous and more fierce at opposing censorship in any form than the dozens of librarians I have personally known, and the dozens of others whose stalwart defense of freedom of speech and the press I have read about.

Librarians resist book banning to their last breath, facing down prudish preachers, moronic mayors and pious principals. They have gone to jail rather than violate the privacy of their patrons, defying the contempt of fascist pig judges. Book banners, watch out! You might as well be poking a tiger with a stick while you’re both inside the cage.

The American Library Association sponsors Banned Books Week (Sept. 25 through Oct. 2, 2010) and encourages everyone to read anything on the ever-growing list of books that freedom haters have requested or demanded be banned, but in most cases have never been removed from the shelves of public libraries. Each year they feature a new set of favorite targets of self-appointed thought police, and Huck Finn is often on that list.

Long live liberty! Long live librarians!

Thanks, Tizzle! That looks like a great read. 🙂

I took a class this year called Curmudgeons (we read Twain, Vonnegut, Bierce and HL Mencken), and Twain would not have been – Twain WAS. He kept it to himself because he didn’t like to upset his wife.

You should read Letters From The Earth! It was published posthumously, but it’s really very interesting.

You could also read The Mysterious Stranger (I think that’s what it’s called) but it’s a sympathetic view of Satan (If I recall correctly)… [shrug] Twain was an interesting man.

I’ll look forward to reading that.

I remember reading “Letters from the Earth” for personal pleasure back in High School.

I’m about to leave with the family for a long car trip for our summer vacation and guess what I will be listening to on the car-drive? Free Twain audio books. If you have an iPhone/iPod/iPad, you can buy a cheap audio book app ($2) that has access to thousands of free audio books (all from about 100 years ago or older) including most of the Twain collection. They are free because these books are now in the public domain and volunteers have read them aloud. So if you are diving, doing house work, or just prefer to hear a book every now and then, you can hear authors like Twain for free. You won’t be able to get anything current, though, for free. There is probably something equivalent with other smart-phones/PDAs besides the apple product line.

Hitch:

I have used the fact that Twain was a brilliant atheistic polemicist in many a debate that claims that the “rudeness” is new.

Hitch, let’s not sweep under the rug the fact that atheists sometimes have behaved badly, including some of our present-day big names. There is a big difference between pointing out the hypocrisy of banning Huck Finn and not the Bible and, oh, aiming a thinly-veiled argumentum ad Naziium at people like Eugenie Scott and Ken Miller.

My wife is a high school English teacher, so I think our view is worth something: “Huckleberry Finn” routinely draws objections, but modern students object primarily to Huck’s frequent use of the N-word.
School administrators, being literal-minded people, to put it kindly, seem to think that Huck Finn is a children’s book, since the protagonist is young.
If you’ve read it, it is clearly social and polical satire aimed at adult readers. It is, arguably, the Great American Novel, but it is ridiculous to expect any but the brightest high school student to “get it.” It should be saved for college.

Greg: “Dawkin’s quoted argument, for example, isn’t anything near the lines of ‘Hitler/Nazis did this too therefore it is wrong’.”

And Orac never said it was. Rather, he said this:

Whom are these “Neville Chamberlain” evolutionists ‘appeasing,’ in Moran’s view? Theistic evolutionists and creationists, of course! Religionists! Therefore, whether he realizes he’s doing it or not, Moran is implicitly likening ‘intelligent design’ creationists and theistic evolutionists to Hitler and explicitly likening the ‘Neville Chamberlain school of evolutionists’ who don’t criticize whom he thinks they should criticize the way he thinks they should be criticized as moral cowards who are afraid to stand up to a Hitler-like menace. Indeed, argumentum ad Naziium a very important secondary aspect of the Neville Chamberlain gambit. Why do you think the neocons who wanted to invade Iraq used to like to play the Neville Chamberlain gambit so much against opponents of the war with regards to Saddam Hussein? In Moran’s hands, it is a ridiculously overblown Hitler analogy, but cleverly concealed just under the surface, so that it is not nearly as obvious as the crude Hitler analogies used by, for example, Michael Ruse or D. James Kennedy, but just obvious enough that people link the common enemy being “appeased” with Hitler at least subconsciously.

(Yes, Orac is referring to Larry Moran in this paragraph rather than Dawkins, but he points out that Moran got the argument from Dawkins, and the underlying folly of it is the same for both.)

Greg: “the argument ad Naziium is “Hitler/Nazis did X therefore X is bad”…”

The “argument ad Naziium” isn’t as narrow as you suggest, but rather is about overblown comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis in general.

Greg: “Orac was saying it was.”

What Orac said was quoted above. The contrast between what he said and what you claimed he said should be evident.

Greg: “An analogy with/reference to Hitler (or Stalin, or Genghis Khan, or the Pope) is only bad in the same way any analogy or reference is bad.”

True. Comparing, say, Obama to Hitler (as some Tea Partiers have done) is indeed bad in the same way any analogy or reference is bad. But then, so is a comparison of theistic evolutionists to Hitler–and that’s what Dawkins did.

The “argument ad Naziium” isn’t as narrow as you suggest, but rather is about overblown comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis in general.

Then I suggest you check the link that was supplied in the article you directed me to. (I checked it to make sure my understanding of the fallacy was correct.)

To be brutally honest, it couldn’t be considered a logical fallacy if it was something as loose as ‘overblown comparisons’. An overblown comparison, after all, is not a logical error.

What Orac said was quoted above. The contrast between what he said and what you claimed he said should be evident.

I have double checked it, and it certainly is not evident. Bear in mind that I was also using your own link between Moran and Dawkins.

(Yes, Orac is referring to Larry Moran in this paragraph rather than Dawkins, but he points out that Moran got the argument from Dawkins, and the underlying folly of it is the same for both.)

I suspect the problem, here, however, is the point addressed at the start of this post. (About the definition of argumentum ad Naziium.)

True. Comparing, say, Obama to Hitler (as some Tea Partiers have done) is indeed bad in the same way any analogy or reference is bad. But then, so is a comparison of theistic evolutionists to Hitler–and that’s what Dawkins did.

No, he didn’t. Perhaps you ought to reread what he actually did say.

For the uninitiated J. J. Ramsey stalks me on an old topic. There is extra context that you guys don’t get. To understand this you’d have to read a number of blogs.

But the quick summary:

Basically he promotes the idea that the new atheists brought it upon themselves that they are negatively stereotyped. You should consider his remarks in that context.

I do not expect him to be accessible to argument. He apologizes sexism against women and stereotyping of atheists and has over years of arguing never moved to an empathic position.

I would basically recommend to ignore him. He’s here to troll me.

Hitch: “For the uninitiated J. J. Ramsey stalks me on an old topic.”

Um, no, Hitch. It’s about the topic, not about you, and you are certainly not the only person I’ve tangled with on the topic. You just happened to be the one who brought up “rudeness” this time around. It could have been, Aj, for example, who said what you said and I would have responded just the same.

Hitch: “I do not expect him to be accessible to argument. He apologizes sexism against women and stereotyping of atheists and has over years of arguing never moved to an empathic position.”

I’m tempted to accuse you of lying, but I’m afraid that you actually believe what you say. If I want to be cynical, I could accuse you of suggesting that it is perfectly acceptable to fabricate or confabulate claims of a “chorus that cheered and jeered,” but not to point out that it is a fabrication, or that it is okay to quote-mine someone to give the misleading impression that someone is agreeing that someone else is a “tw*t” instead of contradicting it. If you want to spout further falsehoods, I suggest you do it somewhere else.

Back to Hitch’s original comment on rudeness:

I have used the fact that Twain was a brilliant atheistic polemicist in many a debate that claims that the “rudeness” is new. Not at all, outspoken atheism is as old as people not being afraid to say what they think.

As long as we’re in the minority, atheists will always be considered rude. This made me think of the old story “The Emperor’s New Clothes”, often referenced by atheists. Reading more about it, I had forgotten that the tailors of the “new clothes” told people that only the unfit or stupid would be unable to see them. I always assumed the people in the story were silent because they didn’t want to appear rude or disagree with the Emperor, that it was all peer pressure.

According to Wikipedia, Hans Christian Anderson added the kid pointing out the emperor was nude at the very last minute, while the story was at the printers; it was based on his own childhood experience.

In 1872, he recalled standing in a crowd with his mother waiting to see King Frederick VI. When the king made his appearance, Andersen cried out, “Oh, he’s nothing more than a human being!” His mother tried to silence him by crying, “Have you gone mad, child?”

No doubt his mother thought he was being rude.

He died in 1910. You can do the math.

ummm… ok … 1910 minus 2010 equals … negative 100 … so the book should have been published in 1810?

that can’t be right

I believe Mr. Twain demitted from Freemasonry.