Tyler

If god had a plan, and his plan was to make us so terrible…shouldn’t he be apologizing to us?

I’M SO CONFUSED.
Sarah

“God’s plan” is one of the worst excuses in the history of lame excuses.
beadknitter

Wow. I can’t believe I used to believe that crap. How horrible to live with that.
Dan W

I’m glad I don’t believe that crap. I’ve never liked the idea of original sin. Why should anyone be responsible for the bad things their ancestors may have done? I’m not my ancestors. It’s a ridiculous idea.
ungullible

Was that a parody or the real thing? That it is hard to tell… is telling.
Nakor

@ungullible: Parody; the channel name is TheThinkingAtheist. Actually everyone should check out some of their other vids on that channel, a lot of them are quite amusing!

TheThinkingAtheist channel
hoverfrog

Those poor Christian babies. Better put them out of their misery while they’re still ~~fresh~~ I mean innocent.
tim

But according to Christians no baby is ever innocent.
ungullible

@Nakor – yes, I saw that. But watching the embedded version (which hides the channel name), I honestly couldn’t tell. Which I think makes it even better.

BTW – isn’t “ThinkingAtheist” redundant? 😉
bluezinnia

Sorry, that was so disgusting I couldn’t watch the entire video. Really turned the stomach.
Trace

“Better put them out of their misery while they’re still fresh I mean innocent.”

😉 .
Tucker

When my son was born, my mother in law bought him a children’s bible that describes the crucifixion of Jesus and how we are wretched beings who don’t even deserve the forgiveness we ask for. I quite nearly vomited. Had she actually been present when she gave it to me, I might have thrown it at her head. Instead, I just threw it in the trash.
OverlapingMagisteria

How much you wanna bet that if you edit out the credits that say “ThinkingAtheist” this could easily make the rounds through the fudies inboxes as a legit video? Perhaps sent to new parents with the best of intentions…
Robert

This video is a gross misstatement of the Christian faith.
Ottawaanon

@Robert
Mind sharing with the rest of the class which parts of the video you found to be in error?
JohnFrost

Really Robert? Because a lot of us, myself included, grew up in the Christian faith, and this sounds spot-on, to me.
NorDog

“Really Robert? Because a lot of us, myself included, grew up in the Christian faith, and this sounds spot-on, to me.”

The deeper one goes into the protestant world, the more likely one is to encounter gross mistatements of Christian doctrine.

Additionally, probably the worst place to learn the Catholic faith is in a Catholic school.

One error in the vid concerns Original Sin. “O.S.” does not communicate actual sin or guilt upon the newborn.
Robert

Here is where it goes horribly wrong-

1. The mainstream Christian faith doesn’t teach that you are worthless. In Romans, it is taught that we are God’s masterpieces. Throughout the Bible there are countless verses on how much God loves us.

2. Mainstream Christian faith does teach that to be saved you are to repent of your own sins, not the sins of others who lived before you.

3. The mainstream Christian faith does not teach that you are to tell God you are sorry for murdering his son Jesus. Jesus’ death was an act of grace by God.

4. The Christian faith doesn’t teach that God hasn’t revealed himself to all people. In fact, it is just the opposite. This comment is simply an opinion by the producers of the video.

5. Mainstream Christian faith does not teach that you earn heaven by fulfilling the great commission or that you can earn it at all through any acts. We are saved by grace through faith.

Alot of this appears to be an attack on Jehovah Witnesses, but not mainstream Christianity.
bluezinnia

Robert, get thee to any Southern Baptist Church, Bible Study Fellowship, or church based on Calvinist/Lutheran doctrine.
(With apologies to Shakespeare.)
SickoftheUS

On top of the religious parody, the video was so full of breeder-licious assumptions (“and someday your children will tell their children…”, etc). It would have been even more potent if it also parodied in the same straight-faced way the bizarre, unexamined beliefs that a huge majority of people have about breeding in this unsustainable world.
Robert

Bluezinnia,,What’s funny is that I was raised in a Lutheran church, my dad is a southern baptist preacher, I went to a Baptist College, was confirmed in the Catholic church at one point and now attend a bible church. I have pretty much explored all sides.
marisateika

@Robert,

Unfortunately I don’t have sound on my work computer so I can’t attest to what is said in the video. However, having served my time in Lutheran, Catholic and Baptist churches I will say that your objections to the video are debatable from individual church to individual church.

Additionally, though it may say in Romans and “throughout the Bible” that people are “are God’s masterpieces” — most still require baptism of babies. Original sin and all that jazz. Additionally, you’re just confirming that various faiths (and individual sects or churches of those faiths) do little more than cherry pick their favorite parts of the Bible and believe only those parts.
Hybrid

1. The mainstream Christian faith doesn’t teach that you are worthless. In Romans, it is taught that we are God’s masterpieces. Throughout the Bible there are countless verses on how much God loves us.”

Ephesians 2:3 – “Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath”
Genesis 8:21 – “Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though [a] every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood.”

“God’s word” tells us that we’re utterly corrupt, cursed creatures from day one. Corrupt by nature, all of our inclinations are evil. Not one of us is good. Lucky for us, GOD will see past our nature if we just LOVE him and tell him how sorry we are for being the things that he created and cursed. Battered wife syndrome, anyone?

3. The mainstream Christian faith does not teach that you are to tell God you are sorry for murdering his son Jesus. Jesus’ death was an act of grace by God.

I can just hear the words now…

“Baby, you know how much I love you, but I should kill you for not doing everything I say and for being what you are by nature. Lucky for you I tortured and murdered my own innocent son in place of you because I love you so much. You wouldn’t respect me if I just forgave you, after all… and somebody or something needs to DIE when MY WORD isn’t respected. It was my mercy that kept me from murdering you this time, so just accept how evil and beneath me you are, and worship me for all of eternity, and things will be fine. If you don’t, of course, I’m going to torture you forever in my custom built basement torture dungeon. Isn’t my love and mercy without bounds? Can’t you see how much I’ve given up for you?”
LeAnne

@Tim

“But according to Christians no baby is ever innocent.”

Hahahahaha, touche!
NorDog

Actually, according to Christianity, every baby is born innocent.
Christine

Now, now. No need to argue. Hard-core Christianity teaches BOTH that humans are God’s masterpiece, so wonderful and individually crafted by Him and special to his heart that he willingly sacrificed Himself/His son to save them AND that humans are worthless sinners who deserve to have the flesh eternally burned from their bodies again and again. Remember, consistency is not their strong suit.
Hybrid

Now, now. No need to argue. Hard-core Christianity teaches BOTH that humans are God’s masterpiece, so wonderful and individually crafted by Him and special to his heart that he willingly sacrificed Himself/His son to save them AND that humans are worthless sinners who deserve to have the flesh eternally burned from their bodies again and again. Remember, consistency is not their strong suit.

Beautiful! It takes a true Christian to believe such things. You know you’ve got it all worked out when it makes perfect sense.
Robert

Christine, it is actually consistent when you understand grace.

Ephesians 2:2- We were living in our sinful ways and gratifying our sinful natures

The quote from Genesis is after Noah built an alter to God following the flood. Far cry from what you are implying.

This video and your comments are a distortion of the doctrine of original sin. God did not create us to be sinners.
Hybrid

This video and your comments are a distortion of the doctrine of original sin. God did not create us to be sinners.

Robert, did God know that his creations were going to sin when he was in the process of creating them?
Dave Barry

God did know that sin would emerge in His creation – but loved us so much that He made us anyways. So much that He’d sacrifice so much no matter how evil any of us turned out to be. And no, this short is a distortion in that we are not born guilty and requiring to some day apologize for others’ misdeeds – we are all God’s children and loved unconditionally by Him. Religeon also distorts the truth – but that doesn’t make God fiction. You may not believe in Him/Her, that’s okay, they (God) can handle your doubt and judgement, just as He forgives those who distort His truth in His name. God’s love is bigger than all that – Her truth is unphased by any level of sarcasm (as thickly delivered here). He/She still loves us all – no matter what.
Everyday Atheist

Catholicism very distinctly teaches that children are born with original sin. They have to be baptized as babies because they are essentially born “guilty.” Although it’s been abandoned now (which is telling in itself), the whole idea of Purgatory was ~~revealed by god~~ invented because people couldn’t deal with the thought that babies who died before baptism were sent to hell. Many Protestants take a different tack, saying babies are innocent, but you have to repent as soon as you’re capable of understanding the concept of sin as a child, or off to the fire you go.

As the parent of a young child, it nearly made me cry to think that ideas very close to this (or for many denominations, exactly like this) are being taught to little kids. Anyone ever tries to push that on my kid, and they’ll learn the “fear of god” in a different manner.
Everyday Atheist

@ Dave Barry

God did know that sin would emerge in His creation – but loved us so much that He made us anyways. So much that He’d sacrifice so much no matter how evil any of us turned out to be.

He loved us, who did not yet exist, so much that he made us anyway, knowing that we’d sin? And he loved us so much he went ahead and made hell, knowing that huge numbers of us, whom he loved so well, would end up sent there to be tortured forever? And he sacrificed by “dying” for three days (in the span of infinity), to satisfy his own need for blood justice, which he knew he’d need to do before he made us, whom he loved so much already? I could keep going, but I’m pretty sure I’m spiraling into a woo singularity, and I can’t afford to get caught and be late for dinner.
Robert

Hybrid,

If you want to get into a sincere discussion of freewill I will be happy to do so. But the short answer to your question is, to my belief, yes.
Hybrid

Robert,

In a previous life I’d enjoy the discussion, but I’ve found such thoughts to be pointless exercises until the character discussed is demonstrated to be someone/something that actually exists, which is something no theist can ever seem to manage. Until then like any other character our formidable imaginations can concoct God can be, do, and think anything we wish to imagine.

Thanks though!
marisateika

God did know that sin would emerge in His creation – but loved us so much that He made us anyways.

While I think most of us appreciate different viewpoints, you might want to research around a little (even on this very site) before posting certain things.

You’re essentially positing that god created man, he created sin, and he created man to sin…. and punishes man for doing that which he created man to do.

Which would make him a jerk, were I to believe he existed.
NorDog

“Catholicism very distinctly teaches that children are born with original sin. They have to be baptized as babies because they are essentially born “guilty.””

The Church does not teach that we are born guilty.
Don

Aside from the nitpicking on small details, if they still claim that there is some magical “god”, who answers the wishes that are sent to him, telepathically…… then I’ve heard all I need to hear to form my point of view. Let’s not ignore the elephant in the room….lmao! Of course there’s hundreds of other gems in there, if you open to any page….. magic, “miracles, talking shrubbery, various people who live several hundred years, seas that split in half, a big boat full of animals from all over the world (which somehow all showed up for boarding), magic births, dead people coming back (zombies?), slight of hand (water into wine, bread, fish…etc.). Seriously? Maybe this stuff will fade away, now that they’ve stopped making lead paint.
Christine

NorDog, unless you are splitting hairs with the terms “guilty” and “sin,” you are clearly wrong. The Vatican web site says,

Therefore original sin is transmitted by way of natural generation. This conviction of the Church is indicated also by the practice of infant baptism, to which the conciliar decree refers. Newborn infants are incapable of committing personal sin, yet in accordance with the Church’s centuries-old tradition, they are baptized shortly after birth for the remission of sin. The decree states: “They are truly baptized for the remission of sin, so that what they contracted in generation may be cleansed by regeneration” (DS 1514).

– http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19861001en.html
Caroline

It’s a ridiculous idea.
I think kid is very cute.
Nordog

Original sin is not something of which one is guilty.
Izzy

My understanding was that God was all knowing… wouldn’t he have known we were gonna screw up? Maybe my young mind is missing something idk… something about human nature rings a bell. But i think religously you would call this making the right choices right? but how could someone (Eve in this case) with out knowledge be able to make a choice when they dont know anything else in this case what caused eating the forbidden fruit. So in “theory” wasn’t Adam and Eve as innocent as a child if they never knew anything else? if im not mistaken i am correct on the fact that Adam and Eve is where orignal sin came from… o.O
Matthias

The problems begin at the first. If God was all-knowing and all-powerful…why create something that He knew would come to be sinful and punish it for its sins? Self-fulfilling or intentional? Where is the line between? I mean, where do you draw the line between He made us this way and free will? If you design something to fail, why punish it when it fails? Psychotic creator? Sounds all too HUMAN to me…

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