If Christians Would Listen, What Would You Say to Them?

Do you think Christians have more success reaching out to others because they’re willing to send their book to foreign countries, while Atheists will only send books to America?

I want to say that I’d beg them to read Sartre… Honestly, if I could be certain they were paying attention, I’d want to spend a few minutes talking about Bad Faith. Of course, that’s not a conversation I’d only want to have with Christians.

I can’t really think of anything I’d want to say that wouldn’t have a potentially negative outcome. I mean, I can’t dictate to someone else what they should think the criteria for truth is, and I can’t honestly hope to convince someone who doesn’t already value logic and truth to acquire those values. But I do think that hypocrisy, and avoiding hypocrisy, is a value which anyone who thinks about it would share.

So, if I could talk to any one Christian, or Christians in general, if I could tell them something I knew they’d really listen to and seriously consider, I’d want to take the time to impress upon them their own personal responsibility for their own beliefs, and their individual power and responsibility not to be hypocritical. In some cases, I think it would probably result in polarizing them all the way to the Fred Phelps end of the spectrum. But for the most part, I think if they took the time to seriously consider everything, and I mean everything, they believe, in every aspect of their life, and made an effort to reconcile it, they’d find their faith unlivable.

Banana.

I know about your religion, and I have no interest in joining. Please stop trying to convert me, especially since you act like nobody’s tried that before. I’ve heard all your arguments before, and I’m just not interested. Can’t you talk about something – anything – else?

Banana!

If they would listen I would tell them that I do not need a spiritual being to cling to and that is ok. No seriously, praying for me kind of offends me in that the christian is assuming I am not perfect without his/her specific beliefs in my life. I probably would go on further and let the christian know that many of their modern beliefs are not very Christ like, and end by asking them to hypothetically put themselves in my shoes.

While all in good I am sure they would just come back at me with something as idiotic as Ray Comfort and his banana.

I don’t hate god, I just don’t believe a god exists. To me there is no evidence for a god. I believe the world is a beautiful place, and I don’t need a god to see that.

Also, I have been religious before. I understand how powerful religion and the feeling of god can be, but I need real explanations that science can provide me. Just telling me to believe in god, have faith, or the bible says so just won’t cut it in my book.

I will not try to convince you to become an atheist, so I would appreciate you not trying to convert me to your religion.

Banana!

Evolution never happened. Its just not logical to assume that billions of random mutations occurring over a span of millions of years in an environment of reproductive competition would produce sentient beings. Yes, biological evolution has been proven to occur many times over on a small scale (after all, each year there is a new flu virus) and all available evidence points towards a Darwinian explanation of human existence. However, it is just more logical to assume that the entire universe and all life contained therein was created by an omnipresent, all powerful entity in 6 days and also that He* hid dinosaur bones underground in order to test our faith in his existence. THINK!

*Yes, God is in fact male….I’ve seen his penis.

Banana

This comment isn’t intended to be submitted for competition, just food for thought.

Christians maintain that God created the heavens and Earth in 6 days, and then set aside the 7th day to rest.

Why would God use an earthly measurement of time to measure how long it took him to create the Earth???

Apple

I would tell them that I don’t think they are bad people. I think they have been brainwashed into believing something that makes them intolerant, and hateful…yet they strive to be the opposite. I think they are good people who have been given the wrong set of rules for living a moral life. They are forced to be hateful because they have been brainwashed, and although I believe they should read our arguments and see the evidence for themselves, I understand how doing so is seen as a rejection of themselves. I have a very close Christian friend who refuses to talk to me about her faith, but I do not blame her for being so judgmental towards others. She thinks I feel differently, and feels that I am the one always judging her. Unfortunately, she won’t let me tell her, or explain to her, that I feel the exact opposite. She is a good person, trapped in a Religion that takes advantage of her good intentions.

Banana!

This is a tough one. I think we spend so much time on the defensive that this is a very foreign idea–reversing roles and thinking they might listen to us.

I wouldn’t try (as they do) to convert anyone. I would simply ask them to be more like their Christ.

As Gandhi said, “I like your Christ but I do not like your Christians because they are not like your Christ.”

Whether he existed or not, his ideas about forgiveness, judgement, turning the other cheek, and loving your neighbor as yourself are not things I see in todays Christian faiths.

I would simply ask them, if nothing else, to try a little harder.

Banana

I would want, somehow, to express the sheer beauty of a naturalistic view of the world- to show them what they’re missing when they limit their understanding of the whole wide universe to the Bible.

Banana… mmm.

I would say,

Open your mind and please read your bible as though you don’t know it’s source. If you can do that we can discuss it, if you can’t then we need to move to another subject.

I would ask (and have asked): Since it is generally the position of Christians that moral behavior is impossible without belief in your particular God, what would happen if you were to lose your faith?
Would you immediately become a dangerous armed robber, rapist, murderer and child molester? Are you just itching to do those things, but your Christianity is holding you back?

I know this will be difficult for you. But I want you to imagine there is no God. That the universe and life evolved through processes that you do not understand. That humans invented God because of a projection of a transcendant imagination. Even if you do not understand all that, please accept as an experiment that there is no God. And that all the paraphenalia and trappings and ritual and effort gone into the worship of gods throughout history have been fun but pointless. That there is no one and no thing in the sky. No ghosts, no angels, no after death life, no talking to the dead, no souls, no hell, no heaven, no virgins, no telepathy, no premonitions, no healers, no chakras, no amethyst charms, no fairies, no witches. All of it, all of this is made up by people in a search for meaning from the patterns that the mind generates to help some genes reproduce. That is reality. Now, go forth and prosper.
Banana

Wow, this is tough. I think I would just beg them to realize the line between being faithful to their religion and not stepping on my lack thereof–just ask them to please realize we can cohabitate peacefully and even cooperate on important things if they don’t try to force everyone around them to obey the parts of their behavioral code that come solely from the Bible.

Banana. (I see what you did thar.)

If I were to cite the horrible things done in the name of Christianity, you might tell me you weren’t that kind of Christian.

Prove it every day.

Banana.

Do you think Christians have more success reaching out to others because they’re willing to send their book to foreign countries, while Atheists will only send books to America?

Ender’s comment wins the internet!!!

Banana cream pie with coffee afterwards

As if there was no Atheists and Atheist books in other countries and everybody reads amd wrotes in English…

But any opportunity to make a cheap point really.

I would tell them that they should listen more and convince less and that just because someone doesn’t believe what they believe doesnt mean that person is ignorant or angry or abused or anything but that they believe differing things. I go to a Jesuit University and the idea that at some point there must have been this life changing event that made me not be a christian is overwhelming and a little insulting. Also, i would tell them that condemning my friends or family is not a good way to demonstrate what they believe in.

Also. banana. 🙂

Hello, I’m an atheist. I still know the difference between right and wrong, good and bad. I donate and help people, and I don’t do it to build my magical castle in the sky for when I die. I do it because it’s the right thing to do. I believe I won’t go to another magical place of fire when I die, I will go to the same place I was before I was born. I didn’t fear that time before my birth, it was timeless and painless. How was your time before your birth? Scary? No. Being told I was going to a place that only has good in it would strip me of parts of my personality and I wouldn’t be me anymore. If you preach tolerance, you should practice it. Thank you for your time.
Banana

First I’d like to ask my mother why she hates me so much and yet my christian sister gets all the love. I don’t understand how a mother can do that.

Second: why are shellfish OK to eat and yet homosexuals are so terrible?

Banana.

I would ask them to reflect more upon themselves and their actions. Even if you do think homosexuality is wrong, does that mean that you can behave in whatever manner you want? Isn’t Christianity supposed to be about loving everybody, including your enemies?

I would tell them that atheists are not all either
1. people who have not been properly introduced to religion or
2. people who are mad at God or at believers in God.

Some atheists fit these descriptions but I would argue that the real cause of atheism is that our minds are wired such that we subconsciously withhold belief in things (in this case religious claims) without sufficient evidence. We don’t consider bible quoting or arguments from authority as evidence. All the techniques of the evangelist are really only designed to reach those predisposed to be religious.

I would also add that even if there was a God, why would he make certain people with minds predisposed to withhold belief without evidence and then condemn those people to everlasting torture after death? The whole notion is ridiculous. Religion is (believer) man-made.

Banana

“Please don’t recite apologetics at me with logical reasons why your god must exist. Logic only works when your initial premises are sound, and you have failed to establish that. No amount of argument from you is going to persuade me that your god exists. Don’t quote your bible at me either. I’m interested in evidence based in reality. If you have any, I’m listening.”

I can haz banana?

I know this will be difficult for you. But I want you to imagine there is no God. That the universe and life evolved through processes that you do not understand. That humans invented God because of a projection of a transcendant imagination. Even if you do not understand all that, please accept as an experiment that there is no God. And that all the paraphenalia and trappings and ritual and effort gone into the worship of gods throughout history have been fun but pointless. That there is no one and no thing in the sky. No ghosts, no angels, no after death life, no talking to the dead, no souls, no hell, no heaven, no virgins, no telepathy, no premonitions, no healers, no chakras, no amethyst charms, no fairies, no witches. All of it, all of this is made up by people in a search for meaning from the patterns that the mind generates to help some genes reproduce. That is reality.
Banana

I understand your religion, I just don’t subscribe to it – and I’m okay with agreeing to disagree on this. I could be wrong. So could you. Neither of us is going to know who is “right” in her worldview until we’re dead, so there’s really not a lot of sense in trying to convert me or vice versa – I assume you came to your beliefs through reflection on what you believe about the world, the same way I did. I concluded there is no god, and you concluded that there is a Christian God (well, trinity, but let’s not get into that). I would really appreciate it if you would respect that my beliefs are not about hopelessness, or being “angry” at religion, or anything more complex than simply looking at the world and saying, “I don’t think this was created, and I don’t think that there is a god.” You do. That’s okay. But please don’t conflate atheism with anti-theism (eh, I kind of don’t care what anyone else believes), and please don’t presume that if you just tell me this one more thing about Christianity, I’ll join your religion. I know what Christianity proposes. I just don’t believe it.

Banana.

Asking questions and searching for answers is not a bad thing. It is not a sign of a lack of faith to fact check your pastor/spiritual-leader. They are human too. They make mistakes just like the rest of us. Ask questions and ask those questions of multiple sources. Talk to people. Get many different answers and evaluate them. You have a brain, whether you believe God gave it to you or it evolved from something simpler, so make use of it rather than being spoon fed.

Banana

Interesting project. Hopefully is teaches a few of them how ridiculous they are. I WANT a banana but I’m being discriminated against cus I’m Canadian. Have I mentioned I’m in law?? j/k! I’d be interested to see a follow up project showing the reactions of Christians.

Read the Bible. Read it from front to back, and if you don’t understand something, try to find an explanation for it. Don’t gloss over the parts that you don’t feel comfortable with, or parts that you’ve never heard a sermon on. Read it all, and then come back to the table. I’ll be here, waiting. I won’t bite, and if I do, I’ve had my shots. But seriously, I’m a human being just like you, and I’m probably not the only atheist you know. There are probably a few in your church, and there may even be an atheist behind your pulpit. We’re everywhere, and we’re growing and coming out, so you need to come to the table and work out how we’re going to get along in this new century, or you’re going to find yourselves more and more marginalized as science and reason explain more and more about who we are and where we came from.

Oh, and please tell that goofball Ray Comfort to shut up about the…

Banana

I would tell them that it gets really annoying when they play ‘victim’. It’s offensive when the majority claim oppression. The non-Christians aren’t out to get them, aren’t waging a war on Christmas, aren’t trying to take away their rights and definitely not trying to eat their babies.

I’d ask them about all the hypocrisy I see in their religion. Why it’s okay to bash gays while chomping down on shellfish at their local Red Lobster. Why they continue to buy pagan trees to put up at Christmas, when it plainly says in Jeremiah that it’s not okay. Why abortions are so bad when their god kills babies at will…

I want to tell them that Atheists come from all walks of life and not all of us were born into freethinking families. Some of us were once Christian too. And often it wasn’t a bad preacher or a want to be sinful that drove us away from church, we just started putting the pieces together and found out we didn’t believe.

I’d also want to tell them that I love the freedom they have to believe in whatever they want. The freedom to go to church, to have personal prayer, to read and study the Bible. Many of the people I love dearly are Christian or Mormon. It would kill me to see them lose their rights. The same way it devastates me to see my gay friends denied their rights. How it pains me that ‘god’ is on my American money. The same frustration I get when I find out there are laws that prevent Atheists from holding government positions.

I’d ask them why we can’t all sit down and take a moment to make everything fair for everyone. Why some of them fight so hard to make sure their personal beliefs are forced upon everyone else. Why some Christians can’t see how unfair that is in a country that was supposed to be based on freedom and justice.

I guess the questions I asked are questions I would want them to ask themselves… I was once a believer of sorts (Mormons aren’t exactly Christian)and I know the only reason I was so judgmental was because I was raised to be.

I would want to tell them that I am a good person too. That I am a mother and a loyal wife. That my children love Christmas and Eostre. All that separates us is a simple belief in whether there is a god or not. And that it’s a real pity that belief becomes a road block in building friendships. I don’t need to be saved from anything, I am not broken or terribly bitter. I actually go to church (not Christian church) and I love to bake, sew, crochet, garden and make taffy. I donate blood every 56 days and I am on the National Bone Marrow registry.

I’d want to tell them that if they took a second to really look at the non-believing community around them, that they would see we actually share more similarities than we do differences.

(Banana)

I’d like to tell Christians – to beg them, actually – to stop indoctrinating their children. It’s one thing to teach them about what you believe, but teaching it as *fact* the way they’re taught math and history and that hot stoves are bad to touch is taking advantage of growing people at their most trusting, vulnerable time, when they’ll believe anything from their parents. If you think your religion is strong enough to stand up to scrutiny, then let your children scrutinize it and decide for themselves when they’re older – don’t force it upon them.

(banana)

Talk to me about your religion and your beliefs. I’ll gladly engage in civil conversations with you about what I think.

If you get overly emotional and try to steamroll me then the conversation is over.

If you say there’s no difference between anecdote and proof then the conversation is over.

I plan on using any conversation we have as a way to improve my thinking. If you aren’t doing the same then this will likely be our last conversation.

Banana

“Christianity has an image problem.”

They lost me – and the book Unchristian lost me as well – with this faulty assessment of the problem.

It’s not an image problem. It’s a truth and accuracy problem.

I’d explain to them that all the lawsuits brought against the government for prayer in schools, pledge of allegiance, in god we trust and so on, have nothing to do with restricting the rights religious citizens. I’d also try to explain the importance of church state separation.

Hi. I think you should ask yourself why you take the Bible quite as seriously as you do, and yet disregard all the other holy books in the world. I suspect that there are already some parts that you don’t take literally — for example, I don’t think you want to execute people who work on Sunday. Now, think about this. If there are some things in the Bible that you don’t take seriously, can you really think that “It’s in the Bible” is a good enough reason to believe anything else? I’m not asking you to throw out the entire book, but to keep using your own judgment, as you’ve already done in some parts, to evaluate the rest of it. If you do that, I suspect you’ll come to agree with me that, if God is fundamentally good, he wouldn’t send anybody to any place like Hell unless they really deserved it — and even then I doubt a good God could justify sustaining that torture for eternity. Anyway, would you like something to eat? Here, have a
banana.

This is a comment more for the authors if they are reading this post. I think the concept of what the authors have done here is great. I have a long list of books I want to read that I haven’t gotten to, so I honestly will probably never have time to read this book. However, I would love to see the DVD of the interviews if it were ever made available by itself.

(no banana :D)

If I thought Christians would listen, I would tell them all about:

1) The cognitive biases that psychologists have discovered and researched, and give examples of the commission of these biased thought processes in theistic frameworks;

2) what evidence is in scientific parlance, and why we should proportion our beliefs to the same;

3) that I deem it immoral to push an ideology on people based on undemonstrable propositions, which their positions tend to be;

4) the history of the documents in the Bible and why it should be given no more regard than other sets of documents written by ancient peoples;

5) why theism is nonsensical and that, even if some god were real, that wouldn’t mean we should worship and obey it;

6) the harms that theisms have committed and continue to commit;

7) the virtues of having a scientific mindset;

8 ) that people can live fulfilling lives without following a religion or believing in the supernatural.

Strangely, I find myself hungering for something right now… maybe a

Banana

Don’t think that my rejection of religion is specific to *your* religion, or should be seen as a rejection of you. You wouldn’t feel defensive about my presence or attitudes if I was raised in a different religion or with no religion. So please don’t feel threatened by me because I have left it.

You don’t have to respect my beliefs, you don’t have to respect the beliefs or lifestyle choices of the people I care about. But I expect you to treat me and the people I care about respectfully, as I do for you. You don’t have to respect my decision to not go to church, you don’t have to respect the sexual orientations of some of my friends, but don’t express that disrespect through your words, your actions, or your votes.

We are more than labels and categories of “atheist” or “gay.” We are diverse people with full and meaningful lives, rich emotions, and we cherish the same rights and dignities that you do.

When I’m with you I don’t see a Christian, I see a neighbor/friend/family. So when you’re with me please try to see something more than an atheist.

banana

I think i would like to know, who died and made their God any better than anyone else’s? It may sound childish, but I honestly want to know why they think their God is different from the Muslims or any other faith that is out there. True we may worship in different ways or use different names for God, but when it all comes down to it, He still is the Father of Abraham and Isaac and Jesus, and yes Muslims do believe in these men as well.

BANANA!!

I will do anything for a free book.

I would say something like this. I am assuming the Christian I was addressing was a protestant (I would have to change it for a Catholic).

Imagine that you had a Catholic friend, who regularly asked you to come to Catholic mass. This person kept telling you that your beliefs are wrong and that you will go to hell if you do not accept the teachings of the Roman church. They say you must learn the catechism or go to hell, or at least purgatory for a while.
Any discussions you have about why you are Protestant rather than Catholic are ignored as being anti-Catholic. Your arguments are dismissed out of hand as the words of an ignorant and lost fool who just wants to rebel against the “real” church.
“Why do you hate God’s chosen emissary to the world (the pope)?” they would say.
“Is it because you want to have abortions? Is it because you like the death penalty? Is it because you do not like to eat fish on Friday?”
You would show them the reasons you are not Catholic and reject the teachings of the Catholic church, but in response, all they say is “I will just pray to Saint Anthony that God will open your eyes.”
People would ask prominent Protestants to come on talk shows and discuss their beliefs, but the host, a Catholic, would belittle what you say and interrupt you while agreeing with everything Father Bob had to say.
Then the Catholics try to have nuns teach in the public schools and have Catholic prayers lead by these nuns before each class. They try to make sure that Catholic religious teachings are given the same treatment in classes as any other knowledge.
Also, this Catholic friend would keep going on about how the church is oppressed in America, even though they are the largest single denomination.
How would that make you feel? Would you feel as if this Catholic was ignoring you? Would you feel like this Catholic did not respect you, or your freedom to have your own beliefs? Would you feel this Catholic was not a terribly good friend? Would you feel this Catholic doesn’t really see you as a person?
Would you speak out by writing books or posting billboards (which invariably were vandalized)?
That is how many Atheists feel all the time, because many Christians do this to us all the time.

Banana

I would ask:

If your god is so loving and tolerant, and your Bible is so inerrant and timeless, then why is your religion always on the wrong side of big issues? You’ve used the Bible to justify slavery, segregation, discrimination against blacks, discrimination against women, discrimination against gays. You’ve made war, and tortured others, and fueled the Inquisition, and destroyed cultures with your “missionary” work. You close your eyes to progress and scientific evidence. You’ve wrecked families and ruined lives.

Yet you say you’re loving and tolerant? It sounds pretty hateful to me…

Banana.

It depends on what type of Christian I’m talking to, really.

Perhaps (in particular to those who try to evangelise):

“Are you willing to change your opinion on whether god exists or not? If not, what right have you to expect me to change mine by talking to you?”

Pineapple.

I would ask them to try to see where other people are coming from. I think a lot of the bigotry and hate come from prejudices that are already there. They just use the bible to justify them. At the same time they ignore what the bible says about say divorce because they don’t want to be bound by them. I think if they took an honest look at themselves and the bible some of this hatred might change.
Banana

I would apologize to them, friendly atheist I can be, but am not always. It would be nice to get some old friends back, before I alienated them with my earlier enthusiasm.

I would ask them what they wanted to discuss about their beleifs, and to ask them if they had any questions about their faith that they were interested in ahving answered by someone who didn’t share their beleifs.

If I thought a Christian would listen, I would tell them that the church’s negative judgmental behavior is responsible for a lot of pain and mental problems with young teenagers. Embrace differences that come with different people, and don’t force teenagers to have to closet themselves for fear of ostracism. You can preach without demonstrating bigotry and homophobic behaviors.

Banana

I would ask “Why would it be so bad to view the Bible as simply a book with tales about morals instead of the absolute ‘truth’?”

Banana

Is your faith really so weak that you have to actively try to conform the rest of the country’s beliefs and laws to yours, just so you can feel safe? How does an atheist billboard, an open and multicultural holiday display, and not allowing government sanctioned prayer challenge *your* personal beliefs?

Banana

Why must you hold onto beliefs that are verifiably false?

Banana!

I would ask:
If you could just imagine for a moment that there were no god, what horrible thing would you choose to do? And if you can’t see yourself doing it, why not?

That’s the thing I find most insulting about many Christians; that given no god, anyone would run riot in the streets.

Banana (even though I’m allergic. Hey! Why would god make me a banana and then not let me eat it?)

I would tell them that my lack of belief is in no way related to a lack of morality.

Banana.

I would ask them to please try and apply some empathy to their worldview. Initially I thought I would ask them to be open-minded, but I think being empathetic is more powerful. Making an honest and concerted attempt to place yourself in someone else’s shoes necessitates being open-minded. I would ask Christians who think homosexuality is a sin and actively work to keep gays second-class citizens to imagine how they would feel if they were denied rights based upon characteristics that are an inherent part of their existence. Or I might ask them to contemplate a society where explicitly non-religious messages were incorporated into pledges, songs, money and generally so ubiquitous that you couldn’t help but feel like an outsider or marginalized citizen. A lack of empathy is how some people find it so easy to back war, noiselessly hand over their civil rights and remain apathetic to any program that doesn’t directly benefit their narrow interests. I won’t say that a sudden influx of empathetic introspection will change hearts and minds, but any increase in tolerance it might promote would certainly be a welcome change from the closed loop of some Christians’ thought processes.

Banana

If I could talk about religion with my parents (specific Christians), i would explain to them that the reason we have such a distant relationship and the reason i feel more comfortable staying at my mother-in-laws when i’m in town, is all because of the Catholic way i was raised and the annoyance that my younger siblings are being raised the same. I would ask why they get so angry when i strike a debate, if they aren’t comfortable defending their beliefs then why do they still try to impose them onto me. I would tell them to stop thinking of me as ‘the bad kid’, i was only the bad kid when i was being forced to practice a religion i didn’t believe in twice a week. I was only rebellious because i KNEW i was a good kid and no one could see it, just because i had a different point of view.

If a Christian would listen I would ask them why they can’t see the beauty of the world for what it is. Why do they have to take a child playing in the sand and say it’s God in disguise….why do they have to take a beautiful sunset or rainbow and pretend it’s God saying hello? Why can’t things just BE.
My mom had this saying (that she thought was very clever) She came up with it after a trip to Colorado and it goes like this…:”Anyone who claims to be an atheist, has never been to the Rocky Mountains”
She sent e-mails with this saying and beautiful pictures of Colorado and the Mountains that WE climbed as a family. Some of the most beautiful pictures, taken by me. And i DON’T understand. I would try to explain to a Christian why i see more beauty in these things than they do. If their God is so mighty and powerful then what is surprising about mountains and canyons and never-ending fields? I look at these things and my mind races back millions and billions of years. I think about what used to be in the spot i’m standing on and how much the world had changed purely by chance. They world around me isn’t just a big art project designed by dad…it’s something greater than that,because it’s a mystery. And it’s so exciting to learn about what scientists have discovered about the world. I would ask a Christian why they are okay with a simple answer of God and why they don’t feel like they should still be searching for answers that might never go answered. I would ask a Christian, to look into the woods in my backyard and to imagine all those trees starting as nothing and imagine the animals that roamed around the same places that have been covered by streets now, millions of years ago. And i would tell them that i see these interesting and mysterious things and i question where they came from. I would explain that another mysterious and so obviously made up being couldn’t answer my questions. I would tell them that i’m content with not knowing, because if everything was meant to have an answer, we would live in a very boring place. I don’t want to live in that place, and that’s why i can’t and won’t follow Christianity or any other religion.

That was too long…

Banana?

I would start by asking them to read the bible, not just particular passages, but the whole book with an open mind. Then afterwards ask themselves,does this sound like the work of a loving god or a bronze age man. Then I would ask them why any loving god would make someone who was automatically marked by what religion they do or don’t practice for eternal suffering.

Banana

Here’s another one. More of a rant.

I’d ask them to stop addressing things outside of their religion in religious terms. I’m not a Christian. Stop treating the world and everyone in it like it’s your church. It’s just rude.

If you are not guilty of directly acting like that yourself, then please get your peers to stop. Also, stop giving money to groups that act like that. Till I see enough Christians stand up and confront this arrogance, I’m going to remain totally unimpressed with any assertions by Christians of having the moral high ground.

So, as I mentioned to the last two people who attempted to corner me and tell me about Jesus; Just stop. Please. I’m fed up being nice about this point.

If you won’t, and you won’t deal with your peers effectively, or you even actively support this aggressive attitude, then you can’t really blame us uppity atheists for making a fuss. Be impolite or even bigoted, support those who are, and expect a return on that investment.

Banana

Unfortunately of course “really listening” is a kind of utopia. A good one, but still. I’d pay money for people acquiring the ability to really listen.

Peach.

Oooh. I want this book. I know a bunch of people who want to understand my atheism but can’t stay quiet long enough to actually listen to me.

I’ve said a lot of things, and I’ll say a lot more. But the thing I’m aching to say now is this:

“How much more volunteer work do I have to do before you start considering the idea that atheists can be moral and altruistic?

“It’s not love of God that drives me to donate, rescue, and help out. It’s love of people, animals, the planet. Real things. I love tangible things and I want to save them – so that my son can experience them when he gets older, but also to save them for their own sake.

“I don’t expect thanks. Nobody expects a wild animal to thank them, not even an endangered one. I don’t expect you to put me on a pedestal as an extraordinarily generous person, because I’m aware that I don’t meet your standards of generosity. I don’t visit shut-ins like you do, and I don’t send thank-you notes, and I totally missed your last anniversary. But I do my own sort of giving, in my own little way.

“And when you stand right in front of me and tell me that all atheists are amoral and selfish, I’m going to remember you said that next time I get a call for a stranded whale.”

Banana. Seriously.

(I guess I needed to vent.)

allison tannery, what you describe is better than what is in the Bible. (ex: The nasty parts of John 3:16 ==> through ==> John 3:21.)

What I would tell them are a few lines of thought that I found quite interesting when I was peacefully and slowly shedding my Christianity:

One definition of the term “Christian” is this: Christ-like. Now, have you ever met a complete stranger who reminded you of another person? Sometimes it was just specific qualities. Sometimes the way they look at you. The way they hold themself. Or, perhaps, the way they laugh. Even if this stranger seems so familiar — so similar — to an old friend of yours, it is likely that those two people have never or will never meet. And yet they are so similar. In this way, I believe a person can be a Christian. Like Christ, but never knowing who he is. If this is possible, that a person being like Christ knows nothing of the man called Jesus, and yet the bible and most Christians would condemn this person for not professing a belief in Jesus, then what use is the Christian religion in defining the proper person. If a person can be Christ-like in all that they do, save for professing their belief in the Judeo-Christian God, what other requirement should there be for salvation?

On similar line of thought, if God is Love, then it is also true that every manifestation of Love is God manifesting simultaneously. And if that is true, then non-Christians are honoring God at all times that they express love, which does not require a belief in God at all. If non-theists can honor and do good in the eyes of God, then what other requirement should there be for salvation?

Given this basic reasoning, I find the case for professing a belief in and praising God to be unnecessary. In fact, it has been a hindering and inefficient aspect of society since inception. If all of the time spent focusing on God were instead spent focusing on people, we would be a lot further as a civilization.

Banana

@Pam
Who died and made their god better than anyone else’s?

Why Jesus, of course. Duh?

🙂

I would not try to offer any arguments for my position, but would simply ask them to humor me and ponder about a few things:

1) Why are you Christian (or any other religion)? Did you really get to choose your religion? How so? Did you get to shop around for other beliefs or adopted your parents’ (or your country’s, or your peers’) religion? Please humor me and omit Bible quotes, Christian doctrine, and subjective emotional experiences when pondering about these questions.

2) Where did the Bible come from? How it came about historically? Of all the sacred books that have existed, why is this the One?

3) Questions for more generic theists: If there’s a god, what makes you think you know its mind? If all religions reflect some of the truth about that god, why are all of them so contradictory? How do you know that the creator of the universe wants to be worshiped? How do you know that it cares about you? What is the difference between a universe allegedly created by an unknowable, unproven, mysterious god and a universe without one?

One…two…three…Banana!

I’d say, “What makes you think us, tiny specs of water-based carbon, in a miniscule solar system, of a relatively small galaxy, in a backstreet corner of an infinitely enormous universe, are so special as to be your god’s most prized creations?”

Banana

I’ve been so focused on trying to get Christians to listen that, if they were to do so, I’d be taken aback. I think the most important thing to tell them is to slow down in their judgments. When you find out your son is gay, take a deep breath and have a conversation with him before cutting off his allowance. When you find out your best friend is an atheist, stop and think back to what you know about that person before branding them immoral. When you find out that Barack Obama’s middle name is Hussein (Muslim), take a second to consider whether someone’s name has any bearing over who they are. We’ll get to the truth of Christianity later, for now let’s just avoid getting angry.

I want to have a genuine conversation with a Christian (or many) about why they think what they think without them getting defensive. I want to tell them why I think what I think. I want to ask if they genuinely think homosexuals are inferior, and if there’s any reason other than the Bible that they think that. I want to ask how they reconcile the fact that they don’t follow every moral example in the Bible. I want to ask how they reconcile their acceptance of modern science with their rejection (in some cases) of evolution, and if they don’t reject evolution, how they reconcile that with the Bible. I want to know how they think, and I want them to know how I think.

The biggest question, though, is why can’t the Bible be just another book? It’s got some redeeming literary qualities, and it has some parts that could use some proofreading. It’s got characters to emulate, and characters not to listen to. We can make moral examples of Frodo and Luke Skywalker and Harry Potter and Gatsby and the old man and the sea and any number of fictional characters, and we do not care that those books are not true. Why can’t the Bible be the same?

Really, all I want is one conversation where no one gets angry, no one gets defensive, no one spouts the usual talking points, and no one accuses me of being incapable of love just because I don’t believe in Jesus. Just one conversation.

Banana.

Have you ever contemplated that you might believe an entirely different deity if you lived in another country in another part of the world?

Banana.

OK, so this one time I got really mad at a Christian for saying that life is meaningless without believing in God. And she simply refused to listen to me after she said that.

Anyway, I would like to take her to a hillside a starry night and say:

“Look up and see that life has meaning even without belief”

Since I don’t live in America:

Pine-cone

I would tell them that I am not an atheist out of ignorance. It is not that I am unaware of their arguments, it’s that I have considered them at length and found them to be incorrect.

I would also tell them that my morality has actually become stronger since becoming an atheist as I now understand that there are no do-overs. There is no rescue and there is no divine forgiveness. I have to get things right the first time around.

Banana

Well said Sue. I tend to sum it up like this;

I am an atheist because no gods that I’ve heard of — the Christian one included — is plausible.

If any were more likely than not, in that instant I would not be an atheist.

Since I’ve investigated Christian claims the most, I would want Christians to know that their deity isn’t even in the running it is so implausible. Could there be one Christian that knows something that all the other Christians did not and change that judgment? Certainly. Just don’t bet on it.

One banana, two banana, three banana … four?

To Drew M.:
Funny you should mention that. My own laptop’s wallpaper is a faux motivational poster that has a screenshot from the movie and the caption “EXCELLENT – Be It To Each Other.”

That said…
I would speak to just one Christian in particular, if I knew that she would really hear me out, think about what I said, and not take it as a personal injury. I would tell her that the political rallies she attends are the very intersection of bigotry, hatred, and willful ignorance. I would tell her that her campaigning to repeal the same-sex marriage law that we briefly had in Maine shows that she hasn’t really listened to or thought about the life experiences of her own children. I might quote I know not whom, who said that you can be sure you made God in your image when he hates all the same people you do. I would remind her that her pastor, whom she takes to be the voice of God himself, is just a guy; and a hateful and spiteful and manipulative one at that, who abuses his position of power to spread his own agenda of intolerance and bigotry. I would observe that she seems to want so desperately to have a group of people tell her she’s a good person that she’s closed her eyes and ears to those of us who knew she was one all along.

Then I’d offer a banana.

I cannot claim to have read everything above, so forgive me if this is a duplicate, but:
I’d ask them if they are SURE of their belief in Christianity. I’d expect to hear that the are. Then, I’d ask what they’d believe if they had been born in a Muslim dominated country. If they said they’d still believe in Jesus, I’d not bother talking with them any more. If they admit that they’d likely believe in Islam, I’d ask how then can they be so sure about Christianity. If that’s not enough to get them to realize that they believe because they WANT to believe, then there’s nothing more I can do.

“Please understand that the people who don’t follow your religion aren’t obligated to follow it’s rules.”

Banana

I would ask them to contemplate the number of other religions that have existed in this world, each supplanted by another or just fading away, and the number that currently exist. Each adherent to one of those religions felt about it exactly the way you feel about yours. Christianity may very well have unique aspects (though probably not the ones you’re thinking about), but as a sociological phenomenon, it fits a pattern that other religions fit just as well. Stop thinking that your religion is breaking some sort of mold and is therefore the one TRUE religion.
My mother is upset about my not being a Christian, but I imagine that the mothers of people who turned away from Baal or Jupiter or Odin were just as upset. (And at least I’m not going to be killed for it!) This is not an unprecedented phenomenon.
And in conclusion, banana.

If they were listening in the first place, there’d be nothing more to say.

Look…the bible says not to judge, so don’t judge me because I’m an atheist. In fact, please don’t judge ANY of us; atheists aren’t evil people, cackling, maniacal criminal masterminds. We’re people who want to raise our families, live our lives, go out for chinese and stay out of peoples’ way.

True, we don’t believe in the things that you do. Most people don’t, really. But while we actively disagree with your beliefs, we don’t want to take them away from you, or from anybody; we just don’t want anyone trying to force their beliefs on us. We don’t want any one faith getting preferential treatment.

Listen. We can agree on this — we’re all of us here, now, in the flesh. Right? Let’s make the best of it. Lay off us, we’ll lay off of you, and then we can maybe get some chinese and work on making a difference while we’re here. Feed some kids, support a library, clean up a park. At least, we can lead by example by not clashing over our ideals.

My ideal is peace. I’m pretty sure you’ve heard that from someone before.

Banana, yo.

Give me the book!

I think it’s great that they had these conversations in churches. Really good idea. Wonder if it had any impact?

It must be very difficult for you, living in the twenty-first century and still believing in a middle ages god.Can I help you understand why there is no god and why it feels so good to be responsible for yourself once you’ve accepted that there is no big mean man in the sky?

Banana!

Hybrid – thumbs up for the Tim Minchin quote! XD

I’ve already said something, but as I live outside the US it doesn’t matter, anyway, so here’s something else that came to my mind:

“Imagine the most thoughtful, considerate, kind, moral person you possibly can. Whatever you consider to be ‘good’, he or she should personify it.

Now: allow me to change just one thing about this person, leaving everything else the same. Imagine that rather than being a follower of your religion, they have openly said they do not believe that your god exists.

Do you believe this person deserves to be sent to hell?

Why, or why not?”

Guava.

I am a practical person. I think we can only work with what we have. Right now we have a system of deeply ingrained religious belief that will by no means disappear overnight no matter how good atheists’ arguments are. I would like nothing more than to work with Christians in peace, to achieve mutual goals of helping other humans with compassion.

What I am NOT willing to live with is any group of people forcing me to live under their group’s chosen rules, on matters that (a) do not affect them, or (b) take away my equality as a person. As an example of the first point, I accept that you think homosexuality is not okay with God. Fine, then don’t engage in homosexual behavior. I do not serve your god, nor am I subject to his rules; therefore, you have no basis to prevent me from carrying on a contractual, same-sex relationship.

As for the second point, I have no problem with you praying to your God, so long as it’s done within a private organization or gathering, or silently within a public group. You don’t want to be forced to listen to other religion’s prayers and rituals. Why do insist on forcing others to listen to yours?

On that note, the main point I’d like to get across is that you and I have one very big common basis: treat others as you want to be treated. Jesus made a pretty big deal of this, and it’s one thing we can agree on. But when you eschew this command in favor of a bunch of arbitrary rules that even Jesus didn’t place emphasis on, I have zero respect for you.

I know that there are many Christians out there that DO live this command. These people include my friends, my family, and my significant other. Just because we don’t have the same belief about the existence of God, doesn’t mean we can’t get along or pursue similar goals on this planet.

But these are not the Christians who run for office. It takes a personality with a desire to control the lives and choices of others to get involved in politics. It’s the Christians who hate other groups, the Christians who want to force everyone else to obey their god and live by their interpretation of the Bible who run for office, make policy decisions for us all, and make Christianity as a whole look like a bunch of raving, evil, lunatics.

Please, do not mistake these people for your “brethren” just because they carry the name Christian. Compassionate Christians have a lot more in common with atheists than with fundamentalist evangelicals. The former generally wish to do live in harmony with their fellow humans; the latter generally wish to dominate their fellow humans. Which group sounds more Christlike?

Please, do not vote for or support anyone who wishes to supress freedom of choice, expression, or religion, even if their religious views are similar to yours. That hurts all of us.

Banana

Though I would understand if this never got put up here, as this is a place for like-minded people, I would like to say that I, a Christian, am listening, and do understand. I often struggle with the difficult things in the bible, and I love listening to these replies. So you are reaching one of us :0)

Banana

I’d have to ask them “if you are a ‘Christian’ why don’t you follow the teachings of Christ? Christ Jesus taught us to love others and to love them as you would love yourself; Christ was not judgmental and surrounded himself with people that others would condemn. Why don’t you?”.

Most atheists I know have read the Bible (that’s why they’re atheists). Have you? the whole thing with all the begats and ugly stories? Have you read any other mythologies? Do you allow yourself to doubt? Do you fear that if you do, precious afterlife rewards would be withheld and torture would ensue? If given proof, I would believe in your god. If given proof would you give up your faith? What, if true, would falsify your claims of an omnipotent god that you’d accept?
Banana

Don’t belittle Christianity’s problems by saying it’s only the impression of outsiders that’s the problem.

159 comments?! I’m impressed. Because of Hemants raging anti-foreigner bigotry (kidding!) I can’t opt for the bvd, but I’ll give it a go anyway.

Key is that the Christian would listen, and not merely dismiss the statement because it challenges their worldview.

I would ask them to consider taking a course on world religions, especially one that delves into the history of the religions. I think little could be a better cure for theism or at least for the more unpleasant and judgemental version of theism than frontally confronting the undeniable human origins of religions and realizing that your own borrows from older religions and is rife with contradictions and edits.

Barring that I’d ask them to take the time to get to know, really know, people of other faiths and especially of no faith and then ask themselves if they really believe such people deserve eternity of torture for their beliefs.

How can you push your subjective beliefs onto somebody about something that cannot ever be proven objectively? How can you say that what you believe is 100% Truth when they are based on your own interpretation of what ‘true’ means? How do you know you’re not Schizophrenic and everything is just a figment of your imagination? Since you can’t prove the existence of a pineapple to me, why do you slam others when they say they don’t believe in God?

And lastly, do you still think I am a Christian even though I debate with religious folks about the fallacies found in their answers to those questions?

Banana.

I’d tell the Christians the same thing I would tell the atheists, or the believers in any other faith including my own. Please remember that the other side believes in their beliefs just as deeply, and profoundly and with no better then reason then you believe in yours.

Then we’d go out for banana splits, my treat.

If Christians would listen, I would say:

Please realize being a member of one particular religion is not a prerequisite for morality. Just look around you. You probably have coworkers, neighbors, and fellow classmates who are members of different faiths and no faith. They are regular people, just trying to live their lives. If you want to be pro-family, then don’t encourage people to be hateful towards family members and friends who convert or deconvert away from Christianity.

Before deciding to support a religious law or Christian organization, please imagine yourself in the other person’s position. Imagine that you’re living in a country where Christians are the minority and where another religious group is doing a lot of the same things which some Christians are doing. Imagine that your kids are going to a school where another religion’s creation story is being taught as science, that your tax money is going to organizations that discriminate against you, and that there are organizations doing biased fake science research to “prove” that discrimination against you is okay. Would you be okay with that? If not, then don’t support it when your religion does it to other people.

Lastly, on a more personal note, don’t assume that I only dislike religion because I’m from a Muslim family and that I would change my mind if I learned about Christianity. I actually considered Christianity and found that I disagree with it as well. I’m an atheist because I don’t see evidence for God; if I saw the evidence, I would believe in God.

Banana.

If you thought Christians would listen, what would you say to them?

Make me coffee and biscuits or I’ll convert you to atheism with my Darwinian raygun!

Perhaps I’m overly antagonistic towards this enterprise, but that looks and sounds like an absolutely awful DVB (as they call it).

I would try to get them to understand that their faith is not what they think it is. That their faith is in the people who told them about about God rather than actually in God. They have faith that these people were telling the truth; their faith is in the people.

Banana.

I would ask them how they would feel if they found out, for certain, that there was no God. Would they be sad at the loss of eternal life? Relieved that their loved ones wouldn’t go to hell? Also, how would their views on issues like homosexuality and euthanasia change? How would they want to live the rest of their life, knowing that we’re not guarded by a supernatural protector?

Banana

Why?

Aren’t you glad I didn’t say…

banana!

Interesting. Do a lot of people think that non-Christians are non-Christians because Christians are bad at PR?

My reasons for not being a Christian are not related to how friendly or not other Christians are. I’m not a Christian for exactly the same reasons I’m not a Zoroastrian.

If a book like this can get even one fire’n’brimstone fundy to tone it down a notch and talk like a grownup, then it’ll be a success. But I think there’s a risk a lot of Christians will try to reverse-engineer it into a sales pitch. That’s not going to address any of the many, many fundamental problems I have with all Christians

But if I’m in the minority, and there are a lot of non-believers out there who left the church because of the quality of churchgoer, then maybe books like this will make their lives better, which is good.

Having said all that: banana 🙂

I would tell them about all the pain and suffering their bigoted, hateful religion has caused in the lives of my gay and lesbian friends.

I would tell them about all the pain and suffering their bigoted, hateful religion has caused in the life of my gay self.

I would tell them about children whose families deny them medical care in favor of letting Jesus take care of it, and how he never does. I would point out that not one single amputee has ever been healed by Jesus.

I would point out in the bible where Jesus says they should only pray quietly in private where no one can hear them, and that every time they pray in church or in public they are violating the instructions of their alleged savior.

I would point out that if their church has an american flag in the sanctuary, they are violating the bible’s prohibition against idolatry, and also that they must be incredibly self centered to think that a being that allegedly created the universe would favor one nation over another.

I wold explain that threatening me with hell is as effective as threatening me with sending me to munchkinland, as I have equal levels of belief in both.

I would point out that every time they try to tell me about their religion over my objections that I’ve heard it all before and insist that if I don’t believe in it I just don’t understand it, they are grievously insulting me, as I’m very well educated about their religion, possibly more so than they are, and that with an IQ of 170 I am no fool.

I would tell them about the time I lost my job and my home and faced imminent homelessness, how the christians in my life all said “oh dear what a shame,” and how the homosexual atheists in my life said nothing but fed, clothed, and housed me until I got a job and put together enough money to get a new home.

I would tell them about how abusive it is to threaten a child with hell, and that if they love their children they will never attempt to indoctrinate them into such horrifying beliefs.

I would tell them that any accusations they may make that I hate christians would make my friends the three methodist ministers, the southern baptist minister, the orthodox priest, and the conservative rabbi laugh at them.

I would tell them that any accusations they may make that I hate god would make me laugh at them, because it would be like accusing me of hating Smurfs; I can not hate things I don’t believe exist.

I would point out to them that we could be friends if they treat me with the same respect with which I treat them – to let me live my life as I want, not fight my civil rights, and to accept any relationship I may have as valid – but that if they insist on fighting my civil rights or treating me as a second class person, I will fight them tooth and nail, and they risk alienating me to the point where I may decide to actively work toward an end to christianity rather than passively treating it as a mere irritant.

Banana na (bop bee dee beep eep!)

My dear Wife,

After decades of church worship, attendance, and tithes I desired to learn the truth. After a year of intense study I have found what I sought. I am sad that you are uninterested in understanding my struggles, my fears and my joys.

Love always,
Your husband, whom you probably think is Bananas.

I would tell them to stop being afraid.

Banana

I would probably tell them the same things I always try to tell them, but they never hear me:

1) I’m not trying to destroy your religion or prevent you from believing as you wish. I just don’t want your religion forced upon me. I also don’t hate people because of their religion. I try to find the good in everyone and I find the world hate to be distasteful.

2)Being an atheist does not mean I don’t understand your religion or beliefs. It does not mean I have “lost” my faith/way or that I’m somehow a lesser person because I don’t share your belief. I am happier now that I ever was while growing up in a Christian home.

3)Atheism is not a belief system and it is not simply the lack of a belief system. Atheism is the state you reach when you develop a better understanding of the truth behind religions and then move beyond belief in the supernatural and religion to the truth. Being an atheist means you finally accept the real world for what it is and do not require magic and superstition to make life worth living.

4) I don’t eat babies! Unless they are marinated overnight and then cooked slowly on a charcoal grill 😉

I’d be torn between asking them to read the Bible with a critical eye (maybe read it with them!) and explaining the mind-brain dualism fallacy. After all, what difference does it make if there’s a god if there’s no afterlife? Banana, please.

Please don’t mix up my lack of respect or love towards Christianity as a lack of those things towards Christians.
Because, while I despise the institution, I cherish many individuals who belong to it.

Banana.

i would ask them what it means to be good? why do they think they have the answer to good? do they think they’re good? why did Jesus really come to earth?

If bananas were designed by God for us, why is my wife deathly allergic to them? She’s allergic to lots of raw fruits, for that matter, but bananas are bad whether they’re cooked or raw.

Fortunately, I don’t like the taste of them much anyway. Ugh, banana.

If they would actually listen, there wouldn’t be the need to ask them anything. They would have realized already that there is a world outside their religion that needs to be respected.

I would like to ask some of my religious friends if they could describe their lives without god. That is, how would their lives be assuming there is no god.

Stop being so hypocritical!

Banana

1) Do you have any idea how condescending, irritating, and futile it is to proselytize to non-Christians? We’re willing to respect your beliefs, so why do you refuse to respect ours?

2) Why do you have such a problem accepting the full humanity of women, LGBT people, and non-Christians? Why do you relegate us to second class status when we are every bit as human as you?

Bananarama

And in a more militantly atheist mood, I would want them to grasp 1) that proselytising is intrinsic to Christianity, that is if their Good News is really, & truly so important; 2) when proselytisers bear an uncanny resemblance to used car salesmen: they are invested socially, at least, in making a sale: if they are a minister, their livelihood depends on the number of completed sales (= growing the flock) and are they really going to do anything that might cost them friendships (long-term & short-term)? Are they willing to do things that would almost certainly adversely impact their social life? And why should I put myself at risk to change my beliefs & opinions when there is very little reason to believe that Christians will? This inequality speaks strongly of bad faith on their part.

I would want them to see that it is perfectly reasonable to have serious qualms about the equation of Christianity = Truth.

If I knew Christians would listen, I would tell them that we aren’t all that different. We care about each other. We don’t want to inflict pain. We have fundamental human traits that they may attribute to a deity, but we don’t. We all wish to be moral.

Don’t be a dick.

Reject hatred and bigotry always – even when defended by a book, a person, or an organization.

Banana

Consider for a moment all those people you are pleased to welcome into the fold: ex-Muslims, ex-atheists, ex-Mormons, ex-Buddhists, ex-Hindus, ex-pagans, etc. You take them seriously when they tell you about the challenges they faced in their old religions or ways of life and are strengthened in your faith that God brought them to the truth–to the way you think, that is. You twist yourselves into pretzels in the meantime trying to explain away the existence of ex-Christians. We’re all around you, and you cannot bring yourselves to listen to our Christian horror stories or even simple, respectful doubts for fear you would have to take them seriously and challenge your beliefs. I know because I have been there. It’s not just casual believers who are walking away and you do yourselves a disservice to dismiss them as such and put your heads in the sand.

Sit down, play some soft music, nibble a banana, and let it sink in.

Also, if you are still listening, I’d like to say that I understand how difficult it is to try to live up to the teachings of Christ and to make the best sense you can out of some really confusing biblical passages. I know how hard you are on yourselves when you inevitably fail and I still respect you for trying. I know that many of you get as much harsh treatment from your fellow believers as any of you shows to outsiders, and genuinely want to change the negative parts of church participation. I hope you succeed.

As a “doubting Thomas”, I would ask a Christian:

Why do you worship a zombie named Jesus?’

How does believing there are three personalities in God’s head make you a better person?

Why do you want to be a zombie on Earth after life in heaven?

Why hasn’t Jesus come back yet when he said “soon” according to your scriptures and, hence, delayed the writing of said scriptures?

Why did your man-god only have three years to proclaim the “word of god” from his father god when he lived to 33 or 54 depending on your early Church Fathers?

Why did this man-god die before two lowly humans on the cross?

I have more, but you catch my drift…

Banana

This might be too late but here is mine none the less.

When I look up into the sky, I see god. Not the God you are used to, but the creating force of the Universe. When I drive my car early in the morning with my ten month old in tow, I see god in the mackeral clouds speckled along the sun rise. I see god in the face of my daughter as each individual tooth breaks through the sensitive skin of her gums. I see god in the scab that heals over my paper cut.

Just because you’re god has a consciousness, does not mean mine is any less amazing. To wake up in the middle of the night and to understand I am alive because of random, biological events is just as amazing, if not more than the idea of being formed out of clay or a rib. To understand that I have a consciousness, and that a mere 28 years ago I did not, sends the chills of wonder up my spine.

The world will continue after I am gone and I will not be here or anywhere else to witness it but this does not make me sad. Every little piece of me will form another body, another blade of grass or another breath of fresh air. To know that people will continue to have children and continue to laugh and sing and cry and love — that is enough for me. Eventually my turn will be over, and anothers will come. It is my job not to be greedy. I am grateful that I am part of this tiny, lonely planet in the middle of a huge ocean of uncertainty. How lucky am I to even be writing this to you? I don’t need God to give me purpose. My purpose is to enjoy this wonderful, random gift of consciousness. To enjoy every waking moment and to enjoy the people around me. I look at the world without a God and I see something so unique, so amazing and so awe inspiring that my heart jumps in my chest and I feel so large and so small all in the same breath. My life without God is not empty, it’s full of adventure and questions begging to be answered and I wouldn’t want it any other way.

Banana hammock 😉

neosnowqueen @ July 7th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

>Winnar<

As a Christ follower, I apologize. For the times you were:

*accused of being stupid or uneducated

*assumed to have been abused or otherwise tainted against Christianity

*the recipient of violent and ignorant acts which were perpetrated against you wrongfully in the alleged name of Christ
*abandoned by family members, friends or loved ones

Sometimes people are foolish – no matter their belief system.

I will listen. As long as there remains a mutual respect of each others beliefs. I won’t bash your atheism, please don’t bash my Christianity.

Remember, when you label all Christians as hateful, judgmental and unwilling to listen, you’ve done the very thing you accuse us of…

I sure would like to view/read this DVB – with or without the banana.

I would like to ask christians to let others live their own lives. To be more open minded and quit shoving religion down our throats. Banana

Unexpected Commenter, if you are effective in moderating the worst impulses of your fellow Christians — even if you share little with them beyond a belief in Christ — then I can ask no more of you. The key word, though, is effective.

I do not ask you, though, to address the excesses of your fellow theists who are not Christians. Your responsibility for religious excesses stops at your own chosen religion.

If enough Christians would step up, I would not mention a thing about Christianity and may even support the nobler impulses offered by various Christians.

I, for one, appreciate the opportunity given to express what I’d like to communicate to Christians willing to listen. My concern with such a question and a forum to respond is that my reactionary comments would come off as judgmental and critical. Two things that are constantly labeled on people of faith and I’d prefer not to be hypocritical.
The issue isn’t what you would say to Christians if they were willing to listen but in fact should be to get these Christians or any one who believes in faith or religion to listen to themselves on why they believe what they believe. It’s amazing the results I get from conversing with people regarding religion. When they speak aloud what they’re thoughts, ideas and beliefs are, they tend to have a moment; one moment where they catch themselves thinking “wow, did I just say that” or “do I really believe that”?

I feel that to believe in a religion is to choose to reject reason (at times). I feel people do so based on tradition or history, pressure or simply programmed to repeat and remember what’s been told to them many times. As an adult, speaking openly & candidly to another adult who is giving THEM the opportunity to discuss what & why they believe in what they believe, more is gained on what they are hearing from their own mouths than what I could ever say to them.
My suggestion to everone here is giving people of faith the opportunity to hear themselves state what & why they believe and simply listen and ask questions. By doing so in a respectful, open-minded way, I feel more & more people will see for themselves that old ideals and fantasies might not be factual at all.
For what’s it worth, I’d like to end by saying : BANANA

Thank you!

Hi, I am a Christian and I also realize that you must have a great faith in order to live your life stating there is no God or gods. I am sure that you have already picked out the winners of the book, however, I would love to know more about the book and would actually read it.
And regardless of what many Atheists think not all Christians hate them, nor do we think they should convert.
To Bailey: Be happy that your sister has embraced a faith in something. You may not agree with it, but if you truly want her to be happy, then you need to be happy for her and show her support as I am sure she does for you.

If a Christian would listen, I would ask them if they think Jesus would be happy or sad to see how some of them have acted towards their fellow human beings. I know not every Christian is the same (though unsurprisingly, the ones that have done the most damage are sure they don’t fall in this category), but the most I’ve encountered seem to be extremely nice up until the point they find out you’re atheist. All religions have some good ideas but humans twist them so much. Honestly, I want to be friends with people and like everyone (my closest friends are of all religions) but it’s kinda hard when you get blocked out after you get asked “where do you go to church?” No matter how tactful I am in answering, most of the time I feel like I’m judged despite the forced smile I’m getting. Well, I guess this wasn’t as bad when I lived outside of Texas…

I am usually a peace keeper so I don’t want to provoke anyone but I am curious if Christians (or any other group) ever critically examine their religion. Just how is it more accurate than other faiths/denominations? And no one worships Zeus anymore, so will the idea of Jesus be any different in 5000 years? It seems most of the more aggressive Christians I’ve met are rather obviously uneducated in religions and cultures outside of theirs. They’re just sure you’re going to this place called hell, which to me doesn’t sound like somewhere a gracious god would send his creations to. I feel like most are afraid to critically examine their ideas (or perhaps their parents’ ideas) because they might end up realizing some faults to religion and be shunned by the rest of their religious community that they grew up with. It’s sad, and I’m just tired of all the negative feelings towards anyone really, religious or not. I just hope Christians will let go of the whole “holier-than-thou” and give me – and anyone else – the same respect I give them.

Banana.

I would say that three things.
1. The bible contains around 456 contradictions. If you don’t believe me, google it yourself, get out the word and begin to study. It is true. For example, Paul himself gives three different accounts of his converstion to Christianity in the new testament.

ACTS 9:7 Those present at Paul’s conversion heard the voice but saw no one. Then later, in ACTS 22:9 it states that those present saw a light but did not hear a voice. (So which was it, did they hear the voice or see the light? Probably never saw this, eh?)

ACTS 9:7 Those present at Paul’s conversion stood. Then later in ACTS 26:14 those present fell to the ground. (So did they fall or were they standing?)

ACTS 9:19-28 Shortly after his conversion, Paul went to Damascus, then Jerusalem where he was introduced to the Apostles by Barnabas, and there spent some time with them. But in GALATIONS 1:15-20 He made the trip to Jerusalem three years later after the conversion, then saw only Peter and James. (Which was it. Did he meet the apostles shortly after the conversion or three years later?)

This is one example of MANY exaples of contraditions I found during my personal study. Look at when Moses spends 40 years in the desert and passes by the descendants of Esau. One scripture tells you the group of people let Moses pass by peacefully and another tells them to get away otherwise they will take up arms. If the bible is the infallible word of God, it would not contain so many mistakes. Don’t be brain washed by what people have told you for so long, do your own study and see for yourself. It was the most eye opening experince for me.

2. Using common sense, can you really say that a God would dam someone to eternal hell if they didn’t accept Jesus and convert? Think about it for a moment… Christians tell me that God gives a person time, chances, ect. But using common sense, there would be a lot of people who would be in hell. I just can’t buy this. I can’t see how one God would do that to people. However, this philosophy would be great to control the public into entering into one belief system. More control for organized religions.

3. Read the book, Conversations with God, with an open mind. It is the closest thing to religion that makes sense and brings things into the right perspective.

Banana

As a person raised by a mother who told me I was an Atheist, explaining why at every given chance. Ultimately deciding I have faith, but not calling myself a christian or any other denominational title. I can look over a Bible in its varying forms and take it for the allegory it is. Written and translated (often incorrectly) by questionable people over centuries. Acknowledging sections of its content to be somewhat disturbing but having the common sense not to forget how times have evolved (yes I used the word ‘evolved’) and said interpretations left stale and misused.
Unfortunately the sad thing is more how many people like to lump all people who have faith in anything, into one basket and purely make umbrella statements about them to this end.

I also have faith in the justice system, but know it is fallible and often abused. I have faith in the medical field but know that what often can be proven successful to cure or aid, has just as often been wrong depending on the unique individual it has tried to service.

People are ‘unique’ and entitled to believe whatever hopefully makes them decent to those around them. The whole point being belief. As you believe there is no such thing as a God by any name or form, not every person believing the opposite is desperate to call you on that. Some people are actually just comfortable in their faith and have enough sensible capacity to know what is not rightly conveyed in written form and literal interpretation, will harm or effect others to their detriment.
The very same people find it unnecessary to go around shoving their belief system down anyone’s throats and don’t feel they are hard done to victims just because others may disagree.
The urgent desire for some to cause doubt in anyone’s life must be time consuming (that is aimed at fundamentalist people of every faith and Atheists, who just fester in the urgency to prove that people cannot have a thought process that might diverge from their one track “you are wrong and I am right because my science or my Bible/or book of guidance, say so”).

Am so glad I came across this blog, snack banana time. Cheap at half the price.