iPhone Apps for Christian/Atheist Debates

The app only has one response/suggestion:

“Keep repeating that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were all atheists and ignore everything the atheist says.”

Funny, I pictured the same thing when the Talk.Origins app came out, just the other way around.

It’s easy. Get the app, the write another with the pre-canned answers. Saves repeating the same things over and over again.

I take offense at the implication the the iPhone freezes often and is full of overcomplicated software.

If you need an app for debating, then you probably shouldn’t be debating in the first place.

I don’t see it getting worse. Most of my debate time is pretty much spent on what feels like canned lines. “New Atheists are aggressive” “atheism is also just a faith” “hitler was an atheist” “evolution is also just a theory” “sam harris wants to bomb muslims”.

I originally came here to make the same comment about not hearing these criticisms about the Creationist Claims app … but to Hemant’s credit… I’ve found that at least in my case, I read the entries in that app just for fun and out of curiosity, and I wouldn’t be surprised if atheists are a bit more likely to read through the suggestions ahead of time rather than try to whip out their iPod/iPhone mid-argument. 😉

Hitch, but Harris DOES want to bomb Muslims.

He even makes a ratonale for pre-emptive nuclear war in TEOF.

Its there dude, you can’t deny it.

Seth, first hit “sam harris nuclear” on google:

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/response-to-controversy2/

Yes he discusses a hypothetical situation.

Let me quote his conclusion:

“men who are every bit as zealous to die as the nineteen hijackers may one day get their hands on long-range nuclear weaponry. The Muslim world in particular must anticipate this possibility and find some way to prevent it.”

No, Sam Harris does NOT want to bomb Muslims. I think it’s fair to say that to claim that he does might constitute slander in some legal systems.

This is the problem. People pull quotes out of context, radicalize them to then give a certain false, aggressive, negative view of the person who discusses a difficult topic.

In fact what he does do is invite the Muslim world to participate in preventing that radicals with suicidal fantasies and the desire to get back at the “colonial west” gets their hands on nuclear weapons.

What a monster indeed… not. Same quote mining is routinely pulled on Hitchens too.

@Seth If I’m correct the Treaty of Tripoli not only laid out the US’s control over the entire Western Hemisphere for the next century but it is one of the founding documents for our current existence as a world superpower. And while the treaty was made with a group of pirate it was really directed at the British forces that were backing the group in an attempt to undermine the new US government while our armed forces and navy were still being established.

The support of the treaty was then backed up further by the War of 1812 when the nation showed that it was effectively able to defend its borders.

So a treaty…the treaty of Tripoli…was made with some pirates

Nice ad hominem. It doesn’t matter who the treaty was made with; all that matters it that it was ratified by the US government. No matter how much you dislike (or seem to think others should dislike) one of the parties, it is every bit as authoritative and binding as any other treaty.

by the particular powers in control at the time

FFS… yes, the “particular powers in control at the time,” otherwise known as the US government, all of whom were actually alive at the time of our nation’s founding, and some of whom (including then-president John Adams) were actual founding fathers, who, I’m willing to wager, would have had a slightly more informed understanding of their own intentions than you seem to.

and that is supposed to tell us all about our theistic history?

In that our founding was not “theistic,” absolutely.

That is frigging desperate, dudes!

Citing compelling historical fact is desperate? Riiiiight….

Not to say the US of A was founded as a Christian nation,

Great, so you acknowledge this? Why then are you taking issue with the supporting evidence?

but it sure was not founded as an officially Atheistic State as many of the Commie Nations were and are.

This is relevant… how?

Hitch, but Harris DOES want to bomb Muslims.

Hitch duly smacks you around above for this bit of stupidity/dishonesty.

@Melanie
Let’s see, where to start.
“So-called Christians” Are so called because that’s what they call themselves. Religion isn’t like a single country club where you have to actually pay dues to a specific group. You can make your own and recruit people to it and call it nearly exactly the same thing. there is no one who is recognized by everyone who calls themselves Christian as able to kick people out of “the club”.

You’re a Christian. Good for you. That doesn’t go against my beliefs, unless you use that status as an excuse to subjugate women, anyone LGBT, or people of other races and religions, or support someone who does. Denying medical attention to children is also done by one group of Christians, and because they do so because of what their leaders tell them, who justify it by reading from Christian mythology, they are by definition Christian.

Not all Christians are hypocritical? Many use Old Testament verses to justify their cruelty towards gay people, yet completely ignore surrounding verses demanding the murder of non-virgin brides, people who eat shellfish, and people who shave. Often when confronted about this, they use special pleading, saying there’s some sort of secret way that some parts are literal and others are metaphorical (read: okay to ignore), but never give an objective way to do this.
If you believe the story of Moses, why don’t you worship the Gods of Egypt as well? They apparently could turn staffs into snakes just like the Judaic god, he just copied them and made his bigger. The first commandment doesn’t forbid it, just saying he has priority. As an aside, every single ‘miracle’ in the bible looks like a parlor trick. Curing one guy’s blindness? MIRACLE! Curing blindness for everyone who will ever live? Too much work!

Of course not all Christians are unintelligent, there’s a small minority of scientists who subscribe to Christianity. However, there’s a direct inverse correlation between IQ and religiousness. Any remote advantage Religion has given society in the last five millenniums pales compared to what the scientific method has done in a tenth of that time. Religion is about selectively ignoring your intelligence. If you talk to god that’s normal. If god responds, telling you to invade a country for being sinful, that’s normal. If god responds, telling you to kill your neighbor for the same reason, that’s crazy. The former gets re-elected, the latter gets locked up.

You want to apologize for what someone else did? How curious, considering in your wonderful book, the opposite happens, first all of humanity being “punished” for something Adam and Eve did, then Christ dying somehow stopped this punishment. Does your apology absolve them from their words of hate? What about when they used more than words, torturing non-christians to death in the crusades, killing gay people and transexuals on a nearly daily basis. Your apology for a group of people you don’t even consider to be “True Christians” rings hollow.

Last time I checked, we all have the right to believe any way we want to! As long as it does not hurt our fellow man, it’s is our right!!

That’s what I’d like, but let’s see how the scoreboard really stands. Atheists and non-religious in the military: Harassed freely with no repercussions. Gays who even just work with the military: Fired with no recourse for violating DADT, even if it was someone else who outed them. Slavery: Justified with the bible for centuries before finally being outlawed. Women’s Rights: Again, only recently allowed the right to vote, and even now in many facets of societies all over the world, females are a second class citizen. And so on and so on. I agree that we are all allowed to our own beliefs. What we aren’t allowed to do is force those beliefs on others, which nearly EVERY religion on earth demands in varying levels of extremes, from indoctrinating children before they have the self-awareness to question the world around them, to killing those who don’t convert.

I believe in LOVE and FORGIVENESS!!

Really? That’s wonderful. Keep that thought in mind, and read the bible again. Notice everything in there that doesn’t advocate love and forgiveness, and seriously ask yourself if you think you need such an inciter of war and genocide in your life, when your moral compass clearly points elsewhere.

Lovely chats going on. I wonder if they are using the app.

“Atheists and non-religious in the military: Harassed freely with no repercussions”

That’s too extreme. The military has made strides in recent years to be more accepting of atheists and other faiths. There are atheists groups and even Wiccans at the military academies now. In the PBS documentary “Carrier”, they briefly show a group of Wiccans and a chaplain mentions them.

They have also taken steps against proselytizing at official functions. The military may not always be accepting of atheists, but they recognize that chaplains can’t be allowed to aggressively push their particular brand of Christianity on everyone either.

The disturbing thing is that the biggest group of chaplains are Southern Baptists. But by definition, military chaplains are required to provide services and help to anyone. Some take that seriously, some not.

It’s not perfect, but it’s not so black and white either.

@ Melanie Maloy

What are you apologizing for?? I don’t see anything in the context of this discussion that warrants an apology. Please don’t waste your time, you can see from Catinthewall’s comments that your apology was NOT accepted…

Matthew 7:6 Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Ah, making a point by quoting Bible verses.

Is there an app for that?

In regards to the app, I think it’s fair. I have no trouble understanding what I believe, but I have difficulty recalling information for a verbal debate. If I have access to written material I am able to better formulate my arguement.

What would not work, is if the party using the app considered herself the winner because the other side wasn’t able to articulate a worthwhile response. The other side should have fair time to think or do research themselves.

After all, the point of the argument isn’t to win–it’s to present information for examination in the light of the other person’s information. But I think we often forget that.

@Melanie, although I disagree with the way some have decided to respond to you I see where they are coming from. Christian apologies seem hollow and there always seems to be an agenda behind it. The idea is that you think we don’t accept your beliefs because of the actions of it’s followers; so you come and ‘act’ nice in hope that it might get us to change our minds. If this is the case (and I’m not accusing you) then don’t bother.

Most people here don’t believe because of lack of evidence; come with evidence, not pleasantries. I’m always standoffish when it comes to religious people being extra nice; like a car salesman trying to sell you something.

I’m not going to apologize for the others actions because I am not them and they are not me; I have no obligation to as their actions were their own and not based on some tenet in an archaic book.

Nothing spells critical/independent thinking like following a list!